Mine has never initiated a relationship with anyone, and it seems like it's something that would be common for an INTj. Do INTjs generally tend to let the other person initiate relationships?
Do LIIs-INTjs feel comfortable initiating relationships?
Mine has never initiated a relationship with anyone, and it seems like it's something that would be common for an INTj. Do INTjs generally tend to let the other person initiate relationships?
Ironically, there are alot of guys like this ... all of the girls I have been involved with, they initiated or I usedto tease them into initiating. I have never initiated anything with a girl in my life.
With INTjs it could be because of the passivity of theirand not wanting to be forceful. Atleast it is that way according to theory.
I'd definitely prefer the other person making the first move. However, there comes a point where I simply cannot hold back any longer and communicate my feelings in some way -- but it's extremely difficult and dangerous.
I(N)Tj
With Josh it seemed like he was too awkward to feel comfortable and didn't care enough to try anyways. The only time I know of that he did anything even close to making a move on someone was when he got drunk and told me sister that he loved her.
INTjs just don't seem to relate to others well. They seem to not have much interest in most people, and when there is a person they're very interested in, taking those first several dozen steps in the relationship most likely won't come naturally. But my INTj also has Asperger's Syndrome, so perhaps some of this observation has more to do with that...
alcohol
But Pedro, aren't all types afraid of rejection?
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
Most people, sureOriginally Posted by cjcoldmine
But types with Fi in their super-ego are afraid of people getting close to them while people with Fe in their super-ego are afraid of beng alone.
I'm not afraid of initial rejection at all. In the past I more afraid of abandonment, and now I don't know know if I'm afraid of that kind of stuff or not.
That is the way I am, rejection never really has bothered me ... But I do have a fear of investing feelings in someone only for them to totally abandon me or start treating me like I am insignifigant; the basic effects of a PoLR...
Okay... new question about INTjs... well, and I guess about any type as well.
Do you think it's much easier to communicate feelings through affection rather than through words, particularly in the beginning stages of a relationship?
Abandonment makes me most emo -- namely abandonment driven by 'circumstances'. Graduating high school, graduating college. Perhaps I'm too much of a romantic, but I believe these can be easily overcome.
It's rejection that makes me wary of doing things...
What's the difference between rejection and abandonment?
Both suddenly deny you access to their hearts or lives. I suppose it's called abandonment once a certain investment has been made.
There are times for both words and affection. I try with words, however, when it comes to saying "I like(+) you" for the first time, the best solution I've come up with is simply grabbing their hand.
I(N)Tj
affection and deeds over words, any day.
As for that fear of rejection thing.. I dunno. I hate putting myself out there. I hate the reprocussions of failure. Because of the way I am, if I approach someone and they're not interested, then they can brag about it: "big j wanted some of this. but none for him. what a loser." lol. Thats not the type of gossip I want going around about me. Because with people I don't know, its a weird kind of power, and with people I know, things get awkward. heh.
But that has afforded me some smarts in the area. Maximizing possibility of success, minimizing risk: become yourself, completely, then ask someone you are almost 100% sure likes you. LOL. It works. And its all formality from that point on.
thing.
Huh?Fear of rejection? Why would anyone be afraid of being rejected?
They are plenty of better things to be afraid of, like diabetes, serial killers, and politicians.
I'm 23, and I've never been in a serious relationship in real life.Would an INTj rather initiate a relationship or would most rather allow the other person to initiate it?
I do have an online girlfriend right now (the first in years). She (ENFP) initiated it mostly, although before that I had dropped a few hints to her that I wouldn't be averse to a relationship (after she showed interest in me and I was also interested in her).
INTJ
My INTj was always like that too. Still is, with everyone but me. That's the key... I knew that he didn't like being in physical contact with people, so the fact that he was so affectionate in the earliest stages of the relationsip caught me off gaurd. It was a very pleasant suprise.i am not sure... i would say yes... now... but in the past i would have been leery i think. i used to be one of those intjs who jumped when you touched them. just an instinctual reaction
Are most INTjs adverse to touch?
I don't mind getting hugs from people that I'm reasonably familiar with.Are most INTjs adverse to touch?
Apparently I have this tendency to take the hug passively (i.e. standing with my arms to my side, not hugging back) though.
INTJ
That's what Josh does to his family.
For me too it's not aversion
Are you kiddin me? Who doesn't enjoy to be hugged or kissed?
As an INTj I can conlude the following:
I'm more likely to "play the field" over the net then in a socially hostile environment that is a crowded club or bar. Yes, I go out every weekend but it's the same old story where I naturally enforce my introverted nature in a place where I feel uncomfortable to be extrospective as your expected to be.
I'm still going out every weekend in the hopes that I will find a strategy for breaking the ice and conquering not so much my fear of approaching the ladies but my fear of my fears.
One problem is that I get too intuitive about the whole process, I find it very difficult to just live for the moment, throw caution to the wind and just do it.
Inaction is just resulting in more fear of my fears and more regrets of "why did I go out when I knew the way things would go?" dillemma.
Maybe I just need one night where I actually do get quite drunk, it could be expensive and bad for my health but it might just be worth it.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
snowyc: I understand what you mean about your social fears. But the action is the only way to fight them back
Definetely is not an aversionJoy wrote:
Are most INTjs adverse to touch?
I think INTj's just don't know how to respond to this kind of social interaction. They feel uneasy with their own body and it doesn't come naturally for them.
For me I've got this fear that I might look ridiculous somehow so I prefer to avoid it
I also sometimes have to ask someone "how do I look?", "is this suitable for a club?" etc.
it's the whole "should i go as myself?" or dress for the occassion dillemma. I could dress in a way that didn't reflect my personality i.e. more relaxed but then i wouldn't actually feel any more relaxed.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
yes snowyc I'll say it's better to just be yourself, that's the best we can do
I also feel more confident when I wear something which fits my style, regardless of the occasion or how I ought to be dressed
but again if we try to look like someone else it would only shatter the little confidence
I really think we should learn to be ostentatious with our tastes as this would attract people's attention and this way we would become more aware of our bodily existence and therefore more confident.
maybe i'm just mad but i don't consider shyness to be the same as introversion. maybe it's just the layman's definition for someone who doesn't approach people. as an outgoing introvert my brain goes into a different mode then when i'm in private with friends, the need to talk decreases, the need to cocoon myself increases.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
So you consider yourself rather shy than an introvert?
Anyway I think even the most shy or introvert person can be very sociable in a friendly atmosphere. And here is the problem, that we are hyper-sensitive at the environment which we cannot control or predict
So from here derives all the fear, the insecurity
yes plus even when i'm tipsy i'm still trying to maintain my self control.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
i hate it when i'm out with my ENTp friend who thinks he's doing me a favour by going over to a girl (not for his own chatting up mind you) but to ask them to "chat to my friend over there, he's shy..." (me) and i don't think it matters if she's extroverted since she approaches me with as much loss for words as i feel being put off guard.
Introversion is an orientation - "Shyness" is the symptom - Misunderstanding is the result
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
The two worst:
"Why don't you ever talk?" Well, maybe I don't want to talk to you?!
"You talk too much." Heh heh, well that's clever.
*"grr" emoticon<*
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
In a socially hostile environment e.g. a crowded bar with little room to breathe, to be introvert is to not get "jazzed" up by the people regardless of how extrospective you are being by placing yourself into an extroverted situation, you are at best, an outgoing-introvert. If i knew any better I wouldn't go out every weekend expecting a result, what result am I looking for? It's hard enough to small talk online let alone in public. I'm not exactly on the pull, i'm too modest. As an introvert i have a natural tendency to be passive. I believe one reason i have trouble letting loose is the fact that i'm a long range strategic thinker who finds it futile to have the night as a bit of here-and-now pointless fun. Why does their have to be a point to my socialising? If there isn't one, i'll create one e.g. i'll tell myself i'm here to observe Socionics in action or something or, so this is where the sheep hang out.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
I don't go out in the first place for the most part.i hate it when i'm out with my ENTp friend who thinks he's doing me a favour by going over to a girl
INTJ
yes, ISFp's are the key - the true outgoing-introvert, still passive but they certainly are there to enjoy themselves...they usually attract guys to dance with them but i doubt they're their duals.
My ISTp friend however says little all night but gets attention by having his private-public dances. He's almost like a male ISFp if it was stereotypically acceptable for a "loose woman" in a club to approach the guy.
Maybe, just maybe, if we get enough introverts in a crowded club, they'll feel energised. No that's just crap.
I've conditioned myself to go out regardless of how I feel thanks mostly to my ENTp "mirror" friend who shares similar social problems but he's obviously on the hunt for that elusive ISFp we see plenty of each week.
BTW, he's ignorant of Socionics, I find reason to go out just to wind him up and say "she's your type, that blonde over there". Given that i'm your stereotypical INTj who finds small talk difficult and socialising without purpose, pointless... why am I still persisting? because a) i have my arm twisted by my ENTp friend b) i like going out with a group of introverts, i get strength from it somehow c) i think too myself, "you want to be a social scientist don't you, you have to study your subjects up close and (im)personal" hehe.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
Sometimes I think it's like a challenge, like looking in the mirror and seeing my pathetically shy self and saying "Ha! I can do better than that!"
Re Original topic:
Okay, I'm detirmined to take this on.
I've made a vow to myself that I will ask that ESFj out the very next time I see him. Not ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions.... (
I don't really think he is interested, but that's not the point.
I'm only posting this because it'll help hold me to it and you all can scold me if I don't follow through. :wink:
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
Hey, hanging out with people who are worse off than you are always makes you feel better about yourself.Sometimes I think it's like a challenge, like looking in the mirror and seeing my pathetically shy self and saying "Ha! I can do better than that!"
Wow, awesome...good luck!Re Original topic:
Okay, I'm detirmined to take this on.
I've made a vow to myself that I will ask that ESFj out the very next time I see him. Not ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions.... ( I'm already formulating several exceptions right now.)
I don't really think he is interested, but that's not the point.
I'm only posting this because it'll help hold me to it and you all can scold me if I don't follow through.
And you better do it, or else... :wink:
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
Re Original topic:
Okay, I'm detirmined to take this on.
I've made a vow to myself that I will ask that ESFj out the very next time I see him. Not ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions.... (
I don't really think he is interested, but that's not the point.
I'm only posting this because it'll help hold me to it and you all can scold me if I don't follow through. :wink:
Good luck and may the blessings of Elves, Men, ENFPs and all Free Folk go with you!
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Elated? I felt sick after doing that for the first time. But it is good for you, though, especially when you know that you had the guts to ask a super-hot chick out.do it X! i can't tell you how elated i felt the first time i did that (and got shot down of course :wink
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
Hi XcaliburGirl, i just wanted to give you a little "pep talk". The fact that YOU'RE asking HIM in itself is pretty impressive. Not only that, but when guys ask me out, no matter whether i like them or not, i'm very flattered. Which i think is something most ESFjs experience because it makes us feel included and special. If he ends up saying he doesn't feel the same way, i'm sure he'll do a good job of not making you feel dejected. Mad props for asking him though, i dunno if i'd have the guts!!!!
"this shaking keeps me steady. i should know. what falls always is always. and is near. i wake to sleep and taking my waking slow. i learn by going where i have to go." -t. roethke
ENFp!!!
Just do what ENTps do and fiddle with the girls emotions untill she feels so enamored to you that SHE HAS to be around you ... that way, you will never have to ask a girl out because they will always be going out of their way to be around you.Elated? I felt sick after doing that for the first time. But it is good for you, though, especially when you know that you had the guts to ask a super-hot chick out.do it X! i can't tell you how elated i felt the first time i did that (and got shot down of course :wink
And it is easy to do, I can not explain it because I do it naturally. It has something to do with how an ENTp is motivated to use
But, Pedro, then YOU would be the benefit to the other person. :wink:
Thanks for all the encouragement, folks.
Actually I have asked one guy out to lunch and he said yes, but as far as he was concerned, we were just friends. I think I was elated and sick.
I figure two things: 1. the ol' "If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten." Waiting around for the guy to ask hasn't gotten me diddly-squat. 2. Even if he says "no", I can file him in my "friend" category and get over him (though I think I shall still swoon everytime I see him in turnout gear
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
I don't like the way the question is being asked. I don't feel comfortable in any of the two situations. If I really like the girl, I do take the initiative. I also lose my sense of rationality.Would an INTj rather initiate a relationship or would most rather allow the other person to initiate it?
- INTjs don't mind (or prefer) making the first move
- INTjs are generally more comfortable if the other person makes the first move
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