ILI-EIE Supervision relations (INTp and ENFj)

[nanashi]

what ILI is ever satisfied.

are satisfaction and desire mutually exclusive, then?? I think not. But if you don't have satisfaction....



Someone suggested we needed to buy ourselves sexual pleasure. I asked what ILI would ever be satisfied with that? Physically rubbing my parts on someone else's and paying them? Not my ideal sexual experience. Someone responded with the q:"What ILI is ever satisfied?" I asked if one could be both satisfied sexually but also open to innovation and more happiness/beauty, etc. I believe we can be. I also added, if you have desire and don't have a relationship which is great but you have to pay someone to get sex (presuming you want sex), that is yucky

[sarinana]

Duality success story!

not really!

I will update

its been two months and now he is just like the IEI I've been talking about on this thread and maybe worse...
But he is not IEI. why?
1) he doesn't go laughing at random things all the time. He is better than that. He never laughs. Even if he tells a joke himself. but actually i like him for this one. not for the 2nd one:
2) he is smart. so smart that i have no idea why he could like me. oh right. i am not even sure if he really likes me either. if i tell him 'i like you' he would answer 'i like you too'. but what he really does? nothing. nothing. nothing. nothing to show it.
so once i told him that i hate him. i was expecting "i hate you too" back.... so i could just leave and forget about him. but you know what was his reaction? there was no reaction. just... it's been whole week already and he is gone somewhere. i have no idea where. i tried to text him once. but since he wouldn't reply i took it as a "i dont want to talk with you now" and never texted him again.
now there is only one question left: is this the end?

[crazedrat]

yeah, you're ESE. go find an LII and leave the poor ILIs alone.
god i bet that's awkward... yeah I was in love with an ESE once. what a fuckin nightmare..
"quasi love"

[sarinana]

yeah, you're ESE. go find an LII and leave the poor ILIs alone.
god i bet that's awkward... yeah I was in love with an ESE once. what a fuckin nightmare..
"quasi love"

don't worry. from my experience LIIs were even worse. the only men I could stand and understand were SEEs and ESIs so far.
and if you will continue calling me ESE I will not resist to waste some time of mine....just to find a way how to beat your ass.

[crazedrat]

don't worry. from my experience LIIs were even worse. the only men I could stand and understand were SEEs and ESIs so far.
and if you will continue calling me ESE I will not resist to waste some time of mine....just to find a way how to beat your ass.

you are a fucking ESE. God I feel sorry for that ILI...
Basically you want him to officially express his affection toward you. And he doesn't, and you're concerned over the lack of Fe... blah blah blah. Typical of ESE.
This concern is atypical for SEE. Infact SEEs enjoy trying to pull emotions out of us, and find it interesting the ways we find to thwart their efforts.. They get challenged by it, they try harder, they get us to laugh a little bit, and the cycle continues.. I swear it's like being cold turns them on more.. I never understood it.

A good solution for you is to try to suck up to one of the known LIIs on this board and see if you experience duality. Like Brilliand, I think you two would get along well. go PM Brilliand.

[sarinana]

you are a fucking ESE. God I feel sorry for that ILI...
Basically you want him to officially express his affection toward you. And he doesn't, and you're concerned over the lack of Fe... blah blah blah. Typical of ESE. Exactly like what happened between me and this ESE. This concern is atypical for SEE. Infact SEEs enjoy trying to pull emotions out of us, and find it interesting the ways we find to thwart their efforts.. They get challenged by it, they try harder, they get us to laugh a little bit, and the cycle continues..

OH REALLY? YOU SAY?

read this:
Balzac, in each particular situation, feels if the time has come to begin the process. It is his inner feeling and he does not explain it in words (as intuition: irrational function to verbalize feelings is not easy.And double-hard to explain - why yes, but not otherwise). ILI - introvert and that "it is not the right time" he may not tell this. Externally, it can seem like inactivity. Napoleon mobilized, energetic and forces its way into the fight, and Balzac ... does nothing. Why - it is unclear. Napoleon can find this severely irritating. According to one SEE man: "I need something to happen! And she just sits there. "

The alternative - to make an arrangement. But before making an arrangement, people usually try to understand each other. With dual pairs it is not easy. Introverted ILI may run into his shell and try to take him out of there if you wish.( !!!!!!!!!!!!!!)And the ethical SEE perceives all the words and deeds as a demonstration of the relationship - and worse, relationship with him.(!!!!!!!!)

Situation may end with Napoleon getting mad, offended and while seeing the futility of his attempts he will withdrawn (Ego block - JS + BE). And Balzac, will most likely dive into his introversion. ILI may not show any emotions outwardly (constructivism, [4]), but inside they will burn for quite a long time. And external indifference, sometimes even coldness may hurt SEE partner very badly. Constructivists, even keeping their emotions inside, can strongly influence the surrounding atmosphere. And ILI, despite weak is not the exception.


Please, translated just for you.

[crazedrat]

Maybe you are right. Maybe you are SEE. That is a plausible explanation..
But you being ESE is still also a good explanation.
Hmmm..
Fine, you win. Fuck you bitch!

[sarinana]

It could mean an end to the relationship. Yeah, time hurt no one. I hope you guys figure your feelings out and make the best decision in the long term whether it is moving on or whatever.

Relationships...what a pain in the ass.

yeah relationships are pain in the ass...but w/o them you feel pain in the ass too. just different kind of pain. so what is better: to feel pain in the ass alone or share it with somebody?


mhm so how to get these words out from an ili if he thinks its an end?

there is this ESI guy who keeps trying to get to know me. and if i wouldn't know socionics i think i would have picked him on the first spot. he seems easier. but i picked ILI and so I naturally act like a victim with ESI. well what i mean here...even if its an end i won't be sad. but i can't just simply leave him when everything is so unclear.

[sarinana]

Well, don't be surprised if his own feelings are unclear and he doesn't know. It may end up you making the decision which he will manage to live with.

right! yeah i can see his doubt. he told me very early that he is a doubtful person. but i have dated IEIs before and I think they prepared me quite well to understand what a real doubt is.

I tend to agree about the ass pain, so long as the other person isn't a completely unmanageable douche bag who makes you want to pull out a gun and shoot yourself in the mouth.

well you ILIs have good intuition. Ni means less problems with seeing deeper into person. that's what i noticed in my ILI girlfriend. while i give a chance to everybody i meet she meets a person and almost immediately finds things to doubt about in him. and she is usually right...tho not always. yet relationship wise i have more troubled life compared to her.

[Ozz]

One of my ENFj friend met one of my INTp friend. The ENFj is now trying hard to make friend with the INTp. I understand that ENFj supervises INTp and that supervision relationships are not necessary good for the supervisee.

So my question for the INTp: What do you think of your supervisor? Are you influenced by them? Any tip for my friend on dealing with the supervisor?

[nanashi]

I feel uncomfortable around ENFjs. I serve as a source of knowledge for them sometimes. We connect on Ni insight/connection/progressive-stances. We conflict heavily on Fe and Polar Fe-ness. To me, it is like I'm on edge immediately around an ENFj. I feel that I'm about to be shown to the group around us as unfit in some way I don't care about by the person next to me who also thinks I'm insightful, so it's like a faux friend, like being judged by someone who is judging me on standards I don't respect. It seems like I'm a scientist who happens to have African genetic heritage, talking to another scientist, and that scientist will any moment out me to the racist people around us.I also subjectively feel there is a lack of their going deeper, even though they could---which is likely attributable to Ni being my first function and used by them as their secondary tool. It is a subjective impression which presumes that Ni is the best tool, simply because it works best for me. It is not credible. They may survive with their Fe intelligence beautifully.

I'd say the ILI can be polite, but I wouldn't want to be in a roomful of Fe-valuers when interacting with the ENFj.

[Beautiful sky]

I feel very comfortable around my "supervisor"; that just means that they are monitoring my activities with regards to Se perception and nothing more; it's not that they are out to physically harm or hurt me. I love a lot of them and make great friends with them, they just drain my energy supply after a short while because they are so god darn active all the friggin time and don't emphasize on Si, rest, recoup and enjoy good pleasurable things...ummm Si. They can see and sense everything, there is no rest for me; please give me some time off and away from your constant monitoring and give me chance to sleep, rest, have pasta...lol

[infi]

I only know one but she really drains the energy out of me. sorta like a vampire bat.

the best way to deal with her is pretty simple: Just say "I understand" or "I agree" everytime he/she throws anything at you and make sarcastic jokes to cheer yourself up. also: alcohol helps!

ps: dont try to reason with him/her using logic. It wont work.

[yeves]

One of my ENFj friend met one of my INTp friend. The ENFj is now trying hard to make friend with the INTp. I understand that ENFj supervises INTp and that supervision relationships are not necessary good for the supervisee.

So my question for the INTp: What do you think of your supervisor? Are you influenced by them? Any tip for my friend on dealing with the supervisor?

tips: tell him to ignore all that's coming from EIE's first function. the ILI from the very start doesn't look at people from a positive light. the EIE can make this attitude worse by harshly criticizing those that the EIE doesn't like and quarreling with them, creating a negative emotional atmosphere that makes the ILI feel even worse about people, further disappointed and distrustful. in addition to this, the ILI feels apprehensive about being attacked in similar manner by the EIE, and causes the ILI to withdraw and avoid the EIE. however if EIE's criticisms are ignored then the ILI can tolerate their presence.

[Contra]

tips: tell him to ignore all that's coming from EIE's first function. the ILI from the very start doesn't look at people from a positive light. the EIE can make this attitude worse by harshly criticizing those that the EIE doesn't like and quarreling with them, creating a negative emotional atmosphere that makes the ILI feel even worse about people, further disappointed and distrustful. in addition to this, the ILI feels apprehensive about being attacked in similar manner by the EIE, and causes the ILI to withdraw and avoid the EIE. however if EIE's criticisms are ignored then the ILI can tolerate their presence.

I want to say that I don't think ILIs are afflicted by their own negativity. If I'm criticizing someone I don't feel bad about it or it doesn't make me feel bad unless I later realize that it's unjustified. It's just how things are from my perspective. And my own negative evaluations of people (even if it's a ton of people) doesn't color my perception of all people. I don't say "Oh, people are so stupid. This world is so hopeless." That just sounds like an idiot caught up in his ego. I may be disappointed and distrustful in/of certain individuals but not all people.

While I admit that EIE's criticism do make me apprehensive, the first thing that bothers me about EIEs is their way of socializing/dealing with people, which I could go on and on about, but can't go in depth right now. I generally don't avoid EIEs but if I do it's either because I can't give them the kind of feedback they are looking for, I have a disdain for how they deal with people, or I'm seeing right through what they are trying to do.

[silke]

an example of ENFj-INTp couple trying to make things work
Marie - EIE-Fe sp/so ; Ron - ILI-Te so/sp. - Dr Phil Abused Wife or Abused Husband?
(she is medicated on the show, likely on antidepressants as she mentions herself)

It's like they are competing at who is the bigger victim in their marriage: "Dr. Phil talks to Marie about the footage, and she tells him she’s terrified she’ll become “another missing wife.” Ron joins Marie onstage and claims her accusations of abuse are all lies, which made him reluctant to even come on the show. Ron claims he is the real victim in their relationship and that Marie is the one with anger issues — exacerbated by the fact that he claims Marie drinks alcohol on top of taking prescription medications. “She’s not well, so I give her the benefit of the doubt, while being a punching bag,” Ron says.

[Skepsis]

It is a mistake for an ILI to ever to reveal their values and emotions to an EIE. You be be left feeling invalidated, vulnerable, and viewed as somehow less mature. I recommend not being emotionally open with them to start, but if by mistake it happens you have two good options: 1)don't do it again 2) tell them how dramatic they are being and don't do it again.

[Iris]

an example of such couple trying to make things work

him - ILI-Te so/sp, her - EIE-Fe sp/so
Dr Phil Abused Wife or Abused Husband?

What makes him ILI?

[Fragment]

What makes him ILI?

MTE; this looks more like pathology. Perhaps Narcissistic PD? He could be any type without good impulse control

[Emmym]

It is a mistake for an ILI to ever to reveal their values and emotions to an EIE. You be be left feeling invalidated, vulnerable, and viewed as somehow less mature. I recommend not being emotionally open with them to start, but if by mistake it happens you have two good options: 1)don't do it again 2) tell them how dramatic they are being and don't do it again.

A good rule of thumb I've learned to use with EIEs (and ESEs as well) is to not take them very seriously. ILIs take me pretty seriously, so I can imagine EIEs would pose a problem.

[Iris]

A good rule of thumb I've learned to use with EIEs (and ESEs as well) is to not take them very seriously. ILIs take me pretty seriously, so I can imagine EIEs would pose a problem.

Do you like to be taken seriously?

[Emmym]

Do you like to be taken seriously?

Is this a trap?

[Creepy-male]

A lot of the posts in the last third of this thread hit the relationship on the money in my opinion -- especially @yeves. I suppose with ILIs, especially if there are mutual interests or commonalities in the way we view the world, the best relationship with them for myself as an EIE is to keep one another at a distance in terms of intimacy. I find that when the distance is bridged, usually by me, I don't get the feedback from them that I need in order to progress the relationship forward. Unfortunately, I end up dictating the terms too much as a means to make up for my lack of info.

From afar, I generally enjoy ILIs in terms of how they view the world, their sense of humor, tastes in art, music or whatever -- especially if they have a weird flavor to them -- but intimate interaction with them has often led to disaster. Many ILIs are often idealistic about people and that idealism, although very sweet and admirable, is fragile. Although I am humanistic for the most part, I can be quite severe and cynical in terms of my outlook on people as they are in actuality.

That being said I can usually tell whether or not ILIs are good people in a heartbeat -- even under the salty armor they protect themselves with. However, when conflict ensues for whatever reason -- I end up somewhat annoyed by what the ILI says and in turn respond with something callous. This offhand remark somehow hits them straight in the gut like a fucking sledgehammer and they can get really hurt and tend to withdraw. Any attempts to alleviate the situation are kind of useless in my experience. It's a shame but yeah that's what ends up happening more often than not.