ESI-LIE song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYDP_8UTAus
Printable View
ESI-LIE song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYDP_8UTAus
LIE/Fi dual-seeking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5srnNrICJo
SEE and ILI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MefYftCk6U
Se-SEE (?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=690poa8ehtg
ESI ft. EIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghzdwjWrWcc
SEE and LIE activity partners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoEKWtgJQAU
LIE and SEE activity partners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH2K9N16VMY
Not sure if I've said it before but "Power Metal" is Gamma (no wonder it's one of my favorite genres). I'll rest my case with this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzxkCADK_5Q
Diving into further research I've also discovered that "American" culture is rather Gamma as well. If one deep dives into "Western" and "Film Noir" you'll find things that are both uniquely Gamma and also uniquely American. Those genres are things that could only literally only happen in America.
Here's another piece that probably resonates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J84FPJAb7rM
The gamma mindset will always resonate with the truly downtrodden and hemmed in. Like the heroes of the Western and Film Noir (the lone cowboy and the hard boiled detective) we can and will always struggle to find the undeniable and objective truth no matter what in one form or another. Justice demands it. Our own self-identity demands it...
Se-SEE Sp/Sx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGuGLx_OaLQ
SEE and ESI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uViUsNfLIJQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvYbhJ6pryA
SEE 'music'
There are a lot of people who believe the Beatles are Gamma, however I believe a lot of their music is too happy and harmonious—particularly their earlier music. Back in the 60s, there was a definite dichotomy: you were either a “Beatles person” or a “Stones person”. The perception was that the Beatles and their fans “toed the line” and put forth at least an effort towards presenting respectable outward appearances. In contrast, the Rolling Stones were immediately feared as a sign of society’s decline into debauchery. In reality, I don’t believe this was necessarily a fact, however the Rolling Stones definitely fared better, in that societal expectations for them were so much lower as a result. When members of the Rolling Stones got arrested (multiple times) for drug offenses, society had expected that of them all along, and therefore they were not knocked off of any pedestal and could therefore take it more in stride. In contrast, the Beatles desperately searched for inner meaning amongst all of the superficiality of their heretofore unprecedented fame. They turned to the Maharishi, eastern religion, and in Lennon‘s case eventually to heroin. That is what makes me believe that perhaps Lennon could have possibly been Gamma, because once he found himself trapped in the artificial world that is fame, that led him to self-destruct by locking himself away in a NYC apartment with Yoko to try and achieve authenticity through isolation in order to block out the intrusion of the press and fans. So utterly tragic, that eventually he was gunned down by a fan—even though he had desperately tried to inundate himself in anonymity by living in New York City—his very worst fears realized.Quote:
Originally Posted by astralsilky
Personally, I think that the Rolling Stones possess a “cut out the bullshit” real-life vulnerability that is the cornerstone of Gamma. Their music is intentionally rough around the edges, thereby placing the emphasis more on its authentic “feel” than its outer polished appearance. In contrast, The Beatles “she loves you ya ya ya and with a love like that you know you should be glad” seems a little more Alpha to me—where everything is just peachy keen and sunny. As a Gamma, I personally despise all of those “happy songs”. I have more respect for lyrics that tell it like it REALLY is (ie. like how Pink Floyd single-handedly brought awareness to mental health issues/schizophrenia in an artful way with The Wall). It’s harsh, but it’s REAL. I’m not claiming necessarily that each (or any) musician in the Rolling Stones is Gamma (although I do believe that Mick Jagger is LIE)…just that their type of music is.
The very first lyrics that Mick Jagger & and Keith Richards wrote together (after being locked in a room together until they “came out with a song” by their manager Andrew Oldham), contains from the outset a dark authentic sadness, which in my opinion is very Gamma: “I sit and watch the children play. Smiling faces I can see, but not for me. I sit and watch as tears go by”. Ya, because the happy smiley faces are for the Alphas. The Rolling Stones, while English, were inspired by blues music from the American South—John Lee Hooker, Chuck Berry, Howlin’ Wolf, Muddy Waters—and a lot of the messages inherent in THAT genre of music IMO, is distinctly Fi—once again valuing inner authenticity over outer polish.
Contrast lyrics from the Stones’ Street Fighting Man to standard Beatles fare such as I Want to Hold Your Hand: “‘Cause summer’s here and the time is right for fighting in the street boy But what can a poor boy do ‘cept to sing for a rock ‘n’ roll band, ‘cause in sleepy London town there’s just no place for a street fightin’ man”. The down and out seediness of Honky Tonk Woman, and Tumbling Dice…. damn it’s REAL and NOT superficial and happy.
https://youtu.be/J1EWf6O77jE
The music’s rawness prompts one to shake off their pretences, and embrace life’s good, bad & ugly. Wakin’ up rough, (in the 70,s & 80’s that would also include lighting a smoke, & putting on Morrison’s “well I woke this morning and I got myself a beer…the future’s uncertain and the end is always near”). It’s common to put down the past eras’ faults of liquor, LSD and cigarettes, yet is today’s vaping, meth and oxy really an improvement?The Stones’ music acknowledges that life is harsh…yet their music can nonetheless evoke if not happiness, then at least acceptance despite the hardships. Personally for me, music provides a direct conduit to Fi—safe, controllable connections to feelings. This brings to mind the message I left at Morrison’s grave at Pere Lachaise: “For the music is your special friend—dance on fire as it intends, music is your only friend, until the end.” That’s a little bit dark, however it brings me enjoyment for its common truth.
In my opinion, Gamma music has to contain some element of vulnerable self disclosure that everyone can relate to, thereby establishing the common ground from which all of us feel safe to lay down our swords and admit that life is fucked, life is hard…yet nonetheless there can still be joy. That is why I believe that Eminem is Gamma ESI—the elements of his music reveal his vulnerability, while simultaneously creating humour from it. This is irresistible to capture Fi valuers. In Without Me, he contrasts his stormy pissed off and authentic personal Fi lyrics (“Fuck you DEBBIE”—after winning his lawsuit) against an ironically upbeat and sunny Alpha musical backdrop: “A-tisket a-taskit I’ll go tit-for-tat with anybody who’s talking this shit…” I also think Eminem very often uses double entendre wordplay—which also seems in my opinion to be very Gamma. One of the most deep down joys I get is when I write a message that utilizes a word conveying two differing meanings in a naughty or clever sense. I also noticed that other Gamma members of this forum like to use the letters from their socionics type in their name. Not sure if there are members from other quadras who also do this?
https://youtu.be/ZbytR2avo-0
Same with Kanye West. Even though I face palm hardily (and take Taylor Swift’s side,) every time I watch him interrupt her VMA acceptance speech, I believe that in HIS opinion, it was his way of being chivalrous and standing up for Beyoncé. Therefore I think he is SEE because he meant well, but didn’t foresee the “big picture” ie. the overall consequences of his bitchy actions. I am NO fan of the Kardashians, but I give props to Kim for treating Kanye‘s bipolar mental health issues respectfully and standing by him as much as she did. His song “Can’t Tell Me Nothing” sounds very Gamma IMO. He’s telling it like it is—the good, bad and ugly—and FFS he has a point.
https://youtu.be/Nq6SwPHsi_M
I guess in essence, other quadras may gain joy and pleasure from “happy music” about a “sunshiney day” or “looking so fine”….. but for Gammas that is not enough. We require full psychological satisfaction and validation that comes only from hearing someone have the balls to say something distasteful, yet true…so that we can then relax and get behind them saying “yeah that’s fucking right!”
I think John Lennon look like Steve Job. Depressed EIE…
One thing I’m unclear about is whether we are attempting to identify musicians who are Gamma, or else music that appeals to Gammas. Given that there is much debate over both of these parameters…but IMO there is more debate over the correct typings of musicians we don’t actually know, I’ll present what I think defines the latter.
Was thinking that IMO, the distinguishing characteristic of Gamma music is that it must contain substance over fluff/superficiality. Of course music is subjective to the listener, however some possible substantive descriptors might be:
- unpretentious music that has a raw and hard-hitting truthful message (ie. Dylan’s Like A Rolling Stone: “…Now you don’t talk so loud, now you don’t seem so proud, about having to be scrounging your next meal” https://youtu.be/oXiApJV9-jk
- undeniable real musical talent (ie. one of the few videos available from one of my all-time favourite places in the world Preservation Hall, since recording is normally not permitted. In particular from 3:20 onward, I challenge anyone to listen and not smile with joy: https://youtu.be/b7M8ZkQma3I. Similarly, this video from George Harrison’s RRHOF induction…apparently Prince was given a cold shoulder in rehearsals, and 1st guitar-solo guy was being an Alpha dog hogging the solo, so Prince backed off and said Jeff Lynne’s guy could have it and that he’d play in the background for the song and then only do the ending guitar solo. WELL…I was not a Prince fan before this but FFS…his playing is smooth, emotive, artful, and ultimately so befitting of the song’s title. Love Tom Petty standing up for Prince—@4:55 when Prince looks to Petty for the signal to end the song, yet Petty graciously leans in and apparently told him to keep going and play what he feels. It’s absolutely epic: https://youtu.be/6SFNW5F8K9Y
- music that creates an authentic mood such as anger, melancholy or despair. Can’t resist selecting this video… Alanis Morisette’s very first appearance on late night television…and boy does she bring the “REAL” (the whole band is exceptional, young Taylor Hawkins on drums). Good on her for being so young and having the courage to reveal all of her emotions—the bad & the ugly. Gotta respect her…apparently audience members were frightened haha. https://youtu.be/TS3oLs1JF50
Provided as a contrast, here is what perhaps is NOT Gamma music IMO:
- happy fluffy music like Katrina & the Waves Walking on Sunshine, Wham!’s Wake Me Up Before you Go-Go. This does NOT mean that Gamma music must be dark/depressing. Today I heard In the Summertime on Stingray All Time Greatest Hits: https://youtu.be/wvUQcnfwUUM. I recalled that every time I hear the banjo player blowing raspberries into the jug, and the singer yelling “Ugh,” at the end of each musical stanza (~1:25), it always makes me chuckle with unabashed joy. It’s stupid, simple and happy, yet is so very obviously unpretentious, organic and eschews over-production.
- glitzy, over-produced lip-synced commercialized Super Bowl confections with fireworks, costume changes, props, confetti etc. (give me Preservation Hall ANY day!)
Salud
https://www.guitarplayer.com/players...tly-weeps-solo
I was thinking about why Prince’s guitar solo during George Harrison’s RRHOF induction is so emotionally affecting. Of course he’s unbelievably incredible…a unique and unprecedented talent without a doubt. But even more than that, it’s his humility in stepping back and allowing someone who isn’t even a Hall of Famer to take the spotlight and have the main solo. Also…it may APPEAR that I am valuing Fe at the “group performance” of George Harrison‘s classic. But the truth is that the only reason I value it so deeply is because of Tom Petty’s personal support of Prince. Without Petty, it could’ve otherwise been a lacklustre dial-it-in performance by a bunch of complacent superstars. It is only because Tom Petty set all of the “petty” ego issues aside, and was secure enough as an artist to recognize that the music should come first, that he was then able to single-handedly provide the emotional support that allowed Prince to let his guard down and feel like he was actually welcome to be part of the performance (apparently, everyone else had given Prince the cold shoulder). Dhani Harrison (George’s son) also provides emotional support to Prince during the performance, although apparently afterwards, he commented that Prince should’ve toned it down. I understand this conflicted attitude of Dahni though – when it comes to the death of a parent, you ultimately end up having all kinds of defensive judgements and protectiveness issues.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that Tom Petty sent the blatantly obvious social cues that someone like me requires in order to feel welcome/included. If I had been going out on the town with that bunch of people, I would have stuck by Tom because he possessed the secure “feeling” ethics to not play any mental games with people’s emotions. I’m not sure which socionics type Prince is, but I’m guessing that he is Fi valuing. He is stiff and an obvious outsider during 3/4 of the performance. It is only after Tom Petty is emotionally brave enough to step forward and actually extend some emotional support, that Prince then becomes artistically invested. A lot of the joy I receive from watching Prince’s performance is from watching his authentic, lost in the moment facial expressions, as well as his emotional expression in the way that he opens up for and plays exclusively to Tom. In this way, Tom Petty is just as responsible for all of the praise that this epic performance consistently garners.
______________________________________________
With respect to Alanis Morissette’s debut television performance of You Oughtta Know on David Letterman, here is a quote from an audience member csilver522 who was present:
“I was in the audience for this. We had no idea who Alanis Morissette was (I don’t think anyone did at this point), and I remember being terrified by the intensity on stage. It was loud, angry, and passionate as can be, and watching this now, I realize I witnessed an epic musical performance. This is awesome, and I wish I had been able to appreciate it at the time, but I’m not sure Alanis wanted it that way. I think she wanted to scare us. She did.”
https://youtu.be/TS3oLs1JF50
A performance of pure passion and emotion by Alanis as well as the band. For some reason—likely because I lack my own Se & Fi—I am somewhat soothed and in total admiration of people who can display this type of emotion and angst on my behalf. All while I lamely proclaim from a safe and emotionally insulated perch “ya that’s fucking right!” If anyone is wondering what Se HA is seeking – look no further, this is fucking it. Also, since Janice, I don’t think there’s been any hard rock band/accompaniment backing up such an emotional female singer. Good on that band, because they all fucking killed it (&RIP Taylor). Want to mention that Dave Navarro played guitar and Flea played bass on the studio version of this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sg2XAlK2T8
SEE anthem
Just remembered I'm lazy after a listenQuote:
Originally Posted by crM
As far as Rock and a few of its subgenres
Gamma Intratim: Soundgarden, and Alice In Chains
Gamma Extratim: AC/DC, Cream
@ENJoymENT
Prince's note choice is pretty interesting. He starts off in the blues scale but then borrows a few notes from the Dorian and Aolean scales, which are both used in Spanish guitar
Another thing he incorporates is his phrasing. Phrasing is when you build "sentences" with notes from a guitar solo. First section ( first 14 secs of the solo) he follows the lyrics that you'd sing In the song, while throwing in enough variation to where you go "that's different". Similar to an improv singer with their voice.
Next 14 seconds(thats where he shifts to the fancier scales) he varies bit ends that bit with a piece of the singer's melody again to remind you what song this is.
Instead of running through a stream of notes he breaks and makes little passages with a clear distinction between them a la Clapton or Hendrix.Here is this one...then the next...and the next each one of them rising in octave and pitch, along with speed and dexterity, creating a sense of progression and rising intensity; and if you pay attention you'll notice all his "sentences" are approximately the same length in time. Nice and neat following the song with pauses that allow it to breathe before switching gears.
And every time he ends one passage he goes back to how Harrison would sing the lyrics to the main line but again with little tiny differences.
The rest is in details like his tone, both his guitar settings and the changes in pressure he applies to the strings with his pick. His vibrato (same way a singer shakes the note at the end of a phrase the guitarist shakes the note with the finger) changes in aggressiveness as the solo goes by
Music is subjective but there are hard, technical measures that can make something sound not just great, but emotive and dramatic. Gives it a body and lungs. Gives it life and the ability to breathe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHXUkZmvEJE
Dwaves and Humans vs. X always felt like Gammas and Deltas vs all others IMO...
Probably why they tend to get along while the "mountainfolk" take quite an issue with the knife-eared arseholes...
Yes… he/you had me at “that’s different” than the actual paint-by-numbers studio version. Yet all without straying too far from the living heart of the track by selfishly reaching too often into his own personal arsenal/bag of tricks just to display them for their own sake. Everything he opts to do is creative, yet all while simultaneously remaining true to the spirit of this George Harrison classic. It’s not his display of technique as a skilled guitarist that is special, it’s his ability to seamlessly fit his talent into the existing framework of the song in order to both creatively enhance, yet fully honour it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptLandhawk;[URL="tel:[URL="tel:[URL="tel:[URL="tel:[URL="tel:1528523"
And yes—equal and perfect amounts of melody, breathing space, technique, and ultimately heavy rock ‘n’ roll abandon/freedom. The only guitarist in my opinion who can mournfully bend notes in such a manner to slay me emotionally, is Clapton…well okay, also Duane Allman’s slide guitar in the despairing coda of Layla. Actually controversial within the musicians’ community…in that many claim he’s disconcertingly out of tune in spots. But to me, I truly believe that those bends have to be an intentional artistic choice—because they are my absolute favourite parts of this song. They paint an atmospheric melancholia…from 3:50-5:40 opens me up both physically & emotionally. It forces my breath to finally exhale and my shoulders to drop in surrender. And about 70% of the time when I hear it, this section brings genuine tears to my eyes in gratitude of actually acknowledging that I have feelings and emotions. Palms up in surrender…open…being showered in despair, and yet somehow loving nonetheless. And it’s not my fault—its cause is the experience of being caressed by the anguish inherent in the guitar’s notes. Layla is in fact my most favourite romantic song.
Second place is Queen’s Somebody to Love live at Milton Keynes—especially the improvised piano intro—when F.M. shrugs/raises his left palm up in despair. Queen was actually my first live concert in Toronto during “The Game” tour. Can’t tell you how much respect I have for the fact that these four musicians each bring it—covering one another’s backs—doing ALL of the instruments, vocals—no autotune, no back up singers etc. And most impressively—no cell phones in the audience, everyone present and contributing emotionally in the moment. It’s pure passion. https://youtu.be/v8L3TCXsyX4
Third has to be Prince’s solo. I find it very interesting that you describe Prince’s musical passages as sentences—“nice and neat following the song with pauses that allow it to breathe before switching gears”. This description really expounds the intentional maintaining of the underlying structure in order to avoid alienating the unsophisticated listener. All the while thoughtfully and intermittently overlaying creative embellishments which elevate the experience to a creation… as opposed to merely an imitation.
It must be immensely emotionally invigorating and soulfully satisfying to be able to create and express at that level.
I LOVE this song, my favourite since Era Vulgaris’ Suture Up Your Future & 3’s &7’s. It’s the best song if you’re pissed at somebody: “I sat by the ocean, and drank a potion baby, to erase you”. I like the QOTSA’s lyrics that blatantly call out our contrived exteriors. “The truth hurts so bad wouldn’t you say…so why tell it? If ignorance is bliss than I’m in…heaven now”. Apparently according to Homme, he wrote most of the lyrics for …Like Clockwork while he was depressed and laid up in the hospital. Thus the lyrics are deliciously introspective and cut right to the authentic emotion:Quote:
Originally Posted by Averroes;[URL="tel:1529185"
'Do you know who you really are? Are you sure it's really you'?Lies are a funny thing
They slip through your fingertips because they never happened to you
Time wounds all the heals as we fade out of view
Imagine I'd be your one and only
Instead I'm the lonely one
You, me, and a lie.
https://youtu.be/xpkRtzNUQtE
Them Crooked Vultures. From 4:20 onwards, Dave Grohl totally captures the freedom and joy inherently derived from playing the drums full-on and without restraint— a la Keith Moon.:love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCXVnd9GCU
Singer is SEE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm7Nush6-qY
ILI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg
LIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urdlvw0SSEc
ESI.
Themes: capitalism, money, imagination, over-arching tragedy, sacrifice to a loved one, power, truth, mysticism, moralist judging of wrongdoings, and sympathy towards the unfortunate.
QOTSA Misfit Love: https://youtu.be/CULuecEvxbs big, bold, sensual.
Do me first, do your worst
Gimme what I want some of
One track mind, no time to waste
Sidewalk feel me strut so good
(Gutter don’t forget this face!)
QOTSA I’m Designer: https://youtu.be/SRdKseK1JXU everyone needs a little whack. Frank cynicism.
The thing that's real for us is fortune and fame
All the rest seems like work
It's just like diamonds—in shit!
I'm high class, I'm a whore…actually both
Basically, I'm a pro
We've all got our own style of baggage—why hump it yourself?
You've made me an offer that I can refuse
'Cause either way I get screwed
Counter proposal: I go home and jerk off, Ugh!
It's truly a lie
I’m counterfeit myself…
….
You're insulted you can't be bought or sold (translation: offer too low)
You don't know what you're worth—it isn’t much
My piano's for sale
How many times must I sell myself
before my pieces are gone?
I'm one of a kind—I'm designer!
Never again will I repeat myself
Enough is never enough…
NEVER AGAIN will I repeat myself!!
Not sure of Homme’s sociotype, but I love his fearless lyrics. He seems Se valuing…perhaps Se seeking, which is why I relate. The lyrics are bold and in your face…yet at the same time self deprecating, so it’s humorous as opposed to obnoxious.
I've liked Opeth and Infected Mushroom.
Can't tell the quadra of Opeth, but Infected Mushroom doesn't seem gamma to me. Too much Ne and some songs Fe.