Extinguishment/Contrary Relations: stories and experiences

[Park]

Contrary relations between psychological types

These are relations of an unstable psychological distance. Both partners experience difficulties in establishing and keeping a stable psychological distance between them. The only chance Contrary partners have to get on together well with each other is if they are left alone. In other cases partners usually compete over their strong sides. The reason for this is when somebody else is present, each partner tries to capture the attention of the listener by showing off their strong side. Contrary partners may like some elements of the other partner's behaviour. This often helps the partners to begin a more close relationship. However, when they are in company, their interaction can change dramatically. The introvert partner usually becomes distant, relations lose warm feelings and become formal and cautious. Both partners may start regretting that they became too trustful.

The extrovert partner normally gets the false impression that the introvert partner is deliberately acting against them. This can bring a great deal of misunderstanding and surprise into these relations, as both partners are convinced that before everything was fine. The introvert partner usually starts suppressing the activity of the extrovert partner and may reproach and criticise them. The extrovert partner in return can behave in the same way.

The most vulnerable position in these relations belongs to the extrovert partner, who may feel as if they are being betrayed. As a result the extrovert partner could start to worry excessively about their next step so as not to make any mistakes and may therefore become very suspicious. Unfortunately the extrovert partner cannot see that their introvert partner is not as bad as they have begun to imagine.

[idolatrie]

Winterpark's quotes here are really good. And in answer to your question, Abbie, I don't think the extrovert partner dominates. Particularly with LSE-LSI. I think the different thought processes part is important: you can have very similar interests and lives, but you go about conceptualising it differently. So often you can be talking 'past' each other, but thinking you're discussing the same thing.

I don't think there's any real hierarchy in such a relationship. I do think LSIs have a greater capacity for viciousness and cruelty, but I also think a healthy LSI who respects the LSE in the relationship would not use that to lash out. In terms of where the power resides, I don't think you can say it is with the introvert or the extrovert uniformly. As was referred to in the quotes, I believe the particular setting you are in is important.

[betterthandead]

Contrast relationships are similar to Identical except one is introverted and extroverted.

If you're thinking about forming a romantic relationship, I would not do it. Probably there will be good friendship and understanding but anything besides that it will not do good because two people will not feel significant from each other. Especially an ESTJ-ISTJ relationship. It'll be one borefest once the honeymoon is over which is the problem with identical or relationships where there is a one letter difference. You'll both have a lot of similarities, but if you think about it you can meet other personalities that have similarities to you.

I know if an ESFP-ISFP relationship. I can see them being good friends, but not good activity partners. I can see them being in a romantic relationship, but nothing long term.

It's the relationship I don't understand. How do they get along? Do extroverts dominate the relationship?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Srry for the Ni vagueness, but I try not to retell many RL situations with overmuch detail on a public forum.

Didn't sound vague to me.

[DirectorAbbie]

Thanks, Winterpark! Now I won't have to say, "beats me" when beople ask about that relationship.

[Ritella]

most of the writing says that these 2 types get along well when not in the presence of another person. IME, that's very true.
But, there is another thing: contrary relations can be good to have around because they will protect your PoLR against outside attackers. yes, they will expect you to have your PoLR as an Ego function, so they can harp on this when you are alone. However, if anyone else ever expects you to use your PoLR, the contrary will usually have your back as s/he will love the opportunity to show off his/her HA skills.

[07490]

It sounds very true with MY EII co-worker, i am not sure about the supressing your activity, but i am certainly more careful about what i said when she is present.

[Ritella]

my EIE mother is taking care of some of my dirty work right now.

[07490]

SI ego people ask me are you feeling ok? what is wrong? EII tells them for me that he is fine, he is just having this and that. and I feel so relieved of not needing to asnswer those question, becuase those question makes me feel worse.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

SI ego people ask me are you feeling ok? what is wrong? EII tells them for me that he is fine, he is just having this and that. and I feel so relieved of not needing to asnswer those question, becuase those question makes me feel worse.

Really? That's interesting. I would have thought that's just a general exchange of pleasantries or showing an interest in someone.

[kensi]

Really? That's interesting. I would have thought that's just a general exchange of pleasantries or showing an interest in someone.

Cyclops, how does your contrary(ESTp) make you feels?

[07490]

Really? That's interesting. I would have thought that's just a general exchange of pleasantries or showing an interest in someone.

Being adware of what is going on is the worse SI polr hit.

[Park]

Being adware of what is going on is the worse SI polr hit.

SI SENIOR NUMEROS, THAT IS HOW IT GOES BEING ADWARE FEELS ABOUT FOR.

[07490]

SI SENIOR NUMEROS, THAT IS HOW IT GOES BEING ADWARE FEELS ABOUT FOR.

I dont understand Mr. conflictor.

[Park]

I dont understand Mr. conflictor.

Neither does he understands of you a lot.

[07490]

why can't you just say Either do i understand you alot.

[Park]

waht?

[07490]

Neither does he understands of you a lot.

You are saying that either can you undersatnd me alot right?

[Park]

You are saying that either can you undersatnd me alot right?

Yaeh, exatcly.

[duality is cringe]

lmao.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[07490]

lmao.

lol!!

miscommunication between conflictors, oh they never happen to you guys?

[Jarno]

most of the writing says that these 2 types get along well when not in the presence of another person. IME, that's very true.
But, there is another thing: contrary relations can be good to have around because they will protect your PoLR against outside attackers. yes, they will expect you to have your PoLR as an Ego function, so they can harp on this when you are alone. However, if anyone else ever expects you to use your PoLR, the contrary will usually have your back as s/he will love the opportunity to show off his/her HA skills.

How have you observed this in real life. Do you have any examples? It sounds interesting.

[misutii]

I've always gotten along well with my contrary, in the company of others, in loosely organized social groups

[Ritella]

How have you observed this in real life. Do you have any examples? It sounds interesting.

Yes. My EIE mother and I will naturally divide up Se and Si tasks. This is almost like in duality, except that we're each taking on our HA. It can kind of be nice, though, because it gives us each a chance to "show off" our skills in this relatively weak area.

Se:
My mom will very gladly do things like drive or anything that requires some sort of sensorial awareness. Also, whenever I have to be pushy or confrontational with someone (say, in customer service, or over the phone) I will give my mom all of the information and she will pretend to be me. She ALWAYS gets her way, whereas I never do. I used to think it was mean of me to give her this "work," because fighting with people is the last thing I'd ever want to do, but I've come to realize that she actually enjoys helping me with this.

Si:
My mom has no idea what clothes look good on her. She dresses well, but she has a surprisingly bad sense of aesthetics FOR HER. She refuses to buy clothes without me. She knows that I can easily point out which pant-cut or shirt-color will look best on her. She always asks me for help in this area as if she (also) thinks it will be a huge burden to me, but I'm always like "sure! that's fun."
Also, I help my mom plan menus for dinner parties. This is hard to explain, but I have a much better developed idea of what ingredients bring out certain flavors and which types of foods pair better together.
I also remind my mom to eat fairly evenly throughout the day. Without me, she will literally spend the entire day running errands, on no food, and then eat a box of cookies when she comes home. I'm always like "food. now. please."

In this way, we are able to use our HA to help each other. The one downside to this is that the HA is still a relatively weak and inconsistent function. Prolonged exposure to people who have your HA as their PoLR can be incredibly draining, because you always have to "remember what you're fighting for" and resist giving into completely ignoring it. Make sense?

[07490]

Yes. My EIE mother and I will naturally divide up Se and Si tasks. This is almost like in duality, except that we're each taking on our HA. It can kind of be nice, though, because it gives us each a chance to "show off" our skills in this relatively weak area.


In this way, we are able to use our HA to help each other. The one downside to this is that the HA is still a relatively weak and inconsistent function. Prolonged exposure to people who have your HA as their PoLR can be incredibly draining, because you always have to "remember what you're fighting for" and resist giving into completely ignoring it. Make sense?

Thats why we use our EGO funtions only when we are with our contrary, Socionics.com say when a third party is present, both partner behaves in a very different manners and the introvert partner will then supress the activity of the extrovert partner. This proberly have to do with Ha as well.

[07490]

.

[munenori2]

Not quite the best post ever. Also, <3 ESEs!

[07490]

Not quite the best post ever. Also, <3 ESEs!

hahaha I had a greae meaningful conversation with a ESE chick whom i have not seen for a long time, and in it, we share and talk alot about our philiosophy of how we handle life, our differences and similarities which relates alot to a kindred, and especially ESE-EIE partners. I dont feel confident enough to share the conversation tho so i replace it with a dot.

[redbaron]

My husband is ESE and my aunt is EIE and they really enjoy each other and tend to see eye to eye on many things. It's a pretty cool relation I think.

[Azeroffs]

contrary relation - flip E/I

The only chance Contrary partners have to get on together well with each other is if they are left alone...when they are in company, their interaction can change dramatically...The extrovert partner normally gets the false impression that the introvert partner is deliberately acting against them. This can bring a great deal of misunderstanding and surprise into these relations, as both partners are convinced that before everything was fine. The introvert partner usually starts suppressing the activity of the extrovert partner and may reproach and criticise them. The extrovert partner in return can behave in the same way.

The most vulnerable position in these relations belongs to the extrovert partner, who may feel as if they are being betrayed. As a result the extrovert partner could start to worry excessively about their next step so as not to make any mistakes and may therefore become very suspicious. Unfortunately the extrovert partner cannot see that their introvert partner is not as bad as they have begun to imagine.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[ArchonAlarion]

lol

yes, but i didnt think it was socionic in nature, but maybe it was.....

interesting

[Azeroffs]

lol

yes, but i didnt think it was socionic in nature, but maybe it was.....

interesting

Yeah, neither did I until I read this.

I actually typed him as my supervisor in part because of this. When I realized SLI didn't really make sense, I figured LII, then read that and I was like .

He was my best friend for years mostly because we were into the same things, but I could not stand hanging out with him and other people. I felt like he was turning into a dick just to impress people. It really pissed me off, and once we got into college we just gradually got to the point of not talking.

[ArchonAlarion]

well this intp i know is still one of my best friends and has been so for 7 years. The testing came recently, but we made it through the difficulties, friendship mostly intact.

[Azeroffs]

well this intp i know is still one of my best friends and has been so for 7 years. The testing came recently, but we made it through the difficulties, friendship mostly intact.

It's partly a difference in goals too. If I had to explain it in socionics terms, Se HA vs Si HA.

[Azeroffs]

anyone from an introvert's perspective?

[Blaze]

i work w an intp. i heard him say to the intern the other day "blaze and i usually reach the same conclusions but we get there in different ways."

i would say the socionics.com description is correct, but a bit biased in favor of the introvert partner. i'm not sure that the extravert is more vulnerable. it seems like i have an easier time getting along w them than i should, theoretically. both irrationals, somehow we always get there. plus i guess the complementary temperaments smooth things over in these relations. i do get somewhat suspicious of him and tell him he's being cryptic and make him explain himself more clearly. which he usually will do.

but i try to be careful around him since i do feel at times he is up to something.

[Krig the Viking]

One of my closest friends is LIE, and I've definitely run into this. Mostly it's me having to bite my tongue to keep from correcting his grammar or pointing out his flawed logic or otherwise undermining him when around other people. I wasn't really aware that I did it until reading that description of Contrary relations a few years ago, especially the part about the extravert being the more vulnerable one.

I wouldn't say I was "turning into a dick to impress people", I was just concerned about all the Ti stuff he was getting wrong, and didn't want the people we were with to get the wrong impression. Only after reading that description did I realise that it might look like I was trying to make him look bad.

I'm able to keep myself in check now, but it takes quite a bit of effort to continually monitor myself like that, so I can't spend too much time around him continuously. But I respect him greatly and value his friendship.

[redbaron]

My mother is IEE (I used to type her EII but I think IEE makes more sense) and I do think she's the more vulnerable in our relationship. There comes a point when it feels like she's tiptoeing around me and I'm not sure why. It used to happen more often when I was living at home but even now it happens occasionally. Almost like she's afraid of me? I don't know! It's weird.

[Azeroffs]

@krig I'm sure that he didn't mean to appear as a dick, especially after reading this it makes things more clear. It was just confusing because we were best friends, but when we were around others he was different, and I felt like he would correct me in a way that was intentionally trying to insult me.

Actually, he is kind of a dick, so that adds to it, but of course that's not type related.