Which type skates through life and, conversely, which type must battle society the hardest?
I know these questions must have a definite and unequivocal answer so I expect you to argue your case firmly.
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Which type skates through life and, conversely, which type must battle society the hardest?
I know these questions must have a definite and unequivocal answer so I expect you to argue your case firmly.
How firmly?
https://live.staticflickr.com/3266/3...508ce291_b.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Are we talking "happy go lucky" or "unaware of problems and doesn't care" or "too dumb to notice" or "has the easiest time achieving their goals"?
You pick. Whichever thing on that list makes life easiest. I could pick one, objectively, but I don't wanna give it away.
After doing some thinking I'd also say ESE. I think quite weirdly EIE might have the darkest but darkness can be good, I guess.
Gamma extraverts, SLE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic 007
I know an EIE male with an LSE father, which is not the best situation to have, but this guy seems to bring problems on himself.
He bought a motorcycle and crashed it and spent a year in a wheelchair. His dad paid for all the bills and the physical therapy.
He got addicted to pain medicine and his dad paid for his mental therapy.
He started a business making guitars and his dad bankrolled it and the EIE crashed it just as they got a working product.
He made himself a pain around the house, so his dad bought him a house in the country, just to get him out of his face.
An LSI with a job married him (did I mention that he doesn't have a job?), then he cheated on her with a bimbo whom he didn't even like. The LSI threw him out.
I think, when you are a master of Fe, that ordinary life can become boring, and you have to set yourself up with greater than ordinary challenges just to stay entertained.
That’s a big fat yes, Adam! I’m so glad you put what’s been swirling in my head for a long time now into words. :) And regardless of my type, I’m still 4D Fe no matter what so it works either way!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
This is such a non-question it's hard to even give a sarcastic answer.
Depends. Lots of variables are at play but I'll speak to the most contentious one for me > the socio-cultural sphere.
In my experience, MBTI frequency stats line up pretty well with the corresponding frequency for Sociotypes. There tends to be a slight variation according to geographical location but, overall, strong Si valuing types comprise the vast majority of human beings and strong Ni valuing types are the rarest, which significantly impacts the "narrative" around these functions as archetypes.
And, albeit more competitively, strong Fe valuing types edge out strong Te valuing types and so high D Si + Fe would seem to take the day while Ni + Te would be the most "othered." Not for nothing, Alpha SFs and Gamma NTs are conflictors but the former have sheer numbers on their side. Within the cultural zeigeist, the arc villains of the world disproportionately tend to be Gamma NTs--ruthless pragmatism, strategic vision, the pursuit and accumulation of money/power/resources may be wearily respected to a certain degree (especially within a Western capitalist framework) but more than that, they are feared and distrusted.
I don't think it's the Gammas, although they try -- for them, it's more that they try to make it appear so, especially the intuitive Gammas with their low Se flashiness. I don't think it's the Betas either, since they tend to be either too focused on their own thing, or, when it comes to the sensors, too brash, maybe. When it comes to the Deltas, I think they make it hard for themselves. Don't ask me why. And as for the Alphas, the intuitives... well, because they really don't care about our mortal flesh in the physical realm, they let themselves be taken care of the Alpha sensors, who probably have the easiest time, which seems to be the consensus here :)
I get some fear and distrust vibes in meetings which have all types in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonzo
If Gamma NT's are respected at all, it is because they are successful in the present Western world of Capitalism, in which everyone has been indoctrinated to like money.
Move the party to the the Theater or Story Telling or Cooking or Nurturing or Sports events or Pure Science, and it's a different story.
I'd say ILE-Ti have it easiest overall, especially if they're psychopaths although female ILE-Ti who aren't psychopaths don't have it 100% easy because of stereotypes and because they hate dealing with too many incompetent suitors and given their beauty and charm they're followed by more incompetent suitors than most or all other types. LIE get so angry, so I don't think they have it easiest, although they have it easier than most.
ESI-Fi probably have it hardest. Their anxiety and neediness and being critical yet sensitive to criticism and not having great social skills and not being very aware of their environment probably means that they have it the hardest.
life is very pain
Sounds like that person has never found the right path. That business part was basically doing super ego work, very close to conflictor work – any type would go insane. Obviously it should be about social ideas or conducting some sort of research. Failures make people dwell too much on creative which turns person into depressive mess which is like super bad for EIE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I've been thinking my little sister might be ESE and she seems like she will go places in life and has it very easy socially.
I agree that EIE's seem to have it rough, but great art and such can come out of this. EIE's seem to give the impression of being confident, but have an opposite feeling inside often times and an intense feeling of loneliness even when in the company of others. It seems very painful. I'm not speaking for all of this type at all, just a couple that I have known, one being my dad (I'm pretty sure...)
I'm not sure if they have it the hardest of all the types though. It's culturally dependent also I think. For example, certain types may have it easier in more laid-back societies for example, than they do in such "success" driven cultures
*update* I think my sister is actually EIE
IEE have it easiest in life.
I have an IEE coworker who always seems so chirpy all the time, he is always singing away at work. I don't think I've ever seen him depressed before, except for that one time when he got scolded by an LSI manager of mine.
Ease or difficulty with day-to-day living has more to do with intelligence, mental health, and or whether or not one is born with privileges - and of course, there's luck. Type merely indicates the data processing structure with which one is born; any one type may possess better inherent tools for specific situations but type certainly wouldn't ensure success. Life in general is too broad having far too many situations for any one type to reign supreme. Now, there are many who are happy with their lives simply because they're oblivious........:content:
a.k.a. I/O
XYZA type
The one with a very large inheritance that doesn't have to work for money ever, but also has the wisdom to use it to find satisfaction and meaning out of their life. You know, instead of just doing drugs, alcohol, and just being a hedonist.
Which type is that? maybe it's not a type.
The obvious answer would be no type.
IEI spotted?Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaDoodoo
hot take: introverts have a better time. extroversion doesn't translate to social adjustment/aptitude. it just means you're more dependent on outside stimulus like you would be with a drug
Not sure. For me personally I struggled a lot growing up basically being a male Carrie (roflmao) and feeling abused, bullied and condescended by via others, which also made me get revenge at times. I also frequently irritated others with how poor I was at logical/technical things. I butted heads with asshole state agents a lot like Neo from the Matrix. As a child I naively wanted the world to be genuine and kind (Ha! Like that will ever happen.) - but I got out of bad situations being emotionally manipulative instead. Yeah I do agree Fe is emotionally manipulative as hell but it often works - so suck it bitches!
It's a lot better for me now but it still made a dent in my psyche. I am also naturally rebellious and openly question authority despite being shy- and a lot of people do not like that. I was hurt by others a lot but I don't see myself as an innocent victim because I hit them back 5 times harder. I'm also naturally provocative and do not like to be told what to do.
For me it seems to be really dependent on my environment, I went to this small town trucker bar a few weeks ago and I was getting dirty looks from ppl. And I was not throwing my homosexuality in their face I swear! But idk, maybe I just did it subconsciously and they picked up on it and it made them glare. However I seem to be more well liked in liberal cities and everybody tends to butter me up more and bring out my better sides there. It is a pity the liberal party in America is so weak and ineffectual but I think obviously there is no middle ground in the Game of Life and so of course I get along with uppity liberals from Maine waaaaay better than redneck truck driving assholes and conservative LSE str8 males who play golf using the heads of shrunken gay men.
I'm gonna go with female ESE and female IEE having it easiest.
I don't think I'm going to pick any type that has it the hardest. You'd think maybe certain Se types, but they also might masochistically get meaning and pleasure in life from difficulty in a way too. I know I do, so...
Not Ip types that's for sure.
whoever thinks IEE has it easiest in life, that is a joke.
Reminds me of one incident with IEE.
IEE: math seems to be religious subject to you?
Me: ???? eh?
IEE: !!???
Me: Well, if we really go deep into it there is absolutely nothing religious about it. It is just about following certain axioms. No exceptions allowed. It is the most non religious thing there is.
IEE: but you seem to be so passionate about it.
Me: #1. I'm not a mathematician and actual sciences might include much more faith in which I have degree in and I like to just play around. #2. you can shape your own worldview by using concepts used in mathematics but that is no longer mathematics.
IEE: **shakes his head**
Personal motives = logic. That is where IEE's excel in.
Anyway makes me thing what I do.... It is like I try to catch peoples' logic. Which makes me... complete weirdo?
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=IEE_domain
In a way it seems to give a ticket to freedom or to complete chaos.Quote:
The IEE and logic
'Evil' logic
Sometimes you come across statements that are just... so wrong. They enrage you with their cleverly disquised false logic. What do you do? Clench your teeth and squeeze out a lengthy analysis of why it is so wrong... Then you look at what you've written or explained and see that you haven't quite done justice to the heinous wrongfulness of the statement. The pain doesn't go away... The offender must be publicly destroyed or humiliated and all must be made to see his erroneous ways... But somehow he always seems to slip out of your grasp and continue to lead others into error untouched...
Can an IEE be purely logical?
Anecdote: when asked to speak from a http://www.wikisocion.net/en/images/0/01/Symbol_l.gif point of view at a socionics seminar, one IEE thought for a moment and began: "One of the theories that I feel very strongly about is..." — at which point everyone burst out laughing. If you "feel strongly," then it's not pure logic.
Nooo my sister has bipolar tendencies. She is emotional and friendly withdrawn and self destructive and depressed no for ESE and so many ESE friends suffer at not finding happiness in marriageQuote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
My friend just referred to me as logical yesterday lol. Just throwing that out there. I was giving her advice. I have yet to determine her type. :shrug:
Quiet you! @Heretic 007 *shakes fist*
The calmness from the emotions pouring inside of you will make an Fi type seem more logical or rather rationalQuote:
Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds
Yes, that sounds accurate! That's how she views me also, as more calm and rational than herself (I think she's something more Fe valuing, potentially beta)
Sol's got it made in the shade
Probably the EXXJ types. They tend to be less neurotic and volatile, most idealised in relationships and with higher reported average relationship quality, and tend to have higher average salaries. Essentially, compared to other types, the stress they encounter e.g. from being in high pressure careers is something they have more control of due to their natural temperament.
Cannot agree on ExxJ based on what I've seen
In current society it would probably best to be an LIE
Yeah certain ExxJ types may have it easiest, I don't think EIE does from what I've seen
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds
That’s true. I know a lot of ESEs that basically are mental and have failed marriages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
My comment was based off only a few distant female ESEs and IEEs I know who fit the feminine social stereotypes and who seem to be successful, and look and act like they’re from decently well-off families in the first place. I know a couple fem ESEs who managed to mess it up in spite of that though, but due to their background, it’s basically their own responsibility. I know some who seem just fine though. I don’t know any cute female IEEs who’ve managed to mess it up yet.
I think that might be true, especially if you’re a guy. But the problem is normal ESIs are super hard to find and to dualize with... especially normal male ESIs, IME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 9 large
EJs, LSE if have to choose one. Least would be IPs, male IEIs if had to choose one.
I think you hit the nail on the head with upbringing and societal factors being a part of this. I couldn't remember who made the comments about IEE, I just knew a couple people had and it had me scratching my head, even before I settled on this typing for myself. I was writing down some thoughts, but I don't really want to go into it or be self-revealing. Maybe enneagram does play a factor in this... and I'm not sure why women would have it so different from men in this typing. I just think it's a joke from my perspective, but any type is prone to having issues that could make it not so easy for them.
You realize this reads as “I don’t have a reason”, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds
"but I don't really want to go into it or be self-revealing"Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
I'm sorry I brought up thinking it was a joke, but I'm not lying when I say I don't really want to go into it right now or be self-revealing, you can read into that however you want
Well, it would be interesting to know rather than leaving it a mystery eventually. I know some other IEEs who seem to have tumultuous lives if they don’t fall into the stereotypical fem category. FWIW I don’t think you fall that far into this category (like with me thinking you could be a dual). I think you’re a rare exception though.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds
There’s one IEE guy I know who asked me to borrow cash even though he has two daughters, an older gf, and his dad is a doctor. It’s like... it’s hard to make your own life as hard as he’s made his lol, but it’s got to largely be his own fault. I’ve worked with him before too, so I know how much of an idiot he can be. He sounds a bit extreme but other IEEs I’ve known have had similar backgrounds and thinking styles. So that’s where my experience with them comes from.
Yeah I understand, and I know it was a shit answer that I wasn't sure if I should really post, but I thought it would be better than nothing. I'm just, in a bad spot at the current moment... but saying that feels like a cop-out
*edit* removed what else was here because that was also a lame response that didn't fit your story either. When I'm feeling more brave and lucid I'll try to add more explaining why I don't think IEE necessarily have it the easiest. I shouldn't say half of what I say honestly and I shouldn’t have made a comment if I didn’t want to explain some of the reasons for why I feel this way.
Probably those people who do not think about things with too much contradictory complexity in mind (which is my whole effin existence) because that leads to unsolvable mind states regarding everything.
no type has it easy especially not any type alone; society types are supposed to be a group
SEIs
they can just be good at smth and be like "yay i can make money doing leisurely stuff I'd do on my own anyways!"
ofc they could also be a "Karen" and do pretty much nothing and still enjoy it?
Literally every SEI I've ever known was broke AF. Making money and SEI should never be in the same sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chryssie
I have seen SEI's who can make money without printing it. The downside is that they also spend it whereas I tend to accumulate it for nothing because spending is just boring and doing investments is even more boring and not caring of using gift cards etc.
The types are far from equal from the point of survival in society.
If you can make it through school with good grades without much effort, have interesting hobbies, have a good job and make money, social status and all this fairly naturally, then that's the type you "want" to be. Good types to be are LIE, LII, maybe ILE.
You want to be a type that has it easy in society and also has good possibilities of putting their strong functions to use and develop themselves.
SEI is probably the type that has the most problems.
Oof... society values stability and so does individuals. The day when I discovered that using native resolution in computer displays is close to blasphemy to coworkers... Having managerial tendencies is the best bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallmo
Life is hard, but I refuse to be a victimQuote:
Originally Posted by LemurianLo
Lol, I've welcomed what you'd call opportunities for learning and growth in theory, but I haven't actively hunted, and when I've been presented with them I haven't exactly embraced them.
ESIs have it easiest because we marry CEOs and sit on thrones of self-righteousnessness. You're jealous.
@squark you are not the kind of LSI I'm thinking about but many in that type thrives in a world via script. It makes sense if you want to have good untainted separate life outside of work for example (and then there are the ones that want to have something bigger in concrete world but even that daily routine follows a script). Good managers. Their weakness is usually in area of new things as things change and destroys good efficient routine and I'm not saying that they do not like to learn but too much blur can make them bit stressed out.
harmonising types also lack the energy to deal with real life. I think that many homeless people and people with disabilities are harmonising subtypes. there's a reason why this subtype prefers to use its vulnerable function.Quote:
Originally Posted by toska
overall I think it's a very complex question to answer. I think that you will have an easier life when your type aligns with the quadra values of your enviroment. right now the function Te is very valued in our western society, which means that SEI and IEI probably have a harder life than LIE or LSE for example, but that's of course a very simplified point of view. it also depends on the types of your family, if your own perspective is meaningful to the people around you. I think there are many factors that are unrelated to your type that determine whether you will have an "easy" life or not.
I don't have it too hard in life. I might overreact about some stuff, but no. Compared to other life stories, I think I had it pretty well (besides emotionally-unavailable parents but everyone has that issue nowadays).
My biggest problem is the fact that no one takes me seriously. And I do this to myself, in a way. It takes one depressing heartfelt rant or emotional breakdown for people to see that I'm not just the archetypal jester.
And sometimes it's uncomfortable. Not annoying, just uncomfortable.
It's obvious that there are lots of factors other than type that determine how easy or hard life will be. But type is still a major factor, and I assume that in this thread we do the basic abstraction of disregarding other factors and talk about types on average.
I thought LSEs. At least they seem to be the best at handling day to day life and don't get set back by Fi PoLR.
I can see how they often seem to have problems with big picture stuff, discovering their deeper fulfillment, or wanting to have certain types of relationships but not knowing how to form them.
I agree and I share your point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by soundofconfusion
Environmental factors are more important than socionics type in that matter. You have to find the environment that fits you.
...or the Ej-type version: Reshape the environment in the fashion that it fits to you.
TBH it’s fucking exhausting being me LOL, but it can also be very rewarding sometimes. Definitely worth it but not for the faint-of-heart.
Hardest: EIE Jesus
Easiest: SLI couch potato
I think this question only makes sense in terms of which type exerts the most going on down to which type lives in ignorant bliss. I don't think wussy types have it harder since they have strong duals, same with strong types like LIE having to deal with obstinate duals like ESI like @sbbds said. So EIE seems the most exert-y and SLI is the least.
Except @wasp calls SLI "the master" so maybe they're actually the most exert-y and EIEs are faker liar actors who aren't exert-y at all. Socionists need to make up their minds.
That applies to quadra openers, not "Ejs." (For reference: ILE, EIE, SEE, and LSE begin their quadras in the clock of the socion. Two of those are rational and two are irrational.) I would also hope everyone can reshape the environment to some extent even if they don't create one whole cloth.Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnieW
EJs
IFs
Whichever was born rich in a developed country
Dem SEIs gonna conquer the new worldQuote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Quote:
Originally Posted by coeruleum
The original question itself is worded in general terms.
I'm not familiar with the term "quadra opener", is this Socionics nomenclature?
So what to expect as answer? 42 … Maybe? :shifty:
Type is only one factor in this equation.
It all depends on the values of a person and the values of the society you are living in. When your own values and abilities matches the expectations of the people you are dealing with then you have it easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Money is also of value, but a value can be social status, e.g. being a member of a respected group.
The process extravert in a quadra is the first type in a quadra.Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnieW
I understand, but what the reason behind that?Quote:
Originally Posted by coeruleum
Having it easy in life has more to do if you're willing to conform established rules and values of the society you are living in,
going (activly) against these rules make your life much more difficult.
So a lot of people have to decide what's more important in their life: Comfort or personal values
Or try to balance between of them.
Well, if I remember correctly you're german, right. In Germany yeah, it's extremely important - I'm Italian and always found it quite shocking during my 8 adult years living there. In some other places, you just go to work and then you can find your niche and nobody will care if you conform to estabilished rules (also, what rules exactly?) and actually having enough money for you and your family is the more difficult part.Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnieW
Yeah, you're right. I guess I mentioned that in a few posts in this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
The rules itself are less important, but for most jobs you need proper education and a apprenticeship certification exam (<- I had to Google for that term.). Otherwise you're rated as unskilled worker, with low chances to get a proper job at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
And when think about founding your own company, for some jobs... yeah, there is an catalogue of jobs... you need to graduate at a master school and obtain a master craftsmanship certificate first, to do this. (<- Had to Google that term, too.)
Mostly to ensure high quality and safety standards at work.
But yeah, there are lots of regulations and laws in Germany. But some rules are pretty basic, such as the rules of economics – supply and demand.
Career-wise/Academically: LIE, Alpha NT
Socially: SEI, Fe-IEI
Romantically: SLE men and xEI women
Mentally: SEI
barack obama is male IEI thoQuote:
Originally Posted by LemurianLo