Printable View
If you're giving information.... :)
Could you please elaborate about what a SLE would require in the following fields:
AID: what kind of aid do you require?
COMFORT: how do you see the best way an IEI could create comfort for you?
ACCEPTANCE: What should an IEI accept about you?
AID: encourage me to do things I despise doing but have to be done...best way is to do them with me! It'll be cuz we'll spend time together...and at the same time, do something I hate which has to be done
eg. I hate school, but I'm in college right now. IEI-dood, was "aiding" me in studying (hate to do it) by offering to have me go study with him at a library...
that's about as far as aid goes...the only thing I really detest is school type settings, and school overall...
COMFORT: hug me in hard times where I'm sad or upset... ( :O ) but NOT when I'm angry...that will just piss me off even more
ask how I feel about a certain situation that's gone awry...more so, ask what I think about it, and try to get me to dissimilate it into and associate with it by giving examples of where you were in the same position and you agree with me...but don't do it, unless it's legit
ACCEPTANCE: accept the fact that when I tell stories, they will be long and detailed...especially if im super passionate about it, there will be a lot of added details that are almost irrlevant but help the story somehow
side with me, if im pissed off at someone for whatever reason, but dont put them down
don't talk about other people's physical short-comings...you never know if i in my own mind relate to them or think i posses the same however obsurd and unintentional..dont' do it...ill think you're talking indirectly about me and my downfalls...it'll just push me away...
that i have issues talking about emotions, and when I do, epseically if im telling someone how i feel about them...it will come off as agressive, confrontational, and poorly articulated...it's just sort of a defense mechanism, that I set up as safeguard in case the response is negative...i cant help it..it just happens like that
I best articulate myself in wirting (emotionally speaking) - sometimes, when I write about how I feel, it's like it's not the same person....
I speak in terms of "me, I, to me, etc etc" because it's just how i percieve things....
If you gots more questions.....ask away..i'm in a revealing mood...so by all means, while this IEI-dood has got my "openness" dam cracked...might as well take advantage of it before I fix the cracks ;)
What do you think people get wrong about you? What do they miss seeing?
How could someone help you circumvent your fear of success?
And if you want to help me in particular, please take a moment and think about the idea of a birthday gift. What would be the ideal characteristics of this birthday gift for you? Could you elaborate by throwing in few examples?
KEY!Quote:
Originally Posted by sigma
Basically, being able to take control of situations...make up your own mind, don't be a follower, be a leader so to speak. If I see someone has the ability, but they don't over-exert it...ugh sexiest thing in the world. The ability to have total control...but elect to not use it..*DROOL* Sorta like they way Obama presents himself...he has so much power over people but doesn't abuse it in fact, he is super nice and friendly with a degree of control...it's that difficult balance. It's perf.
In a way a lot of people have temptation to give their control, and their repsonsibilty over to others.
It takes a lot of effort and energy to stay in control, and take responsibility for yourself - and when you can give that away - to someone else - even if just for a period of time then it can freeing.
It's like I am here, I will help you. *reaches out hand* Now take, my hand.
I will hold you up. I will keep you strong. I will keep you safe, I will protect you. Don't worry with me you're safe, you can let go.
Which in theory leads to the "you'll probably just leave me" if there's no trust, but as trust builds it's like people can kind of "allow" other people to kind of guide them to lead them, and they'll still be able, they'll still have their own personality. But it's like they can free themselves from their normal doubts and worries and concerns.
Their mind can be easy. And they can kind of be "easily led" as long as doesn't cross their boundary thresholds, or any deeply held values. And when that's approaching they can speak up.
Want to know something messed up? I havent like...eaten in 4 days..maybe like half a grapefruit. I lost like 4lbs in 3 days, cuz I have no appetite, I work out, and I ..dont sleep as much, so I'm on here a lot more. It's great that Im losing weight and all that..but for me not to have an appetite is uber werid. I can't help it but think it has something to do with "the situation"
estp.. i can't eat when i'm stressed... i don't say stressed for that long though....
but like sometimes, it's like there's no point.
but liek, there's this insatiable side too.
anyway, strange emotional states can kidn of screw with me for a while sometimes. soemtimes like two or three hours even. but it's like, i notice more cos like.. i would normally eat then. and i'm not hungry, and this is weird.. and it's like my equilbrium is screwed.
but then, i've run into quite a few girls who just don't eat, and they don't even seem to have a reason. at least one they want to acknowledge.
but like, i seem to remember you don't have a job. and you have this relationship bullshit. and it's like these things can add up.
when people have money, they have other healthy relationships etc... one thing can't screw with them as much. so they're more resistant.
maybe you just don't have time to get emotionally involved. and you should just stay between the safety lines.
Lost of appetite is the way the dude from "Into the Wild" died... nice movie, clean death... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ESTP
I blame INFp influence....
lol
EAT..Quote:
Originally Posted by ESTP
I ate with this random guy, who knew who I was, and had met me before, and who everyone seemed to giev cigarettes too.
Anyway, he had this hanger on friend. And we were talking about bullshit, and started to demean him a bit, in a really abstract strange kind of way...
Then it was like, he was eating with us, but it's like he couldn't even finish. But how quickly we were both ready to eat his food, may have scared him. Anyway, that guy - it's like he could keep up to me when I was fast, and it's like good matching of pace. And it's like, he wasn't really making his own decisions. But then he started being self-revealing and shit.
Anyway, it's like as our intensity level was kind of high, and he was kind of falling back, it was like, hangon, that guy couldn't even reject his loser friend. But then it's like he was like, you can ask (me) for an invitation, but he couldn't even ask to be invited or included...
But yeah, anyway, we went on a kind of walk... got alcohol... he carried for me... and he kind of told me about various problems various people had with me, and we kind of related and blah, and then he kind of joined in our drinking, and he was kind of cool for a while.
Then he talked about how he was a male whore a bit much. He was kind of exaggerating and story telling, and whatever. But he was kind of funny, so it was okay. I can't really remember where things went from them.
But anyway he was clinging, and even with raising intensity, it's like he could still cling. Where some people, intensity rises and they can't cling. And it's like in the alcohol shop we were acting kind of over the top, and it's like we hadn't really even spent much time together before that. But somehow, we both started acting kind of crazy. And it's like, hey sweet :)
Want to talk about expressing myself? I shall show you this: what I wrote to INFp-dood. The letter I spoke of...I think after that is when my appetite ceased actually...bleh.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CRAPPOOOOLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAA
yah know, estp, i skimmed over what you siad... you've written longer than i've written before when trying to deal with issues in the past.
i've got this thing, where when i don't really understand situations i don't want to say too much unless i'm getting the wrong end of the stick.
this is worse with emotional situations than non-emotional situations.
I've had way more energy since giving up cigarettes. It's kind of annoying. What do I do with it all!Quote:
Originally Posted by krae
Forreal. Giving up cigs isn't easy; I've done it a few times. These days I limit myself to 1-2 Al Capones per day; I feel myself getting dependent on them if I have any more than that. And it's always good to know that, with such a low number, I can quit easily any time I want to.
Anyway, my experience with average SLEs is that they will just sort of assume you are being stupid/irrational and let you get it out; they don't mind being the "target" of emotional outbursts so much because they can "take it," so to speak, but ultimately, unless you state your case clearly, they will assume you are being stupid :lol:
I had this duality relationship with and IEI for 4 years.
But in the end, it didn't really work out. I felt so bored and frustrated and imprisoned. And I also got really tired because I finishing my bachelor's degree, working almost fullt time, paying the rent alone and supporting him because he coun't keep/find a job nor finish his education (highscool dropuot).
So I ended it. It took me a month to process the desision in my head. I had these dreams where I would leave him (and not the nightmare kind).
I just wanted to be free again and let him free. So after the breakup I ignored him (his calls and when I saw him in person). I know it must have really hurt, but for me it seemed to be the right thing to do.
It's been 3 months now, and he has a new girlfriend and seems to be doing well enougth and has gotten over me.
Here's the question for you fellow IEI's:
What would he think if I called him up and said that I wanted to be friends with him. Would he be even interested and forgive the hurting and betrayal and all that's said and done? Or is he most likely moved on and doesn't wan't to deal with me anymore?
I just kinda miss having him around. Not MISSMISS, but just a little bit. I think a little effort from both sides and it could be neat friendship.
I'm amazed an INFp has a new girlfriend so quickly, but not surprised he had trouble holding out a job of any kind.
I definately don't wan't to ruin his new relationship nor take him back. I'm glad he's happy again. We weren't. I personally believe that if a relationship didn't work then there were very good reasons for it and hoping for a different outcome is naive.
He is good friends with his ex before me and even I got along with her. But they weren't duals.
I really want the friendship thing because he did bring out the best in me and moved things in me i didn't know existed. And we had so much fun :D
PS: Europe is the location.
But will it really feel the same, given the context? Sure, there's general personality compatibility; but I'd be willing to bet a large part of what enabled the full expression of that dynamic had to do with the fact that you two were 'together.' You can't undo the creases you embed into yourself with something like a break-up: it will never be the same. I was very close with an Se-ESTp girl towards the beginning of high school. But once that faded a little, and she decided to hook up with losers, well, I couldn't ever relate to her the same. The light still shone dimly in the distance, a remnant of the unique piquancy that sustained us for so long; but what's done is done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastermind
And you seem like you just want it both ways anyway.
I agree with strrrng. My gut feeling is that this is a bad idea. I'd let him go, and move on - for both your sake and his.
Thank you all from the insight. (Especially you Mimosa *HUGS*)
I feel it can be done if we both really want it to work. I know I do.
Will call him sometime next week and see how it goes.
<fingers crossed>
that's exactly right. good luck. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastermind
Forreal. Yet, sometimes that pure dynamic gets sullied by the irrevocable effects that a separation can have. But maybe they'll get over it and be pulled back together, so your case is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
Heh, if you're staying around each other for the sake of some false mitigation of the kids' perception of your relationship, you are wrong (had to throw in some navy speak lol). Seriously though, relationships aren't sustained by circumstances; the only thing that happens there, is a gradual dilapidation of the connections of ALL people involved, until the parents forgot why they did what they did in the first place, the kids are left estranged, and no one gains anything. It's called divorce. ugh.Quote:
Often it's people who stay friends for the sake of their kids (not in my case), but if parents can, why not people without kids (like I did)?
I don't think the issue of hesitation because of fear is important here. They know how special it is; and thus, the consideration is more whether the quality of it can be revived and sustained, in the newly-found context of -break up-Quote:
Really, imo, throwing away something that is very good just because it could cause trouble, is like not living cause you might die.
Like my worn-out boxing gloves :lol:Quote:
Save the good things, work with them.
Which I'm not, so their ineffable substance cannot be fully appreciated. All I see are tears (as in, rips) and dirt stains. Metaphor hint hint.Quote:
But only if you are willing to invest.
I hit the bag for enjoyment; unfortunately, there is no possibility of mutual satisfaction with no implications involved here, so they either commit or not. But uh-oh, they're already broken up. The tides have crashed, and the ripples generated a new current. Go ahead and try to swim against it. I'll be hitting the bag aimlessly :DQuote:
It IS hard work. You have to know WHY you want it, and you have to be certain there is no jealousy/hidden agendas involved.
Above.Quote:
I think everyone has to judge themselves if it's the right thing or not. Even though it's right for me, and wrong for Akra and possibly for you, doesn't mean it's the same for others. Just don't throw away good things for the wrong reasons.
Try a powerful infatuation that existed in a frenzied state for several years. I wasn't mature enough to understand what true fascination meant -- because it pertains to beauty, and beauty can only be known through maturity and self-degradation. blah blah.Quote:
You know, it's really not fair to compare your fascination with an SLE girl in high-school with living together for 4 years.
Sometimes the two are intertwined, and trying to regain one without the other results in even more pain, albeit more gradual and unnoticed, than simply letting the end exist. But who knows.Quote:
After those 4 years, it's like losing both a family member and a lover. Why throw away the family member just because you lose your lover? Not for everybody, I guess, but it has worked for me. (Other than that, I basically agree with what you are saying, and I see a lot of people messing up things because of such relations. But not everybody.)
Maybe this is type related...Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
I once held your opinion--UNTIL I got back together with an ex and it was better than even the first time.
All I'm saying is... Don't close your mind to it.
And to the OP... Don't let these battle-hardened bitter fucks bring you down. :) It can be even better the 2nd time. I know
Are you still with this person now JuJu?Quote:
Originally Posted by JuJu
I think it's probably more dependent on the circumstances surrounding the breakup than type. The way Rastermind described it sounded kind of cold to me. Of course, I wasnt there and don't know these people. I think there are times when getting back together or becoming friends would be feasible, and others, not so much. I hate this phrase but: YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuJu
My female SLE friend lived with a guy (ENFP) for 4 years then split up and they are still friends (she was sick of supporting him and his moaning). They get along brilliantly now (although he now complains she talks too much!). After the split he went travelling with his new girlfriend for a year and they kept in touch over email (there was a need to keep in touch as they had bought the flat together and had to sort out the legal side of things). Anyway generally the first few months of a new relationship are very intense in my opinion. The pros of getting in touch just now is the new girlfriend can adjust to you being there at the outset however on the downside she may get really jealous. I would suggest sending an email rather than calling as it will give the IEI time to think things over then hopefully if he is open to friendship continuing with email for a while until a bit of time has passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastermind
.
^^ Reality check. It's pretty much that you won't capture the evanescent hope that's streamlining in front of your eyes; -- the winds have already permeated your minds, out, out! -- keep picking at the scar, it isn't healed.
Consider: why are you questioning this on an internet type forum? Peoples' decontextualized responses aren't assurance; they're the result of your self-fulfilling band-aid prophecy.
My old golden retriever was awesome, just lit up my heart. But she had a cancer, something similar to whatever gradual problem seemed to be detracting from your relationship. We put her down, disseminated her ashes over Lake Tahoe -- beautiful.
Just let the purity remain intact before you vitiate whatever -was- there, to begin with.
I agree it's a bad idea. If you have to ask strangers if it's a good idea or not, then it's a bad idea. If you have a good feeling about it, then you would just go ahead and do it, without asking anybody for permission.
That is the flipside when somebody asks for advice, because we all innately do not like being told what to do.
Ni would generally dictate that when something is over it's over. Also in general when I hear that a person is hanging out with their ex I feel a negative kind of pity for both parties because they're being tools. Thus I would advise against any sort of relapse in this case.
I agree with this statement BUT this happens if the Ni does the "is over" part.Quote:
Originally Posted by misutii
I don't believe in what we call in my country "reheated soup" however, I do believe in people evolving and in break-ups caused by insufficient spiritual development.
Sometimes you meet some old friend and he/she is better. I wouldn't bet on this tho, it can happen but is extremely unlikely to happen.
Maybe these are just my observations. However, I've noticed that very few people are OK with their gf/bf/etc. "hanging out" with their ex (I wouldn't be, and often when a person says they're OK with it they're just being passive-aggressive). There may very well be a window of opportunity to get back together immediately following the relationship, when both parties are single. However, that is not the case in this situation. In other words the window is closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
Also one of my pet peeves is people that are always breaking up and then getting back together with the same person. Reminds me of a soap opera and if soap operas need to exist they should stay on the TV.
Are there exceptions to this working?? Im an IEI male and I was with an SLE female a while ago but it didn't work out. However during the relationship distance became a factor so...just wondering...
Exceptions to compatibility, sure; many factors affect that. Maybe you could be a bit more specific, to aid assessment of your case.
language difference, she just isn't your type erotically. For example if you're really turned on by skinny blondes and your dual happens to be a chubby brunette, it's just naive to think that won't be a barrier.
Culture and political differences. Duals can have different political leanings. Different points of interests and not finding enough things to talk about.... 'opposites attract' to a certain extent. But you might just grew up in too different of places to really connect on anything even if the psychological energy is great.
And also IMO duals thrive the best when you're in a competitive environment, when a lot of people are against you and shit, and so they can save you/blanket you from shit. If you already are safe, comfortable- it's too easy to overlook ur dual. I look at is as playing a mmorpg. Having pure-specced tanks and healers for most encounters is overkill and even counter-productive. But when you're fighting a hard raid boss, it's essential. You and your dual are very pure-spec classes (iei=healer, sle=tank) and such naturally show how much of a team you are when a physical challenge is present. That also creates the feeling that the relationship is worth it and has somewhere to go, in physical space.
EVERYTHING IN LIFE ALWAYS WORK OUT 100% THE FIRST TIME AROUND.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sueno
Of course there are exceptions! There are a lot of other factors beside socionics type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sueno
Sexual attraction, intellectual attraction, education.
Also, distance is a major issue if it happens in an immature relationship (at the beginning).
This makes alot of sense...Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
I mean it lasted 3 months the last month becoming long distance because of school. It was the most fun I had in a relationship even though she was extremely blunt and very cold. Its just the way she ended it, basically like she didn't care. Which in the end made me feel like she let me go because I was no longer convenient to have around despite all the fun we had in the past.
You are an IEI... so, be an IEI! Answer to yourself: is this true? she didn't care? You should know that SLE can put this kind of image as a form of protection, you should be able to see past that image!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sueno
I mean she even said she cared and said that hopefully we could work somethin out in the future, but her actions aren't congruent with what she said which is what was so confusing for me. But I suppose you're right sigma. I definitely picked up on quite a bit of resistance from her. But resistance from what?? hmm (evil smirk).
Life is never easy, you always have to make choices and sometime, both alternatives are bad. Conflicting dreams... etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sueno
Uhm... When I hang out with my duals - LSIs I feel like I'm giving them ideas and they just feel like it's achievable and so we're doing it together :D.
This is how beta ST completes beta NF.
I'm still waiting for my IEI dual. . . . I'll tell you what though, they need to hurry the fuck up 'cause I'm not gonna wait around forever!
GET OUT THERE. They're waiting for you matey!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuze
Ni "people who tend hesitate and wait for the right moment"
They are dead zombies and get stuck and hesitate all the time without Se.
so that quiet chick whos not really doing shit and just kinda flittling about...
yes...Quote:
Originally Posted by jughead
Here is some more info on dualisation: if you're an SLE male "waiting" for something to happen, you're either (1) being lazy, (2) not an SLE or (3) completely retarded about what you're capable of and what you should be doing if you want to get the girls/guys you want to get.
If you're an SLE female, know that some IEI guys will attempt to fulfil the social roll of chaser rather than chased. I don't really see any contradiction with being an aggressor and the chased - aggressor status is had in a relationship, status of chased is had during the hunt. Also be wary that some guys are turned off by girls who chase. But that could just be me. However, THIS DOES NOT MEAN shut up and don't be interesting - that is not being chased, that's acting like a bland fuck, and you will not ever have any interesting people to end up with ever, and thus you will lead an unhappy life filled with single-fuck, disposable men.
If you're an IEI female: take the italics as advice. Other than that, sit back and pick your man as you please.
If you're an IEI male, some female SLEs may - like males who encounter bold and aggressive chaser females - actually be turned off by your forwardness if you're trying to play the social role of the male chaser. It's all about knowing your goal (the one you want to end up with). And aren't you lot pretty good at that?
It just struck me that that has absolutely nothing to do with either the original post, or with dualisation.
Duality should be so obvious if you're a part of it that you won't be asking questions about whether it's duality or not. After three or four months and you'll know for sure. Sometimes you can know before then - depending on how much you see and interact with them. If you saw and interacted with them every day for example, then obviously it would be much less time.
I think with any dual pair, if one or especially both of them hasn't been "dualized", then there's an adjustment period where one or both people are acting the way they usually do instead of out of their ego block. If they spend enough time around each other, the times when they do act out of their ego block are rewarded and they learn to do it more. (And your reward for offering input from your ego block? More of your super id!) This adjustment period can actually be a little bit awkward, but not uncomfortable. They're learning how to be themselves, essentially. Learning how to act out of their ego block.
Duals also need to learn that they can trust their dual to cover for their weaknesses, that they don't need to worry so much about their super ego block.
It's super awesome to be around someone who really needs and really values your input, and vice versa.
My IEI brother and SLE sister-in-law met in high school. Brother was 16. :o They're now in their mid-30s and still happy as clams together!
Omg...highschool sweethearts. Lucky ^ ^, wish them a happy life. Oo do they have kids? and when did they make them? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
no kids! two cats and a dog. they run a business and that takes all their time and energy. But they love it. It was a conscious decision on their part.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz
Yeah, I met an SLE/IEI couple on New Year's Eve that had been together since high school and for maybe the first time in my life I saw a relationship that made complete sense to me. It was a strangely eye-opening experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
I met a dual a few months ago. We were both physically attracted to each other at first. We hung out a few times and I felt really drawn towards her and missed her even though we didn't know each other that well. She later asked if it was okay if we were just friends, and she seemed to lose romantic interest. However, she seems really interested in being friends and contacts me to get together or just say hello, or get dinner or something. If we go through long periods without talking, she will eventually reach out to me.
Should I hold out hope that our duality will magically make her romantically interested again if we remain friends, or should I just move on?
I don't really hold onto anybody anymore because people always disappoint you in many ways. I loved this one person, but he totally ruined his life and got sent to prison. Only love somebody if they love you just as much, ya know? I sent him letters (but I don't know if he got them), waited 5+ years for this man, it was pretty stupid -- but at the time I didn't think of it that way, because I was in love, so I was being really hopeful, naive and ideal. I loved him so much but it just wasn't enough to make him into a person worthy to be in a healthy relationship.
Love is overrated, because people do their own thing all the time regardless of how much they love somebody. Addiction is stronger than love. Selfishness is stronger than love. I just wish it wasn't true, but it is. My love for people couldn't stop them from doing all sorts of things that were self-destructive, and their love couldn't stop me from my bad habits.
I think instead of love you guys have to be friends first. I think love can only blossom as the real thing unless there's a friendship going on. I'm more thankful for my friends then I am for my lovers anyway. If you want love to be the real thing and last, make sure that person is your friend more than anything else. I'm also wary of love that happens 'right away.' It sounds like it was just really good lust that you might have convinced yourself as love. There aint nothin wrong with fuck buddies but don't call it love just to make yourself feel better or something.
And also love sucks because you really love this one person more than yourself and your own happiness and expense of all other reality, and it makes you see things not very clearly. also love is equality. a heart has two equal things.... formed together to make one heart. So it's a mental illness/insanity to love somebody who doesn't love you back.
Just ask her out. If she refuses, just let it go. If she comes back later, then good- but don't cling onto this hope. Assume that she's just a friend if that's what she wants. Otherwise, it will eat you up alive.
Did you kiss? Or 'do anything' with each other? ;) Otherwise you may have gotten friend-zoned.Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
Hey Mountain Dew (I love that drink, by the way)... We held hands a few times, never ended up kissing though. She would give me really long hugs the first few times we hung out, then we kind of transitioned into friend hugging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Dew
I'm still attracted to her. She did at one point (after asking if we could just be friends) say that she likes to get to know someone really well first before dating, and isn't the type that can start dating someone she just meets. Doesn't seem typical of an ESTp though, so who knows what happened.
Hold out for duality unless someone comes along that you fall in love with and with whom you want to spend the rest of your life.
I will wait for an EIE. I'll pick them out of crowds, assess them, size them up, interact with them, and engage them if I think they're excellent enough for me (I'm a catch, face it).
However, I will also happily accept a fun, outgoing IEI who likes to talk about intellectual stuff and who is really into me. I don't want to feel like SLEs are always tugging at their strings.
I'd also not mind a smart, fun ESE. The Si/Se thing isn't much of a hurdle, and the opposing hidden agendas can be shirked off after minor rows.
Hmm. I've dated girls before without knowing them really. Kind of a learn-as-you-go thing lol. :P But it could be a sex thing. If she's a girl, might be more natural/safer for her to get to know a guy first. So friends first.Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
But I've also been incredibly patient before too. And gotten to know/watch people before making a move. That's characteristic of ESTp to really size someone up first, and judge them.
Overall it sounds like she's interested. Especially if she mentioned she has to know someone first, and liked you originally and held your hand. I'd say go for it.
How do you go for it? :hello: Well, if you're INFp, you're probably really shy. But just put yourself out there for her to contact you. Can you message/chat with her on facebook? Text or something? If she's SLE and interested, she'll want to start talking with you more/hanging out with you/spending more time with you. Could be a fairy-tale friend-first thing that grows.
Not to forget, if it is duality, the beginning stages are really tough. Getting to know each other. Most likely to fail early on. So just be patient. ;) Keep spending time with each other.
And of course, I love Mountain Dew too. :D
This too. Forgot to mention: are you dating anyone else right now? Maybe casually 'pursue' this girl, spend time with her, until someone else comes along, or things start going really well. What have you got to lose? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
We do email back and forth lengthy emails sometimes. She sends really long, nice, thoughtful emails when she does respond. She is always very excited about everything, it's cute and interacting with her makes me more of an optimistic person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Dew
I have been letting her contact me first and ask me when she wants to hang out now. I've backed off since she has asked to be just friends... and strangely she has been asking to hang out more. She will ask to do date-like things, like go see a movie or get dinner together. I assume she just likes to have a lot of friends since she is extroverted.
With all that said though, I think I ended up making a mistake the last time we got together if there was any romantic chance left. Assuming I had been friend zoned, I brought up another girl that I had went on a date with the previous week and hooked up with and felt guilty about (since I normally don't do the one night stand thing and it is out of character for me). Anyway, she was still nice of course, but after I mentioned that I noticed the vibe between us changed a bit, and she started looking everywhere around the room except for me, and she wanted to head out shortly after. We haven't talked as much after that night as we normally do.
I'll stop rambling now before I end up with a novel here :)
P.S. Thanks everyone for your input! I appreciate all of your responses!
Don't get caught up in an obsession with a dual. Just get out, reclaim your emotional autonomy, and find a better one. I say this from years of experience dealing with girls/women.
Cool... thanks for the advice! You're right. I tend to worry, over analyze, and focus in on one thing/situation, but I am trying to work on a healthier approach to both life and dating.Quote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
That's kind of how things started with my girlfriend too. :D It was exciting hearing from her and telling her everything, and hearing about her life and thoughts as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
Don't assume going to the movies or dinner with you means just friends! It most likely means the opposite. You do mean you go just the two of you? None of her friends as well? Even then, she might just be trying to get to know you better. To be comfortable around you.Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
Tell her you're sorry and would like to hang out more! You can't let something like that go. That's very hard on her to deal with. I would be upset and probably just leave too... you'd have to assure her it was a mistake, look her in the eyes, let her know you're interested in only her.Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
Let her know it won't happen again, and you've learned from your mistake. You have, haven't you? ;) :P Gotta let her know!
Yes just the two of us go. She actually asked me to get dinner last weekend, which happened to be the day before valentine's day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Dew
I did apologize to her in an email the next day. I didn't tell her that I was interested in her still (cause I am still trying to assume she wants to be friends so I don't get my hopes up). I apologized saying that I felt embarrassed for telling her, and felt bad for sleeping with someone I didn't really know that well, and just felt bad in general. She replied with a nice email, saying that she felt bad I was embarrassed and she hoped she hadn't done anything to make me feel that way. She also told me that she didn't want me to feel bad. She then went on to tell me how her day was going, and then wished me a happy valentine's day. In her email she sounded just as enthusiastic as she did in all of her other emails. I wrote back to that one, but then haven't heard from her since, which IS unusual for her... Oh and P.S. yes, I did learn from my mistake, and realize now I shouldn't have blabbered on about it. I guess we just gotta keep living and learning :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Dew
:oops: I was with ya till this last part. I meant learn from your mistake as not giving in to your impulse and sleeping with someone you don't know that well. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
Of course, you might not regret it... but just. Regretting "blabbing" about it and not doing it? :( So you're not sorry you did it, just sorry you 'got caught'? Had to face consequences?
I don't know if I could date someone who wasn't strong enough to resist their impulses, and might cheat on me. I'm hoping this is just a miscommunication, that you're honestly sorry for it. I hope your told that girl that you're not just sorry for 'going on' and telling her about it, but sorry for doing it...
Actions speak louder than words...
*steps away from SLE lecture stand*
Thanks again for your input Mountain Dew, it is helpful :) In answer to your questions, I did feel bad about doing it yes, sleeping with someone I didn't know that well that is. I also felt bad for telling other people about it in general. The whole situation generally made me feel like a bad person - and I told her that I was sorry for all of the above. Don't worry, guilt is my middle name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Dew
I am single and not dating anyone at the moment, so I don't think it was a totally bad thing, but it still just didn't feel right and is not my normal way of going about things. Also, I have never cheated on someone, and don't ever intend to.
When I tell someone I just want to be friends, there's no changing my mind. No amount of hanging out having good times with that person will change it. Once you're friend-zoned, you'll always be friend-zoned with me and it bothers me a lot when the other can't accept it and still keeps up hope then I have to keep regecting them.
Fair enough. You must be quite charming to have them keep coming back :-P If someone says they want to be just friends, I typically accept this info, am sad for awhile, then move on. It's harder when the other person sends out mixed signals (or what appear to be mixed signals to me) because I will start holding on to hope if I am really interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by jessica129
I have also been on the other end of the situation. Being on both ends (which I'm sure most of us have been) helps you to get a better idea of how to handle things - what to do and what not to do. Rejection is just hard to handle for everyone in general, and I find it can be tricky to remain friends right afterward sometimes.
No. Go out, have fun, meet other mature and ready to have a relationship dual.
Stop analyzing. you shouldn't care, you're an E type remember? You're reconciling with values which is a part of rationalizing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Dew
Duality friendship is like any other friendship: if it didn't kick off at the start, it's highly unlikely to kick off now - especially if she explicitly stated she just wants to be your friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
However, you may be in with a chance. Depends what you want. I wouldn't wait around though; I'd go seeking an SLE who really likes you.
BTW, I recognise that it's much harder for IEI males to pursue SLE females, not only because sometimes it's all to easy to fall into that stereotype of a 'shoulder to cry on'. If you want these women from the outset, be a bit more masculine. You might get them.
HOWEVER, having said that, I have an IEI good friend who got with his SLE friend FOUR YEARS after having known each other (remaining friends in that time).
@ Starfall - Haha, I found your post both amusing and helpful, thank you :) Very good points.
@ ananke - I did tell her I was interested in more than friends, and this is when she requested to be just friends. The "hope" I was referring to came about when she started contacting me more afterward and sending signals which seemed mixed to me.
In conclusion, I agree it is time to move on and let go of this situation. On a positive note, at least I got some good experience out of the situation. I know a little more about the personality of a dual, since she's been the first one I've met that I know of.
Don't tell me what to do. :mad: And don't tell me how to act based on my personality type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritsa33
I guess that would be healthy then to move on. If you hung out and had a chance to kiss, but didn't, and never did anything to think of the other person sexually, then :thumbsup: for taking it as experience and moving on to find someone else. Sounds like you didn't have much of any type of actual relationship, for any period of time, sorry, so just let this one rest. On a more positive note, you seem like the kind of person who would be able to heal and move on fairly easily. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by slownumbers
Very good point, octopuslove! I like your way of thinking. The thought definitely crossed my mind... Even though she just wanted to be friends, I was interested in continuing the friendship because I did enjoy spending time with her of course, and I wanted to learn what my dual was like since I had never met one.Quote:
Originally Posted by octopuslove
Although that was the plan, I decided it's probably best to step back for a few different reasons. 1) I have a history of getting into "unrequited love" situations. I start to hang out with someone, develop feelings for them, and it is strictly platonic for them. At first it is fun, but then later it can be painful, when they start dating someone else, etc. 2) I notice hanging out with her puts a damper on other dating situations I attempt to pursue. Because I like her so much, when I'm on a date with another girl, I start thinking about her. Not good :)
With that said though, I hope someday down the road, once I'm over liking her romantically, that we can be good friends! :D
Great advice. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ananke
Yeah.
well iei's are idealists.
If she is ESTp she will eventually have sex with you regardless of whether she considers you just a friend, so yeah you should just go along with it. Just get drunk or high with her and you'll probably end up having sex. You should buy some marijuana and alcohol and tell her you really want to drink it with her.
- Get them a puppy.
- Wait like half a year so that they become attached to it.
- Abduct puppy.
- Inform SLE that puppy will die unless they agree to permanently enter into an intimate relationship with you.
- Give back puppy, along with reminder to SLE that the puppy cannot be hidden from you.
- Pat puppy on head.
cggghv mjhk
They'd most likely be an H-SLE/C-IEI duality. The SLE would be withdrawn and grumpy, and the IEI flighty, fantasy-driven and idealistic, in a manner that the SLE finds wonderfully amusing and inspiring. They'd have this GRAND GLORIOUS AWESOME VISION, which would inspire the SLE, possibly enough to shake them out of their torpor and say LET'S DO IT! (integration into 3), at which point they'd take point.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbornesia
It's possible. IEI 1s are usually either :Ne: subtype or some kind of N subtype (IEI-Se doesn't much lend itself to 1-ish idealism). SLE 9 is almost guaranteed to be Harmonizing subtype, however -- normally SLE-Si, but SLE-Ni fits as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbornesia
With socionics gaining in popularity, a number of MBTI INFJs have been discovering that they are IEIs and declaring a hunt after SLEs or praising their SLE hubbies and baes. A few groups are overflowing with these discussions :oops:
..I'm an INFJ married to an ESTP. We balance each other out in many areas. He's helped me come out of my shell so much. We do butt heads at times when it comes to me wanting to be by myself or when I don't want to go out and he does... but nothing major. We always find a compromise. Some areas, especially our goofy sides, are nearly identical. He's my best friend and I love him to pieces.... and the sex is fantastic
..Not sure about the fall in love thing because i don't know any INFJ men that I'm aware of. But I have a few friends and some of the reasons they say they like me is 1) I do or say things they never would have. 2) I keep them semi-grounded and not let them become paralyzed with the endless scenarios of what could happen. Basically, just shut the fuck up and do it and if you don't die, you win. 3.) For some stupid reason they think I can do anything. So not true, but apparently I fake it pretty damn well. 4.) Because I'm fucking awesome...duh! ESTP.
..I have a friend who's an ESTP. He's a bit more cerebral than advertised, so we have good conversations about theoretical but practical things (prison systems, whether he'd bang a ****** who passes, etc.). Also, the ones I've known are great story tellers, loud, animated, active, playful, resourceful, creative, straightforward/blunt, charismatic, persuasive, fearless... I am none of that, so it's pretty titillating.
..I know an estp/in*j couple and it is the most weird bizarre match but they somehow work and have been together 5 years now. They're cute together but it's fucking weird and doesn't make sense to me. I guess I see the INxJ ground the ESTP and the estp actually give the INxJ something to live for lol. enfp.
..I think ESTP seem confident and edgy which seems to create attraction but honestly can lead to horrible relationships. They are the bad boys, the confident dudes that draw women of all types. Infjs are intrigued by the duality. As an Infj male, this fascinates me. I would rather not be with any st type. It would drive me insan
..I can see this. I have said similar things about me (infj) and my husband (estp). I said I keep him grounded, and he puts wind in my sails. If I have an idea or something I'd like to do he becomes my greatest cheerleader. "You can do it. Go for it! What can I do to help? Or here's how I would go abut it..." He gives me just the right encouragement and support I need to go after my dreams rather than just dream them
Real life experience ...
I'm an INFJ who is uncontrollably in love with a crazy ESTP man.
Why?
Because he...
0) ... is wild and impulsive
1) ... teaches me to be fearless
2) ... bring new and exciting experiences to my life
3) ... get me out of my comfort zones and take risks
4) ... doesn't give a damn about what people think
5) ... live in the moment
6) ... speak up for myself, he acts as my superhero
7) ... is the ultimate masculine
8 ) ... is dependable and reliable, always keep his promises (is this rare for an ESTP?)
9) ... spontaneous, always active, never boring - keep fire under my ass and get me moving.
10) ... very practical and hold me grounded
11) ... blunts, no sugar coatings which sometimes hurts my feelings but I like his honesty
12) ... brings out my competitive edge, making me better at the work place
13) ... always response immediately when I text: "I need your help" - very adorable. Otherwise he's normally non-commutative when we're not together.
14) ... has great sense of style 15) ... has luxurious tastes and very generous
16) ... gallantry, a rare trait for modern men. He always open and close car's doors and pull out chairs for me in restaurants
17) ... extremely confident, huge ego
18) ... high handed, I became very feminine in his presence and loving it.
19) ... giving me a sense of safety and protected when he's around
20) ... very boyish and devilish when trying to show off - I think it's cute!
21) ... amazing sense of humour and wits
22) ... seems rude and cold because of his words but he has a very warm heart. Very devoted to his family and friends.
23) ... always ready to help if needed, even with a stranger.
24) ... has high standards for himself and others
25) ... hard working, he can't stand idleness. Laziness drives him nut
26) ... short terms goals oriented. He doesn't like long term planning. This part drives me mad ��
27) ... is very playful, help people relieve stresses
28) ... no surprises, he can deals with any given dilemmas.
29) ... super strong will, won't take no for an answer.
30) ...flirtatious and charming to the opposite sex - I'm not a fan, but it's part of his personality. Got to love the whole package.
31) ... physically affectionate, doesn't let me get out of his reach when we're alone.
32) ... does household chores
33) ... loves to cook for me
34) ... mind blowing skills in the sacks - extremely giving and great manner - got what I mean? ��
35) ... making me the best version of myself
What else can a woman wish for in a man?
These are only few of the reasons why an INFJ fall in love with an ESTP.
I admired the qualities in him which I lack and vice versa.
It is not a philosophy or ideology, it's a reality!
We are truly the vision of Ying & Yang. He's the ultimate masculine to my feminine.
I also believe that this pairing can only work with mature or well developed INFJ females and ESTP males.
Especially, it can be extremely difficult for INFJ males and ESTP females - the roles would be reverse and the relationship can easily crash and burn!
My current partner is an ESTP (male) and I am an INFJ (female). Let's start with the pros:
We have opposite strengths in nearly every area. Both of us are always bringing something new to the relationship because we are so oddly different. It's the prime example of opposites attract!
1) He keeps me grounded simply because he is always in the present. He lives very "in the now". So when I slip off into my INFJ spirals of ruminating thoughts that circles around and around in my head, he can logically,calmly, and quickly pull me out.
2) I am his ultimate help mate when it comes to "the little things". Since I am very detail oriented I don't mind picking up on the little things he doesn't like to be bothered with or simply overlooks. He adores this about me! So many times he turns to me and says "good save!!"
3) We don't have theatrical arguments. He doesn't get thrown by my emotions. When he senses me getting overly emotional he combats it with logic. Not stern/mean logic but he has a very calm way of reasoning and it usually makes me forget why I was upset in the first place. So even when we do fight it's VERY short lived.
4) Both people are very accepting of the other. We don't try to change each other. I am who I am and he is who he is, and neither of us rock that boat, if needed we truly always try to flex to make the other comfortable.
Now let's get on to the bad:
1) He unintentionally hurts my feelings at times. As I've said he is very logical and with that he can be blunt to a fault. To him he doesn't mean harm, he is simply being truthful. This is something that seems to be a constant work in progress. As I've said we are both very flexible when it comes to each other so he tries not to be so harsh, as I try to developed a "thicker skin." This isn't a bad thing because both of us could use amendment in this particular area.
2) Stereotypical: I feel like as a pair we fall into the stereotypical gender roles. This isn't bad depending on who you are or who you are surrounded by, but I do feel people judge us on this. My Partner is the perfect example of the "All American Man" and he takes pride in that. While I am quite comfortable being his helpmate, stay-at-home mom (when the time comes). ALOT of people judge us for this. Its almost as if we encourage these behaviors in each other , but other people see it as "outdated".
I'm a very abstract thinker. He is not. It's very important for us to have outlets and friends of our own because many times our conversations don't really line up. We can talk about things but many times as are coming from totally different angles and someone gets lost.
Although many our strengths are very different, we share many similar weaknesses. So when things go bad for us, they tend to get really really bad. Example, both of us are weak in regulating emotions, so there tend to be a lot of outburst. Not necessarily at each other, just in general. There have been times where I burst out in tears and since he couldn't sooth me, he also becomes emotional or upset. Emotions are a big issues for us, because neither person is good at controlling theirs when they do bubble over. The problem is we both hold emotion in until it has nowhere to go and it has to come out, that's what usually results in the emotional outburst.
Nobody likes to rock the boat...EVER!!!!! We rather suffer in silence than risk shaking the relationship. This scares me at times because if/when children even come into the picture this is what they will see growing up. It will go, mom and dad are clearly upset at each other, and something doesn't seem right, and both have been going around the house bitter for weeks, and suddenly over dinner someone will say "pass the salt", and that's when all the shit hits the fan! It's a scary thought honestly!
..I was first drawn in because of the ESTP charm and charisma, sense of humor very much aligned with mine. And good looks/flashy almost flamboyant style of doing everything. I was hooked by the sexiness and romanticism. I also feel (and am) very protected by my estp husband. He is a very strong and brave man, but is gentle and sweet with me. He's popular with everyone but reserves his "true self" for me. We also support and encourage one another toward self-improvement. He supported me through college and I have helped him build a successful business, and we have always worked together toward a shared goal (retirement by 50). We both grew up poor and come from pretty dysfunctional families, so we give each other a "safe space" to be ourselves and someone we know we can depend on.
Long before we learned of mbti, we used to muse about us being two halves of a whole, because my strengths are his weaknesses and vice versa. So together we feel unstoppable. (One small example: he is a hands on and visual learner and a doer and can fix anything so long as he can see all the parts to see how it works. I learn by reading and studying, researching, etc. So when we have something that requires reading the manual to set up, he will first try to wing it but if he runs into a hiccup, he will hand me the manual and tell me to "nerd out on this" and then tell him what to do.)
Most of all, I like him (not just love--I genuinely like the guy) because he is exciting. He is never boring, always up to something and trying something new and taking me along for the ride. I bore very easily, and most other people tend to get on my nerves after a while. Neither is a problem with him
I've already posted on another thread about my own experience with my dual. I'll just leave a link to the post here:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...97#post1283297
IEI - Emily Dickinson, SLE - Susan Gilbert
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/e...=pocket-newtab
That was so cringe to watch through that my heart feels weird at the moment. I’d heard of this before but never looked into it. I agree with your typing of them though. I doubt they’re alphas as alphas usually aren’t that knuckle-draggy. I’m a little taller than average, actually around or taller than what the height of the main character is supposed to be lol, and I have been into shorter guys, so I can relate in that sense too.Quote:
Originally Posted by faith
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Yah it’s definitely not for an older audience nor for people who don’t watch anime. It’s extremely niche :’)
I thought it was cute. I've seen a real life male SLE and female IEI meet, kind of as last resorts, kind of not believing that the other was any kind of a possibility, and then just locking on.Quote:
Originally Posted by faith
Thanks for the mental image of someone having gotten @Adam Strange to watch anime, @faith lol.
Hey, I liked Nausicaa and Cowboy Bebop. Also a lot of the Studio Ghibli movies. I tried Death Note but got bored. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Are you saying that there's more? More anime?
Don’t watch anime you’ll scare the ESIsQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
How would that scare them? I mean, I'm not disagreeing. Most of the male ESI's that I know watch sports exclusively. They might not have four chairs, but they have a big screen TV tuned to the sports channel. And I can't recall an ESI ever mentioning anime, so you might be right. But why do you think you're right?Quote:
Originally Posted by faith
This is white people anime
https://youtu.be/zUstszFdjmo
Female IEI animal youtuber speaks of relationship with abusive SLE musician
Dunno. This Jonny Craig guy looks ILE to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
He looks more like ILE Conan O'Brien than God of Comedy SLE Bill Burr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcs4YYrDht0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I’m assuming you’re a lot older than me, and that you didn’t grow up watching anime nor was it really that popular during your high school days, which is the main factor for why most ESIs your age won’t watch it. It really needs getting used to. Being interested in Japanese cartoons was a social death sentence lol.
But even if you show them something like that now they ‘won’t feel like it’s them’. ESIs aren’t interested in anything that’s not concrete (?) the ones I know won’t watch Harry Potter for example. It has to be something that really relates to them and what they would like to achieve. My ESI cousin watches anime, but only ones that specifically relate to the topic of freedom. My SEE friend watches the Avengers because she really values strength.
Since we, XSIs are very quick to judge, they will never give it enough time to find something they like.
"Quick to judge". Yeah, I think that's true. I think I've seen that a few times. And once they make up their minds, they don't change them easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by faith
"ESI's aren't interested in anything that's not concrete". I think I've seen that before, too. So, future promises mean nothing, but cold, hard cash gets their attention? Hmmm. This could simplify things considerably. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uTcw_A80Bo
She cried for an hour about him getting her addicted to heroin, raping her and pushing her into a fridge etc lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange