Dual parents?

[posablethumb]

Ok, if you're a female, this applies to your dad, and if you're male, this applies to your mom. for the purpose of this thread, I think it would be a lot different the other way around.

If you have a parent who is your dual, how has the relationship been between you guys? How has it affected the way you view other people who might be your dual?

My mom is my dual, and it's been pretty crappy. I think it made me lose faith in other peoples empathy for a while. I think that made me slightly psychopathic or sociopathic, i forget which one. now that I can detach more properly, I know what to say to my mother. this just started a month ago.

you?

[Jarno]

Because few people will have a dual parent, there probably won't be many reply's.

I have an Activity relationship with my mom. It's very good, exactly how it's described in socionics and i have nothing to complain about.

[Slacker]

My brother and mom are duals and they seem to have a very happy relationship.

[aestrivex]

i'm not sure what type my mom was. i think that it's likely she was SEE or IEE, but she's dead now.

[posablethumb]

as expected

[rockclimber]

My father is ESTj and we've always had a good relationship.

[BLauritson]

My mother's my activity partner. I think we get on better in adulthood than we ever did in my younger years for various reasons, many of which are probably not type-related.

[Joy]

Some of these typings I'm not totally sure about, but...

I supervise my dad and am my mom's look a like.
My brother is my dad's comparative and my mom supervises him.
My sister is my mom's contrary and my dad's quasi identical.

[Expat]

I can't think of any father-daughter or mother-son dual pair.

My father and my brother were duals (ISFp-ENTp, respectively) and this only became manifested as my brother grew up, not so obvious (although some signs were there, in hindsight) while we were younger.

[Elro]

I can't think of any father-daughter or mother-son dual pair.

My father and my brother were duals (ISFp-ENTp, respectively) and this only became manifested as my brother grew up, not so obvious (although some signs were there, in hindsight) while we were younger.

What kind of signs were there?

[Expat]

What kind of signs were there?

They found it easier to spend longer times together, particularly fishing on the beach -- a typical activity that never attracted me. What my father and I had in common was a liking for rollercoasters, which my ENTp brother disliked but that was of course less often and of shorter duration.

Also, it seemed to me that my father seemed much readier to get something if said by my brother ( ) than by me ( ), even if we were in the end saying the same thing.

[mikemex]

My father (INTj) is my brother's dual (ESFj). He gets annoyed at how my brother is a bit sticky sometimes and just keeps talking, talking and talking, but it's because he's disabled and spends all the time at home.

They get along ok, I think.

[posablethumb]

actually i just found out she's an ISFj, after careful study of the differences between the ISFx, my mom.

[KSpin]

My Mum is my conflictor. So it's all good, until we start talking to each other about things other than business. (She's an accountant)

[Shazaam]

My dad has one son that is his dual (he's INTj, son is ESFj) and innately treats him better. He has a deeper respect, and shows favortism. Yes I'm sure he 'loves everybody the same' but there's a closer psychological distance.

I notice to make him happier sometimes I try to act like his dual, he seems to appreciate it, but I have to also be enthused and have to have the right attitude. Since it's hard to expect people to act differently from their natural themselves it's usually dissapointing. For example not only do I have to do a lot of things for him like an ESFj would I have to be enthused about it and show lots of in the process. That 'caretaker-giveryness' just does not come natural at all to me. Then in return he wants to make a list for EVERYTHING and I never saw the need for it. He gets frustrated by this. I also hate how he tells me what time it is all the time and tries to remind me of things. I feel like he's over-babying me in a way. I know an ESFj would like this very much, as my ESFj mom always asks him what time it is. Me, I innately know anyway so when somebody tells me what time it is I kinda feel like I don't know, they're not really respecting me.

[Slacker]

I don't think my mom treats my brother better than my sister and me even though they're duals. But then my sister is her semi-dual, and I'm her benefactor, so none of them are bad relationships. She doesn't fight with my brother and sister though and she and I fight pretty regularly. Not so much now that I'm grown up and living somewhere else.

[Expat]

she and I fight pretty regularly. Not so much now that I'm grown up and living somewhere else.

What about, basically?

[aestrivex]

Yes I'm sure he 'loves everybody the same' but there's a closer psychological distance.

an LII doesn't "love everybody the same;" that's a typical Fe trait, and to an LII that sort of think doesn't even make sense.

[Slacker]

she and I fight pretty regularly. Not so much now that I'm grown up and living somewhere else.

What about, basically?

1. My parenting. I am not strict enough. Although she admits that my daughter is well behaved. Still, I shouldn't let her dilly-dally or whatever. Like, we went to this amusement park, and my parents kept talking up this kids area, but when we finally got to the kids area, my parents gave her like 15 minutes and then said, "She's had enough time, we have to go now." I said no, we drove separately and if you want to go, you go, but I'm not taking her out of here after she's only had 15 minutes to play. She was having a good time and there was no emergency other than their impatience. They can't just sit and relax - they're always thinking about where they have to be. But this translates as me being too indulgent.

2. My husband. He doesn't pay enough attention to me. He doesn't pay enough attention to our daughter. He doesn't buy me presents or anything like that. He spends too much money on car parts and tools. He spends too much time in the garage and racing. He should do more around the house. His priorities are wrong. She seems to think he doesn't take "important things" seriously enough, whatever these important things are. Whatever.

3. Unsolicited advice unrelated to points 1 or 2. Well I guess most is about 1 or 2. Or, and this DRIVES ME CRAZY, she'll like make plans that require me to be involved, and expect me to re-arrange my whole life around her but won't ask me ahead of time about it, and she'll consider me to be obligated to do it even though she didn't ask me about it ahead of time. Also, she doesn't usually come right out and say something - it's done more a little more subtly. Like, "Where is he? Is he racing AGAIN? Does he ever spend time with the two of you on the weekends?"

[Expat]

Like, we went to this amusement park, and my parents kept talking up this kids area, but when we finally got to the kids area, my parents gave her like 15 minutes and then said, "She's had enough time, we have to go now." I said no, we drove separately and if you want to go, you go, but I'm not taking her out of here after she's only had 15 minutes to play. She was having a good time and there was no emergency other than their impatience. They can't just sit and relax - they're always thinking about where they have to be. But this translates as me being too indulgent.

Ah. Two Ni EJs with Si PoLR. I don't think it was about your daughter, it was really about their inability to relax and the need to get going.

2. My husband. He doesn't pay enough attention to me. He doesn't pay enough attention to our daughter. He doesn't buy me presents or anything like that. He spends too much money on car parts and tools. He spends too much time in the garage and racing. He should do more around the house. His priorities are wrong. She seems to think he doesn't take "important things" seriously enough, whatever these important things are. Whatever.

It's the difference between Se-Ni and Si-Ne.

Or, and this DRIVES ME CRAZY, she'll like make plans that require me to be involved, and expect me to re-arrange my whole life around her but won't ask me ahead of time about it, and she'll consider me to be obligated to do it even though she didn't ask me about it ahead of time. Also, she doesn't usually come right out and say something - it's done more a little more subtly. Like, "Where is he? Is he racing AGAIN? Does he ever spend time with the two of you on the weekends?"

Hmmm.

[zenbrat]

My parents are duals. They only lasted about 2 1/2 years.

I am my mother's identical and my father's dual.

My half-sister is my dual (and dual to my mother, of course). My sister and I were very, very close in childhood but we suck at keeping in touch now. However, when we do talk, that familiar yin-yang dynamic settles in immediately.

My oldest son is my dual and identical to my father. They are deeply bonded. My son/father and I understand each other and relate effortlessly. Lots of power struggles though.

A bevy of betas... power trips, blowouts and tears - oh my!

The INFp identicals feel an uncomfortable, defenseless transparency. They see the worst parts of themselves in the other. Lots of mutual disgust (shame?) but still drawn to each others inherent understanding when in pain.

The ESTp identicals adore one another, taking pride in the similarities. Basically, admiring their own reflection. Always seeking to please each other with desirable behaviors.

ESTp-INFp duality is painful to watch... it's supposed to be symbiotic but it's desperately parasitic. Very unhealthy. It feeds (and feeds on) narcissistic complexes on both sides.

.

[ScarlettLux]

My parents are duals. They only lasted about 2 1/2 years.

I am my mother's identical and my father's dual.

My half-sister is my dual (and dual to my mother, of course). My sister and I were very, very close in childhood but we suck at keeping in touch now. However, when we do talk, that familiar yin-yang dynamic settles in immediately.

My oldest son is my dual and identical to my father. They are deeply bonded. My son/father and I understand each other and relate effortlessly. Lots of power struggles though.

A bevy of betas... power trips, blowouts and tears - oh my!

The INFp identicals feel an uncomfortable, defenseless transparency. They see the worst parts of themselves in the other. Lots of mutual disgust (shame?) but still drawn to each others inherent understanding when in pain.

The ESTp identicals adore one another, taking pride in the similarities. Basically, admiring their own reflection. Always seeking to please each other with desirable behaviors.

ESTp-INFp duality is painful to watch... it's supposed to be symbiotic but it's desperately parasitic. Very unhealthy. It feeds (and feeds on) narcissistic complexes on both sides.

.

Really? This sounds very interesting. I'd like to know more, if you'd care to elaborate on how this duality is so painful?

[tiny_dancer]

Hey all,

Just what this forum needs: another enfp! Thought I'd introduce myself... oh, and I brought the body of my dead relationship as a peace offering *heaves large istp onto stack*

I'm relatively new to socionics, but I'm pretty sure my grandfather was an istp (and grandmother enfp). I always had a particular soft spot for him, even though he had a reputation for being a hardass and actively avoided myself and my rowdy sisters when we were around. I always attributed him as the reason that istps are the only guys who really make any lasting impression on me (experiencing duality when you're young and all..). We didn't really have that much of a relationship, though, because he passed away when I was 13. I always thought he particularly liked me too, but it could have been the fact that I was a granddaughter who was actually interested in power tools...

I do think it's true that people who have duals in their lives very young are drawn to those personalities again.

'Course after my most recent dating experience and knowing 2 people who are married to them, I'm debating whether I could actually date one again or not (sorry, istps). So I imagine the positive vs. negative aspects can have an impact on how you view the whole duality thing...We'll see how that shakes out for me.

[Blaze]

My parents are duals. They only lasted about 2 1/2 years.

I am my mother's identical and my father's dual.

My half-sister is my dual (and dual to my mother, of course). My sister and I were very, very close in childhood but we suck at keeping in touch now. However, when we do talk, that familiar yin-yang dynamic settles in immediately.

My oldest son is my dual and identical to my father. They are deeply bonded. My son/father and I understand each other and relate effortlessly. Lots of power struggles though.

A bevy of betas... power trips, blowouts and tears - oh my!

The INFp identicals feel an uncomfortable, defenseless transparency. They see the worst parts of themselves in the other. Lots of mutual disgust (shame?) but still drawn to each others inherent understanding when in pain.

The ESTp identicals adore one another, taking pride in the similarities. Basically, admiring their own reflection. Always seeking to please each other with desirable behaviors.

ESTp-INFp duality is painful to watch... it's supposed to be symbiotic but it's desperately parasitic. Very unhealthy. It feeds (and feeds on) narcissistic complexes on both sides.

.

Really? This sounds very interesting. I'd like to know more, if you'd care to elaborate on how this duality is so painful?

yeah, i'd like to hear more about this too. is it like the sopranos or something?

[zenbrat]

My parents are duals. They only lasted about 2 1/2 years.

I am my mother's identical and my father's dual.

My half-sister is my dual (and dual to my mother, of course). My sister and I were very, very close in childhood but we suck at keeping in touch now. However, when we do talk, that familiar yin-yang dynamic settles in immediately.

My oldest son is my dual and identical to my father. They are deeply bonded. My son/father and I understand each other and relate effortlessly. Lots of power struggles though.

A bevy of betas... power trips, blowouts and tears - oh my!

The INFp identicals feel an uncomfortable, defenseless transparency. They see the worst parts of themselves in the other. Lots of mutual disgust (shame?) but still drawn to each others inherent understanding when in pain.

The ESTp identicals adore one another, taking pride in the similarities. Basically, admiring their own reflection. Always seeking to please each other with desirable behaviors.

ESTp-INFp duality is painful to watch... it's supposed to be symbiotic but it's desperately parasitic. Very unhealthy. It feeds (and feeds on) narcissistic complexes on both sides.

.

Really? This sounds very interesting. I'd like to know more, if you'd care to elaborate on how this duality is so painful?

yeah, i'd like to hear more about this too. is it like the sopranos or something?

INFp expends a great deal of time/energy justifying the ESTp's actions in order to accept (i.e. forgive) the ESTp for what they cannot change about themselves: lack of empathy. The INFp gets worn out and frustrated, complains to the ESTp. The ESTp tells INFp that (s)he is just being silly and never, ever, ever apologizes (or changes anything).

INFp's always leave, eventually. It's just too draining and thankless.

.

[Megan]

That sounds like ESTp with INFj rather than with INFp.

[zenbrat]

INFj would spend a lot of time correcting, not justifying.

[Blaze]

INFp expends a great deal of time/energy justifying the ESTp's actions in order to accept (i.e. forgive) the ESTp for what they cannot change about themselves: lack of empathy. The INFp gets worn out and frustrated, complains to the ESTp. The ESTp tells INFp that (s)he is just being silly and never, ever, ever apologizes (or changes anything).

INFp's always leave, eventually. It's just too draining and thankless.

this sounds exactly like my estp ex. i would get frustrated over his inability to take responsibility for his part in interactions and his tendency to constantly place all the blame on me and dominate. we really came to blows and got into power struggles. i would have to say i got toughened up by him. but you are right it is exhausting dealing with an estp after awhile. but i bet he would say similar things about me.

with 2 EP temperaments, our lives had a frenetic, stressed out quality to it, with no peace really. we were able to achieve a lot of goals together, but were unable to take care of one another and the relationship. it was a very externally oriented relationship.

although, a couple of weeks ago, he started lashing out at me on the phone and making threats. i called him back and told him that was totally destructive. he actually apologized. since then i've decided to keep it all business with him. it's working. let him complain to his infp about his resentments and worries.

zenbrat, is this kind of what you are talking about?

[zenbrat]

INFp expends a great deal of time/energy justifying the ESTp's actions in order to accept (i.e. forgive) the ESTp for what they cannot change about themselves: lack of empathy. The INFp gets worn out and frustrated, complains to the ESTp. The ESTp tells INFp that (s)he is just being silly and never, ever, ever apologizes (or changes anything).

INFp's always leave, eventually. It's just too draining and thankless.

this sounds exactly like my estp ex. i would get frustrated over his inability to take responsibility for his part in interactions and his tendency to constantly place all the blame on me and dominate....

zenbrat, is this kind of what you are talking about?

That's it, exactly. It is always your fault, no matter what. Period. ESTp doesn't seem to grasp that this attitude exacerbates conflict. I would be less frustrated with a person who admits some fault and apologizes sincerely, even if they never change.

I often wonder if they think about what we say later on and realize "ok yea, I was being an ass". I always hope they do, but I kinda doubt it. Apologies are rare - very, very rare. Congrats

.

[Blaze]

INFp expends a great deal of time/energy justifying the ESTp's actions in order to accept (i.e. forgive) the ESTp for what they cannot change about themselves: lack of empathy. The INFp gets worn out and frustrated, complains to the ESTp. The ESTp tells INFp that (s)he is just being silly and never, ever, ever apologizes (or changes anything).

INFp's always leave, eventually. It's just too draining and thankless.

this sounds exactly like my estp ex. i would get frustrated over his inability to take responsibility for his part in interactions and his tendency to constantly place all the blame on me and dominate....

zenbrat, is this kind of what you are talking about?

That's it, exactly. It is always your fault, no matter what. Period. ESTp doesn't seem to grasp that this attitude exacerbates conflict. I would be less frustrated with a person who admits some fault and apologizes sincerely, even if they never change.

I often wonder if they think about what we say later on and realize "ok yea, I was being an ass". I always hope they do, but I kinda doubt it. Apologies are rare - very, very rare. Congrats

.

i'm surprised to hear what your saying, not because estp's are not like this but since your type is dual to estp. i guess even dual relations can go south.

[zenbrat]

I think duality promotes understanding so that relations can become more stable over time. I don't think it leads to conflict free relationships. Actually, in the intertype relations descriptions, quite a bit is written about conflict between duals. It emphasizes that conflicts are easily resolved without major psychological damage - not that they do not occur.

The ESTp-INFp duality hits an impass because ESTp believes they are always right; INFp believes they are never understood. They both have to back off of trying to influence and convince the other, directly, and allow it to occur indirectly. No small feat for such stubborn personalities.

[BLauritson]

It emphasizes that conflicts are easily resolved without major psychological damage - not that they do not occur.

Agreed. I've written elsewhere that a close ESFp friend of mine has (unintentionally) done something to offend me a few times in the past, but unlike with most people I've never held a grudge against her for it and actually let go of them easily. I've literally fantasised about brutally murdering others who've offended me in the past, but this has never been the case with ESFps IME.

[Jarno]

I've had an argue with my dual. But somehow you always want to apologize.

[Blaze]

I think duality promotes understanding so that relations can become more stable over time. I don't think it leads to conflict free relationships. Actually, in the intertype relations descriptions, quite a bit is written about conflict between duals. It emphasizes that conflicts are easily resolved without major psychological damage - not that they do not occur.

The ESTp-INFp duality hits an impass because ESTp believes they are always right; INFp believes they are never understood. They both have to back off of trying to influence and convince the other, directly, and allow it to occur indirectly. No small feat for such stubborn personalities.

huh. infp never feels understood? that's interesting....infp man always talks about seeking understanding. yet he is really cryptic when he talks, he kind of makes you ask a ton of questions so you get what he means. good thing i like a great puzzle....because this really draws me and my Ti in....

[munenori2]

Some of these typings I'm not totally sure about, but...

I supervise my dad and am my mom's look a like.
My brother is my dad's comparative and my mom supervises him.
My sister is my mom's contrary and my dad's quasi identical.

I would be fascinated to know for certain, but I think:

My twin brother is an INTj, making us look-a-likes.
My younger sister is an INTj (though in some respects, she sometimes also represents ISFj)
My youngest sister is an ESFp, making her my supervisor.
My dad I believe is an ISFj, making him an activity relation.
And I think my mom is an ESTj, that being a dual relation.

I would say my mother and I are pretty close. We tend to more or less just relax around each other. She often shows a real curiousness in the wide variety of things I fascinate myself with, even when she personally might not be interested. She also tends to ask me for advice, usually about how to deal with people. For her part, she tends to take over the details I often tend to ignore, such as doing taxes or remembering to schedule a haircut every now and then. I certainly appreciate all she does.

[Elwood]

My Mother is my dual (ESFJ) and I'm an only child. When I was in my younger childhood (about birth to 12) we got along great and I loved being around her. Recent events though have created a distance between us. Her complete lack of logical thought irritates me to no end. A few years ago a particular event caused her to have a mental breakdown, she turned to alcohol as a result. This, in turn, affected my state of mind since she's the only family member I have in the state. I became depressed and started to cope with it by disconnecting from reality and playing video games from the time I woke up until the time I fell asleep, completely neglecting any homework I had. For a couple of years my confidence was low and I wasn't able to think in a focused and logical manner. It's only within the past 9 months or so that I have been able to slowly rebuild my confidence, reclaim my patience and maintain my focus. Last year was the worst, I was frequently truent from school and I spent most of my time in bed, in an effort to avoid the world (video games had become unavailable). This is how deeply my mother and I affect each other.

As far as how this relationship has affected my development as an individual, I think that it's helped me to empathize with people, adhere to social norms a little bit better and fade into the background in order to make it easier for me to achieve my goals. I am able to act warm and friendly in a social atmosphere without putting too much effort into it. She and I get along fine most of the time, but she and I still have fights from time to time because of how illogical she tends to act in a situation that demands some common sense. However, I don't really open up to her anymore since she tends to get hot-headed and use whatever knowledge she has of me, against me, whenever we get in a fight. That, and she has fucked me over quite a few times and she also has a tendency to lie. Despite this, I still love her very much.

[crazedrat]

But you can always find the tendencies you hate in your dual, hidden in yourself.