Extinguishment/Contrary Relations: stories and experiences

[Simon Ssmall]

IEI I dated was very critical of my actions even if I meant no harm, either way now I don't really try to keep contact anymore (which is not that typical of me) as I got too tired from somehow doing something wrong unintentionally, just annoying feeling but I can't really blame her of anything.

[Creepy-male]

"The introvert partner usually starts suppressing the activity of the extrovert partner and may reproach and criticise them."

Isn't this the dynamic between BnD and myself in a nutshell?

*nostalgia*

Also, on the flipside, I think Akra used to get uncomfortable when I tried to "fix" her.

[Krig the Viking]

@krig I'm sure that he didn't mean to appear as a dick, especially after reading this it makes things more clear. It was just confusing because we were best friends, but when we were around others he was different, and I felt like he would correct me in a way that was intentionally trying to insult me.

Actually, he is kind of a dick, so that adds to it, but of course that's not type related.

It's fascinating to hear an LIE's side of things. My friend has mentioned once or twice that he feels undermined by me (I think this was during a socionics conversation). I've actually seen him physically flinch when I utter the dreaded words: "Well, actually..."

I compare Contrary relations to trying to put two North poles of two magnets together. It seems like it should work, but there's some kind of invisible field keeping them from getting too close, which gets more intense the closer they get.

[Azeroffs]

It may be obvious, but I feel like it needs mentioning. I think the reason why these relations have this problem is because of how we feel about our ignoring function. At least with our PoLR, theoretically we can see how it has some value because of its connection with our base function, the role is required to have a full understanding of the field our base is in, and the demonstrative is rooted in our psyche as much as our base. But the ignoring function is entirely the wrong way to go about doing anything. (e.g. Se base's main focus is a want to control the environment, and Si wants to indulge in it.)

Also, I think introverted functions tend to look for rightness or truth while extroverted functions look for effectiveness or use. So the reason why extroverts are particularly vulnerable is because the introvert has a tendency to focus on what is correct. The extrovert usually disregards those facts, but when the introvert makes it a primary focus, the extrovert has a problem denying them.

[Brilliand]

It may be obvious, but I feel like it needs mentioning. I think the reason why these relations have this problem is because of how we feel about our ignoring function. At least with our PoLR, theoretically we can see how it has some value because of its connection with our base function, the role is required to have a full understanding of the field our base is in, and the demonstrative is rooted in our psyche as much as our base. But the ignoring function is entirely the wrong way to go about doing anything. (e.g. Se base's main focus is a want to control the environment, and Si wants to indulge in it.)

Also, I think introverted functions tend to look for rightness or truth while extroverted functions look for effectiveness or use. So the reason why extroverts are particularly vulnerable is because the introvert has a tendency to focus on what is correct. The extrovert usually disregards those facts, but when the introvert makes it a primary focus, the extrovert has a problem denying them.

That makes sense.

[Krig the Viking]

It may be obvious, but I feel like it needs mentioning. I think the reason why these relations have this problem is because of how we feel about our ignoring function. At least with our PoLR, theoretically we can see how it has some value because of its connection with our base function, the role is required to have a full understanding of the field our base is in, and the demonstrative is rooted in our psyche as much as our base. But the ignoring function is entirely the wrong way to go about doing anything. (e.g. Se base's main focus is a want to control the environment, and Si wants to indulge in it.)

That's along the lines of what I was thinking; I agree.

Also, I think introverted functions tend to look for rightness or truth while extroverted functions look for effectiveness or use. So the reason why extroverts are particularly vulnerable is because the introvert has a tendency to focus on what is correct. The extrovert usually disregards those facts, but when the introvert makes it a primary focus, the extrovert has a problem denying them.

I can see how this makes sense for the rational functions, but what about the irrational ones? Are Si and Ni really more focused on what is correct than Se and Ne? How would this play out?

[Azeroffs]

I can see how this makes sense for the rational functions, but what about the irrational ones? Are Si and Ni really more focused on what is correct than Se and Ne? How would this play out?

ENps are focused on possible outcomes and are shut down by INp's probable outcomes. ESps are focused on doing something quickly and headstrong, but ISps tell them they need to slow down and focus on all the details too.

For all the functions, most of the things extroverted functions focus on are considered and refined by introverted functions. I think of introverted functions as focusing on the observations of things that extroverted functions do.

[redbaron]

ENps are focused on possible outcomes and are shut down by INp's probable outcomes. ESps are focused on doing something quickly and headstrong, but ISps tell them they need to slow down and focus on all the details too.

I can totally see that.

[AQ]

z.

[Azeroffs]

^ that's almost exactly what I was saying

[Blaze]

ENps are focused on possible outcomes and are shut down by INp's probable outcomes. ESps are focused on doing something quickly and headstrong, but ISps tell them they need to slow down and focus on all the details too.

i've seen this when interacting with both illusionary and contrary. it's the Ni way of trying to throw cold water on Ne. partners end up in much more of a tussle over this though, and it takes longer to get to the yes.

developing a lot of possibilities right now is an investment in the future, when a lot of them come to fruition at a different time. and the knowledge you get out of it almost always adds to what you're doing right now to make a better product. it's always good to know why you didn't go down a particular road the whole way.

i'm not so sure that one way is more "right" than another. there's more effective and less effective, in terms of what do we want to do right now vs later. Ni perceives that Ne wastes time, and Ne does seem to waste time at first, while all the possibilities are being perceived, discussed and looked at. once Ne gets centered though, the time is made up because leading Ne can then quickly throw a lot together to get it done and done well. Ni picks what it wants to do and works methodically but more slowly; in the end i bet it takes the same amount of time.

For all the functions, most of the things extroverted functions focus on are considered and refined by introverted functions. I think of introverted functions as focusing on the observations of things that extroverted functions do

and where would introverted functions be without big expansive extraverted functions to perceive a lot of data? introverts would have nothing to refine. so, the two go hand in hand, and define each other dialectically.

[Azeroffs]

i'm not so sure that one way is more "right" than another.

I didn't mean that one way is the right way and the other is the wrong way. I just meant that introverted functions deal more with correctness than extroverted function. So, in argumentation the introverted function will likely win, but in practice the extroverted function is more useful. So this means in interaction the extrovert feels beaten in contrary (and partly in mirage) relations. Neither is inherently more "right" or better than the other.

and where would introverted functions be without big expansive extraverted functions to perceive a lot of data? introverts would have nothing to refine. so, the two go hand in hand, and define each other dialectically.

More specifically I meant that, for example, Ni deals with most of the conclusions that Ne draws, but the introverted function elaborates more. In reality Ni and Ne deal with completely different things, and neither rely on the other. I could say the same for Te/Ti, Se/Si and Fe/Fi. I think that the mere fact that extroverted functions don't draw as refined conclusions is the same thing that makes it more focused on action. "I can't as easily mentally make the connections, so I'll do it physically" is generally my idea of extroverted functions.

I think you're talking about the connection between say Ne and Ti. Ne and Ni really are entirely independent, but I'm saying that conclusions drawn by them are in a similar subject (intuition).

[Shazaam]

Yeah my therapist is an ENFp, delta, and umm it's like that description. They want to trust me, or want me to trust them or something, but something is off. I just don't, and they don't really understand .....me. I really want to find an IEI therapist. Even though I know therapy is bullshit and I don't need it, it still helps for some reason. Idk. I've find SLE therapists are very good for me. <insert DUH here>

I may be judging my therapist a bit too prematurely but I'm ehh about 80% confident on his type.

[Blaze]

I didn't mean that one way is the right way and the other is the wrong way. I just meant that introverted functions deal more with correctness than extroverted function. So, in argumentation the introverted function will likely win, but in practice the extroverted function is more useful. So this means in interaction the extrovert feels beaten in contrary (and partly in mirage) relations. Neither is inherently more "right" or better than the other.

ok i see what you mean here. the introvert kind of restrains the extravert, the extravert feeling a little bit more controlled or something, like they can't get cooperation and perhaps feeling criticized.

in situations where the extravert doesn't need the cooperation of the introvert, the extravert will work around the introvert to develop things that the introvert would not have thought of. in this way, the extravert checks the introvert through sheer production.



More specifically I meant that, for example, Ni deals with most of the conclusions that Ne draws, but the introverted function elaborates more. In reality Ni and Ne deal with completely different things, and neither rely on the other. I could say the same for Te/Ti, Se/Si and Fe/Fi. I think that the mere fact that extroverted functions don't draw as refined conclusions is the same thing that makes it more focused on action. "I can't as easily mentally make the connections, so I'll do it physically" is generally my idea of extroverted functions.

yes. you are on to something. i think i said the same thing above lol.

I think you're talking about the connection between say Ne and Ti. Ne and Ni really are entirely independent, but I'm saying that conclusions drawn by them are in a similar subject (intuition).

yes you are right...opposing functions are not dialectic. what i meant was something broader...that outcomes in the outside world go hand in hand with thoughtful planning. extraverts need introverts and vice versa.

[Suz]

I've read the posts that came up in a search of the forum (which was not that many) and the general descriptions of extinguishment relations.

I am curious what peoples' real life experiences have been with their extinguishment counterparts, in particular romantically but hearing about other settings would be interesting as well.

Is it possible for someone to be romantically interested in their extinguishment? If so, is it a strong draw that happens quickly? Or something that happens more gradually?

[thePirate]

i dont know, I mean I personally think your an idiotic, self absorbed asswipe.

[thePirate]

the only draw is that of toying with you for my sick amusement

[Suz]

i dont know, I mean I personally think your an idiotic, self absorbed asswipe.

what the hell did I ever do to you?? Why do you keep bullying me?

[DirectorAbbie]

Here and on the chatbox? You must be starving for immidiate information.

[thePirate]

what the hell did I ever do to you??

exist

[Absurd]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umzfEer-7So&feature=related]YouTube - Tiny Dog Has Been Barking Nonstop For 6 Years[/ame]

[Suz]

wait wait!! I suddenly understood! thePirate was demonstrating an extinguishment relation! IEI-IEE!

Man, thePirate, you are an unsung genius!

[Suz]

Here and on the chatbox? You must be starving for immidiate information.

Well no-one was really answering my question in the chatbox! And I have to leave for a bit, so I figured I would make a thread. The topic needs more threads anyway, dont u think?

[redbaron]

what's extinguishment again? remind me, I'm too lazy to look it up. lol

[Absurd]

You remind me of Arctures, Pirate. Are you both blood-related ?

[Galen]

You remind me of Arctures, Pirate. Are you both blood-related ?

olol

In my experience, I've gotten along pretty well with IEIs on a superficial level. I find that I can work well with them in business situations, and maybe there can be a little bit of draw in it, but interpersonally we tend to have a lot of weird miscommunication.

[redbaron]

so ENFp and INFp are extinguishment?

[Galen]

so ENFp and INFp are extinguishment?

Yep. In 4 letter code, extinguishment shares all letters except E/I.

[Skeptic]

It's called extinguishment because your functions are 'reversed'. You go about things in completely opposite ways, and both either ignore or consider the other's methods backwards. As you can imagine, being around an extinguishing type can be rather dull and can come off as annoying./unexciting.
I've always thought of it as the worst possible relationship you could have with someone.

[thePirate]

rings true with how I see IEE's here.

jewels, works, etc.

theres only 1 or 2 that seem ok.

[crazedrat]

Well, I can tell you what I think of the only ENFp I know well.
She is a slob, a liar, a chronic manipulator (and a poor one), loud, annoying, histrionic, exaggerated, she cannot be understood, she's a crybaby, sometimes she's compassionate, she is a coping mechanism.. very greedy.. her main plus is she's altruistic, but she'll use this to coerce favors out of you. She is also really two faced. Being around her for too long makes me physically ill.

[redbaron]

Well, I can tell you what I think of the only ENFp I know well.
She is a slob, a liar, a chronic manipulator (and a poor one), loud, annoying, histrionic, exaggerated, she cannot be understood, she's a crybaby, sometimes she's compassionate, she is a coping mechanism.. very greedy.. her main plus is she's altruistic, but she'll use this to coerce favors out of you. She is also really two faced. Being around her for too long makes me physically ill.

well there you go.

[Suz]

rings true with how I see IEE's here.

jewels, works, etc.

theres only 1 or 2 that seem ok.

It's kinda working both ways btw. Notable IEI exceptions being my bosom friend redbaron, silverchris, glam (though i dont know her as well). though I really dont know how I come across to them.

But interesting. . .this thread is QUITE revealing. Very nice.

p.s. it's weird that you guys, thePirate and crazedrat among many others on this forum, dont take advantage of your treasure chest of extensive socionics knowledge to try to understand your more difficult counterparts. The challenge in life is to find the key to getting along with people you perceive as difficult or unpleasant. Socionics makes it SO much easier and comes with so many answers and you guys just let that go. . .shameful. What's the point of studying it then?

[Suz]

Ok so the corollary question to my original post:

Can extinguishment/contrary pairs experience an attraction initially? Is that even a remote possibility?

[redbaron]

Ok so the corollary question to my original post:

Can extinguishment/contrary pairs experience an attraction initially? Is that even a remote possibility?

yeah I've been attracted to an ENFp initially before. And it continued as friends, but nothing more.

[thePirate]

It's kinda working both ways btw. Notable IEI exceptions being my bosom friend redbaron, silverchris, glam (though i dont know her as well). though I really dont know how I come across to them.

But interesting. . .this thread is QUITE revealing. Very nice.

p.s. it's weird that you guys, thePirate and crazedrat among many others on this forum, dont take advantage of your treasure chest of extensive socionics knowledge to try to understand your more difficult counterparts. The challenge in life is to find the key to getting along with people you perceive as difficult or unpleasant. Socionics makes it SO much easier and comes with so many answers and you guys just let that go. . .shameful. What's the point of studying it then?

dont fucking preach at me with your fi bullshit

you think you trying to conform me to your standards is appreciating our differences?

the real problem here isn't that I don't understand you, its that I do, and what I see is infuriating.

[Suz]

dont fucking preach at me with your fi bullshit

you think you trying to conform me to your standards is appreciating our differences?

the real problem here isn't that I don't understand you, its that I do, and what I see is infuriating.

so someone having morals and trying to get along with people is infuriating to you? MMMMMMMMhmmmm. . . .that says quite a bit about you as a person.

Anyway, I'll take that as a HUGE compliment. Thanks.

p.s. contraries dont understand each other well. They might THINK they do, but they dont. sounds like one step away from conflictor

[Suz]

mkay so the vibe i'm getting here is the following:

1. in an extiguishment pair, the introvert sees the extravert as highly annoying to the introvert in some way that the extravert can't understand.

2. The introvert thus treats the extravert as a person annoying to them, leading to the extravert feeling betrayed, hurt, insulted and unappreciated.

Accurate?

Thanks thePirate. Elegantly demonstrated. . .

[redbaron]

my mother is my extinguishment.

[thePirate]

so someone having morals and trying to get along with people is infuriating to you? MMMMMMMMhmmmm. . . .that says quite a bit about you as a person.

it says nothing at all about me as a person because I said none of that. where was morality mentioned? if anything, this is another way of you attempting to conform me to your standards, considering that morality itself is a highly subjective topic.