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Let's type some nations...or stereotypes!
Spain - ENFp :Ne: :Fi:
Italy - ESTp :Se: :Ti:
Germany - ISTj :Ti: :Se:
USA - ENTj :Te: :Ni:
England - ESTj :Te: :Si:
Canada - INTj :Ti: :Ne:
Japan - ENTp :Ne: :Ti:
France - ISFp :Si: :Fe:
Norway - INFp :Ni: :Fe:
Russia - ESTp :Se: :Ti:
Australia - ISTp :Si: :Te:
China - INTp :Ni: :Te:
I <3 this forum :)
(everybody make sure to stick around for next month when we'll be typing ****** and Einstein!)
LoL ... yeah, this forum never gets old.
Russia is :Ni: :Fe:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Spain might be :Ne: :Fi: , but it might also be :Fe: :Ni:
Italy - :Se: :Fi:
Japan - an extraverted country???
I'm for :Fe: :Si: for France
Norway strikes me as a Delta Quadra country, either :Te: :Si: or :Si: :Te: , but I'm not sure.
hmmm.... Perhaps it just never gets new? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
When I first encountered the idea that Sweden is INTj, I didn't understand what those Russian socionists had in mind (my own guess would have been ISXj for Sweden). But when I saw a very interesting TV documentary/discussion program about Swedish mentality (consisting of seven 30 minutes sessions) all the pieces suddently fit together and it all made perfect sense. The Russian socionists were right -- Sweden really is an INTj country.
what the hell does any of this mean?
Uhh, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Although I don't claim to know exactly, if you've been to a foreign country the differences are obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by niffweed17
if somebody can show me an example of duality between foreign countries and an example of a foreign country's weak functions, i might consider assigning socionic types to foreign countries.
I don't think that's what it is meant, obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by niffweed17
Countries have a different "feel" or "social atmosphere" or "unspoken rules" or whatever. As has been noted, in countries such as France people generally value dressing well much more than in the US. So it's valid to say that France values :Si: + :Fe: more than the US.
Also, try finding a bookshop - a real bookshop - in a Belgian town. Then try finding a bookshop in a town of the same size in the UK. I can assure you that it is infinitely easier to find it in the UK than in Belgium. So, it is fair to say that the UK values :Te: more than Belgium.
In some countries, if you, as a young man, don't obviously ogle every woman who walks in front of you, you are gay. In others, to do that is seen as rude and showing an embarrasing lack of self-control. So the former value EP and the latter, IJ temperaments.
Etc.
I've said before that types don't translate ideally to nations or groups, which are designed to be self-sufficient and expansive -- as opposed to people, which are designed to cooperate and be interdependent. So the logic of intertype relations doesn't carry over well.
So you're right in questioning intertype relations between groups or countries. There may be a few intriguing examples, but far too many exceptions to take it very seriously. Sympathies between countries shift a lot as things go in and out of fashion.
You can see in Russia, for example, a distinct rejection of the Anglo-Saxon life philosophy and governing style. They are very sensitive about it and find a :Te: -based worldview almost evil. On the other hand, Russians as a group have always been sympathetic towards Germans and Germans culture (their "activators") despite the world war (!).
The English are prone to honor all sorts of useless traditions just because they "go back a long time."
Italy and other :Se: countries have a macho culture where men look at women's butts and whistle as they walk past, or walk up to them to offer to take them somewhere. Sex is discussed constantly, even between strangers. At the same time, the Italians can't overcome corruption, because :Fi: habits (informal solutions and personal connections) are built into the system at every level.
Strict observance of procedures and "faith in the system" are built into most logical cultures. Americans, for example, are incredibly trusting of organizations and procedures and are routinely deceived in ethical countries because of their gullibility and assumption that strangers will take care to keep their word and only say things if they intend to do them.
In Spain and other countries with strong :Fe: , people routinely ask strangers about their relationships and discuss their own relationship woes. This is taboo for other cultures where this is seen as being "personal." Americans ask strangers about their work and profession and go into great detail about their own activities, which is taboo in places like Russia, where this is perceived as being too "personal." Each culture perceives some information aspects as being more personal than others.
I think there are good reasons to apply socionics to large groups like nations, but it has its limits.
Also, as Expat said, :Te: is usually associated with the availability of useful information like "how to reserve a hotel" or how to get anything done. The English and Americans are kings at this -- just look at instruction manuals from the U.S. where everything is spelled out "for idiots." Here in Ukraine people are always shocked and impressed by these instruction manuals, but end up laughing at them. In Ukraine there is a chronic lack of useful information at every level. It's just assumed that if you need to know something, you will somehow automatically know it or will ask someone who will tell you. In the U.S., it is extremely easy to find out anything. Every single organization or activity is surrounded by accessible useful information in the form of informative websites, instruction manuals, handbooks, broschures, etc. etc. Not so in most other countries!
Typing nations seriously is very difficult or impossible, because national values change.
Spiral Dynamics stipulates that USA is currently ORANGE ; USA will seem ENTj... until shifting to the next level, GREEN ?
For example, even vMemes (PURPLE, BLUE, GREEN, TURQUOISE) are introverted by nature (i.e. stability-oriented) and odd vMemes (BEIGE, RED, ORANGE, YELLOW) are extroverted by nature (i.e. initiative-oriented).
Countries which seem E-types are possibly RED or ORANGE and those which seem I-types are possibly BLUE or GREEN.
http://www.12manage.com/methods_grav..._dynamics.html
No problem :PQuote:
Originally Posted by he died with a felafel
ESFP: modern Greece, Athens, Palestine, South Korea
INTP: Sparta, India,
ESTJ: Persian Empire, Iran, England,
France is more SEI than ESE, because although french people are sociable, they're not very initiating...
Except, Sweden often seems to be typed as LII.Quote:
Originally Posted by he died with a felafel
Norway does not strike me as Delta either, I could say ESFJ.
Are you trying to type nations into quadras or are you merely claiming nations for quadras?Quote:
Originally Posted by he died with a felafel
jaQuote:
Originally Posted by Logos
In as far as nations have types and this topic is not overdone, I would say that England is definately very delta, types like ENFps and ESTjs are looked upon very favorably there...ISTps and INFjs a little bit less, I think they (the English)value being outgoing and "bubbly" very much now contrary to the former reserve they had in the past.
:Si: rules there and most of Europe. England is like :Ne: heaven. :Se: is not valued there at all and it has always sort of confused me how much their people expect their government to provide for them and make their lives more comfortable in terms of welfare, housing etc. There is just far less "up by your own boot straps" thinking there and i get a sense like i am living in the past or something even though aspects of the country is quite modern.
The USA is not ENTj in my opinion though it seems that way. I think :Fe: is very prized and looked upon more favorably in the U.S than nearly anywhere else... hence why people like Oprah Winfrey are so successful in the USA. Oprah Winfrey would not get very far in England.
On the :Ti: / :Te: issue. When I first went to study in England I seriously (yes it is true)wondered how anyone learnt or knew anything there. The information sources you need is very much there but you have to search for it proactively and the search for it never stopped feeling to me like the search for a needle in a haystack ...information is not sort of put upon you neatly packaged like in the U.S.
I think IXFps in particular would find it far easier to be more academically successful in the USA because in the USA you are sort of bombarded with information which is somewhat analysed and the connections between things made clear in a very structured way for you. In England and in their educational institutions in particular, it feels to me like you are given little pieces of information which you must go away and put together yourself and decide what is important and what isn't more independently. They also seem to value on the spot problem solving/thinking more and their people just seem to read far more in general...bookshops everywhere in even the smallest towns like Expat more or less said. The USA is probably most beta/gamma but I think it is probably a more diverse place values/quadra wise than most other countries.
USA is schizophrenic...
Here in Italy the most valued types are definitely ENTx in most situations, the least valued is probably INFp.
As far as overall type:
Norther Italy - ESFp
Center - ISFp
South - ISFj
Right now the US is a psychopathic ENFj.
And being led by an ESTp president who is upsetting the INFj hippies and protesters.Quote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
There have been many threads about Bush where I claimed he is ESTp but majority always came to conclusion that he is either Te or Fe dominant. I'm still not sure. Good arguments were thrown which made me seriously reconsider his type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos
Anyways about Scandinavia...Finland is often considered ISTp. So is Japan btw. I'm not sure about Finland's type. I know that in Finland engineering as a profession is highly valued (way more than e.g. business, arts or pure science). Also I know that if you have to actually read a manual or ask an advice before you can do something you are a failure by definition. American style manuals are totally laughed at. Heavy drinking is also quite usual here. I can see how Si and Te is at least somehow manifested and of course Finnish people are not known for being emotionally expressive or talkative (especially when you first meet them).
And Finland is not technically part of Scandinavia. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
Well yes if you use the minimalist definition based on geography only Sweden and Norway are :) I just kind of naturally think of all the so called Nordic countries (i.e. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Iceland) when I talk about "Scandinavia".Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos
And Denmark technically is a part of Scandinavia.Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
Ok..let's define Scandinavia (or different "Scandinavias") more accurately. It is not such a simple and well defined area. The references are from Wikipedia:Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos
The minimalist definition is based purely on geography and covers Sweden and Norway and a little part of Finland:
"The Scandinavian Peninsula is a geographic region in northern Europe, consisting principally of the mainland territories of Norway and Sweden. The name Scandinavian is derived from Scania, a region at the southernmost extremity of the peninsula. A small section of northwestern Finland is also on the peninsula and on its isthmus."
The definition you are talking about comes into effect when you add some cultural interpretation to geographical interpretation and adds Denmark to the mix:
"Scandinavia is a historical and geographical region centered on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe and includes the three kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden."
This can be again expanded by including Iceland (and Faroe Islands):
"In linguistics and cultural studies, the definition of Scandinavia is expanded to include the areas where Old Norse was spoken and where the North Germanic languages are now dominant. As a linguistic and cultural concept, Scandinavia thus also includes Iceland and the Faroe Islands."
This can be again be expanded by including Finland:
"As a cultural and historical concept, Scandinavia can include Finland as well, often with reference to the nation's long history as a part of Sweden. Although Finland is culturally closely related to the other Scandinavian countries, the Finns form a distinct linguistic and ethnic group, with a Finno-Ugric population that has incorporated features from both Eastern and Western Europe."
I usually don't make a big difference between the term "Nordic Countries" and "Scandinavia" as Scandinavia cannot be that accurately defined but Nordic countries can:
"Although it depends on context which countries are considered Scandinavian, the term the Nordic countries is used unambiguously for Norway, Sweden, Denmark (including the Faroe Islands and Greenland), Finland (including Åland) and Iceland."
Moral of the story, it should not be easy for Scandinavia to just be claimed for Delta without a case being made.
Ireland: ESFj
Isn't Ireland normally typed as IEI? What makes you say ESE?
The only instance of "normally" was Dmitri Lytov. But if I think differently should I just go along with it? Anyway, the Irish people (both those of Ireland and the remnant Irish culture in New England America) definitely have an :Fe: element, but I do not believe that it is Creative-:Fe:. Most of the Irish people who I have met have been big on Creative-:Si: in order to make visitors and friends feel like they are at home. They are also the sort of gossip-hens that is very similar to the characterization of ESEs. The only way I can figure out how Ireland got typed as IEI is the conjured up romantic image of the Emerald Isle and the assumption that they would be conflictors with England (often typed as LSE). I just do not see the :Ni: in Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by snegledmaca
I did notice that when I was in Paris.Quote:
Originally Posted by machintruc
Good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos
Don't talk about your dual like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
Hello again.
Now it looks obvious to me that USA is ENTp:
Role :Se: people trying to look so (not to expose their weaknesses in the quality of outsiders), but such is not in an emergency situation is so - "I know how little there, but this is really just you get on a full programme
Perhaps being bully makes USA feel safer
PoLr :Fi: people on it accumulates information, but not sure of its capacity, these principles should be more in words than in deeds because decisive action on their own 2 - making functions and chaos in the experience of 4 - and functions. Sometimes this person may exercise the functions of a rare stubbornness, conservatism and resentment: it may itself understands that needed improvement, but on their own they are not in a position to provide. To criticize this feature useless - helping here only target boards, including already ready solution.
Learning Socionics is a way to fight against one's hidden agenda. USA tends to classify people into groups in order to be able to know what to expect from them
Hidden agenda :Fe: "To be popular" USA alternates success with failure
Germany is ISTp >>>>>>>>> ISTj
Definitely Fi-valuing with Fe PoLR (if anything)
Hey, and they make the best cars - how much more ISTp can it get?? :p
No. Definitely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
My local pub is probably Delta -> ISTp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
wtf?
If you haven't lived there, you can't know. The ISTj crap is all based onQuote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
stereotypes. The lifestyle there is not as rigid and opinionated as people assume. It's also not as efficient as people assume.
Edited to add: It could be another type, but it's not ISTj. I would not have survived there for 25 years if it were...
Haha, for some reason this makes me think of a pub I used to frequent for free poker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
Maybe you are zombie an trying to trick us to eats our brains?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
******'s conflictor? That's quite an overcompensation. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Kim
Yes, I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
That doesn't make it more ISTp than ISTj.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
Yes, you would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
******: :Fe::Ni:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
Einstein: :Ne::Ti:
Those are old news. :p
Does this mean that I can dualize with a whole country? Or should I move to Canada?Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
:p:lol: Point taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brilliand
And you know this how?Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s/viewpost.gif
If you haven't lived there, you can't know.
Yes, I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
The ISTj crap is all based on stereotypes.
No.
Haha, the ENFp zombie. I love zombies! :D
Hi there. Whay does wtf mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by niffweed17
something like que conyo dicesQuote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Weed? Try for Free!Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Thanks, I knew it. The point is that my reasoning may be wtong, but it is clear and easy to understand. That's all.
conyo, cuyons, la canya de espanya, canyita brava, etc etc
How does one go about typing a nation?
There's been one or two posts, with this in mind recently, and I was trying to think how I would (reasonably) accurately go about it.
Here's some things I was thinking ...
Should we use the nations current, past, possibly future politics? or perhaps the nations stereotypes?
Perhaps the nations national wealth, GDP figures?
It occurs to me there could be pockets of the society that would not relate to a national type ie the very poor part, the very rich part, perhaps city dwellers?
Should we go for messrs average (how do we define that, we'd need to look at for instance, every cross section of the nation?)
What would you guys say would be the best way to go about it?
Cheers.
Stereotypes and imagination are needed I think, especially if you've never been to the place.
But if you stay in a country for a while, and meet some people, you can see which functions people seem to value more on average. You take the two that are valued the most and voila.
People strong in those functions will have an easy time, people who value them will enjoy their stay (c:
I think inadvertently everybody will try to use those functions more, and this might lead to annoying people using their weak functions (Italians' machismo for example). This is why stereotypes are good for typing nations imo.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
No. Sweden is INTj, but that doesn't mean that there are many INTjs in Sweden or that people value the same functions as INTjs do. It is not the mix of types in a country that makes it a certain type, it is the country itself that is a certain type. It is not related to functions, it is related to type traits and type attitudes.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
I wasn't talking about type distribution. I meant people, of any type, living in a country end up valuing (in the non-socionics meaning of the word) those functions more than people of the same type who live in another country would, and this is what creates the country's type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
What else could create it? The ground? The trees? It's gotta be the people...
I know what you meant, and I said no. It can't be that people in a certain country value some specific functions more than people of the same type who live in another country would. You value the functions that you are supposed to value in relation to the type you are. It is not people's valuing of certain functions that create the country's type.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
In a sense, yes. But you confuse the constituents with the whole. A country or a nation consists of parts. Some of its parts are the people who live in it, some other parts are its institutions, etc. But the qualities of the whole are not qualities of the parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
Your body consists of cells, but even though you (as an ISTj) value some functions over other functions, the cells in your body do not value the same functions, becaue they don't have functions preferences. A nation or a country should be viewed as a person in this context. It is the nation we are interested in typing, not its constituents. And the type of the nation is not dependent of the types of the people living in it, at least not directly.
If you knew what I meant you wouldn't have answered with:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
And:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
I am not talking about type distribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
The cell/body example makes no sense. The cells do not create the body, they are only part of the body. The people instead create the country AND are part of the country. For this reason everything (institutions etc as you said...) has been created by people and influence how people act.
Have you really not seen group behaviors related to specific functions when traveling to other countries?
Where I grew up excessive, extra work is seem as something akin to the plague. Basically you should never do more then you are supposed to, do the minimum and maximize your enjoyment in the process of doing it. Life is to be enjoyed and to be delighted in, good food, good drink and good friends is the main theme. Actually, to get an exact feel for this, here is a parody of the stereotype, ten commandment of this lifestyle.
1. A man is born tired and lives to rest
2. Love thy bed like you would yourself
3. Rest during the day so that you can sleep at night
4. Don't work! Work kills!
5. When you see somebody resting, help them
6. Never do today what you can put off till tomorrow
7. Work to below your minimum, and that which you have to do try to dump on somebody else
8. There is salvation in the shade! Resting never killed anybody
9. Work brings illness. Do not die young!
10. When you get to urge to get up and go, sit down, wait, it will pass
Do you think that the relative distribution of the types explain the type differences between nations/countries? There are relatively more introverts in Sweden compared to for example the US, so it might have something to do with it. But how do you explain the indisputable fact that there are many more ISTjs than INTjs in Sweden, and yet Sweden as a country is INTj?Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
That is not an appropriate response. Now, please answer my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
I thought you were joking with that sry...Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaedrusDo you think that the relative distribution of the types explain the type differences between nations/countries?Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
Ok, I'll try with an example.
Italy (ESFp) is composed of 1 INTj, 1 ISTj and 1 ESFp
Sweden (INTj) is composed of 1 INTj, 1 ISTj and 1 ESFp
In Italy, the ESFp will have a grand time: his functions are valued and even the INTj tries to go along with the SeFi atmosphere, because his normal behavior is frowned at by society.
In Sweden the opposite happens.
Compared to the Swedish ISTj, the Italian ISTj will naturally use Se more often, especially in the company of other Italians.
You can easily notice this if you meet a group of Italians in a foreign country... they will be the obnoxious Se ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
*reminder to self: must get to italy as soon as possible.
What type do you think France is? Fe with Si seem to be valued at least in pop culture. I see Fe used a lot even by people who should NOT be using it. Typing French people for me can be a little hard, since I see so much Fe going on.
What country has Delta values?
I can't think of any. . .
Why would Italians in general value the same functions as the ESFp does, if they are not ESFps themselves and not even members of the same quadra? Why would Swedes in general value the same functions as INTjs do? You haven't provided an explanation for that curious phenomenon. It doesn't make sense, because it contradicts Socionics theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
I've heard Norway pointed out before, as well as Austrailia. I also remember someone proposing ISTp for Japan, but it's all very hard to say. I have trouble typing one person at a time, much less countries!Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy B
Maybe he means a relatively higher competency in these functions across the general population due to having to use them slightly more in daily life or, even rejecting those functions, at least their being more pervasive and thereby open to observation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
Yes, I agree with ESFj for France, but I've only been to Paris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy B
England is usually referred to as Delta, it sounds about right.
Europe in general too, but I can't really see it.
I have not provided an explanation because I don't have one. It's obviously something that evolves well beyond a lifetime, I can only guess it might have to do with historical/geographical situations forcing the use and acceptance of certain functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
It does not contradict socionics theory: the Italian INTj is still an INTj, it will only be influenced by peer pressure and education to use his weak unvalued functions more. On average, and very little on a personal level, but when taking groups into account it's noticeable.
Finnish girls believe Swedish guys are gays
It's because of the long hair.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
...long hair?
who? where? why?
barcelona & catalunya = ISTp, yeah?
Barcelona is filled with delta ST's who burn cars every time there is a demonstration against Spain, the world bank, G7+Russia, global warming, women with moustaches or anything worse
Most of the police officers are beta ST's, therefore we find a quadra-conflict in there
Delta NF's mastermind riots
I know only that UK is ESTJ.
I think from what I remember from a conversation... USA is ENTP, Germany is ISTJ . Is this right? What are other countries´ types such as France, Spain, Russia, Italy and any other?
Spain seems ESTp to me.
I remember the U.S. being typed ENTj... and France being typed ESFj. Russia was ESTp...
This topic has come up on this forum before.
I remember
Germany - LSI
United States - ILE
France - SEI
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
I'm sure everyone's already seen this, but for what it's worth, here's something from Rick's ethnosocionics page:
Quote:
:Ne: - Israel, ancient classical Greece? Armenia?
:Se: - China? Italy, much of Central Asia and Caucasus region
:Te: - U.S., England, English-speaking Canada, Australia, New Zealand
:Fe: - many Catholic countries, including much of Latin America
:Ni: - Russia, India
:Si: - Japan, Finland, much of sub-Saharan Africa?
:Ti: - Germany
:Fi: - Ukraine, Slovakia?, Estonia?
Quote:
Concept of Integral types with groups, organizations, and nations
* certain aspects of reality are freely discussed in all their complexity, while others are avoided or carefully restricted
* one information element becomes the dominant "common language" of the group; convincing arguments are phrased in this language and group members revert to this language when making contact with new group members or people they don't know within the group
* the group takes on behavioral patterns typical of a certain socionic type with its inherent strengths and weaknesses
I hope current Greece isn't strongly :Ne: over other aspects. I really wanted to visit and not get annoyed by the people there, seems like such a nice place in its seasonal ripening.
I should add, from personal experience, I know of a lot of Alpha-oriented Mexicans. Seems like various manifestations of these quadra values are highly ingrained into their language and culture.
"For example, most of Europe is made up of rational integral types (logic or ethics as the leading function), while most of Asia is irrational (intuition or sensing). Within European civilization, countries where protestantism dominates generally have logical integral types, while Catholic cultures are almost always ethical. Extraverted logic is the common language of all English-speaking countries, which currently dominate the spheres of science and technology. Russia, while belonging to greater European rational culture, has an irrational mentality that is reflected in its Asian leanings and its particular breed of creativity within the western world. The Asian religions of Hinduism and Buddhism, unfathomable to the Western mind, are dominant in India and China, where irrationality flourishes."
this seems totally accurate.
The UK is not really Si valuing, stereotypically that is. I'd say LIE is more fitting; they have rather conflicting values with France which explains a lot history wise I suppose...
Canada - Delta
Although, Canada's current prime minister/government is not Delta.
Japan = ESTj
I don´t know, my friend says UK is ESTj too.
Canada could be ESTj also, too orderly.
I know Enneagram types for countries, but not Socionics types.
you´re right Brilliand, USA = ENTj, France= ESFj, Russia= ESTp, Germany ISTj makes sense. Japan is said to be ESTj but I don´t think so.
but no way UK is also ENTj , Marie.
ENTj wants money, is a culture which values personal enterprise, success and money above all. I don´t see the UK like that at all.
Mediterranean cultures will look more :Fe: than Anglo-Saxons, but I suppose you already know, given that you live in Cali. I don't think we (read: mediterranean cultures) are particularly more :Ne: , even though being clever is definitely prized over hard-work.Quote:
Originally Posted by polikujm
Anyway, hard for me to given an integral type for Italy. Averaging out all the regions, I'd guess ESFp could be a good approximation.
Yah, it's kind of Ne/Si at leastQuote:
Originally Posted by The Greeter
The country that tried to dominate the world, srsly? (England at least)Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
Stereotypes
USA Ne-ENTp
Russia Ti-ENTp
Canada Ne-INTj
Japan Te-ESTj
China Se-ISTj
Germany Ti-ISTj
Spain Se-ESFp
France Si-ESFj
England Te-INTp
Ireland Fe-ISFp
Belgium Si-ISFp
Holland Ni-ENTj
Italy Se-ESTp
Turkey Ti-ESTp
Australia Te-ISTp
Brazil Se-ESFp
Argentina Fi-ESFp
Finland Ti-ENTp
Sweden Fi-ISFj
Norway Si-ISTp
Denmark Te-ENTj
Confederate States of America Se-ISTj
Roman Empire Ti-ESTp
Spanish Empire Se-ESFp
USSR Se-ISTj
European Union Te-ENTj
FIFA
UEFA
NBA
MOTO GP
NHL
.....
Rick called holland a delta country. Also dutch guy Consentingadult called holland delta.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
In my opinion they are right.
England has rivalry with France because of the Normans, historically speaking. Nothing to do with type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie84
of course I am ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno
The Netherlands, with their calvinist approach to things, is delta indeed. More in particular, one could say SLI (as in 'going Dutch'), and this to some extent still applies to th rural parts of out country. Of course, in cities like Amsterdam, IEE attitudes rule. Gay marriage, Red Light District, Weed and hasish rich in THC at every street corner, we've got it all! And lets not forget the ridiculous number of bicycles (=Si). IEE women in Volendam costume are so sexy!
http://www.stzk.nl/stzk/images/Verhu...%20(Small).jpg
PS. Brabant, the region where Jarno is from (I myself am from Holland proper) is more alpha, I believe more SEI.
I really should be moving to Canada.
Mexico is SEI, as I recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by polikujm
Belgium is also ISFp.
Europe on the whole is Delta. I agree that Netherlands is Delta, although probably extrovert > introvert on account of how we rely a lot on foreign relations for our success in the world. ENFp is a good bet for reasons also mentioned by CA.
I think Croatia might be ISFj. Also, bear in mind; Tuđman (the father of Croatia) ISFj-Se, Sanader (ex-prime-minister) ENTj-Te, Kosor (new prime-minister) ISFj-Se. The new president, Josipović is INTx to the max. Ex-president Mesić was some kind of an extraverted sensor.
EDIT 10/25/2010: Mesić is probably an ESFp. Could buy ESTj-Te for Sanader.
Are we talking about what people in the country value, how they actually act, or what? I mean while Rick may call English-Canada overwhelmingly Te, the nationalist sentiments promoted here have never been on anything industrious. If history shows anything, Canada has consistently failed in matters of practicality, manufacturing and industry. Canadian economic historians are constantly examining this fact and wondering what the fuck happened considering our neighbours to the south were ultimately much more successful.
I would say that if you look at Canadian nationalism and what we've generally accomplished, this is more of an Si country than a Te country. You might be able to call us ESTj, but I don't think that would really be true. Canada promotes itself as (and Canadian identity is centered around) the ideas of being welcoming, peaceable, generous, equal, fair etc. Whether there's a rhetoric-reality gap there, I can't argue with certainty. But if you look at what Canadians seem to put value behind, I would say those qualities I mentioned are the most frequent priorities. I think most Canadians would publicly sacrifice industry and practicality for the above values.
EDIT: Also, this country was brought together by a man with a Champagne Train. Sir John A (that drunken eloquent bastard) made Confederation happen by bribing his way with champagne parties. What a badass :)
Sweden: LII
Canada: EII
USA: LIE
Turkey: SLE (best example of an SLE country)
Russia: IEI
Arab States: EIE
Italy: SEE
Japan: LSE (modern Japan)
China: LSI ?
IMO
Actually, you may be right. EII could be a really good call for Canada.