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bahhhh havent read the thread but it seems like common sense that putting something on ur mouth and nose will make u less likely to get germs.
like surgery floors and stuff
i guess there is efficacy and side effect stuff to quibble about and to be fair i'm not well versed in that because quibbling isnt my thing
Ti-valuing is not in doubt. They've analyzed the transmission of viruses to the nth degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
And yet........and yet, there was no flu season this year.
Must be magic.
You think it was masks that stopped flu?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Yes. Masks, and social distancing.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
i feel like sometimes it comes from a 1D T DS fct. I've seen Te DS and Ti DS both become very caught up in the contradictions or the changing of the story, leading to confusion and suspicion. the story about the masks is always changing (what is the REAL reason for that? *suspicion*), or all the contradictions (they said masks don't do anything, then they said masks are effective, they contradicted themselves! WHY? *suspicion*), or in this venue they want people to wear them but not in THAT venue (why do not the same rules apply? *suspicion*). there's not as much tolerance for all the tripping all over themselves people do when trying to manage a crisis (badly).
but really, beneath all this is probably a distrust of the "authorities" and distrust of their ability to manage anything. so the people in charge are idiots who can't make decisions that make sense, manage resources/people, etc. or worse, they have nefarious motives and therefore everything that comes from them cannot be trusted. and ofc it all became so political in the US, that honestly, it wasn't all just down to the basics of public health considerations.
eta generally i look at it kind of like this:
https://youtu.be/0Tp0zB904Mc?t=215
i didn't watch the whole thing, but it makes sense to me that they block more droplets and if approaching someone face to face, one will spew fewer droplets on them if wearing mask. so i can understand why these mask rules are in place, and i don't expect perfect rulings from the authorities. i know there's been a lot of mismanagement in US and it's been kind of a disaster, but i tend to cooperate i guess if there is some major crisis anyway.
they're also rather testable in that when you exhale you can feel where the air is coming out with your hand.
What is Ti. What is Se. Do I win the Jepardy? Also What is Ni/Fe.
I can see Ti/Se arguing with themselves over minutia like mask wearing if told it's bad over a facebook post.
Distrusting the government is natural for someone with low Fi.
Similarily, I've had people try to "prove" it not viable to wear a mask via some convoluted test. Wanted 15% mask wearing proven by a blood test. I'm like what the frick, but then they dropped it to 0% and I understood. This person was either Fi/Se or Si/Fe. They figured we'd accept 15% if they proved it with a blood test, which "should be possible." I'm repetitively saying I don't know that it's possible, and they're like, no any doctor like me would agree it's possible.
Ni/Fe would normally not care, but they trust Ti/Se universally, so. I can see them saying government conspiracy is the real reason why we have masks, but also then wearing masks because they don't care.
Personally, my position is literally pascal's gambit. You cannot defeat my position except by not understanding it. If I wear a mask, what happens? Nothing. What do I lose if I don't? Not very much, I'm not likely to die if I get sick. Still, I don't want other people to get sick off me, so. Mask. That's before me just doing the government's mandatory thing.
Frick the faith argument, I have no faith by the constraints of what faith is to the evangelist. Faith is no fear in god. I fear his wrath. I will wear a mask.
When Ti valuing they think that there is something wrong with the pandemic and that some sanitary measures are absurd,and won't respect the measures everytime because they find it unnecessary but some types who are quite conscious about their health (generally LII , IEI and Si ego types) still follow the measures (even if they don't agree with everything). When Te valuing , they have no doubt from official sources and they find rationale to respect the measures, but some types(IEEs and mb gamma SF) won't follow the measures either because of inattention or because they don't attach that much importance to their health (or, for ESI, they don't really believe in the dangerosity of COVID)
@inumbra
Regardless of what “makes sense to you,” no public health organization recommended wearing masks for any disease prior to March 2020. Short of an N95 masks are virtually useless. At most they stop you from spitting and sneezing into people’s faces.
Alright, just skimmed through this whole thread and wanna put my thoughts out.
The idea that somehow the valuing of Te, or anything function for that matter, affects if people will wear masks on not is complete bullshit. All evidence that people have put in this thread for any type has been anecdotal, which would've been at least useable, if it weren't for the fact that there's virtually no clear pattern. The only one that approaches one is the idea that Te valuers care more about masks, which seems to be pretty untrue considering the comments of the few Te valuers in this thread. From what I can tell, the only thing socionics does in this category is predict the process by which people think masks are useful or not, not whether they will. A Ti valuer might defend their stance different from a Te(In what way depends on how you define each of those functions), but in the end what stance they hold is more dependent on the environment they're in. Anyone, of any type, can use cherry picking to only look for information for what's true or not. A person with 4/3d Te should theoretically be able to figure out true information better than someone with 1/2d, but in the end, if they just want information that proves they were right in the first place, good Te means nothing. This entire thread is filled with people putting their cherry picked evidence as truth, taking any evidence they can get their hands on proving their position true.
Study testing 10 million people finds no evidence of asymptomatic COVID spread
"In all the history of respiratory viruses, asymptomatic transmission has never been the driver of outbreaks," Fauci said. "An epidemic is not driven by asymptomatic carriers."
So if asymptomatic carriers aren't something to worry about, why are healthy people subjected to lockdowns?
aaaaah I don't know why such measures appear to make a difference but they do. my state would respond to increases in counties by shutting businesses down more for a bit and then the rate of spread would go down again. our hospitals have never gotten overwhelmed like they have in some states. i don't follow every word spoken by saint fauci - i'm too te polr to bother. :halo: i know this thing with the masks won't last forever and don't tend to make a big deal about the present.
the more significant argument to me is economic hardship vs spread as i've went back and forth on that in my mind.
although in everyone else's defense, rules that protect me from other ppl interacting with me make me feel better as i don't like all the demands and intrusiveness that come from others. so I haven't exactly been suffering more since this all began.
1. Paranoid governments ban things just in case, politicians trust their own reasoning while they should listen to scientists.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
2. People may hide symptoms because they don't believe in COVID or are afraid that quarantine will cause some problems in their life and think it's better for them to live normally.
So because a minority of people might hide Covid symptoms we should punish all society, force millions to lose their jobs, and watch rates of depression and suicides rocket?Quote:
Originally Posted by qaz00
Main reason for lockdowns is to prevent healthcare system from collapse. No lockdowns means this minority makes more people sick than hospitals can handle. I'd rather lose my job than be dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
Where are you living that hospitals have been anywhere close to collapsing?Quote:
Originally Posted by qaz00
I live in Ann Arbor, MI. Google the hospital complex here.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
During the last COVID spike the hospitals filled up and they had to start using space in the sports complex.
My exact numbers might be off, but I think that most hospitals have space for around one or three percent of the community.
Was that last autumn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Yes, I believe so.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
The University of Michigan health system has taken over the UM stadium (Google that, too) and are using it to vaccinate as many people as possible, as fast as they can.
But this is Ann Arbor, where there are a lot of advanced degrees. The rest of Michigan is not like this (Google Lansing where the doubters rallied in front of the state capital, or Grand Rapids, home of Trump’s “Education” secretary, De Vos), and infections are rising again in the state.
For the rest of the state, the COVID doubters go maskless, refuse to get vaccinated, they bring the infection back to their families, grandma and grandpa die and the family inherits and they get to buy a new truck. Win-win.
Everyone wear a mask, so I wear a mask. Wearing a mask doesn't kill me so I don't question that much about how useful it is. I'm not gonna waste my time challenging the government.
Here is one study on who is dying from COVID and who isn't.
https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-cont...nal_footer.pdf
Short form here: https://jabberwocking.com/new-study-...-19-mortality/
Same thing happened in my part of Florida. For a while, ICUs were filled up and new patients had to be rushed to hospitals in the next county over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
It's definitely types of people who relate to external dependency, who only feel safe in the real world, rather than in the imagination that freak out the most about the security of life, like mask wearing.