Do you believe if you were abused you should talk about it in public?

I've noticed a trend ongoing in this forum, with members disclosing that they were abused and (attempting)/talking about it here. So I wonder what is the best course of action if you were abused; to disclose it in public and openly talk about it, to disclose to a close friend, psychologist, or trustee, or to keep it to yourself forever. What is better in terms of aiding in the process of getting over the events, and become a "survivor" (and carry on with your life) instead of a "victim" , with the repercussions that the latter carries in your wellbeing, mindset, life, and personal development?


discuss.

Imho, it might be a bit of a false dichotomy to assume there’s only one correct way to process abuse, or even that one’s method of processing has to be uniform.. I’m not sure any approach is necessarily superior to another, and how one approaches it is likely subject to multiple factors, such as the form and frequency of the abuse in question, how others have reacted to one's disclosure in the past, etc. I do think enneagram/sociotype can play a role as well, but these are likely secondary to other factors; likewise, they seem perhaps more likely to guide how one navigates certain avenues of disclosure, rather than which coping method(s) are used in the first place. For example, if an enneagram 9 chooses to talk about abuse they've experienced, they might be more likely to share it among people they trust or only in certain environments (where they won't run the risk of alienating others with their disclosure). However, other types (like cp 6s or 8s) might be more likely to prioritize their own feelings towards their disclosure, and thus may be less likely to take others' feelings into account regarding their tone and method of expression/secrecy.

Overall, I definitely don't think it's a one-size-fits-all, and it seems to me that each coping mechanism can have its own time and place. I might be more inclined to take one approach myself, but that certainly doesn't mean others have to, or even should ascribe to it, based on the needs of their psyche and the nature of their wounds. This is especially applicable considering the fact that each method seems to have its own benefits and drawbacks.. For example, finally gaining the courage to disclose abuse you've experienced to someone, and receiving validation with regards to it, can be a freeing and healing feeling. However, it can likewise divorce you from truly processing it, as externalizing it can sometimes take you out of that realm of analysis (which may be more important depending on the abuse). The pros and cons of the other methods seem to operate within a similar frame as well. As such, I would hope one would take the approach that is most able to provide them with the space, solace, and peace of mind they need.

Typology communities do attract their share of people with emotional trauma, people with depression, people with insecurities, etc.

Does hovering over the subject online (incessantly, over many years) make these conditions better? I don't know.

But I do sense that typology is attractive because it's easy to understand the underlying principles behind these theories. And, because the concepts are so accessible and relatable, and because there is no formal barrier to entry, anyone can have an opinion on how these systems actually work (people make their own models and present their own theories all the time).

The experience is therefore more engaging and satisfying (and may even engender a greater sense of accomplishment) than getting spoonfed an opaque diagnosis—notably, by some higher authority with impenetrable credentials, whose reasoning may not be fully relatable to a layperson, and which may even provoke suspicion among skeptical individuals that have an uneasiness towards authoritative claims.

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Originally Posted by roger557

I've noticed a trend ongoing in this forum, with members disclosing that they were abused and (attempting)/talking about it here. So I wonder what is the best course of action if you were abused; to disclose it in public and openly talk about it, to disclose to a close friend, psychologist, or trustee, or to keep it to yourself forever. What is better in terms of aiding in the process of getting over the events, and become a "survivor" (and carry on with your life) instead of a "victim" , with the repercussions that the latter carries in your wellbeing, mindset, life, and personal development?

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You're missing a key aspect I fear I must spell out for you. Here? On the net? You are truly anonymous in all the ways that matter for 98 Percent of the population.

Literally nothing you say here will affect you in any measurable or objective way. After all, while the possibility is there we're talking lottery odds that you cussing out "SawconDz 8730" will get your voice recognized by some rando customer at Home Depot for example and that they'll punch you in the face because "That was for teabagging me (insert your own personal screenname here)!"

So in that kind of environment go ahead. Tell us all so long as you name no true names or actually dox people. It literally cannot hurt as nobody has the realistic ability to identify you in a concrete way unless they got mad hacking skills and trust me, if someone has that they got much much much better and vastly more profitable uses of their time. Don't take this the wrong way but you're literally "not worth their time" if you think someone is like that is gunning for you.

My point is this. Anything you say here, there, or anywhere on the internet that isn't mainstream "Social Media" has next to zero chance of filtering down to the likes of your own parents, bosses, or even spouses (in the worst case I could gladly dare to mention). No true risk, just other broken people who may be less broken than you talking. It is both a blessing and a deep curse. Only in modernity could such abuses happen. Yet by (I'd argue) divine mercy the solution is also only possible. Anonymity cuts both ways. An anomalous abuser must likewise face down an anomalous "ally of Justice" as it were essentially by right of its own existence.

Indeed, it all makes sense in a very dumb/simple way. Evil, the very concept of it, is in truth a lack of "Virtue". "Evil" is a parasite upon the good. It's a good thing that lacks something critical. Cowardice, for example, is prudence that lacks courage (both of these are virtues BTW). If you think long and hard on anything "bad" you'll find it is, in truth, a "good" thing that lacks that critical component/compliment and that lack makes it bad.

To put it in socionics terms there is a damn good reason why every function is necessarily linked with another. For Gamma's like myself :Ni: is paired with :Se: as naturally as :Te: is paired with :Fi:. Every function can be compared to a virtue. The "vice" kicks in when it lacks its compliment. To use my previous example, you're only a true "coward" if you irrationally flee from a fight that most anyone with any sense of :Te: would say you've got a pretty damn good shot at winning (and even if you didn't :Fi: would demand you fight anyway but hey, if you can weasel you way into fighting the foe on a more favorable battlefield)... Likewise, you are "Foolhardy" if you, for instance, charge over the trench onto no-man's land with the belief in your heart that "I'm invincible" somehow. No, no you're not and you're gonna die for nothing. :Fi: needs :Te: to keep it in check and becoming a vice.

Yet you'd still die for a reason right? If you die, yet it counts, than it wasn't in vain. This is what I'm talking about how the functions are linked on a level that really ought to be spelled out harder. I'd like to ask other types how they tend to spell this kind of thing out to both themselves and others. I have the "visceral" level in regards to both :Te:-:Fi: and :Se:-:Ni: and can get the others through academic contemplation. The "visceral" level though...

That's why types and other such things exist. You can "know" a thing and yet act as if you do not even if you're so invested in what you "know" that you say you'd die for it. Discuss...

i prefer to hear about it and it doesnt botter me i dont see why it should bother me
other ppl would exploit that
i dont see why does it matter on this forum

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What is better in terms of aiding in the process of getting over the events, and become a "survivor" (and carry on with your life) instead of a "victim"

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those terms are pure ego and ppl who tend to think like that are narcisssits who turned to the dark side bc its easy to think "im not a victim im a survivor"
not necessarily always but a lot of ppl do think in the narcissistic terms. whatever happenned happenned . bad things arent positive. people use that to demean others suffering, and excuse themselves from hurting others too. if i hurt u u can just be a survivor stop whining lmao. im not repsonsible for what I do to u, u are.
disgusting.

Should be done selectively. You are not the only one with similar issues possibly with different outcomes etc.

It depends on a lot of factors, really. One isn’t right for everyone. Some people use talking about their trauma as a way to spread awareness and it becomes part of their life focus/cause. Some people keep it to themselves, and are wise to do so, for various reason, such as affecting public opinion of them in terms of their job or employment. Neither one are necessarily ‘right’ imo, just depends on what kind of message you want to send or what course you want to take in life. Society needs people willing to share their stories and it needs people that can pull up their sleeves and keep quiet about it. The question is, which one are you, or do you want to be?

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Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist

i prefer to hear about it and it doesnt botter me i dont see why it should bother me
other ppl would exploit that
i dont see why does it matter on this forum
those terms are pure ego and ppl who tend to think like that are narcisssits who turned to the dark side bc its easy to think "im not a victim im a survivor"
not necessarily always but a lot of ppl do think in the narcissistic terms. whatever happenned happenned . bad things arent positive. people use that to demean others suffering, and excuse themselves from hurting others too. if i hurt u u can just be a survivor stop whining lmao. im not repsonsible for what I do to u, u are.
disgusting.

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I don't give a crap either if people want to talk about their abuse here, but to be spouting others in the face "but you were abused!", that is just mindless. It is up to the person if they want to reveal what happened to them or not.

Those terms I am not happy with either, that's why I put them in quotation marks. I too doubt the motivation of the ones who use them and make the distinction. But one thing is for certain, it all comes down to this: do you want to make your whole world revolve around the issue that you were abused, or do you prefer to get over it as best as you can, and carry on trying to live a normal life? Or is there another choice? There is.

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Originally Posted by roger557

do you want to make your whole world revolve around the issue that you were abused, or do you prefer to get over it as best as you can, and carry on trying to live a normal life? Or is there another choice? There is.

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not sure what u mean make. everything is interrelated in my mind. if u ignore something u arent addressing it. the point is that abuse is there and ur supposed to help others and urself to live ethically. if u bury ur own abuse to submit to stupid standards, thats ltierally how narcissists are born. it becomes about ego and doing things that other people want out of u to survive because they do not carea bout you. you will always have to be someone else and never seek empathy and understanding from others, but dominate them with manipulation, assertiveness, wealth, strength, control, and u lsoe touch with whats right or wrong, as u become the mask that keeps u going, because if u dont u will just fall. u become a reflection of how the world treated u so this can result in u hurting someone else like you were unfairly. u can lose so much touch, become codependent on others in power, so it becomes a narcissistic circle jerk where the ends justify the means in a disotrted thought process that just keeps ruining lives
most peopel who claim they're over their issues just push them on someone else who's vulnerable forcefully and tell them to stop being a victim

once uve been through that there is no normal life. u still live in that same world that happenned with the same social order and the same people with the same mentalities. and u have to constantly balance being a monster with being vulnerable - if u even get that privilege
edit: forgot about also balancing the boredom, frustration, drug cravings, self harm and suicide ideation

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Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist

not sure what u mean make. everything is interrelated in my mind. if u ignore something u arent addressing it. the point is that abuse is there and ur supposed to help others and urself to live ethically. if u bury ur own abuse to submit to stupid standards, thats ltierally how narcissists are born. it becomes about ego and doing things that other people want out of u to survive because they do not carea bout you. you will always have to be someone else and never seek empathy and understanding from others, but dominate them with manipulation, assertiveness, wealth, strength, control, and u lsoe touch with whats right or wrong, as u become the mask that keeps u going, because if u dont u will just fall. u become a reflection of how the world treated u so this can result in u hurting someone else like you were unfairly. u can lose so much touch, become codependent on others in power, so it becomes a narcissistic circle jerk where the ends justify the means in a disotrted thought process that just keeps ruining lives
most peopel who claim they're over their issues just push them on someone else who's vulnerable forcefully and tell them to stop being a victim

once uve been through that there is no normal life. u still live in that same world that happenned with the same social order and the same people with the same mentalities. and u have to constantly balance being a monster with being vulnerable - if u even get that privilege
edit: forgot about also balancing the boredom, frustration, drug cravings, self harm and suicide ideation

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You say "there is no normal life" after this. I agree one does never fully recover from something like this. But shouldn't one long to seek happiness? How can someone be happy ever if all they think about and make their life, speech, and behavior revolve upon is their past abuse?

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Originally Posted by roger557

There is.

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Here is what you can also do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSLvcJ4I1mw

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Originally Posted by roger557

You say "there is no normal life" after this. I agree one does never fully recover from something like this. But shouldn't one long to seek happiness? How can someone be happy ever if all they think about and make their life, speech, and behavior revolve upon is their past abuse?

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if u keep exercising the same negative experiences in ur mind yeah thats not good ur not supposed to let it control u harmfully
in my mind happiness CAN be cheap, meaning/purpose is what matters and what i said thats its about improving everyone's lives but some ppl will exploit that to mean to harm and exploit vulnerable people bc its the easy way to be happy instead of doing the right thing
like if u focus on the emotion or on making money alone instead of thinking about things that imply happinness (learning skills lets say)
sry im delirious

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Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist

if u keep exercising the same negative experiences in ur mind yeah thats not good ur not supposed to let it control u harmfully
in my mind happiness CAN be cheap, meaning/purpose is what matters and what i said thats its about improving everyone's lives but some ppl will exploit that to mean to harm and exploit vulnerable people bc its the easy way to be happy instead of doing the right thing
like if u focus on the emotion or on making money alone instead of thinking about things that imply happinness (learning skills lets say)
sry im delirious

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Take it easy bro :)

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Originally Posted by roger557

I've noticed a trend ongoing in this forum, with members disclosing that they were abused and (attempting)/talking about it here. So I wonder what is the best course of action if you were abused; to disclose it in public and openly talk about it, to disclose to a close friend, psychologist, or trustee, or to keep it to yourself forever. What is better in terms of aiding in the process of getting over the events, and become a "survivor" (and carry on with your life) instead of a "victim" , with the repercussions that the latter carries in your wellbeing, mindset, life, and personal development?


discuss.

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If by talking about it in public, you mean disclosing it on the forum… well I think people experiencing abuse tend to either isolate themselves or be isolated by the abuser. They might use an online forum like this as an outlet to discuss what happened because they feel like they can’t talk about it with anyone they know irl. Validation feels good after hearing the abuser tell you over and over that the abuse is your fault and that you’re “making” them abuse you. But at some point, if you can’t move forward and feel stuck seeking validation from internet access strangers, then you might be better off finding other ways to cope with you’re situation.

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Originally Posted by Poptart

If by talking about it in public, you mean disclosing it on the forum… well I think people experiencing abuse tend to either isolate themselves or be isolated by the abuser. They might use an online forum like this as an outlet to discuss what happened because they feel like they can’t talk about it with anyone they know irl. Validation feels good after hearing the abuser tell you over and over that the abuse is your fault and that you’re “making” them abuse you. But at some point, if you can’t move forward and feel stuck seeking validation from internet access strangers, then you might be better off finding other ways to cope with you’re situation.

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Well, I think an important step is to distance yourself from the abusers all that you can (especially if these are members of your "family"). However, this is not always easy or possible. Most likely, the best course of action if you are trapped with your abuser(s) is to talk it on the internet, but I guess you have to be careful because if word reaches the abusers that you're talking, they might kill you or something of the sort. The root of the issue I think is that society doesn't protect abused people effectively.

Mb its just easier for ppl to speak in forums.

I think it's best to reframe the negative beliefs it may have incurred so the individual can be more adaptive and cope with triggers. Psychologists/therapists/counsellors are also helpful for reframing harmful beliefs. Friends and family... It really depends on the trust you place in the person and the person's competency in playing the role of a therapist. I think talking about your trauma on an open forum is a bad idea if the trauma hasn't been remedied. Even still, a lot of traumas create scars that can easily be reopened and poured salt in. So it really depends on the strength of the individual and how well they've been able to remedy the trauma.

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Originally Posted by Diametric

I talk about it to some extent, because it's part of the life experience and gives more nuance into my motivations, but I wouldn't personally go into full detail, because people love to exploit that shit, especially on here.

But I met another EIE woman who just couldn't shut up about her traumas, brought it up in every single conversation, and made it into her whole identity that it made me uncomfortable. Like she was telling me about her rape and her sister's suicide within our first two conversations and was telling pretty much everyone. I try my best to not be like her and keep it to myself, but unfortunately people struggle to understand me unless they have been through a lot of trauma themselves.

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That is a big indicator of dealing with "The Lost" as I often put it. Those who have so internalized their attachment issues that they form a critical aspect of their sense of personal identity that they'd refuse to accept the possibility that things can, should, and ought to be better. After all, if they can be better, and the possibility exists that there are other people out there who both are and are perfectly willing to help them be like them, then literally everything they've thought about everyone else they both like and hate is a lie. A damned dirty malicious lie at that. And, like most normal people, that'd make them the "villain" of their own story. Protip: Nobody ever willingly makes themselves the villain. Not in Real Life. Not in their life.

Another way to put it would be to imagine a cynic so cynical that they see every sheep, even the ones any outside observer with "God-Mode" activated know actually are sheep, as but a wolf in a most cunning disguise. You plain and simply can't "help" or "save" someone like that type be damned. You'd need literal and observable divine intervention to manage that miracle.

Thinking people struggle to understand you unless they've been through trauma might be an :Fe:-:Ti: valuing thing. I bet I could understand you in an academic :Te: sense if you honestly told me about your father (as honestly as you can manage anyway as, again, this shit runs on the deepest levels of your subconscious).

Of course, as :Fe: is a thing I gladly toss into the void whereas it is (like anyone's base function) their raison-d'etre we're likely going to have some very different and likely diametrically opposed viewpoints on things like social interactions and how they ought to unfold.

Even so, for anyone who cares or dares to reach out know that I am a benevolent soul. If you think I can help you and you wish to test that possibility the door is open. Unless you are well and truly "lost" I am quite confident in my capacity to do so.

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Originally Posted by Akira

Mb its just easier for ppl to speak in forums.

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I've mentioned the strange fact that "hookers" are often "hired" as therapists (i.e. they get picked up and the "John" just dumps their emotional issues on them without any sex happening or being requested) at a rate most anyone not paying attention to this data point would think possible.

Anonymous internet forums/image boards are like that, but without the direct risk of maybe trying to hire a poser cop who initiates the bust/arrest the instant money changes hands. The John talks a good game and acts his/her part even up to the point of money getting handed over...

Then the gears suddenly shift and they ask to merely lay in their lap as they vent about all the BS they're currently dealing with. Like I said earlier. There is next to zero chance anything, no matter how out there/crazy/reprehensible/sinful/etc. thing you say here or anywhere remotely like here will impact your own personal life as you live it right now. That might be the buffer you need to even mention it or bring it up with literally any other human being.

I mean fuck, if you're not a weeb in any way you aren't seeing this but while I don't have a name for this genre it's a type of thing you can identify that's taking off like an anti-matter fueled rocket. There's a boy and a girl. The girl is just... merely kind to the guy. She's just merely feminine in some way and the guy is just merely masculine in some other way. Imagine two people of reasonable sexual attractiveness on some level merely being nice to each other without even considering the angle of their potential sexual relationship. And that taking off like the aforementioned rocket.

If ya wonder why I'm focusing on this so much that's a damn good reason. How absolutely fucked does your society have to be for the idea of a story where "A boy and a girl are merely kind to each other" is viral to the extent of basically printing money "Escapist" entertainment? That's the "First-World" right now. Food for thought...

It depends on who the recipient is. I think for the most part SEEs have handled it the best when I told them my abuse stories. That is why there is so much affection with semi duals really.

But yeah I have told my abuse stories to the wrong person and they tried to overly punish the offender in ways I didn't like- like obviously two wrongs don't make a right thing to me, and in theory I want to see people who hurt others punished but in reality I don't like that much tbh. Or they completely blamed me, viewed me as 'damaged goods' and tried to use it against me in some way. Usually some corrupt Te authority person does this- as 'anything you say can and will be used against you' lol

But do I regret saying it? No. Not really. I didn't want anything to necessarily 'come out of' saying my abuse stories like some #MeToo Te TED talk politically correct thing. That stuff I loathe anyway. People don't like hearing about it because you can't really control how other people respond. Some people will be like 'you brought that on yourself' or 'well... you were the abusive one too' or they will be like 'oh that's horrible. I genuinely feel bad you had to experience that' or they might try to make it better in ways that make it worse.

But I still don't regret it- because to me it beats being this soulless robotic whore that just buys goods and or services. I refuse to be some easily controlled fag-on-prep whore like that, society can kiss my fucking ass. But yeah nowadays people try to Te-ize abuse way too much and I hate it. Like it doesn't make me feel any better that a person lived through something similiar because the truth of the matter was- it WAS NOT ALL THAT SIMILIAR no matter how Te authority ppl try to say it was.

I'm just calling out for my dual to fuck me and for my semi dual to give me a hug and comfort me. ((and for my Identical bros to share friendship)) Everybody else can go fuck off.

also I obviously like when SLEs are like 'I'm going to abuse and rape you now' to me. It's hot. It's not really abuse and rape cuz I'm consenting.

but of course this thing will get twisted to mean something it isn't by a person with an agenda or a Te social worker trying to get a feather in their cap.

Yeah I'd love to stop real sexual abuse, but I'm also sex positive and naturally perverted genetically. Literally born this way. So the only person who deserves equal rights are Gay Deltards. No thank you.

I mean I'd love to stop wrong-ness and evilness too but if you want to turn the world into an ultra sterile Winnie the Pooh paradise I can't get on board with that. It's like the Avatars on Charmed who tried to kill all "demons" and homosexuals and wrong-doers to make the world a better place. They just instantly killed two males for having a spat- because it would techncially make the world a better place. "They were causing problems" Fuck you, assholes. Glad my sisters put a stop to that shit.

How else will the non-abused know to do something about it? It is better to say something to at least someone. It is better to normalize these conversations, even if it makes others uncomfortable. No one looks at statistics and uses that as a reason to help rape/abuse victims, they have to hear it for themselves.

We should not silence victims of abuse so that others can feel more comfortable. Like many have said already, there is much more nuance to this than a yes/no dichotomy.

I'm always amazed by how much people share online and IRL. Even in my darkest periods I could never bring myself to truly vent. The last time I did that I was 8 or something. I wrote a hateful message towards myself in a notebook, my mom found it and kept berating me for having these thoughts. Like zero support, just "you are a bad person for thinking of yourself in a negative way". To this day I refuse to let anyone walk in my shoes. I solve everything on my own. I prefer to be my own worst critic than to be utterly gutted like that again. But we all have our coping mechanisms. Seeing someone in pain and yet having the strength to share makes me admire them in a way. I just hate it when people make others feel bad for sharing their thoughts or feelings. They were already in a bad place. Your heartless remarks aren't going to make their problems go away.

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Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm always amazed by how much people share online and IRL. Even in my darkest periods I could never bring myself to truly vent. The last time I did that I was 8 or something. I wrote a hateful message towards myself in a notebook, my mom found it and kept berating me for having these thoughts. Like zero support, just "you are a bad person for thinking of yourself in a negative way". To this day I refuse to let anyone walk in my shoes. I solve everything on my own. I prefer to be my own worst critic than to be utterly gutted like that again. But we all have our coping mechanisms. Seeing someone in pain and yet having the strength to share makes me admire them in a way. I just hate it when people make others feel bad for sharing their thoughts or feelings. They were already in a bad place. Your heartless remarks aren't going to make their problems go away.

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You got fucked pretty hard in the attachment issue department. Here's a fun fact potentially relating to this. Say you were a premature birth baby. Now your parents could be the most loving, warm, supportive, and just all around optimal/wonderful people you could hope to be born to. Yet you were born premature and thus spent the first 6 months of your life in a plastic cube where, for the sake of your very survival, your most wonderful parents couldn't even hold you in their arms like they so desperately wanted to.

Your brain will interpret that experience as: "My parents don't love me. I must be some horrible mutant freak. Thus I must not openly share my true wants and desires with anyone. Not even them because if I was 'normal' they'd have held me when I cried so desperately for so long my lungs burned and my eyes cried tears of scarlet." Sadly, no amount of cuddles and kisses after that occurred will magically fix the base issue that you weren't held enough as a child during the first six months of your existence.

Like I've said elsewhere, even grasping these things on the academic :Te: level won't solve them. It's buried in your subconscious as deeply as we assume that the sky is up and water is wet. It's "irrational" in the deepest and most tragic meaning of the term. You can't just read an article, get "convinced" that you're wrong about a given subject, and just live happily ever after. No, I could spell it all out for you and while your conscious mind might agree with me your subconscious will keep screaming at you to never, ever, no not even then, be honest about your needs and desires with anyone you desperately want to bond with/to.

Even now I have to fight against those urges. I know I must be honest with others. I know that things can, ought, and will be better if I just open up even a little bit in this regard. Yet even now it takes an act of what feels like Herculean will to merely utter the words "I want to hang out with you" to mine own (probably dual given our interactions) blood related brother!

Point is, people need to vent and this is about as good a place as you can get save for lucking out and not hiring a cop you thought was a hooker. You can even DM me to increase the safety level. Even IRL my reputation for honesty and "keeping my mouth shut" is legend. I ain't telling anyone shit on basic principle. Devil himself could offer me the world in exchange for that secret and I'd still tell him to go fuck himself.

Sadly (side note), to anyone who paid attention if and when you read that pertinent section of the bible, Jesus never rebuked the Devil and said that such a thing was categorically outside his power to grant. Yes, if Jesus did but fall down and worship Satan he literally could have granted him dominion over all the kingdoms of this Earth. His likewise legendary response was to offer up the very real fact that it profits a man nothing to gain the entire world and yet lose their immortal soul in the process.

I'm digressing but I think it's all still pertinent to this particular discussion. "This" place ain't exactly public. It's "public" in the sense "4chan" is public. So long as you don't post some really hardcore bad shit like earnest death threats and/or porno of the underaged variant you'll face exactly zero IRL repercussions. Again, that's both very good and very bad....

I think this is a good topic/question @roger557 . Not just for online environments but for in general too I think you mean.

Simply considering how it’s not very normalized in society in general, especially in more conservative and repressed ones is very meaningful.

In my personal opinion, I think it should be normalized more, especially in such very conservative societies. Part of why issues get worse in the first place is due to silence and perceived lack of public acceptance or feeling like issues need to be hid.

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Originally Posted by roger557

Well, I think an important step is to distance yourself from the abusers all that you can (especially if these are members of your "family"). However, this is not always easy or possible. Most likely, the best course of action if you are trapped with your abuser(s) is to talk it on the internet, but I guess you have to be careful because if word reaches the abusers that you're talking, they might kill you or something of the sort. The root of the issue I think is that society doesn't protect abused people effectively.

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True. And it’s hard because part of abuse is to do with the abuser making the victims feel unsafe to talk about it as you described, on top of people “outside” the situation generally being too distant and/or powerless to provide effective life-changing intervention needed, and it not being normalized to talk about, so such people who could help would be hard to find and be made aware of it if they are even around.

I don’t consider myself an abuse victim, however I’ve spoken openly on here about my unusually difficult struggles and I fully support those who open up on here. I have always believed that my posts will be helpful for people going through similar experiences or helpful for a person to read who has something in common with me. There are probably a lot of people who don’t have the confidence to post on the forum but still read, and your posts may be read by people many years after you leave. It’s a great space for people to help each other, even indirectly. @Adam Strange liked all my posts when I first joined…which made me feel welcome.

I’ll catch up on the posts in the thread, it’s a good one.

"Talk it with a trusted person or professional only. Then get on with your life without a fuss."

This option is the best one to me. I think you can grow way faster and in the right direction when you hire an excellent professional for literally anything.

I would disclose it publicly to help bring awareness and to help educate the public about it. I would talk to it privately in more depth to help understand it and to help foster healing for myself and another who has been through it. However, personal trauma related to abuse needs to be processed inwardly to understand it, accept it, and to move beyond it. It sucks to go through it but we can grow from even trauma if we process it, forgive it, and allow it to be transmuted for greater compassion and awareness of oneself and others including the abuser. I do believe abusers are likely to have been abused and are unhealed in some way. Doing this helps to break the cycle and to promote evolution of consciousness. It ties with the metaphysical notion that karma acts on inertia and forgiveness puts the breaks on it, eventually putting it to a stop.

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

I think this is a good topic/question @roger557 . Not just for online environments but for in general too I think you mean.

Simply considering how it’s not very normalized in society in general, especially in more conservative and repressed ones is very meaningful.

In my personal opinion, I think it should be normalized more, especially in such very conservative societies. Part of why issues get worse in the first place is due to silence and perceived lack of public acceptance or feeling like issues need to be hid.

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Or, more towards my own point and view, shit gets worse because nobody is actually trying to get at the base issue. Y'know, striking at branches when one ought to be trying to strike at the root and all that.

In a more fully realized "conservative" society issues don't actually get worse due to silence or acceptance. Nor would you really feel a need to hide an issue if it is coming up often enough to be noticed. Indeed, there is a cause they'd have already identified for the disruption and a remedy for it. Failure to apply said remedy for whatever reason is why the problem got worse. And worse, and worse, and worse. As the Buhddists say: "The Lesson will be repeated until it is learned." Also, nobody ever said you couldn't learn a lesson and then forget it somehow down the line and thus necessitating that sad and rather harsh and tragic feedback loop.

To put it another way: Most any "Ideology" of any real significance can actually be directly related to a Christian "Heresy" as it were. The Christian worldview/Faith is far deeper and more complete than any of its avowed opponents dare to draw attention to. Saul of Tarsus, upon deeper thought, went from its most effective persecutor to its most effective evangelist because of this. It's hard as fuck to actually "manipulate" a well-adjusted LSE and yet Paul happened. He didn't get "manipulated" into becoming the author of about half of the New Testament because God is just that good at being an evil PoS. No, God is literally omnibenevolent. Benevolent enough to not only forgive what was, up until that point on the road to Damascus, the most effective murderer of his beloved flock, but to allow him to become from that point on his greatest evangelist.

An effective, practical, and overall ingenious reversal if we assume Satan was playing against him. Took his greatest ally and made into his own. Like executing a perfect strategy in a game or a war and going from "About to lose" to "I take everything and win so hard I make you cry like a bitch" as naturally as one breathes. I've spoken of how God specializes in making something out of nothing and how "evil" is, in the ultimate end, nothing. A lack. From what lacks, from nothing, the one above all creates greater things, greater goods, than what could exist without...

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Originally Posted by End

Or, more towards my own point and view, shit gets worse because nobody is actually trying to get at the base issue. Y'know, striking at branches when one ought to be trying to strike at the root and all that.

In a more fully realized "conservative" society issues don't actually get worse due to silence or acceptance. Nor would you really feel a need to hide an issue if it is coming up often enough to be noticed. Indeed, there is a cause they'd have already identified for the disruption and a remedy for it. Failure to apply said remedy for whatever reason is why the problem got worse. And worse, and worse, and worse. As the Buhddists say: "The Lesson will be repeated until it is learned." Also, nobody ever said you couldn't learn a lesson and then forget it somehow down the line and thus necessitating that sad and rather harsh and tragic feedback loop.

To put it another way: Most any "Ideology" of any real significance can actually be directly related to a Christian "Heresy" as it were. The Christian worldview/Faith is far deeper and more complete than any of its avowed opponents dare to draw attention to. Saul of Tarsus, upon deeper thought, went from its most effective persecutor to its most effective evangelist because of this. It's hard as fuck to actually "manipulate" a well-adjusted LSE and yet Paul happened. He didn't get "manipulated" into becoming the author of about half of the New Testament because God is just that good at being an evil PoS. No, God is literally omnibenevolent. Benevolent enough to not only forgive what was, up until that point on the road to Damascus, the most effective murderer of his beloved flock, but to allow him to become from that point on his greatest evangelist.

An effective, practical, and overall ingenious reversal if we assume Satan was playing against him. Took his greatest ally and made into his own. Like executing a perfect strategy in a game or a war and going from "About to lose" to "I take everything and win so hard I make you cry like a bitch" as naturally as one breathes. I've spoken of how God specializes in making something out of nothing and how "evil" is, in the ultimate end, nothing. A lack. From what lacks, from nothing, the one above all creates greater things, greater goods, than what could exist without...

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Problems are often not recognized and dealt with until they’re identified with words. If you don’t talk about it, how does anyone know something exists? Through interpretive dance?

well trying to ignore the problem and say it's up to God because we're all filthy disgusting sinners isn't hitting the root to me or even the branches. It's missing the entire tree entirely- and the planet and the entire point. Even if you're right we still live in real world with Enneagram Ones who attempt to play God. Good deeds are like filthy rags unto our Lord, but people are naturally sinners and are still gonna try to Good Deed-out of it.

In many cases, "least said, soonest mended" is true - because talking about something just fuels the fire of it. With abuse though I think it's the opposite. It keeps gnawing at u until u say something about it. People try that at first and it doesn't work- didn't work for Charisma Carpenter. I mean I do think she's EII as hell, but I still respect her as a person and believe her and support her.

what is repulsive though is how some people have turned it into a kind of preppy popularity party. and some LA narcs will say it as a way to make everything go their way narcissistically- an abuse is often about an intimate relationship that turns sour there's no such thing as a perfect victim, in many ways yeah, the victim brought it upon themselves due to their own issues and an offender-victim are often unhealthy magnets to each other. although that's not always true either really- its just often something people think to cope with it.

After all, the worst offenders obviously get off on hurting people that deserve it the least, right? That's why people get so disgusted and offended at it. So being like 'well if you were this or this way wouldn't have happened' is stupid just-world fallacy crap and victim blaming. and yeah I don't think punishing the offender does much good because often times their own innocence was abused and they are just repeating the cycle. still necessary at times though.

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

Problems are often not recognized and dealt with until they’re identified with words. If you don’t talk about it, how does anyone know something exists? Through interpretive dance?

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A somewhat indirect response but yeah, that's exactly my point. You never know until you try and all that. The big problem is people tend to think/act as if the interpretive dance is the equivalent of a technical engineer's manual for how a given widget works.

This is likely why I seem to keep finding out that Gamma and Delta types are seemingly more amenable to attachment theory, how and why it works the way it does, and why it deserves more attention. We are the "applied" engineers here. The :Te:/:Fi: axis is perfectly fine with "good enough" as a philosophy. A "full" and "neutral" understanding as :Ti: demands is ultimately nice to have yet also unnecessary in our eyes. Keep it simple stupid. If it works than who the fuck cares about anything else? You can figure out the :Ti:/:Fe: stuff later. Right now? Now there's a big friggin' problem and it needs to be dealt with right the fuck now and to hell with some rando's "feelings" on the matter!

For the :Ti:/:Fe: types, well, they give a fuck about who cares and that frustrates them in their interactions with the others. The last part of the former paragraph reeks of some arrogant asshole who is likely about to go for a "solution" that has exactly zero chance of success! Their short-sightedness and disregard for the "community" will doom us all!

Hell. This is basically the direct lament of the author of a book I'm currently reading about this. The "Researchers" are going hard on this while the "Humanists" and others who are most prone to becoming actual practicing therapists have and are waving them off as quacks and crazies. (Funny enough I started getting into this due to my reading of what I think is a Gamma SF social type who just so happened to also be a practicing psychotherapist).

Why? Well, let's put it this way. If an "applied" engineer smells anything that remotely reminds them of a cache of top-notch duct tape, WD40, and some downright artisan crafted pipe/adjustable wrenches you can bet your left nut they'll pursue that even if they aren't technically part of that field because, as fellow applied engineers, they'd have really appreciated it if someone had handed them such a cache when they first started.

I think the conflict between :Te: and :Ti: is what's really holding these insights back if I must be honest. I think I'm liking the work I'm currently reading as it's a :Ti: type trying to get and apply what a :Te: type is (or rather, would) be applying if they shared the same profession. Y'know, a technical engineer trying to translate to his fellow technical engineers what the applied engineers are saying to them in such a way that won't piss them off and/or offend their innate sensibilities. After all, "Percussive Maintenace" is a cardinal sin amongst the technical crowd while it's a holy sacrament among the applied crowd. Hitting it really hard tends to yield positive results more often than not in my experience but hey, I get the supposed risk of damaging the overall mechanism it entails and why they'd worry so much about that. Good think I know exactly how to bash that engine nice and gentile :).

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Originally Posted by End

A somewhat indirect response but yeah, that's exactly my point. You never know until you try and all that. The big problem is people tend to think/act as if the interpretive dance is the equivalent of a technical engineer's manual for how a given widget works.

This is likely why I seem to keep finding out that Gamma and Delta types are seemingly more amenable to attachment theory, how and why it works the way it does, and why it deserves more attention. We are the "applied" engineers here. The :Te:/:Fi: axis is perfectly fine with "good enough" as a philosophy. A "full" and "neutral" understanding as :Ti: demands is ultimately nice to have yet also unnecessary in our eyes. Keep it simple stupid. If it works than who the fuck cares about anything else? You can figure out the :Ti:/:Fe: stuff later. Right now? Now there's a big friggin' problem and it needs to be dealt with right the fuck now and to hell with some rando's "feelings" on the matter!

For the :Ti:/:Fe: types, well, they give a fuck about who cares and that frustrates them in their interactions with the others. The last part of the former paragraph reeks of some arrogant asshole who is likely about to go for a "solution" that has exactly zero chance of success! Their short-sightedness and disregard for the "community" will doom us all!

Hell. This is basically the direct lament of the author of a book I'm currently reading about this. The "Researchers" are going hard on this while the "Humanists" and others who are most prone to becoming actual practicing therapists have and are waving them off as quacks and crazies. (Funny enough I started getting into this due to my reading of what I think is a Gamma SF social type who just so happened to also be a practicing psychotherapist).

Why? Well, let's put it this way. If an "applied" engineer smells anything that remotely reminds them of a cache of top-notch duct tape, WD40, and some downright artisan crafted pipe/adjustable wrenches you can bet your left nut they'll pursue that even if they aren't technically part of that field because, as fellow applied engineers, they'd have really appreciated it if someone had handed them such a cache when they first started.

I think the conflict between :Te: and :Ti: is what's really holding these insights back if I must be honest. I think I'm liking the work I'm currently reading as it's a :Ti: type trying to get and apply what a :Te: type is (or rather, would) be applying if they shared the same profession. Y'know, a technical engineer trying to translate to his fellow technical engineers what the applied engineers are saying to them in such a way that won't piss them off and/or offend their innate sensibilities. After all, "Percussive Maintenace" is a cardinal sin amongst the technical crowd while it's a holy sacrament among the applied crowd. Hitting it really hard tends to yield positive results more often than not in my experience but hey, I get the supposed risk of damaging the overall mechanism it entails and why they'd worry so much about that. Good think I know exactly how to bash that engine nice and gentile :).

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It seems like you completely misunderstood my facetious comment. I just meant that no, people can’t begin to deal with anything at all, whether it’s broadly and efficiently or in an over complicated manner, unless it’s talked about.

But, I agree with what you said basically on the differences between these types and how problems should just be tackled generally first before details are fussed over. A lot of alpha SF-run communities tend to be full of hen-pecking and obsession on appropriateness like this that gets in the way of any form of solutions. This kind of behavior makes people shut up and not feel like talking or believing things can be solved even more.

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

It seems like you completely misunderstood my facetious comment. I just meant that no, people can’t begin to deal with anything at all, whether it’s broadly and efficiently or in an over complicated manner, unless it’s talked about.

But, I agree with what you said basically on the differences between these types and how problems should just be tackled generally first before details are fussed over. A lot of alpha SF-run communities tend to be full of hen-pecking and obsession on appropriateness like this that gets in the way of any form of solutions. This kind of behavior makes people shut up and not feel like talking or believing things can be solved even more.

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I forget the author but they gave each quadra a "complex" and what you say fits perfectly. Alpha's are cursed with "Closed Mouths" while Gammas like myself are cursed with "Tied Hands" as it were. It's people who refuse to open their mouths because of :Fe: BS that keep enormous problems from getting solved and/or caring more about :Fe: BS over what are objectively bigger problems.

For instance, the state of California is currently dumping tons of fresh water into the ocean to preserve an "endangered" species. Now it's facing a water shortage that'll impact vital/staple crop production. The obvious answer to this problem is to simply let that species get fucked "in the wild" and reroute all that fresh water towards the farmlands rather than preserve said endangered species in the wild and instead focus on preserving them in a zoo as you stop dumping all that fresh water straight into the ocean where it... merely keeps an ill adapted species functional in a region it clearly wasn't meant to be at this current place in history.

California is what I see as a parody of Alpha world however. An example of what would happen if you attempted to write a dystopian novel based on a quadra's given complex. Can't say anything you truly feel there as :Fi: sentiments aren't exactly protected by "de facto" rule of law if they go against "the narrative" as I term it. :Fi: is great there. So long as it's the "correct" :Fi: that just so happens to perfectly coincide with the overall :Fe: atmosphere that is...

Might have to do just that myself. A series of dystopian novels as would be realized by each quadra run through a modern/updated lens. After all, Orwell and Huxley didn't know a damn thing about Orbital Rings, Lagrange Points, or O'Neil Cylinders. Logically speaking, that shit would matter in both the brightest and darkest of futures :).

When I was younger, I used to talk in public but now... I'd feel like if I do that , then I will be insulting myself , so I talk about it only to my penpal friends.

+ I feel free to talk about it here since nobody knows me irl

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Originally Posted by decqueen

When I was younger, I used to talk in public but now... I'd feel like if I do that , then I will be insulting myself , so I talk about it only to my penpal friends.

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For me it’s the pitying that makes it unbearable. Then other times I can see it in their eyes “thank God that isn’t me”

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Originally Posted by Ibreen

For me it’s the pitying that makes it unbearable. Then other times I can see it in their eyes “thank God that isn’t me”

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This might be a dumb and bad place to ask this question, but why does being pitied bother you (and people in general, do you think)?

Because I feel like the alternative is just someone not understanding and not sympathizing with your plight at all, which is much worse isn’t it?

Abuse is talked about more now than ever. Especially with the age of dialup being over. Lol

With that being said, I can only see talking about it being more and more normalized as time goes on, especially with influencers and whatnot making it kind of a “trend” now. Sure, some of it might seem like attention seeking, but it’s good if it’s letting others feel more comfortable about opening up. The more people talk about their experiences, the more awareness/reformation it will bring to the community.

And yeah, everyone heals at their own pace, in their own way, which is totally fine. It’s also fine if one chooses not to ever talk about it, because alas— their story, not ours. It cannot be denied however that the taboo of talking about such subjects will eventually disappear, slowly but surely over time, thankfully.

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

This might be a dumb and bad place to ask this question, but why does being pitied bother you (and people in general, do you think)?

Because I feel like the alternative is just someone not understanding and not sympathizing with your plight at all, which is much worse isn’t it?

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Because it makes me feel weak. The alternative is not talking about it.

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Originally Posted by Ibreen

Because it makes me feel weak. The alternative is not talking about it.

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Do you think that people who pity you think that you are weak?

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

Do you think that people who pity you think that you are weak?

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Yes. You feel pity towards an injured kitten, not an injured lion

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Originally Posted by Ibreen

Yes. You feel pity towards an injured kitten, not an injured lion

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I see what you mean with that, and it makes sense. I guess though that people aren’t kittens and lions, we’re all people and we have much more fundamental similarity than kittens vs. lions. People tend to have a core of strength in them and a particular passing situation usually can’t take that away. If someone is pitying you that much I’d wager it’s because they don’t fully understand that, the situation, and/or you.

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

I see what you mean with that, and it makes sense. I guess though that people aren’t kittens and lions, we’re all people and we have much more fundamental similarity than kittens vs. lions. People tend to have a core of strength in them and a particular passing situation usually can’t take that away. If someone is pitying you that much I’d wager it’s because they don’t fully understand that, the situation, and/or you.

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You type as LII?

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Originally Posted by Ibreen

You type as LII?

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ILI for now but I’m open to if you want to DM about it ;)

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

ILI for now but I’m open to if you want to DM about it ;)

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Hm? No. I don’t DM anyone

the way you write a paragraph sounds polr Se, you talk without saying anything at all. And you sound as smooth as an LII.

in other words, don’t try me

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Originally Posted by Ibreen

Hm? No. I don’t DM anyone

the way you write a paragraph sounds polr Se, you talk without saying anything at all. And you sound as smooth as an LII.

in other words, don’t try me

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I have a big pile of noods waiting to be VI’d, such a shame

It's a personal choice. There is not one “right” or “wrong” way that one “should” or “should not” do. There are only healthy or unhealthy motives.

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Originally Posted by Ibreen

Yes. You feel pity towards an injured kitten, not an injured lion

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Respectfully, different people react in different ways. Personally, I have empathy for both, and pity for neither.

Alternatively, it can be seen as weak to be unable to talk about it comfortably. It's really just a matter of subjective opinion. The only wrong is in assuming and accusing someone of something (such as being weak) without having evidence. Speaking out is actually the only way to counter this stigma. However, most people assume that having gone through a lot of shit means you are a strong person. (That is not necessarily true, either.)

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Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon

Do you think that people who pity you think that you are weak?

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Pity entails looking down on someone, so by definition, yes. Sympathy, empathy, compassion, pity...these words all mean different things.

It really depends on people.

Some need to expose it to the public to give it enough substance to rip it off.
Some are still living in abuse and it became their whole life, so if they talk about their life they talk about abuse.
Some turn in circle repeating the same stuff endlessly and nothing ever happens.
Some feel too ashamed to speak up and would grow by daring to do it.
Some are pushed by peers and may not want to go public but do it to fit in.
Some don't know how else to deal with it beside go public because it is all they know.
Some want to talk but have nothing to talk about beside trauma.
That's just a few reasons to go public I could think of, and not all of them are great and help in healing.

It's a complexe issue since a good reason can turn into a bad one, and vice versa, and the person might fail to notice, but hey, gotta learn some way or another.

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Originally Posted by adage

It really depends on people.

Some need to expose it to the public to give it enough substance to rip it off.
Some are still living in abuse and it became their whole life, so if they talk about their life they talk about abuse.
Some turn in circle repeating the same stuff endlessly and nothing ever happens.
Some feel too ashamed to speak up and would grow by daring to do it.
Some are pushed by peers and may not want to go public but do it to fit in.
Some don't know how else to deal with it beside go public because it is all they know.
Some want to talk but have nothing to talk about beside trauma.
That's just a few reasons to go public I could think of, and not all of them are great and help in healing.

It's a complexe issue since a good reason can turn into a bad one, and vice versa, and the person might fail to notice, but hey, gotta learn some way or another.

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Some hide it to give it enough substance too

It isn't the best idea to share such a thing on a public forum, specially because you can be sued for defamation, and if you lack proof of the abuse the proper thing to do is to trust the "abuser".

Ideally you should share it with a trustee, but a trustee can be trusted due to poor judgement and use such sensible information to extort you, threaten you, humilliate or laugh at you etc.

Optimally you should open that up with a psychologist or a priest, if anything.

I think it's up to the person, but I also don't think anyone should feel like this is some kind of civic duty. I also notice people publically revealing/claiming they had been abused on social media, the media, etc (beyond the scope of this forum), and while I suppose people are free to do what they want, people don't "owe" anyone these accounts either. I think some people do it to warn others, when they have been abused, some do it to defame (whether or not they have been abused), others to break silence (which is healthy to do) so I could see the value in it but I also don't think it should be an obligation.

I think everyone is abused, if you consider things like verbal abuse and the like. You don't need to go tell that on the mountain. In fact, it's probably counterproductive. I think you just tell people who it would be relevant that someone said or did something mean to you to, or who might have groped you or whatever, just tell who can care. Not everyone can care every time someone does something mean or bad even if they want to, sadly, and I still don't have a high opinion of the average person, who I think would probably like to bring everyone down on some level. The lowest common denominator of humankind is literally zero.

Honestly it’s fine if people want to talk about it but they need to be mindful of /triggering/ content bc it may remind others of their own abuse. Though they should be mindful that not everyone wants to hear that. After all, many people have been abused, but not everyone should be expected to speak out about their abuse, and this is one of my biggest peeves in fandoms and communities who are so entitled that they just expect famous people to be open about everything they’ve been through.

What I loathe though is people who rant about their abuse all the time like some angry Karen or SJW scum screaming about how this “reminds them of their abuse” and “you’re just like my abuser” bullshit because you like, denied them a cheez it or something trivial like that. Really fucking kills the mood.


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