SLI-EIE Conflicting Relations (ISTp and ENFj)

[Suz]

if they are constantly being monitored. Which an EIE might tend to do, through no fault of their own, they just simply need verbal feedback. So maaaybe SLI's keeping to themselves is exactly the kind of thing that would confuse an EIE.

you can say THAT again!!! I recently left a boss I think is EIE, because he was a serious micromanager just like that. Just breathing down my neck with every little thing, every little email. Even when he was out of town, i felt like he was keeping track of me. Like when i left work a couple hours early because of a snowstorm (most people had gone home before me already), he criticized me saying he sees on the internet highway cameras that the traffic is moving just fine.

[aisa]

I can't think of a specific example for the post above, but here's something that just happened with an SLI family member after we ate some food a widowed aunt brought over.

SLI: That was really good.

Me: It was really good. I was going to call her to thank her, but why don't you call instead. It would really mean a lot coming from you. (She kinda favors him.)

SLI: (Silence)

I am not sure that an LSI in that situation would really want to make the call, either. But it might be less painful for an LSI.

yeah, asking my husband to do sth like this (a similar situation and other less emotionally charged but resembling this one somehow) is like asking him "oh, honey wouldn't you mind walking barefoot on hot coals and jumping on them some? this would be greatly appreciated" silence is exactly the reaction you'd get from him (and him silently hoping that if he avoids eye contact and stays silent, the situation will just resolve itself without him being forced to take action in the manner asked of him)

edit: I read further you mentioning you didn't feel comfortable asking... yeah, I noticed that whether it's family or further relation - the reaction is pretty much the same unfortunately. I mean sometimes he will force himself but it has to be a "lighter weight" of situation, there's a fair chance he was subconsciously dreading having to have a conversation that could go onto the subject of grief and he wouldn't know what to say and how to react, despite feeling compassion.

[aisa]

Me: how was work?
Him :fine
Me: fine? what does that mean?
Him: means work was good.
Me: so what did you do?
Him: Worked on a bathroom getting the tiling finished.
Me: did it go okay?
Him: yeeeaah.
Me: it sounds like it didn't.
Him: it went good.
Me: so why don't you seem happy about it?
Him: I am happy about it.
(clearly not happy about it)
SO I stop asking and move on to something else.

lmao, this is a very realistic dialogue, so sooo true
the difference is - what you interpret as him being not happy about it because he doesn't answer in an animated manner (I used to think the same as you some years back) - and therefore you assume he's annoyed and stop pressuring... might be in fact him really being happy with the job he did, but he displays it without expression, he is internally content, not externally happy. and exactly like you said, he's content being left alone
also, yeah, the reaction if sth was wrong would be exactly the same and it takes a lot of prodding to get stuff out of a SLI, but it is doable

I assume this is also sth to do with the relationship dynamic. You're a guy and those are guys you're describing too, I know for a fact there's no way my husband would share things with other guys the way he does with me (which did take a lot of time to reach the level I wanted)

Me: So it looks like you are hungry, I'm starving, you want to go out for dinner?
Him: Sure. No expression, no tonal change, just yes.
I know he will feel better soon….

lol, again, very real:
me: what do you want for breakfast?
him: whatever
me: (jokingly) "whatever" doesn't exist, any other preferences?
him: (thinking)

best is to bring him two things to choose from when I feel the need for him to express his preference, or actually feed him "whatever" when I don't feel like prodding answers out of him (he'll be fed, he'll be happy )

When an SLI says yes, the mean yes. They are not going to elaborate to appease you, and if you want more in depth answers, you got to get them with tact, pressing for answers, then pulling away. This is def true of this older SLI here, and even more so of the younger one. Asking him: what do you think of …this, that, and the other thing? how did you feel about it? seems like you are sad? He often replies with condescending laughter and repeats back what I said to him as if he was surprised I asked and is buying more time: what do you mean what do I think about it?

this might actually be him not understanding what you are asking for. Firstly, he might prefer to keep to himself and be used to solving issues on his own (and it takes a lot to get through and get a SLI to start sharing, but oh what a satisfaction when that moment arrives )
secondly, if such a question is asked in a dialogue such as this:
me: did you like that film?
him: yes
me: what did you think about it?
him: (thinking) or the above one: "what do you mean what do I think about it?"

he already expressed his opinion - he liked the film, why should he dissect it and dig to motivations why he liked it? he might if I ask enough questions and jokingly pester him, but it's not like he'll willingly express an opinion akin to: "I really loved this film. I enjoyed the atmosphere the music created, especially when I could hear the guitar sounds in that one scene filled with tension. I think the story was a bit dreamy and unrealistic, but that's why I liked it, I am a bit of a dreamer at heart."
not gonna happen (although those could be exactly his internal sentiments, he just doesn't know how to express it and doesn't feel the need to do so, very private)

It's all very one step forward, two steps back.

not exactly from my perspective, it's like cracking a "code" and learning to read a person, although I can see that it could feel like "two steps back" from Fe perspective or alternately from a different sort of relationship (not spouse-spouse) perspective)

SLI are chill, like they don't make issues were they don't see issues.

this is sth I absolutely adore! soo relaxing

Both the older and younger SLI's like to go to house parties, and as cliche as it sounds love to go to food parties. The older one honestly just sits in the back of the room with this shit eating grin on his face, not participating, but certainly not NOT involved in the festivities, you know?

did I mention my husband's dad is SLI too? you've just described him, lmao

IF he says yes, then usually he means yes.

again, I find this so comforting!

They are like quite house pets in a way, I'm sorry to say guys but you are.

lmao

I can see the confictor relationship going quite well in some ways simple because the SLI is so adept at keeping to themselves. Even in a working relationship I would wager that the EIE wouldn't mind SLI because the SLI gets stuff done. However, I caution to say the SLI gets stuff done, BUT preferably in their own way on their own schedule. They do not flourish under strict management's and will complain profusely if they are constantly being monitored. Which an EIE might tend to do, through no fault of their own, they just simply need verbal feedback. So maaaybe SLI's keeping to themselves is exactly the kind of thing that would confuse an EIE.

yeah, I also think that would be confusing to EIE and strong Fe-users. This can be confusing even to other Fe-PoLRs (my ILI mum thinks my husband is emotionally "difficult to read"; and I find it somehow ironic cause she's also very difficult to read).
hmm lol I think an ILI-SLI relationship could be humorous from this perspective - both would expect the other to be a bit more expressive than themselves in order to feel comfortable, lol (I mean, while they like each other very much, my SLI mum thinks my ILI husband is "difficult to read" and he says she is "a bit too sharp for him"... oh the irony lmao I couldn't help myself this week when my mum started saying that she couldn't convince my husband to do sth and I told her "well, trying to convince him to do sth when he doesn't want to - is pretty much like trying to convince you to do sth when you don't want to"... I barely managed not to laugh out loud when I saw the surprise on her face and my dad was laughing a lot when I told him about it later on )

about a week ago my ESE mother-in-law was talking to me describing how my husband acted when he was a child - "he was very secretive, it took soo much asking and asking to get him to say that sth is bothering him..." "his sister [ILI] was even more secretive, she wouldn't say a thing" "and his brother [ESE] was so good with communicating this [she lights up] - he always said <mum, this made me so happy!> or <I am sooo angry right now because of this and that!!!>"
yup...

also, I think that in general regardless the type the Fe/Fi divide is one of the things that are quite easy to notice in relations in real life (the forum clouds this area).

One more fun moment to share: A friend was meeting her boyfriend out of town for a romantic weekend: Yay! But they were meeting in Waco, Tx. Ew.

Our group of friends were all trying to help her think of fun things to do to make up for the lameness of Waco. My SLI friend was silent the whole time. Finally she spoke: " Waco makes me want to shoot myself."

That is the kind of blunt, unexpected humor that I love from my SLI friends.

lmao, I actually literally picture my SLI female friend saying this with a straight face for that matter, I find this hilarious

[Park]

I can't think of a specific example for the post above, but here's something that just happened with an SLI family member after we ate some food a widowed aunt brought over.

SLI: That was really good.

Me: It was really good. I was going to call her to thank her, but why don't you call instead. It would really mean a lot coming from you. (She kinda favors him.)

SLI: (Silence)

I am not sure that an LSI in that situation would really want to make the call, either. But it might be less painful for an LSI.

Personally, I don't like being given suggestions or instructions as to how to deal with my relationships, esp. in terms of expressing my own feelings. My mom used to do that and it drove me crazy. She was rather insistent/imposing about it, though, which might not be the case with you, I don't know.

My response in that situation would probably be along the lines of "If you want to call her than do that, but don't tell me what I should do." I may keep silent to avoid an open disagreement.

And in case you wonder, suggestions like the one you gave to your SLI family member can be offensive because they are likely to imply, or at least give the impression that (1) the other person (the SLI in this case) hasn't thought of it or is less considerate to others than you are (so it's like you're putting yourself in a superior moral position); and that (2) you regard the other person as incapable of thinking and acting for and by themselves, or in other words, you expect them to do something only because you think they should do it (which by itself can make me not do it, even if I thought of doing it).

Again, I don't know how you really act about these things IRL, but if you're subtle and non-imposing, I might not mind it if they came in the form of positive encouragement or reminders about things I already wanted or thought of doing, but forgot or wasn't sure about.

[Park]

Oh, and I fail to see the relevance of that example in terms of what you said about SLIs crushing your enthusiasm and not helping you with things.

[aisa]

in other words, you expect them to do something only because you think they should do it (which by itself can make me not do it, even if I thought of doing it).

omg, this! this is so true of my husband too. I wonder if it's true of all SLIs...(?)

[aisa]

Oh, and I fail to see the relevance of that example in terms of what you said about SLIs crushing your enthusiasm and not helping you with things.

umm, correct me if I'm wrong @Iris, but I understood that this was meant to be an example of a SLI not helping you with sth, because you'd consider him expressing both him and you being thankful for that meal to your aunt - as him being helpful towards you and considerate of both your and your aunt's feelings...(?)
also the way I understood this, you had trouble coming up with sth more specific - as in a SLI not helping you with some physical task, cause you don't dwell on it long enough to remember and what's left with you later is a general feeling that a person was inconsiderate and not receptive to your enthusiasm/supportive without really remembering the details of the particular situation...(?)

please tell me if I understood correctly or if you meant sth else?

I am trying to understand sth here, cause if I understood you correctly, I have a feeling this could be sth to do with Fe/Fi and Te/Ti divide - cause I know I had trouble with an IEI female friend when I was very young and also similar trouble with an IEI ex-boyfriend. I wanted clear-cut examples of where I acted inconsiderate in order to prevent this from happening in the future (I was completely unaware of what was ticking them off enough for them to get angry at me later on, didn't do it on purpose) and they were getting even more angry saying sth along the lines that they can't remember what was the specific situation but they feel wronged by me. From a current perspective I think that I was then trying to solve an issue using Fi and Te, while they were in need of expressing themselves through Fe and maybe annoyed by some Fe-ignoring comment I made earlier on? - I have no idea if I am making sense here and if that was really how the situation could be interpreted...?
Also, not saying that that's how you acted cause clearly you described a situation that didn't end as an argument, but I'm speculating/trying to figure sth out hopefully with your help

[Park]

Tangents.

[Iris]

Oh, and I fail to see the relevance of that example in terms of what you said about SLIs crushing your enthusiasm and not helping you with things.

I didn't phrase the opening sentence of that post very, well, sorry. @aisa I think I was trying to give a general explanation of how I might oppress and annoy an SLI with my Fe.

[aisa]

Tangents.

duh

[Park]

umm, correct me if I'm wrong @Iris, but I understood that this was meant to be an example of a SLI not helping you with sth, because you'd consider him expressing both him and you being thankful for that meal to your aunt - as him being helpful towards you and considerate of both your and your aunt's feelings...(?)
also the way I understood this, you had trouble coming up with sth more specific - as in a SLI not helping you with some physical task, cause you don't dwell on it long enough to remember and what's left with you later is a general feeling that a person was inconsiderate and not receptive to your enthusiasm/supportive without really remembering the details of the particular situation...(?)

Are you saying she felt enthusiastic about expressing gratitude to the old widowed lady?

[aisa]

Are you saying she felt enthusiastic about expressing gratitude to the old widowed lady?

lolll, no
first part of the post was regarding what was said about the particular EIE-SLI situation
second part of the post was just me generalizing - you know - a tangent

[Iris]

I have 2 SLI friends who i enjoy talking with because I love the way their minds work... It is a fine relationship for casual conversations. I think problems would start in a working or romantic relationship, because I really need help with things/projects, and the IP temperament looks at my enthusiasm and goes naaaaaah.

Regarding my contributions to this thread, I am trying to relate my mostly positive experiences with SLIs. I don't have the romantic or working relationships, so in that last sentence was speculating about possible problem areas based on other IP interactions.

[The Martrix]

How would you know? you can't tell by looking...

[The Martrix]

I think, more than anything, this relationship is governed by a polarity clash of Quadras, with the Delta SLI spoiling the emotional atmosphere the Beta EIE took great care to cultivate. Or to look at it the other way, the EIE attempting to impose this collective emotionality upon the individualistic SLI.

[Slacker]

I have an SLI husband and an EIE dad, and it's just painful for my husband when they're together. My dad tries to be the good father-in-law and draw my husband into conversation, get my husband to open up, and he just sits silent without moving in a corner until we can go. And then my dad will ask why my husband doesn't like him. "I try to be nice and include him and make him feel like a part of everything we're doing, and he doesn't respond at all."

[golden]

I have an SLI husband and an EIE dad, and it's just painful for my husband when they're together. My dad tries to be the good father-in-law and draw my husband into conversation, get my husband to open up, and he just sits silent without moving in a corner until we can go. And then my dad will ask why my husband doesn't like him. "I try to be nice and include him and make him feel like a part of everything we're doing, and he doesn't respond at all."

Sort of this. SLIs and I just don't interact much, it's two magnets positioned to repel. Most of my experience with them is forced by circumstance. I find them intriguing, though, and I envy them sometimes, because they seem to have what I lack.

If I like the SLI or share interests with them, conversation goes nowhere--my actions and statements find no landing points. It's just awkward, like when you're trying to make a path for someone on the sidewalk but they do that too at the same time, and you keep blocking each other even though you both meant well.

If the SLI is someone I don't much like, things can turn hostile. We apparently piss each other off without realizing it, and conflict has started to emerge but it's too late to really fix it. Clash, clash, clash. So when I can, I leave a lot of distance.

[Park]

And then my dad will ask why my husband doesn't like him. "I try to be nice and include him and make him feel like a part of everything we're doing, and he doesn't respond at all."

LOL

[Emmym]

I actually have seen this one. The EIE was popular but somewhat lazy (gossiped too much & poor multi-tasker). The SLI was hard-working but socially awkward and kind of an unpopular asshole. Talked a load of shit on her behind her back, mostly about how inept she was and how much harder she made his job. They worked in a department separate from but next to mine. Pretty sure their bosses are LSI and ESE, husband and wife. The LSI disciplines the EIE but doesn't waste time complaining about anyone to anyone else. The EIE is upset about getting disciplined and the LSI is satisfied when she starts working harder, but the SLI is bitter that she's still there at all. Really, it seemed like he just wanted her out. He goes above their boss's head to HR and complains that "lazy people are being coddled by incompetent managers." LSI pulls him aside and says that he doesn't like to fire people, but if he has a problem with how he runs things, then the SLI can quit. The SLI quits and moves in with his grandparents in another state (wtf?), later messages the EIE to apologize and complain that his new job is terrible, EIE never responds and deletes the message.

[Beautiful sky]

sometimes i actually act offensive to express affection

I don't understand that at all. But, I guess it works.

[Beautiful sky]

At first EIE seems to be serious and takes a lot of Te type of suggestions and SLI seems goofy and outgoing and takes a lot of things to do like playing baseball and stuff. Soon enough the Si shows up in the SLI as their energy is more about relaxing and making other's cozy and comfy at home and telling people what tasks to do. The conflict between them is built along the lines of LSI like to read more, as they relax and they like discussions on a deep level. They think things through and analyze them. They also have a hard time trusting people so they need Fe to determine that in others. Neither of which is provided by SLI. SLI don't say "I have feelings my feelings are telling me I don't trust that person." I just heard my brother in law say this to my ESE sister. My ESE sister, using her Fe will investigate the trustworthiness of the individual, so will EIE. SLI doesn't say things like that and hence EIE doesn't go on missions to determine who is trustworthy or not. Both are moody so the EIE mistakes them at first, but SLI will see the attempt to adjust their mood and give them trust as a good thing, however in the long run it's over bearing and too much to handle. It's a matter of over time the emphasis of Si over Ti aggravates EIE and Fe over Ne aggravates SLI because SLI can't stand being around people who like emotional displays or want them to display emotions so they can be read. Sexually, they are also mismatched as it seems that duals are matched sexually. SLI are into objects that make them feel good, like being obsessed with cars, music, pets etc. LSI are not. SLI also don't like to really analyze things until they are asked several times to do it so they won't brush up the feelings that EIE get when they worry about things. Both can be protective in their own way. SLI are less prone to noticing and comparing details because of devaluing Se so they tend to be more in their imaginary world in they mind, but don't like to seem this way to they outside world, but still they do run errands if asked like LSI. I'm bad at separating my analysis I know, but you get it.

[Beautiful sky]

Yes I think so. I get offended when people offend me; isn't that what it's for? lol. I do not understand Fe, but I guess that is because Fe is my ignoring function and it confuses me when people "act" offensive but "do not mean it"? If you said it, there's obviously truth to it (unconsciously).

I agree

[Beautiful sky]

Suppose an EIE does something wrong/bad and is confronted by an SLI about it. The EIE, with Ti suggestive, blames it on the gnomes, and in response the SLI simply calls the EIE a liar. Next thing shit hits the fan and the EIE goes into a hysterically angry tantrum. I hate to say it, but that's so hilarious to watch! (Nah, I lied, I don't hate to say it).

Yeah. SLI are serious and especially when they are in the accusatory mood they don't like being joked around with. My dad doesn't when my sister throws light hearted joking at him when he reads the serious riot act at her..."I told you ten years ago to do this or that you didn't listen" she says "yeah dad but that would mean it would age me rwenty years see I'm young [starts giggling to uplift his mood]" he says "quiet and listen to me not everything is a joke"

[aisa]

At first EIE seems to be serious and takes a lot of Te type of suggestions and SLI seems goofy and outgoing and takes a lot of things to do like playing baseball and stuff. Soon enough the Si shows up in the SLI as their energy is more about relaxing and making other's cozy and comfy at home and telling people what tasks to do. The conflict between them is built along the lines of LSI like to read more, as they relax and they like discussions on a deep level. They think things through and analyze them. They also have a hard time trusting people so they need Fe to determine that in others. Neither of which is provided by SLI. SLI don't say "I have feelings my feelings are telling me I don't trust that person." I just heard my brother in law say this to my ESE sister. My ESE sister, using her Fe will investigate the trustworthiness of the individual, so will EIE. SLI doesn't say things like that and hence EIE doesn't go on missions to determine who is trustworthy or not. Both are moody so the EIE mistakes them at first, but SLI will see the attempt to adjust their mood and give them trust as a good thing, however in the long run it's over bearing and too much to handle. It's a matter of over time the emphasis of Si over Ti aggravates EIE and Fe over Ne aggravates SLI because SLI can't stand being around people who like emotional displays or want them to display emotions so they can be read. Sexually, they are also mismatched as it seems that duals are matched sexually. SLI are into objects that make them feel good, like being obsessed with cars, music, pets etc. LSI are not. SLI also don't like to really analyze things until they are asked several times to do it so they won't brush up the feelings that EIE get when they worry about things. Both can be protective in their own way. SLI are less prone to noticing and comparing details because of devaluing Se so they tend to be more in their imaginary world in they mind, but don't like to seem this way to they outside world, but still they do run errands if asked like LSI. I'm bad at separating my analysis I know, but you get it.

I agree with everything you said above, I've noticed those things.
The only thing that I feel different about is SLI not noticing details? The SLIs I know are attentive to details. But you mentioned Se, so maybe the details you were referring to are sth different from the details I am thinking about (visual details - such as men paying attention to females having nice hands and beautiful nails or at work noticing technical details and females being great at interior design, creating great visually pleasing atmosphere at home)... did you mean that they don't pay as much attention to the outside world as an LSI does?

[aisa]

Yeah. SLI are serious and especially when they are in the accusatory mood they don't like being joked around with. My dad doesn't when my sister throws light hearted joking at him when he reads the serious riot act at her..."I told you ten years ago to do this or that you didn't listen" she says "yeah dad but that would mean it would age me rwenty years see I'm young [starts giggling to uplift his mood]" he says "quiet and listen to me not everything is a joke"

I kind of think part of this is the SLI vs Fe thing and part of this is parent-child dynamics. Also, I've seen SLIs lighten up a bit when Ne is used jokingly towards them, but it does matter what the joke is and the moment of delivery (yeah, a moment when smn is in an accusatory mood, like you mentioned, isn't particularly great for throwing in a joke right away). Hmm, it also seems the Enneagram differences among SLIs influence their behaviour a lot - i.e. a SLI e5 or e6 ((umm are SLIs e1s common? I know an ILI e1 - quite reactive, I should imagine a SLI e1 would also snap from time to time)) would be more outwardly "strict" (or faster visibly aggravated) than a SLI e9. Of course each of them might have a similar thought process, but depending on the person (and their upbringing) it would take more or less stimuli for them to kind of snap. - i.e. a SLI who was brought up in a Fe filled household is bound to be used to "dealing" with Fe more (whether they like it or not) than a SLI brought up in a solely Fi household.
So basically I have a SLI friend who'd react like this and another SLI friend who'd react like this internally but bite their tongue despite being annoyed (depending on what I've written above).

[Beautiful sky]

I kind of think part of this is the SLI vs Fe thing and part of this is parent-child dynamics. Also, I've seen SLIs lighten up a bit when Ne is used jokingly towards them, but it does matter what the joke is and the moment of delivery (yeah, a moment when smn is in an accusatory mood, like you mentioned, isn't particularly great for throwing in a joke right away). Hmm, it also seems the Enneagram differences among SLIs influence their behaviour a lot - i.e. a SLI e5 or e6 ((umm are SLIs e1s common? I know an ILI e1 - quite reactive, I should imagine a SLI e1 would also snap from time to time)) would be more outwardly "strict" (or faster visibly aggravated) than a SLI e9. Of course each of them might have a similar thought process, but depending on the person (and their upbringing) it would take more or less stimuli for them to kind of snap. - i.e. a SLI who was brought up in a Fe filled household is bound to be used to "dealing" with Fe more (whether they like it or not) than a SLI brought up in a solely Fi household.
So basically I have a SLI friend who'd react like this and another SLI friend who'd react like this internally but bite their tongue despite being annoyed (depending on what I've written above).

you get SLI very well

[RedMarquee]

My two best friends are SLI, and my cousin is EIE. Anyway one birthday I had my cousin over along with the two. They basically thought that my cousin was too self obsessed, had too much energy and was annoying and acting like a know it all who knew nothing. My cousin said they were cocky asshats who don't know how to have fun. It started off good though. Also I can confirm the fuzzies in the SLI. They're awesome people, but our logics collide on occasion, plus they're more moral for sure...

[ConcreteButterfly]

I've seen this one play out at work. They are together for hours at a time with few other people, and few breaks. The SLI basically ignores the EIE's attempts to be friendly and feels constantly monitored by her. The EIE feels like she isn't organized enough around him and becomes very quiet. It's a strange thing to witness because around most people, the EIE is very loud and friendly, but she shuts down around the SLI. The SLI is even more pragmatic than usual around her, that is, he specifically does his job and nothing more, and won't hang around to talk or anything like that after work. With other people the EIE becomes more animated and tries to draw the SLI into the conversation, but usually he doesn't respond beyond a polite smile, silently observing everything.

[WolfgangsMirror]

Many years back I became briefly romantically involved with an SLI. If we weren't getting physical, things were very awkward. I would talk and talk, and it felt like talking to someone who wasn't listening, even though she was clearly listening. I felt like there was no feedback to anything I said, like all the responses to what I would say would never make it out of her brain and onto the face or out through body language. Her verbal replies were always short and didn't ever seem to give me anything to keep the ball rolling. Whenever she initiated conversation it was of things that held no interest for me. The only time she ever expressed any feeling to words was when she was making some sort of negative judgement. Otherwise I would constantly feel like we were two people existing, but not connecting on any personal, social, or emotional level. It was exhausting for both of us, and though the sexual connection had no issues, it was a short lived relationship- first bump in the road and it just ended without fanfare or closure, just people going separate ways in unspoken agreement.

[ConcreteButterfly]

Many years back I became briefly romantically involved with an SLI. If we weren't getting physical, things were very awkward. I would talk and talk, and it felt like talking to someone who wasn't listening, even though she was clearly listening. I felt like there was no feedback to anything I said, like all the responses to what I would say would never make it out of her brain and onto the face or out through body language. Her verbal replies were always short and didn't ever seem to give me anything to keep the ball rolling. Whenever she initiated conversation it was of things that held no interest for me. The only time she ever expressed any feeling to words was when she was making some sort of negative judgement.Otherwise I would constantly feel like we were two people existing, but not connecting on any personal, social, or emotional level. It was exhausting for both of us, and though the sexual connection had no issues, it was a short lived relationship- first bump in the road and it just ended without fanfare or closure, just people going separate ways in unspoken agreement.

What kind of things did she initiate conversation about?

[WolfgangsMirror]

What kind of things did she initiate conversation about?

It's been about 11 years, so most of the details have faded, but from what I can remember it was mostly an in the moment negative observations like "that woman is so fat it's disgusting" or "Why won't those kids just shut up!". She also liked to point out cars and motorcycles that she liked the look of or that had some sort of great engine or whatever. She liked fast driving and such, and would talk about that, but that sort of thing never interested me. Really it was hard to establish any kind of back and forth or rhythm of conversation. I do remember one thing she opened up about was that her mom was a pagan or wiccan or some such, and she went off on a rant about mainstream religion (christianity) and how it vilifies pagan/wiccan religions. The most words I ever heard her say at one time, and the rant lasted all of two minutes. I'm trying to remember more, but nothing seems to come to mind. Oh, she did like drugs. She liked cocaine and would talk about that, but again, something I don't care nor care to talk about.

So I would have to say she initiated conversations about things in the immediate world around us, or about some sort of sensation that she enjoyed.
I think perhaps the problems don't lay in the content of her interests and my interests, but in the ability to properly communicate to each other in receptive ways what topics are good to talk about, which are not, when it's okay to have a peaceful silence, when to speak up. I think the willy wonka and grumpy cat pics really do illustrate the broad generalization of the interaction very well.

ME: "Let me tell you about all of these personal things, now open up to me about some of these or other personal things."
HER: "This sandwich tastes good."

[ev8]

My (eie?) manager will only tell me to hurry up if he thinks I seem relaxed. It's like he thinks higher stress leads to higher productivity, which is not how it works when you've already mastered the intricate art of pizza delivery. I've already put in my 2 weeks. He might be an sle now that I think on it.

[wasp]

I imagine it's like Katniss (SLI) being against the idea of a revolution (EIE) in the Hunger Games

the revolution is a haughty EIE with big dreams of f*cking shit up but Katniss just wants to shoot arrows, feed her family, and live a quiet life in nature. as always the EIE gives zero fucks and just wants to watch the world burn, they'll claim it's for the greater good but really it's just about the excitement that comes along with people dying and molotov cocktails and receiving nation-wide acclaim for leading a "noble" cause. even the atmosphere associated with the Hunger Games screams unhealthy Beta values to me. social games, hierarchy-climbing techniques, echo chambers of empty affirmation, but I don't think SLI has any interest in appeasing a bunch of air-heads to become rich and popular. SLI just wants to nature and shoot a bunch of arrows at things

but when all is said and done you find out the whole revolution shtick was just a hoax prompted by a dramatic mood swing which will surely swing around again in a few hours, don't worry! so naturally over time the SLI learns not to take a single thing the EIE says/does seriously because it's hot air

at least that's how I imagine it looks like from an SLI's perspective, I've never been involved in a revolution myself

whereas the reverse probably looks like an EIE getting ready to attend a political protest but the SLI is couch potato who keeps nodding his head toward the tv remote which is really only a few millimeters away so he resigns himself to lying on the cough eating potato chips instead, sans TV

[Chae]

Yeah Katniss against the Capitol is SLI-EIE in a nutshell:

[Ilamatecuhtli]

This is quite an old topic but I want to dig it up for sake of my overthinking about some real situation.

So, I have an acquaintance who is EIE-Fe. We do not have and most probably won’t have any closer relationship for multiple reasons but I like him a lot (obviously) and care about his well-being.
He is really great person, quite successful at a job but his intimate relationships used to be disastrous. Despite being excellent looking and charming he never initiates anything, so ends up with frivolous girlfriends, who then are breaking up with him and/or cheat.
This personal history causes him really lot of pain that he covers with humor with a various success. He has a ridiculously low self-esteem and his “friends” seems to me not really helpful in this area – basically everybody thinks he is fun but weird/too strict sometimes (rational subtype).
I did everything I could to convince him how much good he does for others etc. but I don’t think I achieved there something lasting – we are not very close as I said.

4-5 months ago he has met SLI woman (ok, I’m almost sure she is SLI) and well, they are dating. It makes perfect sense, they have got similar life styles, age is nothing but proper (he is 30, she 28). He is so damn happy to be with someone who seems (and probably is) a reliable woman.
However, there are some problems already:
- he seems to do most of the job in relation, not getting too much reassurance and appreciation,
- he seems kind of afraid of her and that he will fail her (but to be honest he is always afraid of it, with anybody),
- they already had serious conflicts about his Fe-actions: like for example he got asked and wanted to make a favour for a female friend and she made him think it is a bad idea, something that could be a danger for their relationship (?!), so he refused and felt horrible about it,
- basically she seems to be rather possessive / insecure and even in this early stage of relationship visibly constricts his social activity.

He is decided to be with her and not that I mind, I wish him every luck, but it makes me wonder, because I am the person who wonders:
- will it even work out in long term?
- will he be happy? The maintenance of relationship is one thing; but being really content in it is another. I wonder, thinking about romance styles, that perhaps as an obvious victim he may be quite fine with this...
- could she be ever content about him and his efforts? Actually, what EIE in love does may make him similar to IEE, right?
I know it is maybe a pointless divagation and the time will show how it will develop but well, I’m curious right now, from a theoretical point of view. Most of all I wouldn’t want to get know one day that they married and then divorcing, that would literally destroy this man. My mother is SLI and she quite brutally divorced with LSI husband after a couple of years. But the main reason was that he did not fight for her “love”. EIE certainly would.

I guess that in an opposite gender configuration: EIE woman and SLI man it would be a bit less likely to work out but I imagine: SLI woman will want to be in relationship, for own good, right? And EIE will want to sustain a relationship for sake of relationship, no matter if his needs of acceptance and positive emotions are being fully met. Poor white knights. This quadra seems to be called “beta” for a reason, really.

If anyone has any experience or thoughts, my intellectual neuroticism will appreciate.

[Smilex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWECp59ICgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVImvMwcazM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52d79VRP4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K6H7_6ujfs

A famous tv relationship.