LSI-EIE Duality Discussion and Examples (ISTj and ENFj)

I actually dont have much experience with LSIs but I do have one close relationship with one which is my girlfriend.

She doesnt behave like a stereotypical LSI because shes a rebellious teenagerand gets into all sorts of trouble which I have to warn her about. And I find she listens to my warnings just fine. Shes aggressive and took the intitiative on me and didnt hesitate to tell me she found me attractive physically(though it was love at first sight because I felt the same way about her). She needs lots of love and doesnt hesitate to say "i love you" as much as possible and I love telling her the same thing back. Its fun; I feel I can be myself that way and let my feelings shine and not have to hide them for fear of rejection. We usually get along really well except for the week before she went into rehab when we started having tension between us, I can only guess because of her use of birth control. But I love her still. Shes "desired" by alot of people in a way alot like ESTps are and finds it almost natural to be desired, which is the opposite of me( i never feel desired except by a few people including her).


Another LSI, one I know less well however is my uncle who is the logical subtype (unlike my gf). Hes very patient and never gets angry when explaining things instead hell repeat them and go over them until you understand. He rarely voices his opinion but often asks others about theirs. Hes very into controlling the financial lives of people and wants to be the one in charge of the financial order of the family after my grandfather died. Even before my grandpa died he was getting into his business asking endless questions about money and finance what my ISFj granmpa was gonna do with these responsibilities etc. We get along pretty well though I dont see much of him unfortunatly because of family disputes etc.

Removed at User Request

Augh yeh, but y'know i do have a few (alot) questions that i'm no too sure of.

1. What subtype am i, i think i'm an Fe, and i'm not too creative either...cept i have done art before. I think she's a Ti subtype along with my mom, but i want to be sure*

2. If nature plays a trick on us, and hardly anyone notices their duals. How come there's a high percentage of dual relationships? (30% or 45%)
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-duality.html
Here it says :confused:

3. I wanna know how LSI's will react in some situations. Need to know more about LSI and how to "wow" them. Overall i do "know" how to love someone.

4. I'm not sure about this but i hear some INTJ's can't stand ESFJ's...in theory they would go hand in hand. But ionno la, they're from INTJ forum.

Other questions. Can someone with good knowledge of MBTi and Socionics Pm me? or even add me on msn :D? It's just my name right now but with @hotmail.com.

O ya just so you all know, we're both asians..both short ppl..both christians :D. Both like korean culture and sorta abandoned our chinese culture XD. If you want more info on her of our progress i'll be willing to share ;)

ReiLingBaz, you're in a good position, it seems--with all of those beta rationals around :) That's an ideal support system for a EIE-LSI relationship. Good luck!!

I'll try to answer the questions you posed in the message above your last.

1. EIE Subtypes: EIEs are famous for 'sinking in doubts.' If you're good at disguising those doubts with a smile, I'd say you're more likely to be Fe-EIE... If you're more likely to use them to fuel sarcasm, Ni-EIE. Just a personal observation. Fe-ENFj is the most animate Sociotype.

2. I wouldn't be surprised if 40% or more of couples were dual couples... From what I've noticed, people tend to be drawn into friendships w/ people in their own quadra (whether at school or work, or wherever.) It seems that nature does play a trick--duals, especially at first, are hard to notice as anything special... But as you hang out more and more with your dual, the compatability becomes obvious... It's just comfortable.

3. Wowing LSIs? They react positively to positive emotion--however, they can smell phoniness a mile a way(so to say.) Positive emotion can come from a movie or dancing, or just making a stupid face... They're emotional adrenaline junkies (esp positive emotions.)

4. I doubt those people understand socionics.

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Originally Posted by Expat

A few points --

First, this "to be wealthy" thing is an über-oversimplification by Sergei Ganin of what it means for a type to have :Se: as 6th function or hidden agenda. A desire to be wealthy is one of its manifestations; it's not the only one, and not necessarily even the main one.

Second, the hidden agenda is not "nourished", in the way you imply, by the duals - and certainly not if you take those minimalist descriptions.

Third, certainly an ENFj is not, typically, waiting for someone else to give them money. ENFjs are not beggars - not all of them, anyway :P

Finally, the way it does work is this -- a typical ENFj-ISTj dual pair will put some emphasis on longer-term accumulation of wealth over shorter-term enjoyment of it. In doing that together, the ENFj provides the ISTj with :Fe: stimuli and a :Ni: reassurance of the way things are going. The ISTj provides the ENFj with a :Ti: sense of logical consistency and certainty of understanding, and a :Se: push to actually get things going.

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this is true in my experience

i once dated an LSE guy and while we started off okay, mostly because of intense physical attraction, he annoyed me more and more as we got closer. one thing that really bugged me was that he always wanted to spend money on things to enjoy RIGHT NOW because they were COOL TO HAVE, for example a big screen tv with great picture, etc etc. i was like, wtf we dont need that, you should save your money for something ACTUALLY worthwhile down the line instead of spending it now on trivialities that will be obsolete soon anyway and that only give pleasure in the now. i tried time and time again to explain to him that NOW hardly exists, it is always slipping away and its better to build for the FUTURE, to have something really GREAT there instead of something meaningless here. also he spent lots of money on food and cooked tasty but time-consuming and expensive meals. WTF? do something useful with your time!

looking forward to finding an LSI who is on the same page as me :love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJzHw1R8gpk

The female is what type?
The male is what type?

the female is ENFJ and the male is ISTJ

sweet couple.

Nope. I don't agree.

She's a sensory type and he's an intuitive.

Woman reminds me of a cat somewhat. Red cat.

Looks like my brother and his finance (ISTj-ENFj couple) :)

Cute! :love::D:love:

Lol. Alchohol.

There is an LSI man I've recently met. I hated him at first, and still am not sure I don't, but he seemed keen on me from the day we met. We have talked a bit, flirted a bit, a lot of teasing going on. And yesterday we were both at a party where he spent quite a lot of time flirting with other women while covertly (so he thought?) glancing in my direction. To see if I cared? What I was doing? I don't know.

I, meanwhile, am an attractive and independent woman, and I am not going to chase after some man. The thing about it is, I sometimes wonder if that is what he's after. He is almost playing the victim, playing games and trying to elicit jealousy. For what? For me to chase him? I'm not about to do that, for him or anyone as I will be the chased, not the chaser, ever. From a socionics perspective, can someone tell me what this is about? Is this one of the tests LSIs are so famous for?

I'm not so much interested in this LSI in particular, as I think he's a bit of a jerk in general, but this is all very interesting to me. I don't know if I've known an LSI man before now.

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Originally Posted by ClaudiaM

There is an LSI man I've recently met. I hated him at first, and still am not sure I don't, but he seemed keen on me from the day we met. We have talked a bit, flirted a bit, a lot of teasing going on. And yesterday we were both at a party where he spent quite a lot of time flirting with other women while covertly (so he thought?) glancing in my direction. To see if I cared? What I was doing? I don't know.

I, meanwhile, am an attractive and independent woman, and I am not going to chase after some man. The thing about it is, I sometimes wonder if that is what he's after. He is almost playing the victim, playing games and trying to elicit jealousy. For what? For me to chase him? I'm not about to do that, for him or anyone as I will be the chased, not the chaser, ever. From a socionics perspective, can someone tell me what this is about? Is this one of the tests LSIs are so famous for?

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In the past, a lot of LSI (women and men) have told me this. They like to be in this pool of feeling of attaining someone, they also have told me that they will try very hard to possess someone. and if they feel like they have gotten you. they simply do not feel like it's a challenge anymore, and they want to attain other things because they have already gotten you. Now this EIE/LSI duality, in my opinion, can manifest to a cat and mouse game.

I believe if you oriented yourself with these romances, and chances are if you are unhealthy, you can get suck in to a jealousy theme. it has a lot to do with that. enneagram helps here, and this influences from LSI to LSI.

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Originally Posted by 07490

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Originally Posted by ClaudiaM

There is an LSI man I've recently met. I hated him at first, and still am not sure I don't, but he seemed keen on me from the day we met. We have talked a bit, flirted a bit, a lot of teasing going on. And yesterday we were both at a party where he spent quite a lot of time flirting with other women while covertly (so he thought?) glancing in my direction. To see if I cared? What I was doing? I don't know.

I, meanwhile, am an attractive and independent woman, and I am not going to chase after some man. The thing about it is, I sometimes wonder if that is what he's after. He is almost playing the victim, playing games and trying to elicit jealousy. For what? For me to chase him? I'm not about to do that, for him or anyone as I will be the chased, not the chaser, ever. From a socionics perspective, can someone tell me what this is about? Is this one of the tests LSIs are so famous for?

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In the past, a lot of LSI (women and men) have told me this. They like to be in this pool of feeling of attaining someone, they also have told me that they will try very hard to possess someone. and if they feel like they have gotten you. they simply do not feel like it's a challenge anymore, and they want to attain other things because they have already gotten you. Now this EIE/LSI duality, in my opinion, can manifest to a cat and mouse game.

I believe if you oriented yourself with these romances, and chances are if you are unhealthy, you can get suck in to a jealousy theme. it has a lot to do with that. enneagram helps here, and this influences from LSI to LSI.

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Yes! This is exactly what my instinct was. I feel I am being tested. Like, will I break? Well, no I won't. And lol @ you if you think otherwise. It was kind of funny, observing him. He was *so obviously* trying to make me jealous. I could spot it a mile away, and any doubts I had of this were quelled by his constant checking of where I was and what I was doing and who I was talking to. So I just followed my instincts and made it outwardly apparent that I was having a wonderful time with the people I was talking with. Almost like, "don't you wish you could be the man I'm talking to, LSI?"

This will probably go one of two ways. Either we will both keep playing like this, him trying to make me jealous and me ignoring him, or he will approach me like an actual man and we will see what happens from there. Probably, as I think he is a bit of a child still, it will be the former that transpires. But I will enjoy seeing how this plays out. Beta duality in action. lol

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Originally Posted by 07490

In the past, a lot of LSI (women and men) have told me this. They like to be in this pool of feeling of attaining someone, they also have told me that they will try very hard to possess someone. and if they feel like they have gotten you. they simply do not feel like it's a challenge anymore, and they want to attain other things because they have already gotten you. Now this EIE/LSI duality, in my opinion, can manifest to a cat and mouse game.

I believe if you oriented yourself with these romances, and chances are if you are unhealthy, you can get suck in to a jealousy theme. it has a lot to do with that. enneagram helps here, and this influences from LSI to LSI.

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I'm going to have to agree with this.

I know I tackle pursuing people like a game almost. It needs to be exciting and challenging or it's not worth it.

It really is like trying to win a prize, and then once you've got it... it's gotta be a really great one that keeps you interested otherwise you're going to get bored pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by Hemoglobin

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Originally Posted by 07490

In the past, a lot of LSI (women and men) have told me this. They like to be in this pool of feeling of attaining someone, they also have told me that they will try very hard to possess someone. and if they feel like they have gotten you. they simply do not feel like it's a challenge anymore, and they want to attain other things because they have already gotten you. Now this EIE/LSI duality, in my opinion, can manifest to a cat and mouse game.

I believe if you oriented yourself with these romances, and chances are if you are unhealthy, you can get suck in to a jealousy theme. it has a lot to do with that. enneagram helps here, and this influences from LSI to LSI.

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I'm going to have to agree with this.

I know I tackle pursuing people like a game almost. It needs to be exciting and challenging or it's not worth it.

It really is like trying to win a prize, and then once you've got it... it's gotta be a really great one that keeps you interested otherwise you're going to get bored pretty quickly.

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Not that EIE's like this very much, but if it had to be out of the 16 types, EIE would be the one that sense this well and quick to alter their mindset; i think they usually distances themselves with the person; Enneagram 3 can do this, or else they would be hurt quick if they were a clingy 4 who disintergrate, or a fearful 6, or the very emotional 2's...

They are possibly trying to get more Fe to have an idea of your feelings. Having recently met a LSI he started off trying to fake interest in other women to see if I was disappointed etc. As an LSI myself I could see through all this and was like "whatever" and he stormed off haha. He doesn't do it anymore and is pretty cool, we both make each other #1 now.
Yeh I mean we can lose interest once the chase is over but I would be careful playing with a LSI...we can be a bit contradictory like that, especially the women, JMO.

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Originally Posted by Hemoglobin

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Originally Posted by 07490

In the past, a lot of LSI (women and men) have told me this. They like to be in this pool of feeling of attaining someone, they also have told me that they will try very hard to possess someone. and if they feel like they have gotten you. they simply do not feel like it's a challenge anymore, and they want to attain other things because they have already gotten you. Now this EIE/LSI duality, in my opinion, can manifest to a cat and mouse game.

I believe if you oriented yourself with these romances, and chances are if you are unhealthy, you can get suck in to a jealousy theme. it has a lot to do with that. enneagram helps here, and this influences from LSI to LSI.

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I'm going to have to agree with this.
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I know I tackle pursuing people like a game almost. It needs to be exciting and challenging or it's not worth it.

It really is like trying to win a prize, and then once you've got it... it's gotta be a really great one that keeps you interested otherwise you're going to get bored pretty quickly.

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The funny thing is that EIEs tend to kind of frown upon these things; they prefer a more direct approach. I think it's the balance of LSI's defaulting to conventional "game" tactics vs. EIE's more typically direct and blunt approach to expressing interest that forces both of them to meet in the middle. EIEs don't really play games in this sense; they tend to let people know what they think of them by default, either by their demeanor, words, or actions (unless they have ulterior motives); LSIs are much more guarded in this sense, presenting their persona first and slowly opening up to match the EIE's vulnerability. EIEs have their guards up at first too, but it's usually an emotional guardedness rather than an expressive one. EIEs express share their feelings very easily, but their deeper emotions are often kept completely under wraps until they feel they can trust people completely.

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Originally Posted by Gilly

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Originally Posted by Hemoglobin

I'm going to have to agree with this.
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I know I tackle pursuing people like a game almost. It needs to be exciting and challenging or it's not worth it.

It really is like trying to win a prize, and then once you've got it... it's gotta be a really great one that keeps you interested otherwise you're going to get bored pretty quickly.

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The funny thing is that EIEs tend to kind of frown upon these things; they prefer a more direct approach. I think it's the balance of LSI's defaulting to conventional "game" tactics vs. EIE's more typically direct and blunt approach to expressing interest that forces both of them to meet in the middle. EIEs don't really play games in this sense; they tend to let people know what they think of them by default, either by their demeanor, words, or actions (unless they have ulterior motives); LSIs are much more guarded in this sense, presenting their persona first and slowly opening up to match the EIE's vulnerability. EIEs have their guards up at first too, but it's usually an emotional guardedness rather than an expressive one. EIEs express share their feelings very easily, but their deeper emotions are often kept completely under wraps until they feel they can trust people completely.

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Yes to all of this. Well said, Gilly.

It does piss me off. He clearly likes me, but is not man enough to act on it (to be fair, he tried to come up to me once, but just then someone else swooped in, and LSI gave up and stalked off. That was when Operation Make Claudia Jealous kicked into high gear.)

I keep going back and forth between wanting to just ignore him altogether, or wanting to call him on it (which in reality I will not do unless he provokes me, lol, in which case I would tell him off full-stop). What a fucking child. He's like a sixth-grader.

It's so weird, because by the general nature of the functions you'd think that LSIs and EIEs would have swapped roles from the reality: LSIs are generally very straightforward and direct, while EIEs can be manipulative and indirect. But when my girlfriend an I, both EIEs, started dating, we definitely courted each other and sort of went through the motions, just to avoid awkwardness, but it was just really obvious to both of us even before we had strong feelings for each other that the other was interested and that things would probably work well, we are just so similar in how we think and express ourselves that it's almost easy to take for granted how well we communicate. It wasn't like we had to hit on each other really hard, or drop hints, or anything; it was just completely mutually obvious. We read each other perfectly every time. It's not the same kind of interesting feeling of continual mutual revelations and "clicking" as I have with IEIs, where we kind of feed off of each other and can continually elaborate on ideas, etc etc, but just a perfect ease of communication to the point that we don't even have to think about it. We can speak in partial words and incomplete sentences and don't even miss a beat :D

But yeah, back to the point, EIEs are pretty obvious about expressing interest. Unless we're talking about "just sex" kind of thing; then we can be some covert mother fuckers :lol: But when it comes to expressing real interest, you will be able to tell if an EIE is interested in you; we just make it obvious in the way we talk, look at you, our energy...everything.

Ugggggh, this is always so weird.

When it's someone I'm not interested in romantically, I can be as charming as you please and I have zero problem starting conversations, sending messages online, and so on. But then when there is romantic interest I get all flustered and paranoid of rejection, and it all goes to hell. I suppose being a socionics Victim adds to it?

How does this typically go with LSI-EIE duality? Is the onus on me, as the extrovert and Fe person, to initiate contact? Because that is what I want to do, but honestly the last time I was open that way it blew up in my face (whereas my last boyfriend was SLE so I got used to not initiating anything because it wasn't necessary). How do LSIs react to having an EIE initiate conversation or "draw them out"? Does it make things too easy and then boring?

I mean, I'm trying to just do what feels right, but I change my mind one second to the next about what that is. Boo. :?:(:8*

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Originally Posted by ClaudiaM

Ugggggh, this is always so weird.

When it's someone I'm not interested in romantically, I can be as charming as you please and I have zero problem starting conversations, sending messages online, and so on. But then when there is romantic interest I get all flustered and paranoid of rejection, and it all goes to hell. I suppose being a socionics Victim adds to it?

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Haha this has been my experience with EIEs - its like they're super charming around people they're neutral with, but then around people they actually have an interest in, they clamp up and freak out. They don't know what to do. Total 180 lol. I knew this EIE guy that had this ridiculous crush on this girl all year long. When we'd hang out with a group of people, he would talk/flirt with everyone except the girl he liked. So freaking obvious, hahaha. :p

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How does this typically go with LSI-EIE duality? Is the onus on me, as the extrovert and Fe person, to initiate contact? Because that is what I want to do, but honestly the last time I was open that way it blew up in my face (whereas my last boyfriend was SLE so I got used to not initiating anything because it wasn't necessary). How do LSIs react to having an EIE initiate conversation or "draw them out"? Does it make things too easy and then boring?

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LSIs love it when you initiate contact! Forget about the past, just be yourself! Go with what feels natural to yourself- Keep nudging at him, poking fun of him, inviting him out to things, etc., and if he's into you + truly Fe dual-seeking, he'll respond positively to this. Don't be discouraged by his aloofness. LSIs have rules for everything, including social and romantic relationships. ISTjs want to do things the right way as propriety is huge for us. He's probably distancing himself to not seem out-of-control, and/or perhaps he's trying to gauge your interest. Just keep at it :)

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I mean, I'm trying to just do what feels right, but I change my mind one second to the next about what that is. Boo. :?:(:8*

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You hopelessly romantic EIEs, tsk tsk :8* :lol:

This particular LSI, it turns out, is a bit fucked up.

He asked me out Friday and then over drinks revealed that he is a misogynist and general douche. At least he was honest about who he is, but what a shame. Sucks to meet a (physically) attractive dual and then discover he's, well, damaged goods.

Any advice on where *quality* LSIs might be? At least I have a better sense of the interaction pattern now :?

If EIEs really are as direct as all the ones in this thread claim, then you'll have no problem with a normal healthy LSI. Games are for cowards, so if you want a guy with some balls, a "quality" LSI, find one who doesn't hide behind deceit and misdirection. That's true for any type, not just LSIs, and for either gender.

"Testing" means that LSIs often have no idea how someone feels about them, and they try to find out. Open, honest, direct response/appreciation tells them this, and the test is over. Be ambiguous, dishonest, or wishy-washy, and the tests will continue until they decide the person is just too flakey or uninterested and not worth the trouble, or they get a response that tells them it's worth continuing.

For me, I only chase after those who don't wish to be caught when I don't want to catch anyone at all. IOW, if I can occupy myself with an unavailable guy, I can pretend to myself that I'm actually interested in a relationship without having to worry about being in one. It's not about wanting a challenge. He's only interesting as long as he's out of reach, not because that makes it more fun, but because that's where I want him to be. Out of reach. Actions speak louder than words, and if I truly wanted to be with someone my actions would reflect that. It's lying to myself if I claim otherwise.

Anyway, LSIs aren't hard to find, I doubt you'll have to look very hard.

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Originally Posted by squark

If EIEs really are as direct as all the ones in this thread claim, then you'll have no problem with a normal healthy LSI. Games are for cowards, so if you want a guy with some balls, a "quality" LSI, find one who doesn't hide behind deceit and misdirection. That's true for any type, not just LSIs, and for either gender.

"Testing" means that LSIs often have no idea how someone feels about them, and they try to find out. Open, honest, direct response/appreciation tells them this, and the test is over. Be ambiguous, dishonest, or wishy-washy, and the tests will continue until they decide the person is just too flakey or uninterested and not worth the trouble, or they get a response that tells them it's worth continuing.

For me, I only chase after those who don't wish to be caught when I don't want to catch anyone at all. IOW, if I can occupy myself with an unavailable guy, I can pretend to myself that I'm actually interested in a relationship without having to worry about being in one. It's not about wanting a challenge. He's only interesting as long as he's out of reach, not because that makes it more fun, but because that's where I want him to be. Out of reach. Actions speak louder than words, and if I truly wanted to be with someone my actions would reflect that. It's lying to myself if I claim otherwise.

Anyway, LSIs aren't hard to find, I doubt you'll have to look very hard.

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Thanks, Squark :love:

And yeah, I am pretty direct when I know I like someone. Not with words, but with how I act around them and how I treat them

Or at least, I think I am pretty direct. I "create" opportunities to be around him or for him to make a move toward me if he is so inclined. Or another example, at a guy I like, I will flash a huge smile upon randomly passing in a hallway. At a guy I have no interest in, I will do no such thing.

Anyway, your post here is great. I'm sorry if I sound like a bitch in this thread. Stressed with life + wondering about could-it-bes = ugh :8*

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Originally Posted by ClaudiaM

Thanks, Squark :love:

And yeah, I am pretty direct when I know I like someone. Not with words, but with how I act around them and how I treat them

Or at least, I think I am pretty direct. I "create" opportunities to be around him or for him to make a move toward me if he is so inclined. Or another example, at a guy I like, I will flash a huge smile upon randomly passing in a hallway. At a guy I have no interest in, I will do no such thing.

Anyway, your post here is great. I'm sorry if I sound like a bitch in this thread. Stressed with life + wondering about could-it-bes = ugh :8*

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I don't think you sounded like a bitch at all. And yes, you sound like you're being direct, you're not hiding your interest or sending mixed signals. :love:

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Originally Posted by lastdance

Nobody knows a relation where is male ENFj, and female ISTj :) ?

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?

Jadae and Squark. Wait they aren't together yet? Hk, get them a bed.

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Originally Posted by Reuben

Jadae and Squark. Wait they aren't together yet? Hk, get them a bed.

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I like having my king-sized bed to myself for now. Thanks. though.

This video is cut-up too abruptly but this is an example of duality relations between an LSI-Ti and EIE-Fe. They are not quite a match by enneagram, however - he's 3w2 and she is 2w3.

@10:00 "she was telling me the other night about this white energy, or shakiras, or whatever they are called. Jacklyn, I think she's a very kind-hearted girl and I'm glad she's my teammate."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiewqICWe5w

An example of an EIE female asking an LSI male for a little structure now, dammit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HWX2BnI0Gw