See, Rocky understands ... it is about the girl seeing something in you and feeling motivated to act as opposed to writting smancy smacy love letters [crappyOriginally Posted by Rocky
But, Pedro, then YOU would be the benefit to the other person. :wink:agenda, glad I do not have that!] or sitting around like some passive waddling duck like most INTjs do.
Ah, so THAT is how the ENTp I know conned me into telling him I liked him. Very interesting. I totally fell for it. So naive, so naive. *sigh*Just do what ENTps do and fiddle with the girls emotions untill she feels so enamored to you that SHE HAS to be around you ... that way, you will never have to ask a girl out because they will always be going out of their way to be around you.
And it is easy to do, I can not explain it because I do it naturally. It has something to do with how an ENTp is motivated to use.
ISFp, SiFe,
rmcnew, can you give a few examples of how you fiddle with a girl's emotions to get them to become enamored with you?
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
I don't think you quite understand the Fi hidden agenda. It is very VERY hard for xLI types to express their emotions, especially in things like love letters. Even thinking about expressing my emotions makes me cringe.See, Rocky understands ... it is about the girl seeing something in you and feeling motivated to act as opposed to writting smancy smacy love letters [crappyThat's something that an IEI would more likely do.
I think he means more along the lines of being nice to the girl one day, then blow them off completely the next. Act like you like them, then act like you don't. Then forcing the girl to admit that she likes you by teasing her about liking you. Then act like you don't care. All that crap.
Yup ... there were copy/pasted from another forum, which shall remain nameless.
Tonight I was in the library and I noticed that about 15 foreign exchange students, who were all girls except for one guy, were huddled over at a table at the far end of the library.
I felt like conversing to them, so I walked over to the table and immediatelly about half of them noted my presence with smiles and said "hi" to me.
I remembered from talking to one of the exchange students earlier at lunch that they were having a test on "fruits and vegitables" and used that as an opening line...
Me: Studying for fruits and vegitables, eh?
Guy: Yes, how did yoiu know this?
Me: Well, because I know everything
Even with their slightly limited ability to speak english, every single one of them found that funny and cracked up. Even the hottest girl in group looked at me and laughed.
I continued..
Me: I know all of the world's answers! Ask me anything and I can tell you...
Well, the hottest girl in the group, by my standards, obviously found that intrigueing.
Her: (hottest girl) Why don't you start by telling me your name??
I started to feel some anxiety at the point, because she put me on the spot and I wasn't expecting the hottest girl there to respond to anything I was saying. But frankly she did and I was forced to respond somehow. I just didn't feel quite comfortable at that moment.
Me: Hmmm, I'm not psychic... Cya guys...
I'm not sure how she took that as I just walked out at that point. I don't know if it was the right thing to say because I spoke from my gut, not my head. What I really feel like doing is catching here when she is alone and continuing the conversation by giving her my name. It might had been a good idea since I could need some of the other girls later on and choosing her on the spot would have made them give up on me.
Every wednesday night here at the university I attend the dean always does something for the students that stick around for the summer. Tonight, we had some sort of party/social thing where they served donuts and nachos at the girl's dorm. I figured it might be a good prime opportunity to practice on some of the girls who were there and maybe get some numbers or catch some interest.
I talk to some friends for a while, when this girl I notice I havn't seen before walks in and says:
(note: I probably sound like a real a-hole by just taking this text as it appears in face value. I've had girls tell me while I've been busting their balls that they have absolutly no clue whether they think that I am serious or kidding around [,this is a VERY good thing in my book].Keeps them on their toes.)
Her: Ohh nachos, this doesn't have any hot sauce in it does it?
Me: Tasted fine to me, why?
Her: Well, hot sauce sort of makes me nauseous
Me: Really?
Me: Well, how do you not know there isn't some taco bell sauce hidden somewhere
in there?
Me: I mean like, the REALLY HOT HOT KIND....
Her: Ummm, well, if there was any of that hot sauce in there I would probably
smell it...
Me: Hmmm, time for an experiment..
Me: (says to attendants) is there any of that taco bell sauce lying around
anywhere?
Me: You know, the REALLY REALLY HOT HOT KIND....
Attendant: No, sorry, but I think we have some other type of hot sauce lying
around...
Me: Man, I'm dissapointed... I figured a well rounded party like this would have
some taco bell hot sauce.
(girl walks out door, guy reaches for last donut in a box)
Me: ohhh, there's one donut left....
(grab donut, guy has to go to another open box)
Me: I'm sorry, I just took the last donut...
Me: Wait, no I'm not. The last donut is always the tastiest..
Me: Simpley because it's the last donut, and it's even more tastier when people
are licking their lips wanting some.
(walk out the door)
Her: (asking someone) Have you guys seen that alex guy and his friend jt? you'd
figure they would be here.
Me: Ohh, you mean the big fat guy and his friend.
Her: Yeah, that's him...
Her: You're funny
Me: I don't know why that's funny.
Me: I would have thought that he'd be the first person here.
(Gets really interested look on her face)
Her: You show absolutly no mercy, do you?
Me: You have absolutly no idea, do you?
Her: What's your name?
Me: *says name*
Her: Nice name..
Me: Well, I have to go... (and I did, I was late for practice)
Her: Hey, do you know what we're doing next week?
Me: I don't know, ask the dean what they have planned
Her: I heard we are going to six flags, maybe I will see you there?
Me: K, cya...
Well, that could have gone better towards the end except that I had to go and I could have gotten some kino or better. She lives in the dorm so I'll be sure to bump into her again sometime
[at some restaurant, girl goes to eat a breadstick]
[Got a big ass smile on my face showing teeth first]
You: Stop! I can't let you do that.
Her: [stops and looks at me]
You: Do you have any idea what you are doing to yourself! I can't bear the thought! Do you have any clue why?
Her: No [continues looking at me strangely]
You: That *food item* is loaded with a *TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of FAT!*
[continues looking at me strangely]
Me: You've already had two of THOSE HORRIBLY FATTENING BREADSTICKS, your hips are going to bloat up like a hippo! You'll get fat, I'm warning you!
Her: Do you want my breadsticks?
Me: Never! I'm watching my weight and maintaining my figure.
Her: [sticks the breadsticks on my plate and then leaves for the car]
Me: Wait, I don't want these!
[Head out to the car myself and get in]
Her: Tell me if I start bloating up and explode, ok?
Me: Okkkk, but it's not going to look pretty after eating THOSE HORRIBLY FATTENING BREADSTICKS.
Her: would you like a stick of gum?
Me: Looks fattening. How many calories does that have?
[we both start cracking up]
Her: I don't know, let me look at the package.
Me: I don't know, man, I can take it but I'm going to have to do a lot of exercise afterwards. [take stick of gum]
Her: You know, I hope we have classes next semester at school. You're so concerned about my feminine hips and body shape!
Me: Yeah, it'd be cool
[she starts touching my shoulder]
[One week later wants me to watch to stars with her a 3am!]
Last night while I was going to the fitness center, I rode with 4 girls who would constantly try to ask me personal questions and kept giving me cute nicknames the entire time we were there.
The tagged me as an intelligent person and wondered if I was some sort of computer person. I'd just give them cocky funny answers to everything they said to me the entire time, but wouldn't give them direct answers to their questions.
Like for example....
Girl: what color do you like?
Me: I don't play favorites. I like them all, they are like my children.
Girl: Are you dating?
Me:Hmm, these are personal questions..
Girl: Do you have a girlfriend?
Me: Yeah, I carry her around in a card-board box; she's the mini variety.
Girl: Are you married, then?
Me: Not anymore! I want a divorce...
Girl: From me?
Me: [sarcastic]I just can't handle the abuse anymore....
Girl: So what did you do tonight?
Me: I saw the sights, met new people, explored my options...
Girl: Do you have a car?
Me: I remember back in the day that I didn't have wheels. It sort of sucked.
Girl: [excited expression and voice tone] do you ever take any passengers?
Me: When they are out to do the things I like to do, yes.
Girl: Where do you go?
Me: As long as they enjoy my company and I enjoy theirs that's insignifigant.
After about a half hour of this they eventually started begging me for direct answers and said that I was elusive and mysterious, and were always hanging around me the entire time.
Well, tonight I ran into all of them at a school party and I struck up a conversation with them, and I told them I use to be a computer science major, and they reconfirmed that I looked intelligent.
I wasn't doing the cocky funny as much, so I asked them if they ment intelligent as in "intelligent intelligent" or "only intelligent".
One of the girls said that she would be content with whatever I perfered (escape question)
I said "intelligent intillegent is what I perfered" and walked off.
Well, I walked back by them to go to the water fountain and two started to folllow me to direct me back to their group saying"
Girls: Ohhh, come back with us, all the people are in the other direction.
They blocked my path to the water fountain so I said:
Me: Wow, do you two make a hobby of following me around? You know, for stalker girls you two are pretty cute..
They giggled and ran off, and didn't say much of anything else to me the rest of the night except for a hello or two.
I think I did alright, except that I'm not really interested in the girls and was basically using them for practice.
They seem to find me interesting atleast.
Well, I just got back from this party, and I noticed that there was this girl there that was scoping me out from the other side of the room while I was walking outside the door. I came back and she asked me:
Her: Do you have ADD?
Me: What?
Her: You know, ADD ... Attention Deficit disorder?
Me: Why are you asking me that?
Her: I noticed you were getting up alot and going to the bathroom ...
Me: Boy, you're observant tonight
Her: So do you?
Me: No, no I'm not. You see, that can be due to any number of reasons, such as maybe I am resetless, or maybe I just have a lot of important things on my mind.
Her: Are you getting an attitude with me?
Me: [sarcastically] Me, ohh no, not me ... I'm so sweet after all.
Me: What do you think?
Her: I think that you need someone to talk to, you know, then maybe you'll earn some browny points from me.
Me: Really, are those something I need? Are browny points the standard currency now?
Her: No, but if you want to talk some browny point with me are here for the taking.
Me: I'm going to be quiet now.
Her: Ok ....
[FIVE MINUTES LATER]
*I noticed that she keeped looking at me from the corner of her eye, I look bac k at her and catch her gaze, she then looks away and giggles*
*walking over and sitting besides her looking at her face*
Me: What do you see?
Her: I think you want someone to talk to, and that you have a lot on your mind.
Me: Is that a good or bad thing?
Her: What do you think?
Me: Well, why would it not be?
Her: You just answered my question with a question, I guess that must mean you are also insecure...
Ok, I knew that that had to have been some sort of test, so I just chuckled a little bit at the fact that she just said that I was insecure and went back to watching television.
She came back later and tried taking off my hat when I wasn't looking and smiled and placed it back on when I noticed that she was there and then said "Bye" and left.
This girl has actually been after me for a long time ... When I first met her I flirted with her and she always chased after me in the hallways of the school and made sure I knew who she was.
Oh ok, that makes enough sense. But my problem (which I'm sure is shared by other INTjs) is that I don't talk to any girls. I have never had a female friend before (is that normal?). And I don't talk to a girl unless I like her, but I don't like a girl unless I've been around her/seen her at least a couple of times. But I don't hang around/see any girls. So it's clearly a vicious cycle.
I seriously wonder if I'll ever be in another relationship. If it happens, I'd feel like the luckiest guy on the planet.
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
That is pretty close, except that I just flirt and tease with them until they willfully and indefinatelly give me some sort of emotional or verbal cue. I do not even have to like the girls to do it, all I have really felt interested in is getting an honest heartfelt indication that I am liked.
I think he means more along the lines of being nice to the girl one day, then blow them off completely the next. Act like you like them, then act like you don't. Then forcing the girl to admit that she likes you by teasing her about liking you. Then act like you don't care. All that crap.
Now you know why I do not really have a girlfriend, I have no clue how to make a relationship work besides doing this and I have done it all along. I am trying to learn how to change that since I realized that I am actually doing this, I did not realize that was the way I behaved before I knew about socionics. But, I do and it is defunct and sickening.
ENTps have equally opposite problems it seems ... you should really start forcing yourself to talk to not just girls, but people in general. I know I have gone long-periods where I would not talk to anyone, and it sucked. Do not do that to yourself.
Yup ... there were copy/pasted from another forum, which shall remain nameless.
[... etc., ad nauseam]Somebody's on an ego trip. And you wonder why you can't find decent girls?
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
If you mean INTps, then yes ... I am not so sure about ISTps because I do not hang around them much in person, and the one I did hang around with our relationship got screwed with the semi-dualism acting out.I don't think you quite understand the Fi hidden agenda. It is very VERY hard for xLI types to express their emotions, especially in things like love letters. Even thinking about expressing my emotions makes me cringe.
I am actually trying to meet and keep a girl the right way, but it is hard for me because I am so defunct in general when it comes to relationships. Sometimes I feel like I am just cursed to being forced to just mess around and I know that is not the healthiest thing to do.Yup ... there were copy/pasted from another forum, which shall remain nameless.
[... etc., ad nauseam]
So I found a bad ENTp, eh?bad entps use this tactic too
Yep. That's EXACTLY what they do. This is what the ENTp I know does/did. He'll be around then aloof, then be around again, then aloof. He'll give a girl just enough attention to keep them around, then go off for a while and when he feels like he's losing the girl's attention, he'll do something to get the attention back.
I think he means more along the lines of being nice to the girl one day, then blow them off completely the next. Act like you like them, then act like you don't. Then forcing the girl to admit that she likes you by teasing her about liking you. Then act like you don't care. All that crap.
He'll do things like disclose personal/emotional information, call them, pay attention to them to make the girl seem like she's close to him, and of course girls will eat this up. They'll think they're on the inside track, then he'll do something to push them away only to come right back and be as charming as ever.
The girl finally can't take it anymore so she'll decide to let him know she likes him because she thinks he's insecure and is afraid to ask her out/let her know he likes her. Then when she does tell him she likes him, the game is over and he says he doesn't "feel it."
ISFp, SiFe,
You know rmcnew, a lot of times I wish I had your problem. At least I wouldn't have to worry about being alone/not talking to anyone so often.
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
Or just do not offer ENTps anything ... I once had a girl who was so enamored by me she gave me a copy of her car keys and was always trying to hug me and gave me kisses. If I did not find out she was engaged by that time, I probably would have had a copy of her housekeys before long. It sucks being an ENTp if you want to have relationships, something always just happens to screw everything up.
dstf
No, you do not ... believe me they are equally bad problems in totally mirrored ways. I am just as pessimistic as you are when it comes to actually ever find anyone to marry or have a relationship or anything for that matter.
No, you found a normal ENTp who dragged you along and into his problems. It does not make ENTps evil, just they are totally defunct at relationships and there is no way to change that short of ENTps trying to change themselves for the better. But, that means that they must understand how they are behaving, and most of them do not know what it is they are doing to themselves and others.So I found a bad ENTp, eh?bad entps use this tactic too
I really don't think this ENTp is a bad guy. It's just been frustrating from my end at times. Basically I've had to mentally and emotionally prepare myself for anything so I won't be blindsided.No, you found a normal ENTp who dragged you along and into his problems. It does not make ENTps evil, just they are totally defunct at relationships and there is no way to change that short of ENTps trying to change themselves for the better. But, that means that they must understand how they are behaving, and most of them do not know what it is they are doing to themselves and others.So I found a bad ENTp, eh?bad entps use this tactic too
The interesting thing is that since I've done this, our friendship has gotten a lot better. It seems to have ended the games for the most part (maybe not completely, but I've learned to be on the look out and see through many of them). He knows I'm not expecting anything from him and that I'm not going to create drama. He also knows he's not going to offend me and scare me away. I really think he's started to trust and respect me. A lot of the tension is gone as well and he feels free to talk to me about anything without me expecting anything back from him. He's even started to ask me for advice and input on big life decisions he's thinking about making. I never pushed him, in time he came to me on his own.
I thought I should explain a little more after my previous post so it didn't seem like I was overly bitter and had some sort of grudge against this or other ENTp's, that's far from the truth. There were moments, but after a while I learned his tricks and learned to cope and right now I feel just fine. Honestly, it's been worth the struggle to get to this point of friendship.
ISFp, SiFe,
Now this really sounds encouraging guys. We are all fucked, even in mirror ways!!No, you do not ... believe me they are equally bad problems in totally mirrored ways. I am just as pessimistic as you are when it comes to actually ever find anyone to marry or have a relationship or anything for that matter.
Logical-Intuitive Extravert (ENTj)
TeNi
Well, you can all congratulate me.Okay, I'm detirmined to take this on.
I've made a vow to myself that I will ask that ESFj out the very next time I see him. Not ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions.... (
I don't really think he is interested, but that's not the point.
I'm only posting this because it'll help hold me to it and you all can scold me if I don't follow through. :wink:
I went on a call with him, just the two of us (ok, the patient was there for part of it) and just as he was leaving, I sprung it on him.
Tonight he has to study for his EMT course tomorrow, so we exchanged phone numbers and left it at "Call me when you're free and want to go out."
So, yeah.
Damn, he's hot.
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
Congratulations! I wish I was hanging out with someone enough to like them enough to ask them out. So there is hope for us INTjs. Good job!
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
..poor waddlesworth...
Nice job.
YAY!!!!
"this shaking keeps me steady. i should know. what falls always is always. and is near. i wake to sleep and taking my waking slow. i learn by going where i have to go." -t. roethke
ENFp!!!
dstf
bumpin' it
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Eternal
Nope, but when I do they are lifelong.
2nd place is the 1st loser
Man, just looked at my posts and join date. Sure aint much of a poster.
2nd place is the 1st loser
I notice the age of many of the members mentioned in here are younger.
I am a female in my late 30's.
Most of what I have read in here sounds very much like me, but at the younger age.
Shy to a point that I stay to myself.
Now that I am older, I do find myself far more comfortable in my skin.
Yes, I still have that odd feeling........like I am walking into the middle of a play in which I was not cast when I encounter a room full of people.......
however, I think without realizing it until I read this thread I have found that interacting with the opposite sex (I am now married) became increasingly easier as I matured.
The most comfortable I found myself was when I was intersted in someone......was when I was joking around. Almost challenging them. It reminds me as I think about it more of a little girl on the playground challenging a boy to be a strong as I, playing and laughing.
This behavior NEVER surfaces, unless it is meeting certain criteria....
The person tends to be a very strong ESTJ or ISTJ....and somehow I have found the boy inside of them who is playing along with me.
I NEVER show my vunerablities until they come pouring out of me when I am finally comfortable...and then when they do come out I feel naked, stripped of my armor and notice that I can become almost afraid........and makes me feel like I want my strength again and almost yo-yo between really warm and pretty cool in my affections.
Very odd I know...but eventually.......once the person proves themselves to me, the playful parts seem to settle down though it never really leaves.
Maybe, it is the only way I know to react to my lack of knowing how to deal with all the feelings????
I have no problem initiating....but it is always in a challenging manner......which I think requires a stronger personality on the other side willing to deal with it.
For the romantic ESFjs who stop by,
Yes, LIIs really do need you to take care of their heart.
They need a caregiver, someone to care for them in that situation.
They will just never ask you for it or imply the need it, because they cannot.
I'll just be straight about it and say that I finally realize I do need someone to take care of me in that state. The
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
second that.
i'd rather quell the suggestive function than nurture it. i just see routine Fe immersion as a vice more than anything.For the romantic ESFjs who stop by,
Yes, LIIs really do need you to take care of their heart.
They need a caregiver, someone to care for them in that situation.
They will just never ask you for it or imply the need it, because they cannot.
I'll just be straight about it and say that I finally realize I do need someone to take care of me in that state. The
lol
Absolutely. After one long 'encounter' with an ESE, I resolved to completely remove myself from it, and not let it affect me. But that doesn't change that it is my dual seeking function. I am indeed wary about too much Fe exposure, especially if I am not in a solid relationship. Such would be intolerable and unbearable, and I of course consciously guard against that.i'd rather quell the suggestive function than nurture it. i just see routine Fe immersion as a vice more than anything.
I can't stand it.
It totally destroys everything
But at the same time it seems the only way to a close personal relationship.
I have developed a close relationship with an INFj, however, which is not that way. But that is through maturity and understanding, and less of raw socionics compatibility. The INFj, of course, is spectacular in terms of my mercenary standards, and as such qualified.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
god, fe sucks. solution? you could emulate a dick intp, i guess. it would be cool damaging your own psyche in that way seeing as the esfj reaction to that would be essentially suicidal to a deeply embedded need. maybe the suggestive would just eventually die! someone try this. the more realistic option is to avoid esfjs altogether.
lol
What, are you intoxicated on a friday night like this? Probably.
either that or an ESFj wounded you and you want to cry about it.
And finally, only a coward would run away, or urge others should do the same.
ESFjs are great, and I appreciate their pleasant demeanor and caring ways.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
neither, but good guesses. i wasn't singling them out specifically. Fe is just detrimental more than anything, unless you are completely helpless. duals are a fine wine to be gorged upon later in life. at any other stage they're a distraction from much more important things and they cause a massive sense of self-contentedness followed by complacency. bad. maybe it would be helpful if i noted that i am speaking mainly about romantic relations here, unless of course you feel the same sense of satisfaction from hanging with your esfj dudebros as you do after dropping a big one in the mouth of an female esfj love interest. you should probably quit alpha completely in that case.
lol
you just need some fe ni
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
i might, actually
lol
It's not unfrequent for a LII to initiate when there's other introtims.
LII's may be quite intiating (socially) sometimes. They're interested on leading and controlling the partner. By their- interest on leading the partner, they are "forced" have initiating behaviours.
In fact Talanov has done research and in his tables, ESE's, though outgoing and sociable, aren't that interested in leading or controlling (in contrast to EIE's).
Is that LII a Social Five ?
Social Fives LII's may be shy-looking (in contrast of Intimate Fives).
Fucking stop it.
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
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