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Thread: ESFj Uncovered (description for ESEs)

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    Default ESFj Uncovered (description for ESEs)

    I should preface this description with some of my background with ESFjs, and my experience with socionics.

    I came across jungian type theory about 7 years ago in college. My initial introduction came through Myers-Briggs theory and Keirsey, which upon discovering socionics was quickly replaced. Since then I've tried to read about every article and book concerning thype theory that I could find, poor english online translations of russian articles included. This along with my own intellectual pursuits in understanding the various models and theories in existence has given me a fairly solid understanding of the socionics model, and how it applies to our everday personalities. As I am not the most fluid writer (I tend to be a little long winded), I'm going to break down what I feel to be the various functions and how they are often introduced to the outside, often leaving a negative impression on others. I lived with a female ESFj for a year in college who I was not romantically involved with (aside from a couple of weak moments). I also have worked with a couple and have seen them in action in an environment for which they are probably not best suited. Hopefully this article will be mostly accurate as well as thought provoking concerning the socionics ESFj type. (I should also mention that my own type is INTj).

    Fe (Extraverted Feeling - Conscious) -
    This is the ESFj's (ESE) dominant psychological function, and is very hard to miss, even by the most casual of observers. Their youthful enthusiasm for even the most mundane and trivial can give the appearance to others of superficiality and naivete. However, it should be said that their enthusiasm does not stop at the superficial, but rather extends to almost anything that attracts them. With this in mind, it could be said that ESFjs fall in love more easily, and more often, than any other type as they often confuse their enthusiasm for a new person as love. This in conjunction with their active social life can often give rise to an extensive assortment of lovers, particularly in males. Their success stems from the ESFj's apparent trustworthiness and ability to demonstrate strong, genuinely positive feelings towards relative strangers. These qualities make them excellent salespeople, public relations managers, and others dealing with people on a regular basis.

    Their strong emotions can also run the ESFj into trouble, as they have difficulty in being objective about those they love. They easily overlook the faults of others, giving their feelings towards others the final say in their actions concerning them. They live to love, and are therefore prone to keeping bad relationships much longer than would be otherwise healthy. The ESFj is willing to work hard at any relationship, no matter how much emotional pain they must endure. (I should add that I observed very closely the friendship between an ESFj and an INTp (conflicting types), and it was amazing at how long this friendship endured, despite the extreme degree of hostility that defined much of their relationship. I have also observed this between an ESFj and an ENTj (super-ego), although not as hostile, nevertheless an objectively poor relationship kept alive by the efforts of the ESFj).

    Si (Introverted Sensing - Conscious) -
    This is the ESFj's creative function, and is observed more intermittently due to the second function's spontaneous nature. It takes many forms, but it is particularly noticeable in their physical interactions with others. They are very sensuous and earthly in their physical interactions, which also adds to their ability to seduce others quickly. They have excellent aesthetic taste, but their tastes are not usually mainstream, and they know well what works for them as individuals. One can observe two extremes in ESFjs when it comes to their second function in regards to their sexuality. They are either very promiscuous, liking to share their creative sensual gifts with many (for their own pleasure as well, it should be added), or almost frigid, stemming from a lack of experience in this realm, and therefore creating a fear of incompetent performance. This can become a very painful issue in their lives, as sex is extremely important, and they strive to be competent in this area because they recognize it as a potential strength unrealized. However, there is also the pain that more developed ESFjs experience when trying to balance the spiritual world and the guilt that comes with religion in this area of life, causing the ESFj to view themselves with contempt for their own perceived lack of sexual-control. It is not until they find someone they can be monogomous with that this pain starts to subside. It should be added that this conflict is not gender specific, although many societies tend to make it more unacceptable for a female to act like this, making the struggle between Si-Ni generally more painful (and noticeable) in women. In extreme cases, the ESFj can become so sexually dissatisfied that they will attempt relationships with anyone, regardless of the relationship dynamic, in order to satisfy this urge, causing more conservative types, like their dual (INTj), to view them with contempt.

    Te (Extraverted Thinking - Conscious) -
    The ESFj's third function is particularly noticeable in a business environment, where they are forced to use this more often than their first. As "Te" is associated with raw knowledge and the accumulation of facts and figures, ESFjs therefore love to excercise what knowledge they have. However, as the third function is a weak function, and is underdeveloped at the expense of the first, ESFjs have a limited capacity for knowledge in comparison to types with "Te" as a dominant function (intelligence level being equal), making them insecure about their intelligence. Exceptionally intelligent ESFjs can suprise you with their knowledge of many different subjects, and will not hesitate to demonstrate this. However, even the smartest of ESFjs has difficulty in applying this knowledge, which can cause them problems in a situation in which this is consistently required. Unless an ESFj has learned how to apply a certain type of knowledge before, they have great difficulty in figuring out how to apply it on their own. More developed ESFjs can have a great business sense developed from experience, and they are able to remember procedures very well. However, they will never be able to put their feelings aside completely in a business situation, making them prone to poor judgement where objectivity is required. Their ego concerning this function is also easily bruised, causing them to be obstinant and unreasonable when their ideas are not utilized or followed.

    Ni (Introverted Intuition - Conscious) -
    The ESFj's fourth and weakest conscious function is their ability to find spiritual harmony within themselves. It also contributes to a horrid sense of time, making them late for everything on a regular basis. They especially struggle with religious principles, which is something they are constantly adopting and abandoning throughout their lives. Reconciling the needs of the physical with need for internal spiritual balance and principles, causes much pain as mentioned earlier, and ESFjs will either be extremely religious, or extremely aetheistic. Their ability to delve into the realm of the abstract is very limited, which causes them to search externally for a way to satisfy this function's needs. They will adpot many different principles at once, and are able to maintain an extremely principled lifestyle for a time. However, eventually they grow weary and in cases where an ESFj lived an extremely rigid and non-physical lifestyle, they will revert to an overly hedonistic one in order to balance themselves psychologically. Listening to an ESFj speak about their spirituality and principles can be somewhat frightening due to the hypocritical and primitive nature of their "Ni".

    Ti (Introverted Thinking - Unconscious) -
    For an ESFj, theoretical logic is extremely fascinating. They love listening to reason and logic, and they will seek out people and situations in which they can experience others who provide this well. Their own abilities here are very limited, and they have a difficult, if not impossible time understanding things on their own, although they are quite capable of reaching an understanding given the right teacher and enough time. They are insecure about their own understanding of complex issues, and are appreciative of those that are willing to take the time to simplify them. They are very attracted to types with this as a strength, although it can run them into trouble, as they fall easily for ISTjs and ESTps, who are not a good match for them. They willingly adopt the ideas and theories of others, which can make them susceptible to bad ideas and bogus theories. However, they somehow know if something is logical or not, and are able to extricate themselves from people who promote ideas that are not good for them.

    Ne (Extraverted Intution - Unconscious) -
    The ESFj's weakest unconscious function is where they are most vulnerable, and one can easily see this when they are in a situation of negative potential. They always try to look on the brightside, and will always hope for the best, regardless of what others may tell them. This makes them poor at predicting the outcome of events, which can run them into bad situations, especially romantically. Their desire to be perfect stems from this function, and one only need ask an ESFj to know that this is most definitely their hidden agenda. In the case of young ESFjs, their lack of experience here will cause behavior that will appear to be self-destructive and detrimental to their desires for a "perfect" life. Obsessing over others, fantisizing about relationships that can never be, and especially ignoring reality, all stem from this function, and in the worst cases, can have long term negative effects on their ability to be happy. This happens particularly in the cases of ESFjs who find themselves in semi-dual relationships with ISTjs, who suppress this function by nature, and therefore supress the ESFj's normally optimisitc attitude causing deep-seeded depression. Only with a type that stimulates this function positively, helping them recognize their own potential and the potential happiness associated with life will the ESFj feel energized and ready to live life.

    Fi (Introverted Feeling - Unconscious)
    Introverted feeling for an ESFj can be observed in their numerous friendships, and the ease with which they can develop them should they choose. They are able to maintain even the most difficult of friendships, although at times their relationships may seem superficial because they are unable to verbalize the dynamic, and therefore unable to explain why they have a relationship with someone. In more unstable types, this function can help contribute to their willingness to engage in unhealthy relationships by creating a rigid emotional disposition towards the other person in the relationship, which is often difficult for them to break.

    Se (Extraverted Sensing - Unconscious)
    This function is noticeable in the ESFj's ability to be aggressive and extremely unyielding when they feel that they, or someone they love has been wronged. They are not outwardly aggressive, but they are able to be persistent when the situation calls for it, often suprising people who may not know them well. As it is an unconscious, and uncontrollable function, it simply assists in their day to day affairs when necessary, and contributes to their success, particularly in sales. As this function is not something they particularly need to pay much attention to, they rarely if ever find the need to seek out thrills and dynamic sensory experiences, making them appear to others who do enjoy this, a little soft. Male ESFjs will often compensate for this by playing a lot of contact sports where they can be somewhat successful, but rarely enjoy the game for the reasons they might state. For them it is a matter of showing that their emotional softness does not translate into physical softness. At times however, they can overdo this, trying to appear stronger and more aggressive than they really are, which can cause annoyance on the part of others leading to the occasional altercation.

    I hope this article was enjoyable. Please let me know what you think as I am constantly refining my understanding. Keep in mind that this comes mostly from my own observations as well as literature on ESFjs that I have read. I tried not to repeat what I have read elsewhere, but that is somewhat inevitable as I have read quite a bit and forget what is mine and what is someone elses at times. As I did not bother to spell check this post because of its length, please excuse the grammatical and spelling errors.

  2. #2
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    The ESFJ's that I have known fit your description quite well.

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    They were sensory subtypes...I'm not sure if that matters or not.

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    They were sensory subtypes...I'm not sure if that matters or not.
    I'm not personally a big fan of sub-types, only because I think that the theory attempts to eliminate environmental factors that cannot be accounted for (and also give us our individuality). Thanks for the feedback!

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    Good article! I know well one ESFj and shes exactly like you wrote. Specially I liked the place where you sayd that ESFj likes logical theorys. All ESFjs I've met, like me speaking smart talk. They become exited, emotional, cheer me up to speek more. And they have this gaze like you are very handsom, when you do that.

    There are subtypes. However, this does not mean, that there are two different types of ESFjs separately. Subtypes are one type, just some ESFjs are more emotional and some ESFJs are more aesthetic. And that's it.

    And it's really shame that ESFJs end up with ESTps or ISTjs. That girl I know, had relation of benefit and it made her life into hell. If I hadn't sayd to her ,that she can't change her relationship into dream relationship, she'd still be with that guy. ESFj likes harmonious relationships. ESFj has a dream of big family with lots of loving and wordless understanding. I have two ESFj friends,their both 17,they are girl and one guy, and they both dream about their own home with happy marriage. Knowing ESTps and ISTjs, I would say ,that ESFj doesn't find happyness with them. Se people are very agressive and they like to fight. That's something you hate, if you are from alfa.

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    There are subtypes. However, this does not mean, that there are two different types of ESFjs separately. Subtypes are one type, just some ESFjs are more emotional and some ESFJs are more aesthetic. And that's it.
    I'm not in disagreement with the observations of sub-types described by many brilliant russian socionists, but I feel that unlike a person's base type, sub-types are much more unstable, and are primarily (if not the exclusively) the result of external influences. Because of this I believe a person's sub-type is always subject to change.

    For example, I would be classified as an intuitive sub-type of the INTj. My "preference" for utilizing my intuition, making me often appear to be more extraverted to people, comes a lot from my experiences as a child, adolescence, and early adult years. Having a mother who is an ENFp gave me a strong Ne influence by which to develop my second function (interesting how one can learn from one's supervisee), and because of this I think it may have developed this function somewhat more quickly than in other INTjs not exposed to this trait regularly. However...because the second function is not something that should be used consisently, as it can wear a person out (as I find), I believe that over-time I will begin to (as I am finding at this stage in my life) revert back to a stronger preference for using my primary function, which by definition would make me a thinking sub-type. I notice a lot of people who would be typed as secondary function sub-types, often appear more depressed (especially extraverts) and tired. I know from my own experience that extraverting on a regular basis as I am forced to do (I'm in sales), that I often feel more psychologically tired than I would like.
    Another example of this came from my relationship with a woman having (according to sub-type theory) the ISFp primary function sub-type. When I was in this relationship, I found myself having to use my second function more than I would have liked in order to keep her interested. This drew upon my energy significantly, causing me to wear down very quickly creating more volatility than might be expected, especially towards the end of our relationship.

    I will say though, in support of the theory, that I am very much attracted more to secondary function sub-type ESFjs than primary function ones. However, those that I have known have wreaked havoc on me emotionally, because as I stated before, they are usually much more depressed, and less willing to show their emotional side on a regular basis, which is the most attractive feature of any type with Fe or Si as a conscious function.

    I will continue to revisit this theory though as it does pose an interesting question, that being "Where does inate personality stop and external influence begin when developing our individual psychologies?" Thanks for the thoughts.

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    Great article! The person I've known most well was an ESFJ and this descriptions fits them to a to. I've seen them go through these stages first hand. Good job, can I add this to my site?

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    Quote Originally Posted by metaiwan
    Great article! The person I've known most well was an ESFJ and this descriptions fits them to a to. I've seen them go through these stages first hand. Good job, can I add this to my site?
    Thanks! Sure, you can add it. Just e-mail me and I'll send you my info for authorship. Thanks for the offer.

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    I'm thinking the same about the subtypes. I also think that they are permanent and your subtype depends, how external world influences you.

    I have also noticed that to prefere the second function over the first one, you need to develope it. And it works automatically, so you need to give it tasks to do constantly. However, when a person is introverted subtype, then we must watch, that this person isn't having depression, because this illness also makes people quiet and withdrawn.

  10. #10
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    Wonderful article, SFVB.

    I guess now I understand why my ESFJ male friend hops from one relationship to another.

    An ESFJ girl I know had an ESTP boyfriend. She was always saying that she wants to marry him and have many children. They broke up in the end much to everyone's surprise. People always thought that they were going to get married. Well, her current relationship is a rather dysfunctional one... This new boyfriend is very controlling and he likes to threaten suicide in order to keep her by his side.

    Anyway, I hope that you can come up with other 'uncovered' articles in the future. I enjoyed reading Tanzhe's and yours.

  11. #11
    Creepy-Waddles W.

    Default now that's a high quality, fully comprehensive article!

    Very well put. nice and tidy.
    Virtually every ESFj that I have encountered has fit that description quite well.

    Either they are more numerous, or they just stand out more than other types, but i have found ESFj's everywhere I go. I even have an ESFj physics professor, who, unfortunately, seems to be losing his mind. he has even, by the slip of the tongue, questioned his own comprehension of the subject matter. "Am i going crazy?" he says . Poor old guy. It amazes me that he even found his way into that field.

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    esfj physics professor! Highly unlikely.
    As people get older they learn to use their weaker functions more effectively. Thus, a mature and middle aged intj or entp can incorporate extraverted felling into their teaching as they age and it is "logical" to use extraverted feeling in their teaching lessons because it often helps motivate students who might otherwise find the subject matter boring.
    Not that Esfj's are dumb. They just don't have what it takes to teach a highly complex subject such as physics, advanced math, law, computer science ect. Most Esfjs cannot fully understand such subjects, let alone teach them.
    People often mistype, because, not all members of types act the same. There are many variations among them. You need to keep this mind. I know some Intjs who are fairly extraverted and friendly, particularly when they are talking about subjects that interest them. I know other with horrible social skills.
    Most university professors (at least in respectable schools) are NT, unless they are in a humanities department, where some NF's dwell. And most are intjs, because they are the type with the natural abilities best suited for academic success, and thus, for the more studious of this type, academia seems like a good fit.
    Conclusion-Unless you are at a community college, it is unlikely that you have an esfj teaching anything, much less physics.
    Lesson: Develop you intuition and learn to type better.
    Don't mean to sound arrogant.
    And, sorry to sign in as guest.
    John, the INTJ.

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    Excuse my phraseology, but that last poster is an ass-monkey. How about Steve Balmer the CEO of the largest corp in the world? There's a dumb ESFJ for ya. Such barely contained prejudice on this board. Sheesh. Oh and another thing: names for the quadras. Call alpha something other than alpha or anyone who has read Brave New World will assume that you pine for the day of the Epsilon-Minus (what, an ESFP?) spit-shining your blasted INTJ shoes.

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    This is ridiculous. Socionics types are not a death sentence. Of course an ESFj could go into physics and do fine, but based on functions such a type is unlikely to be interested in such a field. It doesn't mean that they can't understand physics or that an ESFj could never make a good teacher or physicist. This kind of thinking is detrimental to socionics as a science.

    The last thing people need is to be is to be told that they are going to have a hard time with something because of their type, and I would argue that this isn't true anyways. Stop trying to turn socionics into some kind of insultative grouping process. I mean what's next, interment camps for ENTp's? Automatic "Special ed." for ESFj's? ISFp's having to sit at the back of the bus?

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    Sociotype doesn't tell you what not to do. It only says how realistic your chanches are. Being ESFJ, you wouldn't win the Nobel Pize, but you could be good at teaching Physics in elemantary school. Science is a very large institution and evrione can do what ever they want. I know ISFp girl getting degree in hard science, for example. And more over, Science needs all the types to make ''The Law of Quadras changeing'' happening. Science bing only NTs, would be just a bunch of empty dreamers.

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    Sociotype doesn't tell you what not to do. It only says how realistic your chanches are. Being ESFJ, you wouldn't win the Nobel Pize
    What unfathomable bullshit! Socionics has nothing to do with chances for success in life. It's really very disturbing that you interpret it like this.

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    What unfathomable bullshit! Socionics has nothing to do with chances for success in life. It's really very disturbing that you interpret it like this.
    Are you INTJ? INTJ's usually don't misunderstand me. I sayd Socionics doesn't tell you that you as ESFj shouldn't become physist, it tells you that
    if you as ESFj become physicist, you will have to use your weak functions and it is bad for your health, but still, if you want to become one, you will find your self a place in that science. Socionics plays role, I sayd that, when I sayd ESFJ won't be able to win Noble in science, type is not the one, but science is institution and ESFj as a minor thing is still an important for it.

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    I'm sorry to say a ESFJ who was working in physics would not be terribly happy with their work. The important thing is to be good at what you do. Here is a list from MBTI of careers they like to suggest to ESFJs

    http://www.bsu.edu/students/careers/...-23840,00.html

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    But what if the ESFJ would work with it's dual? It's not the example word by word, but Engles,ESFJ, worked well with Marx, ENTP, on phylosophy.

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    Pedro, that's what I'm talking about. It's too sterotypical to think that NT's are the only ones in science or NF's in humanitaries. World is a mix of all types doing things in various fields. Socionics can't say that hey, you're ISFP, don't go into gene technology. ISFP can do what ever it want's, but concidering what Socioncis says, ISFP can be more succesfull ,watching out all the mistakes to do in it's area. So I would say that, your type doesn't tell you what not to do, do what ever you want! But don't forget, where Socionics laws are unchangable.

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    I would like to abstract a little and say that Western Science is suffering from Ne unsupported by Si. We can figure out all sort of useless crap that doesn't filter back to our sensoric interpretation of the world around us. Have you ever had the experience where you learn of some far-out quantum physics hypothesis and then try to look at the world with new eyes, and the world actually "seems" different to your subjective sensation (Si)? I have. Probably many here have. But how often does that take place? Not very. Especially with most absurdly reductionist fields of science...

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    I completely agree with you Maestro.

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    Default To "John, the INTj"

    As a matter of fact I am at a community college, so there you go, John. Of course I'm not an expert typologist, typology is just a subject I take interest in. My dominant function is extraverted intuition as well so i'm not concerned about developing it as much as I am my creative function. Thanks for the concern though.

    Obviously if the guy appears to be going crazy he wouldn't have been accepted at the university level, that was implied. Although your criticisms are welcome I think that you need to develop your intuition better before jumping the gun and ridiculing people who have simply not displayed enough information. I had never thought my response wasn't worthy of a reply, it was just a couple of sentences.

    But in all respect, because you're probably a nice guy :roll: , yes, the professor is an ESFj, i am certain of it since I have been exposed to ESFj's my entire life. My father and sister are both ESFj's and i have worked with many ESFj's.
    I was actually a little bit surprised by the conclusion that I came to but it was just how all the information seemed to fall into place. He spends a good half of his time asking people around the room if he made his point clear enough and if the students question him too much he has trouble explaining himself since he gets so caught up in the emotion of the situation. I think that his sensing aspect actually works as a good teacher tool though- like an ENTp he often uses drawings to explain what he's discussing. He keeps as far away from the math as he can, preferring to keep in close communication with the class. He uses his well developed Fe Si to notice the needs of the class.

    Another factor that contributed to the conclusion I came to was how quickly and amiably we were able to communicate on the first day. I am usually quite withdrawn from my professors, keeping a longer psychological distance. We definitely activated one another. He also seemed to pick up on my NT because he seems to keep his distance from me during "Labs", as if he is a little intimidated(he really shouldnt be, but im glad he keeps away nonetheless).

    I think that ESFj's make wonderful teachers so long as the lessons are taught at a general level. He is more suitable for highschool than a community college. THIS man, as an INDIVIDUAL, should be glad he still has a job. Do i think that ESFj's can't be scientists? of course not! I'm not this omniscient all powerful being because i know a little bit about THEORETICAL typology. Although there is probably ample physical evidence scattered around to support socionics as a true science; all in all it is still just a sort of cross-sectional dichotomous nomenclature. There arent literally functional blocks in our minds, although there are(from what i have read, im no expert) regions which appear to correspond with the blocks. I think that socionics is a new and powerful way of thinking, but i dont think its strengths lie in stressing human limitations, but rather in studying how reality is interpreted by different forms of consciousness, and why these forms(types) are ALL important and necessary in EVERY field.

    i also think that scientists in many ways dedicate their lives to understand physical realities simply because they lack something that sensing types have. They strive to experience reality abstractly since they have abstractly oriented psyches. I think that scientists should try to appreciate the quality and textures of things more- i think, in my very amateur opinion, that this will develop a better scientific imagination.

    Steve, the ENTp

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    Default should have proofread.

    In my previous post i wrote:

    "I think that ESFj's make wonderful teachers so long as the lessons are taught at a general level."

    I should have written:

    "I think that ESFj's can make wonderful PHYSICS teachers so long as the lessons are taught at a general level."

    although even this might seem a little bit unfair since i dont know every physics professor on earth and therefore can't empirically back up that statement one bit.

    if an ESFj proves his worth in any scientific field its just a sign of a strength of his individual character and uniqueness.

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    Default Re: should have proofread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddlesworth

    "I think that ESFj's can make wonderful PHYSICS teachers so long as the lessons are taught at a general level."

    although even this might seem a little bit unfair since i dont know every physics professor on earth and therefore can't empirically back up that statement one bit.

    if an ESFj proves his worth in any scientific field its just a sign of a strength of his individual character and uniqueness.
    Absolutely. I think there was some kind of scandal about some Harvard top guy getting asked the question of why there weren't as many women in physics and maths as men. He said three reasons: 1. cultural differences(society), 2. They have different values and dont' care to be in physics and 3. (TONS OF OBVIOUS SCIENTIFIC STUDYS BACK THIS UP) Women are physically wired differently in the brain.

    Of course he's probably gonna get fired for being objective and not politically correct. Fuck I hate politics. And the media. When a question gets asked and a scientific answer is given.

    Now according to socionics it's not proven whether type is genetics or learned extremely early. I would think, that since MBTI and Socionics agree women are more likely to have F in their ego and men T in their ego, with society and archetypes coinciding with the results of this, that women are wired to be more likely to find their Feeling function useful as it's more efficient due to their physical brains, while men will tend to find T more useful due to their brain's workings. This is even before archetypes and societal impact come into play. This seems obvious to me.

  26. #26

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    Default Type and career

    As far as I can tell there does not seem to be very strong correlation between types and the careers people choose. Just for the sake of example, people I know, or have met and believe to have typed correctly, include couple of ESFP engineers, an ISTP engineer, an INFP programmer, an ENTP dentist, an ISFP business major, an ENFJ grad student working on his PhD in math. One of my primary school teachers was an INTP, the list goes on... You cannot presume that peole are NTs only because they are experts in a technical field or appear very smart to you.

    I would also say that the difference between men's and women's interest in science or technical fields does not appear to be related to the difference in T/F preference between men and women, for I tend to find quite a lot of men with ethical types who major in these fields. Maybe they are kind of overcompensating for their perceived lack of manliness but most of them seem to be doing quite well.

  27. #27
    Creepy-Dave

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    Wow, I can't believe so many people got offended by that comment... although I guess I can also get stressed over what I would deem incorrect information.

    However, in this case I would also say that an ESFJ physics professor is unlikely. I will not go as far as to say that all science professors are NTs. I actually would expect sciences such as botany, or biology to have more S types. These sciences seem to have specific classifications and such that many S' seem to enjoy far more than myself. Please realize I did not say 'all' anywhere in this paragraph.

    Someone mentioned a famous ESFJ CEO. This I do not think is uncommon. Keep in mind that CEO is very far from physics professor.

    Physics is a highly theoretical field. Ss tend not to get very involved in theory. For a very obvious example, look at the people who post on this form. I have just started posting here, but so far I haven't seen a single signature that says they are a sensor. Most everyone is INTJ/P with a few ENT/FPs. Why are there no sensors? Most just aren't that interested in personality theory.

    Next you may notice that most people that post here are also introverted. You can make assumptions based on type theory. The assumptions will not be absolutely correct, but probablity is very black and white. 9/10s of the time I will be correct to say and INT* posted a given message.

    I believe all types can be equally smart. However, the definition of intelligence is the only distinction between how smart a given type is. My sister is an ESFP. She couldn't care less about physics. I should comment that she could do it if she put her mind to it, but it just isn't her thing. You could say I am smarter than her in those respects. However, when it comes to communication, she could shut me down in any sort of contest testing such.

    Most of my math professors were INTJs. I haven't taken physics yet. Most of my CS teachers are ENTPs and INTJs. However, I had and ISTJ this past semester. I am actually positive he was ISTJ because he told us so when we discussed MBTI and working in teams. His specialization in computer science was more related to a sensor preference than iNtuitive.

    I'm currious if my writing sounds like I am angry or offended as I had commented these idioms on a few posts before me. If so I am neither. I am just enthusiastic about arguing an opposing view.

    -----------------

    ANYWAYS, the article that started this post was awesome. Bravo!

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    Yeah, my Calculus teacher was an ESFj. Made alot of mistakes in working out problems, but nothing too serious. Then I had an INTp Chem teacher. Strange as hell, and he was obsessed with watching "Bob the Builder" with his grandson. ISTj Physics teacher of whom we all know about. And then I think my Chorus director is an ESFp...

    Sorry, but I never really read the article (it's an ESFj we're talking about! )
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  29. #29
    Creepy-

    Default Re: should have proofread.

    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    I would think, that since MBTI and Socionics agree women are more likely to have F in their ego and men T in their ego, with society and archetypes coinciding with the results of this, that women are wired to be more likely to find their Feeling function useful as it's more efficient due to their physical brains, while men will tend to find T more useful due to their brain's workings.
    I can see where you are comming from on this one as women do seem to be more emotional. However, I am going to argue this is due to estrogen. This of course also leads to men's non-emotional attitude to be cause by testosterone.

    It is funny you mentioned my next argument in your own post. The Harvard professor's first point was "society". Here I believe women feel more prone to act as a feeling type because of gender roles. The same goes for men (except for thinking).

    Human beings are easily influenced by their surroundings. The media has major impacts on society (although I claim not to be influenced... denial??). TV shows VERY often depict women as compasionate and FEELING. Men are shown as impersonal and analytical. These are the stereotypes.

    Hopefully these explanations are coherent. When constructing arguments I often have so many ideas float through my head it is hard to get them on paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro
    I would like to abstract a little and say that Western Science is suffering from Ne unsupported by Si. We can figure out all sort of useless crap that doesn't filter back to our sensoric interpretation of the world around us. Have you ever had the experience where you learn of some far-out quantum physics hypothesis and then try to look at the world with new eyes, and the world actually "seems" different to your subjective sensation (Si)? I have. Probably many here have. But how often does that take place? Not very. Especially with most absurdly reductionist fields of science...
    quantum psyhics is not a good example. You can't see atoms at quantum level.

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