:shock:Quote:
As a side note I may be 1E :P
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:shock:Quote:
As a side note I may be 1E :P
I'm leaning towards 1L for myself. The forer effect got to me I think when first reading descriptions, still considering tho, so take this pillar of salt to go with what follows: You know that interchange we had regarding Ne and openness? Yeah, I deleted my lecture I started to post, and just gave you information you could decide on for yourself instead. The way I look at it, you can assuage your own curiosity by looking for yourself. Like when I told you about Need for Cognition. If someone had mentioned that to me, I'd be off looking up all kinds of information on it. From my perspective, you looked closed, but I figured it was just a defensive reaction, and I didn't want to push. People tell me that I come across as attacking their ideas when that's not my intention at all. So, I find it's better sometimes just to drop the info and let them sort it out themselves. On the other hand, when someone asks me to explain something for them, I'm more than willing to do that. Dunno if my perspective helps here or not, but thought I'd add it anyway in case.
OK, I do not really provoke people to have logical arguments with me. I like to provoke reactions more than arguments tbh [oh, and I have gotten some sweet, nearly lethal reactions]. LOL. Neither Eric TwFP does it but he wants to show his balls of logic (through 2V). Banana King clearly has 2L.
Some people have typed me as ethical creative. Little do the know.
I think Bean Vasserlan (LII) typed himself as 3L, lol. I can see that. Was he 1V or 1F dunno? MB 1F.
I don't really understand this 1L lack of openness. If something is not true it is not true. Eh. I tend to be more puncturing than just spewing things out in the wilderness which I practice on my own. Like it is said 1# is the egocentric position. Someone said something about the frequency and units and then I mentioned that time units are almost always universally applied here on Earth so when it comes to 1/s or 1/h etc probably does not matter in this case. I usually make sure it works in the end. It is bit funny though because to me it is like chasing my own tail. 3# is the most closed off because usually it denies allocentric and egocentric presentations with compensation.
steals format but without the humor
1E - my mood determines my reality, i am my feelings, all emotion and intuitive perceptions trump all other perception
2L - i like debating, thinking/analyzing and am flexible with logic, albeit not always well because i'm an ethical type, but my Ti HA will always boost my confidence in the area :D
3V - will doesn't work well and is confused, but then is touchy about other people trying to impose their will in ways that feel like being made to be a servant, then i can become hostile
4F - feel utterly helpless to manage anything in the material world or my own health/body and am falling into the abyss of this failure
however, F is an area of confusion because for a while i was able to manage it on my own, while i was in college, though it was still being blindly managed... it was in a better balance then because i had complete control of my time. it started falling apart badly after i started trying to conform to work week schedules at draining jobs. the other thing that can always drag it down is my mood - F is sacrificed first if i'm in long term emotional turmoil.
I think it's the frequent attitude of (some) 1L that they always know what's true that bothers me. Not the idea that there IS truth.
Like if there is truth to be found, they know it and others aren't on their level yet. Even when they're clearly wrong (or don't have enough information to pass judgment) they can have this attitude.
I think this system is pretty much crap but the tests give me VFLE and I guess it fits the best, V and F are most likely in the two first slots and L can't be the in the last slot.
(me speculating, sue me I'm 2L)
Based on this you'd be ELFV not ELVF.
3 is the sore spot that hurts. Your sore spot seems F. Your V is just like mine ;D, you are 2L 4V like me kek..wtf
4th attitude is unconcerned. More like I'll deal with V when I absolutely have to. You don't deal with F when you have to.. its a sore spot so 3F.
:thinking: IF it stresses you out that much you'd be cleaning and overcompensating tho.. so its weird you are a mess in this regard. More like you don't care and persist in inactivity, which would be more 4F I guess... then again you'd deal with it when push comes to shove if it was 4th.. I'm thinking there is another reason why it isn't happening.
3F in a nutshell:
e_e how are you 3L tho? I always saw you confident in your thinking. Thinking is your sore spot like Kyana's? I agree with 4E for you, F imo is 1F.. you are an "owner" like me, go to the gym for the results not the process. "I want that car so I'll just get it." Seems like result F to me. I haven't seen you talk with others about personal health, giving advice, taking feedback, nor home decoration, aesthetics. :D you want to share your thoughts with me on healthy living and receive feedback? :) mr "fuck Si" ..2F my ass. Hmm.. maybe FVLE? Kyana is in contrast a VFLE or "fire-starter" <.< srsly wherever she is she starts a "fire".Quote:
The 3F function is formed by placing the physics aspect (F) into the insecure position (3rd). Insecure physics (3F) has an apprehensive and unsure attitude towards all concepts of the physical world. All 3F types are insufficient at being involved in matters relating to the material world. They are mostly anxious about their opinions on tastes, belongings, comforts, aesthetics and practical skills. These types tend to have a shaky and unstable relationship with how they process all things related to the physical reality. They tend to need clarification and feedback from others when engaging in all matters related to physics.
Still surprised thinking is a sore spot, I mean you don't seem to be like this:
I often found that you don't require clarification and feedback when it comes to logic and you are often dismissive thinking you already understand it better than other people.Quote:
The 3L attitude is formed by combining the logic aspect (L) with the insecure position (3rd). Insecure logic (3L) has an apprehensive and unsure attitude towards all logical concepts. All 3L types are insufficient at being involved in matters relating to the logical realm. They are mostly anxious about their opinions of higher knowledge, political arguments, scientific thought and their own abilities to reason. These types tend to have a shaky and unstable relationship with how they process and logically organize the world around them. They tend to need clarification and feedback from others when engaging in all matters related to logic.
1&4 th attitudes are result attitudes, they care about the result so conclusions are drawn fast, the deliberation process is very short with focus on beginning and end
2&3 are process attitudes, there is immersion in the process here, back and forth, constant change, information exchange. 2nd has natural back and forth flow, third has overcompensation for weakness, trying to hide it.
@shotgunfingers I can relate to aspects of 3F except for overcompensating, really I can relate to 3v/f and 4v/f. I guess 3F seemed too high maintenance. :(
o.o yeah.. hmm, you can disagree tho, it kind of depends why the overcompensating thing isn't happening. Maybe the weak V as well contributes to this? Like no motivation to change the 3F aspect, lack of drive.
As a 4V I often find I have no motivation until someone with 1V infects me with their drive without trying to push me. If I don't feel like doing something I'll just procrastinate..
Does this resonate?: https://www.attitudinalpsyche.com/tria/elfv/
EDIT: :thinking: I can see why ELVF makes more sense to you tho..
@inumbra
Tbh I'm sometimes confused and think 3V fits better tan 4V due to me getting realy angry if someone tells me what to do.. same as you.. but the rest of the description seems more muddled than something which would fit. I'm more easy going.
I should ask Zeke about this.
i mean really i have 3 weaknesses... L is weak as well, it's just "secure" and it's better than V or F so it goes to position 2 falsely.
Yeah, to start with I agree the 1F in FVLE could fit, but the descriptions of 2V and 3L in that type don't work very well for me. Like 2V "they wish for themselves and others to enjoy the journey of life even if it means venturing into the taboo" or 3L "not knowing how to explain the world gives them intense anxiety". However, 2F of wanting to endlessly discuss food or aesthetics isn't really me either, although I can discuss things like workout routines and health without getting bored.
This brings me to the problems I see with this system. It's just too boxed in and lacks nuance. It lumps the information elements together into only four elements that can contain self-contradicting items. It forces always exactly two of these to be result/process, strong/weak and passive/aggressive in a prescripted way. It doesn't make a distinction between strong/weak and valued/unvalued which is very important in my opinion. Take F for example, it contains things that would in socionics be called both Se and Si, but in socionics you're free to be strong in both but only value half of it. For example, I care about aesthetics of cars, buildings, the human body but I don't care nearly as much about things like food, clothing, comfort, home interior even if I have no problems taking care of these things when necessary. When it comes to L and E, there are similar problems. L contains elements of logical thinking but also creativity and intuition. Just because you aren't very interested in long-winded nerdy logical debates, philosophizing, brainstorming creative ideas etc. doesn't mean your logic is "weak". Your intuition could be weak and you might devalue one half of it, but that kind of forces your L to be in position 3/4 and the descriptions make it sound like you have problems with logic and understanding the world.
Really, I could see this system working better for NT and SF types because they have a clear preference of logic/intuition vs all kinds of sensing. Introverted ST types could have low V and get around the problem, but extroverted ST types would likely see themselves have strong V, F and L which isn't possible in this system. Then that easily forces L to be the weakest because it's more like an amalgam of Ti and Ne, while V and F are closer to together containing the essence of Te.
Now, you could say that there's no point mixing socionics into this, it's a different system. But I used the examples above to illustrate the problem that arises when you have only 4 very broad "information elements" and force them into three dichotomies. It's quick and dirty but it also creates endless problems of finding things that don't fit. Socionics uses an extra dichotomy to split the information elements into 8 separate ones and that allows more precise distinctions of strong/weak and valued/unvalued and finally better fitting types despite the number being 16 instead of 24.
However, I could accept the system being all about "attitude" which means it's just a way of sorting how you value these elements related to each other, but then you have to throw the whole strong/weak dichotomy out of the window because it implies raw ability in that element.
:thinking: yeah, this is good criticism imo. Related to this I did open up a thread which explains for example why E and emotions are not Fe or Fi and how to logically separate these things. It can be argued that F is not Se or Si and V is not Se, L is not Ti or Te, since those are IMEs and here we are just talking about general attitudes towards aspects of life.
Good example might be Gitler, who was VELF and EIE, but 1V does not mean he was ever good with Se and 2F while in this case goes hand in hand with lead Fe, it has little to do with it in all actuality. V is more like identity, motivation and drive.
Since this is merely about attitudes towards aspects of life the argument is that information elements are entirely different. There are some limitations it seems, example IEI with their Te PolR is probably not going to have Strong F, while Ti mobilizing might mean they are 2L in the end even tho their Ti and Te sucks. Its just the attitude one has towards an aspect.Quote:
Now, you could say that there's no point mixing socionics into this, it's a different system. But I used the examples above to illustrate the problem that arises when you have only 4 very broad "information elements" and force them into three dichotomies. It's quick and dirty but it also creates endless problems of finding things that don't fit. Socionics uses an extra dichotomy to split the information elements into 8 separate ones and that allows more precise distinctions of strong/weak and valued/unvalued and finally better fitting types despite the number being 16 instead of 24.
However, I could accept the system being all about "attitude" which means it's just a way of sorting how you value these elements related to each other, but then you have to throw the whole strong/weak dichotomy out of the window because it implies raw ability in that element.
Exactly, I think where this system (at least this english translation, it would be interesting to see the original material even if through google translate) falls apart. It's okay although a little crude when it describes the attitude to certain aspects of life, but it oversteps its bounds when it tries to apply the strong/weak dichotomy arbitrarily to 2 of its 4 aspects when in reality your strengths, weaknesses and even attitudes are more nuanced than that.
:thinking: still I found it useful in terms of differentiating Fe from 1E tbh, which be4 was a bit confusing. This system however shed some light on why I cave so easily to and avoid or blow up from strong negative emotional expressions of 1E people. aka me being 3E. There seems to be something in the interaction with them that just rubs me the wrong way, they seem selfish, like nails on blackboard to me. I have a definite preference for 2E.
I couldn't explain it with socionics tbh. and kept mistaking 4DFe- for it.
The Alchemist is a pretty snug fit. I'll take it.
Got ELVF in this test https://bestsocionics.com/test/psychosophy/ and this test https://xn--h1aaracmczf9h.com/cgi-bin/test.pl
An I got this result in the first test :
Attachment 16678
I can see 3V 4F and I can somewhat see 2L but I don't really see how I could be 1E. I am often unsure of my emotions, of how I show my emotional states to people around me (apart from close family members).
Yes, I'm finding it hard to narrow down my type for the reasons you mentioned. I agree the descriptions can box you in in a weird way, especially if you are a sociotype that sort of contradicts your AP type. You will read those descriptions and go "what? I don't do this." There's a similar problem with certain enneagram descriptions: focusing on behaviors, which leads to confusion.
The best route, maybe, seems to be sticking to individual descriptions of the Aspects. There are brief and good descriptions on the AP site under "Theory," but more fleshed out versions on the Russian sites.
Also, I could analyze myself into almost any attitude and see myself in so many parts of them. What type does that make me? Lol. Probably one that overthinks beyond the simple answer. I'm all ears if someone wants to weigh in on my type.
They were posted a few years ago on this very forum and you'll find them with a Google search of "16 types Psyche Yoga Sexta 1 (2,3,4, etc)": https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...e-Yoga-Sexta-1
The "Enneagram Correlations" section of the AP site is confusing, too. Apparently my enneagram type is rare for any of the AP types I'm considering.....
It may be because they can sell you their thing better if they relate the theory to widely spread western typologies (Enneagram is commonly used for "subtyping" in the west, specially in MBTI communities). Take into account that all of which you can find in that page is evergreen content to attract you towards hiring their services (which is not wrong, its normal) so you might be better off taking what's logically plausible and separating these typologies.
-I think this means VELF but not sure I'm reading it right :lol: (200 question test):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6jrhrj6ki8...%20PM.png?dl=0
-"Breezy" test gave me EVLF.
-bestsocionics site gave me VELF and VLEF as tied for first, then EVLF.
Of course we all know the accuracy of internet tests...
This website contains good info on both socionics and psychosophy, you just need to let google chrome translate the website to English:
https://bestsocionics.com/
I got my results! VLEF The Contender/ Socrates.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
creative filling of blanks needed for the 200q test:lol: A couple of the questions in the F section were so unsubtle that I could not imagine someone answering positively to them, lol. Being a 4F, how did you find those questions?
In your result neither E or V were close to 1 in the first position, which could be put down to the "abstract" translation...
it got me wondering about how 1V could come across in this message board format. Is it possible?
No one can really exert their will above yours here, where you can always have the final say - take it or leave it.
You invite discussion, encourage input to decide your type - to me this is 2V, but in real life you may interact differently; may be in a constant state of striving that is unseen here. 1V seem to desire greatly, and once the path is decided ...good luck having an outsider change this course!
1E matches how I present in real life. My speech is littered with exaggeration, inanities like wow and really?!". I'll frequently express adoration so eyeroll inducing for 3E types but I can't help it; the enthusiasm is sincere, so it must be. Be meaning "outside of me". Same goes for laughs; it is easy for me to burst into laughter despite silence all around and some find it amusing to push the button :-) E is visible in facial expression, which is missed when we communicate by text only.
To be honest I'm not sure what to make of your test result :confused:
Would you agree that you ride your emotions out without questioning them, or are they something you look to others to channel/understand better?
You mentioned that you're often unsure of own emotion - how about the emotions of others; are you sensitive to *vibes*, and will you adjust yourself in turn?
Both 1E and 4E are unconscious, not up for discussion or reasoning. 4E can be imbued with intense emotion, and may even welcome people or media that help them "catch" the desired emotion that they are not aware of within themselves or have access to.
It may be helpful to decide (or rule out) which two of your functions are the processional, or which two are extroverted.
I relate to conscious/process emotions and will , unconscious/result physics . I take into consideration other emotions, I don't want to be mean to people and I can be self-conscious on what other people think of me.
I can't say that I ride my emotions without questioning them...
Most people say I'm nice / don't get mad at people / non-aggressive.
I can be whiny, complaining about the difficulties I encounter for example
Attachment 16679
Ambiguous results for a 200 questions test
Will is the most interesting part of all of this for me, and so I've been reading about it from HERE The first will isn't me, only one or two small aspects of it seem possible, but overall, no. They are quite dominant personalities it sounds like, with Napoleon being used as a frequent example.
The second however, I'm in the middle of reading it, and it's explaining so many of the things I've already mentioned in this thread. Being both stubborn and compliant, not caring about officialdom, rank or authority when gathering sources (or in general.) And even things I've said recently in political threads such as despising rule by tyrant and rule by mob but being very welcome to rule by law (if the law is just.) I'm not done reading about it yet, and may change my mind eventually, but so many things are hitting home.
Selected quotes from 2nd will description:
Third will is fascinating, at least as described here. In this site Stalin is often used as an example, and in other places I've seen Trump typed as 3rd will. It seems like people with 3rd will both hate power, and crave it at the same time. (Sorry if I'm mischaracterizing) It's interesting to read about.
Ohhh, now I noticed they're the same descriptions but the ones posted on individual threads were manually translated and the one posted here was auto-translate so I didn't recognize them lol. I swear I've read the descriptions fromevery source I could find many times so I know them word by word hahah
2L stands out, and based on those results E would not be unconscious. Where do the other tests, particularly bestsocionics, place your physics?
I suspect one of my friends has 1F. If I'm correct, these people just *do*what works for them in terms of exercise routines and the cut of clothing they suit best (quick examples). What works for them does not have to be polished, it is more about adherence. They are pretty self assured/unhesitant in this area and can provide advice if prompted, but what you do is not their prerogative.
Do certain habits relating to the "material" centre you, or do you view these as burdensome; keeping you from fields you'd rather spend your time on?
Your results are similar to mine. High 2L, At first I thought it wouldn't be possible to be 1F as ILE so I thought perhaps I was LFEV or something. But then as I read more descriptions and thought about it carefully I realized that my F is very result-oriented meanwhile my L is more democratic. So 1F and 2L made better sense.
My scores were pretty strange though, my highlighted numbers were 2L, 2V, 2F and 4E. But in terms of highest possible number for each position, 1F was the largest at 0.6 or 0.7, (1L was 0.3 perhaps), 2L was >0.9, and then 3E was greater than 3V and 4E also slightly greater than 4V. I opted for 3E and 4V based on descriptions.
The best way to type imo is to think in terms of process vs result. Which are your two strongest functions? Are they process oriented (do them for their own sake, fun, etc.) or results oriented (do them for results, then leave them aside)?
Repeat this process with your two weakest functions. It's a lot harder since you don't use them as much but you can notice the difference between process and results. The third function is kind of a background function which is very receptive to information about the function albeit incompetent at applying the function effectively. So 3F is very physically perceptive, 3L is logically perceptive, etc. Meanwhile the fourth function is more like a switch that you turn on and off. It turns off automatically in times of stress.
Something funny is that since the 1st and 4th function are both result oriented then they look quite similar. Especially 1L and 4L and 1E and 4E, which are exclusively verbal/emotional so there's no physical or 'attitude' difference that you see between 1F/4F and 1V/4V. So in order to differentiate the 1st and 4th function a good way to see it is in terms of stress: When people are stressed, they overuse the 1st function and shut down the 4th. So in your case you could figure out if you indulge your senses or start thinking a lot when stressed. I thought it was odd how I could be a 1F as an ILE with 1D Si and then I noticed that I eat a lot/exercise/etc. to relieve stress and so it all made sense lol.
The LIE equivalent in PY is probably VLEF. It wouldn't be weird if you were FLEV since they're in the same sexta.
Thanks thistle. Yeah, I'm generally diplomatic and democratic, and I think 2V fits pretty well. However I'm extremely driven towards certain goals, am an entrepreneur, and it's difficult to stop the striving.
I've gone back and forth between accommodating other people and then being like "you know what?! I need to get this thing done for myself." A lot of my life has been a balancing act between what I want/how I feel and what others want and how they feel, but in the end I always go after my Ni goals even if it's not done immediately :shrug:
In regards to the potential of being 1E: are you Fi valuing? I'm trying to determine how a 1E Fi valuer would differ from a 1E Fe valuer.
I'm honest about how I'm doing/feeling and am usually told that I'm "genuine," "passionate." I'm reserved and hold back if I don't trust the person, though. My creative Fe usually doesn't allow me to negatively impact other people with expression. I'm careful to avoid hurting people's feelings, causing offense, or letting negativity spill over onto them. Considering the emotional impact on others seems 2E, but maybe it's just my Fe. I also grew up with a 3E father and I think this caused me to be more constrained in my expression.