Differences between ENTp-ILE and ENTj-LIE

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Originally Posted by Mariella

Somehow this turned into the funniest current thread. Although I'm afraid you'll scare off the new guy!

Don't be scared, new poster!

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ehh, i dont like forums much anyways. I'd much rather talk to people in person.

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Originally Posted by aixelsyd

Yeah, forums just don't do it and compromises on spontaneity due to limited communication (and I strongly agree with those who push emphasis on body communication...something you don't get here coupled with (at least me) feeling robotic and so coming off as such) but they are a cheap and easy way to socialize at your convenience.

You're prolly better off reading descriptions on the Wiki or whatever, though giving a gist to your IRL public behavior or whatever and things giving a comprehensive picture of yourself might be better than us giving half-assed descriptions that probably don't make sufficient sense unless we could get you to crawl into our heads and see exactly what we mean by the words we say.

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I would describe myself but my self-concept is probably more geared towards what an ILE is like anyways so it would be useless.

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Originally Posted by Aleksei

I have not met an LIE 7 in my life other than FDG (assuming he is LIE).

You're not being too brash, don't worry. I can get a lot worse. ;)

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It'd be more likely for my E-type to be wrong rather than my socionics type. However, they're both likely to be right. If you check out some non stereotypical type 7 descriptions, there's nothing incompatible with a EJ type.

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Originally Posted by FDG

It'd be more likely for my E-type to be wrong rather than my socionics type. However, they're both likely to be right. If you check out some non stereotypical type 7 descriptions, there's nothing incompatible with a EJ type.

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Or enneagram types could be completely made up.

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Originally Posted by itdoesntmatter

Or enneagram types could be completely made up.

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maybe. It's probably not a good idea to use Enneagram to make an argument for/against a type seeing how it's another theoretical typology system all together

I just feel like enneagram is a trivial system altogether. It doesn't have much of a practical use and it doesn't really matter what your type is. Its just another system for people to fret over. We have a hard enough time with converting types from MBTI to socionics and then we have enneatypes to just screw everything up. It is the least scientific typology and it hardly converts over into any of the other systems.

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Originally Posted by itdoesntmatter

I just feel like enneagram is a trivial system altogether. It doesn't have much of a practical use and it doesn't really matter what your type is. Its just another system for people to fret over. We have a hard enough time with converting types from MBTI to socionics and then we have enneatypes to just screw everything up. It is the least scientific typology and it hardly converts over into any of the other systems.

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I used to think it was trivial too; it just seemed like types were defined by specific external characteristics and didn't really bother to look at what truly goes on inside a person. But once you figure out what enneagram actually tries to define, you'll find that it's a really powerful tool when understanding people, moreso than Socionics in several ways.

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Originally Posted by Galen

I used to think it was trivial too; it just seemed like types were defined by specific external characteristics and didn't really bother to look at what truly goes on inside a person. But once you figure out what enneagram actually tries to define, you'll find that it's a really powerful tool when understanding people, moreso than Socionics in several ways.

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Yeah it definitely looks at a different side of humans then socionics does. thats for sure.

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Originally Posted by FDG

It'd be more likely for my E-type to be wrong rather than my socionics type. However, they're both likely to be right. If you check out some non stereotypical type 7 descriptions, there's nothing incompatible with a EJ type.

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No no no, it's not EJ that seems less than compatible with 7, it's Te-leading. Fe-leading can easily lead to 7-like behavior.

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Originally Posted by Ashton2

I'd probably estimate 7 as the most common enneatype for LIE.

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Why? How? I'm frankly having a lot of trouble seeing how Te-leading with Ni auxiliary would be compatible with a 7 motivation, in any Jungian typology system whatsoever. I'm not saying it's impossible (I've seen ENTJ SLE 7s, though no LIE 7s before FDG), but most likely? What?

That sounds a lot more like Enneagram 3 than 7. To the extent that it's Enneagram-related it basically says that LIEs will go where their work is more likely to be appreciated.

On football Saturdays, I park cars in my yard. I can typically park about 36 cars at $40-$60/car during a game. It’s a cash business and I like to talk to people, so it’s a win-win.

I park my own car on the street so I can sell a spot in my driveway, and then, when the yard is full, I can sell someone my parking space in the street. Lol. I don’t know if that’s exactly legal, but none of the buyers have ever complained.

Today, after a very long day of raising and lowering and raising prices (it’s all about charging what the customer can pay), I was beat and was leaning on my parking sign, trying to decide if I wanted the hassle of selling my street space, when an ILE with his posse walked by and said, disparagingly, “I see they have you out here late with that sign.”

I thought, “No, dude. I own the lot.”

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

On football Saturdays, I park cars in my yard. I can typically park about 36 cars at $40-$60/car during a game. It’s a cash business and I like to talk to people, so it’s a win-win.

I park my own car on the street so I can sell a spot in my driveway, and then, when the yard is full, I can sell someone my parking space in the street. Lol. I don’t know if that’s exactly legal, but none of the buyers have ever complained.

Today, after a very long day of raising and lowering and raising prices (it’s all about charging what the customer can pay), I was beat and was leaning on my parking sign, trying to decide if I wanted the hassle of selling my street space, when an ILE with his posse walked by and said, disparagingly, “I see they have you out here late with that sign.�

I thought, “No, dude. I own the lot.�

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Doesn't that just make it worse?

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Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

Doesn't that just make it worse?

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Worse in what sense?

Is it worse because it’s an obligation that I can’t evade, or worse for some other reason?

Amazing, people who grab hose sized stampedes of orbital earth gravity detonating wallpapers of all fiery glory and a sporting firebrand.

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Worse in what sense?

Is it worse because it’s an obligation that I can’t evade, or worse for some other reason?

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Why do you think the ILE think badly of what you were doing? The only answer that really comes to my mind is that you were wasting the evening trying to squeeze money out of people rather than doing something better with your time, like walking and socializing with your friends. So a response like I own the lot would, I imagine, make the ILE think worse of you, because this would seem to make your use of time more voluntary than if you just needed the wage someone was paying you to do it.

Both can exhibit the other's column but not nearly as much:

ILE vs LIE

experimenter vs producer
detached vs engaged
input vs output
freedom vs control
laissez-faire vs dictate
observe vs influence
lecture vs communicate
eyes-wide-open vs fingers-on-everything
cursory vs tunnel-vision
elitist vs competitive
subvert vs make-an-example
don't-trust-what-I-know vs know-what-I-know
strategic vs tactical
aloof vs enigmatic
lone-wolf vs leader-of-the-pack

a.k.a. I/O

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Originally Posted by Rebelondeck

Both can exhibit the other's column but not nearly as much:

ILE vs LIE

experimenter vs producer
detached vs engaged
input vs output
freedom vs control
laissez-faire vs dictate
observe vs influence
lecture vs communicate
eyes-wide-open vs fingers-on-everything
cursory vs tunnel-vision
elitist vs competitive
subvert vs make-an-example
don't-trust-what-I-know vs know-what-I-know
strategic vs tactical
aloof vs enigmatic
lone-wolf vs leader-of-the-pack

a.k.a. I/O

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I was wondering about these two.

Wouldn't the LIE be the lecturer and the ILE be the communicator? Since LIE is declaring and ILE is asking.

Also, how is an ILE elitist?

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

I was wondering about these two.

Wouldn't the LIE be the lecturer and the ILE be the communicator? Since LIE is declaring and ILE is asking.

Also, how is an ILE elitist?

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let's go, another good excuse to talk about the talanov functions.

Alright so ILE's asking(questinism) is Qi, LIE's declaritivness is De.

Qi is: " self-doubt and a tendency to frequent doubts and hesitations in their assessments and when choosing a solution; excessive self-criticism, lack of self-confidence and assertiveness; an emphatically painful attitude towards any injustice, individualism, that is, rejection from the hierarchy, from the indivisible by the individual and perceived critically, but imposed from the outside and mandatory collective activities and values"

And De is: "hypertension; optimism and a penchant for fun and laughter; circumlocution; resistance to prolonged monotonous intensive loads (such as marathon run); tolerance and indecision; gullibility and disposition towards people, aspiration for rapprochement with them on a short distance; suggestibility; quickness and benevolent indecisiveness; self-confidence and arrogance (up to the gait "belly forward"); often - impulsive to the possible consequences of impulsive actions, which leads to risky actions; stake in any activity on the "thick", that is, on the quantity, rather than on the perfectionist pickiness to quality; increased "affirmative" speech style"

So to answer your questions, ILE would typically not be an elitist(though arguably neither would LIE). And for your first question "De subjects prefer to speak (hyperactivation of the left anterior speech zones) rather than listen (underactivation of the temporal zones).", so ya your right LIE lecturer ILE communicator.

Edit: Though i will note these functions aren't super tied to the type, just more leanings, I know personally I'm De not Qi dominant despite being an ILE.

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elitist
relating to or supporting the view that a society or system should be led by an elite

subvert
undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution)

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So that there exists better ways if you just keep digging?

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

....Wouldn't the LIE be the lecturer and the ILE be the communicator? Since LIE is declaring and ILE is asking.

Also, how is an ILE elitist?

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LIE's can lecture but ILEs seem to do it all the time because of their detached natures which gives them more of a distant feel. Ejs tend to have better tools for two-way communication although they may hold their cards tight whereas ILEs tend to show all their cards from on-high (like Moses) although in a sort of tentative, reserved fashion. ILEs are not nearly as good at faking interest and attitudes as are LIEs. Aren't you a smoother two-way communicator than most IEEs - and I would guess probably better than the other three Eps.

a.k.a. I/O