Contrary relations
I am wondering about others' experiences with contrary relations.
Extroverts: Do you, in fact, get the impression that the introvert partner is deliberately acting against you?
Introverts: Do you sense/feel this?
Both: How do you react (outwardly or in your own head)?
As the introvert partner in a contrary relationship, I often feel blocked. Like everytime I begin to feel closer or connected to the extrovert person, they hold me at arms' length. I don't feel like enough of a focus, I guess. Like, they *could* take the time, but just don't.
Of course, I have to remind myself thatis all about lack of focus. :wink:
It's just the overall aura of inconsistency and unpredictability that prompts me to feel unsure whether I'm really valued.
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
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Originally Posted by Mark Twain
Thanks for the response! I feel very similarly when dealing with ESTp's... right now I have one as a superior in an organization where I participate, and I was thinking I was paranoid because I kept feeling like he was testing me with mini-power plays to see what I would do... having read descriptions of this relation, I understand why he might do that.
As the introvert partner in a contrary relationship, I often feel blocked. Like everytime I begin to feel closer or connected to the extrovert person, they hold me at arms' length. I don't feel like enough of a focus, I guess. Like, they *could* take the time, but just don't.
Of course, I have to remind myself that
It's just the overall aura of inconsistency and unpredictability that prompts me to feel unsure whether I'm really valued.
Others' experiences??
I think this does describe how I feel about IEIs. I like them and find them interesting and fascinating, yet I can't seem to quite connect with them. I appreciate that we have a lot of the same interests, which makes me want to get to know them. It's almost like we're talking about the same things but in a different language, making communication with one another confusing. I'm always left feeling that we almost got it this time and maybe if we try harder next time? Maybe this is the nature of the intertype relationship, but I always feel like I'll never stop trying even though I'll probably end up disappointed every time.As the introvert partner in a contrary relationship, I often feel blocked. Like everytime I begin to feel closer or connected to the extrovert person, they hold me at arms' length. I don't feel like enough of a focus, I guess. Like, they *could* take the time, but just don't.
Of course, I have to remind myself that
It's just the overall aura of inconsistency and unpredictability that prompts me to feel unsure whether I'm really valued.
Hm, well, I've never thought an IEI was acting against me :/ But I can definitely see them thinking that I'm holding them at arm's length. I can't help it. I get all wrapped up in my head and months disappear and then I realize I haven't called people in for-ev-ver. Hm, well, and for some reason I always assume that people have closer friends other than me that they hang out with often. I don't know why. Do other IEE's feel like this? I'm serious. I'd almost even think that my best friend has closer friends, despite the fact that we call each other best friends. Hm. That's dumb. This might have something to do with my wacko upbringing, though.
This is how I am too. Some people are sensitive to it and some aren't. IEIs tend to take it very personally in my experience.
there was once a member of my staff who was an ILI. he told me that he always felt like he was saying the wrong thing. at times, in our supervision, my Fe valuing tendency would kinda freak him out. like i'd help him see that he was frustrated with a client, and he'd feel kind of vulnerable or something. he also had been a student of mine at one time who cut a lot of corners and this was reflected in his grade. then he did some stuff that i felt was subversive and it made me not trust him completely. i had to work very hard to have a positive relationship with him and i was a little relieved when he left his position.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Sirena and Tiny Dancer, I think it's really interesting the way you feel that particular kind of tension, and even more interesting that you care. Somehow I couldn't picture the ESTp that prompted me to ask about this actually caring about it in any way that would reflect worrying about anything beyond his own standpoint, but maybe he does... then again, he is not-valuing, whereas you guys are. Hmm... I'm sort of at a loss as to what to do/how to act around him.
Hmm... did you not trust him from the start, or was that the result of him turning out to in fact be sneaky.
This brings me to the question I've had in my head: Extroverts, how could your introverted contrary show you that he really isn't bad after all, even though you see/interact with the world so differently?
Last edited by female; 07-10-2008 at 02:39 PM.
well it's tough to say but basically i had some problem with him from the start, when he took my class, he was kinda sneaky about things.
how could he have shown me? well again tough to say. because he would just do what he did with no input from me, really. like he took action with no discussion. then i'd have to respond. so, to have increased my trust, he could have gotten my input about things before just going ahead and doing them.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Ah, thank you - this clarifies things for me a bit, I think. Please tell me if this is what you mean: you would have preferred that he speak with you first so you would understand, from yourperspective, why he was doing what he was doing based on his
perspective... not because what he was doing was necessarily sneaky (though in this case it may well have been), but because you didn't see why he was doing what he was doing and could only react to it after it had been done. Is this close?
Ah, thank you - this clarifies things for me a bit, I think. Please tell me if this is what you mean: you would have preferred that he speak with you first so you would understand, from your
it is close but not quite cigar. i don't think he should have done the things he did, but if he discussed them with me, i would have felt that he was not sneaky, but i would have disagreed with what he wanted to do and i would have tried to help him see other alternatives where everyone would win.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
So you genuinely wanted to help him, but felt he was uninterested in your help/advice but not capable of doing it your way without it?
no not incapable, rather, i think he would have been unwilling. he was interested in a better outcome for himself and was not looking at how his actions would cause problems for the program and other people, myself included.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I haven't interacted extensively in real life with INTjs, but from other experiences, I'd say that my relations with them aren't bad.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I have a male friend who's ENFp and we get along fine. But we're not close or anything. I find him too flippant. I would never trust him with any serious information or confide in him but he's fun to joke around with. Our common irrationality makes our rational spouses laugh.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I guess this is the irony. On my end, I always feel like I'm the only one actively trying. I'm always imagining IEEs just sitting back and sifting through all their many options. I occasionally end up feeling I'm not "interesting" enough to warrant actually being sought out...
Don't stop trying!
But I wonder if you'd explain how an IEI might actually disappoint you.
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
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Obviously, if you don't spend any time with us, we won't get any closer! It's certainly a rarity, but with some people I actually WANT them to impose on me. If I'm extending myself toward someone, it's a sure bet I'd actually like to consider them a close friend.
Only because we really LIKE you!This is how I am too. Some people are sensitive to it and some aren't. IEIs tend to take it very personally in my experience.
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
**********
I do sense it. I'm sure of my typing of 2 ESTjs, and I end up contradicting them, commenting on what they find important, or teasing them in a way that I think they sometimes consider hostile. I noticed this long before knowing about socionics. I think it's mainly the Si I "act against", and they feel it's hostile because I use Ti in a way that they consider exaggerated, as if I'm doing it only to undermine them and not because I'm really all about Ti.
I also noticed it in an INFp-ENFp relation (again, well before knowing socionics), to a smaller degree with me and another guy who is probably ESTj, and in an ISFp-ESFp pair.
The only other contrary relationship that's close enough to matter is another ENFp-INFp, in which I haven't noticed it.
Last edited by PotatoSpirit; 07-11-2008 at 10:21 AM.
LSI
I haven't had close enough interactions with INTjs to get the feeling that they are deliberately acting against me.
From my perspective, the worst contrary relation is ESFp-ISFp, because they are both irrational, both strong on, and both inclined to say and to things impulsively, with very short-term perspectives - and yet they are coming from totally opposing perspectives.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Only ILE I've ever known IRL was a guy who was part of my circle of friends when I was in college. We got along really well actually, which was probably due to the casual environment and things like that, i.e. we mainly just socialised together and whatnot. Now and again I felt mentally drained, but it wasn't anything specific that he did that caused that; i.e. I think it was just a side effect of the contrary relation. Besides I think I was the only Gamma in the group (it was mainly Alpha, although there was an IEE also who I had a huge crush on for a long time). So that probably contributed to the drained feeling. Yeah...from what I can remember, the core group was me (ILI obviously), an IEE, an ILE, an SEI and also an ESE, whom I saw less frequently. That's the word I'm looking for, long psychological distance. It was an LPD with all these people which is why I think I managed to get along so well with them, albeit always in a casual environment. I had other friends, some of whose types I'm still unsure about, but those were the main ones. Fun times. So yeah, I've no idea what I'd be like in SPD with an ILE IRL. Overuse of acronyms ftw.
ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
5w4 so/sx
"IP temperament! Because today's concerns are tomorrow's indifferences!"
Lord Fnorgle's Domain - A slowly growing collection of music, poetry and literature.
Stickam music performances
Contrary relationships
I find my contraries (IEEs) to be incredibly interesting and knowledgeable, however I almost feel like I let them down too easily. Anybody else feel like this with their contrary? (your contrary type is just the heteroverted switch of the introvert/extrovert dichotomy, so if you are ENTj, your contrary is INTj. If you are ISFp, your contrary is ESFp etc.)
I think contraries put too much faith in each other naturally, and idealize the other way too much. They never let each other fail when they need to just fail, and it's frustrating. When I make a mistake, my dual is much quicker to forgive me and will help me change the negative behavior more naturally and fluidly. It's like you can't help but think your contrary could always 'do better', and it's exhausting for both parties.
They almost feel like supervision relationships in a way, because I usually value them so much where I find their criticisms useful, but I still can't shake the fact that they're not understanding me completely. But since I really do like them a lot more than my supervisors/supervisees, it becomes frustrating and even more 'too idealistic.'
IEEs, how do you view IEIs? Same way?
Last edited by Shazaam; 08-11-2008 at 08:51 AM.
I'm always amazed by IEIs. It's like Ni superpowers, or something.
[
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
Same as Mikemex, I like them very much... IMO, your description is right-on, B&D... My feeling for INFps, in general, I'd describe as admiration.
Yeah I'm crazy about you guys too. =D But I dunno, it's like the intense admiration gets in the way sometimes.
Less admiration, more unfettered affection!!!
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
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I am pretty new to this, so I haven't really typed anyone as an ENFP in my life yet, but having read the description, they sound great! Really fun and sweet too, I don't really see how I couldn't get along with one...
I think I've made it clear I'm not a fan of mine.
Contrast
It's the relationship I don't understand. How do they get along? Do extroverts dominate the relationship?
I still want a response.
what's contrast? do you mean contrary/extinguishment?
Same shapes, opposite colors. I don't know what contrary/extinguishment means.
Yeah, that's contrary.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
So is anyone going to tell me how contraries get along? I don't know many ISTjs.
Come back later. I am in pyjamas right now.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
*waves* Hi.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
Hi. What's a contrary relationship like?*waves* Hi.
That's a very good question.It depends in part on being absolutely certain of my type.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
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