Those sneaky Semi-Duals

I've noticed semi-duals can easily get between a dual pair. They can seem rather oblivious, unaware of what they're getting into, but self-assured enough to cause trouble. One may find themselves completely disoriented in a world where your dual appears to choose someone else over you. There's really no way to prepare for it. You can definitely handle it, but you can't really predict it. I guess my question is should a dual partner on reasonably good terms with the other fear those sneaky semi-duals? Can semi-duals really be better than your dual?

For me, no. I would rather be with an ILE then an IEE man any-day. I hung out with an IEE for a little while and it was worlds apart. I don't like Fi in a romantic partner and they can't give me the Ti that I really need. Great people to talk to, just I am not interested in them romantically. I would rather be with a mirage partner over semi-dual.

Anecdotally, I think semiduals tend to interact more, and "notice" each other more, while duals tend more to inhabit the fringes of someone's perception. For instance, I've noticed my ESE mother has many LSI friends, and they seem immediately drawn to each other in a way I've not noticed happening with any dual pair. She knows a few LIIs, but she hasn't bothered getting to know most of them, nor they her. The one exception is her LII brother, who she gets along with very well and talks to almost every day by phone.

Before I knew about Socionics, I don't think I would have really paid much attention to ESEs either; if I'd been asked what I thought about them I'd probably just say they seem nice but inhabit a different world. If someone had told me that an EIE was the ideal relation for me I'd be more inclined to believe them, because I've interacted with more of them and immediately "hit it off," where there's a little more difficulty in getting a conversation started with ESEs, I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissDucki

For me, no. I would rather be with an ILE then an IEE man any-day. I hung out with an IEE for a little while and it was worlds apart. I don't like Fi in a romantic partner and they can't give me the Ti that I really need. Great people to talk to, just I am not interested in them romantically. I would rather be with a mirage partner over semi-dual.

---

Yes, irrational's mirage = rational's semi dual and vice versa.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissDucki

For me, no. I would rather be with an ILE then an IEE man any-day. I hung out with an IEE for a little while and it was worlds apart. I don't like Fi in a romantic partner and they can't give me the Ti that I really need. Great people to talk to, just I am not interested in them romantically. I would rather be with a mirage partner over semi-dual.

---

My guess is that irrational types tend to prefer mirage partners to semiduals, and rational types tend to prefer semiduals to mirage partners. I'm interested to see how that holds up.

Lol, got beaten to the punch by @BrightDemonSheep96.

Personally, I would rather have someone who has the same feeling/thinking axis rather then the same sensing/intuition axis. With SLE's I know we don't see or do things the same way but, I get how they feel and they respond well to me. I know we may not have the same end goals or perceptions, but we vibe on the same feeling wavelength and it feels good. I've mentioned before that I get along really well with SLE people. With IEE, I do like them as people and I love interacting with the Ne just, romantically I am not attracted to higher Fi users. This may be a bit blunt to say but, I feel a bit duped with semi dual. Like I get this Ne and then BAM! Fi! which I wasn't expecting. Then we gotta deal with each others polar, it can be a bit messy. They have amazing minds, just not a romantic choice.

I'm not crapping on Fi by any means. Majority of my family and majority of my close friends have been Fi users. Just as a Fe user, It's nice to be around romantically with someone with the same feeling/thinking axis.

Semi-dual comfort is often compared favorably to that between dual pairs. But I can't imagine why. At least for irrational semi-duals, comfort and concern is obvious, even between colleagues at work, yet those little things your dual does cannot be replicated by your semi-dual. At least not in a timely fashion. How some descriptions can recognize the incessant "alertness" between semi-duals, but then compare that favorably to comfort levels between duals is a mystery to me. In the case of rational semi-duals, they may recoil because the implementation of the other's value system is bound to be radically different from that of their dual. Yet you often hear people claim to be totally content with semi-duals as romantic partners and their duals as 'friends'.

Apparently...

Sensing/Intuition is responsible for Erotic Attitudes
Feeling/Logic is responsible for Communication Styles

If a person consistently chooses semidual over dual, that person is mistyped, stupid or has an issue with their dual.

I have ethical issues. My Fi function is a shit show. Fi demo will do.

What a (healthy) dual has to offer you is unmatched by any other type. It seems semi-duals find each other faster than duals because of certain commonalities, but that doesn’t mean they’re more compatible.

In a semi-dual pair, each is forced to take care of some things by themselves. It fosters independence - which can be a valuable trait, but not my ideal. Beyond the initial “oooh, shiny!” attractiveness, the intruding semi-dual in the OP’s question would be hard-pressed to try to separate a dual pair that has gotten used to one another.

The polarity which your dual uses their lead is different from the one your semidual uses.

EII tend to use Ethics of Forgiveness
ESI tend to use Ethics of Disapproval

Semi-duals tends to have slightly more in common than one's dual. What one desires (commonality, understanding) most often wins out over what one needs (complementary, helpfulness), and of course, the hotter one usually wins unless that person is a complete idiot. I wouldn't call such competition sneaky.

a.k.a. I/O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rebelondeck

Semi-duals tends to have slightly more in common than one's dual. What one desires (commonality, understanding) most often wins out over what one needs (complementary, helpfulness), and of course, the hotter one usually wins unless that person is a complete idiot. I wouldn't call such competition sneaky.

a.k.a. I/O

---

Semi-duals are compelling because they meet your basic needs while sharing those commonalities. They can be very hard to resist. What's sneaky is their entering a space of duality they have no business entering. They masquerade as meeting those basic needs to give you the familiarity your dual provides you. This may even become an obsession between semi-duals, which perhaps explains why they often view each other as arrogant and/or condescending.

My LII sister's first love was an EIE guy who had a small plane and was trying to, and later did, become a commercial pilot. They were together for a few years and are still friends, but she's now married to an LSE and he's divorced and pining for her. She told me that he recently sent her pictures of himself unclothed.
I said "What? Who does that? Jesus, the guy must be in his fifties now, and that can't look good."
She laughed. "Right. I think he wants to get back together again." She paused. "He was the one person who I thought really understood me, but he was terrible in bed. And if we ever tried to live together, we'd kill each other." (Infantile-Victim.)
"So what did you do? Did you reply?"
She laughed like I was crazy. "No."

I was on the beach this morning and talked to a couple of twenty-somethings who were obviously together. An LII male and a pretty EIE female. Did I tell them anything about their future? No.

I did tell my ILI buddy about them. He said "Youth is when you make your mistakes!"
In other words, in ILI fashion, "Who gives a fuck? Kill them all and let God sort them out."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

I was on the beach this morning and talked to a couple of twenty-somethings who were obviously together. An LII male and a pretty EIE female. Did I tell them anything about their future? No.

---

Your idea is that any relationship but duality is doomed to failure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rebelondeck

Semi-duals tends to have slightly more in common than one's dual. What one desires (commonality, understanding) most often wins out over what one needs (complementary, helpfulness), and of course, the hotter one usually wins unless that person is a complete idiot. I wouldn't call such competition sneaky.

a.k.a. I/O

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skosh

Semi-duals are compelling because they meet your basic needs while sharing those commonalities. They can be very hard to resist. What's sneaky is their entering a space of duality they have no business entering. They masquerade as meeting those basic needs to give you the familiarity your dual provides you. This may even become an obsession between semi-duals, which perhaps explains why they often view each other as arrogant and/or condescending.

---

If you have, strangely, complimented your semi-dual's lead they may then pressure you to compliment their creative. In that scenario, semiduals annoy.

I might be wrong but complimenting your semi dual's creative requires you to use your polr..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

Your idea is that any relationship but duality is doomed to failure?

---

No, that isn't my idea. But I believe that any relationship outside of Duality is sub-optimal. Which is not to say that all Dual relationships are optimal. Some people are very screwed up, and there can be huge mismatches in intelligence, backgrounds, expectations, mental health, etc. But starting with Duality removes a bunch of potential restrictions on how good the relationship can be.

But what if you think your dual is generally a sub-optimal life partner?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

No, that isn't my idea. But I believe that any relationship outside of Duality is sub-optimal. Which is not to say that all Dual relationships are optimal. Some people are very screwed up, and there can be huge mismatches in intelligence, backgrounds, expectations, mental health, etc. But starting with Duality removes a bunch of potential restrictions on how good the relationship can be.

---

So would you say it’s a mistake to date a non-dual? That’s how I read your post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

So would you say it’s a mistake to date a non-dual? That’s how I read your post.

---

It depends on whether you are dating for the long-term or dating for entertainment. I've done both.

Right now, I'm dating for the long run, so I'm limiting myself to dating Duals. This is not a hardship. There are many more ESIs than there are LIEs. The main problem is that ESIs look at an LIE and just see someone who is very different from them and therefore don't consider dating them. These ESIs are more likely to date other ESIs, or someone close to them at the Socionics round table. The ESIs who already know LIEs are probably married to one.

I'd say that you can date whomever you want, if you are willing to accept what you get. When I was married to an SLI-Te, I got someone who was good at saving money and giving concrete care to children, and was not that emotionally available.

When I travel with an ILI buddy for entertainment, I get a guy who is a superb trip planner a person whom I only rarely want to strangle.

But for a long-term partner, I want someone who covers all of my weaknesses and appreciates all my strengths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

But what if you think your dual is generally a sub-optimal life partner?

---

Are you talking in terms of an individual being sub-optimal, or the entire class of your Duals?

If the former, I wouldn't date them. If the latter, I'd try to get a better understanding of why Duals are supposed to be the best match, and then I'd see if those arguments make sense for my situation. If they don't, then off to the next type I'd go. Or to someone who has exactly whatever it is that I am looking for, other than Duality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Are you talking in terms of an individual being sub-optimal, or the entire class of your Duals?

If the former, I wouldn't date them. If the latter, I'd try to get a better understanding of why Duals are supposed to be the best match, and then I'd see if those arguments make sense for my situation. If they don't, then off to the next type I'd go. Or to someone who has exactly whatever it is that I am looking for, other than Duality.

---

I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together. I’m sure they exist, it’s just that I’ve never met one. I love ILEs and think they’re great and everything, but I generally prefer the rationality of LIIs and think they’re better suited for family life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together. I’m sure they exist, it’s just that I’ve never met one. I love ILEs and think they’re great and everything, but I generally prefer the rationality of LIIs and think they’re better suited for family life.

---

I know three male ILEs really well, two less well, and two more almost not at all, and I absolutely agree with you.

I asked the three guys I know well when they are going to get married (they are about 40) and they say "I'll settle down when I'm worn out. Maybe when I'm fifty." But they basically mean "never". And "when they are worn out"? WTF?

Two guys married IEIs, and one married an IEE, and all of their marriages imploded when the kids were early teens. As far as I can tell, the problem was that the wife was paying more attention to the real kids than the kid she married. Or that the guy was self-centered and irresponsible with kids.

One guy married a Dual and they seem OK, although she works and he plays around the house, again like a little kid. A lot of the success of that marriage depends on the SEI being super-caregiverish.

The last guy seems almost SLE-like and has a good job on a military base and he says he thanks god every day that he's married to a great woman. I haven't met her. His is the only marriage or relationship which seems like it's between two mature adults. He's also incredibly good-looking, like many SLEs, but he still has Ne rather than Ni.

But @Poptart, I also know fifteen LIIs, all but one married, and I think there's only one in the group with children. Actually, with one child, and that kid has autism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together. I’m sure they exist, it’s just that I’ve never met one. I love ILEs and think they’re great and everything, but I generally prefer the rationality of LIIs and think they’re better suited for family life.

---

Yeah. My literal shit tends not to be very varied. Anyway, I think the standardized gamma measures in society makes me want to hang myself from the spaghetti strand. I think I don't want any sort of family because it means zombiefying myself in order to actually to keep cash flowing on a stable rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together. I’m sure they exist, it’s just that I’ve never met one. I love ILEs and think they’re great and everything, but I generally prefer the rationality of LIIs and think they’re better suited for family life.

---

Don't take this the wrong way, cause what you're saying makes sense, but it sounds like you're looking for security or someone who can be controlled rather than somebody with whom you can share a mental bond with. Not saying you are, cause wtf do I know, right? Either way, its your life. You do you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96

Yeah. My literal shit tends not to be very varied. Anyway, I think the standardized gamma measures in society makes me want to hang myself from the spaghetti strand. I think I don't want any sort of family because it means zombiefying myself in order to actually to keep cash flowing on a stable rate.

---

@BrightDemonSheep96, I totally get this.

I was in an Alpha restaurant (fresh food, interestingly presented, with wonderful flavors and not expensive), and an entire group of Alphas came in and occupied a couple tables and the searchlight smiles and hugs all around and the loud, brilliant laughter and open expressions of concern and the generally ultra-happy and cheerful atmosphere they generated made me want to kill myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

Don't take this the wrong way, cause what you're saying makes sense, but it sounds like you're looking for security or someone who can be controlled rather than somebody with whom you can share a mental bond with. Not saying you are, cause wtf do I know, right? Either way, its your life. You do you

---

I am looking for security only because I want to have kids soon, and I think it’s important to provide children with a stable home life.

I don’t see why you think I’m looking for someone that I can control. In fact, I think I’m looking for the opposite. If I chose to date an ILE, I would feel the need to pressure him into getting his act together—something which I don’t want to do :)

I feel like my mental connection with LIIs is just as good as with ILEs. I also have an ILE brother and an ILE dad, so I kind of feel like I have enough ILEs in my life lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

I am looking for security only because I want to have kids soon, and I think it’s important to provide children with a stable home life.

I don’t see why you think I’m looking for someone that I can control. In fact, I think I’m looking for the opposite. If I chose to date an ILE, I would feel the need to pressure him into getting his act together—something which I don’t want to do :)

I feel like my mental connection with LIIs is just as good as with ILEs. I also have an ILE brother and an ILE dad, so I kind of feel like I have enough ILEs in my life lol.

---

I find this curious because one of the results I've seen of having close dual family members is a sense that you don't "need" them. My ESI-Se cousin grew up with an LIE-Ni brother that was basically his twin in age and an EIE-Ni dad who was very LIE-like, and whom did he end up marrying? An IEI-Fe.

This is something that could be relevant to skosh's point, because a person can get overly familiar with their dual and think it's boring over time. There is a very attractive chemistry with your semi-dual, even though this can go to hogwash when you actually get together - thus revealing the value of the dual.

With regard to the appeal of LIIs though, the happiest marriage I know is an activity marriage, so... I completely understand the thought process. That as well can very much be worthwhile. Who knows, after my swearing off Activity due to crappy experiences, I still might end up with one because they are just that great to be with.

Well, semi-duals have a lot of natural affection. It's kinda like the most purest love relationship tbh. People like it a lot for this reason.

Duality is more mechanical and kind of less emotional. Especially for me, because a thinking type is my dual but another feeling type is my semi-dual. However thinking types have also reported this feeling of love and affection.

I would say duality is deeper, and doesn't start nowhere near as good but has more potential to evolve into something better. Semi-dual's early game is a lot better- but the growth is more limited because your hidden agenda function (something that naturally grows as a subconscious thing in the background) is the other's vulnerable function/path of least of resistance. So it's like you're always kind of annoying each other in the way and not doing anything about because it's a very subtle over time type thing - even though there is still all that flowery heaps of love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

I am looking for security only because I want to have kids soon, and I think it’s important to provide children with a stable home life.

I don’t see why you think I’m looking for someone that I can control. In fact, I think I’m looking for the opposite. If I chose to date an ILE, I would feel the need to pressure him into getting his act together—something which I don’t want to do :)

I feel like my mental connection with LIIs is just as good as with ILEs. I also have an ILE brother and an ILE dad, so I kind of feel like I have enough ILEs in my life lol.

---

Ij temperament tends to be stable, reliable, "predictable" & cut the BS. That can make easy to kind of put in a sort of a box due to their commitment to what they believe is imperative.

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...8-Temperaments

Generally irrationals resist structure while rationals kinda prefer it. Then again, my take aint relevant. If being with LII is for you, f*ck my opinion

@BrightDemonSheep96 @FreelancePoliceman

You're both totally right! I was literally just about to comment how I don't feel this way at all about my Semi-Dual, but it perfectly describes my relationship to my Mirage! I always hit it off immediately when I meet new ILEs. I don't think that ever hasn't been the case for me. They're the easiest type to recognize for me too. Like I feel like I have a sixth sense that just detects nearby ILEs lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together.

---

Lol yeahhhh I can't say that any of my ILE friends "have their shit together." They're still like my favourite people to hang with though. Actually my brother's pretty well put-together and he's ILE. He seems to not feel like he has things under control, but from my perspective he seems much more stable than most ILEs do. I originally thought he was SLE actually and he has a lot of SLE qualities, but he's definitely Ne-lead

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

The last guy seems almost SLE-like and has a good job on a military base and he says he thanks god every day that he's married to a great woman. I haven't met her. His is the only marriage or relationship which seems like it's between two mature adults. He's also incredibly good-looking, like many SLEs, but he still has Ne rather than Ni.

---

Yeah as I commented to Poptart, my brother is an SLE-ish ILE and he seems way more put-together than most ILEs I know. I bet that's a trend that the ones who seem more like SLEs have their life together a little better. I wonder if I beta-fied him cause he's four years younger than me and we always shared a room growing up and talk endlessly about life

I've seen this too, but a dual pair of worth is not going to fall apart for a semi-dual

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

I know three male ILEs really well, two less well, and two more almost not at all, and I absolutely agree with you.

I asked the three guys I know well when they are going to get married (they are about 40) and they say "I'll settle down when I'm worn out. Maybe when I'm fifty." But they basically mean "never". And "when they are worn out"? WTF?

Two guys married IEIs, and one married an IEE, and all of their marriages imploded when the kids were early teens. As far as I can tell, the problem was that the wife was paying more attention to the real kids than the kid she married. Or that the guy was self-centered and irresponsible with kids.

One guy married a Dual and they seem OK, although she works and he plays around the house, again like a little kid. A lot of the success of that marriage depends on the SEI being super-caregiverish.

The last guy seems almost SLE-like and has a good job on a military base and he says he thanks god every day that he's married to a great woman. I haven't met her. His is the only marriage or relationship which seems like it's between two mature adults. He's also incredibly good-looking, like many SLEs, but he still has Ne rather than Ni.

But @Poptart, I also know fifteen LIIs, all but one married, and I think there's only one in the group with children. Actually, with one child, and that kid has autism.

---

What about male SLEs? I worry that most will not be faithful or keen to commit. This doesn't seem to be the case with females.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chocolatte

What about male SLEs? I worry that most will not be faithful or keen to commit. This doesn't seem to be the case with females.

---

I know five straight SLEs for sure, and one gay one.

The gay one is about 23 and seems like he would not be faithful, but that's just my impression. Of the remaining five,

DC is SLE-Ti and ex-Air Force and single after his main GF cheated on him and left him. He's extremely faithful.

LP is SLE-Se and was married but didn't like his wife and cheated on her and she was frail and died. He's been with at least three women in the past two years. I doubt if he'd be at all faithful to anyone.

MR is SLE-0 and a very old friend (since first grade) and a landlord and a little-league baseball coach. He's never been married, but he met an IEI-0 five years ago and they've been constant, happy companions. When I first met his IEI GF, I told her that MR's biggest problem might be that he'd cheat on her. He laughed and said "I could see that." She was not happy, so I told him that his GF was an extremely rare kind of person and there was just about no chance he'd meet another woman who'd be as concerned about him as she was. He thought about that but didn't say anything, and he's been with her ever since. I don't think he's ever going to cheat. She really looks out for him.

MW is an SLE-Se and he's served ten years in Jackson prison for armed robbery, but he's a basically decent guy who really doesn't understand why he does what he does. Actually, he looks scary as fuck. He's not afraid of anything that I've ever seen, including police who try to hassle him, but he does care about being treated fairly. Really, if you saw this guy coming down the street, you'd cross the street to avoid him. Ten years surviving in Jackson and lifting weights has made him look like he'd kill you without a thought if he happened to be having a slightly bad day. He's never been married, but he has a GF and some kids. I don't know if his kids are all by one woman or not, but he's devoted to them. If he ever cheated, it would be because he wasn't happy in his relationship and wouldn't know any other way to get out of it. He doesn't talk much.

MF is an SLE-Ti and has a job in a manufacturing plant. He's married, but he's also kind of worshiping an IEI that I've dated. She won't go near him because he's married, but other than that, she gets along with him really, really well. I get the impression that he would not cheat on his wife, probably. Unless the IEI said Yes. But maybe not even then. It's hard to tell. I think he looks at the IEI as a huge step up, and would treat her well if she were willing, which she is not.

When did this turn into a thread about ILE/SLEs being Peter Pan? :bunny:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

When did this turn into a thread about ILE/SLEs being Peter Pan? :bunny:

---

Bruh

I get on well with semi-duals and would be happy to settle down with one, have a kid etc. I do think I have some negative bias towards them because I have known quite a few and my siblings are my semi-duals and I can feel quite annoyed with these people at times. However, there are some very pretty SEEs out there who would be great for a fling or short to long term romance. Also I’m sure there are some semi-duals who I’d get on better with than I do with my semi-dual friends and siblings, and who would be long term relationship material. Finding one is the trick. When it comes to the top ITR for relationships, I think that a handful of them have something unique to offer and have the potential to provide long-lasting fulfilment or stability.

I also get along well with semi-duals. The cause of most ITR still-births or failures is personal baggage originating from environmental conditioning, traumatic events and/or upbringing. Type differences rarely cause failures even though they create divergent goals, approaches, methods and measures of success. All type combinations can peacefully coexist given the right set of circumstances. Prospects for a partner would be severely restricted if a particular type with(out) particular baggage was sought. The attraction of two people can most often be attributed to animalistic drives but a significant number are drawn into relationships because of perceived benefits other than actual love. I recommend to use type only as an aid to help understand people – and not as a search engine.

a.k.a. I/O

I think the point is getting lost that everybody is a semi-dual to somebody so it's not to dismiss any type relation. If a dual pair is on good terms, but is confronted with a meddling semi-dual, how anxious should the one dual partner be? I just find it difficult to choose a semi-dual over a perfectly suitable dual partner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

When did this turn into a thread about ILE/SLEs being Peter Pan? :bunny:

---

I guess your duals just don't trust you =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skosh

..... If a dual pair is on good terms, but is confronted with a meddling semi-dual, how anxious should the one dual partner be? .........

---

All other considerations equal, dual partnerships tend to lose out to semi-dual ones, especially early on in the relationships.

a.k.a. I/O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chocolatte

I guess your duals just don't trust you =P

---

Apparently that's why I'm a stray cat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rebelondeck

All other considerations equal, dual partnerships tend to lose out to semi-dual ones, especially early on in the relationships.

a.k.a. I/O

---

Source?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rebelondeck

All other considerations equal, dual partnerships tend to lose out to semi-dual ones, especially early on in the relationships.

a.k.a. I/O

---

Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Just like you can pass by your dual as someone uninteresting or a 'shadow', you could easily pass up on your semi-dual and not give it a second thought. That especially applies if you're in a committed relationship with your dual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

.....Source?

---

Simply because they seem a little more familiar than do duals. Duals, being on opposite sides of the coin, often come across as too foreign to be tolerated; they do grow on you but bridging that gap usually takes far more time than it does with semi-duals.

a.k.a. I/O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rebelondeck

The cause of most ITR still-births or failures is personal baggage originating from environmental conditioning, traumatic events and/or upbringing. Type differences rarely cause failures even though they create divergent goals, approaches, methods and measures of success. All type combinations can peacefully coexist given the right set of circumstances.

---

What about the people with conflictor parents?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rivka

What about the people with conflictor parents?

---

They aren't the worst and I've seen them last. I guess mature partners agree to disagree and help each other when they can. If there's war between them, I'd first look for other causes; I can see type exacerbating a problem but not being the root cause.

a.k.a. I/O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poptart

I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together. I’m sure they exist, it’s just that I’ve never met one. I love ILEs and think they’re great and everything, but I generally prefer the rationality of LIIs and think they’re better suited for family life.

---

I was half shooting shit with you

Truth is, the duals I've met get idealistic. I'm no babysitter, especially not for an insular Ni-dom. IEI are cool but drive me to drink a lot. Cause of that, I have fun with SEIs. Was in the middle of a beer. Figured I shouldn't be a hypocrite. Not saying you were, obviously

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

IEI are cool but drive me to drink a lot.

---

How is that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

How is that?

---

IEI are like driving a gnarly '69 Dodge Charger. Runs decent, gorgeous. but smells like marijuana

My theory is if an IEI had shit guidance growing up, their coping skills will be absolute shit They'll seek advice, fuck up then go to the same type of motherfucker for advice. They fuck up & still don't understand why their life is garbage. So yeah. I keep Jack Daniels in business

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

IEI are like driving a gnarly '69 Dodge Charger. Runs decent, gorgeous. but smells like marijuana

My theory is if an IEI had shit guidance growing up, their coing skills will be absolute shit They'll seek advice, fuck up then go to the same type of motherfucker for advice. They fuck up & still don't understand why their life is garbage. So yeah. I keep Jack Daniels in business

---

Have you interacted with so many? Or were you in a relationship with one?

But yeah, I understand what you mean. Their compatibility with SLEs actually surprises me sometimes when I think about it, given how most SLEs don't seem to have much patience for people they think are stupid, and IEI are not...really inclined to make the best of decisions in my experience. It seems like IEIs would have issues with SLEs as well. Objectively I guess all dual pairs are quite different, but that one just seems weird for me to think about for some reason.

What tends to confuse me about IEIs is the lack of T, I think. They appear to have these deep thoughts, sense some underlying meaning to things, and give an impression of intelligence, but when you ask them to explain their thoughts, your impression of all this evaporates into the wind. Weirdly, EIEs tend to give me more of an impression of T-ness and a more..."structured" thought process, I guess, when they talk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

IEI are like driving a gnarly '69 Dodge Charger. Runs decent, gorgeous. but smells like marijuana

---

I like your car analogy.

I had a '66 Jaguar E-type that was like a beautiful but capricious woman. When it worked, it was sex on wheels, but it was incredibly unreliable. I could take it out easily enough, but I'd never know who'd be taking it home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

Have you interacted with so many? Or were you in a relationship with one?

But yeah, I understand what you mean. Their compatibility with SLEs actually surprises me sometimes when I think about it, given how most SLEs don't seem to have much patience for people they think are stupid, and IEI are not...really inclined to make the best of decisions in my experience. It seems like IEIs would have issues with SLEs as well. Objectively I guess all dual pairs are quite different, but that one just seems weird for me to think about for some reason.

What tends to confuse me about IEIs is the lack of T, I think. They appear to have these deep thoughts, sense some underlying meaning to things, and give an impression of intelligence, but when you ask them to explain their thoughts, your impression of all this evaporates into the wind. Weirdly, EIEs tend to give me more of an impression of T-ness and a more..."structured" thought process, I guess, when they talk.

---

Nah. Through college & diff jobs, I've dated IEIs. Some were.college grads, some were "altruistic" behavioral analysts, others were sheltered neophytes. I mean, the thing about IEI is that they can be very much Jekyll & Hyde. A good archetype for IEI is Harley Quinn. IEI, to me are like Harleen Quinzel with a Harley Quinn alter ego. They like to make an impact in their version of reality but such an impact ain't always a rational one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

Have you interacted with so many? Or were you in a relationship with one?

But yeah, I understand what you mean. Their compatibility with SLEs actually surprises me sometimes when I think about it, given how most SLEs don't seem to have much patience for people they think are stupid, and IEI are not...really inclined to make the best of decisions in my experience. It seems like IEIs would have issues with SLEs as well. Objectively I guess all dual pairs are quite different, but that one just seems weird for me to think about for some reason.

What tends to confuse me about IEIs is the lack of T, I think. They appear to have these deep thoughts, sense some underlying meaning to things, and give an impression of intelligence, but when you ask them to explain their thoughts, your impression of all this evaporates into the wind. Weirdly, EIEs tend to give me more of an impression of T-ness and a more..."structured" thought process, I guess, when they talk.

---

Surely it depends on the IEI. I’ve only met a few IEIs but two stand out to me as very well-adjusted and well-balanced people. They are both high school teachers and settled down with their partners at a young age (mid twenties). I’m pretty sure they’d be quite confident explaining their opinions at a dinner party or at a social gathering with their friends or colleagues. I think they both keep up with current affairs. They do seem
a bit EIE-ish in a way.

And the ones who aren’t so well-adjusted? I’m not. But in the hard times I have found solace in building a sense of identity of being a good person, my values (which yes are hard to explain) kept me going, and they’ll be what keeps me going and coping with the challenges that are ahead.

I could say the same about ESI. That some of them talk nonsense and can be hysterical in their reasoning processes..but then there are some I could have a really interesting discussion with (maybe a short but very interesting discussion) and even one, a uni friend, who I got on with well, whose thought processes didn’t seem entirely different to my own. (I just led the discussions).

edit: nonsense is a harsh word and actually it’s probably more that I feel unable to follow their line of thought.

Also what I do have to offer an SLE or a potential partner? I don’t judge them for their inconsistent values they’re bound to have, because I know people don’t care about the purity of their values as much as I do lol. I feel blessed to be able to be able to form such values, and I don’t expect my partner to do the same. And they will appreciate that. Of course, I get mad at people sometimes for their lack of strong values but deep down I’m always trying to understand these people or appreciate them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skosh

I've noticed semi-duals can easily get between a dual pair. They can seem rather oblivious, unaware of what they're getting into, but self-assured enough to cause trouble. One may find themselves completely disoriented in a world where your dual appears to choose someone else over you. There's really no way to prepare for it. You can definitely handle it, but you can't really predict it. I guess my question is should a dual partner on reasonably good terms with the other fear those sneaky semi-duals? Can semi-duals really be better than your dual?

---

This basically shouldn't happen, and probably reflects people being typed wrong. Semi-duality is fairly limited beyond surface interactions, falls dead in the water once the Mobilizing's urges come to fore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mfckrz

This basically shouldn't happen, and probably reflects people being typed wrong. Semi-duality is fairly limited beyond surface interactions, falls dead in the water once the Mobilizing's urges come to fore.

---

This has been my experience, and it’s exacerbated by creative subtypes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skosh

If a dual pair is on good terms, but is confronted with a meddling semi-dual, how anxious should the one dual partner be? I just find it difficult to choose a semi-dual over a perfectly suitable dual partner.

---

What do you mean by being on good terms? They know each other and they are friends? Do they have romantic relationship? Did they get attracted from each other before semidual joined the picture?

I have seen over and over again rational types choosing their semi-dual over their dual. Semidual relationships as other relationships cannot be replaced by duality.

There are lots of factors that affects attraction. Attraction isn't necessarily related to companionship hence people don't choose the person who is perfectly compatible with them. When attraction is too high, it even blinds people's reasoning and gut feeling. I have met with EIEs that are more compatible with me and some who are not. I was highly attracted to those who are not that compatible. Unfortunately some spesific things that I find annoying draw me into them more because those spesific things actually lead to increase attraction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skosh

Semi-duals are compelling because they meet your basic needs while sharing those commonalities. They can be very hard to resist. What's sneaky is their entering a space of duality they have no business entering. They masquerade as meeting those basic needs to give you the familiarity your dual provides you. This may even become an obsession between semi-duals, which perhaps explains why they often view each other as arrogant and/or condescending.

---

I don't think each partner see their semidual as arrogant and/or condescending. For examples, IEEs generally don't see SEIs that way, however, rational types may feel as you described.

I personally don't think any one type has their s**t completely together. We all have PoLR and DS functions, we all have problems.

Externally maybe having money and a stable job and a stable environment may look more together than someone who wants to switch up their life and move around a lot and explore and not care so much about status or money, but the first person might be highly depressed and hate their life and the second person might be having fun and having a more positive outlook.

Of course someone who abuses drugs or frivolously spends money or decides that they don't want to grow as a person doesn't really have their stuff together.

Maturity (the stereotypical maturity) is highly overrated by the populace as they want you to act practical and efficient even when you aren't very practical or efficient at working. Maturity in the practical sense should be thrown out the window as everyone has their own path to real maturity, it's a lifelong process of figuring out who you are and what you want and avoiding obviously bad decisions and toxic people and being able to be independent of others.

ILEs are really just seeking the best logical options out there to maximize the enjoyment they will get out of life. They don't care about practicality or efficiency because as long as they do something they love to do and have enough money to feel comfortable they don't really give two poops what others say. They will maximize the enjoyment their kids can get out of life, they won't force them to do something they hate just for some societal or "practical and efficient" reason.

Personally @Poptart I don't think activity is a bad relation, but I will say that I believe a environment where both partners love and trust each other, don't do anything terribly, unfathomably stupid, and are able to have fun together and communicate well is better than a stable environment.

There are ILEs who really want to have kids and who actually care how their kids are raised. For example: "We shouldn't let our kids touch electronics because then they won't study effectively. We should feed our kids only the healthiest foods so they grow big and strong. We shouldn't pressure them into doing something that they don't want to do, we should observe them and then give them the opportunities to do whatever they want to do in life. I'm totally ready once I get a job to have kids, I will make enough money for it. I can help them learn Math and Science and you can help them with English and History."

Maybe consider searching around a little more for an ILE who wants kids?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness

Maturity (the stereotypical maturity) is highly overrated by the populace as they want you to act practical and efficient even when you aren't very practical or efficient at working. Maturity in the practical sense should be thrown out the window as everyone has their own path to real maturity, it's a lifelong process of figuring out who you are and what you want and avoiding obviously bad decisions and toxic people and being able to be independent of others.

...

Personally @Poptart I don't think activity is a bad relation, but I will say that I believe a environment where both partners love and trust each other, don't do anything terribly, unfathomably stupid, and are able to have fun together and communicate well is better than a stable environment.

---

I agree completely. Life would be unbearable if you had to take it completely seriously. Maturity doesn’t consist in treating life seriously, but as you said, trying to minimize doing anything completely stupid, and in knowing what one wants (and acting accordingly). I think it’s good for people to come to their own understandings with the world, and also for people to generally respect the understandings of others, since this has more to do with personal inclination than in objective knowledge. If ILEs tend to take a more relaxed attitude toward life, I don’t see this as necessarily a problem or a sign of immaturity.

Obviously there are some ILEs who are immature, irresponsible, or treat people badly, but @Poptart , if that’s your only impression of the type, I wonder if you’re being a little hasty in your judgement.

I’ve known other SEIs, and more rarely SLIs, to take a dim view of Ne. I’ve not known any other type to be so negative about their suggestive function, so this has confused me. My best guess, from what I’ve picked up, is that they feel afraid of a one-sided relationship, where they’ll have to take care of the Ne type like an actual child to prevent them from constantly making a mess. If I were to go further in guessing I’d guess that they feel so afraid of this dynamic because exposure to Ne triggers “caretaking” tendencies in them, and because high Ne tends to seem unusual or “weird” (maybe it actually is relatively rare; who knows), the SXI usually doesn’t have an idea of what mature Ne people are like, or how they can be mature when they act so “weird.” So with this image that Ne people are terminally infantile, their own “caretaking” tendencies alarm them, especially if Ne types play up their Ne in response to the SXI’s Si. If any SEIs or SLIs could weigh in on this I’d be interested.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

I’ve known other SEIs, and more rarely SLIs, to take a dim view of Ne. I’ve not known any other type to be so negative about their suggestive function, so this has confused me. My best guess, from what I’ve picked up, is that they feel afraid of a one-sided relationship, where they’ll have to take care of the Ne type like an actual child to prevent them from constantly making a mess. If I were to go further in guessing I’d guess that they feel so afraid of this dynamic because exposure to Ne triggers “caretaking” tendencies in them, and because high Ne tends to seem unusual or “weird” (maybe it actually is relatively rare; who knows), the SXI usually doesn’t have an idea of what mature Ne people are like, or how they can be mature when they act so “weird.” So with this image that Ne people are terminally infantile, their own “caretaking” tendencies alarm them, especially if Ne types play up their Ne in response to the SXI’s Si. If any SEIs or SLIs could weigh in on this I’d be interested.

---

ehhhhh this may be unpopular but this is my perspective and experience.

High Ne users can be unpredictable to the point it makes me question a serious relationship with them at times. It doesn't bug me when it's their own stuff in life but, I find it an issue when it involves me. I feel like I can't trust their word at times because I don't know if they are going to change their mind of if they are seriously going to follow through. Is it just air or is it a promise? When I assume either, they get upset. When I have no expectations or it doesn't involve me, it's fine. If it affects me, I need to know I have someone I can count on and not have to worry about the clouds.

Care-taking doesn't bug me in general and in relaxed atmospheres. Care taking in every aspect of a romantic relationship, yeah, I am not going to deal with that. Does it come out with high Ne users? Yes, more so then others. Still, I don't want a child as a partner where I am always expected to clean up their messes. That's not a partner to me. I don't like being serious. I am not above acting like a little kid and I love to be free to just dance on the street and be carefree. I try to keep my freedom high and my responsibilities low but, I do take my responsibilities seriously. I consider a close relationship as one of them. I just don't want a partner that never gets serious. It is not that high Ne users can't take anything seriously. I just find that I find it hard to get them to takes things seriously and to rely on them consistently without them getting annoyed about it and it not affecting me negatively. I want a partner that I can care about and be childish with sometimes. I will not mommy my partner. They have their freedom. I have my freedom too and with that I may choose to not want a lot of unpredictability and care-taking in a partner.

This may not be all Ne users mind you. This is purely my perspective and take on it with having been around some high Ne users.
I have this perspective with high Se users as well, just less so in comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissDucki

ehhhhh this may be unpopular but this is my perspective and experience.

High Ne users can be unpredictable to the point it makes me question a serious relationship with them at times. It doesn't bug me when it's their own stuff in life but, I find it an issue when it involves me. I feel like I can't trust their word at times because I don't know if they are going to change their mind of if they are seriously going to follow through. Is it just air or is it a promise? When I assume either, they get upset. When I have no expectations or it doesn't involve me, it's fine. If it affects me, I need to know I have someone I can count on and not have to worry about the clouds.

Care-taking doesn't bug me in general and in relaxed atmospheres. Care taking in every aspect of a romantic relationship, yeah, I am not going to deal with that. Does it come out with high Ne users? Yes, more so then others. Still, I don't want a child as a partner where I am always expected to clean up their messes. That's not a partner to me. I don't like being serious. I am not above acting like a little kid and I love to be free to just dance on the street and be carefree. I try to keep my freedom high and my responsibilities low but, I do take my responsibilities seriously. I consider a close relationship as one of them. I just don't want a partner that never gets serious. It is not that high Ne users can't take anything seriously. I just find that I find it hard to get them to takes things seriously and to rely on them consistently without them getting annoyed about it and it not affecting me negatively. I want a partner that I can care about and be childish with sometimes. I will not mommy my partner. They have their freedom. I have my freedom too and with that I may choose to not want a lot of unpredictability and care-taking in a partner.

This may not be all Ne users mind you. This is purely my perspective and take on it with having been around some high Ne users.
I have this perspective with high Se users as well, just less so in comparison.

---

Well, you have numerous factoring at stake here.

You are an enneagram 6, so your need for stability and reassurance of consistency is far more pronounced than typical Si base. You also have to factor in health level. Then the nene type as well. Take an ILE or IEE enneagram type 7, versus an IEE enne4. They are not to conflate.

Your own childhood and conditioning can be contributing.

I think duality can be overrated anyhow, but you are not looking at all aspect, just one facet.

There are some IEE-Fi and ILE-Ti who can be far more grounded, and they are contact type, I believe. IEE is going to be more grounded because of the Te, in spite of ILE having a logical creative.

Account for psychopathology; ADHD, ADD, etc. Level of health and restraint, maturity. It is not uniform. I am not an Ne base (Pe), and I am immature for my age, but it is stemming from trauma and psychopathology.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karanime

Well, you have numerous factoring at stake here.

You are an enneagram 6, so your need for stability and reassurance of consistency is far more pronounced than typical Si base. You also have to factor in health level. Then the nene type as well. Take an ILE or IEE enneagram type 7, versus an IEE enne4. They are not to conflate.

Your own childhood and conditioning can be contributing.

I think duality can be overrated anyhow, but you are not looking at all aspect, just one facet.

---

Fair, I will give you that. Stability is extremely important to me and I am a Sp dom. I couldn't be with an ILE 7 or an IEE 4 personally. I may be commenting on one aspect of the Ne dom but that aspect is what makes me the most wary. If I was around a healthy ILE SP that can give me stability, I will change my tune. For now, that has been my experience.

Edit: Just want to say, not that all can't or won't be predictable or reliable, I am sure there is. There are a lot of positive aspects to Ne doms I do like, just that one con does impact me the most.

@MissDucki

Wrt Ne being “unpredictable,” I think Ne people, especially Ne bases, prefer to keep an attitude of “experimentation” and like to keep their options open. I think they can generally be counted on for general ideas, but they don’t like being held to specifics. I think one could say “I’ll take care of the kids tomorrow — we’ll go to the park,” but the next day take them out to eat fried chicken instead. If their partner were to get angry at them for this, the Ne person would probably feel upset in turn, thinking something like “I said I’d take care of the children! That’s the important part; the children are fed and taken care of and happy -- what’s the big deal?”

Another problem which maybe you’ve experienced is that ILE and to a lesser extent some LIIs’ sense of humor mostly consists in people being taken off guard. To see a partner constantly confused is fun. It sounds bad, and I guess it is, or can be at least, but I don’t think most mean this in a mean-spirited way, if it makes a difference. I also don’t think they’d typically do this kind of thing with anything serious, like saying “I love you,” then “lol jk.” More there’s a tendency to tell unbelievable and stories and seeing how absurd they can make them before someone starts to question them. Or sometimes give serious-sounding absurd answers to questions that might be taken seriously for a few seconds.

The reason they’re often especially inclined to be this way with partners is I think because they have certain difficulties expressing themselves, and humor is a way to express a desire for closeness without actually saying that. They find humor in that kind of absurdity, and since SEIs (ESEs seem not to mind it) are so reactive and Fe-y, the idea is that they’ll laugh too. Even if the SEI has expressed discomfort with it before. And SEIs I think often mind this so much because they tend to feel insecure about a lot, including their intelligence, and feel that the ILE or LII is just taking advantage of them and treats them like an idiot. I’ve seen this happen a few times, including in my own relationship with an SEI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

@MissDucki

Wrt Ne being “unpredictable,” I think Ne people, especially Ne bases, prefer to keep an attitude of “experimentation” and like to keep their options open. I think they can generally be counted on for general ideas, but they don’t like being held to specifics. I think one could say “I’ll take care of the kids tomorrow — we’ll go to the park,” but the next day take them out to eat fried chicken instead. If their partner were to get angry at them for this, the Ne person would probably feel upset in turn, thinking something like “I said I’d take care of the children! That’s the important part; the children are fed and taken care of and happy -- what’s the big deal?”

Another problem which maybe you’ve experienced is that ILE and to a lesser extent some LIIs’ sense of humor mostly consists in people being taken off guard. To see a partner constantly confused is fun. It sounds bad, and I guess it is, or can be at least, but I don’t think most mean this in a mean-spirited way, if it makes a difference. I also don’t think they’d typically do this kind of thing with anything serious, like saying “I love you,” then “lol jk.” More there’s a tendency to tell unbelievable and stories and seeing how absurd they can make them before someone starts to question them. Or sometimes give serious-sounding absurd answers to questions that might be taken seriously for a few seconds.

The reason they’re often especially inclined to be this way with partners is I think because they have certain difficulties expressing themselves, and humor is a way to express a desire for closeness without actually saying that. They find humor in that kind of absurdity, and since SEIs (ESEs seem not to mind it) are so reactive and Fe-y, the idea is that they’ll laugh too. Even if the SEI has expressed discomfort with it before. And SEIs I think often mind this so much because they tend to feel insecure about a lot, including their intelligence, and feel that the ILE or LII is just taking advantage of them and treats them like an idiot. I’ve seen this happen a few times, including in my own relationship with an SEI.

---

I do understand, but at the same time I find it frustrating like probably may ILE's feel with me at some point. There will always be pro's and con's to each dominate function and it can be hard for each dual seeker.

ILE are big picture experimenters and don't always care about the details. This is great for a vision but it can suck in real life as they forget the details and the practicality to get to that vision. Missing those details can greatly screw with the vision. Not all the time but, it can. With your example, “I’ll take care of the kids tomorrow — we’ll go to the park,” but the next day take them out to eat fried chicken instead. If their partner were to get angry at them for this, the Ne person would probably feel upset in turn, thinking something like “I said I’d take care of the children! That’s the important part; what’s the big deal?”.
It bugs me greatly that one 'vision' was promised but was not followed through. I would rather not know the plan and make it on the go when the needs shown up rather then be given this vision, realistically plan, then it being thrown away. It takes time for me to build around it so I don't appreciate it. I would rather be told "I am taking the kids out" then "I am taking the kids out to the park". I don't have to plan or worry about the vision and the responsibility is being taken care of.

With the being taken off guard, I get it. I like being teased in all good fun. I like to poke fun too in good jest. I am also extremely reactionary too so I have learned to roll with the punches and laugh at it. I like it when it is in good fun, but there is a line when I starts getting too personal and I do start to question it. There are people that hide behind humor like that. If a line gets crossed by accident, it gets crossed. That doesn't bug me. It's afterward when I express it and they push the issue is when I get really upset. Not only are my feelings being trampled on but my intelligence as well which does not feel good. I don't think ILE or LII would appreciate me shaming them for their expressions or their desire for closeness after they expressed they were uncomfortable to begin with because that is how I view the equivalent.

This may not be every ILE and LII. These are my experiences. In small doses, these don't bug me. More so the continuation of such actions after I communicated that it does upset me. My biggest issue is continuous line crossing which is not fair. In that instance, I do feel taken advantage of and I would take that as my cue to leave. People are not perfect. Duality isn't perfect. I may understand the thought process and that it may be meant to not hurt, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't hurt. I think it's fair to say a person can only take certain things so much and may not want to put up with it, that's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

Another problem which maybe you’ve experienced is that ILE and to a lesser extent some LIIs’ sense of humor mostly consists in people being taken off guard. To see a partner constantly confused is fun. It sounds bad, and I guess it is, or can be at least, but I don’t think most mean this in a mean-spirited way, if it makes a difference.

---

Lol this is so true. I enjoy this type of humor. Sometimes I say stupid shit just to watch how people respond. Idk I’m probably an asshole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissDucki

ehhhhh this may be unpopular but this is my perspective and experience.

High Ne users can be unpredictable to the point it makes me question a serious relationship with them at times. It doesn't bug me when it's their own stuff in life but, I find it an issue when it involves me. I feel like I can't trust their word at times because I don't know if they are going to change their mind of if they are seriously going to follow through. Is it just air or is it a promise? When I assume either, they get upset. When I have no expectations or it doesn't involve me, it's fine. If it affects me, I need to know I have someone I can count on and not have to worry about the clouds.

---

In the initial stages of relationship, I prefer if things can be in an ambiguous state. Sometimes serious types (deltas also) state what they are looking for etc, to me that kills all the magic. What bothers me about my semiduals EIEs that they make sure that it is going on one direction and I understand that correctly, Ni-doms are more adaptable in this regard. So although they don't explicitly state it, they make sure that I know we are not friends, we like each other and this is a date and we are aiming for having a serious relationship. It make sense to make your intentions clear and there is no need to pretend if both people are into each other, these things also can be adorable. However, those kind of expectations creates a pressure, they are unrealistic considering that they want to be decisive about it without getting to know each other. Maybe I won't want to be with them, maybe they won't want to be with me. Hence, although the course of events can be unknown and unpredictable, having an ambiguous state keep things more light, chill and open in my perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myresearch

In the initial stages of relationship, I prefer if things can be in an ambiguous state. Sometimes serious types (deltas also) state what they are looking for etc, to me that kills all the magic. What bothers me about my semiduals EIEs that they make sure that it is going on one direction and I understand that correctly, Ni-doms are more adaptable in this regard. So although they don't explicitly state it, they make sure that I know we are not friends, we like each other and this is a date and we are aiming for having a serious relationship. It make sense to make your intentions clear and there is no need to pretend if both people are into each other, these things also can be adorable. However, those kind of expectations creates a pressure, they are unrealistic considering that they want to be decisive about it without getting to know each other. Maybe I won't want to be with them, maybe they won't want to be with me. Hence, although the course of events can be unknown and unpredictable, having an ambiguous state keep things more light, chill and open in my perspective.

---

Hmmmmm Maybe I should start questioning again if I am a Ni-dom :write:

I understand that. I really don't like guys who pursue me hard and try and direct it into a relationship right away. It scares me too. My closest friendships blossomed the best when there were no expectations.

I see why you guys prefer it and by no means do I want to stifle that. The last thing I want to do is force a future with someone or force a choice. Ne doms and Ne creatives are much more comfortable navigating the unknown and unpredictable and that is your guys strength. I wish I was better at it and I know how uncomfortable it can be for me at times to navigate it as it is a weakness for me. Due to this, I don't like to expect a future with anyone as you don't know and I find in painful to be 'promised'. I just think that Ne doms and Ne creatives already assume that people already understand that things can change and what they're saying isn't fact. They already know the facts from the clouds when that is not always the case. I don't assume until it is said so. I had a conversation with a Ne Dom as he is somebody who always assumes "yes" where I always assume "no" when it comes to life and ambiguity. If he always assumed yes with me, there would always be issues.

That's not to say that I don't love Ne doms natural talents. While Ne needs Si and vice versa, they are still polar opposites. Being too careful is not always great and it has limited me. I do need change and I always appreciate Ne doms for that. I think Ne doms appreciate my stability and realistic aspect at times. Just, I think I can also still state how it can negatively impact me at times (an others) from the other side of Ne. The same can be said of Si doms and how it can stifle the natural aspect of Ne and that can negatively impact others. The best is when both can meet in the middle where both natural strengths and weakness are covered. As of yet, I just haven't been able to meet one in the middle.

Hearing IEI speak is awesome. Hearing them worry is beastly cuz my Se Spidey sense gets wild & its fun as fuck.

That said, IEI can be really stupid sometimes. Investing in stupidity ain't with the stress.