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It's good of you to tell them, @Adam Strange, because we Gamma NTs can get hogged up in all that's unimportant in the greater picture; success, achievements, and accomplishment. We desire to prove ourselves to others, in order to prove our own worth to ourselves.
I like your song, I myself am in a similar mood regarding my SLESI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3vc7H_bSFU
When we go on these big debuts with the person being all inquisitive and debating, the actual arguments and explorations of fringe areas can be thought provoking and fluid, but being connected and centered on the person's aura and energy field when we would prefer silence and darkness would be a bad thing. We are on even terms One when people engage the doorbell to wrap their big eyes and ears on the photo, while pondering and ruminating in our rooms would have restored more self-empowerment.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
I would probably just take a really stereotypical and shallow approach as a starting point, for example for ESIs just hit up a ton of art galleries in the area, especially ones that exhibit scupltures, pottery and physical things like that, and definitely the worksops where you get to produce the art instead of spectate. From sheer volume alone of hitting up a bunch of places theres no way not to run into an ESI. On top of the fact that being a polar opposite character in that place (Te lead) would cause someone to easily stand out. From there maybe the approach could become more nuanced at specific. Almost all female LSEs I've met were in upper management positions at places I've worked, I've only met one before working age and she's probably now someone's manager.
@Lord Pixel, your solution is so beautifully simplistic and effective that only a clever person can think of it. :D:thumbsup: As Einstein is attributed to have said: "Genius is making complex ideas simple, not making simple ideas complex." Kudos to you!
@Adam Strange, get your ESI-Se decorator friend to pick a few art expositions, handicraft workshops, and museums to visit for you that she thinks are great. I count on your gregarious nature as a fellow LIE SX/so to simply step up to ladies who are alone there and make some conversation with them about art and to get to know them.
One mentioned how she's going to learn how to craft leather, is going to pick strawberries out in nature, and is going to go horse riding. I did horse riding for several years myself and can confirm that there are quite some ESIs and SEEs who do so. They love animals, they love the outdoors, and they love physical activities, it's their ideal hobby. You'll just have to be able to accept that the horse is practically their child, though. ;)
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Originally Posted by one
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Originally Posted by one
By the way, do you guys believe Alec Benjamin to be an ESI? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50VN...mfDnt&index=37
Dont ask me how I know this, but I know ESIs who go to these extreme drum and bass events where they all gather up up in a tiny sweaty room and dance the night away. (Well its more jumping and waving your arm, not actually dancing). I also know ESIs who are into the stereotypical skateboard/longboard stoner thing. Lastly, anything related to fashion is a good place to run into the Se subtype specifically. As for actual career choices tho, this tends to be very varied for the ESIs I've met, especially for the men.
Sounds like satanic rituals to me. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbonkel
Neal Stephenson and Nicole Galland have a new collaborative book out called The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O., and I found what seems to me to be an excellent description of the ESI-LIE Duality on page 21 of the hardback edition.
At least, it reads exactly like the way I feel in an ESI-LIE interaction. In the book, the protagonist, who seems ESI to me, is writing about her employer, Tristan, whom she has just met and who seems pretty LIE to me.
Here it is:
The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O.
by Neal Stephenson and Nicole Galland
Our dynamic was singular, unprecedented in my life, certainly. It was as if we had always been working together, and yet there was an undercurrent of something else, a kind of change that only comes at the beginning of things. Neither of us has ever acted on it – and while I am the sort who rarely acts on such things, he is (while extremely disciplined and upright) the sort who immediately acts on such things. So I attributed the buzz to the excitement of a shared endeavor. The intellectual intimacy of it was far more satisfying than any date I’d ever been on. If Tristan had a lover, she wasn’t getting the real goods. I was.
I really like those last two sentences. They are exactly how I feel when I'm around an ESI.
"Girl, go out and meet anyone you want. I'm not worried, because no one is going to beat what we, together, have."
@Foxy Grandpa, did you go out with the ESI-Se comedian tonight?
If the two of you get along so well and he already showed that the feeling is mutual, then going into a relationship together would strengthen your love for each other, right @Foxy Grandpa? Otherwise you might miss out on a great, loving guy who genuinely cares for you, is reliable, and is there for you.
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Originally Posted by Foxy Grandpa
ESIs are only half like LSIs. I've had a couple of both types of GFs, and the LSIs were like each other, and the ESIs were like each other, but they were only half like the other type. That half was the "Se/Ni" and Erotic Aggressor parts. The other parts were completely different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
@Foxy Grandpa, have you discussed with him yet what both your expectations are of this?
I'm happy for the two of you! :D:thumbsup:
Um so I was trying..but honestly, I think there's a chance he might be a catfish :o He's location keeps changing on the app, it's very odd. It's ok though because I'm talking to another SLE who seems real nice..I was sort of ignoring him up until a point, distracted by an SEE and the hot catfish SLE..but now he's got my attention :) God, dating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
I never understood why dating websites are such complete and utter crap. Paid ones included. Services designed to cut to the chase and provide an efficient way to find and connect with compatible people, end up just wasting your time and energy. Most of the time you're interacting with bots, fake profiles, scammers, or people blatantly misrepresenting themselves. I've met a few girls via Tinder and similar apps, but the overall experience on these platforms seems only marginally better. Last woman I met on Tinder turned out to be some sort of an escort or con artist, acting weirdly distant and entitled at the same time, trying to lure me into buying her a $100 drink on our first (and last) date, somehow thinking I would be down with that kind of shit.
Didn't know there was such a thing as a "foodie call." :) What's strange to me is that women are rarely explicit about what they want (in my limited experience, at least) and I have no fucking clue who I'm dealing with until they actually do or say something fucked up. Bad at reading people, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy Grandpa
That sounds like a solid strategy. Most times I don't want to waste time and just fling it, go to meet them if they are near by. But it always ends up wasting more of my time (and theirs), despite the goal being the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy Grandpa
Now that I think about it, the very few encounters I've had which haven't been horrible have been with girls I've texted and/or spoke to over the phone a couple of times, taking the time to know them a little bit prior to meeting them.
I went on a date with a blonde, blue-eyed ESI yesterday. She was pretty easy to get along with.
She showed me pictures of her co-workers. They were all blonde, attractive women, and were all (with one possible exception) Alphas.
She said “All these women stick together. I think they get ahead by sleeping with the boss. (He looked Alpha, too.). They all go to parties together, but I don’t go. I just won’t do it.”
“One of them said to me “I can’t be around you because you’re like a crazy person.”
She paused and looked at me. ”Maybe I’m crazy?”
She was not crazy. I thought she was comfortably normal. She just was a Gamma in an Alpha workplace.
I think this might be the way an Alpha might feel in a Gamma workplace.
I was in a very nice restaurant on a date with an ESI from Match who was wearing at least four rings on various fingers. She explained to me that the rings had belonged to her parents. She started taking them off and setting them on the white tablecloth, one by one.
”This one belonged to my mother. And this was my father’s ring. See how much smaller it is than my mother’s? He had little fingers.”
It briefly occurred to me to try one of the rings on my own fingers, but it was obvious to me that they wouldn’t fit. I have large knuckles and a workman’s hands.
As she was doing this, she had a sour expression on her face. Kind of a typical ESI resting bitch face mixed with condemnation memories of her parents.
The waiter had been observing us from a distance and came over to offer us more water. He said, “Oh, no. Is someone getting de-married?”
I had never heard that term before, so I was momentarily at a loss for words.
These guys must see stuff like this all the time.
I was in a restaurant yesterday and sat near a couple who seemed completely compatible with each other.
She was dark and sleek with a brilliant smile. She was wearing a low-cut black knit top which nicely constrained “that brave vibration, each way free” which seemed to happen every time she cut her steak. She exuded the feeling of “fresh, fun, and interested in YOU”.
The guy she was sitting across the table from was skinny and had a shattered look to him, as if he had been assembled from broken bits of glass and black leather scraps. He was quite a contrast to her smooth, polished exterior.
I’m pretty sure she was EIE and he was LSI.
Yes, oh God dating, indeed. Well, propose a videocall with the hot SLE, because like @Foxy Grandpa said, it's the best way to find out if he's a catfish or not. Catfish never agree to videocalls, because in-time responses cannot be stolen like photographs or deepfaked like recorded videos. Don't pass up an opportunity with a great guy, if you can determine the truth in clever ways!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Also, atta girl for finding yourself another SLE! Go at it! :high5:
@Armitage yeah I might have been being a bit paranoid, was on some meds briefly. Dating does do weird stuff to your head lol. And it’s kinda hard talking to duals/ semi duals. The video call option is not a bad idea, speeds things up too.
Ime people just want attention on those websites. At least, all the good looking ones. I've had people "like" me but suddenly when I like them back they disengage. It's like they're just testing the waters to see how desirable they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Park
How would you know such a thing unless you're projecting? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Rune
Intuition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Park
Did the dating or the psychoactive medication do weird stuff to your head?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
I guess I mean all the anticipation involved in talking to people on apps- there can be a lot of mixed emotions even just in the chatting phase. I think I get a bit scared that I’ll quite easily idealise a dual, like them and maybe end up rushing things. I had the weirdest convo with the catfish/ not catfish guy, I’ll tell you later. Both duals I’m talking to now don’t live that near me, although one is much closer than the other. It’s been a while since I’ve had a date..it will be nice if I arrange one..Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Yes, it will be good to go out on a date, as long as it's in a safe public space first, especially with the catfish/not catfish dual. I'd be interested into hearing the weird conversation you had with the catfish/not catfish dual, @Bethany. I wish you the best of luck in your search for love and may you find a nice partner for yourself, you deserve to be loved.
Or perhaps some people only swipe right without bothering to look through the pics/profiles (to save time), and once they get liked back or gain a pool of matches, then they decide whether they want to match with potential candidates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy Grandpa
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Originally Posted by Lady Lunacik
No... there are women who perceive almost anyone that speaks to them as eager, but you don't want to get with these women anyway, they're typically narcissists and it's better to avoid them. Putting women off is weeding them out, put them off, who cares. Besides, you can't sustain being inauthentic for very long anyway, inevitably you'll have to be yourself. It will always be rare that you find someone you're genuinely compatible with in a romantic sense, most relationships are just casual and that's what they should be. But if you do find the right person for you.. if you two have genuine chemistry then it's hard to screw it up, your foibles will somehow work for them.
Besides censoring yourself may be one of the few ways to screw up the interaction with the women you're compatible with.
The biggest thing to do is just get involved.
If you're someone with high intelligence you have the added difficulty of finding people you can connect with mentally... that makes it much harder.
We're talking about different things. It all exists on a spectrum. What I'm saying is don't be desperate for a relationship. If that is authentically the way a person is, it needs to change authentically. It's unhealthy, and often leads to poor judgment calls about potential partners anyhow.Quote:
Originally Posted by DogOfDanger
Your profile pic is terrible, btw. I wonder what that represents to you.
Ya, that strawberry farm sounds ideal and fancy for the overalls and trousers pitchfork of quicksilver sherbet cones of the Mickey Mouse tropical rainforest cafe for bringing the life of Brazil to the sequels of picnics with Pikachu brought to the elder race of intuitive Poke-manz that @Poptart was so afraid of!!Quote:
Originally Posted by one
Modifying ones personality based on whether women may or may not find it desperate is an act of utmost desperation. The first step in authentically changing would be to stop filtering oneself - i.e. allow that desperation to be seen. The observed behavior looks worse, but the inner world has improved...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lunacik
So if you are desperate then be desperate, it is ok.
The dog is not well... he needs your care and support.
You're thinking too narrowly. Failing to see alternatives, which seems funny coming from an Ne PoLR, but nevertheless. It's not about whether women find it desperate. That is not the measurement of the standard. Find the answer to how healthy/unhealthy is determined, and you will suddenly understand. People have a right to be put off by unhealthy red flags. Sometimes, when people are put off by things, there is a valid reason, and changing - improving - is not forsaking yourself. It's just forsaking unhealthy ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by DogOfDanger
I'd say we have a very serious disagreement here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lunacik
The first step to changing any non-trivial unhealthy habit is to openly acknowledge its existence. Change takes a while, and involves a bunch of steps, you can't just jump to the end - it doesn't occur like that. For example, in the 12 steps the first step is what? Admit you are an addict. Before one admits the problem ... openly forsaking it is just an act of denial. You are certainly denying yourself - because you do have a problem. Denial here works to maintain the ego and the illusion of normalcy, this prevents change.
And you have clearly been speaking to womens perceptions throughout.
If a man were to act not eager for a woman - act in spite of being eager (some would say desperate) - he would be denying himself. You cannot just change from eager to not-eager - you can't just jump to the end. Certainly she has a right to be put off, but this again is not what we're concerned with.
As a tangent, I really think the whole idea this eagerness (or desperation) is something to snuff out is backwards, but that's another conversation - a mans desire to get with women is a natural, biological desire.
I met my husband on Tinder after I unsuccessfully dated for almost 10 years (I have stories...). I resisted this advice for a long long time, but now I am a believer: if it's difficult early on, it's not worth it. It won't go anywhere. I wasted so much time on trying to rationalize someone's odd behavior.
Also, never ever use Plenty of Fish. All the major creeps I met, I met there. The Tinder and OkCupid creeps were a lot less creepy in their creepiness.
@Kim, I agree with you about Plenty of Fish being close to the bottom of the barrel. The only one which was worse was the local dating classified section of a “sell your stuff online” website, but that got closed down after being accused of enabling the solicitation of prostitution. Lol. Those people were truly disgusting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
However, I disagree with you when you advise giving up if it’s difficult early on. Maybe we differ in the definition of “difficult” and “early on”, but I have uniformly found that ESIs were just a bit jarring on first dates, and I had to power through, suspend judgement, and tell myself “Keep going. Don’t give up. This is normal gear-grinding on startup and things will get better.” And they do, after a few hours, after a few dates.
This also happened with my SLI ex-wife. She did some things early on which made me think she might be hiding some form of insanity. But it was just normal differences and we went on and had a fairly happy marriage for many years.
The dates which did not work out so well were the ones where everything was initially fantastic until it suddenly wasn’t. Mirage, Extinguishment, Super-Ego, Conflictor, Mirror, Supervision, etc. Everything but Duality. Duality seems to be initially difficult for me, but then just gets steadily better, as long as the Dual doesn’t find our differences to be too much to take and bails out after the first few dates.
This is consoling to read, because it means that I still have 5 years left: https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1309...f-in-ten-yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Kim
I'm not dating this woman, but I thought I'd post this here for the benefit of other LIEs.
I've been going to this Alpha restaurant for over a year (because the food is great, fresh, and local), and most of the people working there are Alphas. Even the decor is Alpha, and so are most of its clientele, if VI means anything. I've dragged a Delta to the place (SLI, and he said the food was great), and an ESI (she seemed to like it, too), but mostly only Alphas can be found there.
So a few weeks ago I was there to buy lunch and a woman working there who gave me LSE vibes came out of nowhere and addressed me by name. I thought, Fuck. She got my name from my credit card and now I have an LSE female interested in me, which is the last thing I need. She sees Te and is un-evolved and wants something familiar, I assumed, so rather than be rude to her to get her to stop, I just minimized my interactions with her.
Still, Every. Single. Time. I went in there, she was like, "Hi, Adam!" with a smile and a saucy glance. I'm like, "Oh, Hi. What was your name again?" Jesus.
So today I walked in and things were slow and I passed this woman sitting at a table and she said "Hi, Adam!" and I thought WTF? and looked at her and it was she. Except she wasn't wearing LSE clothes, she was wearing a brightly colored shirt with big yellow-and-gray earrings and she had a black nose ring in her nose.
Let me just say something here. I know a lot of LSEs, and not one of them would be caught dead wearing any of that, so she wasn't LSE after all.
As I looked at her again, I could see that she had lots of Se, just like my LSE sister, and she was actually pretty in a kind of manly "I know what I know" way, but I couldn't type her. She for sure wasn't LSE, but what was she?
So I let her order for me (which is what I often do, because the staff knows what's good) and as she was moving around and we were talking about food and stuff, it began to dawn on me that she might be an ESI.
I wrote down a link to Sociotype.com/tests and asked her to take the test there. The gay male SEE who was working with her was watching all of this and seemed really interested in the test, especially when I told him that he was probably the "Caesar-Conqueror" SEE, but the girl gave me a sour look, as if she didn't believe for a minute that people could be placed into boxes, and if they can, then she really didn't like the idea.
Which is pure ESI. Pure ESI. Socionics is very Ti, and ESIs don't like Ti very much. No ESI I've ever met IRL likes Socionics.
I'll have to ask her what her results were when I see her next. She said she knew about MBTI and she's an INTJ. Which is ridiculous. She said she got INTJ, ISFJ, INFJ, sometimes T and sometimes F, but always IxxJ.
I do think she's ESI, though. I'm kind of surprised that she persisted in trying to get my attention for months in the face of my indifference, but that's typical Aggressor behavior. Maybe she's naturally more in-tune with who she is than I am, and was being effective at Dual-seeking, while I remain totally fucking clueless.
Frankly, I’m scared of people with tattoos and body jewelry in non Bunny ears places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I personally don’t expose people to typology. I find it embarrassing and most people seem like this lady, feeling too negated from true free expression by the personality super-net.
I love thinking about types though as wrinkles of the lovely lullaby make my answer to the wild forms let my unique view and possibility nexus put to work the endless ideas and styles moving through me, so I like to think that my type taps true personal ladders to empire sized internal mindsets.
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Originally Posted by MaNBunny4eva
Yeah, I agree with you. I just like to do stupid things every once in a while.
Yea my ESI ex hated anything that even seemed like a personality test. Felt like it's unnatural to be defined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
So there's this obvious LSE at my gym, she talks a whole lot, she's a personal trainer there so she talks alot about good form, diet, and her own allergies a ton and in great detail. Pretty assertive in enforcing gyms rules too. Reminds me of other LSEs I know. She's fairly attractive and is in real good shape.
So how do I approach this chick? I don't wanna spend any money on a personal trainer, and that would make me a client instead of a romantic interest so that's a no-go, and the last time I approached a female LSE I had no intentions, I just made an observation about something she did which I thought was funny and the observation came off in a playful and teasing way which just seemed to work really well for her, but it was all natural, nothing forced.
I see no real opportunities for that with this girl, and I don't want to force anything so I'm not sure how to manufacture an opportunity or just be straight up with her, but straight up doesn't work for a 1D Te/ Se like me so that wouldn't be me playing to my strengths, I also don't want to ask for advice because she seems kinda long-winded and that would put me in a teacher/student spot which is not fun for me, do I even want this chick lol? Plus if things go south it would be real awkward seeing her at the gym again, since she works there.
@Lord Pixel, it sounds to me like you're planning on which college your kids will be going to. Maybe scale back your expectations? Try to forget that she's a Dual and just talk to her normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
I know a lot of LSEs and I can't say that any of them are married to a Dual. Most of them don't seem to like their Duals or, more often, vice-versa.
About the only time I saw a female LSE actually having a great time with a male EII was when I visited my LSE mother in the nursing home. She was deep into Alzheimers and I'd never, ever seen her engaged in a conversation with a man who wasn't my SLI dad, but there she was, looking pissed off (she always looked pissed off) but sitting and talking with this EII guy who was also an Alzheimer's patient. Neither one of them could put together two coherent sentences, but they were immensely enjoying each other's company.
So, your best weapon is your voice. Just talk to her about anything. Eventually, she'll either start liking you or she won't.
I was barely familiar with this EII guy at work, but when we all met at a bar/restaurant after hours one Friday, this guy chose to sit next to me. I thought, "Damn. This is going to be sooo boring."
But it wasn't. He just sat there and talked about random stuff and I found myself really enjoying the conversation. I thought he was playful and funny. And I'm only a Semi-Dual.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you guys get along, you might have to be the one to suggest lunch nearby. I think that LSE females are probably either inert or, if they think you are the One, are going to give you an ultimatum. "Marry me now or never ask me again." But this is just a wild-ass guess, based on very little experience.
Oh, one other thing that might help you.
I have an LSE sister who is married to an IEI (Yes! It's a horrible marriage that she is determined to make work.) We know a couple that is female SLI and male EII, and the male EII was spending a lot of time around my sister, asking her if he could be of help, etc.
I told my LSE sister that the EII was her Dual and he was acting like he liked her. She said to me that it didn't matter in the slightest if he liked her or not. She thought he was a jerk because he treated his SLI wife like shit.
That's what she said. I thought he was sometimes mean to her to escape her telling him what to do, or maybe I have that wrong, but it seemed to me that they had a relationship where they did not mesh perfectly. He wasn't totally mean to her, but he wasn't all that great to her, either. So, don't treat people like shit around the LSE. It will not improve her opinion of you.
Lol, I promise I'm not, I'm not even sure if I'd want anything with this girl, I just don't even know how to get into a conversation with her since I have no reason to talk to her. She's using that machine over there, I'm using this one over here, what am I gonna do randomly approach her and say "Hey we are duals, I just wanna see if my voice works on you, ...are you hypnotized yet?" only if it was so easy lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
But yea, forgetting she's a dual might help, that worked for the last LSE girl I talked to mostly because I didn't know her type. Her type was only revealed to me because the situation was consistently an anomaly in my personal experience. She was an 8.5/10 and I was calm af talking to her, which has never happened in all my years, she also got on with my sense of humor immediately and she broke past all my stranger barriers that I wasn't even aware of having until I realized she was past them.
I see alot of EII hate for LSE for sure. I know only 2 couples who are LSE female and EII male, and their biggest issues seem to be lack of communication on the EII's part. The EII has a problem that he's overthinking in his head and the LSE wants to know all the problems so they can come up with a solution but the EII is mulling over it, so the LSE gets frustrated and essentially tells the EII to speak up, but not all things the EII is thinking or feeling are easily put into words. Which I can see would be a problem. Another couple I saw on a forum got divorced because her musician EII husband never got a real job, which I think is probably more typical if an LSE especially female got with an EII male, and the LSE probably finds an LSI after a marriage like that.Quote:
I know a lot of LSEs and I can't say that any of them are married to a Dual. Most of them don't seem to like their Duals or, more often, vice-versa.
I guess it's never too late to meet a dual lol, even in a nursing home. I hope it doesn't take me that long.Quote:
About the only time I saw a female LSE actually having a great time with a male EII was when I visited my LSE mother in the nursing home. She was deep into Alzheimers and I'd never, ever seen her engaged in a conversation with a man who wasn't my SLI dad, but there she was, looking pissed off (she always looked pissed off) but sitting and talking with this EII guy who was also an Alzheimer's patient. Neither one of them could put together two coherent sentences, but they were immensely enjoying each other's company.
So, your best weapon is your voice. Just talk to her about anything. Eventually, she'll either start liking you or she won't.
Hm, I do know the Te voice on a woman is attractive to me sometimes, so maybe it goes both ways, I hadn't considered that. It is hard to view yourself objectively in that way, usually when we hear our own voices on recording we are shocked at the way we sound because we sound so different in our own head.
Oh yea I remember you mentioned this guy before. Yea I have a couple LIE friends and with one of them we have a really good time, I get the sense that he doesn't feel I am a competitive threat to him or something, because otherwise he's a pretty intense guy. It's like when he's around me it's like he tells himself "Ok, weapons down."Quote:
I was barely familiar with this EII guy at work, but when we all met at a bar/restaurant after hours one Friday, this guy chose to sit next to me. I thought, "Damn. This is going to be sooo boring."
But it wasn't. He just sat there and talked about random stuff and I found myself really enjoying the conversation. I thought he was playful and funny. And I'm only a Semi-Dual.
Damn, 2 inert mfers. It is rough trying to get someone else to do something with 1D Se, even when I am successful it is always a shock like "Wait, you're actually gonna to do what I said?". This doesn't necessarily feel like I'm leading with Fi or something, even though it's in the area of relations, leading with Fi would be more like, ok I see your having a bad time so I'll put my arm around you and just sit next to you in silence while you just feel it out, or taking someone somewhere I think they like according to things they said, ok maybe I just solved the problem.Quote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you guys get along, you might have to be the one to suggest lunch nearby. I think that LSE females are probably either inert or, if they think you are the One, are going to give you an ultimatum. "Marry me now or never ask me again." But this is just a wild-ass guess, based on very little experience.
The ultimatum thing is scary and kinda weird ngl. But I can see how it's an overboard use of 1D LSE functions, Fi and Ni. It seems like if LSE some how makes it to the point of wanting to be with somebody they go all the way in. My LSE friend right now met a girl recently and he's already got her meeting the mom and everything, and is anticipating getting married.
It's a shame because I have really really good relations with SLI, the best after ESI, but there are issues because of how good the relations are it's easy to develop unspoken expectations and then the problems arise. Best friends when things are going great, but useless to each other when things aren't, and that can be a major letdown all because your expectations got higher and higher over time with how good everything was going.Quote:
Oh, one other thing that might help you.
I have an LSE sister who is married to an IEI (Yes! It's a horrible marriage that she is determined to make work.) We know a couple that is female SLI and male EII, and the male EII was spending a lot of time around my sister, asking her if he could be of help, etc.
I told my LSE sister that the EII was her Dual and he was acting like he liked her. She said to me that it didn't matter in the slightest if he liked her or not. She thought he was a jerk because he treated his SLI wife like shit.
That's what she said. I thought he was sometimes mean to her to escape her telling him what to do, or maybe I have that wrong, but it seemed to me that they had a relationship where they did not mesh perfectly. He wasn't totally mean to her, but he wasn't all that great to her, either.
I imagine this is true for most people though.Quote:
So, don't treat people like shit around the LSE. It will not improve her opinion of you.
Don't knock it 'till you've tried it, Adam. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Not only LSEs wouldn't want to even be caught dead anything like that, me neither. Whenever I see some psychology students wearing that, my gaze tends to fixate on it and I just imagine the snot that it must conceal. Gross. It looks to me like they robbed a bull of his nose ring. Those nose ringed students tend to fall into one of two groups. There are the weird, but nice ones. They can wear all gothic clothing, while their personality is as warm and optimistic as sunshine. They tend to identify as gothics, because they suffer from depression. And there are the weird and Karen ones. They wear short, brightly dyed red, blue, or even green hair, more often than not wear glasses, frequently have multiple piercings besides the nose ring, and one or more tattoos with the suicidal lyrics of a song of their favourite emo band inscribed on their arm or they have a tattoo of Harry Potter or Life Must Be Strange character, because they use fiction as escapism. Besides the depression these ones generally also suffer from borderline personality disorder, which is not mere conjecture on my behalf as a psychology student, but because they discussed this in different workgroups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Ah, is that your method? Mine is to discuss that they do X like I do, which we have in common, but others do Y. And I then mention if they are familiar with the psychological theory that discusses this? They all don't, but it piques their curiosity. Then I tell them it's called Socionics and send them this PDF: http://francois-garet.e-monsite.com/...onics-type.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I inform them that I'm a LIE, and I believe them to be for instance an ISFj. But I won't tell them the Socionics translation of it just yet, because I don't want to bias them before they had the opportunity to read it themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
LOL, this is just like my ESI-Se cycling friend. He doesn't believe in Socionics and thinks it all way too out there. Only when getting his questionnaire result did he realize it's just like the MBTI test he did previously. According to his Socionics and MBTI test results he would be an ILI, but I have several ILI friends and he is not like them. At the national historical museum he didn't even know what hieroglyphs are. He asked me if that's the Egyptian alphabet. His naivity is cute. He also mentioned at the pharaohs and tombs section how he believes that in our culture the appreciation of art has been lost compared to the Egyptians. An ILI would instead have mentioned some fact on the labyrinths through which the pharaohs wished to ensure their eternal rest, even going so far as killing the architects and builders to keep it a secret. My ESI-Se cycling friend also hits the Gym regularly and helps me with my emotional struggles, while I provide him study tips. By all means, he is an ESI and I'm as sure of it as that I'm a LIE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
If you're nearby and she is not actively working (important, don't disturb a Te lead in work mode) ask her if she saw that cute baby bird flying passed the window? Before you go to the Gym look up a cute baby bird that could be found in the area, so you don't have to look for words to describe nor that you would describe some exotic bird from Madagascar. It's a little white lie to open up the conversation, catch her off guard, and endear her to you, because it makes you look innocent instead of a rebellious rulebreaking Beta. After you've started the conversation it's all up to you two how it progresses, because you'll need two to tango. At least this might break the ice for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
There are many Gyms, but few dateworthy people who are also duals. Take your chances now that you've encountered an opportunity!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
Unless you pressure someone into doing your bidding, would this not be Te when you attempt to convince someone to do something or Fe when you try to persuade them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
@Armitage, she's actually very pretty in a warm, accepting way and I'm intrigued by her, but she's not thin. She's not fat, either, but rather she's solidly built, and that is a bridge too far for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
So, no danger that I'm ever going to get involved with her.
I liked the colorful shirt and her earrings, but I specifically said nothing about her nose ring. I kind of hate this kind of thing on women, too. Just a personal preference of mine. Women should look like models, not cattle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
But she wasn't wearing the nose ring because she's goth. She really isn't close to being goth, but rather I think she had it done because it's a way for her to decorate herself. Probably she has friends who do this, IDK, and she sees it as being normal. It's just her bad luck to run into a dinosaur like myself who thinks that's low-class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Yes, that has been my method, and it's terrible. I'm seeing that it alienates the ESIs right away, and if they haven't been given a very good reason for liking me before I tell them about Socionics, I don't get a second chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Your method is better.
Yes, it would seem that any artificial attempt to initiate relations with a Dual is going to be doomed by one or the other for being too fucking weird and a sign that you aren't dealing with a person who acts the way that your Dual does naturally (cluelessly).Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
:(
Yeah, it's interesting. Tinder led to some major changes in my life after meeting an IEE there 7 years ago. She lived across the sea in the neighboring country (only 80km as the crow flies, but inconvenient ferry schedules). After just a couple of months of dating weekends (driving 10 hours one way, it did give some more hours there than taking the ferry), I left my job and life in the old country behind and moved together with her. One year later our daughter was born. That's when the problems started, neither of us wanted to compromise our freedom and free time and a lot of arguments started, turning into coldness from my side and bluntness from her side. After 3 years, I had enough after a cold patch and wanted to end the relationship (at some level I think I just wanted her to show me that she really wanted to be with me, and not just in words). She moved back to her old hometown 5 hours drive away, but I pretty much immediately found myself driving every single weekend and vacations to her and our child. After 4 years and countless of kilometers driven, I've now found a new job up here and moved into a rented apartment in the same village she lives in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
It's been one hell of an adventure and I don't know how it will end. But it seems like it became something I just wasn't able to let go of, unlike other relationships in my life. So I don't know, it was super great and easy immediately but then some major difficulties appeared. However compared to the other relationships she has had, this is the most enduring one, and the same goes for me if you factor in all the obstacles. But maybe it's the super-ego ITR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
Plus, having a kid with someone changes everything. A guy starts to think long-term.
nice advice, ta. Were some of the difficult people duals..? Guessing some..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
yeah I have to remind myself to swipe right/ like both hotties as well as people who look nice-ish. If one is really serious about meeting someone, and doesn't want to wait too long, it's important to look out for hidden gems. The hot ones are distracting and the interesting ones can be a complete waste of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametric
I just started using Tinder after an SLE suggested I do on a sort of date. And now I’m taking to what feels like an SLE who grew up in my area. Yay Tinder
I am actually very tolerant of unusual behavior and quirks. What I meant was odd dating behavior, most specifically push pull after those first few dates. It happened SO MANY times that people were initially super excited, then retreated, then came back, etc. Or super excited people vanished into thin air and would reappear later with bullshit excuses. If you can't feel sure early on (and I mean when you both know you are dating) that it's going somewhere because the person is inconsistent emotionally, it's not worth pursuing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I don't share your intertype experiences - in my experience so much also has to do with life circumstances, personal histories, expectations, fears, etc. But I might send you a few pics of my husband for VI. ;) I am still not sure.
This sounds very complicated, but it seems like the adjustments are working out fine? Are you back together?Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
Yes, that's what I did. I swiped right on people who I was mildly to very attracted to or, if I didn't find them super attractive, whose profile text appealed. I went on dates with all types over 10 years. When I saw my now-husband's profile, he fell into the "too hot AND great profile text so won't go anywhere because he will have a million matches" category. But I swiped anyway and we matched. We started chatting and he was so nice, so I thought "I am not that lucky, but we can be friends maybe" (we had both JUST moved into the city and were also looking for friends). We had our first date (I was not even nervous because I was convinced it would be just friendly), he was even more gorgeous, nice and charming in person. It was the best date of my life, more followed and now we are married.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
I will say though that I EARNED this after ABYSMAL dating experiences over a DECADE! ;)
But yeah, don't count out the hot ones. ;)
I think Tinder is by far the best dating app, also because people seems to be much more willing to actually meet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
There were a lot of lessons to learn, and unfortunately the hard way. But yes, it looks like that's going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
BeforeQuote:
Originally Posted by one;[URL="tel:1510187"
Hinge and Bumble focus more on personality than Tinder, in my experience. On Hinge you have to come up with something to say to the person, in order to like them, which culls all those people who are liking everyone on Tinder just to date the hottest person who they match with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
Oh my good lord you've set me off so hard it hurts. "Best" dating app? Tinder? Please do not even get me started on this one. Tinder (and its lookalikes like Grindr) are all about "Hook-Up" culture. That is, people who have deep attachment issues and who also have no idea what I'm referring to when I say those words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
Willing to meet? Who? A total fucking stranger? Yeah, that's about it. ONS is as far as that goes at best. At worst? You both mistake that ONS as a "deep" emotional connection. It is not and will never be.
Tinder dates are implicitly ONS's. The two of you are so utterly broken that you think that's just how it is. The woman found someone who valued her "sexy" body enough to overlook her glaring character flaws. The male found some dumb broad that was actually willing to give him the vaginal approval he so desperately desired. Everyone wins!
Well, no they don't. Hell I'll wager you a bet. Try to go on a Tinder date and attempt to nab a peek at their I.D. I'll wager a vital body part that if you somehow succeed their "name" will not match. Only do this if you're feeling rather lucky enough to win the lotto however. I dare not goad anyone of any type into doing something this friggin' risky.
Seriously, don't do this. I really mean that. Yet if you wish to provide me with this data point regardless despite my warnings...
You don't think ONS can produce deep emotional connections? Why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by End
I have no idea if Tinder will prove any better than other apps. My first impression is that it feels quicker to use (literally quicker to look through profiles) and people seem slightly more attractive/interesting. There seem to be more quirky/ outgoing people there than on hinge/bumble. The other apps seem to have more of a pretence of being classy but they’re just as gross, possibly worse. I think I’d rather use the app that doesn’t pretend to be something better than it is.
Yesterday, my last LSI GF called me twice and left messages, which I didn’t read. She is like a powerful drug that I don’t want to start using again. Parts of our relationship were just the best, and other parts were the worst. I tried to point her towards a Dual so she’d have best and best, but apparently, she hasn’t been able to make sense of the situation and move on.
I remember that my last ESI GF said that her first SEE husband was a drug addict and her second LSI husband betrayed her trust and her shrink said that her “man radar” was really off. She told me that it was off so much, that she didn’t think she could ever be in a relationship again. :(
Relationships are hard. Especially if you are flying without a flight plan.
Socionics might not be the best, or only, criterion for dating, but I think it can seriously reduce some of the worst heartaches.
yep it’s really useful if it’s used in a healthy way..once you learn from the mistakes of misusing it. And the Adventures in dating thread is cool toooQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Your warning is a bit too late. I had lots of Tinder dates with no intention to hook up. I put that in my profile and told people before a date that I am not looking to hook up. The majority of my dates were pleasant, some lead to dating. Sure I met some creeps, but so what? You can meet creeps at the supermarket, too. Women at the club can also give you a fake name.Quote:
Originally Posted by End
Tinder used to be a hook-up date, but it's not anymore. People who want to hook up say so and you just swipe left on them. I have several good friends now who I met on Tinder (and never slept with).
Maybe it's how you use it. It worked well for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
All these dating sites are just a way to meet more people. What you do when you meet them is up to you.
I think the alternative (becoming a crazy dog person) is pretty appealing, too. I was well on my way there and not too sad about it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Exactly. My strategies were to make it clear I don't want to chat forever, that I am not looking for a hook-up, always meet for dinner on the first date so we can have a conversation (I lived in a very small town at the time with one decent restaurant in town. I am sure they thought I was an escort...), and weed out the ones who refuse to let me try their food or don't want to order desert after I told them I love desert. Also don't drink and always drive myself home. Weed out the ones who don't ask you to text them to let them know if you got home safely (especially when you have to drive long-ish distance). Weed out the ones who offer use of sex machines, whose accents don't match their life stories (granted those are my best dating stories).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I think Tinder is also the most popular one, so more people to chose from? I totally agree on the classy pretense. It's just silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
We both know that you're trying to tempt people to follow your scheme, despite the risks inherent to it, while you try to claim the moral high ground through plausible deniability. Either be forthright about your motivations or don't mention it all is my advice, but this middleground seems inauthentic and fake. I didn't mince my words, because I know that you can handle it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by End
I was walking through the packed dirt-and-gravel parking lot of the Salvation Army store next to the railroad tracks, to buy lunch at the little specialty grocery nearby, when I saw a twenty-something woman standing outside, next to a shopping cart with a cardboard box in it.
Since my path crossed right next to where she was standing, we made eye contact as I approached and she said "Hi".
I said "Hi" in return, and since I was still approaching her and walking past her in silence would be awkward, I made a circle to maintain a stranger's distance and then stopped out of decency and asked her if the Salvation Army store still had clothes arranged by color?
She laughed and said "They do!" and I told her that I hadn't been in there since they opened, but they seemed to have a lot of stuff in there.
She said "You can get a lot of great deals in there. Some of this is new, some has only been worn once." She pulled what looked like a Cashmere sweater out of the box.
"This looks like it is brand new. It would be over $100 new, and I got it for..." here, she showed me the price tag on the sweater "....ten dollars. You can find some great deals here."
"Nice."
"My ex wife, who was 5'8" and weighed 115 lbs, gave away a beautiful white silk dress to St. Vincent De Paul when she gained a few pounds, so I know about people getting rid of stuff that's barely been worn."
She, herself, was dressed very simply and plainly, but you can always use a cashmere sweater. They are very warm. I've had one or two.
I was watching her closely to try to assess which sociotype she was. She was easy to talk to and generally pleasant, but I couldn't decide between ESI and ESE. This might seem strange, but for some reason, and with some people, I have a hard time telling these two types apart in a short time. With more exposure, it becomes obvious, but we were standing in a parking lot.
"Sometimes", she continued, "something is only missing a button."
"I haven't sewn a button on a shirt since college. If I lose a button, I have to throw the shirt away."
"I have a seamstress for that."
"Really? What's her name?"
"Olga", and she told me where Olga's shop was. Which was great! A resource. I have two shirts that are missing buttons but I haven't thrown them out yet.
"Do you shop here often?", I asked.
"Oh, no. I actually hate to shop. But I have two little boys..." I glanced at her left hand, which had no wedding ring "....and they are messy." She rubbed her hands up and down the front of her clothes.
"Two little boys. So messy. They do art projects and get paint all over me, and food." I pictured two little kids making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
"I solved the food preparation problem by eating most of my meals out", I said.
"We mostly get carry out. I just got a new job that doubled my income, but buying new clothes is expensive, which is why I shop here. My name is Carrie, incidentally. What's yours?"
"Hi, Carrie. My name is Adam, It's nice to meet you, but I should get lunch while there's still a selection left." I nodded towards the little store across the tracks.
"Yes, you should. I'm just waiting for my ride." She waved her hand and looked around.
"It was nice meeting you."
"Nice meeting you, too." And off I went. For some reason, I could feel her eyes on my back as I walked across the tracks.
When I got my lunch and returned, she was gone.
A lot of very specific information exchanged hands in that short amount of time. She's trying hard, really hard. With two little boys, I can understand why.
SEE/SLE are pretty annoying people to talk to on apps. Unless you shower them in attention, they don’t understand that it takes two people to move a conversation along. Ewewew. Better put my fake nice hat on. Then they just find that weird. Silly people. I’m not great at small talk but at least I try :/
TRUE AND xSEs ARE THE SAME "))))Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Interesting….I actually used to find it easier talking to people on apps. Two things have changed: I had some bad experiences..and I am now more committed to the idea of dating. So I have my guard up a bit too much I think, it feels real/scary. Need to relax a bit coz I’ve learned the hard lessons now..Actually an SLE told me to ‘have more fun with it’..Quote:
Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist
SEIs are a mystery to me too. I had my own very bad experience. One of the first things he said when we met were that his mates were all arseholes to women…and he himself projected an image of being saintly. It’s as if he thought acting like a gentleman at moments completely made up for him being a jerk the rest of the time. I gave him several chances to prove he could stop flirting and playing mind games with me. In the end I had to physically remove myself from him, like I was escaping an abusive relationship. When we first met he flirted, then he became disgusted/cool with me after I told him I liked him, then later he tried to be nice but by this point he couldn’t even be nice if he tried, he was not in control anymore and it was clear there was something between us whether he liked it or not. To this day I doubt he can see how out of control he was, I think there was some identity blurring between us, and I don’t think he was seeing reality as it was. He probably just thinks he ‘saw me as a friend’. I think this is partly as we are look-a-likes so there can be a bit of an underlying friend feeling, but it’s also I think something that comes and goes. Also, I think though we had incredible chemistry, he was more confident and successful than me, and my flaws were probably a bit of a turn off lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minde
I think SEIs are probably quite sensitive to the different feel of people’s sociotypes. I could see them judging people quickly, or over-estimating people based on first impressions. I imagine with me, he just knew it wasn’t as good as say a semi-dual. He told me ‘never going to happen’, it’s like he knew it wasn’t good enough, there was better. I could see them easily being infatuated with types that are easier to talk to- mirrors or activity partners.
I once worked with another SEI for a year. He was a really nice person, we were instantly good friends. He had a long term gf but an ESE later told me that he had a crush on me and liked me more than his gf but didn’t think I’d like him. Perhaps it was just a convo between them, ‘thinking out loud’…but it’s something I can picture an SEI doing…having crazy thoughts about leaving their life partner…and then changing their mind completely the next day.
I also knew an SEI and EII who were together for 4 years during uni. I remember when they broke up she told me he told her ‘I never loved you’. At the time I thought maybe he didn’t, now I just think oh typical of an SEI to say. I honestly think they would change their opinion of their idea or what love is day to day, month to month, year to year. All
this said, they are my fave type (I still think the SEI who hurt me is a lovely person..I think) and I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up in a relationship with one at some point. I dislike the line in socionics literature that says lookalikes don’t value each other highly. I think the highs of lookalike interaction with SEIs are probably worth the lows. But I’d like to date a semi-dual too.
what is it about SEIs lol
fortunately I haven’t had any issues with ESE males, I don’t seem to come across them much..
edit: I would like to add that I have a female SEI friend who is not like any of the above at all. When she talks about her love for her partner it is with a deep reverence. She is more the type to be messed about rather than doing the messing about.
Have you seen the movie “50 First Dates”?
If so, then you know what it’s like to date an ESI.
A bunch of people met up after the meeting at a restaurant, and we sat around a big table, eating, talking, and getting to know each other.
Amidst the din, I could hear the ESI talking to her companion:
ESI: Of all the people here, I like him the best.
Companion: Bzzz bzzz bzzz. Bzzzzz.
ESI: He’s not wearing a ring.
Companion: Bzzz bzzzz.
ESI: I wouldn’t have to work hard.
Now I know what it’s like to have big tits.
You should just do you, regardless of what someone tells you to do, because only friends and family members are close enough to you to trust their advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
When applying this directly, it would mean that you should take my advice to not trust advice with a grain of salt, so if you abide by it, you would have to ignore my advice to follow it, and if you ignore my advice you should then take advice from strangers, which would mean that you would follow my advice... And the cycle continues. :Ti: ERROR: The primary data loop has exceeded the maximum number of iterations. SHUTting down... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR4H76SCCzY
@Armitage Haha I don’t think I’ll be rushing to talk to that particular SLE again. I honestly don’t feel good after dates with random SLEs who I don’t fancy. I get a sort of unclean feeling. However, it is important to me be in a good mood, and an SLE telling me to be more positive does seem to uplift me somehow. I am actually feeling in a much better mood these days. I had some disappointment about a date that never happened recently, but I ate some ice cream and didn’t get too down about it. And I am free from the SEI boy and it’s spring time and I feel confident in my socionics knowledge rather than entrapped by it, I feel open-minded. But I do hope one of two people I’m talking to end up liking me..
@Armitage @Adam Strange ESIs are rather strange creatures to me, I’ve been thinking about them recently. What I like about them, and other IJs is that when they talk to you they do seem to focus all their attention on you. I’m enjoying talking to ESIs atm, about work politics and also, men. They are ESI-se colleagues of mine. It did take a while to warm to each other, at first I would have a feeling of ‘I don’t know how to start a convo with you’, now I don’t worry so much and just wait til it’s the right moment.
sorry if I should put this in a new thread..do you guys ever tell your dates about socionics? I told an SLE about it recently, he lives super far from me so there wasn't much of a chance of anything happening but it kind of just came up in convo. He seemed quite interested in it but kept saying he hadn't had time to read about it. Another guy who I think is SLE kinda pissed me off last week. He seemed super keen at first and then disappeared. We live like half a mile from each other so I really wanted to go on a date with him lol. I get this crazy urge to just tell him about socionics. I probably won't, at least not for ages. He looks a bit intimidating so it could truly backfire on me lol. I've had quite enough of SLE misbehaviour...:) Maybe his sixth sense is better than mine and he just knows we don't suit..
ESI coworker stuck in a codependent relationship with a cheating SEE and 6 kids between them and struggling
I told my LSI GF about Socionics around the fifth date or so. Because Socionics said that she and I were not “Duals”, she hated it and persistently tried to debunk it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
I told an IEI about it and she didn’t believe me but was diplomatic about it.
I told an ESI-Se about Socionics and she told me she hated the whole idea about it because she doesn’t think people can be put into boxes.
I told an ESI-Fi about it, and she didn’t hear a word I said, because she has her own way of categorizing people. She has her Fi, which is the moon and the stars.
All in all, trying to ripen a field before that field has any reason to ripen is a losing game.
So now, I tend only to use Socionics to my own advantage, and I let other people manage as best they can.
One of the most resonant phrases that I’ve ever heard is “I could help these people, but I don’t want to.”
I laughed out loud when I heard that, because it openly states what I usually feel.
But in regards to sharing the knowledge of Socionics, I can say “I tried to help these people but they didn’t want help.”
C’est la vie.
this is so cute of the LSIQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
aw. It's taken me a long time to get used to that aspect of it. You kinda get over it in the end right..Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
This sounds so ESI-fi. I like it..too good for socionics :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
yeah duals have a weird enough effect on me as it is..without giving them more reason to mess me aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
haha I get this evil feeling sometimes because I haven't told people about socionics...I can't tell everyone :/ I can't tell my whole work place lol. I have told close friends/ my sister.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I am tempted to message a guy I went on a couple of dates with a year or so ago. He is a dual. At the time I wasn’t sure if I liked him. He is from the other side of the world so his background was quite different to mine. On our dates we had some awkward moments- I remember eating something really awkwardly/ clumsily and I remember him dancing really awkwardly. Unlike other duals he didn’t make me feel like he wanted to pounce on me lol. I worry a bit about dating people who come from somewhere far away as I don’t wanna leave where I live ever and they might want to move nearer to their home. Also, he may be with someone now. Considering messaging him but coz he’s a dual I get a bit scared for some reason, they just spin my head a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Distance is a bitch.
A relationship that might unfold gradually and naturally over many repeated, low-cost meetings turns into a live-or-die gamble when the barriers to entry are high and you only get one chance to make a lifelong decision.
@Adam Strange uh sounds awful! He lives in my city, I just worry that he wouldn’t wanna stay. Also….I thought a cute SEE had unmatched me but it was just tinder being buggy. Just this min I realised he hadn’t and so now I have this SEE guy chatting to me about rave music and partying and not gonna lie, it’s…interesting…dating is such a weird mix of trying to be boringly practical/strategic one minute and emotions flying around the next.
one min you think you’ll die alone, the next you’re getting all excited over someone you haven’t yet met…dating apps are bizarre. I wish I was young again and didn’t need them so much.
@Bethany, I'd date them both if I were you, although SLEs and SEEs seem to absolutely hate cheaters (while not wanting to be held to that standard themselves), so I wouldn't lie about the fact that you are seeing more than one guy, but neither would I advertise the fact. You can keep things light and non-committal until you decide yea or nay for each of the guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Just date them and see how it goes. You might be pleasantly surprised and find that you naturally grow closer to one of them, or you might discover that they each have some characteristic which makes them unsuitable. You get to decide.
I don't know if this means anything, but I've noticed a pattern in my dating.
Right after having sex for the first time, I and the first LSI that I dated slept over at each other's apartments. I think we were both thinking about marriage, although I changed my mind after a while.
Same thing happened with the SLI ex-wife. I slept at her place the first time we had sex.
But with the second LSI, even though we were seeing each other for four years, I can't remember a single time when either of us spent the whole night at the other's place.
Same with the last ESI-Fi GF I dated last summer. She kicked me out of bed in the middle of the night to drive home "because she had to work in the morning and needed her sleep." I invited her several times to stay overnight at my place after sex, but she refused, and drove herself an hour's distance home.
Maybe this is some kind of sign.
@Adam Strange very nice advice, thank you. Yes, I guess dating more than one person could be good for me. I have a tendency to idealise people, (when I fancy them) and having someone to compare them to, might make me do that less. Cool, we’ll I’ll see if the SLE wants to chat again.
It could be..I guess it could be to do with feeling instinctively trusting towards a person. Like you want to be by their side always. I’ve been thinking about people I’ve dated casually or been attracted to. There are many who approached me or gave the first sign of being interested..who probably could have been decent long term boyfriend material. I think the ones I’ve gone after (the ones I liked the most) were probably the ones that would have been more short lived, although more passionate. I’m only speculating but..I think the ones I went after, (and they did like me back at least a little) were all a bit too similar to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I've been discovering this pattern as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Not dating, but still.
I had a weird chemistry with the SLE I've been getting to know, like insta "he's cool" clicking vibes, but it died out. What started as fun grew into something that, while entertaining, makes me feel out of place around him and mismatched as far as compatibility goes. I can only keep up the introductory banter for so long before I settle back into my seriousness. Also been noticing some things I'm not OK with and it has turned into a bit of gentle supervising. The ESI and I have been growing closer, she's thus far the only one of my new friendship efforts that tapped into the real me. The me that lies beneath my guarded exterior (which I don't carry myself with on the forums, I let my inner world flow more freely here). I find that she is incredibly insightful, too. I didn't have to say much for her to catch on to some things. That is a lot like how I am, too.
Random ramble about dating even though I have not been dating:
I've always known this to some extent, but really clicked in my brain the other day that my level of self-development is not where it needs to be at in order for me to have a healthy romantic relationship.
I think I had this delusion/fantasy that, if I found the right guy and he liked me back, it would somehow work out fabulously despite all my issues. But the reality is that I wouldn't want to date someone with my current amount of insecurity, anxiety, bad habits, and spiritual doubts. So, it was pretty silly for me to think any boyfriend would put up with that in my case—or even could put up with that, without me draining his energy and ultimately being a negative force in his life. If I was in a serious relationship right now, I'd either have to somehow hide parts of myself to seem like a healthy individual or drag all my current garbage into the relationship. Not to mention, even if there's a guy who would/could put up with all my problems without being negatively affected by them, the fun of going on dates would be ruined by my social anxiety and insecurity. I feel like, on a date, I'd be totally self-conscious, fixated on whether or not I'm "good enough" rather than enjoying the moment and figuring out whether my date and I truly compatible. I obviously need to feel confident in being "good enough" before I go on any date because, otherwise, my dating experience might turn into a stressful validation-chasing experience.
I guess I finally feel 100% content with being single, though for pathetic/sad reasons lol.
You come across as a nice and kind person to me, @Dreymagine. I haven't noticed yet any of your quirks, but of course I'm just a series of ones and zeroes passed on from Europe to the States, so I don't know you that well. I think that it's important that you find someone who isn't afraid to accept that we're human beings and that you have your struggles too.
Are you aware that the best way to become more confident and less anxious about something is through exposure therapy? It is also known as get yourself out of your head and into the dating zone, so you can gain experience and feel more self-assured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreymagine
I respect @Adam Strange, but my Fi is basically screaming out at his advice to date multiple people at the same time. To put it lightly, it's a high risk, no increased reward tactic, which makes absolutely no sense to me. Since you haven't spoken to the SLE for over a year, it doesn't matter if you don't for a few more months. And even if you have already texted him you can just keep it amicably for now. Focus on the SEE first, because he has showed active interest in you at present, whereas you have no clue yet if the SLE is still available. I'd suggest that you only date one person at the time, @Bethany, in order to not risk losing them all. No-one likes being seen as the second choice, so it risks them simply moving onto someone else who does see the Se-dom as number #1, like they want to be perceived as.
Mine did as well at first, but I also think it's efficient. When you're conflicted between two, it can be helpful to explore both avenues until you can decide. Whether they are ok with this or not is a subjective matter, and you're right, it's a risky one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
If I was put into that position, I wouldn't like it and I'd see myself out and tell them to go for the other girl. I don't believe in competing, though; I believe if you're not sold on me, you're not the one for me. I want someone with stronger conviction in their feelings for me than that. I want to be unquestionably adored, cherished, valued, like I'm the one and there's no doubt. Bonnie and Clyde.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA7AIQw-7Ms
I recognize that is subjective and hold no one else to that standard when giving relationship advice, but I do make it known that there are going to be some people like me: you will lose one by going for both with some people. For others, my input differs...
A certain distance would need to be maintained in order to successfully pull this off without harming anyone. If you can maintain that distance and then make a choice once it begins to close, you should be fine. It is, at that point, mere interest. There's nothing wrong with having an interest in two people that you know, as long as things don't begin to get intimate with both. Intimacy is where you draw the line - that can be physical, emotional, all sorts of things. Too many to rattle off here. If you don't confidently have control of the psychological distance between yourself and others, I wouldn't advise it, lest you overstep your boundaries. If you think you can maintain it at that: friendship with some contained interest in more...it's really not risky. That is just crushing on more than one person you're not with while making a decision.
I've never been on a date yet, but there's this guy who always catches my attention , even though we're interested in each other there was no real contact between us (I've made some plans so I can talk to him face to face - while pretending that what's happening is just a random coincidence - but every time I implement it , it fails due to many reasons ( for example: the school makes a sudden decision without informing us, so the timing of the plan fails )
However, on one day he decided to take the first step, but this is what happened:
He approached me a little, and by chance I opened my mouth completely so I could yawn, when I saw him I was ashamed, and I immediately turned my face, because of his low Fi , he thought I did not want him, so he got confused , stopped for a second and then went away
Silly story but anyway ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Well, here’s the thing. You can’t always control when people come into your life, and you probably can’t know a person very well, right away. At least, that’s true in my case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreymagine
For me, the dating stage is when I’m getting to know a person, and that person is getting to know me. Friends first, maybe, then if they like me, too, maybe something more. If things don’t look like “forever” and we decide not to get closer, then neither of us feels shocked or surprised or betrayed.
I’m not really conflicted very often, but I am usually unsure. Fi is the ability to assign a clear, personal value to things, and I don't do Fi well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan
This is absolutely true for every ESI that I’ve ever met. So far, none of them have felt that way about me, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan
Maybe I’m waiting for the same thing. Lol.
This is actually very perceptive. It’s exactly how I close the distance in relationships. Sometimes, the other person wants to grow closer, but usually, they don’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan
I’ve been in a lot of relationships, and have been in love with many of the women. Some of them have been in love (or so it appeared) with me, but I’ve only ever asked one woman to marry me, and she refused. She wanted to just keep on having sex and living in our own respective places. I gave her an ultimatum and she finally agreed, but marriage was not something that she wanted in her future.
So, when it comes to some kind of magical meeting of two like minds and two hearts beating as one, that hasn’t happened to me yet. That state of simultaneity has eluded me, hence I just show up and see where the woman is headed.
There is one other complication. When two people are very young, they neither know so well how things turn out, nor do they have a lot of material possessions to complicate a joint venture. This makes commitment a lot easier, believe it or not.
So he's a logical fellow? Then the solution is simple, just walk up to him and be forthright about why you turned away. If he's genuinely interested into you, he'll give you a second chance. As a practical tip, the next time that you yawn cover your mouth with your hand, because that's the polite thing to do instead of turning away. While I write this part about yawning, I'm constantly yawning myself and covering my mouth with my hand. Yawning is so infectious, LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by decqueen
"Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreymagine
--- Bernard Baruch
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreymagine
-- Mark Twain
"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
-- Confucius
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan
I fixed it for you. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan
Seriously @Bethany, it's better to serially date than to multitask in dating. The SEE you spoke to recently, so you know that he's single and interested into you. In contrast, you haven't spoken with the SLE for over a year, if the SLE has remained single and is willing to get back in touch again with you after a year of no communication between the two of you, then he's probably also willing to do so after a year and some months, so he's no priority, but the SEE is. Give the SEE your undivided attention and if things don't work out between him and you, you can always get back to the SLE later. This way you can eat your cake and have it too, while also playing it safe instead of gambling your dates away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Jesus. I just read this and caught myself yawning. Lol.
@Armitage thanks Armitage, I’ll see how it goes. I do want to meet the SEE too. I only had 2 dates with the SLE..maybe just one more to see.. ;)
It's the empathy region of your brain that gets activated by observing or reading about other people's behaviours. We feel closer to friends and family and with it the brain activity of our empathy region scales. It triggers mirror neurons to mimic these behaviours in yourself, in order to fit better into the social group. People enjoy being around like minded others, even simple things such as having a music interest in common, a shared parenting stage, or mimicked behaviours increase your chance of being hired by the job interviewer, despite such diffuse status characteristics having no overlap with the job requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Why is it that we like having things in common with others so much? Because it confirms our worldview. There exists no way to measure our worldview objectively, but what comes closest is by consulting others for their perception. The more people who confirm our beliefs, the likelier it becomes that they are correct. But encountering disagreement with our worldview suggests that it is an inaccurate model of reality and that we should change our beliefs. It is a very energy intensive and time consuming process to change our worldview, hence we are rather not showed to be wrong. Because food used to be a scarce throughout most of our evolution, it was important to save energy. This meant that sometimes it was more convenient to hide from the truth and ignore it, so we could use our limited time and energy to focus on hunting for and gathering food instead of philosophizing about the nature of reality. This habitual ignorance still remains strong with quite some people even in the 21st century, unfortunately.
Be prepared to make a choice, though. Best of luck, Beth!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Not necessarily. I am not caught up with the specific case being spoken about here and I am speaking in general, but people are different. Polyamory is pretty common these days as well. Peoples' values vary. I get that you feel strongly about your own personal judgment on the matter, but the strength of your conviction doesn't equate to fact. Values are subjective, there isn't a one size fits all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
There are two things here that LIEs notoriously struggle with IME (at some point, though they might have grown past it already as well):
1) Trusting their own judgment to the point of steamrolling others
2) Projecting how they are/would be onto others in order to understand them, rather than taking into account the individual