What are values, and why do I need them? Go.
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What are values, and why do I need them? Go.
To not be a shameless ball of pleasure seeking shit
Why is this a problem? How do values help prevent this?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingslayer
Can’t being a shameless ball of pleasure seeking shit be a value? It seems like a lot of people sure are like that and enjoy it and are just fine. If not, why not?
Gonna get a bit wee-woo.
Cannibalism and incest are proscribed and looked down upon because they are a contradiction to the work discipline of capitalism; the consumption and consummation of thyself, the Love to thyself impede on the mechanization of the self as a mere tool for capital reproduction. Thus they are formulated as an evil Other; but it is important to keep in mind that moral categories of good and evil do not exist a priori. They are ascribed ad hoc to reify the norms of one particular mode of production. Morality is a tool of discipline, not universality. We cannot then conceive of the Other as natural or right, because our comprehension of our selves is so predicated upon the mechanization of thereof whereby our bodily and psychological faculties are constituted as means of production; a machine; meant to be used just for work.
Its a problem because it's not good for your body, brain, or the people around you. Values help give people something to adhere to. They can feel good for following it. They can use it to relate to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
It can be a value i guess. It's pretty subjective though. Not really adhering to external order or realty. Just following dopamine rushes. The point of values is more so to have some internal standards or expectations of ones self to me.
Think of it as your own personal standards.
While a rule may be something externally imposed on you,
Your values are something imposed on you + by you.
A rule/law can be bad...
Say there's a law that says you can't drive faster than 55 mph on an absolutely desolate rural freeway (those kinda rules stink).
Your values, on the other hand, if well thought out, can be a good thing:
For instance, "I will never eat X" (Pretend X is something notoriously bad) Is a good thing because it'll increase your long-term happiness.
In sum, values are your own personal standards, which if well thought out, guide you and keep you on track in the long-run.
Thank u SLI Confucius daddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by snek
So it sounds like you think people made values for work, but SLIs don’t like work, so do you actually not believe in / value values ? I’m confused now. Kon-fu-ze-d
Fuck off, you fucking jerk. @snek 's dick is mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Nice text but does this mean you're gonna fuck your family and eat them?Quote:
Originally Posted by snek
So you're something in this shit world. If you have values, you're someone of value.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Wait, but if the point of values is to have some internal standards, and valuing being a hedonistic sack of shit *doesn’t* adhere to external order/reality (meaning it’s more internally-defined), then doesn’t the value of being a hedonistic sack of shit fit the definition of a value perfectly?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingslayer
It’s okay, everybody has more than one holeQuote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Something
It's fine, i'm no longer interested, snek's into incest and cannibalism, her dick must got some weird illnesses that yet have to be discoveredQuote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
What if you ARE shit though? It’s a shit world, so what makes you think you aren’t just shit also? If the goal is to value yourself, then you’ll just label everything that’s an echo/extension of yourself as being valuable as well. You’ve just defined yourself as valuable already, or able to even begin to choose values correctly in this shit world. How do you know what is valuable and what’s shit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Something
Because I say so, anything that benefits me or I approve of is valuable, to me. I'm selfish as fuck and whatever. Just because I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
If you have values you'll probably know what you want, and knowing what to want is important to get ahead in life, you have goals, a destiny, now you just gotta work for it.
Thank you Firey daddy. Good answer. Your stanky butthole :Ni: Ha third-eye never fails me. :love2:Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireee
Okay, that’s also an acceptable answer to me. I value your :Te: HA answer :love: .Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Something
I have about as much value as this drink:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/64cda828...46ac65ff49.gif
My Mam still likes me though, so there's that...
Understanding the values behind internal logic is just:
https://media2.giphy.com/media/hWvES...Mrf8/giphy.gif
I tried to find a gif of someone with a bikini on the ground getting alcohol bukkaked but I couldn’t find one so here you go instead while you imagine the above:Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...flD_-LrKadKytA
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...12/279/f0b.gif
There are no values lol. It would be like a calculator having values.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
That’s interesting. So are you saying that you look at what people claim that they value and compare it to their actions and other words to gain psychological insight on them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stance
And it has about this much personality too:Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6Mb...YJR0FG/200.gif
Well this may be a bit out there but I see Capitalism as an artificial intelligence that subsumes everything in its path to maximize human production, which has affected every level of human society including "morals", I guess it's fun to talk about how it distorts stuff. The above was just an example, not really particularly related to type. Another example could be how "manners" are a euphemism for conditioning your children to become part of a domesticated labour force and be polite. The need to be polite comes from a need to become a part of the established societal order, subjecting is to this order. You need to condition your children in order for them to fit in with the prior generation of conditioned children, and then you pat yourself on the back and call yourself a good parent for adjusting your children so well. Gotta ensure the reproduction of capital after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Morality is inescapable, even though it's boring af. If you live within a human group, power dynamics have a clear moral dimension, but the sheer pretense of universal ethics is not only boring and mundane, it's really tiresome. Zaps energy and delivers little. There's Utilitarianism which is fun to talk about I guess but I think guiding oneself by general rules of behaviour (rather than case-by-case analysis) is unrealistic and leads to absurd results.
edit: my boss called me a lazy stuck up bitch after refusing to work overtime and telling him to suck it. In fact being 'lazy' is probably one of my defining characteristics, dunno if it's common in SLIs
I usually feel like if you have to verbalize or claim that you have a certain value, especially when going out of one’s way to do so, you either don’t actually have it, and/or are superficially using it as a way to control or influence others. “Valuable traits” to me implies action and are derived by actions that benefit, and words are what people use to substitute for action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stance
In other words, not always, but more often than not, I find that when people go out of their way to emphasize that they have certain values, integrity actually runs lower than average and it’s bs that they can’t back up.
Interesting analysis. I agree with this. Mb bc we’re irrational type-kun/kin.Quote:
Originally Posted by snek
immunity to game theory
less vacuum to be automatically filled by non-yours values
Personally I don’t even like being held accountable in a positive way. People often use telling you that you’re a “good person” (based on actions that benefit them, not on careful thought of what that means to you or objectively) as a substitute for providing material benefit, and as a way to manipulate you. Even if they don’t do it consciously, I don’t think the assessments of others is a good thing to base one’s ego on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stance
As an SEE, what exactly is a value to you woof?Quote:
Originally Posted by woofwoofl
What type do u think I am? I considered SEE once. For a moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Wow lol years is a long moment. I’ve always thought SEE for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Peace is a lie; there is only Passion.
Through Passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I achieve victory.
Though victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
The force of me forcing my dick up your :Se:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grendel
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Is it also prolapsing as you’ve foreseen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grendel
Yes, but I also got aids cum, and that's all that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Another IEI explained it to me this way (because the word 'values' to me before he helped me with it just honestly sounded like something people used when they wanted to have a type of self-righteous false power over others)
Values are about a preference. Do you prefer this or that. So in their very nature & essence, values are a Fi thing. That's all they are. Do you value this over that etc.. So you value being rich over being poor, etc. I think they become problematic when a person thinks they are better than other people because they have "values" and they assume the other person doesn't, just because their values are different from their own. It's also a problem if they are too vague. The source of a lot of Beta vs. Delta misunderstandings and grief lol.
You already understand values very well in a Te way I think because you have 4D Te (you have a good sense of systematic morality & rules which is a Te thing) and so you kinda get them also in a Fi way since Te/Fi is connected, but because Fi is your polr and Fi is all about preferences and personal attraction/repulsion- that is the part that's confusing you. But looking at values like that- like the other IEI helped me with it, you can see more what they are beyond the way self-righteous snobby people use it to attack others they don't like.
I think what makes Fi Fi (and my polr) is the sense that when you “like” or are attached to something, attraction/repulsion creates certain impacts on people’s perception and impressions of other things. E.g. it creates a “halo effect” on related things and makes people’s brains automatically demonize everything that reminds them of what opposes their likes. How this works is mysterious to me and losing objectivity in lieu of “likes” is undesirable in some, or many cases, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by BandD
For real?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I often say that I lack "values" because I don't often say something or someone is good/bad or make value judgements easily.
Logical deduction gets you further to the truth imo. Although logical deduction can be seen as values, if it's a system you can also apply to many things I suppose.
I think everyone feels like they don't live up to the person that they want to be regardless of type sometimes.
That being said, I don't think values have to be internal. It can be something vague that can apply externally like I won't act rude/jealous/inconsiderate of the people I'm around throughout my day. It helps keep people in check, in a way.
Oh wait nvm, I thought you were a totally different person who I type SEE. Honestly idk who you are lol. So... I guess based on your current behavior, yeah you do seem SEE. But you could be acting like that because you think you’re SEE lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
This is a good point. I like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by LMFAO
Most people would think of this as Fe.
I’d like to ask you: what would you say is the reason for not doing the bolded?
what you like and want more than other
For example, related:
Se - property, higher interest to money
Si - sensual pleasure, higher interest to physical comfort
I dunno. I get everything from SLE to EIE and ESE SEI IEI IEE ILE and SEEQuote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CongratulationsQuote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Come back to me in 3 months. If you haven’t decided you are not Ti valuing type and likely not Te ego either.
Unless of course you have the money and naivety to pay DarkAngelFireWolf69 to type you. In that case, you are LSI.
There's three sources of virtue. They are wine, women and song.
Wine is the source of the virtue of drunkenness.
Women are the source of the virtue of sensuality.
Song is the source of the virtue of harmony.
From the virtues of drunkenness and sensuality we lead the virtue of lust.
From the virtues of sensuality and harmony we lead the virtue of dance. From the virtues of drunkenness and harmony we lead the virtue of laziness.
Combined the virtues of lust, dance and laziness create the seventh virtue of indulgence.
Without wine, women and song all that is left is sadness. From the antithesis of sadness we find the final virtue of happiness.
These are the eight divine virtues.
This is the worst post on the entire forum. LMAOQuote:
Originally Posted by Smilex
Achievement unlocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Values can be anything, but I think they often have a form of usefulness.
Let's take the example of incest, raised above. It has been prohibited pretty much everywhere, at all times. There is a main theory about this : people have to take partners outside of the close circle because it gives an economic advantage (by uniting resources).
Actually, values are studied by sociologists, and I'm a bit suprised we haven't seen any (or students) on this thread yet, with that many people interested in the humanities.
I get stuck on values.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
I’m not sure if “morality” and “values” are interchangeable, but I just wanted to comment that sometimes I feel an uncomfortable clash within myself between being Jane Fonda and being Donald Trump on the moral spectrum. But do I -value- being good? Depends on who’s watching.
I’m broke, Ese lol. Do I look like I’m made from money? Once I had to pay for something and was shocked I had the exact money.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd say to minimize conflict, misunderstandings, &/or tension between people. Give them freedom, in a way.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
& Thanks. I feel like I try to approach things in a different way than how people normally see ideas like this a lot of times. It's the stuff I spend time analyzing on, at times.
Every single one of us on here could be a sociology professor and simply not be telling anybody.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaruchJorgell
I’m not sure how you’re judging that over the internet lol. I’m surprised you don’t remember your credit card number and CVV :) . But actually I used to work with a sociology professor.
...big tittie goth girls.Quote:
Originally Posted by LMFAO
All a$$ over here :PQuote:
Originally Posted by shotgunfingers
values can't be Fi but not Ti. Ti just does is differently: think of someone who lives by a code of conduct based on an ideology of what is right/wrong. I would think Ti is actually good at maintaining a consistent system of rules/values. If one is really gung-ho about it, they can meticulously make sure their actions match the code.
Values are what you force down other people's throats, so that your own perceived interests are served best. I believe Sartre said something to this effect, and I concur.
It's actually Unity, Duty, and Destiny. Matoran are unity, Toa are duty, Turaga are destiny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilex
You see a charming fellow with a peacock feather in his cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grendel
Welacom, welcome! Tis always a pleasure to see a new face. And what may I call thee?
A pleasure, to be sure. I hope I'll be seeing a lot more of you.
He gives you a sly wink
I travel all over to spread important news throughout the realm - and tales and songs as well.
You look like the sort who knows how to enjoy a good story.
He tells you of ships sailing off the edge of the world, of earthquakes, and mad wizards, and fierce battles.
He speaks of spells that halt the flow of time, a man who found a way to fly, and the strange secret of the wisps.
He tells you that there are two bands of gypsies who travel the King's Way, who are often mistaken for each other.
He speaks of the pirate ship Empire, which was much dreaded in its day, and of the giant ants that can be found in the Dry Land.
Your head is filled with wondrous visions.
My personal values are contrary to common sense. LOL. Not seeing eye to eye your fellowman so to speak as in understanding each other neither do I and neither do them. End of story.
For example:
Random person: "I'm gonna die as virgin!"
Me: "Wise choice, dude."
Me: "This seems difficult."
Random person: "Yes it does. Just leave it."
Me: "Wut! It just got interesting!"
Me: "I'm not like this and I never will be."
Random person: "Oh, it is not so bad."
Me: "Wut. At least I'm not like a common peasant."