Kindred type differences: ILE-ENTp and IEE-ENFp

Chut up! *runs off crying*

And now you see the real me, lol. This is the kind of crap that goes through my head while I juggle Fe on Stickam.

And I was trying to generalize my abstract and complicated idea. Which does make us sound like robots. But I'm a robot, I can't help but make people sound like robots too.

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Originally Posted by mikemex

@look:

You're assuming the MBTI posture where T = smart, F = dumb, which is not the case by any means. IEEs and ILEs are equally capable when it comes to intellectual ability.

If IEEs make a lot of mistakes, it's not because of some inherent flaw in their thinking. A true deficiency manifests itself through the inability to realize something by your own; which is not the case, because IEE can catch most of their own mistakes. Rather, the supposed flaw comes by the very nature of the extroverted and irrational individual: a tendency to share an (incomplete) idea before finishing the thinking process.

I have a close ILE friend that knows nothing about socionics. He's smart, but unfortunately he's somewhat ignorant due the environment he was raised in. I'm aware that I should not state things lightly, so when we are together and a disagreement about something raises, I just let him talk and he generally traps himself into something absurd. It doesn't have anything to do with his intelligence level, but rather what I stated above.

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I never meant it as T= smart or F= dumb, nor do I assume/think that. Sorry if it came off that way, I was kinda just writing off the fly. I feel like my ENTp friend has a stronger grasp at linking facts together in a manner that views them as just facts, while I as an ENFp tend to look at the situational factors. A lot of this could be skewed because I hang around with a lot of xNTx types and many times I can't stay in arguments for long, but I don't feel dumber than them, I just know my style of thinking needs more time to digest that sort of thing. As for the example, yeah, I think you took something from what I said that I wasn't really getting at, I'm not sure if it was because I was unclear or what.

And to Vero, I will have to look at what you said a little more thoroughly (I admit, it did sound like you were talking about type robots :p) but from what I skimmed over I thought you had some interesting observations. I was trying to go for a more personal bent because the poster was looking for something less Socionics heavy :P

I couldn't think of a way to make it personal without edging towards type stereotypes, lol. That takes Fi, not Ti, haha.

Reading through this thread, the difference between ILE and IEE seems kind of obvious.

ILE = robotic humanoid
IEE = illogical people person

:p

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Originally Posted by mn0good

I couldn't think of a way to make it personal without edging towards type stereotypes, lol. That takes Fi, not Ti, haha.

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That's pretty hard to do Verotron.

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Originally Posted by munenori2

Reading through this thread, the difference between ILE and IEE seems kind of obvious.

ILE = robotic humanoid
IEE = illogical people person

:p

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You know, I wonder what would happen if an ILE and an IEE had a baby.

A godforsaken mess, that's what. :P

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Originally Posted by LokiVanguard

You know, I wonder what would happen if an ILE and an IEE had a baby.

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http://www.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr83/83_johnny5.jpg

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Originally Posted by tiny_dancer

A godforsaken mess, that's what. :P

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Originally Posted by munenori2

http://www.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr83/83_johnny5.jpg

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:shock::?:(......

:o

Only one way to find out. Let the Socionics Breeding Project commence...

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Originally Posted by munenori2

http://www.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr83/83_johnny5.jpg

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I can't wait to check out this picture when I get home later tonight.

@look.to.the.sky

That's very noble of you to donate your body to science... Let me know how it turns out.

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Originally Posted by tiny_dancer

@look.to.the.sky

That's very noble of you to donate your body to science... Let me know how it turns out.

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Hey, it's not whoring out if it's... FOR SCIENCE!

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Originally Posted by mn0good

I can't wait to check out this picture when I get home later tonight.

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I better hurry up and take it down then!

[quote]Hey, it's not whoring out if it's... FOR SCIENCE![quote]

Another volunteer? Great!

It's too bad that look and I can't reproduce, but I'm sure jxrtes or Riddy might be willing to help out.

Man, where's Tee-reg when you need him. I think he should change his avatar to a tyrannosaurus-rex, as a side-note.

@mune: If you take down that picture, I'll be convinced you're another one of those INXj secret keepers I was talking about in another thread and abduct you. I will invent a shrink-ray, make you a miniature and keep you in a shoebox in my closet until you reveal to me your secrets. Don't make me whip out the eye on you *glares*

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Originally Posted by mn0good

@mune: If you take down that picture, I'll be convinced you're another one of those INXj secret keepers I was talking about in another thread and abduct you. I will invent a shrink-ray, make you a miniature and keep you in a shoebox in my closet until you reveal to me your secrets. Don't make me whip out the eye on you *glares*

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You alphas and your evil ingenuity.

Boys play with rockets and submarines.

Girls work in the field and see stars and planets.

It is just this you are observing my love


Me and my friend wanted to build a huge ass robot with blades on his hands and we could sit in the head like transformers almost. We was gonna build it using junk and stuff people throw away. We made kick ass pictures of it and it had lasers and helicopters attacking the robot but he had a thick metal skin so he wasn't damaged!

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Originally Posted by Darkstar

Boys play with rockets and submarines.

Girls work in the field and see stars and planets.

It is just this you are observing my love

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lol, I hope that's a joke.

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Originally Posted by munenori2

lol, I hope that's a joke.

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i'm not so sure he's wrong. being that i relate more to day dreaming and i'm a clear ILE. my 5 year old daughter is also ILE and she does the same thing. weird how gender exerts so much influence, even early on. makes it difficult to own logic as one's creative function later on, esp if MBTI is used.

I used to organize kids in my neighborhood to do activities--sometimes games that I created, variations on tag, hide-and-go-seek, and basketball, (occasionally having to do with Ghostbusters hah.) In the late 80s, I was 5 or so, I remember forming a rap group with about ten kids, and we would go door-to-door and rap for ppl...

Now that I'm thinking about it, most of my daydreaming was concerned with organizing ppl to do activities... Or dinosaurs.

I used to make things like your ENTp husband did (or want to). I preferred it to be a tangible object. I liked making crafts that you could use.

Around 5 or so, I remember sketching a race car (a piece of wood with 4 wheels basically, lol) and asking my dad if he would build it (he, an ENTJ, did not). I also asked if we could make a hot air balloon and thought if we boiled enough water on the stove it would work for the hot air (I was wrong :)

He did help me make a scooter out of wood (even though it didn't really scoot).

Then I asked if we could build a little house in the backyard, but was disappointed when he said no because it couldn't have electricity or plumbing. I remember actually thinking it'd be nice if he knew enough about that to hook it up to those things.

I think this must be why we're good w/ ISTps.

Don't be so demanding on your poor dad :P

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Originally Posted by Darkstar

Don't be so demanding on your poor dad :P

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yeah, I know. But this is when I was like, 5. He would get annoyed and call me "a nag" even at that age.

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Originally Posted by ephemeros

could be. though he doesn't want to appear as a conqueror, but much of a defender, i noticed this for Si mainly, their main reason for being aggressive is proving in self-defense.

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Se can be defenders also... Se isn't always about going out and obtaining more, it can also be about defending what one has.

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Originally Posted by Diana

Fi. That's the big difference. An ENFp is confident in Fi matters and their dual (the ISTp) has Fe polr, is not very emotionally expressive and so on. An ENTp needs more Fe from others, and their dual (ISFp) is softer and warmer than an ISTp (sounds like I'm describing a pillow :? ).

Fe vs. Fi quadras and people: Fe is jokey, playful, non-serious, clubbish. They can take the serious and turn it frivolous. For a Fi person this is disconcerting because they're inclined to take everything as meaning something even when joking around. "I didn't mean anything by it" is more likely to be said by Fe quadra folks than Fi, and "Oh, I thought you meant" is more likely to be said by Fi quadra folks than Fe. My powers of communication I'm afraid = fail right now.

Basically if you can be in a relationship with an ISTp and not get bewildered that they never seem to change emotion, you might be ENFp. If you can be in a relationship with an ISFp and not get bewildered by their shifting emotions and vagueness, you might be ENTp. But only might (: Obviously both can be quite happy with their semi-duals as well and adjust and learn to understand each other, though I think an ENFp-ISFp matchup would work better than ENTp-ISTp in the long-term.

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good. but only half the answer. the other half is the Ti difference. ;)

Unlicensed mental health counselor:

Ne (shared)

Person is not at an optimum state. (Emotionally/socially/health-wise/etc)

(ILE)

• Internalizes emotions of the subject (Fe), attempts to guide it.
• More methodical approach (Ti) (may attempt to run through a procedure, for instance)
• Tries to help everyone due to Fi-denial?
• Less apt at social maneuvering due to bond-blindness (Fi PoLR bears).

(IEE)

• Internalizes psyche of the subject, tries to provide solution from subject's point of view (Fi creative).
• More flexible approach, "if/then" framing. (Te) (assesses the situation and where to guide it)
• More inclined to help people that share a bond with the IEE (easier to provide a view from "within", due to Fi > Ti )
• Can maneuver people to come in contact with others due to Fi's "internal" approach.

Learning:

Ne (shared)

Wants to acquire as many skills as possible.

ILE

• Wants to link skills/fields together. (Ti)
• The facts exist by virtue of the theory, and new facts may be added to the theory. More inclined to hold out that theory is "correct" and then move on to a "derived" one if it becomes untenable. (Ti)
• Attempts to understand the central aspects of the theory (Ne), and then link facts in (Ti).

IEE

• Wants to apply skills. (Te)
• The theory is only defined by the facts, and as such, can be discarded if the facts "paint" a different theory.
• Attempts to understand the nature fo the facts (Ne) and how to apply them (Te).

Acting:

Ne (shared)

? Used at all?

ILE

• Learns character by emotional responses (Fe + Ti)
• Characters are like masks, and can be slipped on.
• To that end, can rapidly play switcheroo with the masks.

IEE

• Defines character by who feels what about said character. (Fi; Te component = ? Is it present at all?)
• Characters are entire mindsets/people that one involves self in.
• To that end, an element of inertia. This demands longer transitions.

IEEs, personal experience/opinions?

List is not exhaustive or correct, far from it. This is just a starting point. Feel free to add/amend. I'll also add it to the wiki.

Also, maybe being 7w6-9w1 makes me superficially like some IEEs. Other ILEs and IEEs may be far more dissimilar! I'm just trying to puzzle out which one I am ):

EDIT

Now with 50% more wiki

yeah gulanzon, you're are not ENFp.

I have a slight feeling you aren't ENTp, but I can smell you're alpharoma from here.

yeah... wow... no.

You are probably Ne ENTp (Ne mode, Fe agenda) or Fe ISFp (Fe mode, Ne agenda)

You act exactly like Steve described Ne mode ENTp's in that you "become" the Ne, jumping about like an insane person, bouncing from Ne node to Ne node whilst looking for that Fe reaction.

Nah for Delta.

Well Salawa and Errant are clearly not my supervisors. ENTp = out.

Also, ENFps != weak :Fe:. And I do agree with it being secondary to some good old-fashioned :Fi: tailor-made love and care.

Fi-ENFp. Way too strong a case, especially with how I deal with my friends vs how I deal with potential new contacts.

EDIT

And let it never be said that Fs are bad actors. Especially with the 4w3 component to my personality, "Call me a saint, and I am a saint--until you call me a thief." If I throw all the Socionics "I should be doing this according to this framework" out the window, bam. No more jamming my thoughts into your crazy white boxes. It just takes far too much effort. I'm just not good at that, I really am not.

Also, substantiate your Alpha > Delta claim. Go a day without jumping to seemingly random conclusions "Because they seem reasonable". Or explain them, if they are logical. I don't see it. I see you perceiving however I present myself, which is, sadly, but a small picture. Even I myself had to come to terms with this.

</tirade>

A difference between the two that is very easy to notice yet a lot of people don't know about, is that ENFps are relatively stable, whereas ENTps are chaotic and random.

ESFps are also chaotic. ESTps quite stable. It's a Negative/Result (stability, integration) vs. Positive/Process (advancement) thing, combined with the Ep temperament that makes Positive/Process show as extremely chaotic.

I really have a hard time imagining you as my dual, Gulanzon. Conflictor, on the other hand... Have you considered EIE?

Impossible, I'm not Si-PoLR.

And I love your SLI acid. It makes me smile :)

I found the old ENTp typing easier to accept. But it's your call, ultimately.

I'll make a new thread, lab. We can discuss it there.

But keep up the good work! I respect your Ti.

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Originally Posted by Gulanzon

And I love your SLI acid. It makes me smile :)

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You love my 'SLI acid'? :confused: Have you been smelling my feet?

Nope.

It's sulfuric acid. Dehydrating and dry.

So I cannot decide between ILE/ENTp and IEE/ENFp......

Attachment 6160

A sibling of mine posted this Advice thread on facebook that was written by Thor. Some advice is common sense, and some of it is just lazy. His words in combination with the photo tell a story of ILE/IEE to me yet I can't decide which one. What do you guys think?

http://imgur.com/gallery/G6KeVSu


How to live like a king for very little By THOR HARRIS

1. Don’t smoke cigarettes.

2. Drive old Japanese cars. Easy and cheap to fix & they run for fucking ever.

3. Buy most of your groceries from the produce section. Most of that other shit is not actually food. You don’t need it.

4. Ride your bike instead of driving as much as you can. You need the exercise and gas is expensive.

5. Don’t have kids. They’re not miracles, they’re people. 7 billion is too fucking many. Find some other way to give your dull existence some meaning. BTW they’re expensive.

6. Get your clothes from thrift stores. With the physique you’ll have from riding your bike, you’ll look hot wearing anything.

7. Learn to fix things. Tons of great books and youtube vids on fixing anything. Or ask an old dude. People used to fix things. No shit.

8. Learn a trade – Carpentry, plumbing, electrical, auto mechanics, tailoring, computer/electronics repair, something They can’t fucking outsource. No one gives a shit about your Masters in Dostoyevsky…. fix something, dumbass, fix something!

9. If you like booze, drink at home with your neighbors. Drunk driving is for assholes, rich ones with lawyers.10. Do people favors. It’s called Cooperation. It’s how the world worked before money. They will return the favor, or someone will. No shit. This really works.

11. Make things – Look around you. What do you see? Yah, shitty stuff made by impoverished enslaved people far away. Pick anything. Make a better one. People want good shit. You won’t get rich, but you’ll get by.

12. If you live in America – don’t get sick and avoid injury. Wear your fucking helmet and put lights on your bike.

13. Find work you love. If you can’t do that, then find a job where you love the people.

14. Junkies and addicts are like toddlers. They just want to shit all over you and everything. The messes they make can get expensive. Avoid them if you can.

15. Don’t buy shit on credit, remember what happened to America? Cash only, fuckers. Can’t afford it? Don’t fucking buy it!

16. Preventable expenses - STD’s, abortions, DWI’s, lung cancer, head injuries, speeding tickets, cirrhosis of the liver.

17. Don’t go on fancy dates if you’re not fancy. Most people kind of despise the rich anyway.

18. When you go see shows, bring a flask in. That way you can afford to buy a record.

19. If you had told me 15 years ago that Coca Cola would put tap water in plastic bottles and motherfuckers would BUY IT …… No fuckin way.

20. Don’t get cable. Asshole. There is nothing on. I promise. $100 a month ? Fuck no!

LOL, he sounds like Ron Swanson.

Some visible differences, Fe demonstrative vs Te demonstrative. ENTps root themselves in the ground, are very structurally stable. There is a lot more nervous movement with an ENFp. ENTps will naturally organize their surroundings in a logical way, ENFps struggle with this, their surroundings are often in chaos.
Fe demonstrative comes out as a sudden smile, a sudden laugh or cry, that disappears as quickly as it emerges. ENFps react this way before conscious thought. An ENTp's emotions are more private, except for the ones they deliberately display (eg. though acting).
Also ENFps will instinctively lower their tone if they sense an argument coming, ENTps may be energized by it and keep their tone raised.

:Ne: base (might not apply with :Se: bases and you might want see Model G +/- since it might be bit similar with their supervisees).
:Ti: creative crafts theory. If it takes personal experiences into account it is still based on some sort of simulated model considering logical relations.
:Fi: creative sets opinions based on how they see the experiences from other's POV how they see it. Not entirely sure.