My ILI friend has a pretty offensive sense of humour tbh. He actually made a joke about comparing a teacher of ours and ****** and said that ****** at least knew when to quit. (It was one of the said teacher going in turbo mode while 'teaching' case, and his humour sense is made of pretty much things like this.) He was pretty fascinated with this joke for a while actually. He also likes Filthy Frank and memes in general.
There is a nihilistic absurdism vibe to him, most likely 5w4 Ni subtype. It is also pretty fun to watch how he doesn't even realize just how much the EII in the group gets annoyed by him constantly picking on her, (he is actually trying to pick lightheartedly in a joking way) which really is a bad decision as she is also a 4w5 and seems to reinforce her sense of "I am always the one others in the group pick to mock" though I think someone actually told him since he doesn't act as 'annoying' towards her anymore.
Delta NF, or maybe Delta in general, cannot take jokes. I am always "poking at people". Testing their boundaries. But I am used to social environments where everybody picks on each other. It's spread around to everyone. May be a Beta or Merry thing but I can't be friends with somebody who I can't pick on basically. And my ribbing is usually light hearted too like you mentioned about the ILI. And the EII can't even take that. I often end up offending Delta types. Delta NF women particularly. lol. I like to bust their balls. The fact that it irritates them just makes me want to do it more.
Being a dick doesn't constitute what any function is about. To the degree we can speculate it does, Fe PoLR isnt much different from Fi PoLR when I think about being a dick, rude, etc. I've seen some awful cases of emotional abuse from XLI's, due to their PoLR. Stratiesvayka notices this too in her type descriptions for XLI's.
Hey, feel free to PM me with any opinions about my type
It seems like the usual way Beta quadra interact with each other and others, honestly. Living with an LSI mother, I am pretty used to her baiting people verbally to see if they would actually get her underneath sarcasm or any more lighthearted attempts. This also applies to another LSI classmate, and when I think about it it also applies to my IEI friend as well? I sometimes take her jokes too seriously- Not really offended but my might go the way of taking everything word-for-word especially when written. It leads to some pretty funny misunderstandings, but yeah.
Funny thing is, my mother's current closest friend is a male LSE and he gets really pissed at her and often times misses her sarcasm/actually calling him stupid in a slightly covert way all the time, so I suppose Delta vs Beta humour/communication style holds up in that example as well.
Addition: LSI friend was pretty shocked to realize now she was surrounded by people who picked her sarcasm while she wasn't even consciously meaning to be sarcastic as well- it is like their natural language they born with. Pretty amusing tbh.
But pretty off topic as well
Funny today I get a message from a Delta NF today crying her eyes out. Saying she will go to the "authorities" if I keep it up. Told her to eat shit. Don't lecture me, bitch. Fuckin hilarious. Sending me that fuckin message. It was like a page long. Like she thought those kinds of threats mean anything to me. Embarrassing. I love these types that act tough then fold immediately. Delta NF are soft as baby shit.
It was @Chae in case you haven't guessed. I offended her delicate sensibilities. And I am sure she is flustered and running to the authorities as we speak. Such a strong woman.
Not when it comes to saying things that could be precieved as mean. "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." ---->alpha Fe+
"Regardless, it doesn't make what I said any less true." http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1166272
^ It actually does make what you said less true because you were being unspecific.
I still stand by what I said.
I'll be the judge of what I say and do but thanks chief for the lecture. Ya dumb cunt.You could have just been graceful and apologized since you were in the wrong, but you drew it out and passive-aggressively shot back and tried to defend yourself to the end instead. Congratulations -- it was very mature of you.
To me, Fe PoLR is not a mean/impolite remark. That is Fi PoLR. "Meanness" would be disrespecting a bond between two people, or interpersonal values. Twisting that around, Fe vulnerable simply is against emotional expression for it's own sake, overriding what is genuinely felt. That can come across as mean in a way that you don't get a reaction that's commonly expected, or sugarcoating. But it is more behavior that really doesn't fit the social situation script rather than a blatant offense which aims at lifting the mood in vain, the Fe HA of SLE and ILE.
What I have heard both an ILI and an SLI say to me on here was that they "have something against [insert public venue like a stadium, parade, or festival]".
There was great expressed dislike and helplessness. The background information both gave is that they don't bother tuning into the atmosphere for reasons of conviction and also: pointlessness. That indicates Te creative is working. So when you see them at the venue all going against the stream or just making remarks of rejection that don't care about behavior standards, yeah - this is Fe PoLR in action. The person to sit grumpily at a party in the corner, wanting to go home to get something done, internally screaming how they don't like everyone. And you can see that expressed outside which clashes with other people's mood - that is some xLI being themselves there.
They either have to be lured out by benevolent force (SeFi) or benevolent interest (NeFi), that would be the IE counterpart to their behaviour as contrast.
TL;DR: Fe PoLR is inappropriateness in expression in antagonism to what others typically do. You can see that everywhere on the forum, our ILIs and SLIs march to a different drummer (and I support youuuuu!! ) .
Last edited by Chae; 04-20-2017 at 11:28 AM.
Well, they do not like hurt individual for the expense of others whereas I... do it like normal practice without noticing it but ESEs do it as well (with much better care). Fe PoLR: I'm going to take a dump on masses while I protect my dearest.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
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Umm... sitting grumpily in the corner. I'm no grump but if you need to lick people's behinds (bonding like delta NF or bondage like gamma SF) I'm not going to be social at all. Common theme among F PoLR is that they do not fit in without assistance where ethical pressure is diverse.The person to sit grumpily at a party in the corner, wanting to go home to get something done, internally screaming how they don't like everyone.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
In a whatsapp group convo from work one of my colleagues declared that her new bike got stolen last night. So everyone naturally responded with 'oh my, so awful!', 'can't believe people that do this' etc. which triggered me, because in our city it's pretty common knowledge to not ever ever ride new biycles, as they get stolen very quickly.
So the next day I said, 'anyone wanna buy a new bike? 50 bucks (Implying I stole it). They didn't appreciate that
If Fe polr has a problem it's in knowing what they said or are going to say is inappropriate.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
yeah I almost feel like thats Fe creative (or Fe demonstrative), or it could be Fe mobilizing too depending on the tone. I feel like Fe mobilizing would be more outright mockery, whereas Fe creative would be more "instructive." Fe demonstrative would be like if you somehow wanted to alienate those people for Fi reasons. Fe mobilizing would just be the overconfident teenager putting a spin on a Ti principle not realizing it might alienate those people or be taken a certain way (Fe polr is knowing exactly how it would be taken but not knowing what you're putting out--i.e.: Fi polr more or less knows whats its putting out but doesn't realize its hitting on something people value and thus damages relations. Fe polr knows that such a thing damages relations but doesn't realize it actually just happened until its too late, because they didnt think they were putting out the signal they thought they were).
I feel like its Fe creative cause its like you noticed the response to the "stupidity" as being not-really appropriate and decided to sort of retaliate with your own not-really appropriate response on the basis of your own understanding. in other words this seems to be a Fe/Ti "lesson" to recalibrate the initial mistake and reaction. or to put it another way, its two different pictures of a Ti/Fe relationship; the first one is not enough Ti thus the sympathy is somewhat counter productive inasmuch as it detracts from the learning experience in making the person out to be a pure victim rather than contributorily negligent. the second picture (your response) is a somewhat intentionally negative Fe pulse put out intentionally to "balance" the overly sympathetic response in order to, presumably, highlight the illegitimacy of said response and point to the legitimacy of "mockery" on the basis of the Ti principle that really needs to be emphasized so that things like this happen less in the future (Ni). the triggering aspect is the disjunction between the two conflicting Ni pictures of reality
Te would be like if you actually stole it and made 50 bux
Last edited by Bertrand; 06-27-2017 at 04:54 AM.
Exactly what I would have thought...
My rough guess of the PoLR's would be...
PoLR = dislike having to consider the...
FI - Feelings ... e.g... 'rude'
FE - expression... e.g... 'monotone voice'
TE - work?... e.g... 'lazy' ...... or Facts...e.g.... 'making it up'
TI - rules... e.g... "I did it my way"
NI - outcome... e.g... 'reckless'
NE - Alternatives... e.g... "ignorant"
SI - Asthetics?... e.g... "scruffy"
SE - force... e.g... "timid"
Not sure about TE or SI though, or SE really...
Last edited by neproblems; 06-27-2017 at 07:54 AM. Reason: to edit TE
If Fi polr knows what it's putting out then how can it not realize that it damages relations?
If Fe knows when a remark damages relations how does it not realize when it damages relations?Fe polr knows that such a thing damages relations but doesn't realize it actually just happened until its too late, because they didnt think they were putting out the signal they thought they were
LolTe would be like if you actually stole it and made 50 bux
its the difference between knowing the taste of your audience and not knowing what you're delivering (Fe polr), vs knowing what you're delivering vs not knowing how it will be recieved (Fi polr). Fi polr knows the tone they're taking but tends to mistake the effect it will have because they misunderstand the values of the listener; whereas Fe polr tends to understand the position of the listener but misunderstands their own delivery
they both can inadvertently be offensive, but Fi polr tends to make jokes that offend people because they assume no one would find them offensive, whereas Fe polr understands what makes a thing offensive they just have little to no control or awareness over the mode of expression used to deliver the thing, which in turn can create offense or misunderstanding. in other words, Fi polr meant to say the thing in the way they said it, they just didn't realize it was offensive. Fe knows what makes a thing offensive but didnt realize the way they were saying what they were saying could also be offensive or misunderstood. Fi polr struggles with values, Fe struggles with expression
About the polite/impoliteness matter mentioned above, there are plenty of texts that explain that. Specially the ones who dissect functions on the descriptions (Stratiyevskaya, Filatova, Reinin). Impoliteness could appear in 1DFe but also we shouldn't confuse Se aggression (like physical or verbal violence) or constant open emotional expression of negative emotions (Fe) with 1DFe impoliteness. 1DFe can be impolite or rough in expression sometimes, but rarely (or just on specific occasions would go to the extent of violence or something extreme). Also, 1DFe has "dry" emotional expression and is unaware or uncaring of social conventions or cues, specially on emotional matters. F.e. if someone is happy because have a good new, you won't see an SLI or ILI being emotive in this matter, they will just say probably: oh that's cool. But their emotional reaction would be null (doesn't mean that they are no happy for your success). This can be interpreted in general as rude, mean or insensitive. There are tons and tons of micro social conventions on interpersonal relations that can be ignored with 1DFe.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...I_.28Balzac.29
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...LI_.28Gabin.29
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...Stratiyevskaya
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...Stratiyevskaya
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...LI_.28Gabin.29
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...I_.28Balzac.29
http://worldsocionics.blogspot.mx/20...ntegrator.html
http://worldsocionics.blogspot.mx/20...ntegrator.html
Last edited by Faith; 06-30-2017 at 04:39 PM.
There is something terribly irritating with a person that wants something from you and resorts to smiles, soft expressions, and verbal manipulation to try and get you do agree to it. It can be cute in small doses if it's for nothing major and done by a s. o. or someone similarly close. Otherwise, no thank you.
lmao. when a girl posted a status about someone stealing a bunch of stuff from the girls locker room, I responded, "sorry" and they lost it.
that's hilarious, but I wouldn't say it's indicative of Fe PoLR per se, although it may be more characteristic of logical types than ethical types?
Sorry is meaningless and full of meaning therefore. It can be enraging to be told "sorry"...
Yes, the whole point to my post. "Sorry" is a euphemism for "I'm not one bit sorry really, only sort of might be, or might not be..." used flippantly most of the time, from what I know about IRL. What is needed is true empathetic words, or a true apology if that's what one is meaning, both should be backed with changes of behavior and/or action as needed.
You could say that same line using Fe to lighten the mood. It's all in the delivery.
My ILI ex used to say stuff like that and so much worse. He mostly did this in front of friends but sometimes he would offend my ESE sister because she did not find some things funny or thought he was insensitive to her. Teen girls... He kind of was insensitive to her sometimes because he thought she was clueless. I had to smooth things over between them many times. I hated taking sides. She didn't like dark or sarcastic humor so much either, in a general way, but that was the only humor he knew.
Lately she will surprise us with something that we never expected her to say. We mostly assumed that a lot of it went over her head but seems she has caught on and is giving it back to us. She is all grown up now and can hold her own. We have pulled her to the dark side. I did feel bad about the jokes made at her expense when we were all younger.
Anyway the rest of us thought he was funny even if he was somewhat dry. I thought it was so funny that I took on a bit of his humor style. So yeah, I could totally say something like that but in a way that they would have appreciated it.
Edit: No one could mistake him for a Fe creative though. He was too dry.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Concept of creepiness is in the eyes of beholder.
ESEs are so freaking predictable funny creatures. Aren't they?
Some EIE and IEI caricatures are downright creepy as you see what they are after.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Last edited by Aylen; 07-01-2017 at 01:30 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
You're pretty much right about the thought process of those who have those functions as a PoLR. I can speak from experience in that people never really disagreed with me in the points I was making (especially if they let me clarify my thinking) but it was obvious they just couldn't stomach "how" I made them (i.e. my PoLR was showing). Likewise my SEE brother never seems to get how logical/incentive structures work concretely outside his specialty in music theory and to the extent he does it's clearly because he's basically subconsciously using me as a cipher on how it's done (i.e. asking himself "what would End do here" if he's pushed into a corner). He got em' almost instinctively given his program but he always came to me asking why he was so adept in one form or another. He always seemed to get what he wanted, but his lack of always left him drawing a blank in regards to explaining to himself the why. Like anyone with a PoLR they're painfully aware of, they gotta ask someone they think has the answer. We were lucky in that we had each other .
You score another point in how my LSE mom is very obviously concerned about aesthetics (and how having it as a PoLR would mean you'd give next to zero fucks about it). I mean she obsesses over it constantly. It annoys me to a point but I sorta understand. She just really, really wants to live in a "nice" place and to her that means certain things...
There are exceptions to being Fe polr and I have learned a lot over the years. My youngest is Fe ego and I find her adorable, except when she becomes overly whiny to get what she wants. It is extremely annoying when my kids meltdown or throw a massive temper tantrum. Sometimes I have to just laugh because it is so ridiculous and over the top. Otherwise, their Fe is rather endearing. My youngest melts many hearts with her large, expressive eyes and facial expressions.
At first, as a new parent, it was very difficult, but I know they love me and I them. I often have trouble giving them the openly emotional responses they crave and desire. I do my best, but I think that is where Fi useful.
I agree with Fe poor being superbly monotonal in nature. I cannot speak or sing with much expressiveness. It requires and consumes way too much energy. Resources are too valuable to waste.
Fe POLR monotone ... when having to speak in front of certain people, for whatever reason when you are uncomfortable, ...it takes energy away just being there, let alone speaking. That high buzz messyness makes it hard to not be monotone, I guess.
Expressing emotions to young children, I have had no problem with my children, but once they leave that young child state, I am very reserved, too much so, but I am open and say to them and my hubby, "I do like you, I do love you, I just can't tell you that verbally any other time usually."
I also tell them I "love" them because I make food for them that they want on their Birthday. That's also how I can stand cooking day in and day out, though even so I can't cook everyday happily (nor successfully.) I am a good cook/baker but the typical ILI, specialties are my specialty. I can do anything but my "heart" isn't in just "anything" "anytime" FWIW.
In comfort blurting out ire at something someone does or says is Fe POLR too. Having a reaction like that in public is nigh impossible, it's the "locked up" version in public.
Mostly crowded places are unwanted ILI places. For me yes, but I do love Music and love concerts, so have learned to put up with crowds of that type.
Also I can sing, have sung in front of hundreds and thousands in the past (when I was younger) I could do that well because it was a practically anonymous thing to do, yes, solo work felt like that to me . Have me sing to a small group in a room, not happening. No way. I also liked "acting" but couldn't pursue much of that life because I had certain worldview that I couldn't stomach just "any" role so, "quit before it means you suck" was important for me. So singing in front of thousands, did I talk to them? No. That is NOT doable.
I wanted a band, but I didn't know enough people and couldn't promote myself and determined I'd rather be married and have a family anyhow.
I'm ILI-Ni and enneagram 5w4
It can also work in reverse. being part of our core stack combined with a lack of means that your "passion" can come across in all the wrong ways. Despite the cold exterior you'd be shocked to learn how hard and how passionate any given ILI feels emotion. We may speak in monotone and may even see it as ideal. But believe you me that is not diminished in the slightest. We DO "Feel", we feel harder than you know. The thing that separates us from the other types is that we are very able to divorce our feelings from our actions so long as we've delved deep enough into our own shadow to not face the problems Jung said would occur if we did not...
To give an example of this phenomenon, we ILI's are fully able to kill direct family members if we conclude they pose a threat to the survival of humanity for instance (as is any Gamma if you push them into a rhetorical corner). Even so, we'll weep for days, weeks, even months in our own way if it comes down to that. We won't let anyone see it if we can help it of course, but we DO feel very, very bad about that failure in our mind (for that really is an admission of failure in our mind, to kill a loved one). If only we could have made our case in a different way, if only our PolR didn't manifest at that precise moment.... you get the point if you have any idea as to how works...
Though I must say this from my own experience that, if you manage to truly hit "fuck it" status you'll stop being drained. I've only recently decided to say "fuck it" and boy oh boy do I feel great. Once you just embrace your weakness and just go all out you'd be surprised at how things seem to work out for you. Especially if you embrace the concept of your own imminent death. As a famous anime's protagonist said (likely drawing from a famous tome written by a samurai who was prevented from committing seppuku), "you're already dead!"
Once you accept that "fact" you are at once freed from all the fetters of this corrupt and horrible modern world. You are dead, accept it, and work from that point onward. Seriously, it's... very liberating.
Last edited by End; 07-13-2017 at 06:00 AM.
ILI to mid 30s lady coworker:
"That's a really nice jacket, it looks like something my mother would wear."
100% sincere. It didn't go over well.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.