Well I mean of course I didn't literally mean everyone but just seeing the general reception to their typings it seems reasonable to assume most people wouldn't be interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ave
Well I mean of course I didn't literally mean everyone but just seeing the general reception to their typings it seems reasonable to assume most people wouldn't be interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ave
I need an account to read some messages about Model G on here and I have too much time because of covid...Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie
Understandable, I am being genuine though :love: not giving you a hard timeQuote:
Originally Posted by dead account
Spent a lot of time with the definition of the Jungian functions. Have different explanations of them from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ave
For example. What is the difference between empathy and sympathy?
What are the positive and negative aspects of them? Are they type related or not? Are they related to the Jungian functions or not?
haha thanks. the place itself isn't too bad, but most typings here give me a headache, and sol + khcs spamming every thread I find interesting doesn't help. DarkAngelFireWolf69 wanted to travel to berlin to visit me with his team a couple of months ago but covid ruined that, feels bad. maybe next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie
Fi vs Fe?Quote:
Originally Posted by khcs
Yes, empathy and sympathy are related to the Jungian functions. (In which context are the words empathy and sympathy used? Are they nouns or verbs?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ave
To which functions are they related? @Uncle Ave You got it almost right. Think about it a bit more.
How people behave when they empathize or sympathize with someone or something?
Most people use the English words empathy and sympathy interchangeably. They do not know the difference. (There are spoken languages in which these words do not even exist.)
It is essential to know the Jungian functions well for accurate typing results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duschia
I didn't do a typing interview with him because I never really had doubts about my type. I wrote him on facebook that I have a german socionics website with a lot ot translations of his work, then he invited me to a skype conversation with his school. one of my friends translated for me since she speaks russian. DarkAngelFireWolf69 understands written english btw, which made the contact pretty easy. the people of his school also speak english very well, so they explained humanitarian socionics to me in a few skype sessions.
I would say so yes, I don't recall aesthetics being mentioned in that context in MBTI.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlytherinPower
Well, I have to admit when I saw you were typed LSI (on sedecology) it threw me for a bit of a loop at first, but I also saw you thought it was right and why. So I began reframing my understanding of a bunch of things. I think when people come to the forum typed as one thing, people can get stuck with that in their minds and forms a stereotype of what that type is like.Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie
I’m going to explain one day soon why I think my typing is right (on here), but I haven’t been feeling well lately, don’t have much free time to write it out right now, and I want to explain it well.
But I will. :)
I'm fairly sure that's not the best typing for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
DCNH does not increase my confidence in his typings. His model has strayed quite far from Model A.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallmo
There is far more I can explain, I have on Sedecology as well, but I feel like there is no need also. Those who really know me, know. No need to pain yourself over it, you know yourself best and the opinions on this forum do not matter. My only real reason for sharing anything here was to illuminate that DarkAngelFireWolf69 is not speaking out of his ass. Hope you feel better soon, I have been a bit under the weather myself :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
He seems to just have re-positioned and renamed the functions based on function strength, but they all still end up being the same overall structure when the IEs are inserted.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
All you have to do is put them side by side and contrast. Its obvious. DCNH imo serves as a way to explain behavior differences between people who have the same information element usage within the functional structure.
I for example still have Ni-HA, role Fi, Si demo and Ne-PolR. Thats how I know I'm LSI even in model A. Idk about other ppl who got typed by G, but I always double check with my own reasoning e_e.. its a curse of being Ti and type 6, I always overthink and cross-examine everything right down to the nuts and bolts. Compulsive overthinking.. :thinking: I even made sure Reinin dichotomies fit.. any way I slice it looking at konwn and understood dichotomies.. only LSI patterns appear.
Considering I'm melancholic in temperament, considering I'm a highly risk averse type 6... e_e it all comes together neatly like a puzzle basically describing the same kind of person across several models and even personality theories.
They say a 6 should stop thinking about it when he is 70% sure, I'm 90% sure lol. DarkAngelFireWolf69 typed me correctly imo.. in contrast to the forum which is filled with bumbling idiots who mislead ppl. I equate it to a kind of infuriating gas-lighting of ppl trying to understand themselves and I will fight you fuckers down to the bone if I have to.
"What is difference between sympathy and empathy?Empathy is a term we use for the ability to understand other people's feelings as if we were having them ourselves. ... Sympathy refers to the ability to take part in someone else's feelings, mostly by feeling sorrowful about their misfortune."Quote:
Originally Posted by khcs
From Grammarly
From that point of view, to me, it makes sense that introverted ethics (Fi) is related to "understanding" people's feelings. Whereas sympathy, the ability to take part in them, is more related to extroverted ethics (Fe).
Fi will not try and participate in the emotion, but it can understand and empathize - Fe participates.
Again, this is going by the definition given above from Grammarly, and applied to my understanding of the functions.
Or would you say it is the other way around - that I am mixing up Fi with Fe perhaps?
I've seen several of his type assessments with the reasoning attached. He has also talked about it in different publications. I haven't seen it being a special secret sauce, really. He determines the temperament and then goes by dichotomies, finally ending up with DCNH which he uses to smooth out some other inconsistencies. The analysis is pretty surface level, with single anecdotes used to rationalize a dichotomy. That's to be expected when it's basically a short questionnaire with the second part customized. The main work of DarkAngelFireWolf69 has been translated and there's a lot of stuff you can read with the help of google translate as well. You're underestimating (projecting?) if you think it goes over the heads of people. This is literally not rocket science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vex
I didn't say people got typed by DarkAngelFireWolf69 because he's popular. I said it would be foolish to unquestioningly trust him based on that. Are you implying that you do unquestioningly trust him? If not, then this statement does not apply. Being good with theory but not being good at applying it in the field is something that happens in the real world all the time, in most fields. Is this something you're going to debate?Quote:
Nobody here got typed by DarkAngelFireWolf69 because "he's popular". Nobody even mentioned that so that's your perception of "this fad". Also, what you say in terms of someone "being good at a theory but not being able to apply it" is not very logical. If anything that shows how little you know about the theory. The theory is meant just to examine how people think on a cognitive level and how they metabolize information, that's it. This isn't an idea based on things that are physical or tangible that can be put out into an applicable plan. Most people of his caliber wouldn't even need much to examine how people think. This is a theory and anyone who knows a theory inside out, especially from the mind of the woman who created the theory, is going to be able to apply it for what it's meant to do. He's objectively one of the best Socionists out there with 30 years under his belt, trained by the originator, carrying on her theory, and running his own school which still uses Model A and another Model to enhance it. It makes no sense to say that someone with so much experience and who still uses the same Model, and has done so much research, who everyone in the sphere of Socionics talks about and refers to, bears no weight on Socionics or has no credible opinion due to "his method", and this shows how you "apply it" yourself imo.
Here the "applying it in the field" refers to the ability to determine a person's type in the system. That isn't necessarily easy to do even if you know the theory inside out. Unless you redefine your theory so that it locks down a simple methodology that always applies by looking at some specific surface details (thinking Vultology/CognitiveType here), but that doesn't seem to be very useful seeing how complex personality is. The rest of your arguments are basically ethical singing of DarkAngelFireWolf69's praises: "Most people of his caliber wouldn't even need much to examine how people think." - seriously?
No, most facts and theories within fields of actual sciences are not disputed. Socionics is a jungle where few agree with each other outside of basic Model A. I wasn't talking about DarkAngelFireWolf69 personally being disputed as a "socionist" (although these people undoubtedly also exist), I was talking about how widespread the acceptance of Model G and DCNH is among people working on Socionics. It's good if none of you think DarkAngelFireWolf69's typing is automatically gold standard and instead see the reasoning as very solid and fitting. I was hoping this would be the case.Quote:
I mean pretty much everyone is disputed in every field, DarkAngelFireWolf69 is really undeniably the most credible OG Socionist out there though. Nobody here who got typed treats him like a gold standard, though it's undeniable to see his work in the field. We just see the reasoning we got from him as far superior from which we received from the forum. People here can still think whatever, the forum is largely for fun for most forumites.
Good. Personally I see it goes against critical thinking if you mostly base your arguments on the weight of someone's perceived reputation in a field where nothing is objectively proven.Quote:
EDIT:
I forgot to mention that I agree with "Don't let this fad turn into a cult and remain critical." Because critical thinking leads to original thought and also leads theories, structures, insights, and the like leading forward and advancing. Though what you say in all your other posts that I've quoted here go against this aspect of critical thinking IMO.
I came here thinking maybe I'm SLI or ILI for example. I thought I was most likely not MBTI INTP (what i test as), but ISTP based on months long interaction with actual INTPs. I gave a short video in a type me thread. Based on that ppl immediately said Ne lead, probably ILE, either that of SEI aka generally alpha quadra e_e based on "vibes" aka "you have alpha quadra vibes".. some agreed with ILI. I disagreed on Ne, because not having a clear path and having a breath of options was/is infuriating and annoying, it just caused me to be paralyzed and overthink again. I'm not a creative person either (ppl with strong Ne are by default), that only occurred to one ILE here, but was ignored. Then I was told I have Fi PolR based on me saying that I feel nothing about some social disaster half way around the world that has nothing to do with my life lol.. and triggering some ppl. Due to disagreeing with a self typed LIE lmao he kept thinking SEI (cus muh conflictor and ITR). I kept arguing with them, meanwhile I figured out that I am probably beta quadra and that I'm like what the beta quadra describes. I saw LSI as Dolores Umbridge type, because that is the misconception and stereotype here.. so i thought maybe i am IEI and I'm not aware of just how feely I am or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by asd
The arguments went on, I sincerely thought some ppl were just messing with me at some point saying things like "you change types too often, must be Ne".. when I get conflicting information from multiple sources, have too many options and my own analysis is pointing at some kind of beta type, It was a complete mess and a nightmare for any Ne PolR type (which I eventually turned out to be).
So one day ppl in chat were talking about DarkAngelFireWolf69 offering typing services and linked to an ILI who was typed earlier. I decided to just cut through the crap and pay DarkAngelFireWolf69 to type me. Turns out my hunch of being beta was right, came out LSI-Harmonizing... Ne PolR, which is the furthest away from being Ne base type ILE (my supervisor).
I do NOT recommend being typed by the forum nor listening to what they have to say about one's type. At best they will get it wrong and at worst they will try to force a certain type onto you.
Yes, more than two but not dozens of course. They are all the same format, determination of temperament and installation by using dichotomies. It's very MBTI/Keirsey. It's basically still this method: https://www.socioniko.net/en/articles/DarkAngelFireWolf69-mbti.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Vex
I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad method, it's very straightforward and quick but I don't see anything "game-changing" about it. Are you referring to my tone and mood? I haven't been specifically questioning SGF's typing if that's what you mean, I actually commended DarkAngelFireWolf69 on that typing back then and haven't changed my mind about it. Almost everyone getting typed as betas suggests a systemic bias but I'm not convinced yet that it means most forum members actually are betas.
If you're reading my intention as attacking everyone who has been typed DarkAngelFireWolf69, you're reading it wrong.
What exactly is illogical now? It's common for people to be good at knowing or formulating theories but not necessarily at applying them in practice. Or do you see a lot of theoretical physicists building bridges despite their knowledge on statics? Yes, the major difference to MBTI is the intertype theories, however I haven't seen this aspect being used for type determination by DarkAngelFireWolf69 for example.Quote:
Why would you say "it is foolish to unquestioningly trust them based on their popularity" if a person didn't trust someone enough to type them? That's just illogical. How can a person know a theory but not apply it? That also makes no sense. Vultology and CT are different AFAIK (though I think inspired by Socionics) so I don't care about those. However, again I will say this isn't a personality theory. That's MBTI or Psycheyoga. Socionics is a psycho-social theory which is meant to look at how people think and interact as a result.
I was talking about DarkAngelFireWolf69's contributions to the structural theory when I mentioned his publications, not his skill in the "craft of typing" which is a very debated subject where no two people seem to agree on methodology for typing actual people. It's a sad state of socionics if there are "secret methods" that need to be protected from "exploitation" (of other competing "schools"?), because finally coming up with a workable system of typing real people would do much to elevate socionics as a whole.Quote:
You're making a lot of assumptions here. I'm pretty critical of Socionics as a whole, which I've spoken about multiple times in different posts. You yourself have not given any actual logical reasoning, just off topic rambles such as "it's not real science" or "Vultology bad", and other opinions like "I've read his publications on his methods which were OK" (which may not have even revealed all his methods that he teaches or uses, that would be too exploitable). :shrug:
Finally referring to this Timur quote:
Quote:
Socionic type has almost no effect on how you behave, it is not related to the level of intelligence, social success, personal qualities like honesty or kindness. Socionic type shows what kind of information your mind processes better, and which one is worse, which one it needs, and which one it ignores at all. Socionic type is a “skeleton” of our psyche, its deep mechanism, like our temperament.
I find this to be in contradiction to how determining someone's type is literally based on their behavior when answering a set of questions.
Yeah, that’s exactly my thoughts as well. I write some snippets on here from my life, but people don’t really know me (I don’t even get on shoutbox very often). I feel like, as others have said, that DarkAngelFireWolf69 asked the right questions. I was thinking I was going to get IEI-N before I got my diagnostic back after watching my second video, so I wasn’t surprised, and I think it made a whole lot of sense. But I wasn’t even considering it when I made my first video. Or really even my second. Just afterwards. I’ve definitely been rethinking a bunch of things lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie
Been feeling off myself since around thanksgiving. I noticed my lymph nodes swelling up, body aches, and a lack of motivation, so I’m assuming I might be sick or something. lol hope it’s not the ‘rona. Been staying home just in case.
So this is why you're "playing dumb"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
https://i.imgur.com/tiR0hxs.png
Yeah, this is the definition of "several".Quote:
Originally Posted by Vex
DarkAngelFireWolf69 is paying me 15 hryvnias for every heretic that I convert here. Line up.
He earned four times the minimum wage in Ukraine by doing 2-3 typings of confused people flooding his service because they had an identity crisis.
He better use that money to turn that Eastern European-kindergarten-looking room into a lounge full of velvet and fine wine.
I have heard that DarkAngelFireWolf69 likes to do social experiments, mb you should let one LII to join in for your group experiment. For the science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vex
Not at all - the suggestive function is supposed to have "high energy" in Model G. There is no reasonable sense in which this makes sense (including the ways it has been explained by Model G proponents themselves).Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunfingers
That's the intended purpose of any subtype theory. But DCNH qualities are better attributed to differences between type. Subtypes are widely used as a justification for poor typings. To see the absurdity of this, what the heck is a "Dominant" EII supposed to look like?Quote:
DCNH imo serves as a way to explain behavior differences between people who have the same information element usage within the functional structure.
The fact that you think the Reinin dichotomy descriptions make sense also does not help your case.Quote:
I for example still have Ni-HA, role Fi, Si demo and Ne-PolR. Thats how I know I'm LSI even in model A. Idk about other ppl who got typed by G, but I always double check with my own reasoning e_e.. its a curse of being Ti and type 6, I always overthink and cross-examine everything right down to the nuts and bolts. Compulsive overthinking.. :thinking: I even made sure Reinin dichotomies fit.. any way I slice it looking at konwn and understood dichotomies.. only LSI patterns appear.
That would be nice, but some models are just wrong.Quote:
Considering I'm melancholic in temperament, considering I'm a highly risk averse type 6... e_e it all comes together neatly like a puzzle basically describing the same kind of person across several models and even personality theories.
Define "high energy".Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
One with accentuated Fe. Probably MBTI INFJ.Quote:
That's the intended purpose of any subtype theory. But DCNH qualities are better attributed to differences between type. Subtypes are widely used as a justification for poor typings. To see the absurdity of this, what the heck is a "Dominant" EII supposed to look like?
I think several do not make sense, but other people have been saying for a while that for example process type makes sense for me even if I don't see it and I use causal determinist cognition. From the ones I'm sure of such as subjectivist, static, introvert, declaring, obstinate, emotive, carefree, aristocratic, logical.Quote:
The fact that you think the Reinin dichotomy descriptions make sense also does not help your case.
It is probable that some models are flawed. I'm still Ni-HA, Si-Demo, Ti-base, Fi-Role and Ne-Polr by model A standards. I don't have to rely strictly on model G tbh.Quote:
That would be nice, but some models are just wrong.
My ex.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
I'll send you video and picture of her, so you can see for yourself.
There's really nothing strange about this, unless one has a too onesided view of how a type can manifest.
that is not necessaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Tallmo
I can tell you that, because one of my friends is an EII with a dominant subtype. he's the organiser of a meetup group called eye contact experiment. he describes the group as an opportunity to see into the soul of another person and to find your soulmate. the group has 4000 members.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
https://www.meetup.com/de-DE/Berlin-...ct-Experiment/
he's the leader of his team, looks for venues and organises his team. if you behave in an inappropiate way he will directly tell you to stop your behaviour, but he will also tell you "sorry for that" a few hours later. you need to spend some time with different subtypes of a type to see the differences. normalising EII are much more passive and spend most of their time at home reading books. my friend has hundreds of contacts but still prefers to occasionally be alone.
it could be that you're a normalising subtype hotel, so DCNH might not really be for you. DarkAngelFireWolf69 knows that his school is mostly interesting for creative subtypes.
that's not my friend, but it's interesting that you type people based on dark pictures. no wonder that you come to all these nonsense conclusionsQuote:
Originally Posted by khcs
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
yes it is :)
khcs just likes to troll, don't take him seriously lol, unless its about politics and not typology.Quote:
Originally Posted by dead account
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunfingers
I know that he trolls me, but I also enjoy to criticize him, because I have no respect for him. I find his political posts here especially annoying and disgusting, and I'm suprised that he hasn't been completely banned yet, considering how little value he brings to this site. But I guess I have a more authoritarian mindset.
The question of what subtype I am has no bearing on the validity of DCNH, any more than me valuing Ti or not has any bearing on whether socionics is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by dead account
I'm sure there are websites where you could share her pictures more efficiently and with a wider group, if that's your kinda thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallmo
But seriously, I am not going to be convinced unless 1) we agree on the person's base typing (pictures are obviously useless for that, and random videos probably not much better) and 2) you can sufficiently explain why the person fits the subtype in addition to that. Step 1 will probably fail in most cases, because DCNH types are not independent of sociotype.
The suggestive/manipulative function in Model G is described as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunfingers
"Function receives as much energy as is needed to solve challenges. The more complex the task, the more energy at its disposal."
This is exactly the opposite of how it is. The suggestive function is perpetually inadequate for the task at hand. It's a 1D function so it has very little in the way of energy and struggles with more complex tasks.
Attachment 16541 Attachment 16542
The issues with Model G come from the fact that Model A is already a model of energy metabolism. It makes little sense to come up with a "different model" for the same types with the same functions, yet describe them differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duschia
oh yeah I saw that one. one of the highlights here haha
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoO...MbIY/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by dead account
*waves* I’ve been inactive for a while here but seen this post and thought I’d chime in...I was typed a month or so back as IEI-Harmonising subtype by DarkAngelFireWolf69. Which I’ll admit has confused me because I can see a good case for it and when I read the profile sent to me along with the reasonings for the conclusions I was awed at how it fit so well, but for so long I’ve believed myself to be EII and INFP in MBTI. I still see myself as EII and in other Socionics groups that’s been thought of as my best fit type. Though yeah, I’m still learning and more open minded now to just living and accepting that different people see different types in me.
I would recommend the experience though if you have the money spare and interested in typology overall. I found the process really simplistic to go through and now looking into how Model G works :)
I find it so cool though that more English speaking people are reaching out and getting typed. Makes me feel less alone in that experience!
i sent a reaction video back though it was an absolute blabbering mess (not to mention my hair was three sizes bigger cause I thought I’d try out waves so I was a physical mess too). I can’t remember if mine was published or not...I think it was cause I never said no but can’t find it 😬Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
@justalitnerdxx, I remember you :) could always relate to your posts a lot.
glad to see you post again! :love:
PS I like your avatar pic
Ohh, you posted about same time I did to you lol. Yeah I made mine but I thought I looked like neurotic/psychotic or something because I drank a ton of coffee on an empty stomach. They were probably like what in the world lol. So yeah I can relate to the embarrassment. :hide: I told them they could publish if they want (it was only about 3 minutes), but I don’t blame them if they don’t want to lolQuote:
Originally Posted by justalitnerdxx
@aster aw thank you. I actually seen it on Facebook on an art page I follow and was drawn to the mythological imagery. It’s called "The Two Sides of Persephone" by Alexandria Huntington.
Yeah, I needed a long break away from everything typology related. I mean even now I’m confused about stuff and wary of drama but kind of trying to expand my comfort zones and interact more with others (and hopefully learn more!) I mean, I can see how the Model G IEI profile fits me but I guess I’m attached to being EII and Delta. Like, I’ve never felt I was a Beta valuer seriously. Then again when I raised my concerns with DarkAngelFireWolf69 and Anastasia, they said that it was totally common for IEIs to not relate to Se values as much. Anyways..I’m open minded and aware I could be totally wrong like usual :P
I’m sure your video response was fine! Videos are really awkward though right? I get embarrassed remembering other people can see and hear me. I’d rather not watch back to have to see and hear myself too ��
yes, very understandable. It doesn’t seem too bad around here lately, I don’t think (what with drama). Well I would hope no one would start anything with you, you seem very nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by justalitnerdxx
I can relate to this a bit myself. Think I may have been thinking about the quadras wrong, though. I’m trying to look at it in a different light.Quote:
I mean, I can see how the Model G IEI profile fits me but I guess I’m attached to being EII and Delta. Like, I’ve never felt I was a Beta valuer seriously. Then again when I raised my concerns with DarkAngelFireWolf69 and Anastasia, they said that it was totally common for IEIs to not relate to Se values as much. Anyways..I’m open minded and aware I could be totally wrong like usual :P
Ive personally always been attracted to confident and blunt people who will say things that one else will, but that’s just me. it’s one reason why I’ve wondered if maybe I don’t value Se after all. Also my taste in art and subjects I’ve been drawn to seem more like Ni/Se. it’s why I considered ESI for myself, even if it kind of seemed weird to me to be Se creative. I even asked my family and friends and they basically laughed at me.
yes, very awkward. lol. Actually the first two weren’t bad, they seemed to get progressively worse.. The reaction video was cringe in my opinion and I was super nervous, I think because I was talking about typology in front of DarkAngelFireWolf69 and I didn’t want to sound like a dummy. But i just turned out to look like a psycho, really lol, I just really don’t even want to think about it now hahaQuote:
I’m sure your video response was fine! Videos are really awkward though right? I get embarrassed remembering other people can see and hear me. I’d rather not watch back to have to see and hear myself too ��
@asd, I think if you agree, they might publish them on their Humanitarian Socionics School YouTube channelQuote:
Originally Posted by asd
How do I get one of these weird DarkAngelFireWolf69 typings?
Give him non counterfeit Ukrainian dollars. Beta typings are -50 %, alpha +200% in price. Or alphas are dirt poor/sure of themselves and betas do not know what to do with money (just ask WWII Germans and their betaness).Quote:
Originally Posted by mfckrz
Quote:
Originally Posted by asd
it's just that once N-subs have learned a theory, they are unlikely to be convinced by something else. it's because they have accentuated Ti, which makes them stick to rules they have previously learned. for the C-subs, N-subs are overly pedantic and close-minded. C-Subs are much more open-minded and jump from idea to idea, but unlike the N-sub, they rarely study things in-depth and quickly move on to something else, unless something really captures their interest. N-subs choose very few areas of interests, but they try to get a thorough understand of something. N-subs, especially when they are rational types, can do something like this for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n33fA8dO9GI
they can focus on a lot of details too that escape the C-subs attention. this C/N dynamic is for example the reason why DarkAngelFireWolf69 doesn't work with jack from WSS, because jack is a normalising subtype who only focuses on classical socionics. DarkAngelFireWolf69 told me that his school rarely attracks N subtypes unless they have grown up in a creative subtype family.
I also suspect the reason that many here get typed as IEI or LSI by DarkAngelFireWolf69 is that beta is probably the most likely quadra to seek out an external authority for help. I also assume that the majority of people who study socionics are introverts.
https://socioniks.net/article/?id=273Quote:
Originally Posted by mfckrz
Quote:
Originally Posted by asd
beta is an aristrocratic quadra, a quadra in which status and your position in society plays a huge role. being the most well-known researcher in socionics, DarkAngelFireWolf69 probably has a high status for beta types who study socionics, so they are more likely to trust his opinion. I also noticed that LSI, having Ne as weakest function, often like to listen to the opinion of external consultants, but that's just a personal observation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asd
I feel like regarding the numbers, there are probably just more beta and alpha types that study socionics. gamma and delta are more oriented towards objective knowlegde, so they are probably not that drawn to a theory that doesn't really have a scientific basis. it's all just a guess by me, though.
There's more here. H-IEI and H-LSIQuote:
Originally Posted by asd
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=...GAs1eL-elzh5h2
This thread has been very telling. 5 stars :thumbsup:
:muaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ave
Regarding Beta quadra and supposedly being more likely to call in the expert's opinion: in matter of my deep interests, which includes typology, if I can't verify the model myself and reproduce the same results, I will not respect their claim to authority. 'Authority' is often nothing but words with no substance. The proof is in the pudding, and I'm always hungry.
In addition, experience has taught me that experts who rely too heavily on sub-types in their typings are not worth my time. Especially if said sub-types are used to explain in- versus out-group behavior (us vs them). That's a red flag. Hard lesson learned, this one.
I thought about doing typing interviews for money, but I decided that it's not worth it overall. I find a price of >100 dollar for a typing that may not be correct to be very high but on the other hand the person who judges the type of someone probably puts a lot of work and time into the interview.
No, not for a wider group. I couldn't resist your challenge, when you said that D-EII is "absurd", because no type-subtype combination is absurd, they all exist and are different manifestations of the type. That's why I thought that maybe you don't really know what DCNH is.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
Learning DCNH is a lot about collecting many examples of people of the same type and contrast the differences, so it is always good to get exposed to more people, videos etc. But let's forget it.
I love Vera Borisova's comment about a dominant EII, because it describes my friend very well.
"a dominant EII is a kind of "an iron fist in a velvet glove": after a demonstration of softness and ethics from this person emerges an equally demonstrative condemnation and desire to "educate"."
I would not say it has higher energy than those functions. It would be very close to the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duschia
And Model G would also imply that it has higher energy than the mobilizing/launcher and role functions (pessimum and minimum respectively), which is absolutely wrong.
I don't think model G never says about actualization of the energy reserve hence you may consume it without great benefits.
The greatest actualization is apparently left to externalizes aka introverted functions to introverts and extroverted functions to extroverts.
As DarkAngelFireWolf69 points out it is not generally healthy for extroverts to use introverted functions and vice versa for introverts if they aim for social competence.
I’m the same, trying to look back through everything from the ground up. I think I’ve also misunderstood what Ni and Ne is. I’m still unsure of Beta and actually if anything I was thought as being an Alpha SEI or Delta EII. People generally were amused in circles when I first considered IEI as a typing like “nah you don’t value Se”. Though I’m not quite sure what Se actually is, or at least I’m aware my understanding is probably bollocks. So yeah, trying to learn and not take the theory or myself too seriously now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
*cringe* that last one is me (IEI-H). I’m so embarrassed but I didn’t say no to SHS using my video.Quote:
Originally Posted by asd
Yeah. I’m type unsure. I have thought myself as EII and have been typed by a few other Socionicists as EII. But I’m open to the prospect that I could be something else (like IEI or SEI). I’ll be candid and admit I have had an anxiety disorder and some past negative experiences that has impacted my sense of confidence and desire to socialise. So I guess that’s why I can seem all over the place.
From what I understand, Model G is different to Model A and could explain why I’d best fit IEI in Model G though EII in Model A :)
@Duschia I definitely have some more soul searching to do and understanding of how the IMEs and different aspects work so I can understand better which type would fit me best. I don’t really enjoy having different typings, I’d rather have consensus ��
@asd Im a bit uneasy with having different types - I rather consistency. I think my problem is I am always open minded to having my insights being wrong and take onboard other people’s feedback in regards to theories how to do things. Function wise and Quadra wise, from my understanding and self observations, I see more of a case for EII (Fi-Ne ego) for myself though can relate loosely to IEI profiles. However when I speak to some typed IEIs online I just think there’s a different vibe between us. I can’t explain it really well. I still have a lot to learn anyways and I think interacting more with people will help me see how the theory works in reality :) thanks for your inputQuote:
Originally Posted by asd
i think one should try to understand perspectives in this debate
this might be an obvious observation but i notice it is people with weak Ti (not necessarily valued) who are more in need of clarification and an “objective” party to evaluate them.
whereas there are still Thinkers who use the service but it is more out of sense of curiosity... or to add as another lens into their repertoire? of their sense of self if that makes sense
perhaps it’s harder for feelers and especially Fe people to type themselves if that’s the case, and forum discussion where there are inevitably multiple conflicting viewpoints is harder for them to tune out... so an expert Socionist might be especially appealing to them in that sense. they aren’t stupid or lack independent thinking skills. a patient, reasonable, calm, and rational person with tact. something this forum is sorely missing.
almost definitely a Beta bias though. even monkeys fall from trees. not judging what ppl spend their money on, but it’s not unreasonable to doubt or point out systematic pitfalls.
This, too, is my biggest hang-up for my IEI diagnostic tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by justalitnerdxx
I typed you as ESI. Typings of other forum member which are mostly noobs are just "funny", indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
You was inclined to think your type as EII, mainly. I doubted between EII and ESI, was assured in Fi. Your attraction to art of decay was against Si value and among examples against EII. Several forum members supported your profile type as EII. Later you've removed the type from the profile (after I've pointed on the influence of bad IR with your husband on your emotional state) and I do not know what then was with your and others' opinions.
"TIM IEI-N"
Welcome to mistyped "squad". This changes nothing significant until noobs do not use the typology on practice, what is rarely. Noobs understand this and so play in typings, types cosplaying and forums flooding for a fun. And until other noobs do not take profile types seriously to think as examples of types behavior. To perceive what happens on forums as "pretty funny": the efforts people do for you, an objectivity for a truth - is the main in all that, funny emotions from a flooding.
Among ways to understand the mistake is to compare yourself and to talk with IEIs as @ooo, @Aylen, @Fay and with other Fe-s as Maritsa. Also wish you to communicate closely IRL with SLEs which should be your subrevisies, to find gammas for a comparision and to understand the correct types of those people.
I hope you understand that in English-well where I am from, funny is not always meant as humorous, but sometimes it can be used as odd, which is how I was using it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol
if you think I’m ESI, ok.
I was typed SLE by Jack WSS on Jan 2 this year. After I saw how Consilence and SlytherinPower conned their typing from Jack recently, it made me really fucking livid. There’s no way those two could value Se. So I got typed by DarkAngelFireWolf69 and just got the results in about 1 hour ago- I’m SEE-N. I’ve actually secretly suspected that I’m SEE for awhile. Yayyyy I’m a “Politician.” I’m pretty excited to learn more about Socionics closer to Augusta and get far away from MBTI-like treatment of Socionics (poor stereotypes). And I want to reiterate, it’s not easy to be Se lead which is why I dislike and disapprove of anyone who shows they’re making fun of Se, degrading it, or avoiding it but then they’re delusional enough to believe they’re Se lead or value Se XD
So now I know that I’m most definitely an Se lead and I accept DarkAngelFireWolf69’s typing as the true one.
Congrats, this is actually a good DarkAngelFireWolf69 typing. The way you couldn't punch your way out of a paper bag theorywise, resorting to purely ethical arguments, misrepresenting Ti and finally looking up to authorities in logical matters was already convincing proof of Ti polr.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiana
I really hate to say this, and nothing against Jack because he seems really knowledgeable, but I suspected that if I got typed that my own opinion on my type might have more weight with him, which is why I chose to get typed by DarkAngelFireWolf69 instead. Well, one reason. That and he’s DarkAngelFireWolf69.
Unfortunately DarkAngelFireWolf69 happened to get your temperament backwards, you share 1D Ti with your friend Kiana so I understand why you would have trouble properly understanding comparisons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vex
@aster
When you make decisions about logical stuff as types with emotions - you'll be doing mistakes as in this case. When you make choices related to important for emotions following to logical reasoning - you do mistakes too, more that for F types. Then mistakes lead you and the ones near to more problems and to worse emotions than could.
The general mistake is the choice of inappropriate approaches. It's not funny in results.
I thought you were SEE indeed. Was about to tell you my opinion in the futureQuote:
Originally Posted by Kiana
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to write out your experience and share it! From what I recall about myself at school, I didn’t really speak to a lot of people but would open up and chatter away if we had a shared interest - a bit like what you described with that lad. For me, it was books, and yeah embarrassingly The Twilight Saga �� I wouldn’t say I speak to people only if there’s an agenda for me or if it’s “cool” for me to talk to the person. I’ll always be polite and civil to people but the ones I connect with most there’s a common subject we’re talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
I relate to being a quiet dreamy child too. I am interested in mythology and supernatural fantasy too but to me the occult ghosts and stuff is really scary! I like the idea of magic existing in the world and do love vampire novels, ghost stories (I would have loved to be your friend and go along to seance and tea readings! I’m sure you were very sweet and cool) but I’d be scared shitless if a vampire knocked on my door to seduce me! I’m a wimp/ and that’s why I was unsure about being Beta cause I find gory creepy stuff well...creepy! Whereas other Beta NFs I’ve spoken to online are a bit more gritty and tough.
that said, at school I told my friends that I had no boyfriend because Satan had kept my virginity in a jar and wouldn’t allow anyone else near me. It was a joke, I guess cause I was teased for being frigid and shy and boyfriendless so I went with it like “erm yeah...well the Devil is my bae so who’s the real winner?”
I haven’t really mixed much with SLE LSI or LSE types in real life so I can’t really comment on intertype relationships, as to who Id get on best with. I do admire SLEs and find their frankness at times quite inspiring. Though I’m so boring and solitary compared to them; would rather sit indoors reading or writing than being out on the go. I think I’d bore them and other Betas actually ��
Nice try Delta. You constantly reframe everything to suit your image and when people call your ass out on your nonsense like Sb, you freak out like the coward you are. You of all people refuse to subject yourself to honesty and be typed and cling onto your delusional glorifying self-typing but are quick to doubt anyone go through what you’re too chicken shit to confront. I may make really bold assessments but I’m grounded in reality and accept that I don’t know everything, I may never know everything, but I’ll dive right in and I’m not afraid to be wrong and learn from that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
You’re just jealous cuz you know you can’t fake Se. You and derpy Adam make a really fine pair.
Yeah but you’re still EiI and freak out from Se when it comes at you. You can keep being delusional with conning others for a type you want but you still don’t have Fe and your usage of Fi is cringe and idiotic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Consilience
I’ve defended Jack because I think his typings are actually pretty spot on, but only when the person being typed is HONEST and not fishing for a type and when he’s NOT typing his friends because he wants to please them so he gives them the type they want. I wasn’t ever fishing for a type, so my interview with Jack (from his old method) is truly me. But because I’ve had doubts seeing how Jack folded to delusional people just to avoid conflict, it made me want to know what my true type is, and I do believe in objective reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
A lot of this has to do with understanding the functions and Model structure as Socionics from as close to Augusta’s formulations and not the Westernized MBTI version of Socionics which has greatly distorted understanding how to recognize the functions by pushing simplistic associations as Fi PoLR = emotional retard, or Ti lead= genius, etc. In order to do that, have to undo MBTI and it requires other people to also undo MBTI, too.
Yes, keep the ethical arguments coming. Of course Ti hurts you and that's what you keep calling "Reframing". I didn't see any comments from you for days after I finally gave honest explanations of how I arrived at my self-typing as a response to you. That's before Vex now decided to kick me from the discord server, lol. You also had to block someone else who was giving you hard time about your lack of logic. That's definitely subjecting oneself to honesty, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiana
I find it hilarious how you call Se leading as something glorious to be worn as a badge. Too bad you had to hand in the Beta badge, though. Btw, I would be fine with being some other type if that happened to fit better. But it is what it is.
You make really bold assessments which often turn out to be false, such as your typings including your self-typing. I admit I make bold assessments as well, the difference is that I can actually back them with logic instead of feeling though. You're the one who immediately retreats and shuts up when the debate becomes theory-heavy and you can't just turn it into a shouting match.
Let me get this right, you are typing me as Adam's identical or dual? And what are you typing him as? I really don't have anything against him (like you and Vex seem to have), but I don't think we are identicals or duals.
Thanks! I think SLE is actually a good fit because it’s still Se base. I’ve read of people often self-typing themselves as their mirror but my case with Jack’s typing, it’s kindred. I didn’t realize that because I hate other people’s Fi, that I’m protecting my Fi. So a lot of this has to be misunderstanding the functions and how it manifests and applies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duschia
DarkAngelFireWolf69 remarked from my videos that I’m energetic and excitable and noted my usage of ethics to get what I want, to which I accept. I always believed that people cannot accurately self-type, which is why I chose to get typed first by Jack and then DarkAngelFireWolf69 because it’s my belief that people are still blind to themselves. I wanted an objective and trained person to analyze me and tell me what I can’t and don’t see in myself. I’m really glad I did it and all the more grateful that gained insight into myself. That’s the point of typology and I believe I’m doing it correctly.
So Jack's typings are pretty spot on when the person being typed is honest and not fishing for a type and you were typed by his good old method. Then you say you started to doubt him and needed to get your True Type (tm) from DarkAngelFireWolf69. So which is it? Jack's typings aren't really spot on or you lied to him to get a specific type? You've still got a lot to learn if you think objective reality can be handed down to you by a guy in Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiana
Yes, start bashing MBTI to redirect the attention, it is of course the culprit for your incorrect self-typing. When you were still supposedly a Ti ego then you were singing the praises of Ti and calling Fi egos retards, shitting on Te. Yes, you're truly the Politician, you don't even need to change hats in order to change your opinion inside out, as long as it drives your agenda.Quote:
A lot of this has to do with understanding the functions and Model structure as Socionics from as close to Augusta’s formulations and not the Westernized MBTI version of Socionics which has greatly distorted understanding how to recognize the functions by pushing simplistic associations as Fi PoLR = emotional retard, or Ti lead= genius, etc. In order to do that, have to undo MBTI and it requires other people to also undo MBTI, too.
Congrats @Kiana on SEE and finding a fit. You’re very vibrant in a way I often observe from SEE :love:
Ah, so you’ve got an echo chamber that gives you confirmation bias which is why you fought Jack pushing EII. That’s great but you still can’t comprehend Se at all. Any Se valuer would be able to understand Beta or Gamma Se. You don’t get to pick and choose, Se is Se. You're not Beta just because you defend your friends and overlook their nonsense. Vex has 1D valued Se and she understands me just fine. Dusch is 1D valued Se and he understands me (doesn’t mean he has to agree with me). You claim to have 2D valued mob Se, but “don’t understand” me. You’re chickenshit. Anytime someone contradicts what you say or even tries to get you to be clear, you freak out and change to the topic by spouting nonsense. This makes perfect sense actually, as I’m your supervisor and I hate how delusional you are. I don’t hate you, I just find you to be utterly and completely pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Consilience
Thanks!! I’ve always thought Beta values don’t fit me, and that Gamma fits better. But I acquiesce to people who are more knowledgeable in the field than I am. I’m glad I got typed by G. This gives me a lot of information and I’m pretty excited to learn my cognitive process with eyes wide open!Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie
I didn’t praise Jack, I defended him. Like I’ve said before, he’s actually very good with accurately typing people if they’re not fishing for a type, UNLIKE you wanting to get bias confirmation from him. You’re really an idiot. I do accept Jack’s typing of me as SLE, but acceptance doesn’t mean agreement. You had to fight Jack to con your typing from him. I listened to Jack and accepted his assessment that I’m SLE. It’s because you and Kelly conned your results from Jack, that shows how his method is easily manipulated and that made me question. You can lie to Jack but you can’t lie to DarkAngelFireWolf69. He don’t show his process. This is why you and others are so scared to get typed by DarkAngelFireWolf69 because you know you can’t fake your way through. Again, you avoid and deflect the situation by bringing up irrelevant points. You keep gaslighting others because you have self-doubt but I don’t. Welcome to foggy 1D valued Te land and you’re still chickenshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Consilience
Where all my peripheral quadra boys and gals at?
This thread is fucking hilarious
Funny enough, the girl who I was talking about, who I thought Beta NF, didn’t like occult things either! She wouldn’t watch horror with me and would freak out over occult stuff. So idk lol. But I like twilight, too :shifty:. I didn’t read it until I think I was 22. That’s around the time it came out I think. I was big into Anne Rice books when I was younger and used to watch The Queen of the Damned over and over and had the biggest crush on Lestat :pQuote:
Originally Posted by justalitnerdxx
im sure we would have made fast friends :hug:
yeah honestly I’m not very tough, either. I’m a chicken shit wimp really, and I’m pretty boring and don’t mind it. Oh well, it is what it is..
Yes, I didn’t get the feeling you were. I agree that some people seem to be. I don’t think they even realize they are. I agree with everything you’ve said. It’s refreshing to see someone call people out on BS :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Kiana
Beta squad uniteQuote:
Originally Posted by Reyne
Where can u get typed by gulenkerino and how much it cost
I think a lot of errors are committed simply because people use typology of any sort to validate their delusions rather than push it away, and I’m against those who manipulate reality to suit their frail egos. If you’re going to subject yourself to analysis, you better not be fearful of the results. There’s nothing wrong with being any type but people gravitate to what they think is most flattering due to natural inclination of self-preservation whether it’s got any truth or not. The goal of typology is to understand the self and how one thinks, understand weaknesses and work on them and if possible, eradicate them with work over time. So much of socionics theory is still framed from an MBTI-like approach and treated like it’s an anything goes deal where you could be anything. From DarkAngelFireWolf69’s assessment, I understood that just because I hate other people’s Fi doesn’t mean that I can’t be Fi and I understand now that my rationale for hating others’ Fi is basically due to them “violating” my lead function, Se. I consider anyone who mocks or distorts Se as an enemy and I treat them as such. Irl people do look up to me to provide them support and give them courage to do things but I’m not emotional. I never had faith in my people skills, but Fi doesn’t mean I’m suave with others, just means I know how to deal with people given the circumstances. I didn’t realize this about myself, and I’m so glad and grateful G helped me understand that.Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
I’ll record my review of him as soon as my roommate gets off the couch cuz she’s been sick lately and moved out to the living room for “air.”
Very easy! https://socioniks.net/article/?id=273Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 9 large
120USD + whatever transfer fee there is (like $5 for the service I used).
Anastasia will give you instructions, as she deals with English clients.
Um. yeah I get diffused around these matters as well. It is really hard not to swing to extremes if I have to prove the point. So people might get an impression that I believe everything I "accept" but pressing against their view does not seem like a right battle to pick if it is just humdrum daily life. That being said many times even a pressing doubt is not enough excuse myself from not trying to see the possibility. So it gets unfinished or something.<- see what I did thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Kiana
i love the idea of“the occult” in fiction - makes more interesting and daring stakes in the story - but yeah real life occultism gives me nightmares. Yeah, I definitely need to reevaluate my understanding of the Quadras and different types to better understand. It may be easier for me at this time to take myself out the equation. I stress so much that I get different feedback and not confident at all with what my personal understanding is ��Quote:
Originally Posted by aster
Well 2 LIIs that I've talked to on discord have both said they don't see ESE for me so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiana