Some possible famous/celebrity LIEs-ENTjs (reboot)

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05-13-2007, 12:17 AM
Expat

I really, really doubt that Kate Moss is ENTj. I think INFp is likely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Detailed descriptions of a person's external behavior are a window into their functions, but the behavior itself is not the type.

I disagree. Appearance = reality.

That's a very sweeping statement, I can't agree with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

Expat have you read anything about Isaac Newton? I'm quite sure he was ENTj, I just recently read about his little quarrel with Leibniz over who was the true father of calculus, lol

I really don't think ENTj is the best type for Newton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

Julius Caesar I've always regarded as ESFp, he was a populist, more concerned with his reputation than with making things more efficient, also he was just too good at breaking traditions and getting away with it to be ENTj.

1) Your point about Caesar being more concerned about his reputation than with efficiency is not borne out by historical evidence
2) He did not "get away" with breaking traditions - he was murdered for that; and that is really not an argument for ESFp>ENTj.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

Also I see where aut0 is coming from in his claims that Augustus was INTj vs. ENTj. I'm relatively familiar with Roman History and Augustus has always struck me as an INTj.

I am extremely familiar with Roman history, and that is why I see that he was more likely ENTj.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

10. Underlying motive was duty (Ti)

A devotion to duty may be Ti or Fi, depending on the motivations for said duty. In Augustus's case, it was about destroying Caesar's murderers. He also banished his own daughter Julia - his only child - for adultery, as well as, later, Julia's daughter, for the same reason. That is more Fi than Ti. The Ti = duty is more of a ISTj Fi role thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

16. Fell asleep before/during sea battle, needed to be woken up to give orders

He was often sea-sick. Not type related.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

17. He focused on Marc Antony's inability to be a "proper" Roman Citizen when they fought politically

That was Antony's political weak point. What does that have to do with being INTj instead of ENTj?

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

23. Following the Teutonic Forest debacle (in which the Romans lost 3 legions) he kept the anniversary as a day of deep mourning, was seen pounding his head against the wall shouting "Quinctilius Varus, give me back my legions!" Never made any future attempt to re-conquer the previously titled province of "Germania"

Same question - what does that have to do with being INTj instead of ENTj? That theatrical behavior - if reported correctly - does not sound ENTj, but neither does it sound INTj. As for not attempting to reconquer Germania, he had lost 3 legions and decided that, strategically, it made no sense. So why is that an argument for INTj and against ENTj?

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

25. "The two faults which he condemned most strongly in a military commander were haste and recklessness"

Same question - do you think that ENTjs would praise recklessness?

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

33-34. Spent much of his time acting as Judge in courts, cases of adultery and marriage especially interested him, when men in the equestrian order acted in ways that threatened the ideal of the Roman family they were dealt with.

Being a judge was part of his job description; his focus on the family morals could be seen as either Ti or Fi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

53. Detested being called "Lord" by others, had a man at a play reprimanded the next day after he did so, despite the audience clapping with approval. Avoided leaving/entering city during day so as to avoid social formalities with guardsmen.

That sounds like a dislike for Fe, which is an argument for ENTj.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

66. Slow to make friends, but the ones he did he kept forever

Which is a Fi>Fe characteristic, especially Fe role, and also characteristic of ENTjs and actually of the Gamma quadra generally (ESFps make acquaintances easily, not necessarily friends).

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

68. Sextus Pompeii jeered at his (Augustus') effeminacy. I've yet to come across an ENTj that anyone would by any standard label "effeminate". Effeminate it a trait, historically, that would more often be used to describe someone quiet, someone seemingly aversive to physical activity.

A lot of ENTjs are adverse to physical activity, and Augustus was physically fragile. Also, that was a political insult, not necessarily how most people perceived him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

72-73. Slept in same bed for 40 years, plainly decorated house. Often retreated to private study by himself, to "hide" from the world

Which shows little regard for Si and Fe. Excellent argument for ENTj.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

93. "showed great respect towards all ancient and long-established foreign rites, but despised the rest.

It can be interpreted in many ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

76. Frugal eating habits, often ate alone, and often would eat simple "common" people food. Would often attend dinners but not eat anything for he had already eaten beforehand (I mention this because Extroverts, in my experience, tend to use meals as a means of naturally socializing and taking pleasure in food with others - Augustus merely partook for it was expected of him)

Again, that is an excellent point for ENTj, little concern for Si and Fe. As for your comment on "extroverts", you are going for MBTI definition of "extroversion", not Socionics. ENTjs dislike Fe social occasions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

He was focused very much on consolidation, on securing the borders rather than expanding them. Focus on re-building destroyed temples, on dividing the Roman city for better administration purpose. The only reason a temple was not built and dedicated to him in his lifetime was that he would not allow it.

First, this is incorrect since he did expand the empire -- a lot. Second, to realize that expansion should stop can be Se, or Te, or lots of other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

Very much focused on Public morals - when his (?I believe, daughter) was reported as not acting according to the morality he espoused, he made an example of her. This internal traditionalism is also present in the apparent fact that he honestly thought about restoring the republic during his fits of ill-health, but decided against it because of the danger it might pose to himself and family.

Yes and all of that suggests Fi of the Gamma sort. Again ENTj.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

Also while ill-health may not be type-related, how it is dealt with definitely is. By this I mean that the fact that there's so many stories claiming Augustus was "sickly" supports that he is INTj. An ENTj would have done better to hide such weakness from the public - an INTj on the other hand would use it as an excuse to avoid social occasions.

In a public figure, expected to appear personally in the Senate etc, it's not easy to hide sickliness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

You mentioned how he made lots of speeches and that such a fact hints towards ENTj

No, I mentioned that because someone said that he disliked giving speeches, acted behind the scenes, etc. I was just disproving that point. It's not necessarily an argument for ENTj as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

so I'll mention that having read through Suetonius' history I see no mention of his brilliant oratory skills. He obviously studied rhetoric and he obviously was a member of a distinguished family, thus he would be expected to have sufficient public speaking skill. But I don't think such warrants glorifying his speaking ability.

Then let's go to Tacitus instead:

13.3 : The dictator Caesar rivalled the greatest orators, and Augustus had an easy and fluent way of speaking, such as became a sovereign. Tiberius too thoroughly understood the art of balancing words, and was sometimes forcible in the expression of his thoughts, or else intentionally obscure. Even Caius Caesar's disordered intellect did not wholly mar his faculty of speech. Nor did Claudius, when he spoke with preparation, lack elegance.

Anyway, Bill Gates is ENTj and he does not have particularly good public speaking skills, so it's not really an useful discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by misutii

---Conclusion- all of this information points towards not only a relatively reserved individual, but one that had few qualms with being labeled such. Personally I believe an example of an ENTj leader would be King Louis XIV (Sun King) of France

Then I suggest that revise your understanding of what an ENTj is, such as the notion that ENTjs are necessarily "extroverted" in the social-outgoing definition as in MBTI.

Louis XIV: That guy was all Fe and Se with zero Ni. Nothing at all ENTj about him. No ENTj, I daresay, would have built Versailles and set up a system where he had to get up, and go to sleep, at precisely the same hour every day, and have his meals in public.

What makes ENTj a likely type for Augustus, much more so than those individual traits you listed, is the following global charateristics:

- he always took a long-term vision in pursuing his goals, which he did relentlessly - that's a Ni-Se quadra value
- his marriage to Livia is a typical description of ENTj-ISFj marriage - even that people gossiped that she ordered him around, and was seen as a stern and strong-willed figure
- his motivations in destroying his enemies, avenging Caesar's murder, and punishing his own daughter, are all Gamma Fi
- his dislike for obvious flattery and excessive socializing indicate low regard for Fe, so again Gamma
- he acted very proactively in everything, which is a characteristic of EJ temperament

etc etc
05-13-2007, 12:20 AM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

Not really Fe Role. Sounds like [Louis XIV] valued Fe - I'll go with ENFj.

That makes more sense, but the problem with ENFj is that Louis XIV loved a very routine, preset daily schedule, and he loved getting involved in every possible detail of government. ISTj makes more sense than ENFj.
05-13-2007, 12:20 AM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

Not really Fe Role. Sounds like [Louis XIV] valued Fe - I'll go with ENFj.

That makes more sense, but the problem with ENFj is that Louis XIV loved a very routine, preset daily schedule, and he loved getting involved in every possible detail of government. ISTj makes more sense than ENFj.
05-14-2007, 08:25 AM
Expat

King Hussein of Jordan

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ordan_1997.jpg

Longer-term strategic vision. Fairly benevolent monarch, concerned with economic development (without any oil), but ruthless on occasion. Accessible and "democratic" on a person-to-person level, also enjoyed traveling incognito in Europe. According to Wikipedia, liked to do a Dr. Evil impersonation when in meetings with military contractors (emotivist). Had what seemed to be a dual marriage with Queen Noor, who seems ISFj.
05-17-2007, 12:56 PM
Expat

George Romero, creator of the Night of the Living Dead movies

http://www.toxicshock.tv/news/wp-con...rge_romero.jpg

I think ENTj makes perfect sense, although not without some problems.
05-18-2007, 12:44 PM
stevENTj

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Detailed descriptions of a person's external behavior are a window into their functions, but the behavior itself is not the type.

I disagree. Appearance = reality.

I appear EJ to a lot of people but I'm not EJ. :lol:
05-19-2007, 10:20 PM
Exodus

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevENTj

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Detailed descriptions of a person's external behavior are a window into their functions, but the behavior itself is not the type.

I disagree. Appearance = reality.

I appear EJ to a lot of people but I'm not EJ. :lol:

Prove it.
05-31-2007, 09:46 PM
Expat

Camille Paglia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...agliaphoto.jpg
05-31-2007, 09:50 PM
FDG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Camille Paglia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...agliaphoto.jpg

Nooo she has no logic
05-31-2007, 09:56 PM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

Nooo she has no logic

She has lots of Te.

Ok, which type would you suggest?
05-31-2007, 09:57 PM
FDG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

Nooo she has no logic

She has lots of Te.

Ok, which type would you suggest?

ENFj!
05-31-2007, 11:40 PM
Subteigh

Simon Schama, some historian dude
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~lhc/files/...hama_Simon.jpg

Jeffrey Archer, disgraced peer and novelist :P .
http://galleries.lycos.co.uk/d/15818...rey-archer.jpg
06-01-2007, 02:36 AM
discojoe

I feel silly for doing this, but upon further consideration:

C.S. Lewis

http://ic.net/~erasmus/CSL1.JPG
06-01-2007, 04:07 AM
Exodus

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

I feel silly for doing this, but upon further consideration:

C.S. Lewis

http://ic.net/~erasmus/CSL1.JPG

Interesting.
06-01-2007, 09:46 AM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

ENFj!

Ok, that could make sense for Camille Paglia, but I'm still not sure where you see "no logic". Perhaps not from the Ti PoV, but she argues her points with Te and not Fe. Her criticism of Ann Coulter, for instance, is not about Coulter being ideologically wrong or saying wrong things or just being "in for the money" or whatever -- Paglia criticizes Coulter for not making her cases solidly enough in her books and being to careless with facts. Te confidence.

On Simon Schama: I can see that, although I tended to see INTp (but I've never seen him on video, I have to try it). One of his early books, on the French Revolution, Citizens, is essentially a Te-Ni view of the Revolution -- he doesn't give a shit about the "ideological purity"; he remarks how the French monarchy under Louis XVI was already reforming before the revolution; and his "heros" seem to be guys like Turgot (ENTj imo) who were trying to solve the economic issues.

Jeffrey Archer: could be.

CS Lewis: why?
06-01-2007, 10:06 AM
FDG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

ENFj!

Ok, that could make sense for Camille Paglia, but I'm still not sure where you see "no logic". Perhaps not from the Ti PoV, but she argues her points with Te and not Fe. Her criticism of Ann Coulter, for instance, is not about Coulter being ideologically wrong or saying wrong things or just being "in for the money" or whatever -- Paglia criticizes Coulter for not making her cases solidly enough in her books and being to careless with facts. Te confidence.

Uhm, I guess I was referring to other instance, for example when she arguments the basic differences between the man's nature (rationality) and the woman's nature (irrationality) and how men overtook society and placed rationality as its foundation in order to subtly oppress women via the logical implication if women are irrational, if we repress irrationality we will indirectly repress them; I know at least 2 INFps that take this stance of her very seriously and try to propagate it; in my opinion, the societal rationality Paglia speaks about is a representation of Te, and the irrationality is Fe, not Ti and Fi.
06-01-2007, 10:39 AM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

Uhm, I guess I was referring to other instance, for example when she arguments the basic differences between the man's nature (rationality) and the woman's nature (irrationality) and how men overtook society and placed rationality as its foundation in order to subtly oppress women via the logical implication if women are irrational, if we repress irrationality we will indirectly repress them; I know at least 2 INFps that take this stance of her very seriously and try to propagate it; in my opinion, the societal rationality Paglia speaks about is a representation of Te, and the irrationality is Fe, not Ti and Fi.

Ah. I think her views of man's and woman's natures and their influences on society are more complicated than that, but for typing her I focused not on particular theories but on interviews and articles on ongoing events. Anyway, yes, her "irrationality" would be more Fe, which goes against ENFj since, despite being a woman, she actually likes the "male" Te rationality.

Anyway, I'm a bit biased because I had a brief e-mail exchange ages ago on the emperor Diocletian with her :o

Here are some cases for ENTj:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camille Paglia

"I don't like all this hand-holding where people have groups and say how fabulous they all are. And what the gay people do now is think 'we are the cool people now in high school. we're cool because we're gay.' I hate that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

She was appointed as my faculty advisor in her first term. I went in for my advisorial visit and she was entirely herself, talking very fast about many things I knew nothing about. I ran in fear. Alas, I was too puzzled to take any of her classes, which seemed to be full of very sophisticated people from LA and from New York.[31]

– Professor Mark W. Edmundson

"She was thought of as peculiar. She was so full of excitement and so intense. She would light one cigarette and then forget about it and light another, so she was waving two cigarettes. I think people took her quite lightly, she was thought of as eccentric."

– Author Heidi Schmidt, former student of Paglia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camille Paglia

She was a student when I was at my first job at Bennington in the 70s, and I saw her up close. And I know what she knows. I mean, she transferred from there, to Yale, and her background in anything is absolutely minimal. She started a career in philosophy, abandoned that, and has been taken as this sort of major philosophical thinker by people in literary criticism. But has she ever made any exploration of science? For her to be dismissing biology, and to say gender is totally socially constructed — where are her readings, her studies? It's all gameplay, wordplay, and her work is utterly pernicious, a total dead-end."[32]

– Paglia, on poststructuralist feminist Judith Butler

I'll stick with Ni-ENTj for the moment :o
06-01-2007, 11:42 AM
implied

god, same idea on paglia. i nearly suggested her to you in an PM, expat. have always loved her!
06-01-2007, 11:46 AM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by implied

have always loved her!

And she loves me -- she called my comments on longer-term trends in the Roman Empire "a lucid overview". :lol: :Fe:
06-01-2007, 03:32 PM
discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

CS Lewis: why?

I don't know--it's just what I FEEL. Go here and read some quotes, and you might FEEL it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis

This is the terrible fix we are in. If the universe is not governed by an absolute goodness, then all our efforts are in the long run hopeless. But if it is, then we are making ourselves enemies to that goodness every day, and are not in the least likely to do any better tomorrow, and so our case is hopeless again....God is the only comfort, He is also the supreme terror: the thing we most need and the thing we most want to hide from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis

The most dangerous thing you can do is to take any one impulse of your own nature and set it up as the thing you ought to follow at all costs. There's not one of them which won't make us into devils if we set it up as an absolute guide. You might think love of humanity in general was safe, but it isn't. If you leave out justice you'll find yourself breaking agreements and faking evidence in trials "for the sake of humanity" and become in the end a cruel and treacherous man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis

I thought I saw how stories of this kind could steal past a certain inhibition which had paralysed much of my own religion in childhood. Why did one find it so hard to feel as one was told one ought to feel about God or about the sufferings of Christ? I thought the chief reason was that one was told one ought to. An obligation to feel can freeze feelings. And reverence itself did harm. The whole subject was associated with lowered voices; almost as if it were something medical. But supposing that by casting all these things into an imaginary world, stripping them of their stained-glass and Sunday school associations, one could make them for the first time appear in their real potency? Could one not thus steal past those watchful dragons? I thought one could.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis

"But what does it all mean?" asked Susan when they were somewhat calmer. — "It means," said Aslan, "that though the Witch knew the Deep Magic, there is a magic deeper still which she did not know. Her knowledge goes back only to the dawn of Time. But if she could have looked a little further back, into the stillness and the darkness before Time dawned, she would have read there a different incantation. She would have known that when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis

"Perhaps you will get some idea of it if you think like this. You may have been in a room in which there was a window that looked out on a lovely bay of the sea or a green valley that wound away amoung the mountains. And in the wall of that room opposite to the glass there may have been a looking glass. And the sea in the mirror, or the valley in the mirror, were in one sense just the same as the real ones: yet at the same time they were somehow different — deeper, more wonderful, more like places in a story: in a story you have never heard but very much want to know. The difference between the old Narnia and the new Narnia was like that. The new one was a deeper country: every rock and flower and blade of grass looked like it meant more. I can't describe it any better than that: if you ever get there you will know what I mean. It was the unicorn who summed up what everyone was feeling. He stamped his right fore-hoof on the ground and neighed, and then cried: "I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now. The reason why we loved the old Narnia so much is because it sometimes looked a little like this. Bree-hee-hee! Come further up, come further in!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis

The Value of myth is that it takes all the things you know and restores to them the rich significance which has been hidden by the veil of familiarity.

You can almost hear Jor'El saying these lines.

Also, Lewis was a very LOUD person who went to a pub every Tuesday with Tolkien and SHOUTED AT HIM until he was thrown out into the street.
06-01-2007, 04:01 PM
Khamelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

CS Lewis: why?

I don't know--it's just what I FEEL. Go here and read some quotes, and you might FEEL it too.

You can almost hear Jor'El saying these lines.

Also, Lewis was a very LOUD person who went to a pub every Tuesday with Tolkien and SHOUTED AT HIM until he was thrown out into the street.

C.S. Lewis is very pleasant for me to read because he words everything so that it clicks with me verrrry well. And sticks more than another authors words.

In support of the ENTj theory...Te...
06-01-2007, 04:33 PM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

You can almost hear Jor'El saying these lines.

Hmm, I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Also, Lewis was a very LOUD person who went to a pub every Tuesday with Tolkien and SHOUTED AT HIM until he was thrown out into the street.

Ok, so :Se: quadra value -- and those quotes suggest :Ni: , and his books, :Fi: -- but :Te: ? I think he's more likely another Gamma than ENTj, but I can't make a strong case either way. That is what I think and feel.
06-01-2007, 04:39 PM
Quirk Satellite Div.

Alot of CS Lewis's quotes seem very feeling. He doesn't seem to provide claims, facts, or opinions on subjects as much as trying to demonstrate how he can feel things far away from the norm. His quotes seem very Ni-like in this regard. In some ways, I can see a Te PoLR in his ideas; he doesn't really try to explain his Christian belief rather trying to prove it using the ideas of "good & evil". I am not too familiar with his works, but I am rather sure he is some sort of NF.
06-01-2007, 04:42 PM
discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quirk Satellite Div.

Alot of CS Lewis's quotes seem very feeling. He doesn't seem to provide claims, facts, or opinions on subjects as much as trying to demonstrate how he can feel things far away from the norm. His quotes seem very Ni-like in this regard. In some ways, I can see a Te PoLR in his ideas; he doesn't really try to explain his Christian belief rather trying to prove it using the ideas of "good & evil". I am not too familiar with his works, but I am rather sure he is some sort of NF.

This is way off the mark. He explains himself about as well as anyone can.
06-01-2007, 04:44 PM
discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

You can almost hear Jor'El saying these lines.

Hmm, I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Also, Lewis was a very LOUD person who went to a pub every Tuesday with Tolkien and SHOUTED AT HIM until he was thrown out into the street.

Ok, so :Se: quadra value -- and those quotes suggest :Ni: , and his books, :Fi: -- but :Te: ? I think he's more likely another Gamma than ENTj, but I can't make a strong case either way. That is what I think and feel.

His books are basically layman's guides for why the average person should become a Christian. I see lots of :Te: .
06-01-2007, 07:30 PM
discojoe

Expat and Lewis write very similarly. Look at the descriptions Expat wrote in the Te views thread.
06-02-2007, 12:59 AM
Quirk Satellite Div.

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quirk Satellite Div.

Alot of CS Lewis's quotes seem very feeling. He doesn't seem to provide claims, facts, or opinions on subjects as much as trying to demonstrate how he can feel things far away from the norm. His quotes seem very Ni-like in this regard. In some ways, I can see a Te PoLR in his ideas; he doesn't really try to explain his Christian belief rather trying to prove it using the ideas of "good & evil". I am not too familiar with his works, but I am rather sure he is some sort of NF.

This is way off the mark. He explains himself about as well as anyone can.

Yeah, now thinking about it, I made a mistake on :Te: PoLR, but I don't necessarily see a strong or weak :Te: in the quotes you provided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by discoejoe

His books are basically layman's guides for why the average person should become a Christian. I see lots of Extraverted Thinking .

Could you perhaps give a better online example illustrating this than the information provided on Wikipedia? Just because he tries to convince people to believe in something or do something doesn't mean his dominant function is :Te:. There are :Ti: people who can be rather insistent in giving instructions and guides. I considered in the past that he might be ENTj because he VI's so strongly as one, but I never looked into it further. I guess I can see EJ behavior.
07-05-2007, 09:43 PM
Exodus

.
07-06-2007, 02:47 AM
implied

http://www.designboom.com/eng/interview/adams/3.gif

dilbert, at least in the animated dilbert cartoon (in the cartoon strip he seems more INTp.) dogbert may be ISTp in the cartoon, he's very supervisory of dilbert.
07-13-2007, 10:17 AM
Expat

Tony Leon, South African politician, until recently the leader of the opposition

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...x-TonyLeon.jpg
07-19-2007, 04:19 PM
FDG

Has this already been posted? David Miliband:

http://www.daelnet.co.uk/images/news..._miliband3.jpg
07-19-2007, 07:43 PM
Ezra

Re: Some possible ENTjs (reboot)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Augustus, first Roman Emperor

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...x-Aug11_01.jpg

After having studied him, his works and his achievements, I am certain that he is ESTj. Most likely 1w9.
07-22-2007, 12:22 PM
Expat

ESTj is not absurd, except that descriptions of his behavior always suggest low Si.

Anyway, he had his own daugher and granddaughter exiled for life for immoral behavior. That is far more a Gamma than Delta thing to do.
07-23-2007, 11:08 PM
astralsilky

Amy Smart

http://www.moongirl.com/images/amy_smart5.jpg http://www.buddytv.com/articles/Smit...mart_smith.jpg
07-24-2007, 09:15 AM
FDG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Niemeyer
07-24-2007, 01:21 PM
eunice

What about the swimmer Ian Thorpe?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ne_cropped.jpg
http://biografie.leonardo.it/img/bio/i/Ian_Thorpe.jpg
07-24-2007, 01:21 PM
Expat

I've typed Niemeyer as INFp.
07-25-2007, 01:39 AM
eunice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carla

Quote:

Originally Posted by eunice

What about the swimmer Ian Thorpe?

No, Thorpe's not ENTj.

What type do you think he is?
07-25-2007, 05:37 AM
FDG

Expat: oh. Why? I am not that much into architecture so you're probably right. Ni type anyway.

Ian Thorpe could be ENTj in my opinion. Or ENFj.
07-25-2007, 06:56 AM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

Expat: oh. Why? I am not that much into architecture so you're probably right. Ni type anyway.
.

He doesn't give the slightest damn about the functionality of his buildings, and he tends to treat those who raise the issue with contempt.
07-26-2007, 01:34 PM
astralsilky

Quote:

Originally Posted by eunice

What about the swimmer Ian Thorpe?

yes

100%
07-26-2007, 01:35 PM
astralsilky

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Niemeyer

nope
07-26-2007, 08:36 PM
Logos

Quote:

Originally Posted by eunice

What about the swimmer Ian Thorpe?

Are you trying to find a swimmer dual? I seem to recall similar posts about "what type is this swimmer" when you thought you were INFj.
07-27-2007, 05:11 PM
eunice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logos

Quote:

Originally Posted by eunice

What about the swimmer Ian Thorpe?

Are you trying to find a swimmer dual? I seem to recall similar posts about "what type is this swimmer" when you thought you were INFj.

:lol: Definitely not. I don't find him attractive anyway.
07-29-2007, 01:03 PM
FDG

Alessandro Gassman + Cristiano Ronaldo

http://vlod.files.wordpress.com/2007...do-gassman.jpg
08-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Expat

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...x-Mr_Burns.png
08-02-2007, 03:51 PM
Gilly

I can see it, but...isn't Smithers SEI?
08-02-2007, 04:01 PM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilly

I can see it, but...isn't Smithers SEI?

LII I think. Or perhaps EII.
08-15-2007, 03:17 PM
Joy

Julian Mcmahon

http://www.7mpictures.com/inside/scr...ianmcmahon.jpg

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEJCykcAqRU[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XY6JOxE-dk
09-01-2007, 04:10 PM
Subteigh

What about Rosamund Pike? She played one of the Bond villains in Die Another Day.

http://fan2jp15.blog.jeuxvideo.com/i...1176763195.jpg
09-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Expat

I just watched a 7-min video interview with her, and I don't think so. I think she's INFj.
09-01-2007, 04:29 PM
Subteigh

Hmm, yes, I just saw the start of the first video on youtube :P - she's very different to the characters she plays in films.
09-01-2007, 04:38 PM
discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

I just watched a 7-min video interview with her, and I don't think so. I think she's INFj.

Owned.
09-01-2007, 04:45 PM
Expat

Commenting on her character in Fracture, she says something like "a woman who prioritizes her career and success over friends and family - I find that difficult to relate to". I don't think any ENTj woman, or even any Gamma woman, would have said that. I think any Gamma could at least relate to that.

Also, he says that she has to relate to her characters, to find a redeeming quality in them, even if "villains" (and she can't think of them as villains, in order to play them well) -- that is so INFj.
10-30-2007, 11:17 AM
FDG

Evariste Galois

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evariste_Galois

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../a0/Galois.jpg
11-05-2007, 05:09 PM
astralsilky

How about Jaclyn Smith?

http://www.bartcop.com/smith-02.jpg
http://www.divasthesite.com/images/P...clyn_Smith.jpg
11-08-2007, 06:08 PM
Ms. Kensington

http://www.nndb.com/people/910/000044778/TinaFey.gif

Tina Fey-- hot!!
11-09-2007, 04:54 PM
discojoe

Captain Janeway

http://www.pcboe.net/chs/mediacenter/images/Janeway.jpg
11-24-2007, 07:51 AM
eunice

Malcolm Gladwell, author of Blink and The Tipping Point.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVCNfi7YQn8[/youtube]
11-24-2007, 02:42 PM
aestrivex

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Captain Janeway

typical TV mix of different types. if you ask me, she more resembles an ESI/LIE/LSI blend.
11-24-2007, 09:53 PM
Exodus

Yeah, she's probably the hardest character to type on that show, although I think ENFj is the closest.
11-24-2007, 10:17 PM
aestrivex

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

Yeah, she's probably the hardest character to type on that show, although I think ENFj is the closest.

tuvok, belanna torres, and seven of nine are at least equally untypable.
11-24-2007, 11:05 PM
Exodus

Tuvok and 7 are *mostly* consistently Ti leading. As for Belonna, I see reasons for both ISTp and ISTj, but tend to think ISTp. Tom is pretty obviously ENFp.
11-24-2007, 11:16 PM
aestrivex

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

Tuvok and 7 are *mostly* consistently Ti leading. As for Belonna, I see reasons for both ISTp and ISTj, but tend to think ISTp. Tom is pretty obviously ENFp.

i disagree with everything here.

tom is SEE. to me this is obvious.

tuvok is an LSI/SLI mesh. seven is primarily LIE (when acting borg) but the underlying human has aspects of alpha/delta. probably closest to EII/SEI/SLI.

belanna i don't know. she's all over the place.
11-25-2007, 01:01 AM
discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by niffweed17

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Captain Janeway

typical TV mix of different types. if you ask me, she more resembles an ESI/LIE/LSI blend.

It was more of a VI than anything.
11-25-2007, 01:04 AM
aestrivex

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by niffweed17

Quote:

Originally Posted by discojoe

Captain Janeway

typical TV mix of different types. if you ask me, she more resembles an ESI/LIE/LSI blend.

It was more of a VI than anything.

lol.
12-14-2007, 09:49 PM
Expat

Cecil John Rhodes

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ecilRhodes.jpg
12-31-2007, 01:00 PM
FDG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Whymper

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rd_Whymper.jpg
01-20-2008, 11:29 AM
FDG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Heiden

Eric Heiden, one of the most renowed speed-skaters, one of the few able to become a good cross-sporter by becoming a biking champion afterwards, and while he was doing this he studied to become a doctor. He's my role model.
01-22-2008, 03:38 PM
Expat

Yeah, I agree on Perot. I know nothing about Markkula.
03-31-2008, 08:55 AM
FDG

Miguel Indurain: (he has what I'd call one of the typical ENTj-look among some variations)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Indurain_2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indurain

(interesting trivia)

Quote:

Physical advantages

At the top of his career, Miguel Indurain had a physique that was not only superior when compared to average people, but also when compared to his fellow athletes. His blood circulation had the ability to circulate 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute,[1] compared to the average amount of 3-4 litres of an ordinary person and the 5-6 litres of his fellow riders. Also, Indurain's lung capacity was 8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres. In addition, Indurain's resting pulse was as low as 29 BPM, compared to a normal human's 60-80 bpm , which meant his heart would be less strained in the tough mountain stages.[2] His VO2 max was 88 ml/kg/min; in comparison, Lance Armstrong's was 82 ml/kg/min.
05-19-2008, 01:44 PM
implied

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

Miguel Indurain: (he has what I'd call one of the typical ENTj-look among some variations)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Indurain_2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indurain

(interesting trivia)

he has a "typical basque look" but idk about ENTj.
07-12-2008, 03:27 PM
Expat

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifmd95

Charlie Rose could be some sort of Gamma Rational.
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/80827...5397277B4DC33E

Perhaps this woman:
http://www.worldtrademag.com/WT/2006...Feature1_7.jpg
http://www.google.com/search?q=Ellen+Alemany

I think Charlie Rose is ENTj.

I never heard of this woman.

Also, I have a hunch that Laura Bush is ENTj.
07-13-2008, 02:28 AM
eunice

Cristiano Ronaldo: Ni-ENTj

http://www.worldcupjapankorea.com/pl...o_portugal.jpg
07-13-2008, 02:54 AM
Logos

Quote:

Originally Posted by implied

Se dominant imo.

Definitely.
07-13-2008, 04:11 AM
discojoe

Ahh, I see that Expat already posted Thomas Sowell.

*strolls out*
07-13-2008, 04:45 AM
Exodus

Chelsea Handler.

I agree 100% on Milton Friedman; here is a great video where he pretty much owns an IEI (or LII? EIE?) intellectually:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ev_Uph_TLLo
07-13-2008, 05:49 AM
dbmmama

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

I agree 100% on Milton Friedman; here is a great video where he pretty much owns an IEI (or LII? EIE?) intellectually:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ev_Uph_TLLo

this guy is fucking awesome! this is my hubby and i's political views...
07-13-2008, 06:05 AM
FDG

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamourama

yeah, I thought ESFp.

I don't know...he has features similar to some ENTj-Ni.

But perhaps his behavior is one of a Se dominant. Being an ass isn't type related though :lol:
02-23-2009, 01:04 PM
1981slater

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDG

Miguel Indurain: (he has what I'd call one of the typical ENTj-look among some variations)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indurain

(interesting trivia)

I'd say Miguel Induráin is ISTp :Si: subtype, strong as well as mild and not very outspoken, but...

An ENTj :Te: subtype: Prince Philip of Spain

http://cybereuskadi.com/files/2008/0...ipe-felipe.JPG

Prince Philip (ENTj :Te:) and Princess Letizia (ISFj :Fi:):

http://archivo.eluniverso.com/2007/0...a150005000.jpg
10-14-2014, 04:27 PM
Subteigh

I think
Quentin Letts - some British journalist / 'journalist'

http://s28.postimg.org/gyh384ut9/48500056_4.jpg
08-07-2015, 11:29 PM
Subteigh

Bettany Hughes - historian

http://s13.postimg.org/883pff9fr/bet...es_470x493.png

(I thought something had been posted before..?)
05-07-2016, 08:41 PM
Subteigh

Mary Beard - historian

https://i.imgur.com/VliEy4O.jpg

:p I hope I haven't got an excessive bias for typing historians LIE.
05-07-2016, 09:07 PM
Exodus

Bruce Schneier, computer security expert

https://www.resilientsystems.com/wp-...50x348-min.jpg

Brian Conrad, mathematician

http://mathematics.stanford.edu/wp-c...t_original.jpg

Known for his insane work ethic. Helped prove the Modularity Theorem, a generalization of Wiles' result which implied Fermat's Last Theorem.

Mark Kermode, film critic

https://files.list.co.uk/images/2010...-LST069602.jpg

Matt Stone, cocreator of South Park

http://a1.files.biography.com/image/...k5OTg3MjEz.jpg

Quentin Tarantino

http://cdn.miramax.com/media/_versio..._square_md.jpg

They all have some similarities - sort of aggressive (or obnoxious :p) and iconoclastic, obsessed with their work to varying degrees, known for calling people out and not holding back when it comes to giving their opinions.
09-30-2016, 04:44 PM
Subteigh

Robert Peston, maybe.
02-07-2018, 05:51 PM
Subteigh

Victoria Coren Mitchell, maybe

https://i.imgur.com/cOtWTHr.jpg
05-22-2018, 09:16 PM
MrsTortilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Conan O'Brien and Brzezinski even VI similarly in those pictures :o

Ummm hmm! this could partially explain my attraction to Conan O'Brien.
05-25-2018, 08:21 AM
Zero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

I first got the idea of ENTj for her as I listened to her running commentary in the Contact DVD - that is an ENTj speaking, IMO.

Could you post a link to that?
04-08-2019, 10:02 PM
Kill4Me

David Parker Ray...LIE-Ni 8w9 sp/sx

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...mage/image.jpg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/im.../killers_7.jpg

https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/lie-ni/
08-02-2022, 09:19 AM
Bethany

I need some famous LIE female role models..

so far I’m thinking:
Lena Headey
Hayley Atwell(?)
09-15-2022, 01:24 AM
get R

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ArHTK6FOxQM
10-10-2022, 09:18 PM
blaecaedre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3JMPOD-Hzg
Inger Støjberg - Danish politician affiliated with the center-right
10-21-2022, 05:06 PM
blaecaedre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MJuDUVvtNw
Theresa Scavenius

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