Oh boy have I ever been in that position.Originally Posted by unefille
Oh boy have I ever been in that position.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
An ENFj talking about his conflictor.
I know that SLI is my conflictor, and in extreme cases in the past, especially when i was in grade school, I really hate this SLI for so many reason, I have fought with him maybe like 10 times in one year. I think we were both at fault, I found him to be cold, and tough, and even his natural demeanor pisses me off. I am also sure he hates me for me just being an ENFj. But over the years i have grown up, and gotten matured. I think that the SLI are not that bad people after all. I have even tried so much to try to get along with SLI in my life, which makes it worse, they hate my FE. That's why we are conflictor. But now that my brother-in-law is an ISTP, my sister is an INTj, I dont see him as the typical description of an lazy and cold person many would think of an SLI. He is ambitious, and quiet. I even rememeber my family was talking about politics one day, and he all of the sudden flares up, unlike his usually demeanor which was clam and quiet and he debated heatedly to me about politics. But beyond this, I sometimes even sneak into my sisters room in the past and read his love letters to my sister, which mostly contains FI description of how he feels about her. He is a good writer and his FI is sweet, I have to admit that. He loves my sister so much that his business. house and most of his asset are in my sister's name. For me however, I can never get closed with an SLI, I just cannot, the more FE I try the more they reject. My SLI brother in law try everything he can to get along with me with his weak Fi hidden agenda and I see that he tres his best to accept my Fe and response warmly with it, Most of the time, I ignore his Fi response towards me only because it is my ignoring functions. which afterward when i think about it, he really made a strong effort to be my brother-in-law. But I am willing to admit, Even I dont think i am as nice of a person deep inside than my SLI brother in law, Just so that we are completely different and how we show apprecation towards each other is accepted in a different way.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
If she'd quit trying so hard and stop caring so much, maybe that'd improve things. It would for me.
Aside from the line
I didn't really understand where mpiazza was being judgmental either. I thought he was just stating his observations of what the SLI seems like to him from the outside.I think that the SLI are not that bad people after all.
But generally with SLIs, I would think you should smile but don't laugh too much (tone your Fe down), be agreeable (less of a control freak), don't try too hard (less Fe again), don't try to be 'quirky' (Ni+Fe). I take naps around them. I find if I'm asleep and 'relaxing' I'm at my least 'offensive'. And talk about sound systems, or baking or healthy, wholesome activities you can do together, like hiking or fishing. Don't ever mention a designer brand, a famous person you know, or anything that could remotely be seen as 'name-dropping' and 'self-aggrandisement'. I don't know, IEEs do it to sometimes, but they seem to do it in a way that doesn't piss the SLIs off, whilst when I accidentally mention something like that, it's all 'you think you're so good, don't you??!' Talk less, generally. Less chance of making a mistake.
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3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
It would depend on the circumstances that I found myself in with the SLI.
I see them as very critical in a situation that involves some sort of hands on expertise - when I'm fooling around and making a mess, but you know, kind of enjoying making a mess - and they just finally seem to *snap* and jump in, without saying very much, and fixing it. In those situations I feel like grabbed a big rubber stamp that says: pathetically inept, stamped me with it and moved on.
Hardest thing about being around SLIs is learning to let go, because any attempts to 'correct their impression of you' is usually seen as somehow imposing via Fe. I just have to accept that they'll think whatever they think about me and I shouldn't be bothered with it. One of my seminar leaders this year was an SLI and I didn't think he was critical or judgmental, but unhelpful, because he wouldn't tell you whether you were going right or wrong, and so it was a 'surprise' when you got your final mark. I just find them difficult to engage because of their lack of engagement and generally, if I don't engage, things are more peaceful.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Instead of jumping in to “help” you in these situations, what would you prefer? Leaving you alone, asking whether you need help, ignoring your “struggle,” or something else?
This is interesting; it’s cool that you can articulate this so well. And even if you don’t particularly enjoy your interactions w SLI’s, at least you understand where we’re coming from, if only in an abstract way; I wish more EIE’s understood these things.Hardest thing about being around SLIs is learning to let go, because any attempts to 'correct their impression of you' is usually seen as somehow imposing via Fe. I just have to accept that they'll think whatever they think about me and I shouldn't be bothered with it. One of my seminar leaders this year was an SLI and I didn't think he was critical or judgmental, but unhelpful, because he wouldn't tell you whether you were going right or wrong, and so it was a 'surprise' when you got your final mark. I just find them difficult to engage because of their lack of engagement and generally, if I don't engage, things are more peaceful.
My experience w EIE’s seems to be the inverse of yours w SLI’s... which makes sense, haha.
I’ve given some thought to the way EIE’s perceive me. It feels like they are always hitting my PoLR, either by giving me “encouragement” to “cheer up” when in fact I feel just fine, or by making me feel that they [and maybe others, I begin to think] consider me an unkind person just because of the lack of external expression. But, I feel powerless to do anything about it. Unwilling as well as powerless, actually - partly because it would be really uncomfortable, and partly because I feel like even if I did try to liven up the way they seem to want I would fail and they would judge me even more.
Leaving me alone if possible without ignoring me. A lot of times I'm messing around - I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm probably making mistakes and doing it very inefficiently, but if I'm mucking around in it (if I'm giving it any attention at all), I've decided that I'm going to figure this out.
Things I don't mind include: making fun of the mess I'm making (levity is always appreciated and it gets the point across without making me seem like the biggest loser ever) and occasionally saying 'don't do X' -- but if only X is so bad that it's going to destroy whatever I'm doing.
Normally, if I need help and I'm comfortable with being helped, I'll ask for it. I have no compunctions with calling out 'HELP ME!' If I'm not asking, it's either because I think I've got a handle on things (or will have, soon) or I'm too embarrassed to ask because I feel pathetic. In the later case, it's still best to ignore me, unless me messing up will affect everyone, in which case, taking over is probably the only strategy. That's where things get tricky though: there are a lot of moments in an EIE's life when we're just too fucking stubborn and an intervention is necessary -- but we won't realise it at the time, or we will, but will ignore our better angels. We'll scream, yell, get angry, through a tantrum, you name it, we'll do it. I think that's probably just unavoidable sometimes. And when we cool down and get our thoughts clear, we will probably feel really bad and apologise profusely.
I think a lot of confusion comes about because Fi-quadra people look at these explosions and the quick apology and 'acting like nothing ever happened' as somewhat insane. And in return, it really hurts the EIE to have it held against them for 'all time' -- it's forgive and erase it altogether, or don't forgive at all. I actually would respect people who just decide NO, and cut me out altogether -- that would hurt me unbelievably, but I would understand it. It's more awful/incomprehensible for me if someone 'sort of' re-engages with me, but at the same makes it clear our relationship can't be the same again. I find that aggravating, I think.
That does make sense. I don't even realise when I'm using 'Fe' so I just feel like they're rejecting me -- my mood is just 'infectious'. Like, when I was first accused of being EIE (lol), I was like 'no....I suck at Fe.' It's really hard to pause and think I'm doing something that actively affects people's moods -- so it doesn't always click that I'm doing something that affects/makes the SLI uncomfortable. Being more conscious of my Fe has been an interesting experience.I’ve given some thought to the way EIE’s perceive me. It feels like they are always hitting my PoLR, either by giving me “encouragement” to “cheer up” when in fact I feel just fine, or by making me feel that they [and maybe others, I begin to think] consider me an unkind person just because of the lack of external expression. But, I feel powerless to do anything about it. Unwilling as well as powerless, actually - partly because it would be really uncomfortable, and partly because I feel like even if I did try to liven up the way they seem to want I would fail and they would judge me even more.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Hm. That's interesting. IRL you didn't come off as 'un-cheery' at all.either by giving me “encouragement” to “cheer up” when in fact I feel just fine
IEE
Well thank you; I'm glad. Maybe it's my weekly lunches w my ESFj aunt that have me brianwashed to think I come off as a "Debbie Downer" [her actual words to me yesterday]
Well, I don't think many people on this planet can compare to the cheeriness of an ESE. lol
IEE
I know what you're saying, and I don't find it insane. The only thing that I guess would be the real problem is if it's very recurring and there's no real effort to improve on this. I've had my own bouts of anger and screaming out of frustration (though not really frequent), so I know the feeling of wanting people to just look at it as a venting thing. But what is odd here is your impression that Delta quadra is exempt from acting crazy and angry because they value Fi... I have my own personal beliefs in terms of these things which to me are outside socionics though.
There was one moment in particular worth mentioning that I had with an SLI friend, and we were really close at one point I might add so this wasn't something between two strangers. I was under a lot of stress one week from many factors, and it was just steadily building, and he knew about this as well. So, I was talking to him online one night and he actually was trying to make me angry out of amusement by not answering to what I was writing (which he well knew that sort of thing pisses me off). That was the droplet that spilled the glass... I'm actually afraid of when I lose it, because it's something that I just go all-out on everybody, and it's very hard to calm myself down. Luckily, it happens maybe twice a year only. What made this situation worse for me is to have a friend lead me to this point of all people.
I'm also the type of person that likes to talk things out once and for all, or at least let the other person know what I'm feeling. So I call him up on the phone that night and leave him a voicemail along the lines of "what the fuck is your problem?" Not exactly among my proudest moments. Anyway, the next morning he tells me to chill out in a way that he was somehow "above this," which I would later consider that it's actually out of fear of these types of confrontations that he tries to project that attitude... Obviously, just telling me to "chill" does not help, unless someone wants to piss me off even further. What I didn't like was this attitude of being in almost complete disregard for any sort of emotional outburst, as if it was below him in a way. When I have an emotional outburst, or anyone for that matter, there is always something that is trying to be communicated.
But trust me on this, it's a lot better to communicate your problems than to keep silent and be nonconfrontational. I know this very well, even if supposedly Delta doesn't value Fe or Se.
I have to go now so I don't have time to review it much as I like doing
Bullocks. Ni+Fe is no quirkier than Ne+Fi (or Ne+Ti).
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
yeah, i found that one a bit off. however, the observation about not being a huge snob is probably accurate.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
But it is obviously different. And no EIE is going to be quirky in an IEE way, so it's easier just to not bother.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
I actually think that in specific ways and for specific reasons, Delta is more like to communicate or confront the issue. One of the major issues my LSE boss has with me is that I don't 'communicate' or 'confide' my 'problems (at work)' in him enough, so he cant possibly understand how things are going on and thus that makes him worry.
I'll elaborate on this and the fact that I think Fe+Se tempers are much more 'impressive/awful' in volume and different in substance when I get home. Have to ruuuuuun.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
They are going to be quirky in an NF way.
Is quirkiness something you intentionally "bother" to show?
And if there's something you need to know about SLI's it's that they don't appreciate too much pretense and they will always want you to be yourself, that is if you have a 'self' (which is something EIEs clearly lack in.)
Last edited by Park; 10-30-2008 at 12:27 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Yes, but only in the sense that everything is done with some 'intent'. What I meant is 'don't bother to show that facet of your personality', unless your self-esteem is strong enough to take negative reactions. You can chose what you reveal - and if you can't do it yet, you should learn. If I know someone is going to ridicule a particular part of my personality, I simply don't show that part unless I've decided I can take the ridicule.
If you think about it, that is an incredibly paradoxical sentiment - we just want you to be yourself; please stop acting like you do.And if there's something you need to know about SLI's it's that they don't appreciate too much pretense and they will always want you to be yourself, that is if you have a 'self' (which is something EIEs clearly lack in.
That's the problem - to be 'palatable' to SLIs (or other like-minded types), I have to conform to what their notion of 'someone being their own self without pretense is'. Where does this idea of 'me' come from? My theatricality, my mercurial modes, my shifting impressions -- that is me, without pretense. The EIE self is one of highly variable externalised behaviour. I'm not pretending to be someone else -- these are genuine reactions to my external environment. Being the 'self' that you somehow think we're 'not being' in favour of 'another self' would be pretense.
I say this because there was a time when being asked 'who the fuck are you? Just be yourself' would have been seriously debilitating and would have paralysed me mid-step. These days I'm more reconciled with who I am and my reaction is more along the lines of 'who the fuck are you do ask me that?' My behaviour hasn't changed; my attitude has.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
lol, I like that word. Palatable.
How about adapting(/shifting) your behaviour to those around(/depending on who you're with)? Giving people what they want to hear etc... Do you do that too?
Actors...
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
That's a very difficult question to answer for two reasons: 1. you're asking me to generalise my behaviour when my reactions are contextually situated and difficult to generalise without misrepresentation and 2. what may look like one thing to you might be another to me.
Very generally, I would say that I behave so as to minimise unnecessary friction/abrasiveness. Also that part of what I meant by 'genuine reactions to my external environment' involves changing my behaviour according to who I am near/what situation I am in. But it's me 'genuinely' responding to the circumstances as I perceive them. My reactions are still based in how I want to react to that situation/what I want to achieve out of it.
'Giving people what they want to hear' is also very vague, particularly because I can be highly contrary and/or frank and snide, which I think an ESE is less likely to be. I do adapt my responses to people, but it's done on a very internal and highly subjective calculus -- there is not constant effect (like making people happy/excited) that I am adjusting my behaviour to reproduce.
If you modelled my behaviour vis-a-vis an ESE for instance, I think ESE behaviour is much likely to be f(x, y) = C where x is the variable for your behaviour (the endogenous input) and y is the variable for the external environment (the exogenous input) and C is either a constant or a bounded variable; therefore, as there are only so many forms C can take, shifts in x are more limited and determined by y.
In contrast, EIE behaviour is more like f(x, y) = z, where z is an indeterminate variable. Since z can take an infinite number of forms, x responds to y, but the relationship between x and y is much less deterministic.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
ENFjs, what annoys you about ISTps [conflict relations]
Just curious if anyone has anything to say about this.
/ ISTp / SLI / 5w4 / 594 / sp/sx
/ Lunar 12-egram /
Just depends on the person.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Gonna say that is how I feel about ENFJs ... I only know two, but they are quite different
/ Lunar 12-egram /
Yeah EIEs are a pretty varied bunch; according to some descriptions they are the most temperamentally variable of all types.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Their sense of duty towards family/society/others is kind of odd.
Sometimes they can be mean too, but thats also true of ISTjs.
I dont really find ISTps that annoying but they have their faults which I wrote about above.
I'm not ENFj (well, Maritsa thinks I am) but one thing I dislike about ISTps is how they can be sort of formal and serious a lot and they don't respond very well to grand emotional expressions. It makes me feel like they either don't take me seriously or they don't "get" me or they just don't care. I dunno. In any case, interactions with them can be sort of disappointing. I've only known a couple of male ISTps--I don't know any females.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Specificity, especially regarding humor. Also, just the uneasy feeling. I feel as if every movement has been recorded, calculated, and judged. It's the creative Te, obviously. Yet, when coupled with dominant Si, the progression in which things are done matter a lot for whatever reason. I cannot replicate myself that way, and I find it very difficult to try and relate. Yet, I want to, which makes me just feel ... =/ (unless theyre an ass, then I dont care).
My only one consistent issue with SLIs, and Deltas in general, is that they just don't respond well to the way I communicate. When I talk to Deltas I feel like I have to tone myself down or sort of soften up a bit; when I'm being the way its easiest for me to be, it feels like they are sort of waiting for me to soften or something. Sometimes I will try to soften kind of deliberately but it just comes off as fake so I just go on being myself. I get the sense that they often kind of want to like me, and I often want to like them as well, especially the STs because they often come across as people who are both capable and sort of ready for what life will throw at them, and even with some crotchety old LSE men there is a kind of earnestness in their old-man-pack-defender spirit that I really kind of admire when I am able to take a step back and repel my initial reflex which is to scoff at the futility of their pomp, but even when we are both trying I can always feel this kind of un-bridge-able gap in communication that just kind of foils everything. My interactions with SLIs are different, I kind of feel like they give me this condescending look like they are waiting for me to slow down and get real or something. My ESE brother in law does it too, except he usually goes on these philosophical rants that are geared in some roundabout way to make me "chill" or come down a notch or something, which pisses me off even more but is also kind of something I do in a way so I know how to deflect it. Some Si SLIs kind of give me this look like they are waiting for me to come back to earth in this way that seems uncertain or gauging in a way, like they are giving me a certain amount of time to come down and after that they will just walk away (they don't actually walk away most of the time, lol, but that's the sense I get from the look they give me).
I actually learned some awesome poi moves from this one SLI kid. It was odd because we didn't even try to communicate that much through speech, he would just position me and be like "Here....and..yeah...so..." and I'm a fast learner so I was able to pick some stuff up from him, but when we tried to have a conversation it would just always fizzle out or degenerate into scripted bs.
But yeah...I usually just feel kind of uncomfortable around Delta irrationals because I feel like I have to alter myself in order for my presence to not be offensive to them. I have a kind of loud voice and I don't usually actively control the volume unless there is something specific I am trying to convey, and I think that tends to grate on Si valuers a lot. Also I have a natural tendency to posture in some ways and they just don't really play that game most of the time, and when they do its usually in this overly overt way that seems like they want to compare toys whereas I am more geared to establishing implicit self superiority. Sometimes I will jokingly posture with my EIE friends in that more overt manner, but its not the same, its much more exaggerated and sort of like over the top passive aggression, usually to discharge tension when one of us catches the other going into ego mode.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I realize that probably nobody agrees with me on this but I just recently started insisting, again, that a particular person was an EIE (Reuben). And I noticed yesterday that when he left the chatroom, the place just completely died. When he was there, it was filled with random conversations and activity, and when he left, nobody had anything to say.
EIEs really do wake the place up, but at the same time, when they're being themselves, I can't talk directly to them - it's just not normal for me to express affection openly for instance, by calling people affectionate nicknames or whatever. So with me personally, if I'm in a group of people and there's an EIE in the group, it will be a lively group but I have to find other people to talk to.
And yeah, I also feel the 'unbridgeable gap' in communication. I was just talking to an IEI I met yesterday by random accident, and we both liked each other and we both could see that the other was intelligent, but there was no real connection, even though we were saying words to each other.
I would think it's how SLIs don't (or sporadically) respond to emotional cues. I know when I'm interacting with people who also have a grasp on Fe when the emotional energy flows in conversation between everybody. You get a feeling that you have to come in at a certain time, on cue, and it feels natural. With SLIs/ILIs it's like you reach a dead end, a dampening effect. Like Gilly was saying, the "waiting for you to get serious" before taking you serious might be frustrating as well. I work with an SLI, and we were having a discussion on preparing presentations. He refused to believe, and actually got upset, when I told him that I think presentation/delivery is everything, especially when it comes to dry engineering stuff that is boring. To him the content of the message is the most important thing and there's no need to stimulate interest by any other means. I think he automatically assumed that focusing on delivery is a form of deception of the facts.
I'm curious what the Fe egos think of this: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ind-Reading-Fe
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
In reading this thread, I find myself annoyed by the same characteristics that everyone else is annoyed by which further points to me not being SLI. I dunno, I tend to feel like you're talking to a brick wall when you talk to some of them...there's just nothing there...they give you nothing back. I feel so bad about myself when I interact with people like that. Like omg, laugh or something. Show something. Show that you're alive.
Your posts sound a lot like that of a static type. I find it difficult to believe that you're a dynamic type like SLI.
Yeah i'm not
It's interesting, this caught my attention. Whenever I'm with someone who I really, really trust and feel close to, I will start to express more excitement in my voice, and more emotions in general. But I get overwhelmed by other people's emotions when they're expressing a lot of them, if it's Fe. If it's Fi on the other hand I enjoy empathizing with the other person's feelings.
But anyway I do the monotone thing too, whenever I'm overwhelmed and I've gotten lost in the conversations. I get confused. I'm like, 'wait, why should I care about this? why are we upset about this? why is this good?' And then I have to think for a few seconds to decide whether or not I like/dislike whatever we're talking about. I just simply don't know how I feel, about almost everything, whereas the Fe types know instantly how they feel about things and can just express it right there.
I try to feel it along with them and it feels fake (I know this, by the way, because I just had a conversation with a guy who I typed as IEI while we were talking, a random stranger, the other day), like I'm not expressing my true feelings.
If I had enough time to sit there, for a few seconds, or for a whole minute, or even longer, I could figure out how I *truly* feel about each and every subject we're discussing, and almost always, it's different from whatever the other person feels. A trivial example: I hate football. Someone will be excitedly telling me that some team won the game. I absolutely cannot agree with their excitement or feel it along with them, when I loathe football. And I feel like they want me to be excited about all the same things they are.
So I could say 'I hate football!' after they told me how excited they were about winning the game. But then I'd feel like the 'burden of proof' was on me - that I would have to somehow 'prove' that football REALLY IS 'bad.' And I can't prove it! So we could shout at each other all day long, 'Football is great!' 'Football is bad!' and nobody would win the argument.
I know in reality, Fe types probably just want to hear my own feelings on it, whatever they are, and they don't really expect me to agree with them on every opinion. But it would take me several minutes of meditating to be sure whether or not I *truly* felt some feeling, or was faking it just to agree.
And there are so many complexities to every situation that I always think of. Here's an example. Someone might say 'Abortion is WRONG!' and they could get very angry about abortion, and they're outside carrying signs and walking around in front of an abortion clinic. It's odd, because I myself don't like abortion either, but at the same time, I start thinking to myself, 'What's the most effective way to solve the problem of abortion? This isn't it.' I start to think that expressing a feeling isn't very effective at solving problems, and I start thinking that there are other ways to solve a problem. I almost always feel this way if people are protesting publicly about a social problem - I always think to myself that they don't understand the causes of it, and also, that whatever the politicians do to 'solve' it will actually make it worse. So Te gets in the way of just feeling the feelings.
And I don't mean that to sound superior. I know it can be turned around exactly the opposite way to me too.
I'm starting to think you sound like a SLE. But you will probably think that you're not 'outgoing' enough to be an extraverted type, or something.
Nah I've actually always thought SLE was more probable than LSI but at any rate, we know I'm some Beta ST. That's all I know. I'm sorry for going off topic...continue...lol
if those two things have anything to do with Fe/Te I'm going to have to follow jessica into some merry quadra for the real this time. how sure are you about them being related to socionics/valued elements?with SLIs it's as if the very way we communicate is offensive to each other. for instance, especially one-on-one, they don't take my emotional expression seriously; they are dismissive of it, which can hurt because i'll be trying to share my feelings with them, and their response is to ignore or resist it, and/or say something such as "oh my god chill out" or "you need to calm down" etc.... which will have the opposite effect of what they want
another thing is that they don't like the past being brought up. i am Ni ego and to me there is significance in observing the unfolding of various events of the past that can often help to explain problems and misunderstandings of the present, and SLIs just don't care. they will literally say that because it's in the past it is not important, that the present right now is what must be focused on, etc... (Ni devaluing) it is maddening...
also, though i am not as sure of this one, i am beginning to think this this is a common SLI trait: they seem to often have this attitude like "whatever is good enough for me should be good enough for anyone else" - which i find offensive and selfish. for example (and this is such a trivial thing!), my SLI sister did the dishes and in my opinion they weren't as clean as they should be. i put them all back in the sink and brought the issue up to her. she got upset and said "what the hell? i spent time doing that! you're just being OCD! it's not as if you're going to catch malaria" etc. in my view she totally missed the point - of course i was probably not going to get sick, but the idea of eating from those dishes was disgusting all the same. to her it didn't matter, they were clean "enough" and it's as if her effort and the time she spent doing it was more valuable to her than the actual result. (focusing on her "wasted" time and effort is probably her Te)
i have a terrible relationship with my SLI sister. it's to the point where even though we live in the same house, we barely even speak or look at each other. even though it hurts me, i don't really know what to do, because if we try to talk to each other, it is guaranteed we will descend into an argument within minutes. so for now, i just minimize my interaction with her. also, she has a douchebag, sketchy, cowardly, moral hypocrite of a boyfriend who is a probable IEE and i can't stand him lol. (there are better IEEs out there but he is not one of them.)
i'm sure my sister thinks that it's my fault - that if i was not so "dramatic" and "neurotic" that our relationship would be better. at least i have socionics to know that it's not really the fault of either of us.
/rant
I have written in the Delta and Fe thread which may shed some insight into your problems with your sister. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Deltas-and-FeI have an Fe ego sibling, whom I've had positive relations with, but have noted my own tendency to not take her emotional expression too seriously because I can't tell how seriously she wanted me to take her? Because she's so emotionally expressive on most occasions that I'm rather numbed to her expressions by now that most of it goes beyond my radar (otherwise she'd get me into a start over minor issues/problems which happen to upset her). I'm more sensitive towards the subtle than the obvious in this case. Unless she turns really withdrawn or starts crying (during our growing-up years) which because it so rarely happens, that definitely gets me concerned and puts me on the alert. SLIs, moreso than LSEs (due to their vulnerable Fe) wouldn't be able to take the Fe very well, especially not as it happens, and I can see them telling others to chill. If they do value the relationship, all the more would they attempt to caretake by calming them down, to have them get into a calm enough mental state to sort out the issue (since a calm state of mind is essential for them in the tackling of their own problems.) It can definitely come across as the trivializing of feelings, since SLIs themselves trivialize their own but for the very deepest.
I can see myself adopting this same attitude. It's more of a forced optimism. "It's what you do now that matters. Dwelling on past regrets won't change anything. The future is still in your hands, and you can do things now to change it. Don't dwell on mistakes of the past". That sort of thing.
My interpretation of this is that her expression of annoyance hides a frustration at her own ineptitude/imperfection rather than seriously lashing out at you being OCD? At least that would be what goes on inside my mind. Though I would definitely have been annoyed at 'wasted time and effort' when I thought I'd already accomplished something to my satisfaction only to be told that it wasn't as good as I thought and have to redo the task all over again, especially when I've shifted modes and tapped into the Si relaxation flow.
I guess this is a good example of how conflicting quadra communication modes can mess up relations between people without our meaning it to.
I agree. It helps some to remember that something perceived as ..say "Ni devaluing" being irksome is the flipside of Si or Ne devaluing. For example, an Si/Ne person might be trying to help...but doing so in the only way they know how. But the helpee is devaluing that help...because it's not the kind they actually want/need. Unfortunately...this kind of reaction on both sides weakens the relationship. Leading two people who cared about each other to eventually separate...each blaming the other.I guess this is a good example of how conflicting quadra communication modes can mess up relations between people without our meaning it to.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Yes, and it's very sad when that happens. Reminds me of my SLI mom and her IEI sis. Both in their late 40s, no longer talking to one another, yet have secret intention of fixing the relations but to no avail.
This sort of thing really needs to be nipped in the bud, before it sets into the point of no return. It's not easy though.
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