Subtypes in supervision relations

[Jarno]

I'm in a couple of supervision relationships and seen other people in it. I've come to notice something that i've read somewhere.

Sometimes the supervisee is submissive and gives presents makes jokes for the supervisor.
And sometimes the supervisee is trying to dominate the supervisor, not willing to give in.

Well i've noticed that the supervisee is submissive if he's of a different subtype then supervisor,
the supervisee tries to dominate when he's the same subtype as supervisor.

Could this just be coincidence or has somebody on this forum noticed this too?

[FDG]

I'm in a couple of supervision relationships and seen other people in it. I've come to notice something that i've read somewhere.

Sometimes the supervisee is submissive and gives presents makes jokes for the supervisor.
And sometimes the supervisee is trying to dominate the supervisor, not willing to give in.

Well i've noticed that the supervisee is submissive if he's of a different subtype then supervisor,
the supervisee tries to dominate when he's the same subtype as supervisor.

Could this just be coincidence or has somebody on this forum noticed this too?

When the supervisee is of the same subtype as the supervisor, the relationship is actually one of mirror

[posablethumb]

Also comparative too, right? INTj-Ti and ESTp-Ti? Or is it a totally different relation?

[FDG]

Also comparative too, right? INTj-Ti and ESTp-Ti? Or is it a totally different relation?

It's mirror alright

[tcaudilllg]

What the hell--?

[ScarlettLux]

THIS is PRECISELY what confuses the SHIT out of me!

The subtypes deal...

Say an INTp Ni subtype with an INFp Fe subtype.. would that be close to mirror? Would INFp N subtype and INTp N subtype be identicals/!?!

*MIND IS BLOWN*

[FDG]

THIS is PRECISELY what confuses the SHIT out of me!

The subtypes deal...

Say an INTp Ni subtype with an INFp Fe subtype.. would that be close to mirror? Would INFp N subtype and INTp N subtype be identicals/!?!

*MIND IS BLOWN*

INFp Ni-ENTj Ni -> mirror
INFp Fe-ENTj Ni -> supervision
INFp Ni-ENTj Te -> supervision
INFp Fe-ENTj Te -> conflict

Doesn't hold true for identity though. Basically the supervision is mostly felt on one's own 1st function more so than PoLR, that's why.

There are some further complications. For example, what would on earth an ESTj Si-INFp Fe relation be? This problem can be easily solved by noticing how in the social situations in which an INFp uses Fe, the ESTj can only either use Te, or become temporarily an ESFj and use Fe; this way, the relation either become of conflict, or of mirror; the opposite is also true: when the ESTj is in a situation in which Si is to be used, the INFp uses Ni, so the relation becomes one of conflict.

[uninspired]

INFp Ni-ENTj Ni -> mirror
INFp Fe-ENTj Ni -> supervision
INFp Ni-ENTj Te -> supervision
INFp Fe-ENTj Te -> conflict

It's not that simple. Even if two types are of different subtypes and have different functional strengths or emphases, they're still very much a member of that specific type. While an ENTj Te may share some characteristics of an ESTj Te, they're still incredibly different people due to their second and fourth functions. The second function makes so much of a difference because it's the preferred function of one and the POLr of the other, so it really shows in their personality, thinking, and choices, regardless of whether or not they prefer it more than their first function.
Therefore, even an ENTj with a focus on Te and an INFp with a focus on Fe will not have a conflicting relationship, because strong Fe on the INFp's part doesn't necessitate strong . is still there; it's just overshadowed by , and is not the ENTj's POLr.
Same goes for ENTj Ni and INFp Ni. INFp Ni doesn't mean the individual will focus more on POLr, and ENTj doesn't mean the individual will focus more on role.
If you examine people of these types more closely, you'll see how glaring their differences are, despite their similarities in functional preference.

[Mea]

Ok. What about ENFp-Fi and ENTp-Ti?

[uninspired]

Same principle. An ENTp is an ENTp, regardless of his or her functional preference. However, there might be more strain and discomfort between an ENFp-Fi and an ENTp-Ti since there's more POLr pressure than between two ENXp- Ne types. These POLr-related conflicts will likely surface in any comparative relations, though, but it is a matter of degree. Also, as I said previously, a stronger second function doesn't always mean the third one will be stronger as well. A Ti subtype ENTp might still have relatively weak , and vice versa for an ENTp. Very different types.

[Expat]

Well, that's where there is disagreement -- I do think, like FDG, that the subtype has an effect on the role function. So an ENTj-Ni is more Fe-focused, and on the surface resembles an ENFj-Ni.

So yes, I agree that the relationship between an ENTj-Ni and an INFp-Ni will be a mirror-supervision hybrid. I don't think it will quite the same as mirror; an ENTj-Ni, ime, is more adept at using Fe as a tool and recognizing its social usefulness, but not really valueing it if it conflicts with Te. At the end of the day, they remain ENTjs.

[tcaudilllg]

"At the end of the day, they remain ENTjs."

And that is good enough for me. :\

[Jarno]

just look at your own real life experience and you will notice it is still a supervision relationship.

just a bit changed like i started this topic.

But i've already started a new topic in General Discussion to keep a misconception from starting...

[discojoe]

My school had this well-educated Ne ENFp working as a staff member. He always got up my ass over the dumbest shit and there was never anything I could say. One retort from me and I was bombarded with chaotic Ne shouting I couldn't make any sense of. Luckily I tended to get on well with the INTjs .

[FDG]

[quote="uninspired"]

Same goes for ENTj Ni and INFp Ni. INFp Ni doesn't mean the individual will focus more on POLr, and ENTj doesn't mean the individual will focus more on role.

???

INFp Ni means that the Te is stronger and ENTj Ni means that the Te is weaker, that's why they are more close to mirror than supervision; also, yes ENTj Ni focusses more on Fe RoLe, there is no other possible explanation for subtypes

[Expat]

I think my brain went kerplody X.X

It's great all this subtype stuff is being studied more in depth though. Is there a way to figure out a person's type through subtype analysis or...geh I don't know how to ask what I want to ask @.@ Somebody help me here...

It's best to move on to subtypes only after you understand the types, and their functions, very well. Then you naturally spot the subtypes.

[misutii]

Well, that's where there is disagreement -- I do think, like FDG, that the subtype has an effect on the role function. So an ENTj-Ni is more Fe-focused, and on the surface resembles an ENFj-Ni.

So yes, I agree that the relationship between an ENTj-Ni and an INFp-Ni will be a mirror-supervision hybrid. I don't think it will quite the same as mirror; an ENTj-Ni, ime, is more adept at using Fe as a tool and recognizing its social usefulness, but not really valueing it if it conflicts with Te. At the end of the day, they remain ENTjs.

I agree with what you're saying and think I can provide an understandable example. My uncle's an ENTj-Ni subtype. Anyways despite him being ENTj I find that he's really good at compensating (maybe wrong word?) for his lack of Fe, especially in social situations, for example, one of his hobbies is that he enjoys cooking amazing gourmet meals and also he's a wine enthusiast so whenever we have family events he treats everyone to an amazing meal with vintage wine. Thus while he's still an ENTj, and not prone to much physically affectionate displays (i.e. hugging/emotional displays), he still doesn't come off as "cold" for the service s he shares supplant such displays (it shows that he cares, kind of like an indirect version of affection so to speak).

Anyways his ability to do this so well may be as much to do with the fact he's a healthy, successful ENTj, as with that he's an ENTj-Ni subtype. I've noticed that, when I analyze and type older people (i'm only 22 so I'm talking about ppl in their 40s-50s) there's a marked difference between healthy and unhealthy ppl. So for example healthy people seem to at least give the impression that they've transcended/compensated for their weak functions rather than avoided them. Like my ESTj-Se aunt that's taken multiple meditation/spirituality courses - shows that she's tackled her Ni weakness. Anyways I think I've veered off-topic, lol, but something to think about.

[Creepy-bg]

It's best to move on to subtypes only after you understand the types, and their functions, very well. Then you naturally spot the subtypes.

Okee dokee, that makes sense. You know I noticed lately that I honestly don't mind receiving advice from Expat, but other ENTj's usually annoy me greatly when they try because I feel like they're coming down on me, viewing me as stupid or giving me advice on something that I don't need.

yup Expat's good people

[Ms. Kensington]

i find it a little weird to say that a supervision relation is actually a mirror one, though yeah even if at the end of the day an ESTp is an ESTp and not an ENTp, at the end of the day a supervision relation doesn't have to be a supervision relation. That is, the relationship you have is not as restrictive as one to one. But it's still weird, you'd think that the actual type must color the relationship somehow.

[Jarno]

i find it a little weird to say that a supervision relation is actually a mirror one,

that was exactly the misconception i wanted to block with this topic.

supervision stays supervision because the order of functions don't change in subtypes. There is just a bit more an accent on 1 function. So there will be a bit of difference in strength of the relation, but that's all.

To change a relation, you have to change the function order in a person.