do LSIs/ISTjs have a tendency to ramble?

[uninspired]

I don't know if this is a TiSe trait, but most of the people whom I've typed ISTj tend to ramble when lecturing on a topic or giving an explanation. They basically spurt out as much information as possible instead of highlighting the main points and putting the topic into context. A lot of my ISTj professors can go on and on and on about a particular subject, often repeating themselves in the process, without realizing that doing so can be boring for their listeners. An ISTj, in my opinion, is like an encyclopedia in terms of their information absorption and regurgitation. I love ISTjs, don't get me wrong, but this is something I've observed about them. What do you all think?

[UDP]

Absolutely, especially if they feel it is right or important. I know an ISTj who holds 6 hour lectures, and argues with his spouse for hours at a time.

It seems to come down to some sort of personal gratification from being right, and basking in the correctness of what they are saying. Especially if they are pointing out how someone is wrong, according to whatever set of rules they believe in.

Those are negative qualities, however. Not all ISTjs are this way.

[uninspired]

Absolutely, especially if they feel it is right or important. I know an ISTj who holds 6 hour lectures, and argues with his spouse for hours at a time.

I definitely know about the arguing part, especially if the guy is an Se-subtype ISTj.

Also, I think ISTjs' tendency to ramble is related to their obsession with detail and weak . , in my opinion, is the ability to grasp the essential qualities of a subject and make these qualities understandable. POLr could be manifesting itself in that the ISTj is unsure of what's most important about a particular subject, so he/she compensates by offering up as much detail as possible. Or it could be that the ISTj is so fascinated with all of the minutiae that he/she doesn't realize that, for the most part, a lot of what they're paying attention to isn't really important. But in all fairness, their attention to detail is very useful in a lot of areas.

I also noticed everyone having a conversation about Hillary Clinton in the "What's My Type" section. Based on our observations of ISTjs, I think she closely resembles an ISTj in a narrow sense because, well, she rambles. She speaks in a monotone voice and focuses on concrete, minute details about policy as opposed to political philosophy in all of her speeches. Just my two cents.

[UDP]

^ Sounds reasonable.

[snegledmaca]

I think you mistyped your professors, or what you call LSI-s. One trait LSI-s have, and why I can't get enough of them, is precisely the thing you're professors don't have, the ability to have everything in one giant coherent model and to have an intuitive grasp on the context of the matter at hand. When conversing with them on a given subject if I venture of course they'll be quick to notice and correct me, even if it is in the slightest degree (and from what I've noticed this drives IEE-s crazy). I can also always count on them to provide me with a coherent structure, model of whatever (Even if it is wrong).

POLr could be manifesting itself in that the ISTj is unsure of what's most important about a particular subject, so he/she compensates by offering up as much detail as possible. Or it could be that the ISTj is so fascinated with all of the minutiae that he/she doesn't realize that, for the most part, a lot of what they're paying attention to isn't really important. But in all fairness, their attention to detail is very useful in a lot of areas.

What you have described here is what I would consider a PoLR. Or actually, any type of weakness in an informational element, or not being able to determine priorities in the field of a given informational element and not realizing that what one is paying attention to isn't really important, a lack of measure, tack in a given informational element.



Also, have you considered IEI for these people? I swear, what you've described there sounds just like me, always repeating myself, wanting to but never having a coherent model of the subject at hand, information regurgitation because of a lack of proper understanding the first time round, never noticing that I'm boring people to death with my constant dribble and so on. My heads a mess and I want it to be like and it most often manifests itself in a cripple trying to run fashion.

[Exodus]

ISTjs don't ramble. ESTjs ramble.

[uninspired]

ISTjs don't ramble. ESTjs ramble.

Perhaps, but IME ESTjs tend to be briefer and put things in context better. They don't list details as much, and they have a more authoritative, instructing tone in their voice as opposed to an informing tone.
The ISTjs I'm talking about here are the Ti-subtypes, not the Se-subtypes (who aren't intellectual at all).

What you have described here is what I would consider a Extraverted Thinking PoLR. Or actually, any type of weakness in an informational element, or not being able to determine priorities in the field of a given informational element and not realizing that what one is paying attention to isn't really important, a lack of measure, tack in a given informational element.

Fair enough. I agree with you that the individual doesn't favor , but the individuals I'm describing possess little to no either or either, so that rules out INFps. Maybe the tendency to list details isn't a manifestation of a POLr at all but just someone expressing and all the observations it brings with it.

[uninspired]

Case in point (cut to the very last seconds if you don't feel like watching the whole thing):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIYYosoBK8[/youtube]

[snegledmaca]

ISTjs don't ramble. ESTjs ramble.

Perhaps, but IME ESTjs tend to be briefer and put things in context better. They don't list details as much, and they have a more authoritative, instructing tone in their voice as opposed to an informing tone.

You're LSE-s sound like my LSI-s. IME LSE-s have all been softies, I'd describe them as unconsciously being princes on a white horse.

The ISTjs I'm talking about here are the Ti-subtypes, not the Se-subtypes (who aren't intellectual at all).

Those should have the qualities I've described even more pronounced (They should be even more similar to LII-s)

What you have described here is what I would consider a Extraverted Thinking PoLR. Or actually, any type of weakness in an informational element, or not being able to determine priorities in the field of a given informational element and not realizing that what one is paying attention to isn't really important, a lack of measure, tack in a given informational element.

Fair enough. I agree with you that the individual doesn't favor , but the individuals I'm describing possess little to no either or either, so that rules out INFps. Maybe the tendency to list details isn't a manifestation of a POLr at all but just someone expressing and all the observations it brings with it.

Mindlessly listing and focusing on details seems like a manifestation of a lack of understanding to me. I don't see how it has anything to do with . if anything I'd say a chronic lack of (But not PoLR). Perhaps ESE? EIE? ESI?

[uninspired]

Watch the video if you haven't already. It's not so much a lack of understanding as it is a need to keep giving information.

[UDP]

ISTjs don't ramble. ESTjs ramble.

ISTjs dwell, and manically focus on the details, repeating them over and over again to get their desired response, particularly when they are looking for an Fe response (look at Carla's "I am evil" thread in alpha).

An unhealthy ISTj can argue for hours, repeating the same things over and over again.

[Khamelion]

one i know does ramble, one doesn't. HAS THIS INFORMATION HELPED YOU FURTHER YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE HUMAN RACE?!?!

[uninspired]

one i know does ramble, one doesn't. HAS THIS INFORMATION HELPED YOU FURTHER YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE HUMAN RACE?!?!

Yes, it has, much like 90% of the posts on this forum (especially in the Anything Goes section), which clearly deal with subjects of the utmost importance and significance.

[mr_maguoo]

ISTjs don't ramble. ESTjs ramble.

But you're forgetting the context. He's a lecturer so it's his job to talk alot, regardless of type. My ESTj soon to be step-dad does ramble this but I don't think I'll ramble unless I'm helping someone or it's in a certain context, like a lecturer. My ENFp sister accuses me of 'lecturing' her when she asks for advice. I think it's becuase I tend to go into details, only because I think it's important to. It's not that I can't discriminate between important and less important details, but rather, explaining all the details of a problem helps give a 'fuller' picture of it and can assist the subject's understanding.

[Megan]

I don't know if this is a TiSe trait, but most of the people whom I've typed ISTj tend to ramble when lecturing on a topic or giving an explanation. They basically spurt out as much information as possible instead of highlighting the main points and putting the topic into context. A lot of my ISTj professors can go on and on and on about a particular subject, often repeating themselves in the process, without realizing that doing so can be boring for their listeners. An ISTj, in my opinion, is like an encyclopedia in terms of their information absorption and regurgitation. I love ISTjs, don't get me wrong, but this is something I've observed about them. What do you all think?

Wow, i have been wondering about this topic and what you have said here descibes what I have been observing in an ISTj perfectly. i think I know the type of person you are describing.

There is a person who I am currently working/studying with who I strongly believe to be an IS(T)j and he does ramble a whole lot. If I want specific information, I try to find someone else other than him to ask for it. Sometimes i sort of wish he would just say yes or no or provide a clear one sentence explanation and leave things at that. He likes to teach and really likes to share his knowledge, however, he seems unable to give you the main idea of anything and he takes a very long time to explain the simpliest things. I tend to end up just losing focus and getting bored and frustrated when he tries to explain anything. I previously thought that ISTjs were essentially to the point people but I am now not sure about this at all.

I find him rather lazy/sluggish too and he tends to inspect others work, give advice or share his past experiences related to the work rather than actually doing much himself. He absolutely loves inspecting things(often times doing this while walking around very slowly with his hands folded behind his back) and he seems to notice everything. However, like I said before, he is very willing to teach and share information and this is very admirable IMO.