myresearch's typing thread

My current type is LII. However, some things doesn't match up, hence I start to have doubts.

The other probable types are: ILE, LSI, SLI, ILI. If you think I am some other type, I am open to hear it.

The general overview of my conclusion is based on this:

All through my life, I conciously and unconciously changed my behaviors drastically. Eventhough I am the same, in the same environment, talking in the same way, I have been called warm and cold, detailed oriented and big picture person, etc, etc. I can see how I can be both. However, there is one thing that remains unchanged and that is my analytical thinking skills. I am always sure on my ability to figure things out. I have been told I am too good at it all my life. Hence I think I have a strong non ignoring Ti. I break things apart and built logical systems based on it.


I don't think I have 4D Te, because I am not a super active person. I can stay in my home for a long time. I don't have to be in motion all the time. I don't have to get things done all the time. However, I thought some ILEs can be like this. This is partially why I thought I have low Se.

About Se-polr, I never had any problems with speaking up, standing up for myself or others. I can push others, I get into conflicts, sometimes I start them. I sometimes make people comply with me.

About Fi-polr, I have relationships :D I can be polite and distant in the inital stages or in serious environments. I have my moral judgements, I know my attitude over things.

About Fe polr, I like emotionally exchangeable environments where I can be accepted, I prefer things to be inclusive. I like to be provoked and provoke in emotional sense.

About Ne polr, if I haven't done a thing before, I think I can do it and I say it. I am good at changing my perspective when I am evaluating something. I am open minded.

If I get typed, these things have to be cleared for me anyways, so if anyone has an opinion, I would appreciate it.

I will give more examples later.

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450

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Originally Posted by myresearch

My current type is LII. However, some things doesn't match up, hence I start to have doubts.

The other probable types are: ILE, LSI, SLI, ILI. If you think I am some other type, I am open to hear it.

The general overview of my conclusion is based on this:

All through my life, I conciously and unconciously changed my behaviors drastically. Eventhough I am the same, in the same environment, talking in the same way, I have been called warm and cold, detailed oriented and big picture person, etc, etc. I can see how I can be both. However, there is one thing that remains unchanged and that is my analytical thinking skills. I am always sure on my ability to figure things out. I have been told I am too good at it all my life. Hence I think I have a strong non ignoring Ti. I break things apart and built logical systems based on it.


I don't think I have 4D Te, because I am not a super active person. I can stay in my home for a long time. I don't have to be in motion all the time. I don't have to get things done all the time. However, I thought some ILEs can be like this. This is partially why I thought I have low Se.

About Se-polr, I never had any problems with speaking up, standing up for myself or others. I can push others, I get into conflicts, sometimes I start them. I sometimes make people comply with me.

About Fi-polr, I have relationships :D I can be polite and distant in the inital stages or in serious environments. I have my moral judgements, I know my attitude over things.

About Fe polr, I like emotionally exchangeable environments where I can be accepted, I prefer things to be inclusive. I like to be provoked and provoke in emotional sense.

About Ne polr, if I haven't done a thing before, I think I can do it and I say it. I am good at changing my perspective when I am evaluating something. I am open minded.

If I get typed, these things have to be cleared for me anyways, so if anyone has an opinion, I would appreciate it.

I will give more examples later.

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Nah. You're LII. If you were ILE, you would've mentioned something external yet you kept your message concise and exclusively about yourself. This isn't a bad thing.

As for ILI or SLI, you're too "merry". You empathize, put yourself in other's shoes and objectively make it a point to wish them happiness an emotionally charged way. You value Fe

Your curiosity tells me you're probably not LSI. You seem to enjoy when others are curious. IMO, you're an NT researcher.

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Originally Posted by Stray Cat

Nah. You're LII. If you were ILE, you would've mentioned something external yet you kept your message concise and exclusively about yourself. This isn't a bad thing.

As for ILI or SLI, you're too "merry". You empathize, put yourself in other's shoes and objectively make it a point to wish them happiness an emotionally charged way. You value Fe

Your curiosity tells me you're probably not LSI. You seem to enjoy when others are curious. IMO, you're an NT researcher.

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I am keeping LII still because I think it is more probable. However, I appreciate if you can explain how I can be Se-polr. Otherwise my doubts are going to remain where they are.

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450

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I can get typed by a proffesional, but I still expect to understand how I fit into the theory.

VI can solve it but I have to understand to believe it.

Do you have a plan for the rest of your life? What happens when/if it all falls apart?
@myresearch

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

Do you have a plan for the rest of your life? What happens when/if it all falls apart?

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I don't have a plan for rest of my life. However, I have a career plans. I want to work for myself, start a company, but if that doesn't work out, I want to try to work in a startup instead of corporates. I have seen lots of different corporates due to my previous job.

I think it takes too much time to excel and I want to manage my own thing and I want to earn more, that's why I chose this. I plan to work at startup if this doesn't work out, because you can earn and excel faster in startups, also I think working conditions may suit me more but I am not sure about it.

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

What happens when/if it all falls apart?

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Then I would find a way out.

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Originally Posted by one

Did you make a post like this before already??? And did Eud also post the same link?

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:shifty: Noo, you are just Ni'ing :D

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Originally Posted by one

Btw I don't think you are TeFi

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Me neither, but I am open for anything if it makes the perfect sense right now, so I also mentioned them in case anyone sees something.

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Originally Posted by myresearch

I am keeping LII still because I think it is more probable. However, I appreciate if you can explain how I can be Se-polr. Otherwise my doubts are going to remain where they are.

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My theory on Se-Polr is that LIIs can be forceful when they know they have to. An LII buddy is an MMA fighter. Generally, he's relatively jolly, non-aggressive but as an MMA fighter he will have a fight scheduled for a particular date. IME, estimation he can use Se in a particular fashion if he understands when and why he's doing it.

I'd also say that EII can often justify their Se-Polr when they fight for their country. They value Te but the violence in battle is necessary. An EII will utilize Se as part of their duty in a particular instance.

That's my take

You seem similar to my friend and colleague who is an LII, down to the subtype LII-C that usually doesn't think of themselves as having Se polr.

Your concerns are very result oriented.

You seem to have lowered concern for Ne as it seems to function more as an accessory. This seems pretty interesting and confuses people.

LII

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Originally Posted by myresearch

I don't have a plan for rest of my life. However, I want to have a career plans. I want to work for myself, start a company, but if that doesn't work out, I want to try to work in a startup instead of corporates. I have seen lots of different corporates due to my previous job.

I think it takes too much time to excel and I want to manage my own thing and I want to earn more, that's why I chose this. I plan to work at startup if this doesn't work out, because you can earn and excel better in startup companies, also I think working conditions may suit me more but I am not sure about it.

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What is the point to what you are doing? Why leave corporate life and manage your own thing, where does it end? Is it primarily money, independence, or something else? What motivates you to work toward this?

Why do you prefer to work in a startup over a corporation, do you want to be rise up the ladder faster and hold a high position in a growing company? What happens when it grows to a corporate level?

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

What is the point to what you are doing? Why leave corporate life and manage your own thing, where does it end? Is it primarily money, independence, or something else? What motivates you to work toward this?

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It is mainly independence. I can be independent in other ways as well, by spending less for example, keeping my life standards to some level. However, I want to access everything I want, I want to do whatever I want also and money is a great tool for that.

I actually don't want to own too expensive big things such as super luxuary house right now. Ofcourse I want it, but it is not that important, however, I want to have the money in case I want or need such a thing.

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

Why do you prefer to work in a startup over a corporation, do you want to be rise up the ladder faster and hold a high position in a growing company? What happens when it grows to a corporate level?

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Corporates generally look at your work experience, how many years you worked, so it doesnt matter what you do. I want to be in a place that provides me something when I do much more than expected. Because I don't want to fill my hours and get a life after work. If my work doesn't mean anything to me, which I learned it doesn't, because unfortunately it is all transactional. Then it can mean something to me, if I think I am improving myself, if it is challenging and if I get some salary and position in return.

When I was younger than 9 yo. I knew every kid in my neighborhood, I was the game maker, kind a like leader, I standed up for the skinny short kids who got bullied, but I never bullied anyone. I generally played outside with other kids.

After 9 yo, I hang out in the house myself, after 11 yo, I went everywhere by myself and start to do everything by myself, I have taken different courses, both of my parents were working, that's why we chose this way.

When I was younger than 11 yo. I was very witty, talkative, outspoken, sometimes blunt, I talked without filter. However, I was always good at keeping secrets, maybe due to my family. Then I thought saying something can be used against me and talked with a filter, people start to describe me as silent time to time.

After 14 yo, something happened and due to previous things, I didn't want to interact with anyone, I started to talk with people on intellectual things only. I read a book a day, I was into different kinds of art, I have done it and consumed it, I have spent 4 years mainly on intellectual things. I daydreamed a lot in this period.

I was and I am a bit manipulative:

As a 7 yo, my friend's mother dropped my friend to our house, because she has to be somewhere. She was screaming and saying that she hates all people and life. Her mother and my mother tried to convience her to get in. However, she wasn't. I checked what was going on, then return to my room. Some good time passed, I thought my mother was getting frustrated. So I went and said to my friend that lets prepare a poison to X kid(the kid who got bullied the most). Then she immediately get inside. I said it because I knew it will get her in. We prepared something but we didn't actually make him drink and poison the poor kid :D

Looks like you live quite dominant sub phase atm but it kind of consumes you.

Only other type I've considered for you is LSI. As you seem to get along well with Beta NFs and I could see Ne PoLR the most out of those other ones, I think.

Main reason I thought LSI over LII is that you come across more confident than a lot of LIIs I know- but that can also vary within type & DCNH type etc. So I think you are probably LII but if you weren't - LSI would be my guess.

I think your Ixxj temperment is rather pretty pure and obvious. :content: And I can't really see you in a Fi valuing quadra either.

@myresearch I don't know about what your type is but you are a really interesting person to learn about, that's for sure. I hope things work out for you.

Personally....I think LII. I have thought LSI BUT! You are wayyyy to crafty and flexible for an LSI (no offense to LSI's). That, and I think you would do better with someone who has some grounded Si and 4D Se.

These isolated examples don't dissuade me from Se PoLR. I see no semblance of loyalty to any particular way of thought, which I would expect from an LSI. You clearly use Ne to screen others on the forum, you've admitted to it yourself. As for being a leader at times, or standing up for yourself, being a well actuated adult can play a role, Ti base can play a role, D or C subtype can play a role, the multifaceted expression of PoLR can play a role, etc.

You are never going to be sure if you don't allow for some flex with how you interpret the I.E.'s, trust me. Ask yourself if anything we say can really eliminate the nagging uncertainty you feel, for me I realized it wouldn't if I didn't trust myself first.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

These isolated examples don't dissuade me from Se PoLR. I see no semblance of loyalty to any particular way of thought, which I would expect from an LSI. You clearly use Ne to screen others on the forum, you've admitted to it yourself. As for being a leader at times, or standing up for yourself, being a well actuated adult can play a role, Ti base can play a role, D or C subtype can play a role, the multifaceted expression of PoLR can play a role, etc.

You are never going to be sure if you don't allow for some flex with how you interpret the I.E.'s, trust me.

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There are other aspects of Ne and Se that I use and there are aspects of them that I don't use and like. I don't know how much should I reveal, I don't want reveal unnecessary amount of info. I think some may be too personal, I also can be judged (probably Fi role holding me back). I am going to reveal little by little to see if a person sees something I don't or what people think according to shared info.

Worst case scenario, I would be putting out there, so people can see some version of my type here in the future. Maybe that would nake it easier for them, if they resonate with this version.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

Ask yourself if anything we say can really eliminate the nagging uncertainty you feel, for me I realized it wouldn't if I didn't trust myself first.

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I don't know, we have to try to see it, I think sometimes people can surprise us in a good way. Why don't you open a typing thread and try me :p

I typed myself LII at first and sticked to it. Although, I got some feedback from others irl that contradicts with the type, I brushed it off. Ti-doms or Ti-egos generally decide for themselves but I think everyone may benefit from getting additional feedback.

You are very LII to me, because you support numerous ways to interpret things logically.

With Ne and Ti ego, I get an underlying message of "don't shoehorn this thing if it has characteristics/qualities of its own right, which separate it from the rest"
That's how Ne ideas keep on branching out, and something like a socionics IE can be viewed in a different light. e.g. Both Ni and Ne are used when we predict movie plots.

What is your speaking style like, when you discuss something you feel competent in?

Something I noticed with Ben Vaserlan (LII) is that as he refers to his own system of types (or describes a feature/position of IEs), he'll draw a previously unknown to him connection.

He will talk about Artisans SPs in Kiersey's system and their language style having a focus on consonant use - next connection he draws is that many musicians/singers have an Artisan temperament. There will be more unplanned things "uncovered" in this style as he speaks, with the end takeaway being that the video lecture is rich in detail but sometimes hard to follow if he doesn't return soon to the main point. The details he points out are interesting enough to become their own dedicated video. Is that anything like your speech in real life - do you go on tangents? :)

You're obviously LIE to me. No idea why you type as LII or how anyone could come to that conclusion.

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Originally Posted by thistle

You are very LII to me, because you support numerous ways to interpret things logically.

With Ne and Ti ego, I get an underlying message of "don't shoehorn this thing if it has characteristics/qualities of its own right, which separate it from the rest"
That's how Ne ideas keep on branching out, and something like a socionics IE can be viewed in a different light. e.g. Both Ni and Ne are used when we predict movie plots.

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I agree and I think I fit to this.

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Originally Posted by thistle

What is your speaking style like, when you discuss something you feel competent in?

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It depends . I can get into details to point something to make a point. I can also connect what I discuss with another thing to make a point. I can get into some layers further to discuss it.

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Originally Posted by thistle

Something I noticed with Ben Vaserlan (LII) is that as he refers to his own system of types (or describes a feature/position of IEs), he'll draw a previously unknown to him connection.

He will talk about Artisans SPs in Kiersey's system and their language style having a focus on consonant use - next connection he draws is that many musicians/singers have an Artisan temperament. There will be more unplanned things "uncovered" in this style as he speaks, with the end takeaway being that the video lecture is rich in detail but sometimes hard to follow if he doesn't return soon to the main point. The details he points out are interesting enough to become their own dedicated video. Is that anything like your speech in real life - do you go on tangents? :)

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I think I can. In comparison to ENFx though, I am nothing :D For me, they sometimes jump from topic to topic too much in a way it is hard to track and misses the main point. Some also use it in a way to change the topic and perception of others.

Ne draws parallels and Ti makes connections. It is sometimes difficult to seperate them, this is the reason of my main confusion. LSIs also do some of the things I thought I did it because of Ne. For example on this forum, LSIs can share movie/tv series scene in order to illustrate the situation. I thought using completely another material to make a point was TiNe but I was wrong.

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Originally Posted by FrassatiLo

You're obviously LIE to me. No idea why you type as LII or how anyone could come to that conclusion.

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I would love to be one, being LIE would work for me than other types now. However, I don't think I can be Te-dom. I also don't think I am energetic as EJ temperament.

I figure things on my own, complex systems. I can get into something very much purely to understand it better and enhance my comprehension, even it is not useful to me.

I wouldn't describe myself as productive at all times. When I am given a job, although I can get good feedback by doing less, I sometimes overwork just because I want to do the job better in a way that I want. Although, there is nothing to gain from that. I don't know if you worked with a LIE but they don't do that.

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Originally Posted by myresearch

Ne draws parallels and Ti makes connections. It is sometimes difficult to seperate them, this is the reason of my main confusion. LSIs also do some of the things I thought I did it because of Ne. For example on this forum, LSIs can share movie/tv series scene in order to illustrate the situation. I thought using completely another material to make a point was TiNe but I was wrong.

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All this time I have thought that Ne is the function which acknowledges the connection of one thing to another, shared qualities so Ti can classify what they are. I'm confused by it too.

When LSIs are posting movie/tv scenes to illustrate the situation, is it a form of pop culture reference? If it is, I wonder if it's a mood/prevalent emotion that they recognise in the environment that matches what the video clip portrays? So can it relate to shared recognition and valuing of Fe.

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Originally Posted by myresearch

It depends . I can get into details to point something to make a point. I can also connect what I discuss with another thing to make a point. I can get into some layers further to discuss it.

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I can't help but think that someone who can't keep up with layers of a discussion might begin to believe there is a tangent...

How do you relate to SI? @myresearch

Ok, so I'm in my own rabbit hole of dechipring decipherers. :shifty:
Jung's style represents Ti and instructional moves represents Te.

I found this particular interesting.
Ti (LII) [Seems quite Jung-ish person]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FynspPaAr6k
Te (ILI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SxlI0yv6lI

A description forms aka Ti (packs -> unpacks). So I'd say there is a vector that looks for a reference point. It has to establish a connection. There is a chance that you want to share it (Fe).
A formulation describes aka Te (unpacked-> packed). This a lot like physics out there. You might want to condense it. It is your own hellish rat race. You may also want to trust/bond with it (Fi).

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Originally Posted by thistle

When LSIs are posting movie/tv scenes to illustrate the situation, is it a form of pop culture reference? If it is, I wonder if it's a mood/prevalent emotion that they recognise in the environment that matches what the video clip portrays? So can it relate to shared recognition and valuing of Fe.

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I think it is exactly that, pop culture reference. However, I don't know how this is different than any other kind of reference. If someone can do this, they can do other kind of references for other things if they get into it.

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Originally Posted by rtht

How do you relate to SI?

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I don't like to cook or do house chores. I don't do those everyday. However, sometimes I do, I generally cook things that doesn't take too much time and effort. I sometimes order takeouts and eat outside in a row though.

I generally have some kind of routine, especially after covid :D

I generally like to look at harmonious, aesthetic things.

I enjoy relaxation but not always.

When I am at comfortable state, I tend to stay there, when I am on ready state, I tend to stay there. It is generally difficult to change my state.

If I am at comfortable state, I know how to make myself comfortable. However, if I am working, studying, then I can forget to eat, drink water for a long time, I remember it when it is too late :D

I can sit on uncomfortable positions if I am captivated by something I do.

I don't get enough sleep sometimes. I can neglect these kind of things.

There have been different times in my life. On some periods, people said I am going to die and right after that period, I was like a health freak. Now I am in between.

I generally do things in extreme ways. For example, if I do a diet, I never eat anything I shouldn't. I generally go all or nothing. I am not good at moderation. This could be due to nature or nurture.

When I am sick I sometimes ignore what I feel and sometimes I react less, show it less, continue as before. When I was a kid, when I was physically injured in a bad way, it didn't feel that bad, I never cried or reacted as people around me. One of my ex was getting sick a lot, we go to hospital, I also sometimes took tests, his tests were negative, mine were positive :D

Although I dont always take care of it in a best way. I think health matters the most, I dont know what would I do if I get permanently sick or injured. We can solve everything but not that.

I’ve been confused about Ne and Ti too, before. I think what helped me the most realize what Ti was,was subteigh once said that goodreads is very Ti in how they recommend books, books that are similar to what you are reading. Genre. Music genres and what makes a genera a genre, the elements present in it, the similarities. So simply remembering something and placing it in that category is just Ti and not Ne

So someone correct me if im wrong here, but Ne is like combining two ideas, almost like two parents having a child. And then having multiple children. And all the children are Products of Ne. Ti wouldn’t be combining them, but instead defining them in categories by their similarities, like gender, personality traits, anything really ???

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Originally Posted by myresearch

I don't like to cook or do house chores. I don't do those everyday. However, sometimes I do, I generally cook things that doesn't take too much time and effort. I sometimes order takeouts and eat outside in a row though.

When I am at comfortable state, I tend to stay there

if I am working, studying, then I can forget to eat, drink water for a long time, I remember it when it is too late :D

I can sit on uncomfortable positions if I am captivated by something I do.

I don't get enough sleep sometimes. I can neglect these kind of things.

There have been different times in my life. On some periods, people said I am going to die and right after that period, I was like a health freak. Now I am in between.

Although I dont always take care of it in a best way. I think health matters the most, I dont know what would I do if I get permanently sick or injured. We can solve everything but not that.

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Yeah It does seem like you could probably rule out LSI, who has SI demo..... and 3D valued SE (you tend to stay in comfy states)

I think LII is still probably good for you.... you seem to need a bit of help with SI...... and you just seem rational>irrational to me...... :content:

I think LII is fine. I’ve never noticed anything inconsistent with that type that’s made me question it. :) :shrug:

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Originally Posted by reverie

I’ve been confused about Ne and Ti too, before. I think what helped me the most realize what Ti was,was subteigh once said that goodreads is very Ti in how they recommend books, books that are similar to what you are reading. Genre. Music genres and what makes a genera a genre, the elements present in it, the similarities. So simply remembering something and placing it in that category is just Ti and not Ne

So someone correct me if im wrong here, but Ne is like combining two ideas, almost like two parents having a child. And then having multiple children. And all the children are Products of Ne. Ti wouldn’t be combining them, but instead defining them in categories by their similarities, like gender, personality traits, anything really ???

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IEE describes a tool that she use, she says it is like a mixer, she puts all ingredients (means different kinds of data) in it and then takes the juice (result). She is able to form that analogy because she sees them similar although she is Ti polr.

When Ti makes connections, it can also combine. Probably would not be like a child, however, if typology is Ti, then it might.

These things overlap with each other.

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Originally Posted by reverie

I think LII is fine. I’ve never noticed anything inconsistent with that type that’s made me question it. :) :shrug:

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I appreciate if you can explain how I can be Se-polr, because I am seeing inconsistencies.

I think @myresearch is an LII, but at the risk of annoying everyone I want to bring psychosophy into this. I think you are 1st Will in psychosophy and that's where a lot of the confusion about this Se PoLR stuff is coming from.

I think your type is "Socrates" WLEP. 1st Will, 2nd Logic, 3rd Emotion, 4th Physics.

I know people hate it but I think it can be used in conjunction with Socionics to explain differences in type.

I am in comparison "Ahmatova" WELP. I think I recognize a lot of similarities between us that come from having 1st will.

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Originally Posted by myresearch

IEE describes a tool that she use, she says it is like a mixer, she puts all ingredients (means different kinds of data) in it and then takes the juice (result). She is able to form that analogy because she sees them similar although she is Ti polr.When Ti makes connections, it can also combine. Probably would not be like a child, however, if typology is Ti, then it might.These things overlap with each other.

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ughhh! just when I thought maybe I was on to something. Tbh I’m still confused and don’t entirely understand. I think I understand now better than I did before, but I’m still waiting on the rest of it to click… :shifty:

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I appreciate if you can explain how I can be Se-polr, because I am seeing inconsistencies.

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you could be LSI. It’s the internet and I don’t really like to be that certain over the internet…and you seem to come off fairly neutral in that you don’t really send me any really strong vibes about anything. For instance, I did think you were a guy for a while :lol: Some people type things and then they do/say things really inconsistent with that type or I just see inconsistency after inconsistency, but I have never gotten that from you. And you seem to really be able to explain things well in a simple Ti way, especially Ti base, which I usually find impressive and makes me feel like a dumbass for my long ass tangents I could have summed up in a single sentence, prob kind of like I’m doing now. :p

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

What are the inconsistencies? Can you describe them?

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I got this from Se-polr thread.

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Socionics function: :Se: black sensing - force - volitional sensorics
outward traits of object - shape, old vs. young, worth or cost, appearance, energy of object, strength, readiness, willpower, mobilization
Positive(short range):
Deduction of authority, insubordination, protection, defense, retaliation, counterattack, hardness, upholding of the interests, strong-willed pressure from below upwards, will power, possession;
Negative (long range):
Capture of authority, submission, attack, aggression, attack, the initiative, persistence, insistence, strong-willed pressure from top to down, the statement of the interests due to others, overthrow, weakness, lack of will, mastering.

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I can give dozens of examples of how I applied the features of positive(short range) on different times of my life.

Deduction of authority, protection, defense: I collabrated with other departments because my own manager is having an affair with one of my colleagues, so it was clear from how he behaves that he is not going to give me a good promotion. I did a good job on some projects, and some coworkers only mentioned my name to our general manger.

After that on different occasion, I connected with his own supervisor before him, because he was blocking me. After some point, he tried to get my good graces.

insubordination:I proposed to do some project, he liked it first, wanted me to do that, then he probably talked with his lover because he changed his mind. When I asked him again and again, he said: I cannot say do or not do it, I have to know more, but for him to know more, I had to show him more which would cause him to give my info to her. So I didn't however, at the meeting with his own supervisors, I brought it up, although he spesifically told me that I shouldn't do that because "it would make me look bad" lol

In other kind of workplaces, as a kid in my family, at school, I never abide to any rule that doesn't make sense to me.

counterattack:I only get attempted to bullied once. I didn't do anything and thought that I didn't care. But after a while, other people joined and I figured I cared. After that point, I start to bully her, I befriended popular girls in my school just to get more say in things. After some point, she runned away when she saw me.

I excel better when I am under attack but it doesn't feel that good when it isn't resolved yet.

will power: At school, workplaces, I have done things that other people doesn't expect and doesn't believe that I or anyone else can do it. Hence some friends, family members and coworkers say to me that I have a strong will power. Other than that, when I do simple things for example, eating healthy, dieting, exercising for a long time, they also say it because of it. After getting into socionics, when this happened, I took it as an insult, to me that sounded like battle typing :D I asked why, they said I do what I say.

Before I get into socionics, I started to work on myself so I can be more vulnerable. I didn't accepted any vulnerability and this clouded my judgement, I didn't know if some things are happening because I am too harsh or not. I worked on it long time, so being vulnerable, accepting weakness was something challenging for me. Hence, I have trouble with relating Se-polr or LII descriptions.

This for example:

Quote:

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Around peers LIIs girls are somewhat shy and hesitant. They may try to avoid noisy gatherings and large companies and keep themselves in seclusion or quietly remain in the background. They possess a certain degree of pedantry in their self-expression. To a large extent, they are influenced by the expectations of their parents, whom they do not want to disappoint. They desire to avoid conflict situations at home (and, incidentally, and at all other places).

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Noone would describe me this way. Some people may think I am shy at work at first, because I generally don't talk, I am not engaging, talkative. However, when we work I speak my mind and they get to know me. On other, social environments people always thinkI am confident. I don't avoid large gatherings, I am not shy.

I also care about power dynamics in relationships and other areas. It is easier to give examples about work :D

I can give other examples later. If a Se-dom think this is not Se, can they give example, so I can see what I am doing or not.

These things could be related to nature and nurture. I don't know how to distinguish them though.

Just to note that I only mentioned inconsistencies here. I think LII also suits me, that's why I am still keeping it but I am not quite sure about it anymore, I also don't relate to Ne-polr descriptions. But then what is Se, what is Ne :p

@myresearch I have some pros to WHY I think you are actually Se Polr and why it is a lot more prevalent then you think. Just I need to double check with Ni again and really sift through my thoughts. I will write it down after my late shift at work tonight.

Quick question, what quadra did you grow up with the most/influenced the most by as a child/young adult?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MissDucki

@myresearch I have some pros to WHY I think you are actually Se Polr and why it is a lot more prevalent then you think. Just I need to double check with Ni again and really sift through my thoughts. I will write it down after my late shift at work tonight.

Quick question, what quadra did you grow up with the most/influenced the most by as a child/young adult?

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My mother is either LIE or LSE, she is definetely Te-dom, but she has the characteristics of both types.

My father was EIE or SEE or SLE, he was very extreme and had extreme characteristics like noone ever has, so it is very difficult to type him, I could be wrong about these types as well.

Se PoLR test, it's a dark night with little visibility and it's pouring down rain making the lines on the road impossible to see. You are on a busy multi-lane highway with many cars swerving in and out of their lanes.

How comfortable are you in this situation? How would you react?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nataraja

Se PoLR test, it's a dark night with little visibility and it's pouring down rain making the lines on the road impossible to see. You are on a busy multi-lane highway with many cars swerving in and out of their lanes.

How comfortable are you in this situation? How would you react?

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I don't have a car, so I don't drive. I never reacted in a bad or scared way when I was in a car though. I was in a car accident and I also hit by a car then went to home rather than hospital because of other details.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

I don't have a car, so I don't drive. I never reacted in a bad or scared way when I was in a car though. I was in a car accident and I also hit by a car then went to home rather than hospital because of other details.

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You've never driven a car but you've been in a car. Have you ever felt uneasy that you didn't have control of the car that you were riding in? Did you have fear of being near traffic or riding in a car after these accidents?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nataraja

You've never driven a car but you've been in a car. Have you ever felt uneasy that you didn't have control of the car that you were riding in? Did you have fear of being near traffic or riding in a car after these accidents?

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No, I didn't have any problems with not being in control of the car, I use cabs all the time. I heard here that Se-egos have problems with it, but I also took a cab with Se-doms, I don't know what they feel inside, but if a person does that all the time, then I think it doesn't become an issue. Hence, I don't think this says anything imo.

I didn't even have any fear when car was hitting me, it happened when I was 12-13, I skipped school, then I was grounded at home, I wasn't suppose to go out, but I skipped home as well, they didnt know that though. I just went to some places and when I decided to return home, traffic lights were far away, I was going to be late if I walked, so I decided to go across the road. I passed one car, then realized I am not going to pass the second one. Then I decided to jump on it, so I don't get under it. It hit me, my body smash their window, it didn't break but shattered. They try to convience me to go hospital with them. But I didn't want to get extra punishment, so I took a cab there to go home. Tax driver was very anxious, he said one guy was also a hit by a car at the exact spot like many others and died in his cab due to internal bleeding. I thought nothing would happen to me probably because I was too young. Then I went home. End of the story. I didn't have any fear afterwards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

No, I didn't have any problems with not being in control of the car, I use cabs all the time. I heard here that Se-egos have problems with it, but I also took a cab with Se-doms, I don't know what they feel inside, but if a person does that all the time, then I think it doesn't become an issue. Hence, I don't think this says anything imo.

I didn't even have any fear when car was hitting me, it happened when I was 12-13, I skipped school, then I was grounded at home, I wasn't suppose to go out, but I skipped home as well, they didnt know that though. I just went to some places and when I decided to return home, traffic lights were far away, I was going to be late if I walked, so I decided to go across the road. I passed one car, then realized I am not going to pass the second one. Then I decided to jump on it, so I don't get under it. It hit me, my body smash their window, it didn't break but shattered. They try to convience me to go hospital with them. But I didn't want to get extra punishment, so I took a cab there to go home. Tax driver was very anxious, he said one guy was also a hit by a car at the exact spot like many others and died in his cab due to internal bleeding. I thought nothing would happen to me probably because I was too young. Then I went home. End of the story. I didn't have any fear afterwards.

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Wow that's a crazy story lol. But yeah I agree that this line of questioning isn't really going anywhere. I think a lot of the lack of fear you were feeling was just disassociation from the shock of the event.

I thought these things were there because of Se-polr or low Se or non Se valuer:

I am not super active, I can stay in one place for a long time. but could be Te ignoring.

I have difficult time changing the state I am in. If I am on relaxation period I tend to stay there. If I am working, studying or on fire in other ways, I tend to stay there.

When I want to change something about myself, it could be behavior or I may want to do something to achieve a goal or something I want, I can tell if I am going to make it or not. For example, if I want to go coffee-free, I can tell if I am going to be able to cut it or not. If not I mentally prepare myself. Then when I get ready, it looks sudden on outside, however, I do some tricks to get myself there.

I don't anticipate an attack and therefore I don't attack without any reason to anyone.

I don't show off my status if I know I am better than everyone on that environment.

I am not impressed by someone in position or a person who has some status just because of this. I also don't respect people just because of this.

I can add more later, if I remember other things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

I notice that when you talk about power structures, you never seem to talk about them in an objective way. There is the power structure, the people involved, your position within it. Your achievements are not completely independent from those, but puts you at a certain place in the power structure. You don't seem to talk about this in a way that recognizes these structures and manipulates them to your advantage. In order to do that, you have to detach from your personal views, opinion, deduction, whatever it is, and interact with the power structure as a power structure. Use it against them, for you.

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It goes like this ceo>gm>director>manager>.... My manager favours one coworker due to his relationship, so it is clear that she has the upper hand due to other things. There are lots of other directors that reports gm. I was not supported by my own department. I didn't try to get their good graces if this is what you are saying. I chose to work with other departments instead since they are also connected to gm. I earned a promotion and also an opportunity that I want to use more than having this job. There are lots of other details but what I did worked better than I can imagine but how could I manipulate it otherwise in your opinion?

If this is not what you are saying, can you give an example? because right now I think I did what you described in the best way possible, but my main purpose wasn't to use it against them, it was about this thing working for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

When they say it will make you look bad, its not because your opinion, or you as a person would be 'bad'. Its an image thing, it makes it seem that you don't respect the different position of different people. Ultimately, we are all human, but in a corporate structure, there are unwritten rules in how to interact, depending on culture and so on. It's not personal, its not about whether it makes sense to you or not. It's there as a structure of organisation, and a way to manage complexity of the business as a whole.
Many people fail at their position, so I'm not critisizing you for saying some of it doesn't make sense. But it has a purpose regardless.

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Ofcourse I don't respect people who tries to block me. I am not going to act according to those people's words or unwritten rules, especially if it benefits them and puts me in a bad position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

I can see that as confusing. I don't think this excludes Se PoLR though. Se dom would never get bullied in the first place, or at least they'd make it stop, because they instantly recognize what it means for them in terms of the position they have to others. You needed more people to join in before seeing that, and then acted on it. Se ego would see through it without more people joining, if they even get in that position to begin with. IMO.

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Bolded part is not true, I have seen it. They may or they may not stop it, it depends. These kind of statements started confusion for me. Because if that was true, then Se-polr doesn't suppose to do it either, it goes both ways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

Yes, getting in their good graces helps.

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We get a department score, then sum of everyone's score divided by number of people has to be equal to that score.

Now, I told you that he is having an affair with one of my coworker. He won't score me higher than her, when it is up to him. It is that simple.

So this isn't going to work at all. Also I don't kiss ass and why would I? With my method my ass is got kissed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

Recognize who has power and who has not.

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I recognized it. That's why I worked with other departments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

It doesn't have to be apparent in the organisational structure either. Sometimes people in non-important positions can move the whole organisation by their actions. Knowing what strings to pull to get something done. Manipulating the relations between people to get somewhere, get their idea in, move the organisation somewhere. I don't see anything like that in what you're saying.

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I cannot see how you cannot see. I told you I worked with other departments and they mentioned my name to GM. That's how I earned good graces of GM..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

Sometimes its better to be in a bad position if it gains you favor. You might not like it, but it is how it is. Knowing which people to play out against each other by establishing relations with them and knowing what they like and do not like, thats part of it.

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We were having meeting with gm, director, manager, he is already saying things that bad about me, since other departments gives me good feedback and mentions me to GM and he wanted to shine his lover. So it wasn't those times.

If I did what you are telling me right now, I would be a ass kisser who got no promotion, works more than other person but not appreciated as much, I would be a sucker.

If you don't mind, rate the following from 0 to 10 (they are very general and abstract but that's the idea)


Systematic (you make systems for everything)
Casual (you go with the flow on most things in life)
Planful (you like to plan)
Open-ended (you are open minded about changing your routine and life)
Early-starting (you like to do today what can be done today, you like to anticipate work)
Pressure-prompted (you need outside pressure to move forward with projects that are not your passion)
Scheduled (you have an agenda)
Spontaneous (you act before thinking instead of thinking before acting)
Methodical (you tend to follow methods and procedures created by yourself or others)
Emergent (you derive things in a natural and organic process)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

We just think very different about these things. I don't think you're ending up in a good position in the way you do things when all is said and done. That is all.

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I see. But I already did those things, I ended up in the best position. This is happened, I don't assume it, I know it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

I think it is exactly that, pop culture reference. However, I don't know how this is different than any other kind of reference. If someone can do this, they can do other kind of references for other things if they get into it.

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When you said you don't know how it is different from any other reference, my brain suddenly got tired out.

But I think I follow - there are other kinds of references, such as sharing art or music that describe you or another person. Or, when someone says "Your presence reminds me of another person I have known". As with the knowledge of pop culture or movie genres you first have to understand the essence of the two objects in order to compare them.
It can be prior study, memory of a subject that allows the references to be made and intuition does not need to be involved - what reverie said about goodreads.

It's interesting to think of how Se-polr shows itself in people who have high Will in psychosophy. A typing thread can be considered a consensus seeking, but as you said above, having strong valued Ti means you figure out your own type eventually, after gathering more data.

In your job do you ever hesitate/hold back on delegating a task to someone else because it feels like that would be ordering them to do something you could easily take upon yourself? Do you relate at all to preferring to complete a task to your own satisfaction rather than impose that on someone else?

It's kind of a two-fold question - do you feel uncomfortable pressing someone, knowing that by doing so you're quickening their course of work and altering their own inner state?

Hopefully those questions don't seem loaded or like an inquisition :hide: You don't have to answer if it's uncomfortable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike

Your knowledge is not absolute. Neither is mine, I don't know you, your situation or anything. You're in the best position according to your assesment of the situation, which might be flawed.

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GM offered me to open my company and he said he would support me, I think it doesn't get better than that. I haven't heard such a thing, wasn't expected. I may not be able to do it though, there are lots of complications, unknowns etc. I am trying to dig something right now.

I understand that you don't know the situation.

I have a feeling this is going to be a long discussion that leads to the final decision being LII.



https://64.media.tumblr.com/27985c69...1fa914af6.gifv

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Originally Posted by thistle

When you said you don't know how it is different from any other reference, my brain suddenly got tired out.

But I think I follow - there are other kinds of references, such as sharing art or music that describe you or another person. Or, when someone says "Your presence reminds me of another person I have known". As with the knowledge of pop culture or movie genres you first have to understand the essence of the two objects in order to compare them.
It can be prior study, memory of a subject that allows the references to be made and intuition does not need to be involved - what reverie said about goodreads.

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On how you describe other forum members page, LSI(pandemic candy) said one's presence reminds him a character, I forgot its name. So I don't know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thistle

It's interesting to think of how Se-polr shows itself in people who have high Will in psychosophy. A typing thread can be considered a consensus seeking, but as you said above, having strong valued Ti means you figure out your own type eventually, after gathering more data.

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Hopefully. About strong will, one IEE posted a post about it 2 years ago, linked his blog, but now it is gone. He said strong will is about self control and static types generally more prone to have it, since they rely on their own, if I remember it correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thistle

In your job do you ever hesitate/hold back on delegating a task to someone else because it feels like that would be ordering them to do something you could easily take upon yourself? Do you relate at all to preferring to complete a task to your own satisfaction rather than impose that on someone else?

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I am not prone to delegate a task if I want it to be done in a certain way sometimes. I prefer to do it myself to be sure.

My current workplace is very lazy. I had to make people work for something required, I mailed them, called them. Some returned, some didn't. I called one person everyday a few times although he never picked up. He wrote walls of text, but didn't do the job. After some days, he picked up, he thanked me and did the job. Now someone else doing this for months %25 of the job is done. I did it in 10 days.

There are times that I hold back a bit. It generally depends on the communication I have with that person. Example: There is one guy at this workplace. He is a good guy, a bit lazy. He likes to talk about other things, when I directly get into business, he says he cannot do it at first. So I talk about TV shows a bit, a bit crypto, then I ask it again, he says he is busy, but it would take only 15 min max. I get a bit angry inside, but I hold it back, because he is a good guy and he actually helped me a lot on some cases, like a knight. So I try to do some sweet talk then make him do it instead. But sometimes I am having 1 hour calls with him, so he can do a 15 min work. One day I lashed on him very bad though. We are good, he didn't take it that bad. I was going to use this as an example about what I don't like about Ne/Si. He is only capable to do what he finds interesting, too lazy to do what is required even it doesnt take much effort.

This is not what you asked but a bit related imo and this is me doing things in a Ne/Si-ish way imo:

My previous workplace was highly competetive, ranks mattered a lot, project managers were generally pushy and demanding in an unnecessary way. So when I was managing it, I used gamification methods. I wanted everyone to have fun doing it. I also used competition tactics but more in a game-y way. I wouldn't describe my managing methods in that period as harsh, pushy or demanding in any way. They were more easy to do what is required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thistle

It's kind of a two-fold question - do you feel uncomfortable pressing someone, knowing that by doing so you're quickening their course of work and altering their own inner state?

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If we have equal position and in the same department, if I am friends with them, then yes I feel uncomfortable. However, I do it if it is necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thistle

Hopefully those questions don't seem loaded or like an inquisition :hide: You don't have to answer if it's uncomfortable.

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It doesn't feel like that at all. Good questions.

I also saw the one you deleted :p

I can order beverage even I am having a meeting with CEO, I know people generally don't do it, I can see it in their face, but I am shameless about these kind of things :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

There are times that I hold back a bit. It generally depends on the communication I have with that person. Example: There is one guy at this workplace. He is a good guy, a bit lazy. He likes to talk about other things, when I directly get into business, he says he cannot do it at first. So I talk about TV shows a bit, a bit crypto, then I ask it again, he says he is busy, but it would take only 15 min max. I get a bit angry inside, but I hold it back, because he is a good guy and he actually helped me a lot on some cases, like a knight. So I try to do some sweet talk then make him do it instead. But sometimes I am having 1 hour calls with him, so he can do a 15 min work. One day I lashed on him very bad though. We are good, he didn't take it that bad. I was going to use this as an example about what I don't like about Ne/Si. He is only capable to do what he finds interesting, too lazy to do what is required even it doesnt take much effort.

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This is exactly how my LII colleague deals with a certain project purchaser in the company who apparently is very hard to work with and who will on a whim decide whether to help people with their important project purchases or not, and will get sour and refuse to help if you try to go behind her back and get someone (who can't do it without her help anyway) else to help her. He'll sit on a call for an hour or two discussing pleasant things with her and meanwhile she may or may not do the job the LII has requested, but the chances are much higher than otherwise.

My solution to this would be to tell this person do their fucking job, if they don't, I'll find someone else or do it myself. I won't let things like "only this person knows how to do it or has proper access" stop me, there's always a way if you've got the will. For some reason, the few times I've personally asked her to do something for me, she's done it immediately without issues.

Anyway, I think the Se polr manifests as a reluctance to break social rules, offend people by being directly rude, and especially not wanting to stomp over the will of other people. For example, this person not wanting to do something - Se polr will not simply directly tell them to do it, they will try to persuade and 'soften' the approach. They don't lack willpower as in self-control, they just respect the freedom of others too much to be able to force their will on them. Another way this manifests is 'accepting their fate' when someone has provided them incorrect service (wrong meal, wrong or defective items, bad quality work, etc.), this is where their duals come in as ESE is the most likely type to go complain to a service provider about poor service or return defective items to the store.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Northstar

My solution to this would be to tell this person do their fucking job, if they don't, I'll find someone else or do it myself. I won't let things like "only this person knows how to do it or has proper access" stop me, there's always a way if you've got the will. For some reason, the few times I've personally asked her to do something for me, she's done it immediately without issues.

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When one coworker was trying to sabotage my project. He called me and told me what she was doing. She asked him for materials to find a gap in my project, so it would stop. I told him to give whatever she asks because I knew there was no gap. However, him doing this kind of thing melted my heart :D I have a soft spot for him because these kind of things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Northstar

Anyway, I think the Se polr manifests as a reluctance to break social rules, offend people by being directly rude, and especially not wanting to stomp over the will of other people. For example, this person not wanting to do something - Se polr will not simply directly tell them to do it, they will try to persuade and 'soften' the approach. They don't lack willpower as in self-control, they just respect the freedom of others too much to be able to force their will on them.

---

There are times I stumpted on it. But I don't feel good about it always definitely. I know this guy wouldn't do that to me and he had my back so I cannot do that to him. Except one time, I slipped :( and released anger :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Northstar

Another way this manifests is 'accepting their fate' when someone has provided them incorrect service (wrong meal, wrong or defective items, bad quality work, etc.), this is where their duals come in as ESE is the most likely type to go complain to a service provider about poor service or return defective items to the store.

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I don't return things that are cheap like things from supermarket. I return other things if they cost more, etc. However, if I got a wrong meal, then I correct them.

We were having a lunch with coworkers: ESI, EII, me and some others. Everyone got what is asked but not EII. I asked it when it is going to come for her. Then they brought wrong meal to her. She seemed dissatisfied, said that she cannot eat the things on half of the plate, she was having a diet. Then I said let's ask them to change, she said nothing. Then I was looking for a waiter and EII said it is not that important and it is not necessary to change it, however, her face was dissatisfied as hell. So I asked the waiter to change it. Then, EII and ESI said it was unnecessary, me going against EII for EII bothered them both. I thought I broke some Fi code.

Found Ne description:

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potentiality of object - inherent possibilities, purpose, abilities, talents, structure, construction, diagram or internal map of object
Positive(short range):
Prospects, opportunities, positive potential, essence, essence, the principles, new ideas, promotion of hypotheses, the theory, an insight, interest, originality, singularity, unreality, belief;
Negative (long range):
Hopelessness, alternative, negative potential, absence of essence, senselessness, the paradox, overlooked old, serost, the mediocrity, the suppressed opportunities, disbelief, sensation.

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I can give dozens of examples how I apply the aspects of positive short range.

the theory, belief, insight: I develop my own theories, insights about things, they all generally point to the singularity. For example, I have my own belief system that I created,it is based on we are all one. Another one: at workplaces and relationships, if people are isolated, it means that place or relation is toxic and corrupted. In isolated systems, people start to control each other in a toxic way and they don't themselves don't want to get out of it after a while if it is bad to them because they know they are on their own toixc world at some level. Which is perfectly explained by entropy. Since everything is the same, all laws of physics and chemistry applies to other things as well.

Prospects, opportunities: At workplaces, I generally develop a software or some kind of a system. I started to do this when I first start to work, I noticed I wasn't improving much, there is no opportunity to excel fast either. So I thought about making a product so I can develop my skills I also wanted to test how much I can excel in that company and if doesn't work out, I thought finding jobs would be much more easy. So this worked and I kept doing this because it offers a win win scenario for me, opens different kind of probable opportunities.

positive potential: I recognize it in people and objects, how they can reach their potential. For example, at work if we are using a tool, I can find a way to improve it, so it can do things that it wasn't able to do it. Another one: I encouraged one of my friends to apply to other jobs because she was very unhappy and unappreciated in her job, also her career path seemed limited and didn't seem to suit her. So I also made some suggestions about that. It could be about simple things sometimes, such as improving lifestyle, general happieness (for example getting some hobbies), looks etc

I also consciously changed myself over the years since I was a kid, because I want to be the best version of myself, reach my highest potential. For example, I spend my time alone for few years and then I spent most of my time going to different kind of places with different kinds of people etc because I thought this was the best route to that, then changed my opinion and did the reverse :p

promotion of hypotheses: I test it out when I have a hypotheses, this could be a social thing, a work thing. I do tests to see if they are true or not to get reassurance, after getting some, I introduce such things to others.


Apart from that, I related ILE potrait of Beskova more than 4DTi types, but I know noone thinks that is possible :D

I also think I fit to Ti-dom IJ temp more, however, in my social life, at parties, at outside, I can be EP-like. However, when I broke ILE typing to its IEs, I don't see how I can be Ni ignoring, Te-demo, Fi-polr :shrug:

Honestly @ThatGuyStoleMyBike beat me to the punch lol i agree with his reasoning. But I’ll just add an extra opinion.

However, @myresearch, you come across playing with Ni games more then Se games. Like a puppet master playing with the strings. Poking, prodding, seeing what may get a reaction from a detached view. The understanding of Se is there but I don’t think the robust will of „Se Powerplays“ is there. You are assertive but, I don’t feel a hot fire of Se will power coming from you. More like a delicate black widow. In the Sense, your power doesn’t come from force but from manipulation of the board. I think when put on the board with Se players, I think you would feel overwhelmed when forced to use it and feel very rigid. Not having to relax or having to be extremely uncomfortable with pushing force into others. You have to be hands on in the most uncomfortable way.

Plus, you grew up in a decent Se environment. I have this theory that your demo becomes real strong when growing up in opposite/different quadras to keep the pressure of your Polr.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

There are times that I hold back a bit. It generally depends on the communication I have with that person. Example: There is one guy at this workplace. He is a good guy, a bit lazy. He likes to talk about other things, when I directly get into business, he says he cannot do it at first. So I talk about TV shows a bit, a bit crypto, then I ask it again, he says he is busy, but it would take only 15 min max. I get a bit angry inside, but I hold it back, because he is a good guy and he actually helped me a lot on some cases, like a knight. So I try to do some sweet talk then make him do it instead. But sometimes I am having 1 hour calls with him, so he can do a 15 min work. One day I lashed on him very bad though. We are good, he didn't take it that bad. I was going to use this as an example about what I don't like about Ne/Si. He is only capable to do what he finds interesting, too lazy to do what is required even it doesnt take much effort.

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At this point there is nothing constructive I can add that would suggest you are another type with strong Ti. It wonder if your responsibilities in the workplace, too, have helped to balance out your functions.

Have you thought about the intertype relationship between you and the colleague mentioned above - whether your ITR could contribute to the patience you have to spend extra time on the phone with him? even taking into account the influence of Se-polr on you putting your foot down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

I also saw the one you deleted :p

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That's because you are sharp/lucid and don't seem to miss anything. I think that might be non-type related though.

Se polr of LII might be a bit misunderstood, they CAN be forceful at times, it's just the typical thing with polr that it is volatile, not able to judge the application precisely or select the best situations to act. Typically LII will make use of their demo Ni to avoid problems related to Se, anticipating difficulties in advance and creating contingencies

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Northstar

Se polr of LII might be a bit misunderstood, they CAN be forceful at times, it's just the typical thing with polr that it is volatile, not able to judge the application precisely or select the best situations to act. Typically LII will make use of their demo Ni to avoid problems related to Se, anticipating difficulties in advance and creating contingencies

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Nice, this is a concise and neat example to understand the demonstrative function in relation to the polr.

If you are not LII, you probably are SEI. Seem alpha introvert.

I've always thought polr was like an extreme strength of something as well.... like I have Te polr but at work they said I came off as scary authoriative like and ultra business-like lol.. probably because polr is conscious- but its like I hated focusing on it and wish society didn't value it so much as it's pretty annoying to me. It's probably why I got promoted so quickly but blah it's stupid that people get gaslighted so easily over that shit to me and I wish all the power was given to the most innocent and lovable Alpha with down syndrome or something because I don't really value or care about that shit. "Hello, I'm acting like an overly serious douche in a business suit. Give me all the power now." :8*

I think Se polr can translate to somebody being haughty and arrogant a lot of the times- for kind of a similiar reason. My LII dad was always really bull-headed about being right (and to be fair he almost always was :lol:) And he could be really pushy/stern in that rightness. And same thing with SLE and Fi polr- they can get REALLY morally self-righteous about certain things, in a way that comes off strong/overbearing.

A true strength/ego function- I think somebody is just naturally more 'chill' about it either way.

Then again, yeah- I have met LIIs (usually male) who are just weak nerds who can't fight or play sports even worse than I do and just wanna be protected.

@BandD

I gotta start using Te like you BandD! I get way too rigid with Te and I don’t like it when I am stressed. I think that would be easier. I usually start using Se for them to get off my back. I was a cold cold employee to my old LSE/SLE manager :whistle: I ain’t letting no power hungry man pull shit over me in his stupid tittle or uniform :reallymad::na:
Anyways I have to learn to figure out how to appear more Te like in those instances so I can be seen as a little more competent :shrug:

My thoughts while reading: Probably not LII, probably something else. Something that doesn't have Fi role either, so not LSI. Could be LIE or something. Something democratic, low Si and low Fi, so ILI and ILE are possible too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megatrop

If you don't mind, rate the following from 0 to 10 (they are very general and abstract but that's the idea)


Systematic (you make systems for everything) 10
Casual (you go with the flow on most things in life)
Planful (you like to plan)
Open-ended (you are open minded about changing your routine and life)
Early-starting (you like to do today what can be done today, you like to anticipate work)
Pressure-prompted (you need outside pressure to move forward with projects that are not your passion)
Scheduled (you have an agenda)
Spontaneous (you act before thinking instead of thinking before acting)
Methodical (you tend to follow methods and procedures created by yourself or others)
Emergent (you derive things in a natural and organic process)

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I can't rate them this way Mega :( Every single of them can be interpreted in different way. They seem too broad to sort.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by squark

My thoughts while reading: Probably not LII, probably something else. Something that doesn't have Fi role either, so not LSI. Could be LIE or something. Something democratic, low Si and low Fi, so ILI and ILE are possible too.

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About LIE:

My mother is LIE>LSE. She does lots of things in a day. It could be all work related, she can be on the computer or other things. She get things done everyday. Very action oriented. She is also very factual in a way that she ignores the feelings of others.

Example:

My aunt's husband got into a tough surgery a few days ago. I called her to learn how they are doing and in that period when we were having a call, they delivered the news, she told me. She got happy and I got happy, then she said insurance is important. I think it is bizzare kind of a thing to think in that situation. But I know she is coming from a good place.

Then there are other arrangements had to be done. She helps, some people are sad and cannot do anything atm, she cannot understand it, she says they have to take x, y, z action, why don't they. She made a plan to arrange their home for his new conditions, she stayed in the hospital. She also decided to sue other hospital that lead this kind of a thing happened. She called some lawyers to decide etc, etc. She took too many actions in a few days.

I cannot multitask in this kind of a way.

Other than this: My grandmother has cancer and when my aunts were crying on some occasions. She said she can die while they are crying. She is telling the truth but not in the moment that is necessary. I can see how she fails at some kind of F everytime.

Can you explain why you think I don't have a Fi role?

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Originally Posted by myresearch

Can you explain why you think I don't have a Fi role?

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The stories you told about completely ignoring what other people requested, both work and personal is what made me think that. It's like their requests made no difference to you at all. The girl asking you not to talk to the waiter but you ignored her request was particularly an overstep. The work situation is more understandable. But, I find it hard to imagine an LII or LSI acting in that manner at a restaurant. I could see gammas acting like that (ILI less so) and could also picture an ESE "taking charge to take care" so to speak, but it doesn't fit so well with LII/LSI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thistle

At this point there is nothing constructive I can add that would suggest you are another type with strong Ti. It wonder if your responsibilities in the workplace, too, have helped to balance out your functions.

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It might. But I think it was mainly my nurture, I had an unusual one and I witnessed too much things that most people don't due to my parents, for example I interacted with lots and lots of different kinds of people as a kid. Some life changing things happened in my life that affects my psyche. So I probably have enhanced and/or repressed functions. I just can't distinguish which is my main valued function. I like and dislike some aspects of both Se/Ni and Si/Ne. I will write them down later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thistle

Have you thought about the intertype relationship between you and the colleague mentioned above - whether your ITR could contribute to the patience you have to spend extra time on the phone with him? even taking into account the influence of Se-polr on you putting your foot down.

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I think he is Si/Ne-dom, but I am not sure which one, probably not SEI though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thistle

That's because you are sharp/lucid and don't seem to miss anything. I think that might be non-type related though.

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I thought you were being thoughtful to extract it, but I am ok with anything you ask and it was a good question. Lots of people get anxious when someone come in asks if they want anything at meetings sometimes even if they have a high rank. However, most people who have the highest rank doesn't have any problems with it. I understand where they are coming from but it is just a beverage and we are all human imo :D

I could see LIE for you too lol- which would put you in the opposite quadra you thought you were in which may seem weird but logically that typing kinda makes sense to me. Although yeah your mother could just be rubbing off on you as well- the types of our parents does influence our own type I think.

I could see you supervising IEI but then again- almost everybody loves to supervise and act superior over IEIs lol cuz we are often soft & cuddly and kind of 'instrisically vulnerable' like they said so hard to tell if it's true supervision at times or just sorta... the natural state of things. 5-year-old girls probably supervise me. =D xxfx types are naturally more supervisable than xxtx types anyway especially in 'murica probably. I admit growing up I was victimized/scapegoated a lot and I had to be REALLY aggressive and bitchy more than I felt comfortable with just to make people leave me alone. I wish I was much more brutal with others but that is where my dual comes in.

The main thing that stops you from being a LII in the purest sense to me is you just don't seem as weak or pussy-ish as most LIIs I know. I wish there was a better or 'nicer' way to say that- but it's like the most obvious thing to me. Maybe it's you being enneatype 5 as well... and you are trying to integrate to 8 and so that conflicts a lot with being Se polr. Women like the thewholeenglish girl (ugh I forgot her screen name exactly...but she did a video with JoA I think) come off a lot more stereotypical LII than you.

You know you best- I'm not sure you relate to Gamma values despite appearing LIE-like at times.

I can be Te-creative because they have Ti-demo and Ip temp may make me think I don't use Te that much but it is more probabilistic for me to be a Se-dom than Te-dom :D I can't be EJ if I am then what is socionics.

I don't care who went to which school, what kind of a job line they have etc. My Te sucks much more than my Se. I was all about having fun before I start to work.


I gave too many work examples, that changes perception, but giving friendships and romance examples are tricky. If I do that, this thread can be my own confession thread lol

You just do not exchange dry factual information as default. No visible Te for you.

I haven't read through most of these responses yet although I did read some of your original posts, @myresearch. From interacting with you in the chat I felt like you had aggressor vibes, so could see LSI.

However I've noticed Ne can sometimes come off as more assertive over writing than they are in person.I know a couple of LIIs who are extremely expressive and even aggressive over their social media, then when you meet them in person they're quiet and non-confrontational. They assert with their words, but not their presence, if that makes sense. Do you relate to that at all? You might have already addressed this and I missed it...

If myresearch is LIE then I am SEE.

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Originally Posted by Aria

I haven't read through most of these responses yet although I did read some of your original posts, @myresearch. From interacting with you in the chat I felt like you had aggressor vibes, so could see LSI.

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https://media2.giphy.com/media/3oKIP...gZzy/giphy.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aria

I haven't read through most of these responses yet although I did read some of your original posts, @myresearch. From interacting with you in the chat I felt like you had aggressor vibes, so could see LSI.

However I've noticed Ne can sometimes come off as more assertive over writing than they are in person.I know a couple of LIIs who are extremely expressive and even aggressive over their social media, then when you meet them in person they're quiet and non-confrontational. They assert with their words, but not their presence, if that makes sense. Do you relate to that at all? You might have already addressed this and I missed it...

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All my friends and family members, acquaintances describe me as confident and assertive. I am more confrontational in my personal life than here or at work.

I can be quite and talkative, it depends.

In terms of presence, this is a recent comment I got:

When I was waiting for a friend I was looking to the window of a shop and my back was towards to where she is coming from and street was crowded. She came and said you have a so clear presence I noticed who you are from a far.

I have one close LSI friend. My IEI friend knows MBTI we talked about me being another type and we compared LSI friend and me. I am going to post it later.

Some of them:

She can't cope with low level of uncertainity and I can. She is more precise than me, I overthink things more. When I generalize things further, she sometimes says I look from above and it is actually due to simple things that can be Ti or Ne for example she and someone were talking about law and how it can be more meaningful as a career more than what we do, then I said law isn't justice, then she thought this is bird eyes view. I will give details later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

All my friends and family members, acquaintances describe me as confident and assertive. I am more confrontational in my personal life than here or at work.

I can be quite and talkative, it depends.

In terms of presence, this is a recent comment I got:

When I was waiting for a friend I was looking to the window of a shop and my back was towards to where she is coming from and street was crowded. She came and said you have a so clear presence I noticed who you from a far.

I have one close LSI friend. My IEI friend knows MBTI we talked about me being another type and we compared LSI friend and me. I am going to post it later.

Some of them:

She can't cope with low level of uncertainity and I can. She is more precise than me, I overthink things more. When I generalize things further, she sometimes says I look from above and it is actually due to simple things that can be Ti or Ne for example she and someone were talking about law and how it can be more meaningful as a career more than what we do, then I said law isn't justice, then she thought this is bird eyes view. I will give details later.

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That will be interesting to read :)

Hmm, issues of presence and uncertainty. Yes, I think Ne PoLRs have a hard time with uncertainty although both of those things could be related to other personality factors, so may or may not be sociotype related.

What do you think about DarkAngelFireWolf69 cognitive styles @myresearch ??

Myresearch's final typing : EII-Fi (Ti role with Te suggestive), also intuitive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aria

That will be interesting to read :)

Hmm, issues of presence and uncertainty. Yes, I think Ne PoLRs have a hard time with uncertainty although both of those things could be related to other personality factors, so may or may not be sociotype related.

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About uncertainity:


If I haven't done something, and if in a workplace, someone asks me if I can do such a thing, then I say yes and do it.

For example there was an article about calculating different risks, our director asked me if I can systematize this theory and make it a tool out of it, I said yes, but I had no idea how to do it. My senior ESI was there also, maybe he asked him first, then our director turned to ESI and said to him, you see..

Then ESI asked me how I plan to do it, but I had no idea and when he realize that, he got very frustrated from my confidence that I think I can do it without knowing how. I did it btw in 3 weeks, they sell it now.

My confidence about this based on this:

In college, we had one big project supported by a big company, we connected different electronic devices, used different kinds of algorithms and it didn't work. Then we went to our professors to get some help, however, they couldn't solve it. Due to the different devices we use, when I googled it, google gave no results. So I didn't know how to solve it. Then I disambled pieces one by one, detected the problem and solved it. This thing boosted my confidence, I thought I can do anything. Because our professors were good at what they are doing worldwilde, ofcourse they could solve it if they worked on it themselves, but seeing I could do something they cannot at first glance and in the place of no outside knowledge, did the trick for me, boosted my ego :D


Me vs LSI friend on uncertainity:

Example 1:

When I quited, I extracted some files, however, it is against procedures and we all know this, so I was afraid that they can trace it and ask me how or why and sue me. Then I talked with other people, they told me they all did it and nothing happened. Then I did it, I got anxious a bit, but I did it :D

LSI also wanted to do the same, she took photos of it so it cannot be traced back to her. She didn't directly downloaded some files just because she think they could catch her.

Example 2:

When we were at parties unrelated to work, I can go and speak to other people. Sometimes we see some group is having too much fun, loud laughters draw us in. In those circumstances, I just go and talk to them, she cannot do it. I think it is because she fears rejection which is something relatable. However, if that happens, I believe I can say something back to save my face lol She comes and joins when she sees it is ok.


Example 3:

Again related to example 2, in workplaces, I am more open about talking different kinds of things. I think she holds back sometimes, because she doesn't want to do or say something that can jeopardize the respect that other people have for her. I think I don't care as much and I believe I can turn the tables if it bothers me.

Example 4:

She also did something she never did and she did a great job. Her work is always awesome anyways. However, I also like to throw myself and get challenged in this regard, although I know it can go sour. I sometimes do stuff I have never done at work, without anyone asking me. She accepts it when it is given to her. So this is the difference.

I will mention similarities and differences in other aspects later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

About uncertainity:


our director asked me if I can ____________________________, I said yes, but I had no idea how to do it.

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not NE polr..... !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

Then ESI asked me how I plan to do it, but I had no idea and when he realize that, he got very frustrated from my confidence that I think I can do it without knowing how

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Cause NE polr.....

ESIs don't perform well under pressure like that though, LSI does better ime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

Then ESI asked me how I plan to do it, but I had no idea and when he realize that, he got very frustrated from my confidence that I think I can do it without knowing how. I did it btw in 3 weeks, they sell it now.

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By hammering my head to a metaphoric wall as usual is the answer.

But this is more in Fi territory of incompetence rather than in Ne.

LSI PoLR is closer to <<...drum roll...>> sending people deemed as loose cannons based on weird hunches to Siberia... OK, not all LSI's are Stalin but I hope you get the point.

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Originally Posted by rtht

not NE polr..... !



Cause NE polr.....

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To explain further......

NE polr is not going to trust something that is purely potential (NE).....polr is 'scared function' they need to see evidence of this thing in reality, or need evidence that it can work (what ESI was requesting from @myresearch....)

myresearch knew that this thing could work because she has strong NE, and could see the potential of the thing, even though it didn't exist yet, and she hadn't worked out the particulars yet.....

You can get the gist of this from the NE polr description on sociotype.com

Socionics Information Elements: Ne (sociotype.com)

Ne as Vulnerable Function

The individual is highly skeptical about ideas and opportunities that appear not to lead anywhere specific, and seeks assurance that new innovations will definitely bring material benefits. He prefers the kind of ideas and innovations that offer solutions to existing problems rather than the kind that have uncertain consequences and are likely to bring upheaval and unnecessary change. The individual may tend to forcefully restrict other people's activities in areas he thinks they have no natural talent in. At the same time, he or she is prone to make errors when judging whether or not a person is capable of doing something. The individual generally does not try hard to understand multiple viewpoints, but concentrates on developing only his own. He is not very good at intriguing others with his ideas, even when they have significant merit. The individual dislikes it when people evaluate others' potential to engage in activities or develop skills in which they haven't had experience yet; above all he is uncomfortable with such discussions by other people regarding himself. He is inclined to be either over-skeptical of his own potential or going to the other extreme and overestimate his possibilities in specific areas on occasion.

According to our discussion that I made with IEI friend, me vs LSI friend:

General:

She drives different kinds of air land sea vehicles, I am not interested in much.

She is generally on time and I am not.

She complies with the rules even she knows it is unjust. I don't care about rules if I think environment is unjust.

I am more philosphical, she is more practical.

She likes to do things collectively, I prefer to do my own thing in terms of work, tasks.

We are both ambitious but not competitive. In a way, when others were doing good, get success,etc we are geniunely happy for them. It is very easy for me to share when I am doing better at work and other stuff, she is always supportive and celebrative. I never thought she was a tiny bit jealous, hopefully she feels the same about me, because that's how I feel. My reasons of this: I want good things happen to the people I love and when people are doing better, I think yeay so we can all do it better, so it makes me more positive towards life.

She is more precise and easier to understand. She generally doesn't get into details or she doesn't add too much layers when she is describing something. I can get into details or add layers which can cause a person to not easily digest what I have said.

When we were analyzing some work related stuff, I said to her what I was thinking and she said I am thinking too much, how can I live like this if I think everything to this extend. I generally think that much about lots of things.


She thought our director was unjust because he gives tasks to people according to their abilities, which causes unjust opportunities for others. I thought our director was unjust because he gots intel from others so he actually has no idea what is really going on, he is easily manipulated and he is not even the one that manages things. We partially agreed to each other but her focus screams Ne polr :D

After some work party, we as a group went out and had some drinks. LSI thought SLI was judging people in the party, she said she is going to prove this when SLI went to bathroom. Then when SLI returned, she asked him some questions to reveal what was he actually thinking. I can do the exact same thing, but I cant see myself revealing it to others since it is a work environment, she could be wrong about it and these kind of things can be used against both of them. I do such a thing to discover what is going on for myself. I reveal these kind of things and what I have done with it after some time and more likely when I am one on one with someone I trust.

She says some other stuff that I do, but do not say in work setting. She says she likes to mind read for example. We actually tried to do this and did it to some good extent :D but we sometimes misunderstood each other :( Again, I don't want to say such a thing in a work setting, because it can be used against me.

Both she and I can hold back and argue when we think that time is right. I argue with our directors, managers much more often than she does. I thought LSIs are generally more prone to take commands, at least they are more ok with this. Our director and managers complied to me when I insisted. We were choosing who wouldn't we want to fight, argue, most people chose me and LSI was one of them :D In our social life, she is more prone to say something back if she thinks other person is doing something bad socially. I say such stuff when it is important or too much.

Social:

She is more inexpressive than me in terms of words and facial expressions.

IEI says she looks dull and I look distinguished in terms of presence not biology. She said this before we did this comparison thing. She also said the same thing for EII. So I thought this might be due to being CD IJ type, but this might be a rationalization. I think this is the reason why EIEs were more into me when we meet them for the first time together.

IEI says she adds on the things that had been said in social group. She said I get in it, say some stuff then I pull back myself to see how people are going to respond.

She adapts to environment all the way. I always adapt partially and expect my environment to adapt to me a bit.


She doesn't know who she get alongs and who she cannot. For example, when new coworkers (SLI and SLE) joined, she thought SLI was nice but SLE was evil. Then I said to her, that I worked with SLE and he isn't evil and she will see this. After some time, she came and told me that SLE is fun and actually nice, then I said to her that I am glad to hear this because I wondered why she can't see who she can get along or not since she did similar kind of things before. IEI says she cannot understand this because she isn't self aware in compasion to me, IEI says that I can do this because I am into psychology and typology for a long time.

Romance:

We both had a relationship for 5 years, we both got cheated (I caught him before he actually cheated). We both ended it and never return to them although they knock the door. However, she says she can be ok with a person who cheats if she doesnt caught them, she says she can do it herself. She kissed someone else when she was seeing someone. I think kiss is more innocent, I kissed someone else when I had feelings for another and when I knew he also had feelings towards me. But I cannot do such a thing when I am in relationship. I have more strict rules that I apply and expect other person to apply. IEI says she says/does such things because she is not self aware and she would not be ok with that.

We both play mind games, but hers is generally more apparent, mine is more complex.

We both seem indifferent to the guys we flirted at inital stages, then they say stuff that suggest we are actually thoughtful and care a lot when we get into relationships. Despite seeming indifferent we are both calculating but we don't like too much calculation, so the things that are calculated are important. Besides that both of our devotion increases in time.

She is most similar person to me in terms of how someone is in romance. However, she wants to get married and have kids now, I don't have such a desire. So she is into trying things before evaluating to see where things go. So she is more willing to jump into some relationships compared to her past self and me now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rtht

What do you think about DarkAngelFireWolf69 cognitive styles @myresearch ??

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I related with result cognition much more than process. Because I generally assess a thing from looking different sides. I can postpone some part if we got stucked, I'll move on other steps that comes later and return back to that later.

However, in highschool, I thought if we had accumulated everything happened and interpreted in a way then we could predict every thing, so I am deterministic.

I do different kinds of test to see what happens or predict a thing, that seems VS.

When I change myself, I generally swing back and forth in terms of opposites that seems DA.


So...... :shrug:

I did see a bunch of stuff which can be argued as N>S to me, which I can mention if you want, though I did already mention what looked to point away from NE polr in you before....

I also saw a sign of Democratic>Aristrocratic for you below, by her abiding to 'rank' and you not....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

Both she and I can hold back and argue when we think that time is right. I argue with our directors, managers much more often than she does. I thought LSIs are generally more prone to take commands, at least they are more ok with this. Our director and managers complied to me when I insisted. We were choosing who wouldn't we want to fight, argue, most people chose me and LSI was one of them In our social life, she is more prone to say something back if she thinks other person is doing something bad socially. I say such stuff when it is important or too much

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rtht

I did see a bunch of stuff which can be argued as N>S to me, which I can mention if you want, though I did already mention what looked to point away from NE polr in you before....

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@rtht I don't relate to Ne polr at all. I also see what you see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rtht

I also saw a sign of Democratic>Aristrocratic for you below, by her abiding to 'rank' and you not....

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Yeah, this is another difference between me and her. She also mentioned this herself. I don't try to get closer to people who have power, I know how I can if I want such a thing, but this is not a thing that I am allured to. She is more prone to do that.

I can recognize who has power, why does that person has it, I can get it myself, I am getting it in different areas. But I don't assess people mainly about in this aspect. I don't treat them differently. I said hold the door to CEO and subordinate, their rank doesn't matter to me when I want to catch the elevator :D I noticed both Si/Ne and Se/Ni people refrain from doing such things though. I don't know if this Se-polr power or not :p

There are things that bothers me with lack of power in others though such as cowardness, passive agressiveness, not able to take a side when it is needed, when things are important, etc. I will mention these in detail.

In some other thread, I said I dont care about people's status, but I see it, I dont want to get undermined in this way or any other way. It is also a bit cringe to me when people say omg you so rich to some rich person. I think it is also ok to want things, ofcourse if I had more money, I would live in bigger better house. I think these things are more related to how much a money person has. So when a rich person buys some shinny things I think that is natural. I wrote these kind of things on a thread months or a year ago and selftyped LIIs suggested I am seeing hierachies and I want things, hence I cannot be Se-polr, I can be LSI. Which sounded absurd to me, because this is how human nature works. How can a person not see this.

Irl, some Se egos don't want to argue with me. It can be because Se ego don't want to be attacked in a way that they don't expect if I am a Ne ego. I thought these stuff could be due to argumentative side of Ne. However, nobody mentions such things here.

Based on these, if I am LII, how things work in real life clashes with what forum members say here. Polr descriptions also don't reflect reality.

If I had known more variety of types, things would be more easier for me to assess. However, I don't know any alpha NTs irl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myresearch

Yeah, this is another difference between me and her. She also mentioned this herself. I don't try to get closer to people who have power, I know how I can if I want such a thing, but this is not a thing that I am allured to. She is more prone to do that.

I can recognize who has power, why does that person has it, I can get it myself, I am getting it in different areas. But I don't assess people mainly about in this aspect. I don't treat them differently. I said hold the door to CEO and subordinate, their rank doesn't matter to me when I want to catch the elevator :D I noticed both Si/Ne and Se/Ni people refrain from doing such things though. I don't know if this Se-polr power or not :p

There are things that bothers me with lack of power in others though such as cowardness, passive agressiveness, not able to take a side when it is needed, when things are important, etc. I will mention these in detail.

In some other thread, I said I dont care about people's status, but I see it, I dont want to get undermined in this way or any other way. It is also a bit cringe to me when people say omg you so rich to some rich person. I think it is also ok to want things, ofcourse if I had more money, I would live in bigger better house. I think these things are more related to how much a money person has. So when a rich person buys some shinny things I think that is natural. I wrote these kind of things on a thread months or a year ago and selftyped LIIs suggested I am seeing hierachies and I want things, hence I cannot be Se-polr, I can be LSI. Which sounded absurd to me, because this is how human nature works. How can a person not see this.

Irl, some Se egos don't want to argue with me. It can be because Se ego don't want to be attacked in a way that they don't expect if I am a Ne ego. I thought these stuff could be due to argumentative side of Ne. However, nobody mentions such things here.

Based on these, if I am LII, how things work in real life clashes with what forum members say here. Polr descriptions also don't reflect reality.

If I had known more variety of types, things would be more easier for me to assess. However, I don't know any alpha NTs irl.

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Yeah so everything you're saying points away from you valuing status/power......

Like you say, buying things has nothing to do with status....unless you are buying those things to show of your..........status! :lol: so ppl might have confused things there..... there are plenty of useful/good reasons to buy things.....

If some SE egos irl don't want to argue with you, it could be because they know they will lose.... if they lose, that could put a dent in their self-perceived status...... so that is a possible reason......

Definitely still not seeing anything to point towards SE ego, but if someone else does, then maybe they will mention it :)

Big G will see you now.

@myresearch when I read the list you made comparing yourself to your LSI friend I think it is very unlikely for Ne to be your polr. It makes more sense to me that it would take at least 2D Ne to identify as many examples of differences that have the potential to be independent of each other and useful for a type diagnosis.

Might be related: I took a test recently which asked whether I prefer giving essay style answers to questions, or to select from multi choice. I chose multi choice, because sometimes I just don't know the relevance of something until it is singled out to me as relevant.

Above you mention that your LSI friends adds on to things that have been said in a social group - that's how I am too, usually, and I identify most with ESI type.

Have you ruled out ST for yourself, in your mind?

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Originally Posted by thistle

@myresearch when I read the list you made comparing yourself to your LSI friend I think it is very unlikely for Ne to be your polr. It makes more sense to me that it would take at least 2D Ne to identify as many examples of differences that have the potential to be independent of each other and useful for a type diagnosis.

Might be related: I took a test recently which asked whether I prefer giving essay style answers to questions, or to select from multi choice. I chose multi choice, because sometimes I just don't know the relevance of something until it is singled out to me as relevant.

Above you mention that your LSI friends adds on to things that have been said in a social group - that's how I am too, usually, and I identify most with ESI type.

Have you ruled out ST for yourself, in your mind?

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@thistle I also don't see myself having 1D Ne. But I can't also see myself as 1D Se. I don't get feedbacks from others that suggest I might have 1D Ne/Se. That's why this typing thing is confusing for me. As I said before, my nurturing conditions were different in a way which can increase Ne, Se and Fe a bit. I am not sure which one get increased or whether they decreased or stayed neutral etc. Hence, right now I can't eliminate anything in my mind, I want to find a type that clicks or understand how my current type clicks with me.

I think I fit IJ temp the most, however, I can be wrong. I am going to give Fe and Fi examples also. Maybe that can clear up certain things, it can suggest another type besides a Ti-dom.

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Originally Posted by myresearch

I can't also see myself as 1D Se. my nurturing conditions were different in a way which can increase Se

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I know things like toughness and aggression are linked to SE, but I just see those things as potential tools for an SE ego....tools which they may or may not even need, or have.....

non SE ego can have/use those tools too, because of.... environment....genetics.....lifestyle.....maybe low SI.....self defense


How do you describe your SE?

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Originally Posted by rtht

I know things like toughness and aggression are linked to SE, but I just see those things as potential tools for an SE ego....tools which they may or may not even need, or have.....

non SE ego can have/use those tools too, because of.... environment....genetics.....lifestyle.....maybe low SI.....self defense


How do you describe your SE?

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I can get agressive when I am angry or sometimes when it is needed. At work, I am generally not aggresive, however I can be, again person's rank doesn't matter. For example, I opposed to my manager and get angry just a little bit, then after we calmed a bit, after a few mins, he told me that he knows I am a good person but there is this dominating part of me.. If you missed my other posts, there is no way that he can be objective or on my side in any way. So there is no reason for me to hold back that much. However, again, I only do such things, after some lines have been crossed. I am not going to fight with him or his lover for every single petty thing.

In my close relationships and when I am outside with strangers, I am more prone to show this side.

Generally I use it for defense and there are some other things that makes me angry, for example, a person touching, taking, using, changing the position of my stuff without asking for my permission. If I warned someone about something for a few times and if they keep doing that again and again I can get angry.

I generally hold back, I don't go all in, my anger increases until other person gives in or gives up or some mutual understanding established.

I spent a lot of times with different kinds of people, I am generally calm as a person. Some people generally never makes me angry, however, I get agressive towards some people regardless of me liking/disliking them.

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

I think @myresearch is an LII, but at the risk of annoying everyone I want to bring psychosophy into this. I think you are 1st Will in psychosophy and that's where a lot of the confusion about this Se PoLR stuff is coming from.

I think your type is "Socrates" WLEP. 1st Will, 2nd Logic, 3rd Emotion, 4th Physics.

I know people hate it but I think it can be used in conjunction with Socionics to explain differences in type.

I am in comparison "Ahmatova" WELP. I think I recognize a lot of similarities between us that come from having 1st will.

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Socrates ventured aloud with vehicles of imaginative feet for motioning the right sector of concepts to make people stream their consciousness.

I think that looking further into the gloom, and including more mansions of perception to rotate around your fashion of quest undertaking, and shooting off through the paradigm roof into that much larger idea based world is forever entering us into the codex of greatness.

Tonight on voice chat, on the new server, I have been on voice chat with myresearch.

It had been discussed that she is an SLE based on results.. I being higher in Ni, was initially suspicious, given a self-typing of LII—an Se PolR, versus the Se base of SLE being a major discrepancy.. Also of her self-typing 5 being withdrawn and out of logical alignment with being a far more extroverted type.

I went into my interrogative mode, and began an intensive questioning.. Asking her if her culture factors unto the results at all.. If she was focused on the test whilst having of its taking…

Then I went into why she sees herself as good with Ne..

Immediately, I noticed that the way she goes about the Ne, is a very 6 core reminiscent way of approaching.. I asked her if she could see herself as a 6 core, from this, but she wanted remain focused on my Socionics assessment…

It became clear that the way of her approaching things is a very strong Te way of going about things, but it is not valued.

When asked (by me) of why she would be more successful of her mother, she had said because she knows how it works, and the companies and people.. Which to me, shows stronger Te, and also Se with having to put oneself out there to see and experience those connections.

Poor self-awareness, saying, “I don’t know” was reflective throughout my questioning, indicative of weaker, unvalued Fi.

She had too, initially when I had asked why she is reserved, said she is so out of fear things can be used against of her… Then she had talked about accruing enough money to resist against future possible illness.. Then when I asked her how she would approach someone in need of helping on the street, in her deciding of whether or not to help them, how she would, she had said based on if she felt genuinely they were in need, or if or not, they were conning. This screamed 6 behaviors and then upon her saying she used to be extroverted prior to age 14 (after I had asked her if she felt any trauma can be making her appear more reserved and withdrawn than is she) I broke in and told her that I believe that she had become an E6 from her trauma, and mistakes being introverted and also of having Ne, as the result of her traumatic happening.

I believe Beta ST is quite feasible, and any Ne and withdrawn behavior is resulting from her own trauma, and with her being a clear 6 core.

How she doubts her own self-typing and wants others to give of their input, even over course of three years, can even be seen as an E6 manifestation.

I was skeptical of the test being a reliable metric.. But it was a 600 question one. And also, she when I asked if had she been focused in its taking, said she gave an 80%, and the results were well beyond marginal in their results.

Also, how she had said she had issue with the seeing how it would be 100 years from now, shows weakened Ni.. Even though she values it.. As I asked her if she prefers expand or limit.. She said she tries predict far more, which is Ni>Ne.

It is weakened, but valued.