This is not a fall from virtue but rather a response to a higher purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
"Who laid the measure of the prey?"
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This is not a fall from virtue but rather a response to a higher purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
"Who laid the measure of the prey?"
Yep, this ESI guy will certainly remember this conversation later in his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightHawk
"My identical... Those women he showed me on his phone... Damn, I should have asked a few questions".
I like you old man. Just so you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Adam I keep meeting women that are.. how should I put this?.. nuts, yeah, nuts. How do I meet sane women? :/ kinda fucked up a serious long term relationship recently with an IEI (wasn't gonna work.. she was nuts as well).
Time is running out I'm in my early 30s .. tho I look like I'd be in my early 20s.
prolly because Ni types want someone to be 'in' or to be openly uncertain and not to be playing house and Adam felt protective of the ESI woman XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Kalinoche the Child
I think it's so cute that Te types do this...we're like babies when it comes to sharing our precious 'useful information', even with strangers, even about things that would horrify some other people like 'oh, stranger, you may not actually be with your ideal mate, but it's a pleasant match you're in...so I'd like a camera phone that" Tis as tho we are compelledQuote:
Originally Posted by BaruchJorgell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Dude. It takes seconds to explain to her what you so easily explained to us...that your previous partner enjoyed when you smacked their bum, you were sort of trained to do it, and you enjoyed being with her and were in that mode, and you didn't think, and (if you genuinely see it's a messed up thing to touch someone when they don't want to be touched and that you shoulda asked 1st,) say that. Seconds, dude. Just be real about it.
you can't be crossing someone's lines and not apologizing and then being surprised they didn't read your mind that you get it and will stop the shit
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
Thanks, @nanashi. I did all that immediately. It made no difference.
Did I mention that she’s 44 and never been married? How do you spell “Avoidant”?
My ex-wife was 37 (seven years older than me) when I married her and she had a hard time maintaining BF’s. And our marriage. You can find a person to be really appealing in every sense, but if they always turn away, or say to you “You just stay over on that side of the room, buddy. You are smothering me”, then nothing you can do is ever going to change that.
Attachment modes are programmed into babies at very early ages, and when programming is done on that basic a level, with everything else being built on top of it, it is very hard to change.
This particular ESI is smart, sexy, and fun to be around, and I’ve given up on her.
Next.
I've often wondered if this is is indicative of N-types in general. When I see relationships have failed once, I have never given them second chances even when opportunities have presented themselves. I know many N-types who would re-examine such failures over and over in their minds but would never actually go back for a second attempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
a.k.a. I/O
Seems more like Rational vs. Irrational to me. I have given relationships second chances several times, those have been with other irrationals (both N and S). Rationals seem more likely to close chapters permanently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
I start out every relationship without prejudices and with a very blank slate. Then, every interaction adds a building block and opens or closes a possible "door". I keep a very open mind while all this is happening, until eventually, I see where this is all going and what it is capable of supporting. Sometimes, the branches that I want to access in the tree of future possibilities are seen to be inaccessible. I don't assume that I've been given false information to arrive at this point, or that I've taken a wrong road and I can jump sideways to a new reality. Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
This is why my marriage, once I decided to end it, is done. It took a long time for me to realize that I was in the wrong reality, because I had stopped gathering new information once I had decided to get married, but once I started looking at my situation, I was out of there.
I really don't understand people who go back to their ex's. What are they using to make decisions?
It is true that I broke up with my last GF four times and took up with her again, three times. But that was never permanent in my mind. Probably, if she called me when I was horny and single, I'd start again. The sex was the best. But the rest was a brick wall. But then again, I might not. She kind of softened my life to the point where I wasn't going out and looking for an ESI so much, and that is bad.
Re the marriage and age thing, I've mentally written the "excuse" for why I'm 36 and never been married (because of the idea that I need an excuse) but it just comes down to 2 roughly ten-year relationships with men who view marriage as an unnecessary trivial formality and my acceptance of that. The only reason I've felt any strong need to get married is because of outside perceptions that I "should" be, and not for any like, actual reason. A cultural thing, I guess. People from a different culture will deem me unworthy, lol.
I've known several IEIs and IEEs who've written people off quite easily but not their S-counterparts. However, my sample size is quite limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
a.k.a. I/O
I have gotten back together with both IEE and IEI personally, but my sample size is not greater than that. Otherwise I would agree that IEE can easily leave someone romantically behind for good, but they tend to keep a certain connection alive with everyone only strictly on terms deemed appropriate by the IEE themselves. IEI don’t seem to do that kind of keeping people around ”just in case”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
@Northstar, the problem I have with IEI's is that I find it impossible to feel that they and I are joined at the hip. They have 4D Fi, but they don't value it, so there is always a barrier between us. We can be friends for life, but there is always that barrier. Plus, I feel like they could leave at any time without a regret in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
IEI and I used to break up every other week, lol. Part of the courting process or something. The dynamic involved his IEI relational ambiguity skills combined with my Ne polr "if this isn't settled, I'll settle it, bye" attitude. Fun combo. :hyper:
Yeah, I don't need to be joined at the hip. It would be suffocating. I want plenty of physical closeness and warm behavior but I'm perfectly fine with having your own space and keeping your thoughts private. Maybe what you mean with the "barrier". Also, it's fine by me that the relationship ends without a regret if it's no longer serving its purpose. A bit of danger and excitement keeps things interesting. I don't want things to become mundane, that is my nightmare. That's why the relationship with SEI ended, I got bored. She told me that I couldn't handle the mundane and always expected something thrilling to happen in life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Quote:
@
Quote:
Northstar, the problem I have with IEI's is that I find it impossible to feel that they and I are joined at the hip.
Why would you want to be joined at the hip with anybody? I genuinely don't get that.
But thank you for describing something you don't like about IEIs in a more constructive way honestly. Some of the hatred dished out against IEIs on here have just been kind of ... too venomous? Yes I was being 'oversensitive' and yes it did hurt my feelings a bit but then again, it did feel pretty overly harsh and cruel instead of just logical.
I hate to be thought of as a 'user' for one even though I think it can look like that way to outsiders because of some of my weaker functions. My ESE mom and ILE male best friend kind of know how to give me my space when I want it and I apperciate that.
With my duals it's a bit different I think, more awkward and there is this push-pull energy. They want to fuck me and move in with me and be a couple but it's also so awkward like 'how the fuck is this supposed to work' and so we don't stay joined. I probably need something really dramatic and Hollywood-ish to happen to stay joined for a few hours and then still its like 'okay bye' but they are probably okay with that cuz of Fi polr idk. lol
Sorry for the vent, you can go back to the gamma orgy.
IEIs don't like feeling smothered by others although they will often do it to themselves. Ip-types tend to operate behind walls of preconceptions and assumptions. Output (j) oriented types also tend to offer them too many opinions about their walls (which often creates their tunnel vision), and Ejs would likely place too many expectations on them for their liking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
a.k.a. I/O
That's been my experience more, too. But...I AM willing to go back when there has been significant growth or change in our circumstances, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
I think some SLE like this in a way...The ...how do I say this without sounding creepy...the having to slow down and read you and your needs. It's an exciting opportunity/project/puzzle....Quote:
Originally Posted by BandD
This is a further derail of the thread, but would you mind elaborating on what you mean by the bolded? Isn't this just a human thing? The rest I understand (and agree with).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Ip-types and to a lesser extent Ejs seem to have belief or faith that certain information that they possess is sacrosanct; this drives their behaviour and obsessions. Ijs and Eps don't seem to hold onto information so dearly so, down deep, they're not as convinced that they're right although many will put on a good show. Ips seem to compare everything to their base, which is fine so long as the information is correct and doesn't have bias but what is the chance of no bias whatsoever. However, this form of closed-loop processing permits them to function better than others in some very chaotic situations. There's a side effect to this stable core in that it seems to spawn the best critics - and more than a few bigots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
a.k.a. I/O
Interesting, thanks for clarifying. Is this coming from personal observation, something commonly noted among Ip types, or a mixture of both? I would have thought it would be slightly the opposite with introverted irrationals vs rationals. I know an EII who was pretty "bigoted" I guess you could say and even championed a few causes in college that she's embarrassed by now, while I've always felt a lot less certain than her. I attributed that to being intuitive base, while her dominant Fi tends to come off as extremely sure/critical in her viewpoints. Comparing everything to one's base seems like a good description of how she runs everything through Fi--don't we all do this with our dominant function?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
@Emily I didn't suggest that Ips were the only bigots or critics. Their processing structure is just well suited for comparative analysis so they tend to make the most effective critics - and bigots. All the Ips that I've met were critical at their cores. EXIs are typically very sure of their rationale but not their information; they tend to doubt information in general but because they're output oriented, they often have to say "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" - while XEIs will often say "whoops torpedoes" while they're already going full speed ahead on assumptions.
a.k.a. I/O
No worries, I didn't think you were suggesting they were the only bigots/critics, but saying they seemed wired to be the best ones caught my eye since I've known EII/LII to be pretty strong critics (IEI and ILI too, though). I need to ponder what you wrote a bit more, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
@Emily EXIs tend to preach while LXIs tend to lecture; they aren't usually critical in a dynamic sense; and most of them will have to think about things a lot before they offer a criticism but once they've done that, some can argue quite convincingly. Ips (and Ejs less so) seem to be able to do it on the fly because they carry their info base (the ammo) with them while Ijs (and Eps to a lesser extent) often have to create a new reference from scratch because they tend to discard information once it's served its purpose.
a.k.a. I/O
How are IEIs critics? �� The only critical IEI I have seen was Justin Taylor in the Queer as Folk series who was gay and was fighting for his preference. But that is an American and exaggerated showQuote:
Originally Posted by Emily
Hmm. What does "they aren't critical in a dynamic sense" mean? My EII friend doesn't seem to have to think too hard before she utters a pronouncement, haha. I bite my tongue a lot more and wouldn't say I'm able to offer criticism on the fly. ILI often can, yes, if they actually have the desire to engage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Ijs don't think well on their feet. They may appear so if they've researched and are fully up to speed on a subject but throwing in something from left field will often cause them to say something that amounts to "I'll get back to you" or "la, la, la, I can't hear you"; some will try to fake it but they don't do well at that either. However, EIIs in their wheelhouse with prepared sermons can be really preachy and formidable. Ips operate the best on their feet, faking it and rolling with the punches but they can have tunnel vision with very narrow interests and perspectives. IEIs tend to not offer opinions but they certainly have them in spades and will voice them in endless chatter when in safe environments; EIIs tend to have much broader perspectives and are usually not as sensitive to their immediate environments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
a.k.a. I/O
A strange thing happened with my ESI neighbor and I can’t quite figure it out.
He and I have been neighbors for about five years. We don’t talk much, but he’s an OK guy. When he first bought the place, it was just him and his (ESI, I think) daughter. Last year he was going to get married and sell the place and move in with his new wife, but she called it off. He has seemed kind of depressed since then but hasn’t really said anything about it. I have been sympathetic but not to the point of telling him he needs to find a female LIE. I mean, why tell him that his ideal match is almost nonexistent?
Anyway, I had some work done on my property today and one of the machines had to drive onto his property. I talked to him first about this and he seemed wary but willing to let them do that. So they did. I was there while the work was being done and the workers were really careful but I couldn’t watch everything all the time.
This evening he sent me a picture of his boat. The hitch had been bumped and knocked off of its supporting block. He texted “Your guys hit my boat. I’ll check for damage in the morning.”
I immediately wrote back and apologized and said I’d pay for any damages.
But looking at the picture, it looks like nothing. I mean, the workers got a lot accomplished but also managed to break an electrical junction box on my property and although that set me back I didn’t whine about it. Ninety-nine percent of what they did was great.
So I don’t mind paying for any damages to his boat. I should, if there are any. But his reaction surprised me. Today set me back about $3k and it was nothing. His boat gets bumped and he’s complaining. To me, this seems petty and an overreaction, but maybe I’m wrong. Now I’m trying to understand this.
He and I are Duals, I’m pretty sure. We get along better than most people. Is he feeling neglected in his life? Does he need attention from someone who is basically on his side? Does the bumping of his boat represent some kind of transgression onto his domain? Do Aggressor ESI’s hate it when someone steps on their toes? What is the essence of what is going on here?
@Adam Strange ESIs don't usually like their space encroached upon or violated in any way. They may allow it but not really like it and normally they'll respect the space of others in the same way that they want their space to be treated. Ijs, in general, tend to be like this - islands unto themselves. They seem to desire complete autonomy in their space and will allow you yours so long as you don't cross the boundary. The behaviour seems to be linked more to self determination than possessiveness although sometimes they make it hard to distinguish. Ejs tend to be mentally intrusive so can be good stimulation for Ijs; however, even duals shouldn't step on Ij blue suede shoes.
a.k.a. I/O
^ this is the truth.
Timber, you and my neighbor are a lot alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by timber
You know, this makes closing the distance with my Duals very challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
I actually think my ESI neighbor is an e6, not counterphobic. A guy driven by fears and doubts. He watched me interacting with a bunch of workmen and I told him that one of the guys in particular was a great worker, and now he's saying "Your guys bumped my boat and what are you going to do about it?", which really means "Am I still important to you? What are you going to do about this?"
ESI's come in three flavors; e4, e6, and e9. I'm most attracted to the e6's, but man, they can be pains sometimes with their constant running away and constant doubts.
I just bought another artwork from an e6w7 counter-phobic ESI-Se Artist whose work I like a lot, and she was talking about a previous work that she'd done, one of her best, and she told me that some offhand remark I'd made about colors indicated to her that I really didn't like the piece. Girl, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. WTF?
I find that my e8-ness can easily assuage her e6 fears, and no matter how panicky she is when we meet, she calms right down after talking with me. I've been hoping that she would calm down enough to stick around. I'm starting to think that this might never happen.
Honestly, sounds like a total pain in the ass. Why do you torture yourself with such people? e2 are great, but I'd take e4 or e9 over e6 any day. I think 1 and 6 would be least interesting for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I wouldn't attribute the themes in the first line above to ESIs more than some other types; there must be other factors. They don't usually look to others for validation like Ips and Ejs might do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
The themes in the second line can be very much ESI because they are sensitive to criticism (mostly for self-improvement) and are often hesitant to start something.
a.k.a. I/O
Good question, @Northstar. Aside from the fact that the e6 ESI Artist is physically beautiful, I was struck by how easily my e8-ness (stable, confident energy) stabilizes her e6-ness (fear and doubt). It's the same as where Duals help each other naturally just by being themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
I'm just having a problem with it as a steady diet.
This dissonance might just be the gears grinding in the early parts of a relationship. The LSI was also an e6, but less obviously fearful. She once asked me "Do you like me?". Lol, of all the questions she could have asked, that was about the easiest to answer.
I was married to an SLI e1. Never again. And the e4's that I've met have mostly been the IEI variety, and entirely dismissable. I think my long term male ESI friends have been e9's. But they can seem safe and boring.
IDK. I need more data.
I knew an engineer in Ford Advanced Vehicles who told me that Ford had done a decades long study to try to discover what made a car "fun to drive". Their conclusions were that the car had to feel somewhat unstable.
I think the same applies to GF's.
Now whether that is what you want for long term use or not, that is a question that only the driver can determine. All of my Mercedes have been as exciting to drive as sitting on my couch, and this is by design, because *German voice* "It is not efficient to arrive at your destination exhausted from too much excitement."
My ESI neighbor was making a racket mowing his lawn, so I walked over and apologized in person for the fact that my workmen had bumped his boat.
He said that he looked at it very carefully and there was no damage, and he appreciated the fact that I offered to pay for any damages (and when he said this, he was watching my face very intently to see if I was lying or if I really meant it - Lol) and I should forget it. He said “I’m past that now.”
I said, “No, you shouldn’t be “past it”. You should be happy and satisfied about it.”
”Well, I am. There was no damage, so forget about it. I have.”
I then asked him about his plans for the future. I had heard he was going to get married but then that changed.
”I’m not going to move any time soon.”, he said, misinterpreting my question. “And I called it off with that girl. There was something just not right about the whole relationship. She could be very critical at times, and I just didn’t want to live with that.”
”You know, I’ve said before that you and I are Duals.”
”Yeah, you mentioned something about that.” He looked embarrassed, as if he found himself talking to someone he liked who had just revealed that he was crazy.
”Well, males of my type are fairly rare. But females of my type are almost nonexistent. Maybe one percent of the population. One of the good things about us as Duals is that we kind of live in a “no criticism” zone. But to find one, you have to know what you’re looking for. Here. Let me show you pictures of a couple of females who are your Duals. I’ve got them on my phone, if you’ve got a minute.”
”I’ve got about one minute, then I have to get back to cutting this lawn...”
”Here’s one”, I said, showing him a picture of a dark haired beauty whom I met at a science fair. She was smiling with her logic showing in the first picture, and then was looking slightly impatient in the second picture.
”See how logical she looks? And she’s not that friendly. Your Duals are not that friendly, compared to most women.”
I then showed him a picture of another female LIE, a woman I’ve known for eight years. “See? She looks like a business hard-ass in the first picture but at least she’s looking neutral and all business. Here in the second picture she’s looking pissed off because she doesn’t like having her picture taken, not even by me.”
My ESI neighbor said, “Those women look almost exactly alike.”
”Exactly!”, I said. “You can identify them visually if you know what you are looking for. That’s why I showed you these pictures.”
”Well, I have a new GF that lives fifteen miles from here and she’s pretty good. We’ll see how that goes.”
”Hopefully, it will be great.”
”OK, I’ve gotta finish the lawn.”
”Talk to you later. Good luck.”
”See you.”
He's probably thinking you're crazy or at least weird. Can't think of a more closed-minded type than ESI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
No doubt. But I have a secret weapon in the relationship. I’m his Dual. He can’t help liking me. He doesn’t even know why he likes me. He just feels it. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northstar
All I have to do is be myself, show that I care about his feelings a bit (but only a bit. I’m not great at this, and if the theory holds, he expects exactly this retarded level of response) and we should be good.
One of the reasons he gave for breaking it off with his previous GF was she started lying to him. Personally, I find it impossible to lie. Except by omission. I can mislead by omission. Weirdly enough, my LSI ex-GF also thought that lying was a deal breaker. She was Mirage, which is half-Dual and half Extinguishment. Evidently the ‘no lying’ thing is 3D Se and 2D Ni. :)
I met his daughter when I dropped off a check for him for the electric bill (it’s a long story). I told him I think that she and he have the same personality types.
He said, “Maybe.”
I said, “Yeah, you can see it in her face. She has this kind of soft look. Not logical. Not that she doesn’t think. She thinks all the time. But what she’s thinking about...” I pointed accusingly at his house and squinted, to imitate her look “....is, “Is this guy doing the right thing?””.
He burst out laughing and nodded.
One other thing about my ESI neighbor. I was telling him a story about the female ESI I dated. The one who, twenty minutes after meeting her, told me “We should go out sometime for a burger and a beer, but no sex.”
Which absolutely floored me. I mean, who says that? It was so weird that I ran it past an ESI buddy I‘ve known for thirty years. He said, “Yeah. The sex is the next day.”
I thought, That’s interesting. That’s actually astounding. I would never have thought that.
So I told the same story to my ESI neighbor. He laughed and said “Yeah, the sex is the next day.”
What do you know? There are only sixteen people.
*EDIT*
Regarding that ESI who went out with me once and refuses to go out again, I know she likes me. She was flirting with me in phone texts. But she refuses to go out. Maybe she thinks the second date has required sex? And she doesn’t want to get involved with me?
IDK. It’s a puzzle.
In my experience it's just that relationships and boundaries and honor mean a lot to them, and saying something like, "I am so happy you told me about this because it matters to me that your boat was bumped." is a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
It's more just like making you aware of a contact that may have done something.. He opened up his property to your contractors. It's a vulnerability, etc. He may just be checking in, etc. Doesn't mean anything is wrong.
I wonder whether it just seems so....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
I've been reading about that in ENTJ and Enneagram 7 articles...and then recognizing it in my desires about a partner. I grew up with an enneagram 4 and have several enneagram 4s and 6s in my life....and a few sevens. I think I get bored without some intense stuff going on. I kinda like being needed (not like by a drug addict, but like someone who's kinda sensitive and confides in me). I love that feeling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Maybe tell the isfj you're overworking and need to relax and have more in your life than work. Make it about your trying to not be a workaholic. Then just act like a stumped Type A toddler (which, let's be honest, is what we entjs are in human relationships :) ), and kinda stare off in a planning but stuck Ni way, and.... they organize your social outing. Works for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I don't know what you're implying - because my comments were predicated by the word "seem(s)"? Little in Socionics is really what it seems.:content:Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
a.k.a. I/O
Female ESI-Se to male LIE-Te: "You should study buddhism."
Male LIE-Te to Female ESI-Se: "Why? My ex took me to a Buddhist temple and we spent weeks learning to meditate. I was bored out of my mind. We were sitting for hours on pillows in the dark, surrounded by candles, and I almost went nuts. There were a million productive things I could have been doing but wasn't. I don't have an internal dialogue. There's no me inside me. It's all just what you see. Except when the little plant I was growing got murdered by those fucking rodents. That was bad. I'm gonna kill those bastards. But aside from that, there's nothing. So why should I try to meditate? I don't get it."
Female ESI-Se to male LIE-Te: "It would make you sympathetic to other people's feelings and less of an asshole."
Great. Just great.
@Adam Strange next time you see her just tell her you are special. no context needed. it works.
"I'm special"? This really works? Seems incomprehensible, but OK, I'll take your word for it. I'll try it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalinoche the Child
I have almost zero expectations of anything "working" with this woman. She's about 44, never been married, her Imago is guys like her SLI father (who are always a day late, a mile away, & passive aggressive) and she says she has narcissistic injury and she's happy being by herself. She's known me for about four years and is not interested. The odds of her having any BF, much less me, are about the same as that egg that fell off the table jumping back up and reassembling. However, I'll tell her that I'm special next time I talk to her.
Thanks for the advice. I'm always ready to try new things.
i changed my mind. don't tell her you are special.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
:bashhead: OK, I won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalinoche the Child
In truth, I'm not that special, anyway, and I think it's best to stick with the truth. The only thing I have going is that I'm LIE and she's ESI, and everything else is a train wreck.
I'll tell you what my problem is. I missed the boat a long time ago. And now that I've figured out my destination, the docks are empty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCT7aUts26A
@Adam Strange, some thoughts on the supposed lack of internal dialogue: Do you have second-order thoughts/underlying beliefs when you talk to her? E.g. ''if I say this bit and this bit, she will get it''. IMO this is internal dialogue.
“placeholder until I can get back to this.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalinoche the Child
Dude, I highly doubt that.there are so many optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Well, she totally sounds sympathetic to other people's feelings...Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I was texting with this female ESI on a dating site to find out more about her. She went through a bitter divorce and was devastated when her husband, who married her right after she got her nursing degree, told her that he had never liked her and was leaving her for a younger woman. Harsh.
In an attempt to get her to see her situation from a larger perspective and to get her to let go of her feeling of being the victim of an exploiter (thanks, Strat!), I asked her what she missed most about her ex.
I know what a 22 yo would say, but this woman is a bit older.
She said, “He mowed the lawn.” Lol.
I told her I couldn't help her with that. Mowing lawns is a waste of my time, and I try to hire that out.
but that's more about what was nice in their dynamic, not what she thinks is ideal necessarilyQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Yeah, if the guy never really liked her and just exploited her, then I seriously doubt that they were having an ideal relationship dynamic. Some people take a wrong turn from childhood misdirection, get lost in dark lands, and never realize it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
After I started talking to her, she changed her self-summary on the dating site from something like "Want to go on a road trip" to
Never apologize for being yourself.
There's something amazing about people who are freely themselves.
Looking for communication, sharing values, trust and honesty, humor, friendship and emotional intelligence.
Lol. Duality. Accept no substitutes.
Now if only she didn't live two and a half hours away.
i date across the ocean or across the hallway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
2.5 hours is not a big constraint. you can handle it
A few years ago, I met an ESI-Se who was working on the lawn of the house across the street. She owns a lawn care company and was directing her employees in the proper use of chain saws. I went over to talk to her, and after ten or twenty minutes of me being me, she said that we should "go out for a burger and a beer but no sex" some time. I was floored at her directness, and agreed.
I got her number and called her repeatedly and she finally agreed to go out. We had a great time and talked for eight hours without getting tired of each other, and then she refused to go out with me again.
I've repeatedly asked her out, and she has repeatedly refused. Which sucks, because I like her. She's very similar to the ESI-Se that my ILI-Te buddy married.
I recently got DarkAngelFireWolf69's book about DCNH and read the descriptions of the ESI DCNH types. I'd call this woman a D type, given the fact that she owns her company. I'd also give the ESI wife of my ILI buddy a D designation, because she runs a part of the library system in their town.
DarkAngelFireWolf69 said that the ESI D type rules the household and is a good provider for the family. This implies that the husband is not such a great provider, and I know a number of LIE's who don't actually make much money. I then recalled that, near the end of my date with the ESI-Se, when she and I had been talking in my house for hours, the subject of our respective levels of wealth came up (obliquely, very obliquely), and I frankly admitted that I had three houses to her one.
That was strike one. She probably feels that she needs to control the home and the marriage, and she fears that she might not be able to do that with me.
Then, I kept calling her for another date. This was strike two.
She always refused. I've read conflicting things about ESI's. Some writers say that they are Aggressors and will ask a guy out and they hate it when a guy chases them. Others say that ESI's will never make the first move. The truth of the matter is that it probably depends on subtypes, or possibly DCNH, and I suspect that the ESI-Se or D-type is going to be the one who chases.
To verify this, I called my ILI-Te buddy and asked him if he had asked his ESI-Se D-type wife out first, or if she was the one who suggested everything. He told me that she did the asking. He went on to say that he really hadn't had much experience with women prior to her (think, 40 year-old virgin), so he wasn't exactly aggressive.
Lol. To say the least. Nor is he earning very much money. He gets a lot of money from his wealthy father, so her library income probably dominates the home finances. She probably picked up on that in an instant.
When the ESI-Se and I were out on a date, she and I were talking about our ideas of a perfect mate. She showed me a picture of a (married) friend of hers. The guy was a dweebish ILI.
In any case, it is clear to me that she wants to do the asking and her partner needs to be the passive one. Well, I'm not like that. So that is definitely strike two.
Then, more recently, after I had resignedly placed her in the friend zone and was moving on to dating other women but was still thinking about her, she texted me out of the blue and started flirting. So I asked her out for a date again and again she refused. She said she only wants a business relationship with me.
I'll chalk this up to her not seeing me as the guy she wants to get closer to, but not wishing to lose a potential business resource, either.
Strike three. Game over.
Three houses would be good if you ever wanted some space. Please tell me though they aren't all in the same city. I feel like if you have multiple homes they should be in different regions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
They are not all in the same city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramas
One is in the city of Ann Arbor, one is in the country about 20 miles north of town, in the woods near a lake where I can only see one neighbor from the land, and the third one is in Ohio.
Maybe it sounds like a big deal, but it's not. If you live long enough, you collect things. Some things you wish you hadn't collected.
Houses are a huge drain on resources. Hotels are better for a change of view.
I feel motivated to tell you about this piece of very valuable relationship advice, even though I won't be efficient at explaining it, but its basically a simple solution. I feel moved to try my best to explain it to you here, because I keep thinking it will be quite valuable to add to your bag of tricks.. LOL, I mean, your methods of securing your Dual spouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
This relationship advice came from a mega-bestseller among Christian books, called Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson. So many copies were sold and there have been many re-printings that there is a ton out there and you can buy a used on Amazon starting at 40 cents. Any edition will do. I just gave away 2/3rds of my precious books that I love, survivors of many previous cullings. One of them was this book, and it was hard to part with as I have lent it to many. In fact it was the 3rd copy I'd owned since many people forget to return books, but I wanted to keep owning a copy of it since it had helped many.
The goal of James Dobson (founder of "Focus on the family" Institute) in this book was to save marriages, particularly to help the spouse whose spouse was straying from the marriage, often for an affair, or from boredom or disinterest. The book tells the method for winning them back.
When I Google "straying spouse" I see all kinds of advice which is exactly what Dobson describes and relegates to his "NEVER Do This" category, which includes everything you are tempted to do: Beg, plead, reason, have a sit-down talk, ingratiate yourself, cry pitifully, promise to be better, etc., etc. Dobson has a simple but different solution that is easy and TRUE HELP for someone in this desperate situation.
I know you are not desperate, Adam, but this advice is great for ESI's like above*, who are inexplicitly backing away, to bring them back, if possible. And you must ensure also you do not do any of the normal responses that will certainly drive them further away..
There are basic principles and Dobson tells them, but they center on this theme: Never act desperate to keep them, instead, calmly accept their decision to leave, saying something like, "I am sorry you want to leave. I love you and care for you deeply and would like you to stay, but I respect your decision to go away. I will miss you but I want you to be happy and I want to give you the space to do this if that is what yo want." (I don't have the book here to check, but that is the gist of it). You show deep respect for their need for space [Also, he explains, respect yourself and make them respect you by never letting let them have that "exploration space" in your shared home. They need to leave for this].
Okay, here is the simple thing you do, the central theme, that is hard to explain without a picture. But this works for not just marriages but new or old relationships and friendships.
Dobson draws a simple childlike drawing int he text to go with his explanation.
Scenario ONE:
The picture is two hands, index fingers pointing up, about 6" apart from each other. The picture represents the two spouses, the 6" away represents their normal space between them.
Spouse #1 gets bored/restless, discontent, so he/she increases the distance, moving in the opposite direction of their spouse, 3-6" away from them.
The further the distance created, the more panicked Spouse#2 gets, wanting to remedy this alarming situation, so she/he closes the distance, going after #1, trying to maintain that 6" space!
Spouse #1, the man (or woman) with a mission, still needing the extra space he feels he must have, keeps on moving!
Spouse #2 wit more determination than ever keeps moving after Spouse #1 to get back the 6" space, and this is going nowhere good. Spouse #2 can't win.
____________
Scenario TWO:
Begins in same way as above, with the two spouses 6" apart.
Spouse #1 wants space, or to explore another relationship, so begins moving left away from Spouse #2.
Spouse #2 does not chase him. He allows the space to increase. I think Spouse #2 may begin to wander further away himself.
Spouse number #1 looks back and says, "Hey, wait a minute, this increased space is uncomfortable!" or, "Hey, I am the one increasing space. Why is he/she increasing it?" He starts to close back in a bit and see what Spouse #2 is up to. Is she still there for him?
You see, the only way top get them back is to let them go, or even move further away.
___________
Dobson explains a lot of simple things related things on how to play this in the book. Rule Number One is never let them see the book! Hide it. Because if they read it and see what you are doing, it's game over, and they are free to wander away again, as there is no curiosity to bring them back. You keep up a "mystery", polite, and not overplaying it. You stay polite, not troubled, and definitely not "desperate," ever. Your regret at the relationship not working is very matter-of-fact, calm and accepting. So this book describes a very practical method. And it works! Try it once and you will find other uses for it. I have. My sis-in-law saved her marriage with it; she used that book, and attributes it to the saving of her marriage. Two kids and many years in a conflictor marriage! It's been challenge for both but both are glad to have stayed an intact family for their kids most especially.
So Adam, this seems like it might help you with the ESI above, or at least certainly with similar situations. Sorry I can't check for typos but I have spent way too long on this! More thoughts below on that ESI:
__________
*Also the ESI would have an exquisite personal feeling reaction to an 8 hour "date" with a dual who only just before had been a basically a stranger, like in the situation you describe here. I kind of understand her use of Fi , which may not be so different from mine, even though she is my Supervisee. She would want to take this wealth of feeling-reactions that came from this long day of extroverted interactions deep INSIDE herself, alone, away from prying eyes, to give it all the time she needs to contemplate and think it through. Without any outside input! You don't want to disturb that process by appearing to be pressuring her or waiting for her action-response. Sort of like a hungry wild animal you just gave a food offering to. You withdraw, let them eat, and don't hover. You respect the distance they need to be comfortable eating. Particularly if she liked you and it's clear you are a good match, and you are available, and you are interested. That surely must increase the need for space. That is a lot to contemplate, especially if she wasn't feeling ready for a relationship, and cautions that came up in the conversation require exploring, i.e., you make more or as much as she does and that feels intimidating, and she has to figure out for herself how she could live with/deal with that. Also, you say her comfort zone is "dweebish ILI" and you are a quite a departure from that - she needs time and space to think how/if she can handle this new and unknown.
I think if you ever even imply a push for a response from her concerning the next step, before she had made decision after her necessary introverted contemplation, the safest, automatic, expected reply from her would be "No way, no thanks." So much better than to later regret having too soon and too unknowingly said yes to unforeseen dangers and discomforts! Yes, you are a force to be reckoned with, and that force requires her to put her arm out straight and keep the force back a bit. Space please. Back off now. If/when she is ready, the arm comes down, welcoming you to make that move she knew you had in you all along.
I think Extroverted Gamma types, both you and SEE, tend to be like, "Okay, it's obvious, and to both of us: we are a match. Now let's lay the cards on the table and move this forward!" I think Introverted Gamma really don't want to be rushed and you need to make yourself scarce like you would with that hungry wild animal. The fact that she wrote you flirting texts now that you have accepted the distance does not surprise me. She has not actually closed that door.
If any ESI's are reading this, feedback would be helpful, since I am not an ESI. Does my read of what is going on in ESI's head seem plausible?
Thanks, Eliza. I really appreciate all the work you put into that reply. And the advice is excellent. I didn't know about Fi-doms needing time to process their thoughts, but now I do. Thanks for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason
It is interesting that you suggested that I simply tell her that I respect her wishes, and then withdraw and give her space. When she said last week that she only wanted a business relationship with me, I texted her back and said "I respect that. I know that you know what you want, and I have to say, I hope you will change your mind sometime in the future, but as for now, a business relationship is fine."
However, Eliza, I really don't think she's interested in me, Dual or not-Dual. I've known her for years, and that one date was a very long time ago. If she really wanted a closer relationship, she'd have said something by now.
You know how people can talk about the weather, and simultaneously be describing their true thoughts about marriage or a friend or some problematic person at work? She has done this to me. Once, when I called her about doing some work in the yard, she said the phrase "I don't think they've lost interest yet entirely." She might have been describing a plant's interest in blooming or something, but I took it as an unconscious comment on my interest in her. That happened after a long hiatus during which I didn't call her.
Another thing that I thought was strange was a time, not a date, when she asked me to listen to her car and see if something was loose in the suspension. We drove around and I could hear the noise, and I thought it might be a deteriorating universal joint going to a wheel. These can fail if the boot is cracked, so I parked the car in a lot and scooted under it to look at the universal joint and to see if it had any free play in the critical direction.
Normally, when a guy demonstrates a high level of car-fixing ability, a woman really warms up to him. Not her. She seemed colder towards me after that than she was before. I think this indicates that she sees my mechanical skills as competition. And being a woman in a man's world, she doesn't need any more of that at home.
Truthfully, at this point, I think her interest in me mainly revolves around the fact that I pay my bills on time.
As for her flirting, you know, she's a single woman living alone and she probably wants some male attention every once in a while. That flirting lasted as long as her mood that day, and hasn't been repeated.
Nope. To paraphrase the Magic 8-Ball, "All signs point to No." I don't think she's interested, I believe that she's demonstrating her decision by her actions, and I firmly believe that persistence in the face of disinterest is a waste of time.
BUT, as I said in my earlier post, I learned a lot from this. LIE's can be relentless in their pursuit of a goal and simultaneously be completely tone-deaf when it comes to people's feelings. I'm like that. But now I better understand that she wants to take the lead in a relationship and wants a guy who is more pliable and who has much less Se than I do, and I can easily accept that perspective and move on to someone who is a better match.
Again, thanks for your thoughts. I'm definitely going to keep your advice on Fi in mind when talking with the next female.
LIE: Look at this amazing lakeside house!
ESI: Think of the mosquitoes, though.
You are exactly right. The place is home to billions of hungry mosquitoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddly McFluffles
https://i.imgur.com/FZTGLNE.jpg
There is a pond on the other side of the yellow flowers, and a stream leading through a swamp to a lake on the other side of the trees. Hungry, hungry mosquitoes.
It's not ON a lake, it's only NEAR a lake.
Now, if I had been Dualized, I might not have bought it. Because, you know, ESI's are often right.
Male LIE: Hey, do you want to go out sometime?
Female ESI #1: I really don't seem to have much spare time. I think I might have something else planned. Whenever you call.
Female ESI #2: Haha.
Female ESI #3: No.
Female ESI #4: Are you around at all next week? I'd love to see you when I'm in town.
aw. Hard day, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I make lists like this when it's been a hard day
They say you can't hide things from an Identical. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
https://youtu.be/EzNhaLUT520Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
sits next to you in solidarityQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Mark the Newsreader = possible LSE, Elizabeth Gentle = ESI. Antoine Dodson = IEI, Crime scene investigator = ESIQuote:
Originally Posted by sbbds
"Hide your kids, hide your wife, an' hide (uninteligible) because they rapin' anybody out here." LMFAO.
Lettuce pretend this counts:
ESI-Se: give me the burger
ILI-Ni: *hands it over*
ESI: *takes a bite opposite of where it had been previously bitten and hands it back*
ILI: *looks at it*
ILI: Who eats a burger like this?!
People protecting people from communicable diseases :)Quote:
Originally Posted by chocolatte
Nanashi is highly interested in this ESI-Se knowing only that they are ESI-Se and that they did that. sigh. What am I going to do with you, nanashi?
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
ESI and ILI have recently celebrated their 21st anniversary!
oh actually they didn't because ESI is the least romantic person ever
Maybe not. My last GF told me that I'm not very romantic, so I bought a book with the title 1001 Ways To Be Romantic.Quote:
Originally Posted by chocolatte
All the words were in English, but I could not make any sense out of the sentences.
my EII mom said I'm not very romantic when I said to me romance would be me being so into a guy I gave up my single life and said 'where do I sign' and went to a justice of the peace straigthaway. I think I'm romantic in a 1930s male actor sorta way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
:) ILI gets scolded for wasting money if he tries to buy her roses. views those gestures as superficial/useless because her position is that she already knows he loves her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
@nanashi, that sounds like Katherine Hepburn in a romantic comedy with Spenser Tracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanashi
I worked on a government project two years ago, and one of the guys in the customer’s company was a 28 yo male ESI-Se e6 engineer. In meetings, he would kind of look to me for support without actually needing any support.
The project’s objective was built, accepted, seriously broken in use (I have no idea how they broke it. It was designed to survive 100 g shocks), and returned for repair. The ESI engineer is now in charge of that repair, and he called me with some questions about how to disassemble it, even though he was one of the team that assembled it in the first place.
I gave him some simple advice that he already knew, because that’s all there is to that particular task. He thanked me and said that really helped.
I was puzzled because he already had that information. I think it is possible that he just needed a bit of encouragement from a Dual, to be honest.
I had a date with an ESI (?) who lives an hour away in another town. I gave her directions to the restaurant, the address of the parking lot, my phone number and a time to meet.
She called me five minutes after we were supposed to meet and said she thought she might be in the wrong parking lot. She was, because I was in the right lot and she wasn't there. She described the parking lot as a brick building, but when I eventually found it, it was an open lot next to a brick building.
She said she was having trouble with her car. When she parked, it wouldn't turn off. Then she reparked and the steering froze, but the car did turn off that time. I told her to call the dealer and get it checked, and if she needs a ride anywhere, I could take her there. But then she tried starting the car again, and it started normally and turned off normally, so who knows? Maybe she was in a distracted panic mode when she parked. IDK.
As we were walking towards the restaurant, she said she was glad she knew someone who would help her in this strange city. I said, No problem, I'm just a phone call away and if she has any further problems, I'll come and help her.
I was reminded of this convo when Northstar posted this video (https://youtu.be/N0H48bpJziQ) of a male ESI singing a song. Here are the lyrics.
Lady in Black
Uriah Heep
She came to me one morning
One lonely Sunday morning
Her long hair flowing in the mid-winter wind
I know not how she found me
For in darkness I was walking
And destruction lay around me
From a fight I could not win
Ah, ah, ah
She asked me name my foe then
I said the need within some men
To fight and kill their brothers without thought of men or God
And I begged her give me horses
To trample down my enemies
So eager was my passion to devour this waste of life
Ah, ah, ah
But she would not think of battle that
Reduces men to animals
So easy to begin and yet impossible to end
For she the mother of all men
Had counciled me so wisely that
I feared to walk alone again
And asked if she would stay
Ah, ah, ah
Oh, lady, lend your hand, I cried
Oh, let me rest here at your side
Have faith and trust in me, she said and filled my heart with life
There is no strength in numbers
I've no such misconceptions
But when you need me be assured I won't be far away
Ah, ah, ah
Thus having spoke she turned away
And though I found no words to say
I stood and watched until I saw her black cloak disappear
My labor is no easier
But now I know I'm not alone
I find new heart each time I think upon that windy day
And if one day she comes to you
Drink deeply from her words so wise
Take courage from her as your prize and say hello for me
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah
Incidentally, she was dressed in heels, stockings, a light blue skirt and a bright, very colorful flower pattern top, and I was dressed all in black, from my black dress shoes to my black wool frock overcoat. Black on black. Lol. Se vs. Ni.
Now, the main thing that concerns me is that she looks an awful lot like an SEI most of the time. :( But Duals can look like conflictors, right?
...and Conflictors can look like Duals......
A few men independently over years said I reminded them of a Valkyrie. reminds me of thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
One said he felt rescued.
The flip side is you have to manage your being there for people...not be unjust, etc
you don't need to know right now, Adam. It just feels like you need to know. Nervous is normal. You're going to explore it, and you'll check in with yourself later, but the answer right now is you don't know. You can stop introspecting. It's not our strong suit. And you can be your extroverted self. The thing is reining yourself in from pushing for alliance. Just show up and experience and treat you and her well. You'll either notice you're free to be yourself and are at home and feel positive or you'll feel like you do around nice SEI...Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
"it's like ESI always has a disconnect between her expectations and what she ends up doing, but it's fine because then i get more reason to make fun of her"
I'm beginning to think that the "ESI" I went on a date with didn't just look like an SEI, she might actually be an SEI.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I'm going to be honest, right at the beginning, reading the part about her not being able to park the car (poor functional Te), not knowing enough about the car to use it properly (poor hands on Te), ending up in the wrong place and describing it poorly (poor descriptive Te/Se), and being late, rather than early (doesn't sound Ij), I immediately was reminded of SEIs. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Thanks, @Nobody.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody
Yes, I agree. There are other signs that she is SEI. Her Si is phenomenal. She dresses as well as my SLI ex, which is saying something. I've never met another woman who dresses with the same good taste that my ex did.
Her comments about our lunch date were all about how it tasted and how she felt.
She showed me pictures of her family. Her father looks SLI or ESE (Si for sure) and her son looks LII (Alpha). Her ex-husband looks like an ESE, or less likely, an ILE, the picture wasn't clear. She is complaining that he keeps asking her for money.
She does not seem like an Aggressor, but more like a Caregiver. She works as a Nurse.
I may have done the classic Second-wife thing, and found a woman who is a twin to my ex-wife. FML.
Arguments on the ESI side are that
1. her ex told her that he had never been satisfied with her in their entire marriage.
2. She seems to be absorbing my Te conversations without comment. Either it's a case of her being SEI and getting Te like a deer in the headlights, or she's ESI and just encountering Te for the first time in a Dual. I can't tell which one it is. I mean, when I first started hanging out with an LSI Aggressor after my marriage, it was like stepping from a dark cave into the light of Fi-Role.
3. She looks SEI most of the time, but not strongly like an SEI. When I was talking with her about investing, her face turned entirely to an ESI's.
My theory at this point is that she's an ESI who has been surrounded by Alphas all her life and has made the best of it by adapting. I could be wrong.
At this point, I really don't know. I've been talking with her for five months but we've only met once. I will say that I was pretty comfortable with talking to her in person, while my lunch with an SEI was an experience I don't wish to repeat. I like SEI's a lot for about five minutes, and then things become increasingly strained until I just have to get out of there.
Other potential problems are that she has a nice house on a lake that is an hour's drive away from me, and she lists her political affiliation as Republican. Not good.
I've read that a woman knows within seconds whether she would sleep with a guy or not. When I walked up to her car, she got out and did a slow turn so I could see her from all angles. Would an SEI do that? IDK. Probably that's not a diferentiator between SEI and ESI. :(
I don't know, but it does sound like Se a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
It sounds like she wouldn't even know if she was SEI or ESI though. I knew a supervisor relationship between an SEI and an LSE. The LSE would try and get the SEI involved in whatever tasks they were doing and he would get mad at her for not anticipating what needed to be done. He needed to spell everything out and they would get mad at each other. Their relationship didn't last, even though she admired his Te.
So, just a thought, but maybe you could try doing something Te heavy and she if she's receptive or not? :shrug: And since I'm living vicariously through you, let us know how it turns out. :lol:
I will keep posting here until this relationship either takes off or crashes. She seems to be in no hurry to move it along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody
In the meanwhile, I have my life to live, and the search for someone to share it goes on.
OK, it had to happen eventually. I found @ashlesha's clone on Match. Too bad she lives over an hour away.
An hour, or even two, is not much when you consider how big the world is, both in terms of distance and how few good matches there are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Did I mention that she just dyed her hair purple? Which I think is awesome and says that a woman is ready to rock and roll with a new guy, but I’m not sure if that fits in with my lifestyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minde
I don’t know. She might be fun. I messaged her. We’ll see if she messages back. She might not. It takes two to tango, and she might not like my profile.
The biggest problem with Duality is that the two people are almost complete opposites with very different areas of interest, and the Duality part isn't at all clear over text.
Looks like you didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Do you ever listen to podcasts while driving?
All the time. Do you have some recommendations, or was that just a suggestion for making the time spent driving for an hour not a complete waste of time? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Minde
I would love to have a self-driving car that I trusted. Or better yet, a train that goes between cities.
A Google self-driving car just drove into a section of the road that had just been poured with fresh cement a couple blocks from my house. Everyone was standing around, looking at the car up to its doors in wet cement, watching the cement harden. I don't want to have an AI do that to me by mistaking a bridge abutment for a storm cloud on the horizon.
Suggestions are funny things. I feel weird offering them unless I'm fairly confident they'll be useful and wanted. But, yes, it was a partial suggestion and also a casual quest for more ideas for myself. I don't drive a ton these days, but I do like listening to new thoughts while I do household tasks like clean or cook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
What are some of your favorites?
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
My dad LOVES to retell the story of one of the first self-driving cars that drove into a river because the ferry wasn't actually there at that moment. He worked in technology before it was even a proper profession and despite that I think he'd probably try it out. He has some interesting risk assessments post-retirement.
I was thinking EII or EXFp, reading that, so ...maybe I need to expand my idea of how ESI might present on a dating siteQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
The 44 yo never-been-married ESI whom I went on one date with two years ago and who looks like Peggy Lee and owns a lawn care company called me and asked if I know a good plumber. I gave her the name of a guy that I use and she thanked me and then said she had some other questions.
One of them was whether or not I still saw my ex-wife, and I said that she has been with her new BF since March and I'm glad she found someone. This ESI has insisted on keeping our relationship strictly business, but she remembered the name of my son and my ex. She seems really concerned about whether or not I still see my ex, like that is a huge deal for her for some obscure reason. I repeated that No, I don't see her much anymore at all. The ESI was laughing and kind of teasing on the phone and I thought she sounded horny but I figured that she is Avoidant and I'm not going to try to kick Lucy's football again until she clearly asks for it.
She then asked me if I knew anything about plumbing myself and I said I did. She asked me if I thought I could change a 3/4" valve from round-handle compression style to a lever-handled ball valve, and I said I could and I might even have the valve she needs in my basement, but I'd have to see the valve in question to know for sure, since they come in different styles.
She said, "Can you be absolutely sure that you can change the valve, or not? I don't want to be without hot water for a day."
"No, I can't be absolutely sure, not until I see the valve."
"It's in my basement."
"I'm busy right now, but I could be there in an hour to look at it and then I could tell you either A. I can fix it immediately, or B. I don't have the shutoff valve that will fit and you'll have to wait until Saturday when I can buy the right valve and install it."
"You could be here in an hour?" Now she wasn't sounding so bright and perky.
"Yes."
"How do I know that you'll keep your word?"
"What? It's ten minutes to collect the tools, ten minutes out the door and twenty minutes to your place. I doubt if I'll get lost."
"But you aren't certain that you can fix it. Never mind. I'll just call a plumber tomorrow." Lol.
"OK, fine. Let me know if you need any more help." Like when you're eighty.
See, for example, the first line under the heading "Chapter Four. Overview."
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ng-an-ISFj-ESI
... Could she take a picture of the valve so you could see it? Or call a plumber if you got there and it wasn't the right one? I feel like there are a few more options than what was considered and eliminated, lol. Maybe she was flustered and they didn't occur to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I'm not an ESI, but when I was single one of my plausibly deniable flirting techniques was to ask for advice or help. I had a very similar interaction to the one you describe with my now-husband a few months before we started dating. My car brakes needed replacing and I made a FB post asking for advice from anyone who cared to answer. Of course, the kind of person who would answer and be actually helpful is the kind of person I wanted to interact with more, and I figured it could be a great opportunity to build up some relational strength/ties. My now-husband answered with not only advice but an offer to help me do it if I could bring my car out to where he lived. It turned out those particular brakes were the more complicated kind, and I ended up determining that it would be more practical and efficient to just take it into my regular mechanic, especially since he lived 45 minutes away and I would have been cold the whole time. I wasn't that motivated. So I never actually utilized the offered help.
Fortunately he still invited me to group things he organized and included me on a few email list kinds of things and appeared at mutual friend gatherings, so I had more opportunities to explore his potential and create connection.
So, anyway, different dynamic than your particular types, but I thought the similarity in situation was kinda interesting.