Serious romantic relationship with an INTp, what went wrong?

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Originally Posted by implied

@ astralsilky - you do seem over-the-top :Fe: sometimes. i have about the same impression as thehotelambush -- ENFp would be the only :Fi: type i could consider for you, beta NF, etc. i could buy alpha SF as well. i also admittedly get a little nervous by the colored fonts/dramatic nature of your posts/emphasized words/thank you thank you thank yous because i get the idea i'm supposed to match this somehow and i'm sort of waiting for you to react in a way that would be more dramatic than i'd be comfortable with? i get the same sense from my mom sometimes (like she's about to "explode" or sort of burst forth with emotions.) and the fact that you thought the INTp was "rude" might bug me a bit since i can be pretty rude.

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More INTp mishaps. :(

To clarify,

The few INTps I've known well have always impressed me by their kindness and politeness, more than most. EDIT Normally, I find INTps to be very focused, and consider that to be a chief characteristic of dominant :Ni:.

I have mostly used color and emphasize words because it makes for easier topical scanning for those of us who are more visual.

I do not expect any particular emotive reactions (e.g., drama, enthusiasm, sentimentality, general emotionalism) from people in response to my posts. Not in the least.

I've using emoticons a lot to try set a tone to my posts so as to prevent misunderstandings, since I've encountered them (on an emotional level) in written communication in the past often ... and am not sure how else to avoid them. But this doesn't seem to be working!

[hr:2d49658d61][hr:2d49658d61]

The perceptions shared by others and subsequent conclusions so far on my type have been surprising, to say the least.

EDIT

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

Normally, I find INTps to be very focused, and consider that to be a chief characteristic of dominant :Ni:.

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!!? :?

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

An INTp I once knew, who adores his ISFj partner, said that one of the things he loved about her was how she would give of herself so freely, with no strings attached. That amazed him that anyone would do such a thing. It sounds like you might operate on a strict give-and-take basis like he does, and therefore suspect most others do the same? Then put undue pressure on yourself to "reciprocate" - significantly more than most people are probably even expecting? Or maybe not. What do you think?

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I see what you mean, but I don't think I do this at all. I am at times too generous, but it generally has to be on my own terms. If I give to someone, I would feel uncomfortable if I then received something back.

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

How does your dual (ESFp) operate in terms of generosity? From what I have seen, IxTps "give less than most" whereas ExFps seem more generous than most.

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I dated a pathological (borderline pd) ESFp so I'm not sure our relationship could be considered dualistic. He often was in distress because I didn't tell him I loved him enough. I didn't give him traditional gifts at expected times, but I occasionally wrote him songs or gave him my undivided attention, which he seemed to adore. Problem was that he would expect me to keep giving long after I needed to distance myself. Distancing myself certainly did not mean I wanted to receive passively from him. If he would have just let me come around on my own, we would have had far fewer problems. But he would call and pester me. When I was sick, he would try to make me feel better. Sounds nice, I suppose, but I can't maintain this sort of attentive relationship.

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

When I give, it is without strings attached - not to solicit behavior X, rather, because I thought perhaps the gift might add a little joy to the other's life. Making someone happy is reciprocation enough.

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Of course.

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Originally Posted by astrasilky

Once, a guy (with whom I had previously had minimal contact) sent me roses and thought that meant he was entitled to a date. I was so reluctant to call him and answer his request, and thank him. I was scared. But he sent those roses - I thought, "heck, more guys send roses, so why do I get them from the wrong one? I don't want to discourage him ... maybe the next one he sends them to will appreciate his boldness. He just got it wrong with me." So a few days later and after an hour or so of reluctant trepidation, I called and thanked him, but said I wasn't interested in going out. He got angry! He thought he was entitled to a date for having sent these dang flowers. Now I got angry. This guy was unbelievable! And also, before he sent those roses, he somehow found out where I lived and had also left a book at my house as a gift. That scared me. I hardly even knew who this guy was. We had only had ONE conversation before. And I certainly never asked for any of these so-called "gifts."

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I would never do the bolded part.

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Originally Posted by astrasilky

It sounds like you're being way too hard on yourself. You probably have much, much more to offer someone than you realize. Perhaps they were actually the one that you suspected would eventually not meet your own expectations to make it all worth it?

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I don't doubt that I have much to offer people. however, I am being realistic. It has been an unbroken pattern in my relationships that people eventually expect or desire what I cannot do or refuse to do.

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

The few INTps I've known well have always impressed me by their kindness and politeness, more than most. It was just this one fellow who would've focus on the phone during our conversations which seemed sort of rude. And I mentioned that part, in case any other INTps might say "now, that doesn't sound INTp one bit!" or something, in case I typed him inaccurately, since the whole relationship happened a very very long time ago (therefore, an attempt at "retroactive" typing). Normally, I find INTps to be very focused, and consider that to be a chief characteristic of dominant :Ni:.

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well, i would sort of want to say it seems slightly more ENTp to seem as if you aren't paying any attention at all while on the phone, but i don't believe i'm not guilty of it. i don't know if i would consider "extremely focused" as being a chief characteristic of dominant :Ni:, either.

if i were to talk to you on the phone and be doing something else at the same time, it would be likely that i'd be reading or something, but not jabbering away with other people and completely ignoring the person i am on the phone with. i think some of the ISFjs i have met might find this rude, unless you were busy working/talking on the phone/being generally busy in a sort of EJ fashion. but i've also met ISFjs who would find other things way worse.

also i don't really react well personally to people who i think could be very rude/rough etc. again, it's just people "bursting forth" with emotions (positive or negative, really.) could he have been ENTp?

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I have mostly used color and emphasize words because it makes for easier topical scanning for those of us who are more visual.

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i admit, this can actually really useful. it helps in a visual way.

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Originally Posted by niffweed17

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

Normally, I find INTps to be very focused, and consider that to be a chief characteristic of dominant :Ni:.

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!!? :?

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Yeah, if anything I'd say that's a characteristic of dominant Ti, or Ij in general.

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Originally Posted by thehotelambush

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Originally Posted by niffweed17

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

Normally, I find INTps to be very focused, and consider that to be a chief characteristic of dominant :Ni:.

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!!? :?

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Yeah, if anything I'd say that's a characteristic of dominant Ti, or Ij in general.

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"Focused" compared to ... some other functions ...

OK, how about this:

Ne ~ windows popping up all over, right?

Ne: conceptual breadth / possibilities / lateral thinking

Ni: conceptual depth / focus / sequence / linearity / time / goals

That's how I kinda view it.

When I have a conversation with an INxp in person, it seems we can spend very long periods of time discussing the same subject. There may be some related tangents involved, but there is a topical persistence that I have not experienced (yet?) when engaging people of other types. (Not that every conversation is a marathon, of course. Casual things might sometimes be discussed randomly ...) But I am comfortable with the pace/etc.

The only other types I experience a similar type of conversations with are ENxjs ... but these can feel more like marathons, depending on how much I give into them. The way they hop from Ni to Ne, back and forth ... whoah. Maybe that's not exactly what's happening, but for whatever the reason, it feels like a workout after a while (and get a little bit tiring). And I've experienced this with two ENFjs, and two ENTjs - repeatedly, such that it's become a predictable component of our interactions.

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

An INTp I once knew, who adores his ISFj partner, said that one of the things he loved about her was how she would give of herself so freely, with no strings attached. That amazed him that anyone would do such a thing. It sounds like you might operate on a strict give-and-take basis like he does, and therefore suspect most others do the same? Then put undue pressure on yourself to "reciprocate" - significantly more than most people are probably even expecting? Or maybe not. What do you think?

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I see what you mean, but I don't think I do this at all. I am at times too generous, but it generally has to be on my own terms. If I give to someone, I would feel uncomfortable if I then received something back.

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That's refreshing to hear ... maybe he's just an unusual type of person. :) Now that you mention it, I also feel more comfortable giving and receiving (especially if I don't like what I received! Then I feel bad.)

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

How does your dual (ESFp) operate in terms of generosity? From what I have seen, IxTps "give less than most" whereas ExFps seem more generous than most.

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I dated a pathological (borderline pd) ESFp so I'm not sure our relationship could be considered dualistic. He often was in distress because I didn't tell him I loved him enough. I didn't give him traditional gifts at expected times, but I occasionally wrote him songs or gave him my undivided attention, which he seemed to adore. Problem was that he would expect me to keep giving long after I needed to distance myself. Distancing myself certainly did not mean I wanted to receive passively from him. If he would have just let me come around on my own, we would have had far fewer problems. But he would call and pester me. When I was sick, he would try to make me feel better. Sounds nice, I suppose, but I can't maintain this sort of attentive relationship.

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You wrote him songs? Wow! How cool! That's more than most people ever give ... He does sound a bit borderline. :( That must not have been easy to deal with.

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

When I give, it is without strings attached - not to solicit behavior X, rather, because I thought perhaps the gift might add a little joy to the other's life. Making someone happy is reciprocation enough.

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Of course.

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:)

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

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Originally Posted by astrasilky

Once, a guy (with whom I had previously had minimal contact) sent me roses and thought that meant he was entitled to a date. I was so reluctant to call him and answer his request, and thank him. I was scared. But he sent those roses - I thought, "heck, more guys send roses, so why do I get them from the wrong one? I don't want to discourage him ... maybe the next one he sends them to will appreciate his boldness. He just got it wrong with me." So a few days later and after an hour or so of reluctant trepidation, I called and thanked him, but said I wasn't interested in going out. He got angry! He thought he was entitled to a date for having sent these dang flowers. Now I got angry. This guy was unbelievable! And also, before he sent those roses, he somehow found out where I lived and had also left a book at my house as a gift. That scared me. I hardly even knew who this guy was. We had only had ONE conversation before. And I certainly never asked for any of these so-called "gifts."

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I would never do the bolded part.

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It wasn't easy. But if I didn't ... what if he kept on sending stuff?? I wanted to put an end to it ... and one momentary uncomfortable experience was worth the reduction of the anxiety associated with more, future uncomfortable experiences ...

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

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Originally Posted by astrasilky

It sounds like you're being way too hard on yourself. You probably have much, much more to offer someone than you realize. Perhaps they were actually the one that you suspected would eventually not meet your own expectations to make it all worth it?

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I don't doubt that I have much to offer people. however, I am being realistic. It has been an unbroken pattern in my relationships that people eventually expect or desire what I cannot do or refuse to do.

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OK, I see. That makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

He does sound a bit borderline. :( That must not have been easy to deal with.

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Dude was an angel! When he'd jump out of my moving vehicle after spitting on my face for the tenth time in one week, I'd think, it's okay, he must be a bit heavenward. I especially loved when he'd plant illegal substance in my car so that when he got angry he could call the cops. What devotion. I also really enjoyed the times he broke my windshield. Once I thought I reached nirvana when he burned half the contents of my car. He would consistently create drama at the moment when I could possibly choose to leave him behind so that I would rescue him. I lost count of all the times he'd run away and manipulate me into finding him because he claimed to be on the brink of suicide. This was all very fun because he was worshiping me! Finally I left him lying on the curb. It was a joy when he followed me 3000 miles home and then stalked me for the next year.

Call him for a good time. Trust me, he delivers.

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

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Originally Posted by thehotelambush

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Originally Posted by niffweed17

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Originally Posted by astralsilky

Normally, I find INTps to be very focused, and consider that to be a chief characteristic of dominant :Ni:.

---

!!? :?

---

Yeah, if anything I'd say that's a characteristic of dominant Ti, or Ij in general.

---

"Focused" compared to ... some other functions ...

OK, how about this:

Ne ~ windows popping up all over, right?

Ne: conceptual breadth / possibilities / lateral thinking

Ni: conceptual depth / focus / sequence / linearity / time / goals

That's how I kinda view it.

When I have a conversation with an INxp in person, it seems we can spend very long periods of time discussing the same subject. There may be some related tangents involved, but there is a topical persistence that I have not experienced (yet?) when engaging people of other types. (Not that every conversation is a marathon, of course. Casual things might sometimes be discussed randomly ...) But I am comfortable with the pace/etc.

The only other types I experience a similar type of conversations with are ENxjs ... but these can feel more like marathons, depending on how much I give into them. The way they hop from Ni to Ne, back and forth ... whoah. Maybe that's not exactly what's happening, but for whatever the reason, it feels like a workout after a while (and get a little bit tiring). And I've experienced this with two ENFjs, and two ENTjs - repeatedly, such that it's become a predictable component of our interactions.

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i buy that.

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Originally Posted by niffweed17

{...} i buy that.

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A-ha! Our terms may not be as disparate as initially thought.

:D

Good.

I'm terrible at deleting my posts before they're finished. I usually do it because I think they sound ridiculous and have no resemblance of the post I had the intention of making to begin with.

EDIT:
My relationship with my girlfriend gets a bit awkward sometimes because I suck at reading Fe. I have to be told exactly what she wants, because she doesn't tell me what she wants. :P

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Originally Posted by stevENTj

See? :lol:

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Originally Posted by implied

god damnit steve you have to still be ENTj or my dad is INTp and i've totally mixed up temperaments, WHICH IS UNLIKELY.

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Why? What was it that makes you think that? I do come across as an ENTj, which can fool people.

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What type is your wife?

I am terrible in romantic things and people tend to treat me badly for some reason. I think I let them or something.