How can you how tell them apart?
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How can you how tell them apart?
ENTps are likely to make a more playful, "childish" impression; ENTjs, even when trying to be friendly or jokey, are going to make altogether a more somber, restrained impression.
Thanks
Are you the woman on the picture?
Nope.
for me...
ENTp = fun, interresting, "check this shit out! wouldn't it be cool if..."
-online I tend to feel these emotions behind what they say :) , :wink:, and :P
ENTj = serrious, restrained, "here's a bunch of facts and statistics... now let's all be productive!"
-online ENTj's feel like this :? and :8* to me
pretty much how Expat put it...
also I've noticed that the ENTj's on here seem to put alot of stock in being interpreted correctly. They get upset when people read them wrong and go through the effort to point it out when people haven't understood what they've said. They will often make the attempt to clear those thing up to the point of become frustrated and having to say things like "let's agree to disagree" or "your obviously just not capable of understanding what I mean"
ENTps for the most part don't seem to give a shit either way. Like they just want to say their goofy ideas and theory's and don't look back to see if anybody's actually understood what they said or meant. If somebody stops them to ask, if they even notice, they'll sort of make a game out of it at times. Playing on the fact that the other person doesn't get them.
Because of this I think ENTj's can come off as much better teachers than ENTps can. An ENTj will generally take the time to explain himself or herself and answer your questions. An ENTp is long gone in another world usually by the time you get around to questioning them and don't really offer up much in the way of explanations. If anything you're likely just to set them off on a totally different tangent that leaves you going "ahhhh?"
Both these descriptions are horrible steriotypes of course and most likely relationship dependant (other's of a different type probably see it in a totally different way) so don't pay any attention to them :P
The Death Stare. ENTps have it, ENTjs don't.
ILEs often appear naive, trusting, and carefree.
LIEs are more often restrained, skeptical of others' intentions, and give off a more "serious" vibe.
From this thread, it would appear that ENTjs are always super-serious, never laid-back, and never able to relax. While in general they seem more serious than ENTps, I don't think they're always that way.
In fact, ENTjs like to joke sometimes. Also, I've found that they can be quite willing to relax and chat with friends; generally, they're on top of what needs to get done, so they can afford to relax awhile; they know when they need to get back to work.
Hence, one might easily mis-type ENTjs as ENps; however, after getting to know them, one finds that they value discipline very highly and set quite standards for themselves and others.
One thing about ENTjs: They create the impression of "having it all together." Also, their solutions to problems are very situational and focused to the problem at hand; they don't have much of an agenda except that they demand sound logic, discipline, and high standards. Their thinking tends to lead toward solving specific problems and staying focused, and is generally highly relevant, whereas ENTp's thinking tends to lead one to consider completely different paths.
One other thing...ENTjs are often in their element when coordinating the activities of others and telling them what to do. Their leadership still emphasizes fairness, order, discipline, and "doing more."
ENTp's leadership style is very different. They like to delegate operational details and focus more on ideas. They may be good spokespeople and good at presenting their vision of what should be done, but they don't crave the coordinating of other people's activities as much.
It's not about "never" etc, it's about how ENTjs are in relation to ENTps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
Yeah, it's all supposed to be interpreted as relative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
So true. ENTjs have the Paranoia Eye Swing. (far worse...)Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Really? Who does that? :o :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
Expat puts in a lot of effort towards clearing up misunderstandings etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
He also attempts to point out his reasonings upon request.
Yeah, I remember when I used to do that... you know, before I realized that the people here would attempt to drag me into 7 hour debates if I began answering their posts point by point. No matter what I'd say, they'd get further away from my main point trying to argue details that are barely relevant to what I was trying to say and often based on miscommunications. I must admit that it's often tempting to answer their initial responses to something I've said by explaining my reasoning or clearing up communications, but I've learned from experience for a handful of them, this is entirely useless as no amount of explaining will get them to stop trying to engage me in a debate, and that they do not even wish to understand the actual point of what I'm saying because they'd rather use this forum as the porn for their mental masturbation. So now, unless I'm having a bad/off day, I just let them go look for stimulation from someone else and think what they want to about my reasoning. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by anndelise
I have no prob telling them apart. I feel that it's harder to tell ESTj and ENTj apart, especially when u don't really know them well and their :Te: always get in the way.
They only last so long because you refuse to explain yourself sufficiently, thereby forcing us to repeatedly ask for clarification and refute the new nonsense that you manage to come up with each time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
So don't blame it on us.
ESTj - makes more the impression of a rounded-up, "normal" personQuote:
Originally Posted by eunice
ENTj - makes the impression of somewhat "in the clouds", less "normal"
I think telling apart between entp and entj is relatively easy. Eunice is right in stating that LIE and LSE are harder to tell apart. Also, IEE and ILE would also be decipher between the two. For example, The reason is because their dominant functions are identical and may overcloud their secondary one. Comparatives are the hardest to tell apart and maybe look-alikes, but not quasi-identicals. J and P is a big difference unlike MBTI and changes around all the functons and orders resulting in very little similarity.
ENTps will rarely look anybody in the eye; they tend to stare off into their vision of what could be.
ENTjs look everybody in the eye whenever they talk to them, unless they specifically desire to express emotional distance. Their eyes seem to shift very quickly in this regard; they often don't even move their heads, or only move them very slightly.
From these characteristics, it's very easy to tell ENTjs and ENTps apart from a VI standpoint.
What's the best way to tell ENTp from ENTj in a work environment? I think I have to work with a person who is one of those but so far I can't tell which. I would guess ENTp but I'm not sure. Any quick hints to tell the difference?
Edit: Very "driven" i.e. works very fast and can context-switch easily. Always on the move. Goes to a meeting, comes back and works very fast for 15 minutes then goes to another meeting and comes back and again switches easily to new task and works very fast. Often when wants something from people goes to them and small talks with them a bit (smiling and joking) but then quickly changes tone to official to request what they were after. Is somehow very official and careful of what to call people (never ever uses nicknames etc). Uses a very "respecting" tone with people at least in official situations. Is somewhat official in talking style and doesn't really talk on too personal level. Uses phone a lot and easily. Can organize contacts and people well but is also technologically competent. Can seen a bit distant every now and then and eyes wonder around all the time when not concentrated on a task. When runs a meeting is VERY fast (to the point that I can't follow what happens and is decided) and quite confrontational when challenged. Often before a meeting greets people with smile and welcomes them etc but when the meeting ends can "forget" about manners and just suddenly leave and confuse people a bit with this. Sort of "hot"-"cold" behavior.
Bump. I need some answer here too :) ISTp vs INTp thread seems the to get all the attention :)
I got more of an ENTP vibe from this description. They seem more distracted and scattered, where as the ENTJ is more focused, does things in order and likes to complete each task, and tends to be more polite. Also, I think ENTPs would be more confrontational when challenged, versus ENTJ, in my experience. The ENTJ will argue logically but seems kinda calmer to me, like they're focused on the idea but aren't really taking it personally if you disagree. And ENTPs can get more emotional if you disagree, and so can get more upset about it.
But that's just from ENTPs and ENTJs I know irl, so it could be different for individuals. But my guess would be ENTP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
Yeah, my thought is ENTp too.
Sounds ENTp.Quote:
Often when wants something from people goes to them and small talks with them a bit (smiling and joking) but then quickly changes tone to official to request what they were after.
Wait, small-talk that isn't personal? If you mean he doesn't get into personal feelings and stuff, then this part could be telling about his attitude toward Fi.Quote:
Is somehow very official and careful of what to call people (never ever uses nicknames etc). Uses a very "respecting" tone with people at least in official situations. Is somewhat official in talking style and doesn't really talk on too personal level.
Very clearly ENTj. I BET you have placed the part "SCATTERED WIEV" on purpose because it is cited exactly the same way in an ENTj type description.
I was initially thinking ENTp actually. What made me suspicious was the seeming capability to sustain effectiveness over a long period of time. Though I have yet to verify whether that in fact is the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
I thought the scattered view would be more Ne? I didn't take it from ENTj description :) It is like when you sit with this person eating or something their eyes seem to move around and not focus anywhere (it is hard to catch them ever looking at you for example) but when they concentrate on some task they seem very focused.
Also I have yet to define my relations with the person but I don't think it is that good in the end. Even though so far it has been quite ok and positive I have a sense that it could deteriorate quickly if something goes wrong. Our work habbits are a bit different and I'm a bit afraid that it bugs that person somewhat but we have yet to be in a spot where it really matters so it hasn't caused any real problems. I would definately prefer a sort of slower pace and thinking things through a bit more thoroughly and discussing a bit more instead of just rushing through things.
One thing is, the person doesn't seem to understand how it can take so long for me to do some tasks. E.g. I'm asked to do a task A. What the person would do is to start it right away and finish it quickly. Perhaps in 30 minutes after receiving the task. I usually have planned to do task B and C already so I schedule task A somewhere, let's say after task B. Then I go on with task B and only later move on to task A. In addition I generally want to do a thorough work so I try to understand what task A is really about and how it relates to the big picture before I do it so it might take me quite a while before task A is finished. Perhaps the whole day. Occasionally I just can't seem to be able to focus on that particular task at all that day and I do something else instead and schedule that task to next day or something to find the needed motivation. The person in question seems to have problems understanding this process. We approach things very differently. In the long run this might become a problem. I don't want to be told "stop everything you are doing and do this in 30 minutes" when imho there is no hurry. I like to keep a steady but slow pace and understand what I'm doing and if needed study more about the context before making any big decisions and not have these kind of "rush hours" where I don't really understand what I'm doing.
Why aren't you contributing in my ESTp vs ESFp thread btw :)
http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...d73848ee4d282a
This person...might actually be ESTp. I'll have to get a bit more data.
What are some practical differences between the ENTp and the ENTj?
Most notable to me is the quadra difference. ENTps are goofier and more into exotic ideas (my friend is working on a pausable hourglass right now using special sand). ENTjs can have a funny side but they usually switch over to working mode at some point. (The ENTj I know best is prodding me to get started on a project that isn't due until March, for instance.) ENTps are more relaxed, I'd say. But ENTjs, more dependable.
That's insane. What is his industry/business?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elro
Are you ENTp?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elro
They are completely obvious.
entp:
focus on ideas when thinking of real world matters
scientific underlining
strange thinking(entp quote: "It's weird watching people drive cars. They seem inhuman, and out of touch with the world around them. Almost lifeless" This is an intuitive way of looking at people in cars, it's somewhat mystical.)
more idealogically oriented
enjoy superficiality in a social sense and enjoy people for the sake of it, but enjoys some sense of group order and ethic
probably have a less defined criteria of people they can like/dislike
entj:
focus on real world matters in a practical sense
focus on work including methods, time spent, cost-benefit, safety
more oriented towards facts, figures, other datas and history
like people who are realistic and have foresight
probably have a defined, clear criteria of their sort of people and what they expect from individuals
Those are a few key differences. Think of two scientists- One a loose, fun, even bohemian individual. The other a formal, restrained individual who knows what the hell he is talking about and doesn't explore things openly. Regardless of ideology(their political views may reflect otherwise) an ENTp is less socially conservative and the ENTj more.
This opens up a new question for me. What you've described sounds like ESTj. So what are the differences between ESTj and ENTj?Quote:
Originally Posted by heath
ENTjs take more risks in any field they work in as they can predict outcomes better and trust their predictions. ESTj tend to take less risks because they like sure outcomes. ENTjs make great bankers and investors, ESTjs make great doctors/surgeons and it makes sense if you consider what I said. Both are great businesspeople. ENTj also care less about professional appearances, but do understand formality. It's really a quadra thing. Expat talks often of how he likes things to work, but not in a Delta ST way. Delta ST likes to keep things working mechanically and keep their cars nice, clean, and in great working condition. This can be applied to a lot of their posessions. ENTjs are probably more concerned with their overall standing in finances. Their home, their net value, and plans for the future. ESTjs have this concern, but also a concern with the proper functioning of their goods. Delta types are also more conservative. I've seen what I think is a joke concerning ISTp on www.socionika.net and it was about ISTps and the bottom line being the price. Delta STs don't have any problem saying, "How much does it cost?" This is usually their first question if the situation could involve money.
Another thing we don't acknowledge of the Delta quadra is independence from society. Deltas are independent people who truly do what they think is best. They are fairly oblivious to authority in this aspect.
Edit: Stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
Isn't this too extreme. Feyman's been extensively typed as ENTj but I don't see him as strictly the latterQuote:
Originally Posted by heath
See, this really is more or less the problem I started with when I first came here. I know I'm Extroverted and I know I'm Thinking. I know this is my leading function. It's whether :Si: or :Ni: is my secondary function that is the problem I have had (and still have).
You could just be a very Te EJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
You know you just have to figure out the types of your friends. If they're INFps, ENFjs, ISFps, ENTjs, ESFps then you're likely ESTp. If they're ISFjs, ISTps, ESTps, ESFps, INTps, ENFps then you're likely ENTj. So on for ESTj
That's tough, because my friends are from a wide variety of types. INTj and ENFp are the types of my two closest friends. Two ESFjs, an ENTj, an ESFp, an ENxj, two ESTps, an ENTp, an ENFp, an ISFp, an ESTj are a variety of my friends from different circles.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Also, how do you apply your method (i.e. "and so on for ESTj"), FDG? I don't understand the logic behind it.
Take the quadra progression alpha-beta-gamma-deltaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
take you are in the beta quadra, then your friends in the adiacent quadras are more likely to have the same rationality-irrationality preferences and be heteroverted in respect to you, ex if you're ESTp then you'll likely have INTp and ISFp friends; if you're ENTj, the latter is much less likely and it's be more likely to be friends with an INFj (obviously)
hmmm. No. Feyman is only one example. I think there are plenty of pleasurable ENTj, I don't mean to imply they are not pleasurable. But I did mean that they have set ideas, and if you were to engage them in discussion in our on their theoretical subject they will probably recall the facts and figures they have learned and why they think it is correct/useful. An ENTp will discuss what he has learned, the potential he sees in the science, and more often make wild assertions that doubt the system altogether.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
IME, usually when they come up with those ideas, it's from an experience that they've observed (could be in their head or in external reality) that was totally alien to them, but still apart of a universal concept - what they've observed is an example of the concept, and they willl attempt to explain what they've observed but it would sound more.. I don't know, more like story telling I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana
Don't make the mistake of thinking ENTj's argue just by stating memorized facts. ENTj's are concrete Ni types, meaning that the origin of the things they say is intuition, not thought. It's very easy to chatch them at making a statement that they want to be true but isn't, even if mostly they 'intuit' right and end up being able to proove the things they say.
Memorized facts = concrete accepting judgment: ESTj
Probably I'd say that the ENTj will be more hellbent on strictly following a logical progression whereas this would be only an afterthought for the ENTp. I don't think that a type with both thinking and intuition as strongest functions can only spur memorized facts, otherwise his main functions would be useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by heath
I agree with heath, mostly.
Yes, but an ENTj will tend to start from ideas based on facts (or at least on something they read), and use Ni to explore them further - at which stage they may not bother to actually quote where they got the original idea from in the first place, so everything will sound more "mystical" than it probably is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana
I see this in myself when I discuss arcane subjects with others, like socionics or quantum theory. At one point, if I am exporing a point which is not really known but might be possible, I get enthusiastic about it in a Ni way and I may sound like an ENTp, but actually I'm going just a bit further than information I got elsewhere. Of course, if I don't say it, others may think that it's all my idea.
I'm only doing that because there are people on the forum who've previously told me to be clearer, or my arguments sound illogical or contradictory to them. But fair enough. I hate ambiguity, symbolism is useless unless it is actually true of the director's, artist's or band's intentions, and vagueness pisses me off (even though, as I've said before, I've done it a lot when I'm not thinking clearly). But I can't get this fucking vibe of the ESTp off my mind. How many different varieties of ESTp can there be? Nonetheless, I argue like a bitch until I've got my point across, and refuse to back down if I believe I'm right. I love to prove my point. I like people to genuinely know that I've beaten them not just "okay okay Ez you win" - that infuriates me when people don't cooperate and are disrespectful. I HATE disrespect to people, especially when it's towards me. This awareness of power that (I think :Se:s is it? have) and the way people get worn down, yeah, I have that. I use it too. But I'm shit with instant change. I also don't like parties unless I know pretty much no one. I went right off them last night when all the people who were there were complete fucking losers in every sense except the fact that they thought they were brilliant. Basically, I like to dream up a plan, then implement it. It's not so much spend four hours for a day and then go for it the next day, it's "right, I want to do this, so now I have a rough plan in my mind, I'll go for it". Too much planning kills me, which is why I'm not ESTj (also, that thing about the manual on the16types.info, where they read it and only then do they use their product. I'm not like that. I jump straight into shit). I've realised that I'm actually quite a sensual person, but I often dull my senses deliberately so I can pursue something that I enjoy, like getting a rush from jumping over fences into my back garden (a different route home) - and I don't care if I do my arm in or something. that's more related to my being an 8 though I think. I love action, because it stops the anxiety that you get if you prolong the time before doing something, like jumping off a rock or chatting someone up or something. I tend to be pretty self-preservationist in that I need my basics, and once I've got those I'm happy. I'm quite a doing person. I'm very productive when I need to be, and can work endlessly, and I love it. I like to keep my spaces orderly, although I can function when they're in shit. When I say I'm gonna do something, I do it. I have to. I set myself tasks to do and do them. No question. End of. I like a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transigent
He always was that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transigent
I am an ENTP in MBTI and I (for the longest time) thought I was an ENTp in socionics but recently I have been playing with the thought that I might be an ENTj. I have read some wikisocion descriptions of each and I could see myself being either but I want to know, what is the main way to distinguish between an ENTp from an ENTj in everyday life? though it may be an obvious question I dont know that i really know any ENTjs.
LIE view reliability, initiative, teamwork and professionalism as signs of competence.Quote:
Originally Posted by aixelsyd
ILE value talent, unique qualities, creativity and passion as qualities to be unlocked.
ILE aren't tolerant of incompetence and can be somewhat like Gregory House MD(ILE-Ti). (He is someone who values talent, unique qualities and tries to unlock the potential within his assistants. He requires his employees to have their own brain but is highly combative and even a bit abusive.)
ILE style of management is more about putting the right person in the right place and letting them flourish and be creative while LIE management style is more about working harder and smarter and more efficiently.
LIE are work and career oriented in order to acquire resources for their interests, while ILE are interest oriented and seek to materialize their interests into something that can be monetized.
This thread belongs in the16steoretypes.info forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiss
:(Quote:
Originally Posted by The Internet
Did you check the spelling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by polikujm
:(Quote:
Originally Posted by The Internet Strikes Back
Look around you. We are on the16stereotypes.info.Quote:
This thread belongs in the16steoretypes.info forum.
Quoting cartoons/action movies phrases --> ILE
Being strongly disliked by some people --> ILE
Being a smart ass --> ILE
Making arrows point to the right ---> ILEQuote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
:)
OMGZ ILES ARE IN ON THE VAST RIGHT-ARROW WING CONSPIRACYQuote:
Originally Posted by Timeless
AND SHIT
http://codex.gallery2.org/images/b/b...ike-button.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
Oh yes! It represents being rude (fi polr) and skipping introductions :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless
Meh, no way. Basically you're saying: LIEs are boring robots ILEs are cool people with great ideas :PQuote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
reliability, initiative, professionalism = BORING
Somehow this turned into the funniest current thread. Although I'm afraid you'll scare off the new guy!
Don't be scared, new poster! Maybe instead of asking about differences between types, tell about yourself.
As for your lists, LIEs might be more interested in professionalism, though it could just be that ILEs would define that a bit differently, and otherwise they're probably both interested in both. I mean, everyone likes creativity, passion, initiative, etc.
Why are you LIE exactly? You vibe SLE to me and I'm seriously having a very hard time picturing an LIE 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Initiative isn't really all that boring, but the other two are. :biggrin: That's just two out of three, so it's not all boring all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
ILE aren't really cool people with great ideas, we're more like really deranged sadists with ideas we shove down other's throats because we wanna look cool. :P We're tolerated because we're right some of the time(As in almost all of the time).
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariella
Nah, been there done that, doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
Why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
type relationships, VI, my tought processes, identicals, etc...everything.
http://www.historyhaven.com/wiki/ima...e_system_1.jpg
Do not speak to the untouchables. Oh and don't listen to them, that would be worse.
Fair enough. I'll just continue to think of you as a Decisive Logical Extrovert in general till I have more info to decide one way or the other. Capisci?Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Am I an ILE?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
δεν καταλαβαινωQuote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
I don't know you, so idk. So far it doesn't seem glaringly wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
What? almost half of the LIE population is LIE 7 man, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
wtf? You mean EIE?Quote:
Originally Posted by 07490
To be honest, I think you should really look into someone's type, get to know them, their core value, and not just read a description that can superficially relate with one and another in between socionics and enneagram. Reading enneagram/socionics sites 100 times won't be able to tell you if LIE can be 7 or not, but observing people in real life can, I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
I am not trying to bash you here man, but you are reading into these things the wrong way.
I have not met an LIE 7 in my life other than FDG (assuming he is LIE).Quote:
Originally Posted by 07490
You're not being too brash, don't worry. I can get a lot worse. ;)
I have met one since the first day I was born.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
I see why you think LIE is unlikely for 7. LIE stereotypically means entrepreneurship and 7 is an enthusiastic person and all that crap etc... unfortunately reality doesn't play out like. since it's only a stereotype other kind of LIE overshadows the others.
Ok, so if you've only met one LIE 7, and LIE is not described in a manner conducive to Enneagram 7, then why are you asserting 7 is a likely type for LIE? :?
Look. Believe it if you want. I believe at this stage I have much more experiences than you, and I never like to use this excuse on anyone and claim that I am right. But frankly this is the case here between me and you, and I am not going through this whole debate if LIE 7 exists or not, you believe what you want, I already know, I have no desires to lecture you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
well drawing from the sparse information in this thread, and my own conclusion, Im still an ILE.
ehh, i dont like forums much anyways. I'd much rather talk to people in person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariella
I would describe myself but my self-concept is probably more geared towards what an ILE is like anyways so it would be useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by aixelsyd
It'd be more likely for my E-type to be wrong rather than my socionics type. However, they're both likely to be right. If you check out some non stereotypical type 7 descriptions, there's nothing incompatible with a EJ type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
Or enneagram types could be completely made up.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
maybe. It's probably not a good idea to use Enneagram to make an argument for/against a type seeing how it's another theoretical typology system all togetherQuote:
Originally Posted by itdoesntmatter
I just feel like enneagram is a trivial system altogether. It doesn't have much of a practical use and it doesn't really matter what your type is. Its just another system for people to fret over. We have a hard enough time with converting types from MBTI to socionics and then we have enneatypes to just screw everything up. It is the least scientific typology and it hardly converts over into any of the other systems.
I used to think it was trivial too; it just seemed like types were defined by specific external characteristics and didn't really bother to look at what truly goes on inside a person. But once you figure out what enneagram actually tries to define, you'll find that it's a really powerful tool when understanding people, moreso than Socionics in several ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by itdoesntmatter
Yeah it definitely looks at a different side of humans then socionics does. thats for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galen
No no no, it's not EJ that seems less than compatible with 7, it's Te-leading. Fe-leading can easily lead to 7-like behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Why? How? I'm frankly having a lot of trouble seeing how Te-leading with Ni auxiliary would be compatible with a 7 motivation, in any Jungian typology system whatsoever. I'm not saying it's impossible (I've seen ENTJ SLE 7s, though no LIE 7s before FDG), but most likely? What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton2
That sounds a lot more like Enneagram 3 than 7. To the extent that it's Enneagram-related it basically says that LIEs will go where their work is more likely to be appreciated.
On football Saturdays, I park cars in my yard. I can typically park about 36 cars at $40-$60/car during a game. It’s a cash business and I like to talk to people, so it’s a win-win.
I park my own car on the street so I can sell a spot in my driveway, and then, when the yard is full, I can sell someone my parking space in the street. Lol. I don’t know if that’s exactly legal, but none of the buyers have ever complained.
Today, after a very long day of raising and lowering and raising prices (it’s all about charging what the customer can pay), I was beat and was leaning on my parking sign, trying to decide if I wanted the hassle of selling my street space, when an ILE with his posse walked by and said, disparagingly, “I see they have you out here late with that sign.”
I thought, “No, dude. I own the lot.”
Doesn't that just make it worse?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Worse in what sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
Is it worse because it’s an obligation that I can’t evade, or worse for some other reason?
Amazing, people who grab hose sized stampedes of orbital earth gravity detonating wallpapers of all fiery glory and a sporting firebrand.
Why do you think the ILE think badly of what you were doing? The only answer that really comes to my mind is that you were wasting the evening trying to squeeze money out of people rather than doing something better with your time, like walking and socializing with your friends. So a response like I own the lot would, I imagine, make the ILE think worse of you, because this would seem to make your use of time more voluntary than if you just needed the wage someone was paying you to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Both can exhibit the other's column but not nearly as much:
ILE vs LIE
experimenter vs producer
detached vs engaged
input vs output
freedom vs control
laissez-faire vs dictate
observe vs influence
lecture vs communicate
eyes-wide-open vs fingers-on-everything
cursory vs tunnel-vision
elitist vs competitive
subvert vs make-an-example
don't-trust-what-I-know vs know-what-I-know
strategic vs tactical
aloof vs enigmatic
lone-wolf vs leader-of-the-pack
a.k.a. I/O
I was wondering about these two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Wouldn't the LIE be the lecturer and the ILE be the communicator? Since LIE is declaring and ILE is asking.
Also, how is an ILE elitist?
let's go, another good excuse to talk about the talanov functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudaimonia
Alright so ILE's asking(questinism) is Qi, LIE's declaritivness is De.
Qi is: " self-doubt and a tendency to frequent doubts and hesitations in their assessments and when choosing a solution; excessive self-criticism, lack of self-confidence and assertiveness; an emphatically painful attitude towards any injustice, individualism, that is, rejection from the hierarchy, from the indivisible by the individual and perceived critically, but imposed from the outside and mandatory collective activities and values"
And De is: "hypertension; optimism and a penchant for fun and laughter; circumlocution; resistance to prolonged monotonous intensive loads (such as marathon run); tolerance and indecision; gullibility and disposition towards people, aspiration for rapprochement with them on a short distance; suggestibility; quickness and benevolent indecisiveness; self-confidence and arrogance (up to the gait "belly forward"); often - impulsive to the possible consequences of impulsive actions, which leads to risky actions; stake in any activity on the "thick", that is, on the quantity, rather than on the perfectionist pickiness to quality; increased "affirmative" speech style"
So to answer your questions, ILE would typically not be an elitist(though arguably neither would LIE). And for your first question "De subjects prefer to speak (hyperactivation of the left anterior speech zones) rather than listen (underactivation of the temporal zones).", so ya your right LIE lecturer ILE communicator.
Edit: Though i will note these functions aren't super tied to the type, just more leanings, I know personally I'm De not Qi dominant despite being an ILE.
So that there exists better ways if you just keep digging?Quote:
elitist
relating to or supporting the view that a society or system should be led by an elite
subvert
undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution)