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Give it a little narrative context. A pull...
How about SEE at work or in dual encounters or developing their strengths and managing their challenges while in a non gamma environment, etc
Well it's no secret that I've been having a hard time with SEEs lately so it would be great if you could change my mind about them.
It might be better to change your expectations about SEE's, @calm.Quote:
Originally Posted by calm
SEE's are going to be providing you with fun and variety, and you are going to be providing them with advice on how to stay out of trouble. Anything else and you are trying to get blood out of a rock.
What a terrible oversimplification. This sounds more like IEE-SLI, honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
ETA: It is an oversimplification for that relation, too.
Descriptions of types get worse as the distance between the describer and the described increases. Plus, I'm not the most perceptive person I've ever known. So, criticism accepted, 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by voider
@voider, could you write your own description of what ILI's can expect from SEE's?
And what SEE's see in ILI's?
lmao. I knew an LIE that mentored an SEE at work and it was kind of like that. The LIE clearly wanted the SEE to be rational, practical, conscientiousness, about his work, all things his dual is, but not SEEs. He got frustrated and stopped mentoring him. I was kind of surprised at the time because socionics says activators are a good relationship, but that wasn't happening. Then you have me, who's probably LII, but we got along pretty well. But maybe I was his mirror anyway or maybe I acted like that at the time I was there. I bet on a personal fun level he would have gotten along with the SEE more and less with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
The success or failure of relationships depends to a great extent on what you are trying to get out of them. I get along fantastically well with LSI's as long as we are doing fun, relaxing things. As soon as we start to try to work together, our differences become glaringly obvious. They're not doing it wrong, and I'm not doing it wrong, but we're not doing it together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody
Someone called Mirage a relationship of increasing relaxation. It may be that Activity is like that, too. It's fine as long as the point is to have fun, but as soon as it's time to get something done, it's not so much fun anymore.
my thread now!!
It is true that a part of the SEE-ILI relation is the SEE getting the ILI to engage more with the world and look things from a brighter side, as well as the ILI being cautionary and warning the SEE in any endeavours they might attempt that the ILI does not see as particularly fruitful or are maybe even dangerous.
But reducing it to that is a disservice, really.
Se-Ni duality, the way I see it, is supposed to break you out of your shell. Except the metaphorical shells for the Se base and the Ni base are in opposition: the Ni base is gripped by paralysis of action, the Se base is gripped by paralysis of forethought or insight. That is not to say each type is incapable of getting out and doing things or self-reflection. However, in my experience, self reflection has always been much easier when I've had someone guide me through it, or some sort of external outlet to process it. The mockery and stereotype that Se bases are incapable of considering the metaphysical is hilarious, because we are, and might even give more merit to it than the intuitives because it feels 'important' in a way. Still, I can only speak for myself in this context. At least for me, who's willing to work on myself and get to know what makes me who I am, I generally appreciate conversation that forces me to consider internal aspects of the self that I would otherwise never think of. So that's my shell.
I do think ILIs are plagued with inaction that's born from an overly negative perspective. I haven't had many dual interactions but from the conversations I have had with some, they seem to appreciate or at least admire my willingness to try things just to see if they will work, rather than giving up before I've even tried. It's not really about finding "fun" things to do, although I'm sure many appreciate that.
All this being said: I think it would take pretty mature people on both ends to make duality work. That's what I've always said. Especially for the Se-Ni axis, duality seems quite daunting. You're completely changing your worldview. The Ne-Si axis seems a bit more mellow... You're merely adjusting your worldview.
@Adam Strange
Ni doms have a mystical allure. We intuitively “just know” things
Other functions (Te-Fi) are also important in dualities.
Fi as Mobilizing Function (ILI)
The individual longs for establishing stable personal relationships with other individuals based on mutual trust and understanding where deeper and private feelings and experiences can be easily shared. However, the individual lacks the initiative to establish such relationships and usually expects others to make gestures in that area, admiring those who do so. In the context of extroverted ethics (Fe) as a vulnerable function, it should be emphasized that these types especially value emotional bonds where feelings go unsaid between partners, and are simply "understood."
Fi as Creative Function (SEE)
The individual is very adept at perceiving, establishing, and maintaining personal bonds between people. However, these bonds are often perceived as being situational and flexible rather than static. The individual is inclined to focus on establishing personal bonds with other people in the context of realizing or following perceptions from his base function. The person easily creates a sense of closeness and kinship between people by expressing like and acceptance, but these sentiments are situational rather than an expression of permanent feelings. If the person's mood or external situation changes, he or she may "turn off" the feelings instantly, even forgetting whom they had created the feeling of kinship with.
Read this sentences again;
ILI-In the context of extroverted ethics (Fe) as a vulnerable function, it should be emphasized that these types especially value emotional bonds where feelings go unsaid between partners, and are simply "understood."
Then;
A girl-student by the name of Laima (The Politician) gave a good description of this type when she tried to describe the hero of her dreams: He must be handsome and smart, with big and sad eyes, not talkative. He does not tell compliments, and by that he creates an impression of his inapproachability. He is taunted by myriads of problems, which, in my opinion are nothing to be bothered with. I am attracted by his sadness, seriousness, so I try to amuse him, to raise his spirits, to make him happy. If such a boy is present at a party, I wouldn't be bored.
"...not an ILI Sad Boy..."Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Of course not, but Fe PoLR
Descriptions of Dual Relations by DarkAngelFireWolf69
ILI-SEE
4. Fe: vulnerable function of INTp and demonstrative function of ESFp
The SEE doesn't like it when the ILI actively pours out his emotions. He prefers that the ILI quietly sits with a serious and somewhat melancholic look in his eyes. The ILI himself needs to have emotional stability to be able to work. He enjoys relaxing and spending his time in a meditative state during which he can contemplate about the sublime, the wholeness of the inner world, and so on. The SEE is able to protect and shield the ILI from clamorous, boisterous emotions. Questions and discussions on this aspect are not appropriate; they can destroy these dual relations. The SEE should without any questions protect the ILI from any external turbulent pressurizing emotional influences by means of absorbing and dissipating them himself.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...ulenko#ILI-SEE
"...And why would he be at a party? That sounds like real torture to the ILI's Fe PoLR. Go to a business conference or something if you want to actually find an ILI because finding them at a party sounds really unrealistic..."
But this Laima's wish, so...
Ah yes, me and the dual:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkBlue
https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUA7a...ywY5Fu/200.gif
Bruh...
No SEE thread is complete without the SEE king himself:
https://images7.memedroid.com/images...ba074b1ca.jpeg
Why are ILI-SEE duality descriptions seem a bit sick to me? Do some ILIs/SEEs enjoy what they read about their duals and their potential relationship with them?
Some people are sick. Including people who wrote the descriptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
You're beta (SLE), not gamma. Just like any other mistyped betas. Beta quadra members are here:Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...11-Beta-Quadra
Have fun
Bruh wtf, Loooool. Mad? No
Party guys are more like SLE
SEE's have Te-Fi values (pragmatism). There are too many SEEs in the business world. The most serious quadra is the gamma quadra
mb other values problem. it's alien. they do not suffer there. until noone is killed - it's good healthy relationsQuote:
Originally Posted by one
> Do some ILIs/SEEs enjoy what they read about their duals and their potential relationship with them?
They should, in case were not mistyped to those types. Also it's useful to have communications with good and bad IR people to understand the difference.
@DEAD
@voider
Wtf is Fi? What is creative Fi like? Is it something you think about, or just instinctively feel and know? Or something you just do? Both?
Do you see a big difference between you and Fi dominants?
Do the big blanket descriptions lumping Gamma & Delta Fi together accurately describe what Fi is like for you IRL?
Lol, I fear SEE is the least serious of the Gammas then. All SEEs I know either be like "I work this business office job to have enough dough to live in Mexico surfin' and partying with the girlzzz everyday for four months straight every summer" or working in less paying social worker/arts/sports/public relations/construction worker jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by INTprocrastinator
They can be ambitious(Te HA) but their plan in life is not to live to work but to work to live. They love freedom too much to build a career in business most of the time. I see the other Gammas way more often in the business world. Maybe the SEE you see are ESI-Se. Having Te as inferior makes one take it much more seriously than as Hidden Agenda.
Smart's SEEs are very ambitious. They are quite different from stereotypes. I guess I should have written this firstQuote:
Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb
I'm interested in hearing an answer on this as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by inaLim
Ambitious how?Quote:
Originally Posted by INTprocrastinator
If you mean to insinuate that SEEs that aren't ambitious aren't "smart" you don't understand Fi creatives at all. The people I was referencing are no stereotypes. They are humans that tried to choose their paths willingly. Out of every type, I'd think a Gamma would understand that intuitively. Intelligent SEEs make great leaders, they can rise to the top and encourage people around them to give their best. I wouldn't let them deal with the logistics of any business though, that's a job for Te egos.Quote:
Originally Posted by INTprocrastinator
I type JFK as SEE. Here some quotes:
Quote:
Things do not happen. Things are made to happen. Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try. ~ JFK
Quote:
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. ~JFK
Quote:
Those who dare to fail miserably can achieve greatly. ~JFK
"If you mean to insinuate that SEEs that aren't ambitious aren't "smart" you don't understand Fi creatives at all"Quote:
Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb
-The answer I wrote was for your comment.
"Intelligent SEEs make great leaders, they can rise to the top and encourage people around them to give their best"
-Actually that's what I wanted to say
Those I met were very ambitious. They can be the dominant subtype. But ambition is related to the "Se function".
It depends what your ambition is :lol: maybe you're defining ambition in a Se-Te way I dunno(any type can be ambitious in his own way), but i wouldn't relate Se to business ambition. I would rather relate Se to notions of power, influence and self-confidence. The boxer Muhammad Ali is another famous SEE-Se:Quote:
Originally Posted by INTprocrastinator
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2YpCxUUsAEJKMU.jpg
SEE-Fi seem way more mellow.
JFK seems to be the presidential example of the SEE DarkAngelFireWolf69 describes, although that's debatable. For the ILI in his life, look at Ted Sorensen. Other options include LIE or ILI for both respectively, making them mirrors, but SEE makes good sense.
Many SEEs remind me of kids who are told not to put their fingers in light sockets or not to poke the family pets but they can't seem to resist the temptation. If asked why, they usually said that they were curious or it was just an urge. As they grow older, they just seem to find for more risky things to poke.
a.k.a. I/O
There is something cool about ESFps that this entire website can't comprehend. They make them into versions of ESFjs with shades of Sts built in. The issue is there are alpha NTs who have themselves mistyped and so are currently comprehending a version of ESFp that's a kind of cool dude bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
If you want to get a better description of Se, check out both smilex' s descriptions and also inalim for her (him?) idea of what a socialable Se looks like. They are human savy, not some steam punk cyber jock comic book cliche.
I'm going to be clear about Jocko Willink,Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
I know he does a lot of Se. But, I think he is like a pathological version of a ESTj with the need to "be perfect" and "ultra responsible". Many other points. Basically he is more of a foreman, over a marshal. I know he IS a retired Marshal, or whatever, but I don't see that as his best attributes, which goes to show any type can do any career because socionic "roles" - better yet, niches, are not stereotypes.
Look at the people Jocko attracts in his circles as well. Not beta quadra.
I should finalize this point by saying much of what I say is a subjective interpretation of socionics, which I know is more a art, not a science.
Exactly dude. Lots of logic of actions, basically his Se extends to "get at it"Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
I've listened to Jocko's podcast he does not value Fi. He is older and wiser but if you hear stories of how he acted when he was younger he sounds like an SLE. Try to find the stories of how he used to treat his wife or his friends you will see a clear lack of Fi. Plus you can see Te but where is the creative Si? I don't see that at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by timber
I think he is more rational in temperament than an SLE and I have always been suspicious of him being an LSI. The way he gets annoys by Echo's comments sometimes could be a sign of Ne PoLR.
All great points. He does seem like the kind of dude that needs help relating to others, I'm referencing his trouble with his kid (s?).Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOutThere
Weak but, valued Fi?
The rationality part is good.
I do agree that LSE is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by timber
Willink seems rational. I think Richard Marcinko could be a Se Dom, probably SLE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiiV1dDP68s
Highschool dropout to masters in poly sci, creator of Seal Team 6 (the team that killed Bin Laden) and Red Team 5 (showed it was possible to capture U.S. bases, hijack a US nuclear submarine, and bomb the president's jet), and bestselling author. He knows he's the real deal, he's proved it, he doesn't have to be over the top.
I think there cartoon hulk Se Doms who fit the stereotype, but not most. And there are also LSIs, LSEs etc trying to become it.
I feel like most ppl aren't trying to overcome what they are... But they do sometimes get lost in the traps from other ppl's projections...
It's really important for some ppl to define what other ppl are... WEAKNESS.
Just a question, how are SEEs as friends? Do they have the tendency to "use" their contacts that they become more of a taker than a giver in their relationships?
If they respect you they won't. If they don't... that's another story. I used to heavily dislike an SEE at first for how she seemed to use certain people like puppets, shallowness, selfishness, but now we're best friends. Usually it's the opposite, people like her a lot at first and then grow more disillusioned as they get to know her, basically realizing what I did when I first met her. I think seeing all her flaws really helped our relationship, she would call me out on my sad loserfag bullshit too which most people are too pussy to do in real life.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
If you're a polite pushover expecting polite pushover behavior back you're probably gonna feel used by SEE, sure. But it's pretty easy to sidestep that, just offer them help even when they don't ask for it and ask for favors back. Bam. Now, you are letting them use you, and using them back. If that doesn't sound appealing then a one-use middle finger and glare will solve that. Maybe. Honesty isn't too bad though, they respect that. An even more effective solution would be a clingy overly sensitive doormat who licks their boots all the time, they hate those.
Boring thread, I know. Sadly I don't know how to be interesting. Give me examples.
Surprise surprise, I know very few people who fit these qualifications, due to not going outside.
I can assume my two discount regulars are Fi/Se or Se/Fi. I deal with them both very well. They buy anything at 50% off. It's good practice even if they aren't poor.
@Cybel For the people they don't respect, do they use them blatantly or their manipulations are more hidden? I'm still thinking about the types of some of the people I know that have a tendency to use others for their own means, and I see two types: One tries to be as confident and loud as possible and orders people outright, while the other looks harmless outside but smoothly manipulates you into doing things. I can see that it's possible for SEEs to do both things since the first kind is most likely Se and the other can be Fi, but for the former, I notice that these people are seen as evil and do not have good public standing. I'm not sure if that applies to SEEs because based on the descriptions, they are charming and they know how to draw others towards them because they are ethical types after all.
You probably described both SEE and ESI.
It's not just being an ethical type though. I am also charming, but for other alternative reasons. It's because I'll bend over backwards to make sure you are good. I am not an ethical type, as far as I can tell, although some guy said I sound like SEI. Idk what he was talking about, tbh. He then got really angry and started repeating things. I will never forget that.
Btw, @DEAD, if you want the thread to be anything good, just tell us what you expect. It's gonna be socionics otherwise, and there's not gonna be a lot of ESFp stories, cause there's not a lot of ESFps, so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by one
Yeah, to be honest. I don't become "friends" with people, until we get close. I see a lot of what I do with other people as favours and "business transactions" until I form a relationship with people. I think a lot of people also think that a lot of people are put off because I am pretty harsh. I call people out and can come across as judgemental/critical to other people because of how I am. And yeah, clingy people are pretty annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybel
I think Gamma can really look out for the people they like and make sure they're good, especially people who have earned it. People they are loyal to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alomoes
Cough I'm an ESFp. Cough! I have stories and stuff. Nah, for real, I think the original purpose of this read was for other ESFp and me to share those experiences and discuss but I think the focus has shifted more to Q+A for ESFp, which I suppose is alright because it keeps the thread alive. Curiosity is nice in a sense, as long as it doesn't overshadow experiences. You can share memes as well, if you want. Don't bite.
I don't know you but you are so cute :hyper: I feel relax reading your post ~~
But why the "ILI sad boy"?. Those Fe Si people are often mistaken in thinking that I'm "sad", but I was just enjoy a daydream about some mangas's story...
I'm not an idiot, Dead, yes you say you are ESFp, I'm just going about my own stupid. My own stupid is infinite. Whenever I'm bored, I check this place for more information, and then feel obligated to provide some. Then I do.
Today I have actually met ESFp. Pretty good, actually organized, and basically does everything as I'd expect. Didn't expect to have to be literally perfect with my words otherwise they'll get confused. Mildly annoying, bit makes sense if you look at INTp's cognitive form, and ESFp's cognitive form.
Oh dang, ESI's cognitive thing is incredibly interesting to me, as it is exactly what I need, and ask for. They can probably help me consider every possible answer for this socionics crap, and then I'll pick the best one. It's not as easy as you think, it requires me writing down a bunch of crap, then checking if it passes for quality, then rewriting it if not. I get stuck on part 1, even though words per hour is super high.
I don't ask questions, I just dump information.
SEE
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...nist_Cognition
You can correct it as needed.
Also, Putin is SEE. This is because he's like Napoleon. And I mean in mannerisms and perceived awsomeness.
Also, Dead, when you're talking to a declaring person, don't expect them to ask questions, rather, ask questions. I will consider it in this case, to actively follow my own advice.
Why are you SEE? How did you reach that conclusion?
Fugg it. I was gonna send a reply but the stupid thing timed out on me. Hate it when it that happens.
I dunno how to get it back, so too bad.
That use to happen to me all the time. Hated it. Sometimes I copy what I write while I am writing in. just in case I need to paste it. But, sometimes I take it as a sign from the Universe to just leave it alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Yeah, it's really annoying ain't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by timber
So, today I watched TV. I learned things. I don't usually watch TV, but apparently gettig drunk is bad for your immune system.
cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Ask me something, I'm bored.Quote:
Originally Posted by timber
Aside from showing them the implications of their actions and direct them to tasks that are meaningful, I wonder what makes ILI a beneficial partner to SEE. What exactly does an SEE need regarding the intuition side of things? Pretty sure SEE don't also need much help in factual matters do they?
Also the other way around, what can SEE offer to an ILI? I may have missed a couple info but what I mainly saw from articles was about the socialization and networking aspects and how SEE can motivate the ILI.
Not like I've seen a lot of this pair irl so I couldn't really think of some concrete examples.
Also lol I'll just keep asking questions here about SEE of there is no set topic for this thread. Can we just post any random thing about SEEs here?
There was a SEE member here a couple years ago, HotSauce, I think, who said that she really appreciated the way that ILI's chill. She said they don't get jealous the way LIE's do. She had more praise for ILI's, but I can't remember it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
She returned for a day to say she was getting married to an ILI, IIRC. So she put her money where her mouth was.
Because I think that it's the best fit type for myself. I think that I'm not a BETA NF, and a DELTA NF or an ALPHA SF. I've toyed with the idea of Beta ST before, but I don't think that matches as well as Gamma SF does, for me anyway. I was thinking about ESI as well, but I'm not too sure on that because I think I display more Se and Fe than I do Fi and Si, even in a slump. I still get ESI suggested to me heavily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alomoes
Why not have someone fun as a partner? I think duality is really boring. Idealistic. Not much of a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
Hello Mr ESI seducer. Does she still come on here, or nah?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I'm singularly unsuccessful as an ESI seducer. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
But to answer your question, no, I haven't seen SEE HotSauce here for a while. I think you can do a search for her posts.
@DEAD Duality is boring in your experience? Anyways to answer your question I don't specifically look for someone fun, because sometimes it crashes later on. It doesn't matter if relationships are not the most fun as long as it can stand the test of time. I cannot just look for another one over and over everytime the current one fails me. Too much energy needed for that one, I could have just used that energy for other more important things. If I stay with them instead, I'll still waste energy fixing miscommunication and disconnect.
Oh too bad ;PQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Anyway thanks, that's a good idea.
I'd rather be in a fun shorter relationship than one that's boring and lasts. It just kills me. Maybe it's a introvert vs extrovert thing as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
Okay guys I made a video and want your honest opinions on it:
https://streamable.com/xbw2h5
Hi Dead,Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Just read the whole thread. You sound so ESTP! All your posts basically scream Ti/Fe.
Dual partner is actually so different than you that makes the dynamic interesting but still comfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
But if you want more challenge, then go for either semidual or mirage, or benefit, as long as you share the same judging functions.
P.S.
Cool video!
Really? I'm a confirmed ESTP in MBTI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett
People have these really stupid stereotypes that SLE are disciplined for some reason. When I think of SLE, I think of Jackass and Johnny Knoxville. Not some sort of hardened military general who has everything organised. Like, Donald Trump is SLE (don't care what anyone says) and he's the least disciplined person I know (him not being "organised and disciplined" was the stupidest reason I've heard for him not being Ti creative; look at Azelia Banks, she's commonly agreed upon to be SLE and she doesn't come across as either of those things from what I see of her. Is this another stupid gender stereotype also?). And I don't think SLE really give a crap about systems like LSI (sure, half of them don't really care either). People think Ti bases are all discplined and erudite and all this nonsense. People take the system and the theory really literal for intuitives. It's not about how you act, it's about how you process information.
Duality is a boring, overly idealised concept. Just because you find someone of the opposite type, it doesn't magically make things right. The whole "opposites attract" thing as well. Not every IxI will like you, and vice versa. It just depends on their interests as well, and outside factors. How well you gel outside of type and how you actually benefit each other.
Thanks.
Just wanted to agree with you about Duality working best when the people have common interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Yep, agree. I never think duality is based on attraction in the first place anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Exactly. Some people have the wrong idea about it. Some people think it's like a Harry Potter spell and they automatically are latched lol. Isn't Duality more like this video?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett
https://youtu.be/JX02QbeVIUg?t=14
(You have to click on the link, embed didn't work lol)
I'm replying to you both but I put it in one reply btw.
How did you enjoy your life?
Do you mean: How do I currently enjoy my life, or is this a reference to my username, "DEAD"? Well, I'll give you an answer:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moharu
1. I currently enjoy my life by watching movies with my friends, sometimes drinking copious amounts of alcohol, writing stories and eating food. I also read a bit, watch Youtube, research Socionics, sometimes go shopping and I make videos/music as well. Since most of the good places are closed cause of lockdown, most of my activies are at home. I'm also remodelling my bedroom and ordering some things online. I fgot some under the bed storage as well as a new bed. I'm loving the minimalistic look.
2. As for enjoying the afterlife... I'm not sure yet. I haven't made it there and if the world ends before I "die", I mightn't die at all in the sense of "death" as an experience.
Now that I know more about the theory, I don't even think I am ESFp.
Or am i overthinking it?
there are a lot of disparaging and cursory suppositions about what it is to be SEE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
I don't think I am one functionally.
I do not think I have creative Fi, or 4D Fe.
I think my Te is pretty good, as is my Se (duh).
Dead? Do you think Kevin Hart is SEE?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
I don't know. I haven't really looked into him :) Do you think that he might be?
My sister is Esfp. I couldn’t ask for a better sister. She makes my life fun! By taking me on fun outings and often being the life of the party- bringing people together, starting good convos or having a random adventure. Always has good tunes to play at top volume on a taxi ride ;)
And she’s a good listener and will do her best to provide emotional support and practical advice. She looks out for me a lot.
I think SEEs want to reach ‘a happy place’ in life and they want to take people on the ride with them. They make the effort to help people with practical needs and are very friendly with strangers, as if they want to spread a little bit of positivity everywhere they go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyR
Are you sure she isn't an ESE?
Yes sure! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Yes SEEs can look very different. It can take me a while to type them sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
I dunno, I don't get and buy that every single SEE wants happiness, wants to help people, be friendly and be positive. Gamma are negativist types, and pretty businesslike. I can be quite a skeptical person, and most certainly not a friendly one either. It takes people a while to warm up to me. I don't want to help everyone, unless they need it. Unless it makes sense to. I don't like this light interpretation of ethical types, nor SEE. As if it's the only state they can be. And also the almost robotical nature of logical types, being cold, and machine-like. Archetypes don't describe the whole situation, nor are they accurate but enough people seem to embody these archetypes as the reality that they're meant to help people understand. But archetypes aren't the whole, accurate story of reality. Neither are observations, though they tend to be more accurate than just archetypes. And because people don't see outside of the system, they miss the fact that the archetypes aren't the end all or be all of everything. It's a combination of IME, observations, archetypes and the raw data itself of how a person comes together.Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyR
Good stuff. I was trying to focus on the positives. I could say more negative things haha. But I don’t think it’s a healthy way for me to think about people. Also, I feel like SEEs already get a lot of criticism? Also, they are my semi dual so I like them ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
I have been reading about typology long enough that I feel a bit more confident sharing my opinions now. They may not be perfect descriptions but I hope they have value.
I hate people focusing on positives, without being balanced. It really annoys me. Positive thinking is as harmful as being completely negative, imo. So does sugarcoating things. I find it hard to like people on Socionics forums, especially people who act like stereotypes and archetypes (not saying everyone does) but a lot of people are predispositioned to do that, and it gets annoying after a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyR
I'm glad that you're getting more confident to sharing your opinions. I just share whatever I think, and you should too. Don't worry about other people.
SEEs aren’t usually that open with me about their inner struggles. But more is coming to mind now. I have seen a lot of problems with addiction (perhaps underneath the drinking is depression/anxiety?) And older SEEs who seem to have trust issues regarding relationships.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
ESFP Guys can be menacing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTzTkRU6mRY
ESFP guy throws a knife at the beginning of the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlDoZAC1uk
It depends on how healthy they are, and how they actually regulate and balance themselves. The more mature an SEE is, the more likey it is that they are gonna be cynical towards the world, based on everything they've learned up until then. And the light of the relationships begin to die down, the more actual experience is processed through Se and in return can fracture Fi, if not looked after properly. It's the same as older SLEs coming across as more LIE like. Because of the Ti becoming more wary as well, like Ni. It can seem like Te+Ni when it's just well-seasoned Se+Ti.Quote:
Originally Posted by BethanyR
As for addiction issues and impulsivity? That's not really exclusive to SEE. That's just poor impulse control in general, and it can happen to a lot of people when they're undisciplined or out of the loop. It's probably happening now because of the pandemic and people have no real outlet, as many places are still under lockdown when maybe they don't need to be as severe (due to less people and poor governing of death rates/infection rates per capita being calculated).
So every psychopath is SEE? ;) Also HOW can you tell that guy is SEE from like 3 seconds of footage? That's dumb and he's barely even throwing it or aiming at anything. Don't overexaggerate, dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by khcs
No they are not. It is better not to use the word psychopath. Even Robert D. Haare does not know its real meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
The knife throwing video was included only to show how good is the ESFP (SEE) with handling objects. They are able to become true jongleurs.
The ESFP tries to appear a little bit menacing when he feels being ignored by society.
This is from the guy who basically typed Megan Thee Stallion INFJ...Quote:
Originally Posted by khcs
You know nothing.
Megan Thee Stallion INFPQuote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Know enough. Your profile picture is ESFP.
LOL. What next? Einstein ESE?Quote:
Originally Posted by khcs
Yeah, but I'm not my profile picture and it's not me.
Of course it is not you, perhaps the same type as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Nah, I have Mahmood typed as a Beta NF. Maybe the music video is Se HA.Quote:
Originally Posted by khcs
I think that I am mistyped.
What else are you considering aside from SEE? If it's SLE only then it's easier to know which one is the correct type.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
That or a Delta ST. I ruled out ESI because that means genuinely giving a crap about ethics and morals and seeing the world totally through them. And I'm obviously not LSI because I don't need everything to be so hevily structured, nor rely solely on logic judgements. I think that IJ is too restricting, and I also think that I'm probably not an introverted type. I don't really spend a lot of time inside my mind. I'm most likely not an NT or NF type because I do not resonate with those IMEs or Alpha SF, so that leaves Beta ST, Gamma SF and Delta ST.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
Maybe it would be better if you assess yourself on Fi and Fe scale first. Do you mostly follow the mood of the social environment even if you feel otherwise?Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Delta STs are terrible at this, just like Gamma NTs. Either they know what they’ll say will ruin the mood or not, but either way they’ll rather put their views out there. It’s normal for these types to be social blackholes (at least for Fe valuers)
No, I don't see the point. Not that I can't most of the time, I just don't and I say what's on my mind and things when it has to be said.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
So it is also the case that you don't really have the need to be validated by others and have your feelings reciprocated (you may appreciate if people react to you but overall you just care about your own conviction)? If so, you should just focus on Delta and Gamma types.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
I barely care about either, to be fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by one
You should consider Delta/Gamma types but just to be sure you should check for Ti too. Why do you think you could be Ti ego?Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Yeah, if I am a Delta type, it's going to be an ST type because I do not think that I am intuitive, feeling type (NF) because I don't use Ne as a dominant function, and I don't have PoLR/Role Se. I definitely am not an idealist, nor am I much of a Humanitarian at all. I've been called pragmatic more times than I have a humanist. I do think that if Quadras have any value to them (which they might, but to me they come across as pretty "clique-ish", which may also be a product of the translations from Russian as well). I guess I have to do more research into the Quadras and see if they're as valid as I think they are:Quote:
Originally Posted by one
I think maybe I have Ti because:
- I want things to make sense for me, no matter what the case may be.
- I like to organise things based on an order that I think works best based on size (probably not Ti, but anyway).
- I like to learn things, and for them to be effective.
- I like to store up facts, and I like to accumulate knowledge about topics.
- I admit that I like to debate things for fun, but it's not a priority of mine.
- I try to be conistent and calm when I can (it's mostly my default mode).
- I also admit that I'm not the best arguer in terms of 'logic', unless I have my facts straight and my arguments ready (again, probably just common debate practice), but I can convince people nonetheless.
That's what I think. A lot of people think I am either SLE or SEE. It's mostly the SLE that think I am SEE, and the SEE that think I am SLE, weirdly enough. I also get the odd SLI/SLE suggestion, and have gotten LSI before. It's weird.
Your self-description seems inconsistent which may point to XEE but this may be due to word selection also:
to make sense, no matter what the case may be is more T-like
organise things based on an order is certainly Se
to learn things, and for them to be effective is more Ip-like
store up facts, and accumulate knowledge is more Ip-like
like to debate things for fun is more N-like
consistent and calm is more Ij-like
not the best arguer and arguments ready is more Ij-like
a.k.a. I/O
To be honest, some of the most inconsistent people I know are logical types and I don't think that has much to do with Typology in general. I think that's just "human things" and should be accounted for as such. No one is going to be totally consistent, or inconsistent. I don't know why that's counted as a part of a type at all. And I'm not really expecting to be accurately typed from that list. I'm just giving reasons and thoughts on the spot as to why I might be Ti ego. But thanks for your insight and breakdown of things but according that, I am probably more ST than SF or NF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
@DEAD
People that have a solid knowledge base in Socionics yet still have a lot of difficulty self-typing can usually trace the cause to belonging to a strong lead or creative subtype. EX: My logic gave me higher intuition than other SLIs and obscured some base function traits. Hope that helps.
Some body language/facial expression resource for your top 2 types
SEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKA35IrcEvo
SLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnGtPguW0oM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Well if I am SxE, I am definitely an Se subtype. But I agree more with the SLE video, even in the comparisons between the types (though, this is still based more on MBTI, right?) Steve Irwin was WAAYY too passionate and expressive for me, but I get the gist of it.