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I have discussed this in the Alpha thread of learning and question on how to catch an Alpha NT or Alpha SF. I want to do one for each quadra. I am moving onto Beta now cause I had fun learning and questioning in the Alpha quadra with this. I think it can help kinda bridge the gap and set better traps :hello:
So, how do you catch a Beta NF or ST?
Edit: @BandD *nudge nudge* I want your opinion on this tooooo pleaseeeeeee when you get the chance.
Each Beta has their own particular approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDucki
I don't know..... Beta NFs should be pretty good at avoiding traps, and Beta STs should be pretty good at getting out of them.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDucki
Maybe for the NFs, you can lure them in on a friendly tip, and then do what you do from there.....
Beta ST does the choosing from what I understand, so you doing the trapping on them might not work....unless you pretend to be in need of rescuing????
Put away that knife first though, because that won't work :biggrin:
That knife is a bit disconcerting. :)
This is from the lost archives of E.J. Arendee:
How to Seduce the Types:
EIE: Stalk them. They love the attention. They're going to act like they don't like it, but they love it. They're like, "I hate drama. I hate games." Tell them, "It's time to play some games." This bitch loves games.
LSI: They're kind of chicken shit, so they'll stalk you, they'll look at you from across the room, so you should make friends with all their friends, so they can't run away, then you should be good. They're like ESIs, but warmer.
SLE: Act like a victim, like you need a superhero, and they'll feel validated.
IEI: Tell them they're a slut. Threaten to hit them with things, tell them that you're going to go Steve Austin on them, until they insert, Uh, whatever. So tell them they're a slut. They love to feel validated and seen, deep down.
Just because I have a knife y’all doesn’t mean I am going to use it! I am an innocent duck surrounded by big bad carnivores that want to eat me. Gotta have self defense! I don’t bite or shank really! It seems the only ones not put off by the knife are the alphas…this is now making me question my own quadra LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I find it humorous that the SLE is the only one that seems the most realistic and calm in regards to trapping lol. But I have for sure witness SLE and EIE for sure in regards to that.
I figured it works like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damsel_in_distress
https://i.imgur.com/JvZQ0zi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ajry7sY.png
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDucki
You seem pretty SEI to me. Dimensionally, you are identical to ESIs, and in my experience, ESIs also are preoccupied with the idea of being eaten by bigger, larger carnivores.
I said to one recently, "Really?"
She replied, "Oh, Yes!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDucki
E.J. Arendee is SLE and a genius when it comes to clear, accurate representations of the types.
The whole victimy thing won't work for me since I'm already expected to pick up my own weight lol. I have no time to wait for SLEs. But I can't say what /does/ work.
I almost prefer myself being the aggressor nowadays.
I don't know what IEI do to win the affections of SLE but I had to slay an intellectual dragon to gain the love of mine. I won and then we broke up because he lived too far away... Sorsha <3 I exploded a intellectual dragons head.
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCmX8_c9tSE
lol oh I know I am SEI-Fe by now, It’s been pretty confirmed by most people on this site now so I am done questioning my type at this point. I meant question it in regards that they don’t seem put off by the knife, rather they don’t mention much then other quadra members on here which I find funny. But Alpha NT’s don’t really seem to notice Se like things until they are in danger and bit off more then they can chew so, that’s my little theory on that lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
There ARE carnivores in this world! People will eat ya if your not careful yo…especially if you are cute, sweet and got 4D Fi :P
lol, I guess they are programmed to expect food, which is pretty cool tbf.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDucki
If you're just looking to hang out with betas though, I guess SE FE activities/events is a pretty good place to start..... if you don't mind the SE too much
LMAO much more then you think and I thought originally…..Quote:
Originally Posted by rtht
More so I started this thread to look at kinda closing the gap between the ethics and logical side for each quadra and bring more understanding. With the alpha thread, I am curious about attracting and brining more alpha NT’s in my life cause I need some and would appreciate more alpha friends as I didn’t grow up in dominant alpha spaces so I don’t really know how to find or get close to them. I was hoping this thread could help Beta ST’s and NF’s in this way too. We gotta lots lurkers on here so I’m thinking it can help someone. Plus, it’s always good to get to learn and understand different types from each quadra me thinks. In a little while I plan to post one for Gamma and then Delta. I have been around a lot of Beta’s in general so I’m good with them personally.
This is true for SLEs except don't act like a freaking victim, be a victimQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
@flowers and sugar demonstrated this well in a post talking about fainting. That's the kinda garbage SLEs like. It's gotta be legit. If it's acting, the person can fuck off
..............Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDucki
Now I'm just imagining you walking around with a sword and using it to butter some toasts... it's at the same time badass, caregive-y, and impractical. :lol:
I am MissDucki! The knight of toast butter-ing! Fear me slices of bread!Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers and sugar
Basically me in a nutshell ;) Though, I like to think I am a bit more practical XD
Hm, I think I recall people saying IEI don't like asking for help, sometimes to their own detriment. Up to having to kinda impose help on them sometimes, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stray Cat
Seems like not wanting to interrupt the flow of life by forcing your way into it. As if people are going their own path and any disturbance could set them off course. So when people just includes them in their path, they feel like they matter and that they can be a part of something without disturbing.
Kinda like you did by mentioning me here, fucking shocking, but okay in the end. I wouldn't have thought about this otherwise.
There's quite a few contradictions floating around, like the manipulativeness of beta NFs looking helpless for attention or idk what. Okay, maybe the neurotic ones, but the average are cool and can mostly handle themselves like actual people.
I find the not asking for help but needing it anyway, up to having someone deciding to help out of their own accord fairly Ni/Se. It can look aggressive, but it is it's own brand of care.
@MissDucki Oooh I've been summoned!
hmm I feel kinda if I knew the answer to this question I'd already have somebody lol. Here's what I've liked though in the past:
Somebody protecting me. I can be vulnerable/overly emotional/easily annoyed. Like a "woman" I suppose ((I don't mean that in an offensive way)) - and I like being protected by hot masculine energy lol. It's so hot if a guy is just like idk a real man and punches another guy in the face if he's bothering me. Or I mean he doesn't have to be violent, just standing up for me is greatly appreciated.
Somebody who is forward with sex, kind of "aggressive" but not rough or rape-y. Somebody that just goes for it and is confident... works better for me. Being too insecure or wishy washy probably won't work well. Erotic attitudes can be subtle though- it's more like they are the ones forward with sex, not necessarily anything too intense ((but certainly not anything too tame and boring either!)). Te is like external moving energy ((external objects in motion)) and being too dynamic like that will actually trigger my PoLR not my dual seeking function! It's more like a calm static confidence I'm into. ((external objects at rest))
Somebody that isn't afraid to kiss me either, or simply be kind to me - this is kind of a mixed bag and is important tho because growing up I got turned off by a lot of guys because although they were nice, they were also too insecure & cowardly didn't make any primal moves whatsoever. Or the reverse: They had the right animalistic manly drive but were afraid to show their sensitive/intimate side. Insecurely thought it made them look weak. Both things are really necessary to me for a relationship- the imbalance of one over the other it's not going to work well or have any lasting staying power. So somebody that understands that most people are kind of a hybrid of angel/demon is nice.
Sadly a lot of gay guys struggle with confidence. There's a funny joke in the drag community that white straight guys tend to walk into every building as if they built it. No reason why gay guys can't have that confidence as well. More gay guys should have that confidence- but gay men stereotypically have a deer in the headlights look a lot of the time. Maybe due to homophobia & bullying they experienced, my IEI mentor friend said once that 'gay guys had the toughness beaten out of them' and I think that's sad but probably true. A lot of the guys I really liked before tended to be more bi than gay - but another gay guy can work, as all gay men ((and everybody else)) should understand that confidence looks good on everybody.
I also want them to be confident both in and out of drag- but a lot of gay guys are only confident in their Drag Persona for some reason. Not really a turn on for me. Being an arrogant bully is also a turn-off, of course.
Somebody that can hold down a job- I'm not picky with what they do exactly if I like them- but they will need to work, and I want to work too ((I do have a job now just not really a very good paying one- but I'm working on improving in this area lol)) and not be that dependent on each other for finances. Also maybe they would have to understand I like my own space too a lot even if I really like them. I am very introverted & need time to process things lol.
So Idk if I helped you with what you asked for but I hope you liked it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandD
I also find I am much more confident when playing a character. Cosplaying was my favourite activity as a kid, and I never grew out of it I guess. I feel the most in control of myself and those around me when I'm playing a character, so I find myself basically always playing a character which I craft to suit a given person or group of people. It's not like I'm not being myself, but rather just a different part of myself. It's always been a nightmare when two or more people/groups of people who I've been playing different-ish characters around meet though. I end up having to blend my two presentations together, but that can be easier with some than others. It's the weirdest whenever one of those groups happens to be family since I'm still a good Christian boi in their eyes lolQuote:
Originally Posted by BandD
Ahhh..... so this is why I'm only attracted to people with BPD, narcissists, and anime tsunderes..... This is concerningly accurate lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I mean yeah tbh I'd rather date a shy soft IEI that was cutely honest about his vulnerabilities than a SLE douche that tried to cover them up. ((but I mean of course ideally I'd prefer a SLE that was healthy and balanced.)) It's much more annoying to me when a ILE or SLE lacks confidence for some reason...
IEIs are rawly honest about our vulnerabilities in a way that I like. To other people it's 'playing victim' and it annoys them- like a lot of Te-ego women who look & act like they are fisherman's wives don't seem to like it?
Different people have different sorts of charms, so I wouldn't say there is only one way to catch me. Even though I recognize physical appeal and would say it's generally pretty important that someone look attractive to me, it doesn't really affect my felt attraction to them all that much. What does massively attract me to someone is very forward flirting. I like people who aren't afraid to physically put their hands on me even if I just met them a moment ago. Timidity or oversensitivity around touch bothers me a lot. I myself am very timid about touch because it affects me very powerfully, but I don't like such hesitation in others. If you want me to fall for you completely in seconds then grab my hand excitedly, punch me in the shoulder a little hard when I'm being cheeky, bear hug me from behind when I'm not expecting it, try to trip me up when I'm walking, and basically don't be afraid to almost bully me (in good spirits though). Control my body and the space around me, and do so confidently and without asking first. I've had a few people do this kind of thing to me before, and it's the best feeling ever. This shit is heroine to me lol
To be honest, I think that enneagram is just as important a factor, here. I have a very specific "type" of person I am attracted to, but there also are types that are attractive to me in other ways...
The Chaotic Good Outlaw:
This is my favorite type of person, and what I would want in partner. Generally, the person is an extrovert and logical type, minus LSE.. They are an SLE, LIE or ILE, and are generally an 8w7 or 7w8. This is my type that is right on the money, and I do not as much care for if the person is an SLE, ILE or LIE, as much as do for the archetype. You can find an LIE who is quite SLE-like, and same for the ILE, especially given that both ILE and SLE have HA Fe and PolR Fi. Generally, this is going to be my realm of dating.
They make for easy conversation, deviate from the norm and are rebellious, yet caring and gregarious. They have a big soft spot for sensitive and innocent archetype, and will even if normally douchey and jokinh in an insensitve, light-hearted way, soften up around them. They yearn explore and defend the weak and seek someone more emotional, sensitive and wise. They conjure conversation and rapport builds.. The thing attractive to me here is:
-their lighthearted nature
-their soft spot
-their wanting voyage and be exploratory
-their innate need to protect what is vulnerable and sensitive
-their willingness to let me vent emotionally and not getting angry or put off by my expression
-their treating me as if I matter and my emotions are valid
-their seeing me as wise and unique
-their seeking spirituality
I guide them spiritually, and they allow me to ground so I can channel myself, and they support my intuitive insights. they reject authority and do not care if something is "good" or "bad", so as long as it matches what needs at the given moment.
Yuri Lowell is my ideal archetype of a lover.
The Soft Intellectual:
is another type I can attract to, though it is more placid and not as much an intense surge of compatibility, though rapport builds overtime as does admiration. They admire me intuitive thinoing and philsophivcal nature, whereas I value their yearning to know and impressive breadth of knowledge. They tend me nonjudgmental, given they are highly educated and more aware.
Hours of phone call discussing philosophy and intellectual insights is the norm.. sometimes, they also feel need to invest in me, even if I do not reciprocate as much.. Their emotional aloofness can be a turn off for me, and their more need to be independent and away.. I can value being independent, but not on an emotional level. Generally, they are LII 5w6 or 5w4's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braingel
So how can they get my approval of them?
-be there for me on an emotional level (most important thing)
-validate my emotions; show me you are comfortable with my emotions and that you accept them, and also that you care about how I am feeling
-have a belief or understanding of the paranormal and metaphysical
-get me out of myself and knock me out of my inertia, and help me explore and move.
-appreciate my differences
-break rules and disregard authority (but still be a good person, and don't do such in ways that harm of others)
-show me your soft spot (which most often is done through their being there for me on emotional level)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASysrgrG0ik&t=5s
I find this attractive (that is Yuri Lowell). He either is an SLE or an LIE that is SLE-ish. 8w7 in movie, 8w9 in video game, and in movie he is purely SLE, but it is the video game where he may be an LIE with SLE embodiment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g4Zh4g2QQ0&t=1s
Invite them out to hike and be persistent about pursuing them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braingel
What does this look like?
Being there for me on emotional level: I want feel hugged by their energy. Their actions, words and overall countenance projects a "hugging' feeling. I do also respond well to physical hugging as well, but longer ones, given a three second hug is meaningless and defeats purpose of hug, other than it does inscribe gesture and a knowing of care and concern, even if that short.
Validate my emotions: Self-exclamatory. Tell me what I feel is valid, reflect/mirror my emotion appropriately. So if I am expressing discomfort, assuring me, or if I feel angry, getting angry at what upset me, or acknowledging that I am angry. Asking me what's wrong or if I am okay..
Have a belief of paranormal: exclamatory, but can explain by what I mean.. An u
innate knowing of energy, even if it is not as advanced as my own understanding.. Believing in the force behind life. Not trying to close me off and enforce religious dogma.
Knocking me out of inertia: Inspiring me, taking me out to do things, taking me out in general, helping me to advance towards my goals and setting up plan to get them enforced. This is what makes SLE the best canidate of even the ILe and LIE, given they surge action. But LIE also can be initiative as well, especially if they are the more SLE kind/subtype that also supresses their te stomping me. Traveling is an excellent way to knock me out, and forces me to be externally moving.
Appreciating my differences: my neurodiversity, accepting my quirks. Not uniforming me to others and downplaying my experiences...
Break rules and disregard authority: Against government, hates people who abuse power.. Makes 8 a natural good match, as well as 7 if winged 8th. Will cross street if no cars are around.. Will not report others for things that are stupid policy and that harm no one and should not even be against law...
Showing soft spot: Already explained, but showing your care and concern for me, others, or by showing your emotions to me, that are more vulnerable.. Your shame, your tears, your anxiety..
I definitely would be most likely to marry an extroverted logical type, other than the LSE. But it could also happen with an LII. The LII would ask me to marry them and they would initiate it, and it would probably be a very long relation, maybe even platonic most of way, and it just happens so we get very close and overtime, it edges closer and closer to where we just merge. We start off as intellectual or spiritual partners.. I would not be quite as happy here, given they would be a bit more emotionally aloof.. but.. With me being the IEI2Fe, I do also resemble their dual, the ESE a bit. This can be in part of why LII is a bit more compatible with me than is normal. It just makes sense to marry at the point we are so close that it just becomes comfortable and it is more than just a partnership in intellect.. It would not be an instant attraction though, and would probably span years before marriage ever would even talk of, and again, may not even be romantic in most of the course. The benefit relation is a very unlikely breaking up unless the benefactor does so. The beneficiary almost never will leave.. This can be reassuring on some level, that an LII would only want me and always be there.
I would be most likely to marry in order with a scale of 20 in sum:
An SLE. 10/20 (50%). Meet my dual, or do not. That splits into two extremes, leaving one out of two, making fifty.
An LIE that is a subtype reminiscent of an SLE and whose Te is drained and their Ni is more bold, as is their Se amplified :5/20 (25%)
An ILE: 2.5% (12.5%, which can round to 13)
An LII: same percentage as above
Charts:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...285&height=297
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...289&height=297
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...289&height=297
From this, I would date any kind of SLE, but preferably SLE2Ti an LIE2Te.. It is appearing as if 2 in the type makes them with me, compatible.. An ILE-2Ti, or an LII2Ne or 3Ti.
It is very unlikely I am going to date an LIE that is not an LIE2Te.. As the only way they are to not Te stomp me, is if they resemble my dual and care less about te and have focused Ni and Se. They probably are going to have to as well, be an enneagram type 8. My pseduo being ESE and theirs being SLE would make the relation superficially of a benefit dynamic. I would be more attracted to them than would be they of me, given I would be the beneficiary and they, the benefactor.
LII-3Ti makes for a semi dual as pseudo relation.. Same for ILE-2Ti. And SLE-2Ti is my true dual.
Sometimes I get drunk and screw up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T40vj40ZZQ
I feel like a lot of the victim-like behavior comes from the fact that beta NFs think about romance and sex way more than they actually do it.
I imagine an interaction to be like this:
SLEs don't really think about it they just kind of act on it. A lot of time they aren't even romantic.
When an IEI and SLE meet and the SLE asks them out the IEI will suddenly look at this person and not be sure what to think of going out. The SLE is persistent (if they're interested) and the IEI concedes to going.
The IEI will be wondering about what they think about the SLE or how they would feel with them and the SLE may take their hand or pull them closer to them and the IEI would feel a sudden rush.
They've been pulled out of their head and tethered to the real world.
In romance, the SLE doesn't let the IEI think so much, since they are so physical.
I think the EIE would be more likely to ask LSI out or drop some serious hints for them to be asked out. This interaction is a lot easier for me to imagine lol. For some reason, I imagine this in an office setting.
The EIE is going on about something with a group of people and an LSI asks them to clarify what they said. The EIE had pointed out something that seems to the LSI as a contradiction.
The LSI keeps challenging the EIE to justify what they are saying with a rationale.
The LSI may seem to others as hopelessly literal or rigid but to the EIE they found a true conversation partner that listens and doesn't just tune them out lol.
The LSI is usually compelled to correct "wrongness" when they hear it, the EIE appreciates this.
STs also have a quiet confidence that can be subtly sexy to an NF who has a hard time existing in the world lol. This one is a little hard for me to explain and it might just be me.
But STs seem to be more in their bodies if that makes sense. I think this is true for most of the sensors, they are their body.
For NFs and intuitives in general they have to think about using their body more like there's a delay between their mind and their body.
My space can be violated and I don't really care and I can sometimes welcome it. My LSI SO does not like this at all and will outright tell people not to hug her or touch her if they try to.
I think touch has a big part of beta dynamics, I've read in places that they like to express physical affection extremely (like squeezing a partner as hard as they can).
I think there's truth to that for the reason mentioned above, NFs need to be forcefully pulled out of their imaginary world and into planet earth.
I think you have it backwards. IEIs aren't victims. we only act like them. nobody in beta actually allows themselves to be a victim (unless they have self esteem problems or something). acting strong for ST and acting weak for NF are the strategies to avoid being taken advantage of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stray Cat
And I don't think IEIs wouldn't appeal to SLEs if deep down we were actually weak victims. what's intriguing about us to them is that despite being seemingly helpless with Se/Te idiocy, we're not actually, and have our own ways of getting what we want.
In a nutshell, SLE-IEI duality is about feeling strong together. So.. it goes both ways.
Are you saying you manipulate them?Quote:
Originally Posted by chocolatte
Type behavior isnt consciousQuote:
Originally Posted by Stray Cat
it's not the first time you mention that beta duality seems manipulative btw
Use your hands.
Yeah @, Ieis ain't no victims to themselves! – but to the outside world/others… well outta all 16 types, yes most likely to seem victim-y. I mean dear lord, just look at their damn stack; they can’t help but have a maladjusted go at modern daily life. Jung said, “ The introverted intuitive has, in a way, a very difficult life, although one of the most interesting lives”,
and what’s interesting is their internal source of power- not seen.
With victim we usually think of a silencing put onto them or put onto themselves and the archetypal structure is breaking through this while having experience on both sides- to have embodied the oppressed and the heard. Ieis eventually need to express and be heard almost solely because of this. But will they ever find their star in the absolute sensory world? Hell, no. But also as per Jung in his psychological types, (not word for word), unfortunately, to most people they’ll look fucking helpless and useless.
The way Iei are seen and the way they are to themselves I think is the widest discrepancy of all types. I may look like a victim or play up victim-hood sometimes intentionally, sometimes not (as expressed above)- but I know I’m not and the people FOR Ieis (and Seis), know this as well.
sorry @!!Quote:
chocolatte
What's with the "lying", "manipulative" look-what-the-cat-dragged-in words?…. Like duh the whole socion knows this by now, but so are you. We just usually know we are… three steps ahead. And when you do it… you’ll scratch your head later sayin, oh shit!... three steps behind. I just find it hard to believe a Sle is getting hung up on this negative Fi nonsense unless in a polr slump. And the Fi heavy stuff at Fe creatives (but for objective research! All the while saying you don’t “like” it?)… come on we know NO ONE can induce Fi self-hate more than an Iei towards themselves (Sei second). I'd say we can sniff it out even better...Quote:
straycat
Your Ti seems to be a gettin so infused with Fi it’s starting to stink up the litter box :thinking:
Just shut the fuck up. Don't need another novel analyzing my behavior. Do logic a favor & fuck offQuote:
Originally Posted by Tentacles
Everyone lies from time to time and everyone has been manipulative, sometimes, maybe even most of the time, without realizing it. Socionics can help us look at our behaviors and see which ways we are acting manipulative that we might not have been aware of.
I often play the victim personally, and yes, it could be called manipulation. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. when one plays on them, is that manipulative? Many aren’t consciously aware of them, they just have adapted to utilize them.
@Stray Cat, you seem a bit hung up on lying and manipulation, especially in IEI’s. You made a thread about it and then called chocolate out on it. you could have picked anything else, but you honed in on that. It seems to me maybe you have had a bad personal experience and are projecting it on a type and biting other peoples heads off because of it. just my2cents. :)