Hahaha, I love how ISTj's can get their underwear all twisted when someone does something 'unfair', it can be very amusing if it is over some trivial thing. On the other hand I love it too when it really is something serious going on and they are just rock solid through all the crap flying about.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
No, it's not at all, and this is exactly why you are LSIOriginally Posted by Jimbean
That's most of alpha
Alpha+Beta are quite similar imo, albeit Beta is more perfectionistic and Ni.
And why does everyone speak in a condescending attitude to LSI, lol.
D-SEI9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Yeah, "follower" makes them seem like robots. And they're not. LSIs kick arse.
Bullshit. What was Saddam Hussein or Stalin if not a tyrant, both literally and by definition?
wtf are you talking about man, I don't know either of those men personally.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Yeah, where's the love? You're not exactly helping my self-esteem here. :0
lol Isn't Putin supposed to be LSI as well? He hasn't exactly been rule-abiding now has he? Oh and don't forget the LSI's ultimate claim to fame. "What is Alex Trebek?"
type #33
but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)
Har har har.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
one of my good friends is LSI. he's really good at following the rules as well as applying them. he's a cop you see. he spent his early twenties doing all kinds of questionable stuff to better undestand the people he would have to arrest during his career. he's so good at his job that as soon as he graduated from the academy, he was assigned to patrol the downtown part of the city at night. he also happens to be near paranoid. i like him alot but he needs to take things easy sometimes. thought he'd change after becoming a cop but he hasn't at all.
IEI - the nasty kind...
Is it about the prominence of the single eye?
I don't get it either.
type #33
but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)
No, YOU'RE a projector! So THERE!
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
I think a good example of an Ideal ISTj = Russel Crowe in "Gladiator" , they get shit done
Neither do I. They're both LSIs, and they're both tyrannical. They do not always follow the rules. They follow their rules. This is the point I'm trying to make; the one you haven't yet picked up on.
Thank you.
Do you not think he's an LSE?
Did you mean to say SLE for Crowe? Just curious as I've never seen LSE for Crowe before.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
I think the Gladiator character is LSE, but Crowe seems Se dominant. I think that's what Ezra meant (the former, at least).
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I totally identify with this.
Last edited by glam; 03-11-2011 at 10:17 PM. Reason: removing my quote ;)
type #33
but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)
Russell Crowe is an SLE. Maximus is a hybrid of Crowe and an LSE.
War should not be the last resort... war should cease to exist.
As the Master said... "There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."
It still echoes in my head Gabriel's line from The Mission: "If might is right, then love has no place in this world."
so... I choose love:
Last edited by glam; 03-11-2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason: removing my quote ;)
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
Hmm, very intersting. I never was a fan of Gladiator at all, even if most people raved about it, and I usually am a huge fan of Ridley Scott movies, and like Crowe as an actor. Not to mention I tend to love those kinds of movies. But there always was something about Gladiator that rubbed me wrong.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
I find that most Betas absolutely adore historical movies that glorify a certain time period, especially ones surrounded by war and the destruction/upbuilding of a civilization.
I swear that in itself epitomizes the Beta spirit.
Many Beta STs I know are huge history buffs as well and enjoy analyzing the politics of it all.
Like Apocalypto?
Maya fertility enhancement red leaves with the end result being the male jumping naked in a public body of water and the woman ventilating her mouth... might be Beta humor.
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
Yup I do that for sure
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
"The opposite of war is not peace. It's creation."
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
well I guess these 2 guys did their part in keeping you entertained:
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=535882
Wake up!
Last edited by glam; 03-11-2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason: removing my quote ;)
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
Yeah, I know. but the opportunity was too good.
sorry, I couldn't resist it
Last edited by glam; 03-11-2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason: removing my quote ;)
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
I wasn't joking... I just like bear bombing.
Last edited by glam; 03-11-2011 at 10:19 PM. Reason: removing my quote ;)
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
Doesnt that give rug burn to the groin?I wasn't joking... I just like bear bombing.
Not really.
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
A|35OLYUT3Li! Rrrrussian! Communis-meh! Vordkarr! Rev-o-lyushun-airy!
No, I totally agree with you. I'm a nerd when it comes to Athenian politics.
Russell Crowe's character in "Gladiator" (Maximus) is ISTj. Because the movie was hollywood branded it idealized the character so I can see how there'd be confusion in typing him but ESTj just doesn't work. You'll notice similarities between his character in Gladiator and the ISTj character portrayed in the HBO series "Rome" (Verinus I believe)
Maximus seems to portray Ti > Te. His single-mindedness was what got him through the scandal and crisis that became his life. It should be noted that ISTjs are quite formidable in the face of crisis, that's what betas are made for. An ESTj would have, in my opinion, reached out socially in such a situation, they're more aware of what other people think and say about them and this modifies their behaviour. ESTjs are Delta, they're most successful in stable life situations and more dependent on their social support networks.
I think another important thing to look at the role that hierarchy plays in both the ISTj and ESTjs lives. For both of them it is important. However, an ESTj is much more dependent on others to ascertain their own place in the "societal hierarchy", thus once they have a position they feel entitled to keep it. ISTjs on the other hand interact with the hierarchy in a similar way Maximus does. They're more aware of what their role is and of how it is largely determined by their upbringing and class, regardless of what others tell them. So for example in "Gladiator" there's the scene where Maximus is talking with the senator and the senator asks him why he should trust him (maximus) to march into Rome ahead of an army and then maximus has to convince him that he wouldn't attempt to take over Rome. The fact is that leading a faithful army into Rome logically entitles the leader to a right to power. But Maximus knows he's just middle-lish-class Spaniard that has spent his life serving the Empire. He serves out of duty, does his job, when the contract expires gives it up to someone else. Thus he finds mere mention of becoming Emperor, even if others wish it, utterly ridiculous, i.e. akin to an ex-african-american slave aspiring to be President in 19th century America.
Anyways his single-mindedness shows signs of strong and valued Ti and his ability to act under pressure shows a strong and valued Se.
If you want an example of an ESTj in "Gladiator" I think the other high ranking official, the one that decided to pledge loyalty to Commodus and who then was told to "dispatch" Maximus would probably fit the bill. The script was written with a bias against the new Emperor and those that continued to serve him but in reality his continued loyalty was the most proper response. He simply continued to do what he had always done. And I think this shows the most striking difference between the 'beta' and 'delta' mindsets. In times of confusion and turmoil betas are much more likely to seek out "high-minded" revolutionary-esque platforms/principles whereas deltas seek to bring order back and calm things down again before people start getting robbed raped and crucified left right and centre - unity is strength. If we look at Maximus in the mindframe of the time he's living in his disloyalty towards Commodus, in the name of "high principles" is actually unacceptable, treason.
All that being said I'm interested to know why others have claimed he's ESTj?
I'm sceptical.
So you're saying basically that he thinks "I couldn't possibly be this, because I am this", which is indicative of Ti?I think another important thing to look at the role that hierarchy plays in both the ISTj and ESTjs lives. For both of them it is important. However, an ESTj is much more dependent on others to ascertain their own place in the "societal hierarchy", thus once they have a position they feel entitled to keep it. ISTjs on the other hand interact with the hierarchy in a similar way Maximus does. They're more aware of what their role is and of how it is largely determined by their upbringing and class, regardless of what others tell them. So for example in "Gladiator" there's the scene where Maximus is talking with the senator and the senator asks him why he should trust him (maximus) to march into Rome ahead of an army and then maximus has to convince him that he wouldn't attempt to take over Rome. The fact is that leading a faithful army into Rome logically entitles the leader to a right to power. But Maximus knows he's just middle-lish-class Spaniard that has spent his life serving the Empire. He serves out of duty, does his job, when the contract expires gives it up to someone else. Thus he finds mere mention of becoming Emperor, even if others wish it, utterly ridiculous, i.e. akin to an ex-african-american slave aspiring to be President in 19th century America.
Why valued? Could it not just be strong?Anyways his single-mindedness shows signs of strong and valued Ti and his ability to act under pressure shows a strong and valued Se.
Hmmm, maybe.If you want an example of an ESTj in "Gladiator" I think the other high ranking official, the one that decided to pledge loyalty to Commodus and who then was told to "dispatch" Maximus would probably fit the bill. The script was written with a bias against the new Emperor and those that continued to serve him but in reality his continued loyalty was the most proper response. He simply continued to do what he had always done. And I think this shows the most striking difference between the 'beta' and 'delta' mindsets. In times of confusion and turmoil betas are much more likely to seek out "high-minded" revolutionary-esque platforms/principles whereas deltas seek to bring order back and calm things down again before people start getting robbed raped and crucified left right and centre - unity is strength. If we look at Maximus in the mindframe of the time he's living in his disloyalty towards Commodus, in the name of "high principles" is actually unacceptable, treason.
Because, essentially, he serves. And LSIs generally have an personal agenda, whereas he doesn't. His life is devoted to servitude in the sense that he's unaware of where he is in the social hierarchy (IMO), contrary to what you say. When Marcus Aurelius dies, he is fucked. He doesn't know what to do. He essentially becomes passive, and just reverts to basic human instinct to survive. He doesn't have Se creative. When he uses it, it's a show, just like demostrative Se. He doesn't revel in his victory. Instead, he asks "are you not entertained?" The crowd love him. He doesn't love him. But then he wants his freedom. Clearly, this is a Delta concern. I mean, he wants to live in peace on a farm with his family. Beta? Hardly.All that being said I'm interested to know why others have claimed he's ESTj?
Actually living in peace, on his farm with his family, is a FAR thing from servitude in Roman terms. Such a life was idealized back then by the well to do, I believe in Ovid or Virgil wrote poems about such. It's only in more recent history, particularly after feudalism became a factor, that farming was degraded to a career of "servitude". Think about it, if anything going to his farm and living with his family and providing for them and himself symbolized freedom and independence. He could do what he wanted, when he wanted, and could finally take direct responsibility over his family after having lived apart from them for so long. War isn't fun, the thing that kept him going all those years was knowing that he had a home and family to return to.
I don't see what you mean about his Se creative being a "show" and so not being creative. My Fe is creative and in the past I've used it to put on some quite fantastic shows I tell you. Remember that if he's an introvert his creative function is extroverted so it will show. The creative function is controlled, it's mainly used to get what you want when your main function isn't quite cutting it. The fact that he turns it on and off shows he's in control of it. Where do you see Si as his creative function? How does he value comfort?
He becomes passive? His family was murdered and he was kidnapped by a caravan of slave traders. Damn straight he's contemplating suicide. He doesn't revert to base human instinct, he's been trained to fight so knows how, has tons of experience at it, it's how he's made his living. Despite popular opinion being good at fighting, specifically Roman style, is not about passion or instinctively acting out, it's about waiting for the right moment, keeping a clear head, not doing something stupid. Also I think the slave leader guy that befriends him and mentors him (I forget his name but hope you know who I'm talking about the one that won his freedom in the arena himself) was ENFj, notice how they strangely get along? how maximus actually takes the man's advice to play to the crowd (and who would know better than an ENFj ?lol)? Don't underestimate the influence of other people.
Also just the way he was spending his free time cleaning his sword, or with the wood pieces that he carved himself, reminded me of my ISTj father, always building things/working with his hands vs. making small talk.
totally agree with misutii about maximus. total LSI.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I know that, but an LSI would take up the title of Emperor straight away. Beta STs want that power. Why the fuck would he go back to his family when he could be the most powerful man in the known world? Simple; he's not an LSI.
What discojoe was talking about before; relax and have fun with your 8th function - no worries.I don't see what you mean about his Se creative being a "show" and so not being creative. My Fe is creative and in the past I've used it to put on some quite fantastic shows I tell you. Remember that if he's an introvert his creative function is extroverted so it will show. The creative function is controlled, it's mainly used to get what you want when your main function isn't quite cutting it. The fact that he turns it on and off shows he's in control of it.
Instead of dealing with all the political shit, he'd rather chill on a farm. This is clearly Si, not creative Se!Where do you see Si as his creative function? How does he value comfort?
Why do you think he's an EIE? Could just as easily be his Super-Ego partner.He becomes passive? His family was murdered and he was kidnapped by a caravan of slave traders. Damn straight he's contemplating suicide. He doesn't revert to base human instinct, he's been trained to fight so knows how, has tons of experience at it, it's how he's made his living. Despite popular opinion being good at fighting, specifically Roman style, is not about passion or instinctively acting out, it's about waiting for the right moment, keeping a clear head, not doing something stupid. Also I think the slave leader guy that befriends him and mentors him (I forget his name but hope you know who I'm talking about the one that won his freedom in the arena himself) was ENFj, notice how they strangely get along? how maximus actually takes the man's advice to play to the crowd (and who would know better than an ENFj ?lol)? Don't underestimate the influence of other people.
This is not indicative of LSI > LSE. It just proves that he's an ST, which isn't what we're debating.Also just the way he was spending his free time cleaning his sword, or with the wood pieces that he carved himself, reminded me of my ISTj father, always building things/working with his hands vs. making small talk.
ezra you're getting too caught up in the theory and losing touch with reality.
after fighting wars for 25 years, who wouldn't want to go home to their wife, kids, and farm?
you think that just because somebody has Se in their ego block they want all the power all of the time in a never ending fight?
if so, then explain why IEI is so appealing to SLE. or why EIE is so appealing to LSI?
reality check dude.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
^ yup. When they retired the legionnaires received a plot of good farm land, and maybe some cash. Good farm land was very highly sought after. They hoped to survive so they could raise a family and live the good life, that was one of the main reasons they signed up. They wanted to become farmers! Only every second legionnaire survived though.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
People don't HAVE TO fight!
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
then BE the change you want to see in the world!
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
You guys are so funny.
[/sarcasm]
type #33
but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)
Ok, it can wait. Bon appétit.
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
Bring it. After lunch, of course.
type #33
but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)
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