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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Yes, @Bethany. I don't go on "dates" with non-ESI types unless they understand that I'm not there to date them, but rather to just enjoy their company. And Yes, I like a lot of the women I go out with. There's a LOT of chemistry between us, but I'm not living my life like an ignorant animal anymore.
Have you seen Zootopia? Its an LIE-ESI (fox and bunny) movie, but Giselle is IEI and the tigers are SLE-Se and the Water Buffalo is SLE-Ti.
I see, I see. You want to be a clever fox ;) Fox and the Hound was another good movie too, my SEE brother liked that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Hm I've only really started taking dating seriously in the last few months. If I liked someone, I'd find it hard not to give it a go. I mean if it felt right.
Glad you have some nice dates :p
Hmm, finding the exhilarating prize of girlfriend frosties seems tough and risky, like a lot of girls may look nice, but deep at core, are just as plain or without extremities as a used carpet, unlike that diamond millennium banner of restored purity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabrina Lugia
Woah dude yeah I read that manga. Awesome manga btw. I read it ages ago so I don't remember fully though. Yeah the lead seemed ILI or some jaded Alpha NT, but the girl seemed SEI to me somehow. Are you watching the anime adaptation this season?Quote:
Originally Posted by End
Yes I am and I am liking it. As for why Yuzuki is an SEE, well, I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't read the manga but it's how she interacts with Tamahiko in most all ways and how/why she falls for him as hard and completely as she does. Spelling it out results in major spoilers but as you have read that manga do remember that type dynamics do and always will be run through cultural filters. The story is set in 1920's Japan. That matters and the author did their research quite thoroughly in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
Then, the final nail in the coffin and why she was an SEE in my book, well, there's how she went about solving a major problem her family was having. Pure SEE move I fully get and boy oh boy did she utterly luck out lottery odds style for going that route. I am glad the author chose to reward her purity of heart by landing her with her dual that, while broken, wasn't lost and was rehabilitated by her presence in his life.
Today I went on a date with a girl I met on the internet. She looked chubby in her profile pic so I wasn't expecting much but actually she was really cute and in shape. From my interactions with her online, her profile pic and her ample use of emojis I typed her as ESE. But upon further inspection I'm suspecting she may be SEI-Fe. The last time I was my usual lecherous ILE self in a first date it backfired, so I decided to go for a more "gentleman" attitude like LII. Anyways she suggested I take her to my place so she could "give me a massage" and I declined because I am mega retarded and took the gentleman act too far and also because I still live with my mom. Now she won't reply to my texts anymore. Wut do? :confused:
Get a time machine or find a new SEI-Fe. Either way try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
Instructions unclear. Got dick stuck in time machineQuote:
Originally Posted by Baqer
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
In this order,
1.) Stop living with your mom, otherwise known as “Get your own place.”
2.) Keep dating.
This last female may or may not be lost to you, but you need to keep trying. Without a woman in their lives, male NT’s tend to look bizarre and scarily eccentric, and ILEs are the worst.
Single LIIs simply vanish from society, ILIs get into guns and paranoia, and LIEs descend into depression and inaction, but ILEs end up living alone in a trailer on the edge of town, repairing typewriters or some equally eccentric and unprofitable way of making the rent payment.
So get that female Dual.
*EDIT*
I am by no means an expert on Alpha SF females, but I’ve had a lot of experience dating and just talking to people, and my impression of Alpha SF women (which is probably wrong in detail but is just my impression) is that they are social, sensing feelers in an NT world and hence are driven to form stable relationships but have been told by society that they suck at everything. This makes them want to connect but sensitive to criticism and rejection.
So, your first priority has to be to accept and like them, and not
1. ignore them.
2. reject them in the slightest way.
3. Try to tell them that you are really a super-genius and they aren’t very smart and the fact that you’re living with your mom is just your way of keeping your true identity secret from the Galactic Overlords who will need to eliminate YOU if they are ever going to conquer Earth.
4. Criticize them IN ANY WAY because you’re feeling insecure that day and they don’t fight back, they just leave.
5. Fail to tell them that you like them in a truthful way, because they can tell what you really mean better than you, yourself, know. So don’t lie.
Anyway, good luck. Dating gets easier with practice and as we become less defensive and more fun to be around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Yet more confirmation of my theories. This is typical female thinking (in a good way) mixed with bad attachment. Like seeks like (i.e. the broken seek the broken) so the dudes you're meeting really are trying to get you to let them fuck you ASAP. This is what dudes with bad attachment go for because broken dudes see sex as an expression of acceptance and respect as well as fulfilling a physical need (dudes need sex, simple as). They are desperate for this but, like with most everything relating to bad attachment, they've gotten very good at lying to themselves and others as well as seeking out ways to get their needs met in all the wrong ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna Lovegood
I've posted one of these vids elsewhere but it's relevant so I'll post it again. The second one is also relevant. Especially for the ladies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghxfMtIyDbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE3k3FX3Nr0
Forget her. That's the only thing you can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
She seemed to only want the banana.....Not a bad thing if you too wish to have made a wonderful banana bread! (bad puns I know....) Forget her and find another wonderful girl that is a better match! Keep putting yourself out there buddy boy!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
I've done this before.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
I went to a party about four years ago and ended up talking to this woman for an hour or two in an upstairs bedroom. She said she was a massage therapist and she’d love to give me a massage sometime. I was flattered but she was SLE and so I told her thanks, but massages really do nothing for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great
I am not (usually) mega-retarded, but I am Si-PoLR and not desperate. :)
This was before I learned of socionics. She was also SLE. I kinda regret not massaging her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I’m always surprised at how good I feel about myself, and the world in general, after having spent a few hours, even platonically, with a Dual.
I know an ESI who dated an SLE for a while. It didn’t turn out well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great
Sometimes, the One Who Got Away should have gotten away. :)
And even though SLE females are Aggressors to my Victim, I’ve never been sexually attracted to one.
This is great advice, thanks Adam :content: Although it's not possible for me to stop living with mum because rent is too expensive for both of us. Might take me a few years until I can get a job that pays enough to support her while I get my own place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
It sounds a bit dramatic coming from an sx-first but as another sx-first I can relate very much. Loneliness drives me nuts and although I don't think relationships are the solution to all my problems, I do feel more energetic and "purpose" in life when I am with someone.
I guess I'll try to be more honest with SEI from now on. I think I am accepting enough, but I am afraid of not being accepted so I end up putting an act without realizing...
By the way, she talked to me again and now we're gonna meet again next weekend lol. By sheer number of smiley and lovey emojis I guess she isn't upset after all. All's well that ends well. :shrug:
I generally agree with your advice and much of your perspectives @Adam Strange, but here I'm going to have to disagree with you with a slight degree of vehemence. I'd invert your initial advice. That is, I'd put "keep dating" first and "getting your own place" second. With a caveat that getting one's "own place" is a matter of perspective and from mine you can have it for peanuts. Side note: I've almost accumulated enough of those to get mine going and am about to start dating seriously (I.e. Dual/Wife seeking) for once in my life. Still betting on the assertive SEE tomboy loving bully end because my :Ni: tells me that's my fate. Again, not my "perfect" end but an end I can live with and accept. Never let the perfect become the enemy of the good after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
You are right about ILI's like me, guns and paranoia is the game plan if we think we're utterly fucked and never land a dual in our social circles. I lucked out and got my SEE bro but that's a rabbit hole I'd rather pursue elsewhere.
There is a sliver of truth to be found in that mindset however. Minimalist living executed to a perfection only an introvert with :Te: is capable of that is fully mobile in all the ways that'd matter is a thing you can and should do if able and you can make it work no matter how fucked up your finances are relatively speaking once you've "primed the pump" as it were. That is, once you've acquired the basic level of money/resources to make the relevant purchases you're a free man who can potentially be free of any obligations others try to force upon you as you have hacked the system. Any Gamma worth their status as one knows of the concept of "Fuck You" money. Well, turns out it's way, way, easier to get to that zenith of achievement than ya think!
The book (whose author is the IRL version of "The Dude" in the looks department) that spelled that out for me was "Vanabode: Travel and Live Forever on 20$ a Day". A properly constructed Vanabode is a place of one's own I'd argue. Fully mobile. Easily attainable (relatively speaking). And will keep you alive for peanuts a day once attained. A bit of gas in the winter, a shady parking spot in the summer, and just living/grocery shopping in a low cost of living area like rural America. 20-30 bucks or so a day once all the initial purchases have been made.
As for that last line, well, attachment. All types get less defensive and more fun to be around in proportion to how well they have resolved their attachment issues. To give a recent example of some random thought I had. Assume the existence of a naive SEE who lacks most any attachment issues somehow. She will come up with a "great" solution to a problem, but she will also utterly fail to realize both how/why that solution works so well and how/why it was/is also suicidality reckless when executed as a solo entity (i.e. by themselves).
Poor dumb girl is living in an ideal world where good men rebuke her and bad men try to take advantage of her so obviously it hurts. However, she somehow gets that and ends up standing up several PUA's and other desperate victim types who were all to ready to have an ONS with her. Her filter is accurate, but it is also putting her own chastity and life in danger because of how she's just brute forcing a solution to a problem far more nuanced than she's likely to consider.
The issues are mirrored as it were. Male NT's can get rather creepy and eccentric if they fail to meet their dual. What about the Female SF's? I can imagine a great deal of male repelling crazy that could potentially emanate from them. A crazy that is only amplified in the most tragic sense by attachment issues...
@The Banana King, my advice was tailored for you (ILE). You really need your own place, and the sooner you can get it, the better for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
I’m glad she came back. To be honest, I thought there was a good possibility of that.
Also, I’d take it slow if I were you, but not glacially slow. Some women hide the “crazy” pretty well and it can take some time to see it, but everything happens at a certain pace, and if you delay too long, you will miss your flight.
Maybe the best thing to come out of this so far is that you realize that you have to be yourself. A true Dual NEEDS you to be yourself, because your being anyone else only makes you worse.
Good luck!
@Adam StrangeQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
For Alpha SF’s coming from their conflicting quadra….this is really solid advice. You know your conflictor much better then their own dual lmao!
But in all seriousness, I agree with it. Especially about the criticism aspect. That and knowing what they mean behind their words generally….relationship skills come in handy in this aspect.
Anyways….always love your input!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDucki
Thanks, @MissDucki. You've taught me a lot. :)
Honestly, I've worked with an ILE and an SEI for almost ten years, but it was the candid conversations on this forum that taught me the most.
When I was in my twenties, I had no experience with women and had Gamma NT sensibilities, which basically means I was closer to being a kitchen timer than I was to being a human.
But I really wanted to have sex with a woman. Preferably with lots of women, so I approached women with that goal uppermost in mind.
The surprising thing was, I actually started getting laid. The unsurprising thing was, the women who were sleeping with me were all crazier or more destructive than I was.
I mentioned it in my reply to @Adam Strange but have you and your mom considered the benefits of hardcore minimalist living? Assuming she's otherwise healthy and able to take care of herself (e.g. she can drive a car herself at least during the day and is able to walk around without too much aid) she can execute on getting a Vanabode for herself and likely be quite happy with that circumstance.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
Hell, you can get one too and travel about as a pair taking care of each other without that damnable rent payment to worry about. Sell off the superfluous shit you "own" (protip: you don't actually own most of what you think you do or at least, you don't own the "big" items you think you do like, say, land or a house), cash in anything that you can that isn't Precious Metals (because the shit's about to hit the fan and lemme tell ya you'll want every ounce you can muster to barter with), acquire a PO box/negotiate a deal with a family member/close friend who has a street address/learn how "general delivery" works (if you're a US citizen who lives in the US) so you can still get snail mail and order shit off the net, and then tell your landlord the magic words every Gamma/Real American dreams of telling anyone who thought they had absolute control over them as you start up the van and drive off into the sunset with a mirth matched only by the most pure and innocent of children as they play with their favorite toy. Fuck You!
Hell, random thought, perhaps the ideal future will consist of extended families who went this route forming "caravans" and the like. Fun idea :).
Getting more specific than this (and thus further customizing a solution to your given problems) requires me to ask you very personal questions that I won't ask in public. I've learned about tact (and how I tend to lack it) the hard way.
And then the last bit I always mention nowadays. If you have attachment issues (and you and your potential wife likely do), fix em'. If not for yourself, than for her. She wants/needs a man who is capable of truly bonding with and providing her with emotional intimacy. Women of all types crave that (hell, men do as well let's be honest). The worst examples of any type are that because they're broken to the point of being lost in that regard. Far as I can tell you aren't, I ain't, and most everyone here isn't as well.
Many are demonically obsessed, but the outright possessed and subjugated don't seem to be a major issue here. Yet another aside but a positive one regardless.
Hahaha! Exactly as my theories predicted! Yet only now do I get exactly why and now actually pity both ends of that tragic equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Again, attachment, like seeks like, and how/why women "use" it and men "seek" it and how that really fucks them up and sets up a viscous cycle everyone thinks they can never escape from once they've been caught up in the spiral. The longer they've been in that spiral the deeper their despair. After all, if you've been a slut/manwhore for 20+ years how would/could any "Good" partner ever accept/love you?
I guess I was lucky in regards to my given faith. I don't know about other faiths, but I was raised as a Christian and Christianity teaches that no sin is beyond God's ability to forgive. Even if it was on your deathbed, if you really, truly repent of your sins he will accept that and allow you into paradise. For men it is impossible, but in God all is possible...
Also, spot on in regards to Male NT's becoming what amounts to robots if someone/something doesn't interfere. Code/Keyboard Monkeys are male NT's by and large. It's an easy role to fall into if the pay is good enough. Difference is Gamma NT's are likely to be deliberately exploiting their employer and/or sabotaging said employer's attempts to get them to train their replacements whereas Alpha NT's might not catch on or, if they do, do an even better job at sabotage than the Gammas. I will always give credit where it's due and if some Alpha alpha fucks over the PTB far better than I could I have only one response. A heartfelt thank you and a salute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by End
Well, @End, I guess I could be called a man-whore during that time. I went through quite a number of women. However, I eventually reached a point of absolute despair and stopped dating altogether. I figured that I just wasn't cut out to be married or something. I stopped looking for women and stopped trying to be someone I wasn't and stopped trying to do anything, for that matter, which didn't bring me, or the people I cared about, personal happiness. I stopped looking at women as potential bed-partners and started looking at them as people.
Weirdly enough, after a little over a year of this, I ran into a woman who, a year after we met, became my wife.
I think that's why the movie Groundhog Day has always resonated with me. Plus, the heroine of that movie is an SLI, just like my ex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0M6Rh9qpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KDAERuf1pY
Once more, another confirmation of my theories. This time in a positive light. If she isn't an ESI what type is she? Like I've said elsewhere "duality" is just icing on the cake. The real "cake" is meeting someone who lacks/is willing and desiring to work through attachment issues who has the patience to endure the episodes/explosions their partner will inflict upon them in the earnest and good faith that they will open up to them in time and learn that they are in fact loveable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Again, it's an ILI/SEE romance story but "Taisho Otome" depicts a perfect example (that was also, double luckily for them both, a dual romance story) of a patient partner helping a broken partner to work through their attachment issues and accept their love.
I don't really date much unless I already have an established relationship. Otherwise it's just really stressful and feels like I'm supposed to be performing or conforming to someone I don't know, which isn't what dates are about in my opinion.
Anyways, the last date I had was pre-pandemic. I was seeing an old ILI flame. Technically wasn't a date, we weren't calling it that, but it may as well have been. I went bowling with my ILI-H ex and then we went to Target and mocked the empty culture behind a bunch of objects that people waste their money on. It was endearing. The date before that, we went to see Hereditary but it was only us in the theater, so we had a good time predicting outcomes, looking at symbolism, and also cracking jokes about the characters MST3K style before looking at the movie as a whole. It was also quite sweet.
It was getting quite serious even though these dates weren't called dates. He wanted me to meet his family, and for our families to meet. So he still cares, too.
I guess he was the only one I've ever been truly interested in. He's an old flame but I don't think I'd ever go back to it. Or maybe that's a lie. But really, I'm just not interested in gushy romance, and see it all as pointless emotional display. Not that he was particularly romantic though, which was a quality I liked. The dates weren't very romantic but they were the best I've ever been on, because I felt connected to someone else on a very deep level. Maybe that's romance, even if the dates themselves weren't particularly romantic. Maybeeeee.
As for romance. My highschool sweetheart was LSI, and he was very romantic. He was always buying pointless gifts, giving kisses, embracing me, and even talking about sweet nothings. But it just grossed me out, how he would put everything on display and treat it like some trophy. I get the reasoning behind it, but it's not for me. He's going to be a great husband/boyfriend for someone else, but he's really not for me.
Textbook attachment issues on your part. You feel like you have to perform or conform to others because you subconsciously think you need to somehow earn their approval over already being worthy of it and thus can get into the more fundamental, enduring, and quite frankly important aspects of the relationship. I keep bringing this us up because it is especially relevant here. Love and dating is going to be the most painfully apparent place this will pop up. You quite simply won't be able to find yourself a good partner if you don't fix your attachment. Or at least know what it is, how it works/manifests, and how you can acknowledge and adapt to it but that will also set you inexorably towards fixing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vex
As for that old flame of yours it sounds like you typed him correctly. Don't even get me started on the desolate wasteland we call "popular" culture here in the West. All flash, no substance, no deeper meaning beyond some shallow trend or some show of ephemeral status. Don't ask questions, just consume product, and then get exited for more/next product. Words fail to adequately express my contempt and I could gleefully mock pointless consumerist trinkets all day.
Your attitude towards romance is also very Gamma. Gushy romance is indeed pointless. What truly matters is intimacy and connection. If you have that, you have romance, period. That can mean a passionate kiss or a sexual encounter, but it could also be a simple moment together in the store where your eyes met and something was just "understood" between you without words or simply holding hands as you walked around discussing whatever. Don't let some asshole in Hollywood or on TV tell you what "romance" is. Especially because they have both a financial and ideological motivation to lead you astray on that front.
I'm reposting this from the "thoughts on ESI-LIE Duality" thread, because it also relates to my misadventures in dating.
I've been thinking about my relationships with ESI Duals recently. I know at least 19 ESIs; 8 females and 11 males. Some of those males are very good friends, and some are acquaintances. Some of the women I have dated with serious intentions, and some are just women whom I know.
One of my early experiences with a male ESI friend somehow went wrong and we didn't talk for many years, and then I ran into him in a Kroger store and it was like we were still best buddies.
He seems somehow to be similar to the female ESI that I was dating recently. We started getting close, then she pulled back and I said "Call me when you want to go out again" and she hasn't called me.
On the other hand, I have a male and a female ESI in my life right now who are good friends and I don't see that ever changing.
What the hell is the difference? Is it something I might be able to see before I invest a couple years in a relationship? I think that other people might be able to tell the difference right away, but for some reason, I can't.
The problem, for certain, isn't related to Duality, because that part of the equation is good in all cases.
Meh I've been hesitant to share my experiences because I know how cut-throat people are and whatever I say can and will be used against me in the court of Te or Fe - but I will just say I've had a horrible blind date before. I can't believe I ever agreed to going on a blind date- but I was young and stupid. And I was just lonely because I knew my dad was going to die. I wasn't looking for a replacement 'daddy' though- it wasn't like that at all lol the guy I dated was very boyish not daddy-ish but anyway we clashed and it was awkward. He also insulted me and tried to play it off as a joke and was basically a rude asshole. And he wore these ridiculously bright sneakers that looked so bad and 'gay' in the bad way lol.
Because I am so naturally sensitive and a feeler type and my brain is so narcissitically introverted I have to sniff a person out first for a long time before I agree to meet them and so far everybody I've met I haven't liked 'in that way'. Because if I'm not super cautious and careful and I say 'to hell with it let's give it a chance' and I get burned I might take a longer healing period than other people and might be harder for me to 'just get over it' idk. It's not always their fault of course, I think I'm just incapable of loving a 'real person' and I can only love a fantasy projection of somebody or an idealized version of somebody which of course is going to collapse because it's not real. I feel everybody not-so-secretly hates me and I just not-so-secretly hate them too. I love giving people RPG classes but I'm not sure I can love the real Te person lol. Or I might confuse just a really good friend for something more... I doubt it will ever happen to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjamXCPyKrQ
You saw this one coming a mile away but I'll say it because the instant I read this you just crystalized a ton of my thoughts into a coherent structure. Like a video game puzzle you've been spending hours trying to figure out while stubbornly refusing to look it up on the net because damnit you're so fucking close and you ain't about to bitch out now and then suddenly the solution hits you and you are both ecstatic you've solved it yet also cursing yourself for not seeing the solution sooner because it was so fucking simple!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Yeah, it's attachment issues and I can tell you I've felt the exact same way. Looking back on it all I literally lost my virginity to an SEE (or was she an LSI, it really is a coin flip thinking back) in an ONS that, had I knew then what I know now I'd probably be happily married to her with the big family I dream of (and not have engaged in an ONS) as I would have seen that she was both my dual and her issues weren't crippling (i.e. she wasn't "lost" at the time). I could have put in the effort and been happy with her. Yet sadly that time has now passed and she has now become one of the lost. This is a regret I'll now carry with me forever. I failed to save a soul I obviously could have had I possessed/analyzed more pertinent data. I guess this is why I'm now so obsessed with gathering data with pretty much every post. That loss/failure haunts me to this day. I needed more data and I lacked it at a critical moment years ago and the outcome of that was disastrous.
I've said it time and again after acquiring this final piece of the puzzle I've spent the last 20 years figuring out. It really does all come down to attachment. Duality won't fix a subconscious belief on either end that you're fundamentally an unlovable piece of shit and even if conflictors hate each other's guts theoretically the relationship they'll have as two individuals who have "secure" attachment styles will still be better than all the others they could have if the other partner isn't also possessing that same style. An ESE with an ILI who both have secure attachment styles will do a better job at being a good couple than an LII/ESE pair who has major attachment issues. It won't be anything resembling ideal conditions but at least they'll try to work it out and they both know for sure that the other person truly loves them and won't ever abandon them...
Just a little update:
I might’ve met a dual. All this time!
It’s one of my colleagues, that one pilot that I thought he was an SLI (his Te is damn good, maybe because he’s quite mature? He’s 15 years older than me) but then as we get closer I realised he’s dom-Fi afterall.
Ah. I hate the fact that when I FINALLY like an ESI, turns out he’s way older than me.
Anyway.
He lives in a different city, but because of work he has to come to my city every month or so, and every time he’s in town we always meet at work, hangout at the cafes, tell each other stories keeping up to date with life lol.
It’s been nearly a year hahah we’re becoming best friends now.
Like everyone says, it just feels good when you’re around your dual.
Like you’re just being yourself but he admires that.
Fifteen years can be long or short.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a Heaven in a wild flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
I've been browsing the Match.com website this morning and I discovered that I'm turned on by really slender women. Nice to know that that's a thing, I guess.
I also found a gorgeous picture of a woman who looks like an ESI in her one picture. Definitely resting bitch face. In her profile, she says:
1. If I could eat only one meal for the rest of my life, it would be a steak cooked on the grill with salad with blue cheese dressing. <= I'm a vegetarian.
2. I've never been arrested. <= I've been arrested more times than I remember.
3. Never have I ever voted for a Democrat. <= She lives in Grosse Pointe, MI. Yes, that Grosse Pointe. Same as the movie. I'm never voting for a Republican again.
She's ESI and we're superficial opposites. Perfect, right?
No.
That ESI face, though! So easy on the eyes. Damn it, dating is hard.
I remember that you said somewhere that you’re so attractive and charming with all of this butterfly zig zag that you are put into an aquarium of all tasting views.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett
I can't imagine dating like that. Adam!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I had my absolute best dating experience when I went into it with the expectation that nothing would come out of it. He was too beautiful, too nice, too smart, too talented, etc. It wasn't even a "he is too good for me" issue, but more of a "yeah no, that would be too good to be true." It was the best date of my life .
Quote:
Originally Posted by KardashevBunny
You might have inferred that, but I didn't say it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
I'm not dating her, @Kim, I'm just searching the Match database for locals and I'm filtering at this point. And no, I don't have much in the way of expectations anymore.
I initially thought that finding a compatible Dual who wants what I want would be easy, but it's not easy. It's really hard.
My intention was to target Scarlet with that idea, but maybe Adam is also sprite like and engaging.
My point is that looking for only duals seems like dating madness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
Yes, lots of people feel that way. I think I prefer starting from a place which, I think, is more likely to succeed down the road.
I could, of course, be wrong about this. I've simply found that all my relationships with every other type, regardless of their health or social compatibility, proceed exactly the way that Socionics predicts. I'm taking a leap of faith that Duality will be the same. Provided, of course that that particular Dual is healthy and socially compatible.
For years, I tried to get my SLI-Te son to date, to absolutely no avail. Maybe he goes out with women when he's hanging with his many buddies, IDK, but I haven't met any of them, and he did not like his IEE-Ne aunt all that much.
Then I hired a bookkeeper who is an IEE-Fi, and she recently got divorced from her ILE husband. My son went over to her house to help her move to a cheaper place, and now he's spending every spare minute over there. They are 15-20 years apart in age, but they seem to be compatible anyway.
Strange, eh?
Post script: I told him that, now that he's interacted with a compatible Dual, he just needs to find one who is younger. He said, Uh, um, er.
So I officially gave up looking for a dual a while ago. During the pandemic I did ‘look’ a little bit. Also I just didn’t feel quite ready to date so seemed harmless to keep a look out, out of curiosity. I think I can spot them sometimes but I’m not sure how many cute Estps would still be single at my age. Sometimes I match with them ‘accidentally’..but I end up not liking them. They sometimes appear cuter than they actually are and are quite good at chatting and hooking you’re interested.
I have an SEI male friend I’m getting to know and he seems like he could be a nice person to date. However I’m keeping my eye out for SEEs, ILEs, maybe SLIs. I’m trying to use Bumble more than Hinge as with hinge you have to ‘send a like’ and I think I end up liking people who aren’t cute just for the sake of liking someone. I worry a bit with SEEs that I might be attracted to the wrong subtype..but hopefully you’d be able to tell if the energy was right after a few dates.
Soz if I sound shallow. I think I mean ‘cute’ as in ‘my type of cute’.
Why? Superego is horrible. Why not IEIs and LSIs. Those should be good matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
hey@Tallmo are you talking from experience? I knew a young ILI/SEI couple that had a bad break up. But I also know an ILI/SEI couple in their 40s and are getting married. I think superego can be fine if you find a good one. But I think it can be hard to find a good one, also hard to get used to them. (I trust my instincts to spot a bad one..) However, I think it can be a long lasting relationship. The ST/NF difference would be complimentary and the P/P similarity just feels right to me.
I’ve never really been attracted to LSIs. It feels like there is too much of a disconnect…IEI could be ok but I don’t know if I want someone the same as me, because I kinda hate my brain lol. Not interested in ILI because I have too many insecurities and I need a lot more understanding than they can give. SEE/ILE may beat SEI because I think the bond might feel stronger because of being more different. But ‘S’ appeals more than ‘N’ so SEI could be fine over an ILE :) I think SEI/SLI are most likely to go for me..maybe SEEs too.
However..maybe…it is easier to find a ‘good’ LSI/IEI than it is to find a good version of the others? Not sure.
Edit: @Tallmo Also I don’t know how to explain this but I often think of a type in relation to one of its benefit types, specifically thinker with feeler. So in my mind LII and IEI have a link, LSI and SEI have a link..So although I like and respect LSIs, I think in practical terms I am more suited to an SEI. Similarly I’d be more suited to an IEI than an LII. I’ve read a lot of Rebel’s posts and I agree with him that ITR can be sorted into a hierarchy of suitability/strength. It’s not even necessarily a hierarchy, more of a map showing how each ITR links to each other. The hierarchy/ map makes sense to me, if you apply some common sense on top of it (conflict partner and contrary are not likely to be long-lasting relationships even if they can technically benefit from each other more than other ITR). I also saw a video where DarkAngelFireWolf69 stated that after duality and semi-duality he doesn’t know what comes next. He said maybe activity. I also find it really interesting that he seems to dislike kindred quite a bit. I should re-read though.
Also, in my early days of learning about socionics I remember being confused about if activity or identical seemed better. And also why they seemed so inferior to duality. It’s because they’re the same in terms of quality..but have much less potential to duality, generally speaking. Like I said before though, it could be that with activity/identical it could be a little easier to find a good one, than other types. I think I’d be happier raising a kid with an SEI than an LSI. Neither relationship might last or either might last but I think I’d find the experience of raising a kid more natural with an SEI. I would trust the opinions of an SEI more easily and I think it’d be easier to find common ground/ motivate each other.
@Bethany, dating is hard, for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
I've seen IEIs with ILEs (three couples, all divorced now), with LSE's (three couples, two divorces, one miserable), with SLEs (briefly. The ones I've seen appear to be brief affairs), and with other IEIs (one couple divorced, one couple still dating).
Oops. I forgot one couple. IEI and SLE. Met at a HS reunion and have been inseparable since then. Together maybe ten years? My IEI cousin says they are the "Perfect couple".
Hang in there. It'll happen.
Just so you don't fall into despair, I know an IEI therapist who seems to be happily married, but I don't know his wife's type.
Post Script:
I once was talking to an SLI whom I work with and he was, quite out of character, criticizing a woman he'd just bought lunch from. He normally never criticizes anyone, but he was going on and on about how stupid she was. It took me a minute to figure out that he was talking about the IEI that I was, unbeknownst to him, dating.
Aw @Adam Strange thanks. It would be nice to meet someone to have a kid with. Don’t have to be together forever but it would be good to meet someone who would be a good father/ supportive even if you split. Haha at the SLI. My new female colleague SLI is lovely. She’s been very caring towards me, it’s really nice haha. My LIE colleague (female) gave my a hug the other day too…:)
Well, I learned something today.
I was browsing Match.com and came across a woman who is so SEE she could be a poster-girl for the type. She looked like Harley Quinn (she even had a picture of herself in Harley Quinn-type clown makeup) and she had pictures of her little girl and wrote a long story about how she was looking for a guy who would ignore her (ILI, anyone?) because she's busy all the time but she promises to answer EVERY PERSON who reads all the way through her wall-of-text self-description. She also wrote about how she's not been able to find a guy since her divorce who is worth dating.
Naturally, me being an idiot, I messaged her and suggested that she look at guys who look like ILI Topher Grace.
She messaged me back and said she preferred guys who look like the Artist in Hannah and her Sisters (possibly Max Von Sydow, INTJ). She also said that I couldn't have read her profile, because she's an introvert and she said she thinks I'm writing to every woman out there hoping to get one to respond.
FML. Try to do something nice for a person, and it goes straight off the rails.
To be honest, I should have kept my opinions to myself, but her profile moved me and I felt sorry for her inability to find a good man.
I'm not doing that again. Fuck 'em.
I wrote back and told her to just ignore my post. Sorry for trying to help.
There is one good thing that came out of the exchange. She was basically telling me that I didn't have any idea who she was. Every ESI that I've ever met tells me this, usually right away. I didn't know that this extended to SEEs, but now I think it has to do with being an Se-dom and having weak Ni.
Yeah. Just because YOU can't intuit other people's thoughts, doesn't mean that other people can't read yours.
OK, I'm done.
SEEs are the hottest. I would sacrifice my house to get trampled and yelled at by a hot SEE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon
Yes, she was pretty hot. SEEs are my Activity partner, and I'd be happy to do stuff with her, but I can do without the flighty crazy. That's a job for @End.
You mentioned me here and yet you didn't harp on my newest issue on this front? The one I literally spent 20 years trying to find and finally found it? You have no idea who she is? Well yeah, of course you don't. Because she is not and has not actually shown you who she truly is because she's literally deathly afraid of you rejecting her if she does!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Like I keep saying, the solution to pretty much all of our problems in regards to interpersonal relationships is both so simple/easy it hurts and yet also a demonstration of Herculean willpower and/or of faith on par with the greatest martyrs. To overcome your attachment issues you must essentially knowingly and directly violate your Self-Preservation instinct and/or trust in Christ.
Take it from an SP first ILI. If I wasn't a Theist I wouldn't have even tried. I needed my faith to even ask my own blood related brother to spend more time with me. I was sure he'd call me a clingy bitch or otherwise reject me. Instead, he was happy I asked him and even asked me to send him my schedule on a regular basis so we could hang out as often as time allowed him.
I'm not adept at this site's multi-quote system beyond doing it for 2-3 posts but if you have kids and you are their father you must both learn how to attach to them healthily and then do exactly that. You owe them that as a parent.
Complication: whatever old flames you conceived them with will start throwing themselves at you in most every way you can imagine if you do that. Fixing your attachment with your children is the fastest and most assured way to tap into the Female sex drive. If she sees them being happy with you for the first time in forever and you keep that up and they, in turn, tell her how wonderful of a dad you're being now...
Yeah, one way ticket to them loving you hard and fast. Not a bad place to be in, but a place you'll have to explain a few of them out of. Monogamy is monogamy and those ladies will insist on you being their husband till death do you part. Don't get too fixated on duality. Healthy attachment can make other relationships feel satisfying. Well, except for conflictors. I know an ESE and while I get why my LII cousin/best buddy adores her there's good reason we have our conversations well outside her hearing radius :).
I agree but within limits. A "Lost" SEE will just trample you with the utmost glee without any reciprocation of your feelings. Being trampled and yelled at is great if and only if they're doing it from a perspective/angle/intention of expressing love and respect (and the meeting of deep seated needs). The truly loving/complete SEE understands that their ideal partner doesn't mind at all if they drag them around or rough them up a bit but limits exist and they ought not go beyond them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon
If everyone else wants examples of this kind of dynamic in action I'd recommend "Taisho Otome Otogibanashi" and "Ijiranaide Nagatoro-san". The former is when an "nice" SEE enters into an ILI's life and heals his soul just by existing and believing in him. The latter is when your "ideal girl" enters into it. Rude, crude, hateful, and yet as time goes on she gets softer and softer...
There must be something about the Thanksgiving holiday season, because my ex-wife and two ex-GFs texted me this week. All are still unattached.
I’ll tell you what makes me cry.
There are people that I could help, but I don’t want to.
Not that.
But there are people that I want to help, but can’t.
That’s what.
Went on a date with another bi girl last night (not the same as the last one), and my gosh she sure was obsessed with the fact that I was a foreigner lol
We met on Tinder like a few months ago and traded contact info on some other accounts, but didn't talk much after that. She was 19 when we matched, so it's not like we could've gone out for drinks or anything anyways. I guess she just turned 20 (legal drinking age in Japan) in October though, and "randomly" came to my town for the weekend yesterday. She texted me to ask if I had any good recommendations for bars in the area, so I started listing a few before asking what she was doing in the area, and when she said she came by herself I took the hint and asked if she wanted me to show her around the city. She seemed really excited about this, so we met up and hung out for the night.
The first place I took her to was this bar called "Karma" which primarily serves American military. It's got a really cool atmosphere; dark, neon lights, psychedelic art, hookahs, eclectic music, and is usually tended by a young half-Japanese half-American guy and a middle-aged Japanese woman with really high English ability. It was pretty full of USAF and JSDF with their dates, and the norm there was very much bilingualism. I asked her in Japanese if she liked sweet or bitter stuff, and she said sweet, so then I turned to the half-Japanese guy and asked him in English if he could mix us something sweet in the hookah (it's just like a flavoured vape - there's no fun stuff in it), and this girl thought this was the coolest thing ever. Apparently she really loves how English sounds and she'd never gone out with a foreigner before last night, so this was like, a lot for her. I can't remember the last time I saw someone having that much fun lol
We got along pretty well, went to karaoke as well as three different bars, and eventually ran into one of my coworkers who joined us for part of the night. It was a lot of fun. It seemed a little like she wanted me to come back to her hotel with her, but I felt weird about that given how drunk we were and how that was our first time hanging out. She was very sweet and fun (I suspect her to maybe be SEI or ESE), and I'd definitely go out with her again, but my only reservation is that she seems to just wanna have fun and is enamored with the idea of having a foreign boyfriend. Nothing wrong with that at all, but as much fun as I had, I'm not really looking to be someone's gaijin toy and Instagram model (she posted nine videos of me to her stories)
I'll let y'all know how it goes if we hang out again. She's very cute and a lot of fun to be around, but I don't feel super confident that she's into me for reasons other than what I am. All she talked about was how great it is that I'm a white American English teacher who can speak Japanese well. Felt a little shallow, but she's also still in college, so I'm not sure what I expected
@AWellArmedCat, she wants to use you.
Probably to find out if the rumors about Foreigners are true, but also to expand her…….world.
You should go with the flow. Having regrets is no good.
I’m still kicking myself for not picking up on Kay Stanley in seventh grade.
I have nothing to report on my dating adventures! But my siblings are both happy in relationships.
Actually false, Im dating school and work. My school relationship is quite toxic atm and work well...hes basically my sugar daddy.
Xenophilia is a thing. I am a xenophile myself. My own race just seems too similar to me, and I can't…it would feel like I was trying to get with my brother or something, there's no genuine attraction. I don't think I've ever openly fangirled like that, though…usually my enthusiasm shows more through the music I listen to in private or something (although I listen to music in many languages anyway). I'm sort of tsundere though, so of course I would hide that shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by AWellArmedCat
What I'm saying is, it was a first date. I don't think it's odd for her to be into surface level things initially, as it takes time to get to know the deeper aspects of someone. Inviting you over on the first date does make her seem more interested in fun than anything, but nothing you have shared here indicates negative motives, imo. Maybe the foreigner thing is just a fantasy she's had for a while, and now she finally has an opportunity. I'd be low-key the same way about someone who was a native speaker/resident of one of my favorite languages/countries if I was still dating and not already settling down with someone (although Greek is also beautiful). I just wouldn't express it openly.
Maybe you could just ask her why she is so thrilled about you being foreign, and see what she says. Determine whether her answer is a good one. Take note if it catches her off guard or she hesitates to think of an answer or anything like that, which may indicate she has to come up with something better than her real reasons.
I mean yeah, I totally get that. There's nothing wrong with having such preferences. It just surprised me that she was already dtf seemingly based off that alone. I'm only really interested in being so casual with guys - especially if they're older than me. I think because homosexuality is already sorta "outside" of the mainstream culture I don't feel much social pressure to make the relationship anything serious, and them being older makes it feel more like they're leading so it's not "on me" anyways. With a girl who's younger than me though I feel very conscious of my position. Japanese people in more rural areas (like the north where I am) can tend to look askance at foreign guys who date Japanese girls since they're expecting that we're just interested in "using" them then going back to our countriesQuote:
Originally Posted by Noir
Tsunderes are best deres :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir
She mentioned her father being rather cold and her mother being afraid of foreigners, so I'm a little worried I might be just a way for her to rebel/assert herself. I've been in that situation before, and I'm not particularly excited about being hated for xenophobic reasons again lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Noir
As I said though, I do like her and think she's very cute. I'll go out with her again, but there's just a couple things I'm unsure about. I'll probably post an update here in awhile. Thanks for the response!
@AWellArmedCat, are you sure she's not SLE?
Because I could easily imagine the female SLE @niffer behaving that way, especially when she was younger.
I just remembered this guy who told me on the first date, "you know that when men hear your ex was black, many won't want to date you, right?" Wisdom imparted. :8*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
My IEE-Fi bookkeeper also dated a black SLI as a first run at dating Duals after her divorce. She said he was great in bed. (I think that Duals tend to say that about each other, because I don't believe there is an absolute standard here.) However, she dropped him because he only dated white women and because he made a big deal out of mis-assigning people's reactions to him from "him being a jerk", to "him being a black guy".
Which is a pretty good reason to drop anybody.
I dated a black girl for a while. She was both pretty and funny. Hmmmm. I hope that's not why many women don't want to date me.......
Because you’re pretty and funny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon
Lol, @mysteryofdungeon. No, I think things go wrong when I open my mouth and say exactly what I'm thinking. ESIs can take that if they have a bit of experience with me, and IEIs have no problem with what I say, but almost everyone else says "OK, I'm out of here."
Men like it when women instead make comments like, “My ex was so good in bed he might as well have been a black guy.” This kind of comment shows both openness and class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon
I like it when women say "That was great!" and I say, "Better than your husband?" and they say "Who?"
It's definitely possible. I've only gone out with her once so I don't have a great handle on her personality yet. The element I got from her the most was definitely Fe though, and she felt alpha to me. She might've been holding back a bit though since I think in Japan especially Se isn't seen as very "ladylike". What I know is that she has valued Fe, and is most probably a sensor. ESE is my placeholder for now since SLE requires more justifications. I had an SLE girlfriend in like sophomore year of high school and she was significantly more assertive right off the bat and a little ADHDQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I once dated this So-first ESI, and while I really, really liked her and we agreed on a direction (house in a neighborhood with good schools for kids), we didn’t agree on how we would live. She wanted politics and lots of people, and I interact with that crowd as little as possible.
So I stopped seeing her.
A month or two later, I saw her heading to lunch with a guy who resembled me in the sense that he was much older than her, but was obviously (to me) not an LIE.
That must not have worked, because I talked to her six months later when we met by accident and she was still single.
Throughout all our dates, she was cautious and remote and I was confident and familiar. Well, we’re Duals, right? Dualization will happen if you just keep at it for a while.
I think she must have felt something, too, because she tried again with a guy who she thought was similar to me. But she went for the wrong trait.
This got me thinking about Duality and confidence and how being with someone who is automatically confident about the relationship must remind a person of the way they feel when they are in the security of their family.
Assuming they liked their family, it must be tremendously seductive.
I didn't really like my family, it was more like that line from Sleepless in Seattle ... "It was like coming home, only to no home I'd ever known." Sigh. Comfort.
Hi End, I'm a psychology graduate, but I did get attachment theory as part of my tuition. However, it was not at the core of my study, because that already was diagnosing, diagnosing, and more diagnosing... Though like AWellArmedCat said, in developmental psychology it is one of the mainstays, including how it affects the way in which we develop our friendships and romantic relationships later in life.Quote:
Originally Posted by End
I agree with you on the fact that far too much focus is put on medicalizing dysfunctional behaviour. Although here in Europe psychologists are not allowed to prescribe psycho-medication, we do see the lobby force of the big pharmaceuticals growing by the year. Our American colleagues already warned for this. Especially now with the COVID-19 pandemic there is an influx of people with psychological difficulties, but a shortage of psychologists, which makes psycho-medication a cheap, quick, and dirty fix in the eyes of the healthcare insurers.
It worries me, because like you said, it's not an actual solution. It doesn't address the underlying problems, but merely treats the symptoms. It's like giving someone aspirin to treat the headache they get from their brain tumour without actually removing the tumour at all. Every study shows time and time again that psycho-medication requires therapy to work properly, whereas psychotherapy on its own is enough for most people with less intense problems. Most people simply need a listening ear that doesn't judge them to reflect on and work through their problems. When they cannot find this with their family or friends, then that's what psychologists are for. But a pill doesn't listen.
Sleepless In Seattle is such a great movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymaisy
Third time is a pattern; is it me or does this seem to apparently be a LIE thing, because I likewise didn't get too date much until later in university?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett
Also, how are things going between your ESI and you?
At the risk of kicking at an open door, would it be an option to counter-propose to meet up at her place instead, when she proposes going to yours? If you do it smoothly enough, she might not even notice, and if she does ask further questions you simply have to tell her honestly. Nothing is as bad for any relationship as lying, regardless of sociotype.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
Also, I agree with what Adam is saying, your love/dual should love you for who you are. Here on the forum you seem like a nice guy, so I wouldn't worry as much about how you come across, besides good manners ( which I think you already nailed down by default ;^) . Otherwise all the self-consciousness only distracts from getting onto the same wavelength with your love/dual and into the flow together.
Huh so the SLI I met seems keen and I do fancy him, but he is studying hours away so it’d have to be long distance. Unless I don’t know..maybe things could change coz of online learning. And the potential SLE I’m talking to seems nice and cute but he has a really busy job and is slow to reply. Now if a cute nice semi dual came along any time soon what would I do :) Putting yourself out there is fun but confusing. Honestly, think if I could pick, I think I might go for a semi-dual.
Hahaha! Another LIE becoming one of my "fans" as it were? I guess that's how mirror relations work. It's so very nice to see someone else just "get it" from just a slightly different angle. You share the same thoughts and probably even perspectives, but that subtle difference in where that lead you. Interesting. So much so that you essentially can't stop looking at each other and asking more questions. Like observing one's own reflection in a clear pool of water as a child and moving one hand for the mere reason that you want to see what the reflection does :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
The dark dynamic you've observed in psychology flows into the physical realm as well sadly. Big Pharma and Big Food are linked as well. As with psychology the whole damn system is bent towards treating symptoms instead of causes as well, let's be honest, if we treat a cause we cure a patient for life. If we treat a symptom without addressing the underlying cause, well, we create a lifetime customer who forks over the dosh on the regular.
Mammon is real and I can tell you what option he favors and it sure as fuck ain't the one you and others like you signed up for. I wager if you could write or treat yourself out of your job you'd do it. Why? Because you became what you are out of a genuine desire to help/save others from illness and death. I'm right there with you BTW. If my suffering/impoverishment saves a million others the pain I'd do it.
There is already an ultimate expression of this drive. Christ. It is no mistake we feel this way in one form or another. Our nature is also his. We can be like him. We need only but try in earnest.
Yes, ILIs and LIEs seem to grasp each other intuitively, whenever I talk to an ILI there's this magnetic understanding. It explains why I get along so well with my best friend, haha.
Do you mean that Big Pharma and Big Food are in cahoots together, or that how healthy we eat affects our emotional well-being? In Scandinavia they are effectively replacing psycho-medication with probiotics, a healthy dieet, lots and lots of exercise in the sunlight, and psychotherapy. It has even showed able to improve otherwise treatment resistant depression.
And yes, the entirety of medicine is focused on creating lifelong patients. That's for instance why lots of funding goes into blood pressure medication, because it's a chronic condition. On the other hand, this super-effective lung cancer medication that was developed a couple of years ago is marketed for millions of euros, because it's an actual cure, instead of a continuous treatment like chemotherapy. The system is intrinsically broken, that much is clear. The solution is clear too, a coalition of hospitals, patients, and universities developing treatments financed collectively via the government. The real question is how to overcome the lobby forces of those having an interest in retaining the status quo. Politics is the eye of the needle that every solution has to pass through.
Mammon? Cool, I didn't know this term yet, I'm going to tell my Croatian NT friend that one, he's even more socialist than I am. I'm more of a social-democrat à la Scandinavia.
Although I've been raised Catholic, I'm agnostic, because I prefer to refrain from judgements about things I cannot know. I just do what I know is right. That's my personal stance and I respect yours as well. You seem a good person, who has people's well-being at heart. :content:
This feels like quite the cliffhanger you left me in, because this is rather interesting. Care to elaborate with some examples, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by End
Regarding dating, by the way, does anyone have an idea on how to apologize to an ESI, who's feelings one unintentionally hurt? LIEs like myself can be quite clumsy with feelings, after all. https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...smilies/fp.gif
You was raised Catholic? Hahaha. I thought as much. Take it from a practicing member of the faith, they ain't wrong. I've learned that, in spite of my attempts to insist otherwise, that God is real and that Jesus is the Christ. The writings of Saint Thomas Aquinas are a go to in regards to curing anyone of any doubt of that. No Atheist/Agnostic has yet to pen a truly compelling counter argument to the "Summa Theologica" and the points/cases he laid out therein. Rhetoric ain't philosophy and while they've managed the former, well, that ain't philosophy/a true counter argument that meets the same standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
That aside, I am happy you have seen the same things I have from a professional angle. I never got formally trained in psychology or medicine but I can smell a rat and holy hell do those fields reek. If you want another game changer read "Stay Off My Operating Table" by Philip Ovadia. He too smelled a rat and did something about it. The mainstream view of dieting is, like in psychology, meant to give us symptoms to treat with expensive meds over actually curing our issues as well. As would be the will of Mammon. Pay up and never stop paying up. Wealth/Money is the solution and fuck anyone who lacks it!
As an aside you will find that what is "right" always lines up with Chruch doctrine/dogma in the end. If you have not, I'd pursue the works of Archbishop Fulton Sheen. He was both a hardcore dogmatic and yet also diplomatic. Few remember/know that he had a very successful show on mainstream television here in America before the diehard commies fully took over the MSM. He'd never get so much as an interview if someone like him made that pitch for a show nowadays.
That's gonna involve attachment. Like I keep saying, that's the main concern in regards to interpersonal relationships and that goes double for romantic ones. You gotta just fess up and honestly apologize. If she gets that you're being honest and earnestly seeking to connect with her she'll understand and actually thank you for that. You're likely the first person she's met to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Now, if she's broken you're gonna find out pretty quick as that honest and earnest apology won't be enough for her. Not really. She might put up a front for a second or two but that's just the :Se: impulse to bully their lover a bit. We ain't called "victims" for nothing. Us liking it and not fighting against it is likewise a point of attraction from their end. Provided, of course, that they ain't going overboard.
If she is I'd bring up attachment and walk her through it. If she wants to overcome it and is open to that possibility she's worth keeping around and helping. If she calls you a crazy nutter or something like that and doesn't break down after a day or two (:Se: doms love to bully and issue hardcore shit tests after all) than she's probably "lost" and you're better off trying your luck with someone else.
Sadly, the middle part is exactly what happened. I already apologized in a for me uncharacteristically open-hearted and vulnerable letter that I spend a long time writing. A friend read it and she said that she could not possibly stay mad at her boyfriend any longer, if she would receive something like this from him after a fight. To her it was clear that I wrote it specifically with my love in mind, as it was written so personally.
Yet he did not agree. Throughout the letter I stated repeatedly how I miss him, yet a day after receiving it his response was a sharp: 'Let it go, because I missed respect from you.', to which I could only respond while tearing up: "I understand and respect your decision. I wish you all the best."
A month later, however, he sent me a simple: "Hey" and we started talking again. I once again apologized, and I expressed my happiness about his return. For a week things went well, or so it seemed. One evening we wished each other good night, but the following morning he had vanished. Not only that, when I tried messaging him, his profile picture was gone and I was answered by a stranger, who attempted to flirt with me. I had no interest in that nonsense and instead persisted in asking what was going on, though I got no answer whatsoever.
At least not a direct answer, his way of phrasing is so familiar to me that even when trying to obscure it, I unmistakably saw through his guise. However, I did not understand why he did this until much later; he had been heartbroken by me and thus did the same to me. An eye for an eye... Makes the whole world blind.
It's not even the first time that he interprets a faux pas by me as an intentional slight and retaliates to this with what he perceives as equal measures. That's one of the main reasons why everything went awry in the first place. I have no doubt that he has attachment issues, as he longs for love, but at the same time aggressively pushes everyone away who gets too close. Nevertheless, I only feel love and understanding for him.
After I puzzled together his motives I tried sending him another apology. When I wrote my message I noticed that his profile had returned to normal with the one exception that he had blocked me. I pondered about it some more and reached the conclusion that my previous apologies all told him that I regret what I did and that I do love him, yet none explained why I had lashed out at him. What happened was that I was incorrectly under the assumption that he had been deceiving me about money, whereas it turned out that he had been honest with me all along, but that he has a rather limited financial understanding. Even my friends didn't realize that when I asked them for advice on the situation. In turn, he sees my breaking up with him as betrayal.
So two days ago I have tried one final time. I rewrote the apology I couldn't send to include what had actually happened and posted it to his other social media account. He is less frequently on there, so I'll have to wait to see if he'll contact me. It's the last idea that I have, if this doesn't work, I don't know what will. In that case, I shall have to move on, regardless of if I want to or not.
I have even served as an acolyte. My local Pastor invited me together with one of my friends, and I was happy to do so for years. He was a great Pastor, as well as a tremendously kind, inspiring, and open-minded man. He held my parents' marriage, baptized my Sister and me, and carried out my Grandma's funeral. The last conversation I had with him before he passed away was just after he had visited the famous museum of natural history in the city where I study. He was always filled with such awe and wonder for the plants and animals around us. He was an incredibly kind soul.Quote:
Originally Posted by End
Although I appreciate Pope Francis, I do not like that he backtracked on his "gay people are people too" quote, even if he was pressured to do so by the rest of the Vatican. Nor can I ignore how the Church looks away on the decades-long child abuse that their clergy committed. Good leadership also means making unfavourable decisions, whenever this serves the best interest of the people. Through their willfull negligence they are complicit in my eyes. To me, an institution that defends such atrocities lacks any and all moral authority. I thus rather rely on my own morals.
I recommend the film Grâce à Dieu. Although it's too intense for too long in my opinion, I think that it accurately portrays the internal problems of the Church, which could fester unopposed for far too long. I think the only appropriate comment I can make on this is: May God forgive them for their sins, for I cannot.
Damn. Well, attachment issues and romance play out the same way regardless of orientation. Bad attachment (among other things) results in a lack of ability and/or receptiveness towards genuine emotional intimacy (I myself was firmly in the latter category). Genuine emotional intimacy is one of the primary reason people seek romance or are receptive to it in the first place. You are correct. He definitely has them and has them rather badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
If he does get back with you I'd try to explain the concept to him and offer to be a "safe" person he can open up to. After all, he's put you through a lot of shit and you're still there because you love him. If you were going to hate or abandon him you'd have done it already. If you can help him find 2 other people to also do that with the issues resolve themselves rather quickly as the brain reworks those pathways and stops activating the limbic system when people get "close" and the like. Three people seems to be the magic number. Once a person believes that at least three other people genuinely care about them flaws and all the issues rapidly disappear. Once those issues are resolved he'll be a great partner (and just happier overall). If he does not, then be sure to bring it up with your next partner on the first date. It really is the primary determinant factor regarding whether or not a romantic relationship will be successful long term. If the other person has them and wants to be rid of them it'll take patience on your part but it's worth it as fixing that fixes a ton of psychological issues. It'd actually cure them of disorders and the like. Of course, "cured" people have no need of big Pharma's psych meds. Hence why this knowledge isn't widely disseminated in the mainstream.
Also, they are subtle, nasty, insidious things. Take some time to reflect on your own actions and mindset. I've done that and I noticed how I had self-sabotaged all of my own prospective romances. I was dismissive-avoidant. Many girls did show interest in me. Pretty good-looking ones too, but I never followed up or really socialized with other people in general. Classic paranoid loner ILI. I'm working on changing that. Just knowing about them and their existence isn't enough. Like I've said elsewhere, the modern world is basically custom built to ensure we all get attachment issues. One can think they're free of them, and then act in the predictable manner one who has them would act and never notice at the time. I've recommended it elsewhere but "No More Mister Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover is a great resource on this and is written, as you likely guessed from the title, for men. Though its lessons could easily be ported over to women.
Thanks for the advice! Her house is no-go, apparently it's a sharehouse and no dudes allowed lol. But now I just bring her over to my place when my mum goes out so it's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Well, it's been a while since my last update, basically I'm dating the SEI now and already making plans to live together lol. For the first time ever in my life I'm in a dual relationship. Holy shit, it really is everything it's hyped up to be and much, much more. I mean obviously we're in the honeymoon phase right now but it's just so much more intense than anything I've experienced. I never met a woman that actually likes some of my childish idiosyncrasies. First time ever I feel genuinely appreciated and that the other party doesn't try to change who I am. Also I feel AMAZING like I got so much energy and willpower now lol. I'm seriously considering retyping as VLEF.
She says she hates cooking and sucks at it but every time we meet she gives me some homemade pie or snacks :oops:
After so much interaction, I've narrowed down her type to SEI-Fe, so/sp, FExx. The so/sp (vs my sx/sp) is a source of disagreement sometimes. She doeesn't understand why I'm so obsessive sometimes lol. But she doesn't really mind it. To me, it seems she prioritizes spending time with friends instead of together. The Psyche Yoga mismatch is barely noticeable. She's definitely 2E so I don't feel it on my 3rd.
YASSS! Happy to hear that @The Banana King :biggrin: Duality relationships are something else! Enjoy!! :D
You can always pay hommage to your screen name and monkey climb the building all Donkey Kong style to save your Princess Peach. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Banana King
Or is it the other way around and will she come for you? :blow::mojojojo:
Anyway, glad to hear it's working out, dude! And kind of your mother that she gives the two of you some privacy. She must be really happy to see the two of you so in love. :kissing:
Living together might actually be better feasible, than going to live on your own, given that the two of you can now share the costs. What's it actually that each of you does for a living/studying, if I may ask?
Additionally, before renting a place together, I would always recommend going on a holiday first, because that's one of the best ways to find out what your 24/7 dynamics are like and what each other's daily habits are. Everyone is raised a certain way after all and living together thus means adapting to each other's style. Therefore, going on vacation together is a solid way of getting to know each other better beforehand. It doesn't even have to be costly or far away, there even exist people who enjoy camping in a tent. In the end, going on holiday is all about getting away from the distractions of your daily lives to focus on each other and form a stronger bond. Even more, it would be especially romantic during the Christmas season. Although that tent might be a bit frisky now, so better warm each other up. :hug:
By the way, what do VLEF, FExx, and 2E mean? Does it refer to her being a SEI with emphasis on Extroverted Ethics?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
It sounds to me like the SLI is more interested into you than the SLE. If one cares, one makes time to reply, regardless of a busy job. That's my two cents, but it's your choice.
So SEIs shoving food on ILEs is really a thing huh
Aw thanks. Yeah from my experience of going on dates with SLEs..I will try not to take them too seriously at first/ for quite a while..they seem to view dating much too like a game/playing a part. I mean fair enough in a way, when it comes to dating apps there isn’t that initial gravitation towards someone that happens when you meet someone in real life. But they do get in my head so best to be careful. Oh I found an SEE too ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
and yeah I agree that if someone is interested they’ll reply quickly because..why not it’s not hard to go for a quick drink..
That sounds like a wise attitude to have around SLEs. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
And a SEI as well, wasn't it? It sounds like you have choice a plenty. I don't know how you do the balancing act of giving them all equal attention? Even in the begin stages, I subconsciously always tend to priotize one over everyone else, I'm not really good at distributing my emotions evenly, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
I’m like that too, can only ‘feel’ something for one person at a time, even if it’s early stages. I think I only like the SEI as a friend for the moment, having a little break from chatting. Happened naturally..sort of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
The SLI added me on Facebook and I didn’t know whether to accept..so I messaged the SLE because I wanted to see how I’d feel if he messaged back..he did but not that much so I went ahead and accepted the SLI on fb. His fb profile scared me off a little bit..and then I remembered a hot SEE who I’d matched with but had seemed a bit forward so I stopped chatting to him. I looked back at the messages and realised it wasn’t that bad and now we’re talking again. But he has gone away for Xmas so now I’m trying to take my mind off him lol. Bear in mind I’ve only met the SLI and SEI.
I started ‘looking’ properly in July and it took me a while to get out of dual seeking mode, even though I was trying. The positive thing I’ve taken from this is that..whilst I am somewhat fussy regarding type, I’ve become less judgemental when it comes to other aspects of personality. It took a while for the SLI to grow on me and even though he seems a bit odd I’m not saying never. Also when I decided to talk to the SEE again I realised he was nicer/more interesting than I first thought.
So I’m hoping I can trust my instincts a bit more now in ‘finding someone’. Also it would be good to have a few maybes in case you start something with someone and it doesn’t work :(
That sounds completely fair, as long as he knows that too. It's nice to also have some friends from the other gender. Diversity is enlightening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
If I may ask, has the SLE ever messaged you first, or do you always have to drag it out of him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Now you got everyone curious and wondering what's so frightening that he posted on his Facebook profile. :ghost:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
It sounds like a good idea then to plan meeting up with the SEE once he returns. Though knowing SEEs, when he agrees I would definitely send a reminder later on, because generally they're not the best at remembering appointments in the long-term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Yeah, getting into relationships is a tough biscuit. Do you like any sports, because to my knowledge Se-doms frequently excel at them. You can even just watch as a spectator and be assured that you'll stumble into them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Keeping an open mind is always good, as people can surprise you. Though what I tend to hear in this is that you kinda already discounted the SLI for his oddities. He might not be your best bet if you already feel like this about him, though you can always check that by going on a casual date with him, in order to find out for sure. I wouldn't yet put a ring on him, since it might be better to keep your eyes open for a while longer. Who knows how much you'll like the SEE when meeting up with him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Life's all trial and error, and through your dating experiences you develop your instincts. I believe that things will turn out right for you, as long as you keep on trying, even though it might not be a straight path from A to B, but then again no-one's life is.
At the beginning it's nice to have options for when things don't work out, but eventually you'll have to decide to become exclusive and go steady or not, and if you do you cannot keep those maybe's hanging. But probably I'm kicking at an open door with this. #Captain_Obvious_to_the_rescue Also, do you know that the sky is blue, unless when it's not? :hyper:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethany
Yeah we will have that conversation..and I agree 100% about having male friends. It's fun and they can offer a different type of support than women.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
drag it out lol and no he hasn't messaged first. I don't think I'll message him again now unless he messages first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
it's not that bad..he seems to have some unconventional (but sort of interesting) political views regarding Covid and also a few posts that seem a bit resentful towards women. But I don't think he's a bad guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Nope..but I do go clubbing so that's a good way to meet SEEs/ maybe ILEs. I'm gonna make an effort to talk to people more on nights out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Yeah and SLI guy is away studying for a while so I can put him out of my mind a bit. See how the next six months go..It's true, someone might not be truly ready for a relationship or mentally healthy enough for one which is something to look out for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Yeah..it feels good to be putting myself out there and learning from one date to the next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
Hmm I think I'll be ready to give it a go if the other person is :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
I'm a broke student right now. She barely gets by as a hairdresser. So a vacation is beyond our means. But I really like the idea of a camping trip! I'm gonna try that, maybe about a month or two from now, cuz I have to "warm her up" to the idea :hello:. She likes comfort too much but I'll convince her somehow. Never did winter camping but I bet it's real fun and cozy to do with a significant other :content:Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
All those are Psyche Yoga/Attitudinal Psyche notations, VLEF, FELV, FEVL are different types, 2E represents Emotion as 2nd function. Basically she is flexible in dealing with her own and other's emotions. Emotionally manipulative but in a constructive way I guess lol.
Yeah, it's not the first time it happened to me either lol. Back in middle/high school some classmates would donate their leftovers to me, usually Si leads or Si-polrs that thought the food was gross.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna Lovegood
On the other hand, an ILE-Ne friend of mine has a SEI-Si bff, and the ILE is the one always cooking stuff for the SEI to eat :lol: I always found it weird that this ILE dude liked (and was skilled at) cooking so much. He made pretty elaborate dishes sometimes.
Personally I enjoy eating much more than cooking but it's a necessary evil I guess. I do enjoy cooking with my mom or gf however lol.
Being called "naughty" is a big turn off for obvious reasons. You (no not you literally but you hopefully get my point), my prospective wife/partner, aren't supposed to be my mother, you're supposed to be my lover. Now if you cursed me for doing/awakening something within you as you shoved me onto your bed or something like that on the other hand :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I never really got/understood that. You'd think the extrovert would love to have an introvert help them and that they'd relish being the one who gets to take the credit. That may be an ILI-SEE dynamic at play however. I am more than happy to be the "Grand Vizier"/power behind the throne. The SEE can get all the attention and credit for my efforts. All that matters to me is that I achieved my ends and if my dual's ends matched up with mine own so much the better :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I've said it elsewhere but it bears repeating. I don't give a flying fuck about credit or standing. All I care about is winning/achieving my ends. So long as I don't have to bow down and suck Satan's cock and/or do something objectively immoral to get there I'm game!
It does sound to me particular to the SEE/ILI dynamic, because I would prefer to share the limelight with my partner and be a power couple. I want to show the world how great, loving, and successful we are together.Quote:
Originally Posted by End
Though I too find it more important to realize my goals, than to receive the credits for them. People who keep boasting I find off-putting, instead I let my achievements speak for themselves.
The dude has reacted to my message on his other social media account. I poured my whole heart out to him and all I got was a meagre "Hello". Moreover, since writing that he hasn't even checked his profile to await my reply. If he had truly loved me he would have frequented it. I'm loyal, but I cannot love someone who keeps hurting me and doesn't care. I've given it my all, but in a relationship two have to tango, so I let it go.
Now I just have to end it... Personally I hope that he simply never bothers to send me a second message, and that that's it, but I doubt that it'll be that easy.
But it feels good to have finally reached a decision with my heart, and even one that both my logic and my friends agree with. No more exhausting vacillating between my feelings and my reasoning. 1D Fi can be a struggle at times.
With this off my mind, I can finally focus again on getting my study work done.
@Armitage, your post has “Victim” written all over it. I recognize the point of view. Being a Victim sucks sometimes, but not as much as falling for someone with an Avoidant attachment style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
I recommend that you buy Jeb Kinnison’s book Avoidant: How to Love or Leave a Dismissive Partner.
Here, I fixed it for you. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
@Armitage I'm sorry for your pain, and glad that you have reached a decision and are feeling your ability to focus on other matters returning. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage
I met a really nice and attractive woman from Tinder. We went to a concert together. Based on pics and our conversation I had hoped that she could be LII, but I think she is an ILI. She is really nice, a normalizer. I could see IEI also, but I think ILI fits better.
So, it felt kindof awkward, because in a way it was nice, but the incompatibility was also clear to me. Should I write her and explain that I think she's nice but I don't think we are compatible? These situations are hard.
I've been in situations like that. You can write her, but telling her in person is more polite. And more awkward. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallmo
"I'm breaking up with you, not because I don't like you, but because I follow the teachings of an obscure Russian cult that says you and I could never be happy together."
Oh, yeah.
Say that to her with a straight face, and you're ready for the stage. Also, she's going to think that you're really, really bad at breaking up, but that actually might work in your favor because you're never going to see her again and you don't have to try to appear normal.
Resist the temptation to introduce her to an SEE. That's the coward's way out.