Difficulty and distance in socializing with INTps

[XoX]

wow thats crazy... i feel like i do that kind of but in a different way with my + I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want which makes it really easy for us to manipulate others (hence one of the reasons we're known as the politician)... I'm sure you guys could probably use your powers to manipulate as well.... btw, I'm not endorsing manipulation but it can happen... sometimes unconsciously...

I wonder if most psychics are INTp or INFp with the is so powerful..

Are you sure you are not ENFp?

[leckysupport]

wow thats crazy... i feel like i do that kind of but in a different way with my + I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want which makes it really easy for us to manipulate others (hence one of the reasons we're known as the politician)... I'm sure you guys could probably use your powers to manipulate as well.... btw, I'm not endorsing manipulation but it can happen... sometimes unconsciously...

I wonder if most psychics are INTp or INFp with the is so powerful..

Are you sure you are not ENFp?

"I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want" = .

Desires.

[XoX]

wow thats crazy... i feel like i do that kind of but in a different way with my + I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want which makes it really easy for us to manipulate others (hence one of the reasons we're known as the politician)... I'm sure you guys could probably use your powers to manipulate as well.... btw, I'm not endorsing manipulation but it can happen... sometimes unconsciously...

I wonder if most psychics are INTp or INFp with the is so powerful..

Are you sure you are not ENFp?

"I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want" = .

Desires.

Hmm..sounds a bit shallow even if kind of logical. And ENFps can't what other people want? I wonder what are the main differences on how ENFps and ESFps use and look "inside" people.

[leckysupport]

wow thats crazy... i feel like i do that kind of but in a different way with my + I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want which makes it really easy for us to manipulate others (hence one of the reasons we're known as the politician)... I'm sure you guys could probably use your powers to manipulate as well.... btw, I'm not endorsing manipulation but it can happen... sometimes unconsciously...

I wonder if most psychics are INTp or INFp with the is so powerful..

Are you sure you are not ENFp?

"I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want" = .

Desires.

Hmm..sounds a bit shallow even if kind of logical. And ENFps can't what other people want? I wonder what are the main differences on how ENFps and ESFps use and look "inside" people.

focuses on motivations and underlying reasons for actions, things which are not so concrete and obvious. focuses on what people desire as in concrete and obvious needs. And just so types don't get to carried away with themselves 'underlying' doesn't always mean the reasons actually exsit.

[liveandletlive]

yeah what he said... yeah im definitely unequivocably esfp

[XoX]

Well, ok

About socializing with ILIs. During last week I have had the opportunity to socialize with a person I think is Fe subtype ESFj and a person who is Ni subtype INTp. The Ni-INTp was really charming. The Fe-ESFj was absolutely annoying.

The Ni-INTp was a really awesome person who I have absolutely no problems discussing with. Actually we discussed about various topics with increasing sense of liking each other. He is just great. Although a bit bad at taking initiatives Actually he made me become way more initiative taking than I usually am as it was easy to sense when I should take the initiative and when not. He made is so clear on times that he is not going to take the initiative and someone else SHOULD take it or nothing happens. So it was very easy and natural for me to take the initiative. With my wife I have adjusted myself a lot to her initiative taking nature. So much that often I naturally let her do the initiative taking in many matters should I want to avoid an argument about it. It seems to depend a lot who you interact with how your personality comes out as. At least in my case as I tend to adapt to whom I interact with.

However, I could say that you can't converse with a Fe-ESFj. Much less than with an INTp. They just push all that emotion at you and can't seem to focus at all on anything but their emotions. I just cannot talk or interact with them at all. I can only watch their emotions running around wild. It can be entertaining for a second but as soon as you realize they are like that 24 hours a day and they will never stop and listen to you it gets annoying.

I would also say that for me Ni-INTp is a better match than Te-INTp. Also Si-ESFj I can handle MUCH better than Fe-ESFj. This experience also made me seriously doubt I could be any Fe-quadra type despite all the evidence people have been pouring at me. The preference for INTp > ESFj was so clear. I guess some Beta types might see things this way. Especially Ni-INFp I suppose.

[liveandletlive]

I definitely agree- ESFjs piss me off like no other... i wud look into the gamma quadra if you got along with the INTp (no offense to INTp's but) it kinda says sumthing in the fact that you got along with them lol

[Warlord]

The main reason why I don't socialize, is simply because I don't want to constantly explain why I don't drink.

Wich of course to other people makes me worse enemy of society than Osama Bin Laden. I mean at least "he has religious reasons not to".

So it's just me and Adolf ******.

[Warlord]

i wud look into the gamma quadra if you got along with the INTp (no offense to INTp's but) it kinda says sumthing in the fact that you got along with them lol

Not necessarily. There are INTp's that are hard to get along with. But usually it's easy to get along with INTp's for people of any quadras. INTp's are normally likeable to everyone, once people just talk with them. Assuming that the INTp wants to be liked. It's just forming a deeper connection that's difficult, and this can start to annoy other people. So sometimes it might be that people like the INTp more than the INTp feels he is liked. But then again sometimes I feel that people like me too much. But when people of other quadras know the INTp better, then the Gamma values start to show up, wich of course annoys people of other quadras.

[Megan]

I think quite a few people to put it mildly find it difficult to socialise with INTps. I am going to steal the words of a previous poster to describe the INTp that I most in contact with (because I live with him)and those words are hateful and materialistic(yet not overly ambitious either). I am actually very pleased that he is so solitary and stays by himself as I find him rather impulsive and aggressive. He is really laid back most times but sometimes he becomes "activated" and that is when he is at his most damaging. He shouts at people for the simpliest reasons at those times and his behavior just makes to sense to me in general and serves to keep people observing him away. Then he returns to an almost benign state and acts as if he never did anything offensive and that relations have not changed. I keep hoping that he will realise that most people probably are not expecting him to go to the extreme and be nice and sugary sweet or even sociable...just neutral, non-aggressive and vaguely civil on a consistent basis.

On the positive side, he is very quiet and calm normally and not constantly in others' face being nagging, emotionally demanding or annoying, some people find it easier to socialize with others who are like that. Even though he is so unpleasant seeming, he has a small circle of friends who he really cares for and who cares for him and he is good at maintaining those friendships and he does socializes with them quite often. For some reason I find it kind of hard to dislike him even though I avoid his company actively and consciously.

[liveandletlive]

The main reason why I don't socialize, is simply because I don't want to constantly explain why I don't drink.

Wich of course to other people makes me worse enemy of society than Osama Bin Laden. I mean at least "he has religious reasons not to".

So it's just me and Adolf ******.

I don't know the reasons why you are opposed to drinking but maybe just as an experiment go out and get hammered one night (a very thing to do) and see what happens... at the very least at least you could say you tried it and the experience will just reinforce what you previously felt.

[liveandletlive]

i wud look into the gamma quadra if you got along with the INTp (no offense to INTp's but) it kinda says sumthing in the fact that you got along with them lol

Assuming that the INTp wants to be liked. It's just forming a deeper connection that's difficult, and this can start to annoy other people. So sometimes it might be that people like the INTp more than the INTp feels he is liked. But then again sometimes I feel that people like me too much. But when people of other quadras know the INTp better, then the Gamma values start to show up, wich of course annoys people of other quadras.

I feel the same way about myself haha duals are cool

[liveandletlive]

I think quite a few people to put it mildly find it difficult to socialise with INTps. I am going to steal the words of a previous poster to describe the INTp that I most in contact with (because I live with him)and those words are hateful and materialistic(yet not overly ambitious either). I am actually very pleased that he is so solitary and stays by himself as I find him rather impulsive and aggressive. He is really laid back most times but sometimes he becomes "activated" and that is when he is at his most damaging. He shouts at people for the simpliest reasons at those times and his behavior just makes to sense to me in general and serves to keep people observing him away. Then he returns to an almost benign state and acts as if he never did anything offensive and that relations have not changed. I keep hoping that he will realise that most people probably are not expecting him to go to the extreme and be nice and sugary sweet or even sociable...just neutral, non-aggressive and vaguely civil on a consistent basis.

On the positive side, he is very quiet and calm normally and not constantly in others' face being nagging, emotionally demanding or annoying, some people find it easier to socialize with others who are like that. Even though he is so unpleasant seeming, he has a small circle of friends who he really cares for and who cares for him and he is good at maintaining those friendships and he does socializes with them quite often. For some reason I find it kind of hard to dislike him even though I avoid his company actively and consciously.

aww the poor guy's just trying to protect his hidden agenda... you probably find it hard to dislike him because:

a) you both share as the primary function (if you're INFp socionics which = INFJ MBTI)

b) he does achieve his hidden agenda shows that he cares every once and a while which makes up for the shittyness

c) he's demanding of others because he's demanding of himself and he critiques out of love- he just wants it all (the situation, the individual, etc.) to be better, to improve and to reach this end you have to learn your mistakes ( + )

d) all in all you know he loves you and it means the world to him that you put up with his crap and love him too

[Warlord]

The main reason why I don't socialize, is simply because I don't want to constantly explain why I don't drink.

Wich of course to other people makes me worse enemy of society than Osama Bin Laden. I mean at least "he has religious reasons not to".

So it's just me and Adolf ******.

I don't know the reasons why you are opposed to drinking but maybe just as an experiment go out and get hammered one night (a very thing to do) and see what happens... at the very least at least you could say you tried it and the experience will just reinforce what you previously felt.

I know what happens, it destroys my braincells

[implied]

I think quite a few people to put it mildly find it difficult to socialise with INTps. I am going to steal the words of a previous poster to describe the INTp that I most in contact with (because I live with him)and those words are hateful and materialistic(yet not overly ambitious either). I am actually very pleased that he is so solitary and stays by himself as I find him rather impulsive and aggressive. He is really laid back most times but sometimes he becomes "activated" and that is when he is at his most damaging. He shouts at people for the simpliest reasons at those times and his behavior just makes to sense to me in general and serves to keep people observing him away. Then he returns to an almost benign state and acts as if he never did anything offensive and that relations have not changed. I keep hoping that he will realise that most people probably are not expecting him to go to the extreme and be nice and sugary sweet or even sociable...just neutral, non-aggressive and vaguely civil on a consistent basis.

On the positive side, he is very quiet and calm normally and not constantly in others' face being nagging, emotionally demanding or annoying, some people find it easier to socialize with others who are like that. Even though he is so unpleasant seeming, he has a small circle of friends who he really cares for and who cares for him and he is good at maintaining those friendships and he does socializes with them quite often. For some reason I find it kind of hard to dislike him even though I avoid his company actively and consciously.

aww the poor guy's just trying to protect his hidden agenda... you probably find it hard to dislike him because:

a) you both share as the primary function (if you're INFp socionics which = INFJ MBTI)

b) he does achieve his hidden agenda shows that he cares every once and a while which makes up for the shittyness

c) he's demanding of others because he's demanding of himself and he critiques out of love- he just wants it all (the situation, the individual, etc.) to be better, to improve and to reach this end you have to learn your mistakes ( + )

d) all in all you know he loves you and it means the world to him that you put up with his crap and love him too

you EXFps make everyone sound awesome.

[Warlord]

d) all in all you know he loves you and it means the world to him that you put up with his crap and love him too

I think the guy is her brother or something like that. If he's teenager, he probably improves when he gets older. And people take their relatives for granted. So his behaviour is probably worse than usual.

First dominants tell INTp's to open up and show their emotions. And when the INTp does dominants tell that INTp is "impulsive and aggressive". Damned if you do, damned if you don't

When I get angry it's almost always because the other person insists on being stupid. "Stubborn and stupid" is like the worst crime I can imagine

[FDG]

c) he's demanding of others because he's demanding of himself and he critiques out of love- he just wants it all (the situation, the individual, etc.) to be better, to improve and to reach this end you have to learn your mistakes ( + )

Sorry for the topic diversion, but I never understood this kind of "love"? Being demanding for improving?

[liveandletlive]

c) he's demanding of others because he's demanding of himself and he critiques out of love- he just wants it all (the situation, the individual, etc.) to be better, to improve and to reach this end you have to learn your mistakes ( + )

Sorry for the topic diversion, but I never understood this kind of "love"? Being demanding for improving?

Yes, if you love someone don't you want to help them improve themselves? at least thats where the & come into play....

[XoX]

d) all in all you know he loves you and it means the world to him that you put up with his crap and love him too

I think the guy is her brother or something like that. If he's teenager, he probably improves when he gets older. And people take their relatives for granted. So his behaviour is probably worse than usual.

First dominants tell INTp's to open up and show their emotions. And when the INTp does dominants tell that INTp is "impulsive and aggressive". Damned if you do, damned if you don't

When I get angry it's almost always because the other person insists on being stupid. "Stubborn and stupid" is like the worst crime I can imagine

I think INTps are fun the way they are. Occasionally they can become a bit too grumpy and blunt for no real reason though. I also am often a bit worried whether I am being a bit too intrusive. I just found out that such an introverted person makes me a lot more extroverted and social. So I kind of like to hang around the INTp I talked about previously and I think the INTp generally likes that.

However occasionally I get the feeling that I'm initiating too much and then I backoff. I'm kind of scared of being too initiative taking. I don't perceive anything which suggests this but I just can get a bit too far I think (my own opinion). There are some people who I work with who get annoyed when I ask too much questions or generally initiate them too much during the day. Damn, I think I'm extrovert as I tend to harass people at workplace a lot, lol. I go asking them a lot of questions and some of them just tell me to "go fucking use the Google". But the INTp I was talking about has at least so far been really responsive to my questions and it often leads to longer constructive discussions where our "functional flow" seems to work ok and where at least I tend to get a lot of useful input.

Now this whole thing may sound funny as I have long claimed to be INTp myself, heh. I am "INTp-like" in the sense that I can be pretty silent and socially awkward in many situations especially among strangers and also because I have a lot of problems closing the psychological distance before I learn to trust people. I am also quite skeptical, critical and perfectionistic often. However when I'm in a good mood and start to know the people better I'm become lot more active and quite initiative taking. It doesn't seem like INTps do that. They are always INTps.

[XoX]

c) he's demanding of others because he's demanding of himself and he critiques out of love- he just wants it all (the situation, the individual, etc.) to be better, to improve and to reach this end you have to learn your mistakes ( + )

Sorry for the topic diversion, but I never understood this kind of "love"? Being demanding for improving?

Yes, if you love someone don't you want to help them improve themselves? at least thats where the & come into play....

Yes. I always teach women how to change car tires instead of changing tires for them. This way they can improve their skills!

[XoX]

But to ILIs and all who know about ILIs: Do ILIs get annoyed if someone gives them too much attention or can they take it all and like it? I guess this depends on the kind of attention but in general. DO they always clearly show when they have "had enough" or do they just silently think "he is being too intrusive and initiative taking...I hate him...".

[liveandletlive]

My ILI-ish social ineptitude from yesterday... (sorry so long... I tend to be wordy)

So yesterday, I went to this work event thingy over lunch. I didn't really want to go of course--these things are never my cup of tea. It was moderately boring so I'm not going to share all of the boring details.

I didn't feel completely comfortable around a lot of people who I didn't know, who were either not in my age group, or way too formal for comfort--I wished we could all just be natural, not in these formal work facades. And as usual I looked like I was dressed in pajamas... I swear I was the worse-dressed one there (I checked)... And I often feel like people are "judging" me for being too casual. But I just don't feel right being anything else. Anyway, I voiced my shyness to my work group a few times, in an overly exaggerated way (to hide that it's real)... and then they pretty much told me that they've never thought social ineptitude is one of my problems, so they weren't going to help me out... Oh how I have them all fooled. (just kidding ) But I didn't really, in all honesty, know what to do... I mean there were a great many unexciting conversations going on... everyone was standing up, even though there were tables about that they could sit at and make things a little less collectively awkward. There was this atmosphere of nervousness and awkwardness (no one really knew what they "should" be doing... human lemmings). I tried to find ways to amuse myself by people watching. It's not that everyone there was boring, but that we were all conspiring to be boring together... or something.

A little later my co-workers and I were talking to some guy about our "database." I was only half-listening, as there is no topic more boring than our database. Then I noticed this guy by the buffet table. He was older and had this sort of formal, rigid, uncomfortable way about him. At first I felt I wanted to include him in our group because he looked so uncomfortable and didn't know what to do around all these people... I didn't want him to feel unwelcome like that--the "gathering" was hardly worthy of making people feel self-conscious. There was this moment of eye contact between us and then he started heading to our group, and tried to greet us when he wasn't close enough for anyone to hear him or even look up... Somewhere around this time I got scared... because I thought talking to him would make *me* feel uncomfortable... because somehow I was a source of confidence for him, but I'm not strong enough to give others strength. I was afraid of whatever image I had taken in his mind... that it was an image that isn't me... a self I cannot be. I started wanting to avoid him, so I turned my eyes down the next time he looked at me (as though to deny or disavow everything that had just happened, so he'd leave). Whatever welcoming and confident look that had been in my eyes before, was now gone. Then he was gone. I felt bad after this and watched him move through the people... I considered going after him. He seemed to find a different group of people and seemed to be talking with them, but in this way where he was trying to pretend not to be uncomfortable, though it seemed he still was. I let it go, relieved that I didn't have to talk to him (i.e. that I didn't have to reveal myself).

I then pondered over my fear, but couldn't find a reason for it. It leads to this sad feeling... where I wonder what is so important... why do I do this sort of thing? What does it mean? In part it's because I can understand and do tend to be empathetic, but it only goes so far... I may understand, but that isn't enough to be of any help... I only have inner confidence about me, my world, my life... but I don't have the sort of confidence that others can borrow and draw strength from... I know that kind of confidence (or ego strength) as I have borrowed it from others before... but I don't seem to have any of that sort to lend. And until I do I will always be incomplete. One half of the equation is there; but the other is missing. Beneath the "guy's" rigidness was kindness. But I didn't know how to connect with what is inside, trying to get through the brambles of what is on the outside. For this reason, I often feel separate. As though I only watch but do not participate.

*hug*

[reyn_til_runa]

But to ILIs and all who know about ILIs: Do ILIs get annoyed if someone gives them too much attention or can they take it all and like it? I guess this depends on the kind of attention but in general. DO they always clearly show when they have "had enough" or do they just silently think "he is being too intrusive and initiative taking...I hate him...".

you're right, definitely depends on the kind of attention.

i'm not sure about other ILIs, but i am not really passive aggressive. if someone's being intrusive, i leave. if someone hugs me and i don't want to be hugged, i recoil, even though i try to remember not to (as it seems to give a general impression of being disgusted with someone when it may just be that my skin is hot or i just hugged my grandma five minutes ago). i will not make a spectacle of myself if i can help it, so generally will go along with some degree of attention if it makes sense given what they know about me. for example, if person A only knew me in the context of class where i only wore sweats, and one day sees me at a wedding, she would be apt to compliment my dress/appearance because it is so different.

perhaps the only acceptable kind of attention is the kind that ultimately amplifies something or someone else. i don't mind being propped up on occasion to temporarily shed light on something greater if i am relevant to that something, but i can't stay in the spotlight for too long. it's draining to feel that eyes are on you all the time. sometimes i hate compliments because they snowball. i don't think i'd mind succinct compliments on occasion, but people are over the top. and i will never understand why people get so upset when people don't like their food, clothes, etc. my mom tends to apologize for bad fruit, tv dinners that come out wrong, some wool shirt making me itchy. what a waste. feel bad for what you actually had a part in ruining and, for the rest, just nod your head.

i think that specific compliments are most often more comfortably received than vague, sprawling ones. if you like something particular about my dress, you don't have to like me too. legitimate compliments shouldn't have to progress to the point of being sap. why should an interest in a dress engender interest in the person wearing it? we are used to this concept of telling people they look good for what they wear, or that they seem "so much happier /healthier now" by a noticeable weight loss or a new fake tan. my point is that it means nothing to me. compliment my dress and if you run into the designer one day, worship him. do not assume that because i am wearing a fabulous dress i want to be called fabulous.

if you compliment my work, i can see why you compliment me too, but sometimes it's unnecessary. compliment my work and put it to use. if i see that my work is not wasted, i will automatically assume that it was appreciated. don't forget i created it, but don't dwell on it. there are bound to be mistakes. if you really want to give me attention, make sure you know me well enough. several times, i have lashed out at my mother for "innocently" talking about me to her friends. inevitably, they start praising me for things so irrelevant to the real progression in my life. for example, tell a person who hates music yet plays an instrument well, that you can see their hidden passion for music. when the direction of my life is so completely different from what is being reported / praised as the obvious direction, i can't help but think supporting each other is nothing more than a ritual. say no to empty praise.

[XoX]

But to ILIs and all who know about ILIs: Do ILIs get annoyed if someone gives them too much attention or can they take it all and like it? I guess this depends on the kind of attention but in general. DO they always clearly show when they have "had enough" or do they just silently think "he is being too intrusive and initiative taking...I hate him...".

you're right, definitely depends on the kind of attention.

I'm having some problems formulating what kind of attention I give...I have to try later...

Anyways I never compliment anyone so no worries about that If I do it has to be a very extraordinary situation and I have to be in a very extra ordinary mood. I'm more likely to tease about something than to compliment about something. I could make a joke out of a compliment though. Like I kind of want to compliment but my body just don't let me so I make a rather personal teaser-joke which certain people correctly understand as compliment but many don't, heh. My compliments are very often indirect. I don't usually want people to compliment me either. It makes the atmosphere too formal somehow.

I don't recall ever hugging anyone really (unless they initiate it of course). Instead I more likely slap or push or bite people if I want to show physical attention (lol). Hard to do that with strangers though. I have some problems showing too "soft" physical attention. It also kind of bores me.

But generally my interaction style is rather direct and very informal and I leave all kinds of compliments and hugs and introductions and that kind of things out of the picture. I usually just pick a target and jump to whatever topic is on my mind. At workplace I often have questions in my mind and I usually know a right person who can answer them. So I just go there and ask them (unless I have a shy day). Some people like it, many people think I should not bother them with so many questions as they don't want to act as my personal answering machine. ILIs tend to like it when they can show their knowledge unless they are in the middle of something very important.

The thing is that after I have picked a proper target for my attention I tend to want to "over initiate" them and I have to be careful and watch when they start to get bored. I think a rather introverted person who is not too "schizoid" but instead wants and can take a lot of attention could fit me ok in functional sense. Then again sometimes I distance myself from other people for quite a long time to do my stuff so someone who is too needy wouldn't fit me well. I do have periods of rather introverted behavior followed by more extroverted behavior. I really type myself differently depending on my mood . Urgh. This week I have been extremely active. And I still am, heh.

Umm...I forgot what was the original point of this message.

[mike_INTJ]

But to ILIs and all who know about ILIs: Do ILIs get annoyed if someone gives them too much attention or can they take it all and like it? I guess this depends on the kind of attention but in general. DO they always clearly show when they have "had enough" or do they just silently think "he is being too intrusive and initiative taking...I hate him...".

it depends on the attention. if it's a pretty girl, sure i'll like that. but all the while i will try to figure out their angle. not many talk to me, and when they do, it's usually because they want something. so while they are talking i'm analyzing.

overall it's very rare for someone to engage in dialog. most people will only talk to you if you insert a compliment in their direction. from there they launch into meaningless blather about the said object that you pointed out them. it's one of the reasons i don't compliment - i'll do it if i want a discussion. and like wise if someone compliments me, they usually want something, so the words are totally meaningless.

usually you'll know if i had enough when i space off or just simply end the conversation. a "well anyway..." or something like that usually stops it, as i walk away.