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Thread: Discussion of Si PoLR in LIEs-ENTjs

  1. #121
    Searching Lady Lunacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    it turns out this person is really quite nice. Supervision can be v cool. All ITR are precious really
    Absolutely. Outside of the typology community, my experiences with SLEs are completely different. The main difference is that rather than Fi-bashing and embracing their PoLR, the (older, more mature ones, at least) are capable of realizing it's their own flaw and they need to improve. I love SLEs, though, and appreciate several things about them. I don't think I've met anyone who was my supervisor in RL/outside of typology communities, so...can't say there.
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    A few things in my case that probably haven't been mentioned:

    - Lack of a sense of belonging to "groups" such as family, or a nationality or patriotic sentiment. You just develop agency towards whathever you "like" (Fi DS) or "makes sense" (Te),

    - Strange relation to your body, as if you didn't have a "material" nature. Like it was just a thing that hangs from your head. Notices but can ignore bodily signals such as pain.

    - Dislike of sexual interchange unless really motivated (i.e in love), especially kissing (tolerates hugs better though). Other people cause feelings of ickyness generally.

    - Spartan nature. Requires very little.

    - Self-referential sense pertaining aesthetics almost absent.
    Last edited by roger557; 01-13-2022 at 04:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroplasticity View Post
    Absolutely. Outside of the typology community, my experiences with SLEs are completely different. The main difference is that rather than Fi-bashing and embracing their PoLR, the (older, more mature ones, at least) are capable of realizing it's their own flaw and they need to improve. I love SLEs, though, and appreciate several things about them. I don't think I've met anyone who was my supervisor in RL/outside of typology communities, so...can't say there.
    hmm..it’s confusing. She is nice but she does seem a bit obsessed with wanting to be my friend, maybe outside of work as well as at work. That I do not appreciate, but maybe if I just ignore it she’ll stop. I think it also might just be time to move jobs.

    I had a better dynamic with the other LIEs I mentioned earlier. I truly admire the lady who runs my writing group, she has a very sweet side. Recently I’ve worked closely with two (LIEs) who have really bothered me. I think my bosses are hiring different kinds of people atm..

    I don’t know if I would have tolerated these people better in the past. Either way, I have to now. I had to tell the young LIE male off recently..maybe when you’ve been somewhere a few years the chances simply increase that you’ll work with someone a bit challenging and make you want to leave/progress

    ok this is going way off topic now but..

    I get paranoid that with some people you can get into a sort of faux supervision dynamic with people who aren’t your supervisor/supervisee. I really don’t like the thought of someone seeing me as a supervisor..even if they admire me partially.
    Last edited by Bethany; 01-16-2022 at 10:03 AM.

  4. #124
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I swear this is a joke my mate would make ha.
    I purposefully put on my ILE silly hat. ...It makes me look like a wizard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    maybe you have a good handle on some si stuff too?
    Seeing my room would cause any Si-user to hopelessly despair; piles of piper stacked on my coffee table and notes lying everywhere on my desk. Multiple computers and screens put in a corner, and solar system posters rolled up for years, instead of hung onto the wall. Only my bookshelf is orderly, whereas everything else I'll take care of "when nothing important is going on"... Some of those paper piles are from high-school still.
    I'm actually considering to take a gap year after my statistics master, so I can clean up, but also to conduct one of the university's faculty improvement projects and to apply for chairmanship of the sustainability committee. ... At the end of that year I probably have done a good job at the latter two, but have barely thrown away half a pile of papers, LOL. #Self-Awareness #Priorities #Si-polr

    At least my room is still livable and not as bad as that one LII professor. Jolly guy, but he can't turn around in his own office or everyone in there will be flooded with a tsunami of notes, papers, and books. It's a wonder he can find anything in there, but he actually knows where everything's at. And he sure does a better job at finding his stuff than his LIE-Te neighbour, who despite ordering and archiving everything, cannot find the papers I handed him last week even if his life depended on it.

  5. #125
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I purposefully put on my ILE silly hat. ...It makes me look like a wizard.


    Seeing my room would cause any Si-user to hopelessly despair; piles of piper stacked on my coffee table and notes lying everywhere on my desk. Multiple computers and screens put in a corner, and solar system posters rolled up for years, instead of hung onto the wall. Only my bookshelf is orderly, whereas everything else I'll take care of "when nothing important is going on"... Some of those paper piles are from high-school still.
    I'm actually considering to take a gap year after my statistics master, so I can clean up, but also to conduct one of the university's faculty improvement projects and to apply for chairmanship of the sustainability committee. ... At the end of that year I probably have done a good job at the latter two, but have barely thrown away half a pile of papers, LOL. #Self-Awareness #Priorities #Si-polr

    At least my room is still livable and not as bad as that one LII professor. Jolly guy, but he can't turn around in his own office or everyone in there will be flooded with a tsunami of notes, papers, and books. It's a wonder he can find anything in there, but he actually knows where everything's at. And he sure does a better job at finding his stuff than his LIE-Te neighbour, who despite ordering and archiving everything, cannot find the papers I handed him last week even if his life depended on it.
    @Armitage, my room was similar to yours until I hired an ESI to redecorate. She threw out everything; papers, clothes, furniture, and bed, and bought new, according to her taste, and now the place looks great and I feel as if my mind is unburdened.

    Try it. It worked for me.

  6. #126
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    @Adam Strange, I wish I could hire an ESI to do so for me too, yet as a student I have to hold my own pants up, because I don't earn the money yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    @Adam Strange, I wish I could hire an ESI to do so for me too, yet as a student I have to hold my own pants up, because I don't earn the money yet.

    Yes, not having money is a huge impediment to personal progress. I've been there. In many ways, I'm still there, although "lack of money" in my case has been superseded by "lack of moral content and motivation", which can be equally debilitating.

    One thing you might want to consider to get access to more money is to find investors, but that requires a high level of commitment to something. However, if anyone in the socion is suited to finding investors, it's LIEs.

    If you don't know how to do this, then join a business development firm. They will quickly teach you what you need to know.
    I wish I had done that, rather than trying to lift myself by my bootstraps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Bethany, I've dated a few IEIs and I think THEY are very cool, and two of them were talking LTR with a potential contract.

    BUT, I married my Supervisor and after a few years, found that there were some significant problems. I also have a beloved IEI cousin whom I grew up with. I love her dearly, but I can't hang out with her for very long because my Te hurts her.

    Long term, Supervision turns into one-sided Conflict. Apartness is the medicine.
    Yeah I can’t be around my mum and dad when they’re arguing. I can’t tell who suffers more though. The person who’s learned to tune out the shouting or the person doing the shouting..I think with some LIE friends there is a natural boundary, you both understand. But with some LIEs I just end up clashing with them even if we’re both trying to be nice.
    Last edited by Bethany; 01-17-2022 at 08:20 AM.

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    @Armitage I just found an envelope of cash I had misplaced in my house. Hurray. I was starting to think it was gone..I am also a little messy but try to keep it to a minimum. I don’t know how people have the time/energy to cook, clean and organise things haha. I think I am starting to get allergies and it’s not cool..now I basically need a partner so they can share the cleaning load with me lol Or at least make me feel like there is more of a point to doing them, I think I care more if it’s for someone else too..

    On a serious note when I was 17/18 my tiny bedroom had random stuff all over the floor and I remember looking at it thinking I like the chaos, it’s how I feel inside. I don’t think the thought was that clear/conscious but I remember thinking it felt right. My ESE mum just shouted and didn’t realise that a room that messy is quite likely an early sign of depression, considering I’d always been reasonably tidy before.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Armitage I just found an envelope of cash I had misplaced in my house. Hurray. I was starting to think it was gone..I am also a little messy but try to keep it to a minimum. I don’t know how people have the time/energy to cook, clean and organise things haha. I think I am starting to get allergies and it’s not cool..now I basically need a partner so they can share the cleaning load with me lol Or at least make me feel like there is more of a point to doing them, I think I care more if it’s for someone else too..

    On a serious note when I was 17/18 my tiny bedroom had random stuff all over the floor and I remember looking at it thinking I like the chaos, it’s how I feel inside. I don’t think the thought was that clear/conscious but I remember thinking it felt right. My ESE mum just shouted and didn’t realise that a room that messy is quite likely an early sign of depression, considering I’d always been reasonably tidy before.
    @Bethany, I agree with you regarding messy rooms and depression. I think it works both ways. A depressed person can feel overwhelmed and can’t clean their room, and a messy room can quickly deplete one’s mental energy and can cause depression.

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    @Adam Strange yeah poor mental health is such a trap. And yep, and in all my years living alone I’ve got better at organising my living space but cooking/ house improvements were always very low priority. I didn’t have a lot of money or energy for buying ‘things’ and didn’t feel a huge need for my place to look pretty. Mostly I couldn’t envision how much nicer it could look or realise the impact it would have on my mind. It’s looking much more normal these days..learning about socionics made me realise how important it is to nourish all parts of your brain, even if it doesn’t feel important. Your brain is taking in info all the time, and good info is better than bad info. A nice living space sends a message of security and pride to your brain, for example, security being the more important. With just a little more imagination it looks much nicer. But when you’re so used to focusing your imagination in other areas (escapism in TV, books, art) you forget how to apply it to normal areas of your life. You forget that having a nice physical space actually enhances your appreciation of art and life, with just a little effort, because you feel more involved in the world. I’m tired so I hope I’m not chatting rubbish but that’s another thing si thing I’m trying to find the right level of caring about/not caring

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange yeah poor mental health is such a trap. And yep, and in all my years living alone I’ve got better at organising my living space but cooking/ house improvements were always very low priority. I didn’t have a lot of money or energy for buying ‘things’ and didn’t feel a huge need for my place to look pretty. Mostly I couldn’t envision how much nicer it could look or realise the impact it would have on my mind. It’s looking much more normal these days..learning about socionics made me realise how important it is to nourish all parts of your brain, even if it doesn’t feel important. Your brain is taking in info all the time, and good info is better than bad info. A nice living space sends a message of security and pride to your brain, for example, security being the more important. With just a little more imagination it looks much nicer. But when you’re so used to focusing your imagination in other areas (escapism in TV, books, art) you forget how to apply it to normal areas of your life. You forget that having a nice physical space actually enhances your appreciation of art and life, with just a little effort, because you feel more involved in the world. I’m tired so I hope I’m not chatting rubbish but that’s another thing si thing I’m trying to find the right level of caring about/not caring
    @Bethany, what you say is all true IMO and is very wise.

    An IEI once told me that "Balance" is the key. I think that a need for balance is why Duality is often very helpful.

    My house was a huge mess after years of living in a poorly-functioning marriage. My SLI ex-wife and I had both become hoarders during this time, and it took me hiring an ESI Dual to come in and throw stuff out before I could really get past that very difficult point of moving out of the clutter and into the clarity.

    I'm glad to hear that you're doing it, too.

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    Searching Lady Lunacy's Avatar
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    Lmao...the posts above reminded me...when I live with partners, it's always them asking me, "WHERE IS THE SUCH AND SUCH???" and I always know where everything is. I can recall these kinds of things in so much detail that I don't usually even go to the fridge or the pantry to look in there and decide what I want. I just close my eyes and recall what's there. Comes in handy at the grocery store, but sometimes not that feasible when you live with multiple people and you don't know whether the status of an item has changed since you last saw.
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

  14. #134
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    I might have mentioned this before.

    I have a few different kinds of drinking glasses. Some are plain, some are blown glass works of art, some are the products of Schott Glass Works, and some are old jelly glasses.

    Well, they aren’t actually jelly glasses. They used to hold Safe Harvest ^TM soups. I prefer them because they are the right size, are easy to clean, are durable, are locally re-used, and they are cheap.

    Recently the ESI-Se who is redecorating my house watched without comment as I drank water out of one of these glasses. (I almost alway offer guests a drink in a real glass.)
    A few days later, she was giving me a hard time for living like a bum and said “You drink out of soup glasses!” and laughed.

    She was probably just contrasting my life now with the life that she is planning for me, but that comment hurt and surprised me.
    It surprised me because she normally does not hurt me in any way, unlike most of the people on this planet. So I started wondering why I felt so hurt at her simple comment?

    It’s my Si-PoLR, of course.

    Now I need to figure out how to not hit her Ne-PoLR.

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    It's the inability to calm down or relax on my own...


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    One of our best customers decided that they wanted to visit my company to see the progress we were making on their project, so I asked some guys to clean the place up prior to their visit.
    An SLI stated that I was creating a Potemkin village.

    Damn it, he’s always right about this Si stuff. Nevertheless, we managed to impress our visitors.

    After asking for a long time, I finally got an LIE whom I know to give me a tour of his shop. It was pretty impressive, but halfway through, I suddenly realized that much of what I was seeing must have been arranged for me.

    Lol. It is impossible to hide things from Identicals.

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    With the urging of my 4D Si SLI son, and my 4D Si ESI interior decorator, I'm turning what was once a drafty, run-down house (my house) into a modern, comfortable place to live.
    When my LSE sister saw (before) pictures of the house, she said it looked like a crack house. No maintenance for decades, holes in the walls, disgusting carpets, etc. Now, it's headed towards being an architectural showcase, and the SLI and the ESI are eyeing the yard to turn it into some kind of beautiful outdoors safe place for relaxed social interactions.

    Personally, with my Si-PoLR, I have a hard time seeing much value in the transformation. Yes, maybe some other people like it, but I could care less, with two exceptions.
    One, the place actually is more comfortable and since there is less distraction from clutter and tasks to be done, I feel like I can make more efficient use of my time.
    Two, the resale value is going way up. Not that this will benefit me, since if I sold, I could only trade into a house of equal value, but I'm sure that someone will benefit.

  18. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    With the urging of my 4D Si SLI son, and my 4D Si ESI interior decorator, I'm turning what was once a drafty, run-down house (my house) into a modern, comfortable place to live.
    When my LSE sister saw (before) pictures of the house, she said it looked like a crack house. No maintenance for decades, holes in the walls, disgusting carpets, etc. Now, it's headed towards being an architectural showcase, and the SLI and the ESI are eyeing the yard to turn it into some kind of beautiful outdoors safe place for relaxed social interactions.

    Personally, with my Si-PoLR, I have a hard time seeing much value in the transformation. Yes, maybe some other people like it, but I could care less, with two exceptions.
    One, the place actually is more comfortable and since there is less distraction from clutter and tasks to be done, I feel like I can make more efficient use of my time.
    Two, the resale value is going way up. Not that this will benefit me, since if I sold, I could only trade into a house of equal value, but I'm sure that someone will benefit.
    I'm going to be honest, this made me dry heave, ugly cry and chain smoke at the same time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by VeryMuchPyretta View Post
    I'm going to be honest, this made me dry heave, ugly cry and chain smoke at the same time.
    It should have launched you into a soliloquy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It should have launched you into a soliloquy.
    Beware, a few more of those, and it might happen.


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    Quote Originally Posted by VeryMuchPyretta View Post
    Beware, a few more of those, and it might happen.
    Have you found an LSI yet? A stitch in time….

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It should have launched you into a soliloquy.
    You are expanding your lexicon, I see.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Have you found an LSI yet? A stitch in time….
    Fuck yes I did. He was also kind enough to hold my non-chain smoking hand, while I endured all that efficiency talk, disregarding the magic and importance that beautiful environments carry. Don't take me too seriously though.


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    So, a few years ago, I hopped off a machine that was about 20" high and managed to break all the metatarsals in my left foot. I didn't want to go to the hospital, but the ex insisted and I was in a cast for a few weeks.

    Last year, I slipped on the grass while running and severely damaged the cartilage in my left knee. I didn't want to go to the hospital, but eventually the fact that I couldn't walk across the room led me to physical therapy, and now the knee is 95% back to normal. I'm not running on it, though.

    Two days ago, I was walking across the living room, barefoot in the dark, and accidentally I kicked a furniture leg. Hard. I think I fractured my left toe, because, once again, I can't walk on that foot. And no, I don't want to go to the hospital to have it checked out.

    I'm definitely having some problems with repeatedly damaging parts of my left leg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange
    So, a few years ago, I hopped off a machine that was about 20" high and managed to break all the metatarsals in my left foot. I didn't want to go to the hospital, but the ex insisted and I was in a cast for a few weeks.

    Last year, I slipped on the grass while running and severely damaged the cartilage in my left knee. I didn't want to go to the hospital, but eventually the fact that I couldn't walk across the room led me to physical therapy, and now the knee is 95% back to normal. I'm not running on it, though.

    Two days ago, I was walking across the living room, barefoot in the dark, and accidentally I kicked a furniture leg. Hard. I think I fractured my left toe, because, once again, I can't walk on that foot. And no, I don't want to go to the hospital to have it checked out.

    I'm definitely having some problems with repeatedly damaging parts of my left leg.
    Evidently you need to replace it with an Adam-mantium prosthetic leg. You’ll never need to worry about left-limbed injuries again (and of course, you’ll have a new prototype to design and sell).

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    The Crucified Space Sheriff godslave's Avatar
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    Once (May 20th 1991) I fractured my 4th and 5th fingers (Metacarpal fractures) after I kinda lost it and punched a wall. The two bones popped out of their place (up) without tearing the skin of my hand. I immediately did a bone reduction by pushing them in with my left hand. I went to the hospital only three days latter and after seeing my X-Ray the doctor said that I needed surgery because the bones were not perfectly aligned. I never did that surgery (I was afraid) and my finger bones healed naturally.

  27. #147
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    The ESI-Se interior decorator shows up to work on my house in bursts. She might work intensively for two or three days, and then she disappears back into her own life for two or three weeks.

    What I've noticed is that, when she's here, the place gets cleaner and much better organized. When she's away, the place gets slightly more messy and disorganized, but it never falls to its previous level.

    I guess I can hold back the tides of Ne disorganization and Si-PoLR slovenliness for only so long, but there is constant attrition.

    I don't need much, but I'm pretty sure that I need an ESI in my life.

  28. #148
    Searching Lady Lunacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The ESI-Se interior decorator shows up to work on my house in bursts. She might work intensively for two or three days, and then she disappears back into her own life for two or three weeks.

    What I've noticed is that, when she's here, the place gets cleaner and much better organized. When she's away, the place gets slightly more messy and disorganized, but it never falls to its previous level.

    I guess I can hold back the tides of Ne disorganization and Si-PoLR slovenliness for only so long, but there is constant attrition.

    I don't need much, but I'm pretty sure that I need an ESI in my life.
    A heads-up: if/when you do get an ESI in your life, careful with ever trying to mess with those bursts of energy. Trying to schedule and structure those activities (in the same way you probably organize your own life) only stifles them. Imo it's important for ESIs to have the freedom to work in their bursts of energy, not on a schedule. Not understanding this can result in fights.
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

  29. #149
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lioness View Post
    A heads-up: if/when you do get an ESI in your life, careful with ever trying to mess with those bursts of energy. Trying to schedule and structure those activities (in the same way you probably organize your own life) only stifles them.
    Thanks. I think you’re right.
    The ESI-Se interior decorator called me late today after a two week hiatus and said “Let’s work!” I told her that I’d like to, but I’m leaving tomorrow morning to go out of town for a week.
    She said “Oh.”
    I could just hear the wheels coming off the bus.

    Well, sorry. If you don’t plan ahead, your plans don’t always come together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Thanks. I think you’re right.
    She called me today after a two week hiatus and said “Let’s work!” I told her that I’d like to, but I’m going out of town for a week.
    She said “Oh.”
    I could just hear the wheels coming off the bus.
    Yyyep. It's better this way than trying to set her up for X and Y times, though, probably. At least with me, if I have to show up without having that energy burst in me, I'm just going to be in a shit mood and want to cancel and “break free” from the “constraints” on my time. Too restrictive. My ESI friend is this way as well.
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I admire Si users, but I can’t do Si myself.

    After years of pouring instant coffee into a paper cup and adding cold tap water to it and stirring it with my finger until most of the lumps dissolve and then gulping it down for the caffeine, I decided to up my game.

    I bought a French press (so no disposable filters) and a fancy ceramic burr (I’m a fan of ceramic tools) grinder and some imported beans and made myself a cup of coffee like those who have actual taste do.

    I can’t tell the difference from instant coffee, except it takes longer to prepare.

    I should just give up trying.
    I think this why is my weakness given what you describe. See, I can actually "grok" the difference between true instant coffee and how a "French Press" tastes. If you actually get how it all works a French Press is a quick and easy way to get some damn good coffee fast and cheap. Just gotta tell all the hipsters to fuck off.

    Like you've said elsewhere, us ILI's are absolute dicks to people upon our first meeting yet if they tank that emotional hit and proceed to shake our hand (as it were) they just made a friend for life. Not much an ILI won't do for those whom they consider a lover or a brother once you've convinced them that you're worthy of that title in their eyes...

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