Printable View
So I've met a young female ESTj that I find attractive. I want to hang out with her outside of work hours but she says she's really busy with work. Am I shit out of luck?
Feel free to discuss ESTj women and work in general. I find them to be hard workers but willing to relax in ways that I don't find irritating.
Hard workers. Usually managers of people, organizing people. Like to keep someone around who can help work be less boring/mundane/predictable. Doesn't put up with any bs. Proactive. Always running around doing something. Busy busy busy. Sometimes frantic like they are managing their stress levels all day. Can be workaholic, pulling crazy hours a week. Sometimes no life outside of work. Work hard all year and then go on an expensive vacation or to some expensive event types. Direct, will yell if they have to. Has to do the thing their way or the way they were told, needs proof from higher ups if there is a change in procedure. If not a manager will be a co-worker-manager. Actually will tell you how to do your job even if not a manager.. Professional smiles.
Don't think you're SOL, they probably are really busy, try to get them when they are not so busy.
My mom is LSE. I don’t know how LSE are when not single, but my mom had a pretty clear plan of what she wanted to do in life pretty much since she was a teenager. She married my dad who’s SLI at 19 and he was 23. They both wanted to have children and build a life together, wanted to own property, make a lot of money, travel. My mom didn’t become a workaholic until I was 11 because by then she felt like I could be on my own sufficiently. My mom went through a lot of hell both with my dad and life in general and didn’t complain about any of it. I think the closer you are to an LSE, that’s how you know you’re tough enough for them to consider you their equal. Otherwise, they like taking care of others because they think it’s their duty.
I don’t think you’re SOL. I think you have to work hard to go after her and be sure that you want her. You have to show you’re serious with your goals and plans and carry them out so she sees that you’re reliable. LSE don’t want to take chances on something that’s not the sure thing. That’s the main thing both my parents nagged me about- setting goals and achieving them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Today was the 2nd time I mentioned hanging out with her. I told her that I am open to hang out whenever she has free time. She just graduated from college, has a full time job and volunteers for an organization. Today she mentioned she had something to do with her parents. I don't see her being free for a while. I don't know how she feels about me. She says she trusts me but she said that in a way that sounded like she didn't fully trust me. Like the semi-dual description said, conversation isn't boring, which is a reason I want to hang out with her. I'm hesitant to be more aggressive with her because I don't want to offend her. What I want is to have me in mind whenever she's free to socialize.
I think I've done what I can. I guess I'll have to wait. :/
Yes, I can see that. I did have an ESTj friend that was also a woman. She was very goal oriented.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnatchYourWeave
My intentions with her aren't serious. Talk, maybe smoke some weed, see if she's open to making out or something.
I honestly don’t think that’s a good way to approach. They’re not likely the ones to come back to you and say “ok I’m free now!” You have to catch them and get them to make time for you. FYI You can’t pressure them because they don’t feel pressure or obligation if you’re not family or really close friends.
My dad asked my mom 42 times to go out on a date before she accepted. I thought maybe that’s a weird thing between my parents but maybe not. LSE have suggestive Fi and do want to feel like they’re needed. My mother told me many times that I should only get with a guy who needs me more than I need him. I’ve talked to some LSE females around my age and they want someone who keeps up with them, match in energy and then some and they like a guy to be persistent.
Lol if that’s the case, nah you’re not good enough. Why you want someone like that? You’ll only bring her down.Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ouch. I have things to offer even if they aren't ideal. Smoking weed is how she relaxes.
I'm open to change the plans. All that matters to me is the Fi connection.
Edit: I want the Fi connection but I'm not willing to be in a long term commited relationship. I guess I'll just have to forget it.
I'm not LSE; I'm LIE, so I don't know if this applies: I like things to be very straightforward.Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
Are you as busy as she is? if not, it can seem like longer than it is when you're waiting.
also...if you don't want anything serious, tell the Te-ego that. And explain VERY literally what you're interested in and what you're not
I keep busy with hobbies and work. I'm not working towards any specific career goals at this moment. Like how literally? "I see us getting along really well but I'm not looking for anything anything serious. I want a relationship for x amount of months then we'll evaluate our relationship after x amount of months has passed. I also really want to touch your butt."Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
Edit: she did once mention that she was lonely.
I'd want even more frank. "This is what I want to do in a relationship: (...)"Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
'Relationship' is vague to me.
But I'm gamma. I'm not exactly like an LSE
Also, I now have to point out you've said you want two mutually exclusive things.Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
A) you don't want anything beside a makeout and weed sesh.
B) you want a relationship and then to evaluate staying together for longer as a real possibility.
Those are mutually exclusive. That would be unclear to me.https://media.giphy.com/media/ZE8pOE7h53wYw/giphy.gif
Okay. I feel an explanation is in order so I'm not seen as a stupid fool who doesn't know what they want.
I keep an eye toward the future and right now the future is very uncertain. I am currently in a vulnerable position right now with my future on the line.
Depending how the election plays out, I could be facing a fate worse then death. If things turn out well, yeah sure I would like a short term relationship with the possibility of something more. If things don't, I would like to smoke weed with her and just make out. Does that make more sense?
you didnt seem like a stupid fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
and your explanation is important
Base T prefer reasonable plans. If they are interested - it's possibly to discuss the time for a meeting.
Just to offer something mb rejected as they are planed something other already. They should to have a plan for resting time too, which you should to know from them.
Also Te/Fi types do not like harsh talking alike "shit out of luck". To talk politely and softly will be perceived better.
I don't speak harshly around her. I am polite. I have had a previous experience with an ESTj where I was made a blunt (and possibly rude) comment about her taste in men. She later said she wanted to punch me in the face.
or move on. Perhaps this girl simply isn't into you.Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
Yes, I have thought of that possibility. But when I asked her the first time to hang out, she first replied maybe, which leads me to believe she's at least open to the idea. Also, if she really values directness, I feel like she would've out right said no. Also, ESTjs aren't cowards. She wouldn't be afraid of outright rejecting me. I know a lot of women try to let men down easy to avoid any potential anger from the man thet are rejecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by consentingadult
The possibility of her saying yes is still there. But I'm not attached to her. I'll move on for now.
BTW, did you literally ask her to 'hang out with you'?
well, and it seems presumptuous and petty and self-interested to talk about it when you are a man, as though you have an ulterior, selfish motive.Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
Yes. I used the words "hang out." I specifically avoided using the word "dating" because a) I wanted things to be low key. B) we only talk for a half an hour at a time, once a week, at the end of her tail end of her shift. We don't live in the same neighborhood so that would probably be the best time to spend time together. c) I don't do dinner dates on the first date. D) what else kind of date can I do with the virus out there?
Why do you ask? Do you think she would have been more receptive if I used the word "date"?
Eh? I don't understand. Talk about what?Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
I ask because LSEs are often serious people with serious agenda's. Next time you are having an interest in such a girl, tell her that you really would like to get to know her better, then offer to buy her a drink. The underlying message you will be sending out, is that you consider her 'relationship material', instead of something of a less serious nature. It will demonstrate purpose and a goal. 'Hanging out' could mean anything, including you trying to get into her panties on a one-night stand.
Okay.I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by consentingadult
I don't drink. That's why I wanted to smoke weed with her. But that's a minor detail.
to talk about men someone has chosen to date and shit on the choices makes it seem, since you are a hetero or bi man, like you may be trashing someone because you want to be the man she datesQuote:
Originally Posted by falk
you weren't expressing friendly concern by asking a question. You just threw it out there and shat on them and her past choices. it can be insulting to them or her or both.
I recognize that was shitty thing to do. I was definitely not healthy when I said that.
'Drink' could also mean a cup of coffee. But never mind, I'm afraid that these 'minor' details are a bit of an obstruction in your way ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
I wouldn´t second guess Te doms too much. In my youth, I also told told some attractive women I didn´t have time for them because I was busy with training and college. Was not a move to make them more interested - even tho some thought it was. Ask again and make it clear, if she is interested she will find some time sooner or later
What do you want out of this relationship?Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
Oh you missed my story in chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
I want to touch her butt. She has a nice butt. :p
I'll make a new thread about it when I get home.
weirdQuote:
Originally Posted by falk
sounds lacking in any spiritual depth
I was being facetious. I'll explain when I get home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
But seriously I do like her butt.
If she's dissing you it means she doesn't find you attractive. An LSE who finds someone attractive will go and see them or pull them aside at work and give them their attention.
dissing? I dont think she's dissed himQuote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
ignoring and brushing off or to the sideQuote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
She hasn't dissed me. Whenever I strike up a conversation, she is receptive. Not at all dismissive. She hasn't displayed any of the behaviors you mentioned but I chalk it up to her being busy with customers all day. Like I said before, we talk for a half an hour at the tail end of her shift. I don't I interrupt her when she needs to concentrate on a task. I am perhaps overly sensitive to any signs that she wants to be left alone. When she's in a bad mood, I don't talk to her. I haven't been offensively blunt, rude or have displayed any negative qualities associated with Se.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
I am very confident that I'm physically attractive. I am not model handsome or Chad Thundercock but several women (not related to me) have called me cute, handsome and even pretty. I'll post a picture up in the relevant thread. I am confident she at least finds me cute.
then why don't you ask her out by saying "would you like to get lunch with me sometime?"Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
@falk, both my sister and my mother are LSE, and both of them dated strictly on their terms. They laughed at guys who approached them if they didn't like the guy, and both gave ultimatums to their SO's to get them to marry them. Both are in charge of the marriage and the home. Why you'd want this for your future is beyond me, but good luck to you. Bear in mind that in order to make an LSE respond positively to you, you will have to act like an EII. Give that some serious thought.
I'll add that I think Caregiver-Aggressor sex is probably not the best thing in the world. I can say with some authority that Caregiver-Victim sex sucks. But good luck touching her butt.
This is actually, entirely, completely, true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych
my husband asked me to marry him after three dates. I guess that's an ultimatum lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
You thought it might be a good idea, so he didn't have to give you a "Do it now or I'll never have anything to do with you ever again" ultimatum. My SLI father wasn't so sure as you were. Neither was my IEI now-brother-in-law. Turns out both of them should have listened to their concerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
I'll repeat what I said in chat. I have a severe mental illness. It requires medication for the rest of my life. I do not wish for her to become tangled in my life as my future is uncertain. I desire a positive experience with her. Yes, I would like to have sex with her but knowing how conservative ESTj women are in that aspect, I'm not expecting it. My previous long term relationship with an ESE has taught me that just because the sex is good that doesn't mean you are compatible. If I just wanted to get my rocks off, I'd go for another ESE. Or an EIE.
wow strange combinationsQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Why not an LIE?Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
Personally, if a female ESI-Se 6w5 sp/sx wanted to sleep with me, she wouldn't have to ask twice, medical problems or not.
I am yielding in relationships. But if we sleep together, I'll take in account her sexual preferences (if she has preferences. She's probably a virgin) but I expect to be the dominant one in bed. If ENTj women weren't difficult to find irl, I'd probably go for themQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Is your horniness at or above the level of a typical LIE's? This is important information if falk is to make an informed choice. ツQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
how much more aggressive can you get? just wonderingQuote:
Originally Posted by falk
Would you like first hand expeiernce? PM me ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
But seriously I don't know. I once literally picked up a female IEI with a hug and started moving her around. She seemed to enjoy that very much. Does that answer your question?
no I don't like SeQuote:
Originally Posted by falk
My husband is LSE and we have sex twice a night. That's all the first hand I need
Probably above. But for me, as Psych's post #40 stated, horniness is a decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
I will say that the horniness of the other person has a strong influence on my decision.*
*
Like I said before, she's busy with work. We live in different neighborhoods. The best opportunity I see to see each other outside of work would probably be after both our shifts are over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
I admire your desire not to have a person affected.Quote:
Originally Posted by falk
Some advice I keep getting is it's the other person's right to decide. Remember that someone might choose it sand you two might find ways to make it work
I mean did you ask her to smoke? Just ask her when she smokes and say you'll come by. She's already got the thing set in place and all you have to do is join her already planned out thing. It's convenient.
I'll ask. I was thinking we could make weed brownies. I'm still thinking she'll say no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
Wow, that's really obvious and simple. Thank you.
@falk I was in a similar situation some months ago; it didn't work out, in part because I pigeoholed the relationship even before knowing the person. Now I think it's unproductive to be like "I want to be FWB with you" before anything has happened, because it makes you act with this end in mind, makes you try to shape every interaction to fit this motivation; it makes you blind to what is happening/what could happen. Relationships don't work like that; they are messy and unpredictable. Even one night stands aren't based on some contract people sign beforehand; by labelling so I didn't allow myself to get to know the other person at all and I didn't allow things to happen naturally. Labelling and coming up with expectations before even having any meaningful contact made me unable to connect in the first place. Maybe give yourself a chance to see this gal as more than just a side dish.
There is this saying "people only accept the love they think they deserve". As much as touching butts and smoking weed is satisfying, don't you think you deserve more ? That you deserve someone that would understand you and support you in your struggles? I know you said that you don't want more for now; but what I hear is that you're ready to settle for less than what most people deserve or aim for. I know you didn't ask for advice and that you're the only one to decide what you want to do. I don't even know if what I said applies to you. I just want to share things that helped me personally, hoping it will help you.
Quoting for awesomeness. Plus, it's advice I could use.Quote:
Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb
Only thing is, Gammas are more frank like that. They are like, "Just put it on the table and quit with the shilly-shallying." Deltas don't mind the still un-clarified, back and forth of the get-to-know-you phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
Also, perhaps their dual can correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure LSE's have trust issues. She may be considering Falk, but stays on reserve while she decides when she is willing to take the leap of trust. EIIs are pretty trust-able, so if Falk just is patient (as EIIs often are) and maintains that interest, LSE will notice, have time to work out the trust issue. And LSEs usually are the one to take the lead and act. She won't forget you expressed interest. In fact, it might be good to sometimes (in whatever way suits the situation) pull back a bit, act disinterested, or distracted instead of open or eager, at a time when you normally would be interested. Just to test the waters. If she is liking your interest, that will make her say or do something to keep you looking at her.
Maybe a specific suggestion of something you think the LSE would enjoy going out to do would be better. They are super busy but they schedule in time for things they enjoy. Probably she does need and enjoy some relaxing time, and would enjoy it with Falk but I think they don't usually plan the relaxing time so much. That will come naturally after she decides Falk is someone she wants in her life. I suggest Falk just keep being himself, being present and in the moment with her when he can, and keep up those nice conversations when possible. Her loneliness will make her act. And the LSE is big on acting. Usually the extroverts initiates. So wait for it.
(Also a good person to ask is @DirectorAbbie)
Reading Eliza's post just above mine and then thinking about when I get asked out by a colleague, I think it might be wise not to do this. I'm not sure about this situation. For me, a colleague saying this is very similar to a colleague insisting they are showing up whether I am up for it or not. That's kinda rude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
I think I usually ask out if it's a colleague and not the other way around, but I find it goes smoother when the asker gives their phone number.
Well I don't mean like force his way. Say "I can show up." if that's less rude and gives them the option to decline. And he can't just show up if she doesn't give him an address.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
Well damn, this makes me feel like I failed as an EII lol. Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb
Do you guys need me to come and help you?
LSE men and women chase me lol
it has nothing to do w workQuote:
Originally Posted by falk
if she likes you, she'd switch her schedule around to find time for u. if she says she's busy it's typically girl language for "I'm not interested in u at this time"
I'd forget about her / move on for now.. maybe down the road another opportunity will open up but don't bank on it, just play it cool
Here's what I'm going to do:
Wait and play it cool.
I have found that ESTjs tend to suck you up into their projects and when you choose not to participate, they're usually not put off by this but it can often lead to them leaving you behind; you'll likely have to demonstrate to them in some way that you can measure up. I wrote this description of them:
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O
a.k.a. I/O
this sentence is healthy. no one has to be cruel to date only on their own terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
dating should be on each person's terms
My boss likes to knit, just like @DirectorAbbie :thinking: LSE confirmed. I thought she might be LSI at first, back when I had the wrong impression of the type. LSE makes so much more sense for her, she has valued Si for sure and her Te is 100% there. She used to be a teacher, now she is the director at our company. Hardass woman, makes the STs in production run scared. Her Te is annoying, she is very difficult to get along with, always needs to have her own way (kinda rigid and anal), but for some reason very understanding and sensitive to other ppl's health needs (is that Si?). Morality seems to be very important to her as well.