ENFj and ISTj duality seems pretty funny to me though I can see myself with and ISTj...does anyone what qualities about ENFj's attracts ISTj's?
++added: see also Duality observations
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ENFj and ISTj duality seems pretty funny to me though I can see myself with and ISTj...does anyone what qualities about ENFj's attracts ISTj's?
++added: see also Duality observations
ISTjs value Fe>Fi and need active Fe from others --
That is to say: they crave an expressive emotional environment but aren't sure how to create it themselves; so they prefer precisely the ENFj "drama queens" who will create clear emotional environments. Also, the ISTj wants to project some sort of image onto other people and is unsure of how to do that, the ENFj takes care of that, too.
The ISTj, on his/her own, may tend to get stuck into emotional stagnation ie some sort of depression, but not happy with that -- the ENFj gets the ISTj "moving" emotionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
That's weird...it seems ENFj's do that for me too...
If you are Fe IP, you also need clear (and preferably positive) Fe from others.
My parents are semiduals: INTj and ENFj.
I can easily see how this would work, because my mom is friendly but rather serious, like lacking (Ne) sense of humor. She complains a lot about my dad's sense of humor.
ISTj are quite serious...
Also, she complains about my dad "staying at home to rest". I guess she would like my father to keep working all the day.
ISTj work a lot...
My parents are also semiduals: ISTj(father) and ESFj(mother)Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemex
My mom is super friendly and sociable (Fe). She often complains my dad is too serious, too logical.
Also she complains that my dad "works too much" and would like him to take more days off.
lol it's funny how our reports are so similar yet different. I can totally see how ENFj/ISTj duality could work.
lol. This is a good thread. Keep posting. I need lots and lots of more information.
People often complain how they can't stand ISTjs who just won't change their minds about things! I'm the other way around. I keep complaining that people change their minds all the time. I don't understand why people around me won't just pick one opinion and stick with it. Everyone keeps giving me multiple-option answers. When I need to know something, I'll usually end up interrogating the other person, specifying the question to end up with only one solid answer. The ISTj instructor I had didn't do it. :) hehe... in stead, he kept giving me the exact same answer no matter what I asked. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
My ENFj friend is just like this too, I can tell when I give her non-concrete answers, that she just wants me to assert something to her...but the thing is....she turns my concrete answers around on me so it's pretty much a defensive technique for me, lol
lol, yeah, I often do that too. :) The other person game me an answer, now I'm trying to see if she really meant it. I'll rephrase it with errors, so I can see if she'll correct me and say it the same way she did before. Also I might rephrase it correctly and give a scenario that's bad in some way to see if she'll change her mind about the answer. And then I look at the body language. It's very easy to find out when a person really knew what they're talking about or when they were just bluffing. :) hehe... using Fe to make sure my Ti information is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clover
They are a match made in heaven. I can visualize them climbing up the corporate ladder together and enjoying the fruits of their labour. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by onetreehilluver
:o Thats it.OMG. I had a gf who was ENFJ and she used to drive me mad with stuff like that. As ENFP I assume that if someone is following my conversation and adding to it, they get the drift of what Im saying. She would later reinterpet everything I said and come up with some other meaning so she could get what she wanted and then act like thats what I meant. We would end up with the craziest arguments, like I was trying to untie all these knots that she created. I finally had to call it quits. We are much better as friends than lovers. On some level I hoped she was doing that unconsciously and not on purpose. Now you got me thinking.... :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
As far as ISTJ/ENFJ I think I could see how this could work out but in RL Ive only seen a few examples. Ive had ENFJ friends and even ISTJ friends and even when they were around each other they didnt seem to get along very well. Infact my ENFJ roommate would criticize the ISTJ as being too robot like and not creative or interesting. I ended up defending him :lol: Thats weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
Thing is...I think I am better at reading body language and all that stuff, which makes me good at fooling people like ENFj's who are good at it, but go about it differently. So its pointless, and I just confuse her. :lol: Makes it fun though :lol:
Do you think that although duality is generally a balanced relationship, the ENFJ in this manifestation of it, tends to dominate the ISTJ. i.e. the ISTJ needs to be bossed around to fulfill his/her need to be dutiful towards his/her partner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
In terms of emotional expression or mood, the ENFj provides the ISTj with energy, if you want to call this "dominate".Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
In terms of consistence of ideas - as Kristiina described - the ENFj relies on the ISTj.
it seems to me like enfjs are often more attracted to estps because they chase after power, success, and high-energy lifestyles many times. it definitely depends on the enfj i think. many enfjs that are into humanitarian sort of projects seem to be repulsed by :Se:. it seems that when enfjs get along with istjs they are the hard-working disciplined sort of istj generally. someone in management for example or a person in a "respectable" position like a judge or something. oftentimes these enfjs seem to value the structure that these people bring to their lives. i am speaking of enfj-f istj-m because that is what i have encountered for the most part
If you are looking at quality's, that sounds more like an objective point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by onetreehilluver
Like, someone well educated would probably have good quality's in the objective eyes of every type.
But duality is about subjective feelings between types. And then education doesn't count, but the feeling that he gives you is what counts. You subcounsiously know he is protecting some part of you and somehow you think you know him/her for a long time. And somewhere you know he can be trusted 100% which will even get your feelings that he/she is a soulmate higher.
And it really works this way, as i've been in several dual relations, and every time again it feels the same! :)
How does ISTJ nourish ENFJ's hidden agenda? - The need to be wealthy.
I know that ISTJ's generally work hard but are they more effective at providing financially for their partners than other types?
A few points --
First, this "to be wealthy" thing is an über-oversimplification by Sergei Ganin of what it means for a type to have :Se: as 6th function or hidden agenda. A desire to be wealthy is one of its manifestations; it's not the only one, and not necessarily even the main one.
Second, the hidden agenda is not "nourished", in the way you imply, by the duals - and certainly not if you take those minimalist descriptions.
Third, certainly an ENFj is not, typically, waiting for someone else to give them money. ENFjs are not beggars - not all of them, anyway :P
Finally, the way it does work is this -- a typical ENFj-ISTj dual pair will put some emphasis on longer-term accumulation of wealth over shorter-term enjoyment of it. In doing that together, the ENFj provides the ISTj with :Fe: stimuli and a :Ni: reassurance of the way things are going. The ISTj provides the ENFj with a :Ti: sense of logical consistency and certainty of understanding, and a :Se: push to actually get things going.
I also think that the Se creative acts as a reassurance to eventual doubts that the ENFj has in following a given path (this is usually provided by the positivist party of any given dual pair, i think)Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Right.
The ENFj is Taciturn-Negativist-Process
The ISTj is Narrator-Positivist-Process
So:
ENFj: "what am I doing wrong?"
ISTj: "that's what you got to do!"
i like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Both become clerics and promote religious fanaticism until a theocracy is established.
They play the good an the bad, like with police. ISTj plays the bad role (like the first part of the bible) while the other plays the good (like in the last part).
All cultures which had beta values ended up this way. Egypt, Israel and such.
An interesting perspectiveQuote:
Originally Posted by mikemex
Yeah, sure. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemex
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemex
hmmm, no, I don't think so.
They usually laugh and have a lot of fun, play jokes, etc.
I'm a male ISTj (Ti subtype) and I got some questions for ENFj's. Myself, I prefer the Fe subtypes but ofcourse Ni subtypes can answer too. I used to date an ENFj (Fe subtype) and I'd like to get answers for the following questions:
1. Who should decide over things?
a) I should make the decision on my own while trying to find the best solution suitable for both of us.
b) I should make a suggestion and ask her if she wanted to do something more or else.
c) Saying that anything is fine for me and I'll let her decide.
d) Your own comments?
Own comments: This one ofcourse isn't that easy to answer to but tell me which do you prefer. Myself, I have a bit bad experiences from the c).
2. Victimization - About ENFj's making themselves as victims.
The ENFj I used to date (we are still very good friends) often made herself look like a victim. One time she told about her uncureable sickness she had suffered since she was 1 year old. I was almost speechless. I said I'm very sorry she had to suffer from something like that. What's the reason for making yourself as victims and how do you expect the listener to react on this? Is this a part of a larger strategy to build deeper bonds between people?
3. Mood changes
Our dating went very well for the first few days. After that she just announced me that it's better if we'll just stay as friends. The reason for this she said that she doesn't want to date me because she can't give me the fullest of her now and it's such a short time after she broke up with her last man who she was engaged with. The funny part here is that it was actually her who made all the initiative here in the beginning. She also warned me many that she was in a bad mood etc. Is this characteristic for all ENFj's? My god can it be frustrating.
4. Talk topics
Myself, I like to talk about common things which I guess makes me a bit boring. I also like to talk about deeper things but this usually requires the ENFj's initiative for the start. What kind of things do you like to talk about? The girl I used to date got very excited if I talked about my feelings or something similar. But talking about stuff like this isn't very natural for me.
5. Initiative for dating
How do you expect a man to make an initiative? I often make eye-contact with ENFj girls and their gaze often stops at me and they'll continue watching me even if they would be talking to someone else. Sometimes if I see a ENFj alone somewhere and I'll give her a few glances she might start smiling a lot and she can't even seem to stop it :wink:. These probably are some sort of expressions of interest. After this it's probably safe to go and talk to them, right?
One more funny thing about the ENFj I used to date. We see each other almost every day. Even though she is now dating another man (she told me about this and I've even seen him) she constantly keeps on glancing me and shows other expressions of interest although I'm not replying to these gestures. But that only seems to make her do more of them...
My, my, it took over 30 minutes to write this post. I hope I'll get some decent answers for it :wink:
Can I answer too? (c:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
This one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
Not sure what the reason is, but cuddle them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
Heh get used to it (c:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
They should do the talking I think, answer, ask questions, compliment them and make them laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
No idea, I pretty much go blindly here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I "dated" - or whatever - two ENFj girls, so here are my 2 cents --Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
They both seemed to like the "strong, somewhat silent type who knows what he wants" who however will take the initiative in approaching them. However, they will also start conversation with a guy on occasion. I met one of the ENFj girls while on a train in Europe; she was the one who started to talk to me. But the both of us were alone in a train cabin; in such a situation I think that an ENFj will feel "the need" to get a conversation going.
Ofcourse anyone can answer, as long as the discussion stays on it's track.
So, did you guys watch the game last night?
Definitely a. Absolutely no doubt about it! c is a huge turnoff. When a guy tells me to decide, I always tell them I'm ok with anything and that they should decide. If they insist that I should decide, I immidiately write them off. Not a man in my eyes! I have a hard time respecting guys who can't take the lead in such small things as casual decisions, even if it's just a male friend. Answer b is ok I guess. At least for a little while. I'm usually pretty good at coming up with alternatives of what to do, but I have a hard time making a final decision. I get stressed over small choices like "pork or chicken. Pork is good, but I just had pork yesterday and chicken is dry but it's healthy..." I can just spend a long time coming up with a bunch of reasons why to pick either one and I would be ok with either one, but I just can't decide and then I postpone it. And then I don't eat and then I get hungry. And you don't wanna see me get hungry. :P I expect guys to take that burden away.Quote:
1. Who should decide over things?
a) I should make the decision on my own while trying to find the best solution suitable for both of us.
b) I should make a suggestion and ask her if she wanted to do something more or else.
c) Saying that anything is fine for me and I'll let her decide.
d) Your own comments?
I don't really see it like making myself look like a victim. Not at all. I have inner doubts and difficulties and obstales to overcome. I have some very hard experiences in the past, which are also mine alone to overcome. Sometimes I get tired of suffering quietly on the inside, so I just sometimes talk about such things. Not that often. I just sometimes want someone to understand that I'm really trying to be brave and strong...Quote:
2. Victimization - About ENFj's making themselves as victims.
:o I don't have mood changes!!! Jerk! :PQuote:
3. Mood changes
Ok, on a more serious note, :) my mood does change quite a bit. It has good and bad aspects - It's bad when I'm in a bad mood or really furious about something that's out of my control, or depressed about something that is supposed to be under my control but isn't. But it's good when I'm in a really good mood or when I have too much energy and I just really need to pull someone else into the high-energy mode. It can be a lot of fun.
I have a wide selection of topics that I like. And normally it doesn't matter what we (me and anyone else) talk about, as long as it's fun. I like to talk fast and I like to have sharp conversations with many sudden laughing moments and many personal/individual references from previous conversations. Sometimes a few contemplative conversations get slow and deep, but usually I like to talk fast even about intuitive topics. Like for example, I could kill the silence by saying, "but what if God expected all people to die in the great flood because he know that we'll ruin Earth?" and I expect the other person to give a quick reply. Any reply will do. It would be good if the other person would think it's a cool topic and if we can have a serious conversation about it. btw, "dunno" does not count as a reply. :PQuote:
4. Talk topics
Myself, I like to talk about common things which I guess makes me a bit boring. I also like to talk about deeper things but this usually requires the ENFj's initiative for the start. What kind of things do you like to talk about? The girl I used to date got very excited if I talked about my feelings or something similar. But talking about stuff like this isn't very natural for me.
well... I smile a lot, even when I'm not flirting. If it's a semi-stranger and I think it would be nice to know them better, I might make a casual comment about "do you know what they are buidling up there?" or "the cafeteria is open today, right?". But I wouldn't really have a conversation. Unless I was in a confined space with one other person for longer than 20 minutes. (like in Expat's example here.) It would feel awkward to ignore that they are there. And I could flirt, but I would never really approach a guy that I like. And if a guy, that I didn't notice, approaches me, then I'm likely to notice them and respect them for initiating.Quote:
5. Initiative for dating
How do you expect a man to make an initiative? I often make eye-contact with ENFj girls and their gaze often stops at me and they'll continue watching me even if they would be talking to someone else. Sometimes if I see a ENFj alone somewhere and I'll give her a few glances she might start smiling a lot and she can't even seem to stop it :wink:. These probably are some sort of expressions of interest. After this it's probably safe to go and talk to them, right?
This one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I do that often and I'm a hypochondriac... ;p I like when somebody tells me everythings will gonna be allright or give me logic arguments that nothing is wrong with me ;pQuote:
2. Victimization - About ENFj's making themselves as victims.
All the time, but such people like ISTj can stop this mood-changing draft in my case.Quote:
3. Mood changes
Can't tell... everything can be interesting though ;pQuote:
4. Talk topics
If I like a guy I expect him to make the decision otherwise I might reconsider my feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I am very much like this. I can be so sure of my feelings and then I start to panic and I start to realize that I don't like that person but the idea of him I had. If she really is ENFj she's probably not over him and I'm sure she was interested in you but not enough to want to pursue a relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I like to talk about any type of entertainment I'm interested in. I also like to talk about my feelings and how sad the world really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I'm fine with the guy coming up to me or glancing my way to make it obvious. If that happens I'll walk by and slightly turn to see if he's looking back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I hear that ENFJs are boring during sex.
Only way I'm not boring during sex is if you either catch me off-guard or I'm really in the mood to do it. If it's too planned and I know it's coming, and I'm not really all that into it- then yeah I'm going to be extremely boring.Quote:
I hear that ENFJs are boring during sex.
Good. I'm not sure I'm ENFj yet totally, but I'll try to help you out anyway.Quote:
Ofcourse anyone can answer, as long as the discussion stays on it's track.
You need to decide! I'll assume you are my my straight male dual friend here, but even then- you need to be the decider! By nature, EIEs are bad at deciding.Quote:
1. Who should decide over things?
a) I should make the decision on my own while trying to find the best solution suitable for both of us.
b) I should make a suggestion and ask her if she wanted to do something more or else.
c) Saying that anything is fine for me and I'll let her decide.
d) Your own comments?
I admit we do this a lot. You need to protect us and baby us in a kind of logical, laid-back way.Quote:
2. Victimization - About ENFj's making themselves as victims.
Errrr I'm not sure. It almost sounds like she was indirectly challenging you to get angry and to do anything you could to protect her (which relates to her victim-playing too, remember). EIEs sometimes play test-your-love games like that.Quote:
3. Mood changes... (blah blah blah)
Work together and meet half-way? Allow her to get you to open about the paranormal, get her to be more common-ish. She secretly likes to talk about common things just like you secretly like to talk about deeper stuff, that's why you are duals. I know personally I love to talk about practical stuff like jobs/taxes but I want to make sure I'm 'set' with the person on the weird-ness too.Quote:
4. Talk topics
Myself, I like to talk about common things which I guess makes me a bit boring. I also like to talk about deeper things but this usually requires the ENFj's initiative for the start. What kind of things do you like to talk about? The girl I used to date got very excited if I talked about my feelings or something similar. But talking about stuff like this isn't very natural for me.
I'm not sure... it depends on how often she really knows you but sounds like you're off to a great start. lol and you seem kinda cocky too, that's okay as long as it doesn't get too out of hand. =pQuote:
5. Initiative for dating
How do you expect a man to make an initiative? I often make eye-contact with ENFj girls and their gaze often stops at me and they'll continue watching me even if they would be talking to someone else. Sometimes if I see a ENFj alone somewhere and I'll give her a few glances she might start smiling a lot and she can't even seem to stop it . These probably are some sort of expressions of interest. After this it's probably safe to go and talk to them, right?
One more funny thing about the ENFj I used to date. We see each other almost every day. Even though she is now dating another man (she told me about this and I've even seen him) she constantly keeps on glancing me and shows other expressions of interest although I'm not replying to these gestures. But that only seems to make her do more of them...
I never really understood why EIE's make the distinction between the person and the idea of the person, or make the distinction between loving someone and loving the idea of someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by onetreehilluver
?
Vizlu: Just indulge the inherent sense of correctness that comes with Ti, and you should be ok with the EIE. Remember, Ti is never wrong, and as strange/illogical as that sounds, it will allow some degree of success in your circumstance.
I think that's a sign of the EIE being very self-aware, honestly. It shows an understanding that the idea they have of someone may not be the same as the reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
This happens because the :Fe:+ :Ni: combination is the most "internal" one you can have (as in internal dynamics of objects, and of fields). That's why Beta NFs are the most "visionary" types - for good or evil. That includes very "internal" ideas about the world, and about individuals. So just like, in politics, and "big picture" things it may lead them to pursue goals, ideals, visions, missions, whatever, that are disconnected from reality, it may also lead them to focus on the idea of a person rather than the reality.
And that is why such types are often those that rise the highest - and often those who crash down the hardest.
Very nice explanation ;) You have a good idea of ENFj, congratulations :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Expat
ENFj needs people who will bring them down to earth :P
Thanks. It looks like having had some kind of relationship with 3 or 4 ENFj women helped. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by lastdance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
I find it humorous when you combine the above two statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastdance
Anyways, it seems female ENFjs here, especially Kristiina, tend to have very traditional ideas about gender roles. I wonder how much of their opinions are type related and how much a result of culture and upbringing.
I have not had the opportunity to observe male ISTj - female ENFj relationship but I have observed male ISTj - male ENFj work relations. It seems to me that the ENFj more naturally takes on the leader role and actually wants to be and present himself as a strong and capable decision maker. They have a hard time admitting that they have problems in this area.
So, the way I see it the ENFj is the one who "walks ahead" and ISTj comes right behind. On occasions the ENFj starts to hesitate and in these moments the ISTj grabs him and tells him not to hesitate and just keep going. ISTj needs ENFj to show the direction and ENFj needs ISTj's help to stay in that direction (sometimes, not all the time). ISTj calms the ENFj down when they need it the most. I have never ever witnessed total submission of ENFj to ISTj decisions. Instead ENFjs can be somewhat forceful in trying to impose their decisions on other people. Or at least try to be.
Well, this thread is about male ISTj - female ENFj relation but still I would like to know whether e.g. Kristiina sees female ISTjs the same way. Do you want them to make all your decisions too? Or is part / a lot of it about traditional male and female roles. Males should do the decisions and take responsibility. Females should follow and obey.
That's my estimation.Quote:
Originally Posted by betterthandead
I'm not ENFj; others say I'm ESTp. I know I'd rather take initiative than not, although I find it cute when girls take initiative.
So I'll give my take.
Lots of girls seem to go for c; so that they can bitch later, about how you should have known blah blah based upon blah blah. A lot of them talk too much, and just like to give flack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
So I'm going with a.
You can always bounce an idea off a girl; if they say you decide, then you decide. For some reason my dark side likes to bounce stupid ideas off. But hey, I like to know there's a loop.
I've had bad experiences with girls doing c too. Oh hangon you're saying c? Hah.Quote:
Own comments: This one ofcourse isn't that easy to answer to but tell me which do you prefer. Myself, I have a bit bad experiences from the c).
I think that's like when girls like to talk about how they have some kind of conformity, or that they're going to die, or they have a headache, or they can't hear themselves think, or get worried about their limbs and so forth.Quote:
2. Victimization - About ENFj's making themselves as victims.
The ENFj I used to date (we are still very good friends) often made herself look like a victim. One time she told about her uncureable sickness she had suffered since she was 1 year old.
You're a sympathetic guy.Quote:
I was almost speechless. I said I'm very sorry she had to suffer from something like that.
I think they're wanting you to take care of them,.Quote:
What's the reason for making yourself as victims and how do you expect the listener to react on this? Is this a part of a larger strategy to build deeper bonds between people?
Maybe it was a test. Did you want to stay "just friends". You could always say that you don't do friendships with girls because it can run into complications. Thereby acknowledging that things are going to get complicated whichever way it goes.Quote:
3. Mood changes
Our dating went very well for the first few days. After that she just announced me that it's better if we'll just stay as friends. The reason for this she said that she doesn't want to
She's overthinking.Quote:
date me because she can't give me the fullest of her now and it's such a short time after she broke up with her last man who she was engaged with. The funny part here is that it
She's worried about how she's coming across. Prop her up a bit.Quote:
was actually her who made all the initiative here in the beginning. She also warned me many that she was in a bad mood etc. Is this characteristic for all ENFj's? My god can it be frustrating.
One time I met a girl in a bar, who sat next to me. She complained about me talking about boring things. I was kind of in a down mood. She said I should make a better impression.Quote:
4. Talk topics
Myself, I like to talk about common things which I guess makes me a bit boring. I also like to talk about deeper things but this usually requires the ENFj's initiative for the start. What
I found it kind of amusing. I mean, I know that I can make more of an impression sometimes than other times. I just didn't have much in the way of words. Still, we got into quite a bit of conversation somehow. Although I kept thinking of her as a prostitute. She was small, and liked to lean forward a lot.
But to be honest, I think that with some people you can just stick something out there, and they can go with that. Then you can stick something different out there. You can steer, but you don't have to do that much talking. Whereas other people you have to talk quite a lot to get conversation going, until they feel comfortable.
Then don't talk about your feelings. Hold them back! Don't let her get too excited, but let her get some excitement, then some more; don't give it all to her at once. And get her to do something in exchange, for her getting excited.Quote:
kind of things do you like to talk about? The girl I used to date got very excited if I talked about my feelings or something similar. But talking about stuff like this isn't very natural for me.
For some reason with some gazes, I want to go up and touch people. I suppose it's kind of forward. If they give too much interest/attention though, you want to come on a bit stronger, right?Quote:
5. Initiative for dating
How do you expect a man to make an initiative? I often make eye-contact with ENFj girls and their gaze often stops at me and they'll continue watching me even if they would be talking to someone else. Sometimes if I see a ENFj alone somewhere and I'll give her a few
You could always be like are you looking at me, and if she looks away, play a bit. I don't know abuot you, but I don't really like it when girls find it easy to pay attention to me. It's like there's nothing there.Quote:
glances she might start smiling a lot and she can't even seem to stop it :wink:. These probably are some sort of expressions of interest. After this it's probably safe to go and talk to them, right?
If you feel it's not safe then don't, if you feel it's safe do. Just be sure of which one to do.
I think that stuff is weird, but it doesn't necessarily tell you a lot. Is she the kind of girl that needs to be in a relationship; maybe she can bounce back at you. Maybe she really wants to be friends.Quote:
One more funny thing about the ENFj I used to date. We see each other almost every day. Even though she is now dating another man (she told me about this and I've even seen him) she constantly keeps on glancing me and shows other expressions of interest although I'm not replying to these gestures. But that only seems to make her do more of them...
Good luck! Go hard!Quote:
My, my, it took over 30 minutes to write this post. I hope I'll get some decent answers for it :wink:
Nobody knows a relation where is male ENFj, and female ISTj :) ?
I've had a few really good EIE relations, so let me put my two cents in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
"a" works well for me in most cases, and it defiantly worked well with EIE's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
This is true in my experience, I am not sure why they do this. I think they try to do this to get people to feel sorry for them. I think what you did was right, but I would not make it a major issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
In my experience, yes, just be there. Don't give them a power trip if they are being manipulative (I am not saying that she is). Be simple, if you know what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I would talk about common things with an ENFj that I was with (I think this includes really all of them), and she would take off with something else that was more Fe and Ni, I don't know how to describe it. I don't know how to describe that, EIE's are just good at that, I don't think you have anything to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
oh god... I don't know. I think that is what I would do, have restraint!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilzu
I can think of some historical examples that could be it, and in university I knew an ENFj guy who was friends with an ISTj girl, but they weren't together (the ENFj guy was with a SEE, and the ISTj girl, with an ISFp - ie benefit in both cases). The guy was very flirty with her but he managed to be "charming within the bounds of friendship" rather than obnoxious.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastdance
As for historical figures, maybe King James I of England with Queen Anne, and Emperor Justinian and Theodora, of Byzantium. I can't think of less obscure examples.
****** and Eva Braun, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by lastdance
How ISTj and ENFj atract themselves ? Maybe someone can share some real life observations or just speculate :P
Is there some dual seeking system or is it just luck that duals can find each other ? :P What do ya think ?
You know -- it's really easy to find LSIs, at least for me. All you have to do is be very :Fe: at first, they love that, and it's easier to show than creative :Ni:. You'll actually find that a lot of LSIs have ESE friends but since you're an EIE (supposedly), you'll just be that much better, and they'll realize that after getting to know you.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastdance
Honestly, LSIs are so easy to attract, maybe it's just cause I've had an LSI in my life since birth (father!). If you read the stuff on duality, it's apparently much easier if you've already had the experience early on and know how to "naturally" attract your dual by being yourself, cliche as that sounds. It's something you have to get used to - just totally exposing WHO YOU ARE to suspected LSIs. If they are, they'll respond totally with laughter, happiness, etc.
I am attracted to LSIs for the calm they exude upon me, the quiet confidence and ability to get it all done, no matter how crazed I am on the inside (worried, anxious, etc.) It's very therapeutic to be around them, and they are not at ALL robotic. They are so fun-loving and cute.
I know LSI's :D I just want to hear something from you forumers, what is your view on this relation between ENFj and ISTj, how your relations look and even more :P
Well I'm going to talk about social settings as this would be the main setting for meeting people...
In my experience, the LSI is quick to warm up to the EIEs efforts of including everyone in conversation. The problem mainly lies with the EIE, I think. It seems their primary focus is on the group dynamics and the EIE harmoising himself to relate to everyone that it seems like each person holds equal appeal to him (or the more boisterous people who are grabbing his attention). I can't speak for other LSIs but I feel a bit vulnerable when someone recognises how awkward I'm in these situations. While I do enjoy and prosper
with the emotional blanket they create, it feels like they can see my weaknesses right away....and more to the point, my strengths aren't expressed as readily....so I don't think they see my appeal initially.
Sometimes I think it has to take a crisis situation for the EIE to see the LSIs value. Everyone is so demanding of his attention and the power play and emotional manipulation (which can grate on my nerves) they adopt sometimes just makes me think they're not worthy of my loyalty and honesty.....and I can't always trust them unless they're consistent.
I do love trying to pull LSIs out of their misery in social settings. It's just so easy to turn them from dull and shy to "so fun-loving and cute" as scarlett phrased it. Just one sharp comment and they become alive. Neutral and friendly comments just don't do it. I get the best result if I say something like "HAAAAA! I WIN I WIN I WIN!!!!! :D" - something completitive and even downgrading. I just love being mean to LSIs because it always helps pull them put of their shell. When I do go overboard and insult them, I can usually tell as they'll literally threaten to kick my ass if I say that again. Then I'll pull back and say something nice to balance it. When this kind of honesty disappears from the relationship, the friendship breaks and there's no saving it. I learned it the hard way, but if you remove the aggression and the competitive dialogue, and when you constantly pick the polite response before the downgrading one, then duality just disappears.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakealittle
Anyway, that's the kind of extra-Fe aggressive behavior that attracts LSIs in my experience.
... and the rule is still - there has to be more positive than negative. I can only say the mean comments because I spend most of the time assuring them that they're the best thing since sliced bread. When we both go home, they HAVE TO be happier than before.
istjs fall in the dominant sexual subtype right? hello.
i have a daddy complex from hell...
.
yeah whip it out istjs ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana
...tap dances off stage.
So, Kristiina, what are you doing with a non-LSI boyfriend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
For what it's worth, I'm sure that ENFj's aren't the only one to say "I win". Although maybe the "I Win I win I win,." seems more than most people would do.
I remember reading this when I was still trying to work out my type, and it caused me some problems then (and sort of still does). Maybe it is because this is from an EIE perspective, but I really don't identify with some of the way LSIs are described here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
I agree with the parts about honesty breaking friendships to a point of no return. And yeah, the thing about bickering does make sense in the context of close friendships - but I wouldn't expect to be constantly bickering with every EIE I met. For example, there's this EIE guy with whom I have a really easy, mutually compatible friendship. Yes, he says scathing and hilarious things about his workplace, and always has a great anecdote or comment to add, and is very willing to character assassinate people on demand. But, the way we interact is not through aggressive dialogue. His 'aggression' is outwardly focused, on other parties, and it is not constant either - it is merely one facet of his character, and certainly not the sole reason I'm friends with him. I would be rather taken aback and honestly displeased if he started interacting with me the same way, say, unefille did (whom I bicker with constantly). I don't know...'aggressive' comments certainly get my attention, but I think there's a time and place for them.
My other issue with this description of LSIs is the idea that they are somehow vulnerable or even incompetant in social situations. I'm perfectly capable of handling myself in social situations, and I'm comfortable approaching people when I want to. I don't feel like I 'need' someone to bring me out of my shell. And I can't say that when someone is 'mean' to me that makes me want to be around them. Sometimes it makes me competitive and want to exercise some form of dominance over them - but most of those guys that's happened with I don't really consider close friends.
I don't know. Kristiina, I'm not trying to attack you or your description or anything here, but reading stuff like this really makes me question whether I'm LSI. Maybe the problem is with me and I'm just not one.
Oh, please, now you're just being passive-aggressive. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
Hmm, when I win, I try to pretend that I didn't win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
Spank her.Quote:
Originally Posted by unefille
Bitch please.Quote:
Originally Posted by mercutio
But also...why is that meant to deter me?? :P
It might excite you.Quote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
In your dreams. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mercutio
--
On a more serious note:
1. Idolatrie is right - she's not particularly shy or hesitant. But she is static. In any situation, if she's made up her mind to talk to certain people, she kind of dives right in, as though hunting. I, on the other hand, will be hesitant initially, if I'm invested in this person/these people liking me. Beset with doubts. But once we're in the 'fray' of it all, she tends to remain 'anchored' to who she's talking to, like she's accomplished her 'reaching out' bit of the night, and I will drift around, talking to more and more people, and my 'social energy' will get greater as the night goes on.
2. I would have to say, most LSIs (I think they are at the moment - all male bar idolatrie though) initiate with me - usually by asking a direct question. Of course, in order for that to happen, I have to smile and make eye contact and do all the 'I have now acknowledged you, so I promise not to bite if you talk to me' signals.
3. My friendship with idolatrie isn't overtly competitive, though we (as individuals) are competitive. We respect each other and as a team, compete with other people. If we're in direct competition though, we both take it way too seriously to joke about it. It's only ages after that we can joke about 'I totally kicked your ass!' But, uh, honestly, that's a very sensitive thing and there are areas where you can openly compete (like...boardgames, or who can carry the heaviest bags for longest etc) and then there are areas you can't. That said, we don't feel BAD about competing against each other: when we are in competition mode, we just separate that from our friendship.
As odd as it feels to agree with you Merky, I have to say: same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by mercutio
When I win (and I very much want to win) the feeling is more of relief than elation. ['OMG, I didn't lose' more than 'I won'.] So, sure, I want to bask in the glory and deep inside I want my awesomeness acknowledged, but I tend to act completely nonchalant, if smiley and relaxed. You can probably see me visibly relax.
But no victory dances, ever. Those are kinda tacky in public, particularly in front of people you just beat. In private, with people I like and trust? Bring out the champagne, the gloating and the joyous dancing!
I wouldn't really call it bickering, but it's very common with me and EIEs. How about teasing?Quote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
How often do you want to? Maybe saying that EIEs make you "want to" will make it easier? :-PQuote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
You do seem extrovert to me, at least in a socionics sense.
She was talking about beta mean, not asshole mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
I don't think any of this necessarily makes her an extrovert, though it makes her quite aggressive, I suppose might be the word for it. As far as the question of energy expenditure goes, she's not particularly energetic. More stable and unmovable than volatile.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
She's just being touchy about being seen as someone who is socially retarded or requiring any social assistance in any form. I think more to the point is that I call her a 'retard' and a 'useless fatty' and all sorts of awful names and she doesn't mind because it's me. She basically doesn't take it from anyone else. Would she take it from other EIEs? She says no, but I would think she has to. I certainly tease/mock/abuse just about everybody I like or whose company I enjoy, I'm sure it's the same with most EIEs.
Hmm, I was having a chat about this with unefille last night, where she basically pointed out I was being cranky and purposely misunderstanding the point. And I guess in some ways that's exactly what happened. I don't like what's associated with being an 'introvert'. I think this is some of the e8 bleeding through as well. I don't really need help when I'm in a social situation in terms of getting what I want out of it. But I think that's more to do with being reasonably self-confident. In terms of where my energy is directed, I know I'm more inwardly-focused. But yes, I'm having issues with extrovert/introvert, socionically and otherwise, and that's probably meant I'm projecting stuff in what I write to compensate.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
I think the problem is that I just only know the one EIE. I know I wrote previously about being friends with another EIE, but again, after talking it over with unefille, we decided he's actually IEI. And given the only EIE I know is my best friend, I've always put our mode of interaction down to us being, you know, best friends for ages. So yes, we bicker and tease constantly. It just feels like a leap for me to say I act like that around my best friend, to I act like that around all EIEs. Since I have no empirical evidence of how I would act around another EIE. But I take your point - we totally put on a 'show' when around other people, and entertain them. Completely ramp up the atmosphere.
Same goes for 'Beta mean'. Apparently I just don't even notice it, haha. I was being cranky and pedantic in my first reply.
I need an ISTj bad. I need to stop attracting ESTp's :P
Haha, yeah, I'm definitely lucky to have her. <3Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
So next time I get bitchy on forum, *points to unefille* talk to her. She'll call me and nag until I get on here and apologise. :p
GUYS, WE NEED TO STOP THREADJACKING!
THE ORIGINAL POST ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT EIE-LSI INTERACTION, PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY WERE CURIOUS ABOUT HOW TO FIND/ATTRACT A DUAL.
SO FOCUS ON THAT!
It expired. Turn the page. Next time, someone starts another thread we'll get more answers. Learning is progressive. You need fun as well as strife.Quote:
Originally Posted by unefille
I was with a friend yesterday and we met an ENFj, in some kind of stand on the street asking people for money or signatures to save the children of the world. I don't care about the children of the world so I took out my map and preemptively asked her for directions. She was very helpful and asked why I was there etc, having these Fe bursts whenever she liked the answers, including a little hop with a smile and a shy double thumbs-up when we told her we were italians. Ahaha totally cute.
The ISTj apology! We might be identicals after all (c:Quote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
...
I really doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suomea
I've been doing that lately. I find an INFj and go black square on 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
What's that supposed to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Suomea
This works well, provided the guy is willing to approach. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by unefille
<3 <3 <3 :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/c..._yrsel2art.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Diana
exampleQuote:
Originally Posted by dee
i reckon this whole 7th forum abstract reasoning bullshit is too complicated for normal people.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakealittle
This lady must be my dual, an ISTj. Most of the time, An healthy ENFj is always called an helper, or a mentor, trying to reach people's potential and inspire other with his wisdom. They can go the extra mile to help people. But the problem lies that they do not know how to help themselves, and we are always "sinking into doubts" away from the public. Most ENFj present themselves with the "right manners", say the "right things" in front of the right people, and it's not so ready to actually open up their personal problem with people who deem unable to help. I don't think any other type can actually help an ENFj on that except for an ISTj.
Since numbers has taken it upon himself to bump up old threads about Beta rational duality, I'd like to read comments from other Betas regarding their intertype relations with LSIs and how it's played out from their point of view in real life interaction. It's interesting that the LSI seems to be the least talked about type in this subforum (IMO).
idolatrie, LSI can be very very confident in social setting. Depending on what kind of social setting they are in, as with all types, can feel very confident or very awkward depedning the circumstances. I would like to add that LSI actually seem more extrovert, and the EIE more introvert on first glance.Quote:
Originally Posted by idolatrie
EIE's I met don't seem introverted to me at all. Maybe I haven't met Ni subtype ones. LSI's I met are all smiles and laughs but I wouldn't call them extroverted that much, they are reactive, not active.
Word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssmall
The first duality couple that on first sight can seem the other way around regarding intro/extraversion is IEE-SLI imo. IEE's often being (appearing as) shy, quiet and reserved and SLI's being free spirited jokesters.
Yesterday I reunited with the Se-LSI I consider the closest friend/love of my life so far. (We hadn't seen each other in years.)
Even though our relationship ended badly two years ago, with recriminations and yelling, when we saw each other again, we couldn't stop smiling, laughing, and talking.
When we first saw each other, we both looked at each other and said, at the same time, "Wow."
Immediately, it was as though the past--the bad in it, anyway--meant nothing. Our conversation was extremely easy and interesting.
I'm increasingly shocked and amazed at how accurate Model A Socionics is... It's really amazing... This theory could change the entire world... Thank God for my dual.
I find EIE-LSI duality gets shit done. We're remarkably efficient at working through concepts together and you know, being effective.
I particularly love how EIEs can make me feel better (ESEs too, but in a different, more sentimental way). Sometimes it feels like there is no way out of my emotional milieu, but then they come along and push away the cobwebs, let some light in past the layers of dust. Sometimes I get so caught up in my own thinking processes, and they will throw some suggestion in, some new option, and it is like, yes, that was the piece I was missing, or that's a really exciting development, and everything becomes interesting again.
http://lalibertadylaley.files.wordpr...kirchner-p.jpg
I think these two are a very likely example of this duality -- Cristina and Nestor Kirchner, the current and the former presidents of Argentina.
Her type is far more obvious to me than his, individually.
For the record, I have no time for them politically; but their obvious bond (personal as well as political) is remarkable.
when I first glanced at that picture, I thought it was Donald Trump. lol
@ JuJu, very cool about your reconnection with your dual. I find it all pretty amazing also.
Very good call!! Ti-LSI and Fe-EIEQuote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Being LSI, I met an EIE a little over a month ago and we both seemed to feel passionately about the other, but now we barely talk and now it seems like hes seen an ex who is also LSI. I met my dual, but I believe I screwed it up somehow.
Been with an Inspector recently and probably for the first time. There is a generational difference, but I like that, too, since at some level I'm past oriented (I think at base each type reflects the other's primary type (model b - my most unconscious features are Si Te like inspectors primary) and that gives an overall feeling of the other's primary type. For example I relate in a modern way - Se Ti - instinctually, sometimes aggressive, paying attention to whatever is going on and that can help protect my dual because socially I'm focused on the now, but at a base unconscious level in the model b levels I'm a traditionalist so I'll preserve the home and care for someone. I also think that although I'm a victim sexually that my primary mental type is caretaker.
So I propose Model A is Primary / orientation, Secondary / taking in info, Tertiary / choices, 4th vulnerable function is how we arrange our lives and needs shielding of dual. But Model B the unconscious side of ourselves is similiar with the 3rd model B function (choices) being our trickster element I.e. the function that needs to be made constant - in my case Si - cleaning up my act, cleaning literally, saving money - but can be excessive also - too much sleep.
And i think our 3rd primary function is how we relate to others. For example I think the ENFJ relates as an ESTP. They do conquer they influence others. They can be bold socially. It's like an enneagram wing or astrological rising sign. And then on a private level they're a healer (unconscious) and finally at a low level they contain the inspector's primary elements so an overall feeling of inspector traditional orientation imerges and they do partially inspect people, too.
Being with a dual I found myself almost having an identity crisis with the way my Model B unconscious healer side was activated. I almost felt like I wasn't being myself. But he continuously needed that side of me and drew it out until it was fully activated and it helped him. Inspectors are hellaciously Sensory animals. It's amazing to me. To watch a sensor who can be a sophisticated sensor also having his ESTP side (and i think Inspectors relate as healers (3rd & 4th model a functions) - so that he's substanial. He's got a side like great lovers and brats like Marlon Brando. Feeling this less concious ESTP side makes me appreciate ESTP's more, because is at a lower level private and I know how to deal with that almost instinctively. And it helped him and that's a good feeling, because my Model B INFP side tries to help others, but often isn't primary enough. So it almost felt like my psyche was activated and pulled out of me then the Si Te emerged a stable environment of checking him for consistancy and caring for him until we could both return to our primary side again.
Being with a sensor for me is no joke. They need to feel everything in the body. They want to try everything, because the physical side is reality to them. And the ESTP side wants to rebel. Only because since they feel everything in the body - to be limited too much by demands of responsability (duty bound type) means a kind of death to them that feels real. And it demands that I be consistent and I need that I guess which is scary for me, too.
ENFJ
FE - Primary
Ni - Secondary
Se - Tertiary - Relating to others ESTP (se/ti) - Wing/Rising Sign/Way of Relating
Ti - 4th - Arranging Life - Vulnerable Function Requiring Dual
Model B - Private and/or uncionscious
Fi - Primary
Ne - Secondary
Si - Tertiary - Trickster Function - Needs to be secured by dual. Inspector Functions (si/te)
Te - 4th Private Traditionalist Environment emerges.
In the other types it's the inverse where there's a traditional mode of relating but the envvironment stays more in the moment. ESTPs probably require greater adaptation skills on the part of their dual since they're likely to be wilder. I can't go into detail about the nature of that relationship, because I can't have that relationship, but I could theorize about it later. But inkeeping with my theory the INFP relates as an Inspector and an environment of Conqeuring and focus on the moment emerges and the ESTP relates as a teacher and an environment of healing and reconcilliation emerges.
Anyway you've torn my shit up before, but this is how I view socionics. Socionics is important because it's more dynamic than MBTI. How boring it is to just view 4 functions when people are more comlpex than that. Maybe INFJs can make more of it than I can and the individual, but - I think we should challenge ourselves to make our view of the models dynamic and not nail them down.
Secondly I propose that if you're a victim sexually you're a caretaker mentally. And an aggressor sexually is infantile mentally. And that Infantiles sexually are Agressors mentally and that Caretakers Sexually are Victims mentally. True infantiles sexually are the Alpha males and their minds are aggressive even if they are not. I would like to start a seperate thread on this, but I'm not sure how far it can go - and again people like to shut this topic down, because it's too dynamic it adds complexity rather than removing it, but that's the direction exploration of individuals should go - say I programmer of the beta quadrant :P :) & as I stated above I relate as an aggressor.
Hey Everyone, I'm an LSI and I'm new to the forums (though I've known about socionics for about 3 years or so).
Anyway I've been having trouble with an EIE that I've known for just over a year, we're acquaintances not close friends (even though she's the love of my life).
She's recently came back from a 3 month vacation abroad and just before she left I talked to her for a while at the local bar and my :Se: was telling me that she may have been interested in me. I wasn't getting a lot of resistance from her, the conversation between us was flowing easily (as is the case for most dual interactions).
So when she got back from her vacation, I got her number from a friend and gave her a call about a week ago. She sounded pleased to hear from me and was telling me enthusiastically about her vacation and about her new job (she was on a lunch break when I called her). I suggested that we meet up for coffee sometime and she replied 'yeah sure', without any hesitation or delay. So I suggested that she get back to me to tell me when she was free. As her lunch break was about to end, I couldn't lock in a time and place to meet up over the phone.
Since then I've sent her a text message asking her about her schedule and I've rung her a couple of times. So far she hasn't replied to my message and hasn't answered my calls. I don't know what she's thinking. When we first met our eyes locked for about 3 seconds. I have a sneaking suspicion that she cares deeply about me as I do about her - though I could be wrong.
What's the best way to proceed with her? I really want to meet up and start the rest of my life with her. Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
Well EIEs are hard work at the best of times.
Have you considered that she's being polite? I dunno...the best way to tell if there might be something there is to see how she treats others and compare that to how she treats you. It can be a good way or bad way.
Have you read the victim description? That's a good way to tell too.
Not sure how you should proceed with her. When I was dating an EIE he would hint a lot of the time and I would act on that. But they can get a little mysterious every so often....and I can't quite figure out why....maybe to test us? or reassure them? they're questioning themselves/the relationship? When that happens, it can be a hard time for the LSI because with weak Fi/Fe and Ne polr I tend to lose confidence with my Ti....and that's really a stressful point I've found with the EIE/LSI duality in my experience.
I should also add that, typically at the start of a relationship, I would consider it more the EIE's responsibility to instil the 'right' emotions in you....they provide the vision/path and you implement that with your Ti + Se.
Hey, I am not a female EIE but I will give it a shot what I think anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ISTj
A lot of the times, :Se: ego can tell and get a read on external reality and they can pick up body languages and tell the person's motivation. But man, we have Weak :Se: as our Hidden Agenda, we aren't as maneuverable, so a lot of the times EIE holds back, Sometimes I see a EIE's tries to cover up their Real interest.
When you let an female EIE know that you have romantic interest in them, I think an LSI will know. An LSI friend of wanted me to hint to an EIE that he was interested. I told her straight up that he was interested, next day, he told me he can notice the difference as he approach her. Only problem was that he is younger than her, so no luck.
Yup, I definity know what you mean about the locked eye contact, I think the most important thing really is if she can date, if she is not too busy with her career or school.Quote:
So when she got back from her vacation, I got her number from a friend and gave her a call about a week ago. She sounded pleased to hear from me and was telling me enthusiastically about her vacation and about her new job (she was on a lunch break when I called her). I suggested that we meet up for coffee sometime and she replied 'yeah sure', without any hesitation or delay. So I suggested that she get back to me to tell me when she was free. As her lunch break was about to end, I couldn't lock in a time and place to meet up over the phone.
Since then I've sent her a text message asking her about her schedule and I've rung her a couple of times. So far she hasn't replied to my message and hasn't answered my calls. I don't know what she's thinking.
When we first met our eyes locked for about 3 seconds. I have a sneaking suspicion that she cares deeply about me as I do about her - though I could be wrong.
It might sound simple, but just ask her out ONE more time, I have asked my identicals out before and they almost always say "I am not sure if i can go to the movies with you tonight," but i instantly picked that up as uncertainty, not rejection, it is jsut something that takes a little bit more time to think about. Then I will asked them again and they said they would, EIEs have to make up our minds first and be certain that they want to do it, it could be that Beta all or nothing theory, or whether to be or not to be, I do that all the time.Quote:
What's the best way to proceed with her? I really want to meet up and start the rest of my life with her. Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
Most EIEs I've known do this...
I'm EIE.. There are people I genuinely want to talk to--and for whatever reason, I don't answer calls or texts right away, if at all... (I recognize that it pisses everyone off...)
Keep trying... If she's anything like me, or the EIEs I know, she will be impressed at your persistence and desire. Eventually she will return the call and things will be as good as before if not better.
What's the all or nothing Beta dating theory?
Should I come clean with her and tell how I feel? Is this what she's waiting for - a clear unambiguous demonstration of affection?
I don't think that's what she's waiting for... EIEs can read people much better than to expect that kind of thing for any type of reassurance. The best I could suggest for you is to wait and remain patient for a little while, and if you still don't get any response then retort by coming clean as a last resort. At which point you should also prepare yourself for disappointment, as it is a risky step.Quote:
Originally Posted by ISTj
One reason she could be holding back is that she's already in a relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by ISTj
Another reason might be that she's really not that interested but is acting polite because she's aware of your feelings. From my experience, EIEs usually find it hard to reject someone openly and would avoid direct emotional confrontation. They could act extremely nice and share their personal stories (like the vacation/new job thing) even with people they don't particularly care about.
Or as 07490 said, she could just be really busy at the moment and have other important and time/energy consuming things going on in her life.
If she's already in a relationship then how should I proceed?
If she wasn't interested wouldn't she have already mentioned a boyfriend or at least have brought him up casually in conversation - to let me down easily?
Work towards the goal of making her surrender to your arms and dump her boyfriend? :? I seriously have no idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ISTj
Hmm, good point. She could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by ISTj