what is it with INFP guys?
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what is it with INFP guys?
I'll expand.
It seems like they run from their own shadow. How is it that these people mate??????
I think you only met the F ones not the N ones heh. They can be pretty aggressive in short bursts (like INTps). I wonder how male INFjs do it as they have all the problems INTjs have with the "feminine" perceptions on top of that.
Thanks for the input. I'm not putting them (INFP men) down, but he always doubts himself. He asked me what I thought of him, but before I answered I asked him if he felt that I was sincere with my words and actions? He said yes. So I told him what I thought of him and it was all good, no criticism or "you can do better". I've told him constantly that I accept him for who he is.
He replied that he thought I was silly for thinking he was good looking. I told him that it didnt worry me, and that I felt like I was watching two of him in a tube fighting over whether to believe me or not.
Go figure.
One of my best friends is INFp. We have been friends since middle school. A couple of weeks ago i was drunk and talking socionics with him and an ISTj. The ISTj, of course, couldn't handle the conversation because it just didn't fit and was too out there for him. My INFp friend, however, took the hidden agenda idea very personally, he goes "you're saying i don't understand things! you're saying i don't understand" and i felt bad, because it really wasn't the intention of me to insult him. He has enough troubles as it is in life with girls and so forth(i agree with the shadow thing) having an ISTj in our 'group' doesn't help matters much, either. I suffer socially because the ISTj see's everyone as a potential threat and lives in a selfish and destructive world, whereas the INFp never speaks up and seems to avoid pushiness as much as possible. it is a difficult friendship, only satisfying in the sense that he is the most creatively humorous person that i have ever met. he has so many dreams, but he just can't break through the confidence issues.
man, you have been waiting to get me on something :D Now what you are saying isn't fully true. INFp's have an unconscious Ti, they think Te. Te is attached to the outer world. They have trouble understanding the inner workings of things. This is true. The ENTp has trouble knowing how much Fe is being given.to them. Obviously they(INFp) may "understand" but they are, deep down, never aware, it is unconscious. Now we can get in a muddled argument, but i don't think my understanding is quite vague at all.
I obviously elaborated more with him on it, and i let my words slip a little (i was drunk). Transigent, you can't set me straight, im straight as an arrow and im headed towards the bull's-eye.
I use the "strong" and "weak" as adapted from the information metabolism model displayed on tommylove's site. It seems to work. Obviously we are all working on this, but trying to insult me is pretty ridiculous, to be honest. Your analysis is also quite unstructured and doesn't really prove a point at all. Your little aphorisms mean nothing to me.
and when did i say that i said he didn't understand things? He said that, i didn't.
:D
you're cool, you're cool.
I want to add, I respect the way you see this. I don't want to insult you. I know that there is great power in :Fi: . I often talk socionics with an ENFp and i am fascinated by their ability to grasp the relationship aspect of it, it is impressive and helpful. So i do often gain from the posts you write. But I will say, i speak structurally when i post. It may not seem it if you don't manage the knowledge as "strongly", but what i say has an order to it. It is a consistent order as well, which i am continually developing. I don't want to argue with you, because you are an intelligent person, but i am definitely working in a framework. I made a harmless and brief anecdotal post and i don't see why you had to go into attack mode on my :Ti: . uncalled for and ridiculous.
I don't mean to be picky,although it will certainly SEEM that way, but an arrow isn't completely straight; it has two angles.
:P
Blah Blah Blah.
So what's his (INFP) problem??? First off, I don't understand how he ever scored. From what I know, his past girlfriends were all witches and one made him take an IQ test...an IQ TEST!!! Can you imagine?? I'm the nicest thing (from my point of view) that's come along and I just dont understand what the hold up is.
But he's hot. He's a total geek (I love geeks) and he's hot. He's also a leo. He's got this shy smile and this man could walk on my back with nails coming out of his shoes and I'd say...more please. I'm just kidding. But seriously, I think the sun shines on him.
lol, it was just a common figure of speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticSonic
The collective of annoying detail-whores don't care.
Edited for gayness.
LOL, oh transigent. Well just so long as you don't hate me, because i sort of thought that and it made me angry.
Now I know there is this sketchiness about what is unconscious, vital, subconscious, etc...
I also understand where alot of this might not be your bag. Alot of times it isn't really my bag, either. I try to speak in terms of the information given. Now we will need more info on how the functions interact, but I'm pretty sure that what is conscious somehow makes its inverted version "un/subconscious" or "vital". This appears to be "correction" which is stated on the description of the model A on lytov's site. There is also the info on Admin's site, im not sure where it was drawn. This talks of Active will, authority, phobia and neuroses. Apparently the Active will consists of the 1st and 5th, and it follows that pattern through to neuroses. Why, structurally this is, i can't quite explain yet, but i am trying, and getting close to a "structural" explanation. Basically, I am trying to figure out as exactly as possible, what the hell is going on and how these ideas came to be. The translations can often be to the point of incomprehensibility. I just want to come to the point of "aha! this is what they were talking about!" but this is difficult to do because things change form through translation and evolution.
Yeah, i agree about all of the fuzziness about intelligence and how it is defined and so forth. I think that alot of this is because there are alot of inconsistencies in wording and definitions. I agree with you in many ways in your definitions of what it exactly is to understand. By understanding i am thinking in terms of "Strong Ti=understanding". I know that understanding has many different definitions, and i can see where a disagreement can surface. But the definition of "understanding" i drew from Ganin's site, and i think that the idea of "hidden agenda" might be his own idea which he coined the word to best describe the problems of weak conscious producing Te. According to lytov's site, the relationship between identical and mirrors is "direct understanding". If you are ENFp then our relationship is direct understanding with inhibition. So, all types can be seen as understanding types, so long as you make clear your definitions.
So we just mis-"understood" one another :wink:
So yeah, this is just a silly argument that stole the thread, but it's funny and i'm smiling right now.
But we are probably looking for different things. I really think that this is an ENFp and ENTp thing. Could be wrong, you're right, i never met you.
But your ideas are always appreciated by me. I'm glad we don't hate one another. :D
But hey, no hard feelings. It was actually fun arguing with you.
Oh, don't tell me you changed your type again, Transigent!Quote:
But we are probably looking for different things. I really think that this is an ENFp and ENTp thing.
The Infp hidden agenda- my own hidden agenda, from my point of view, seems misinterprited. It is not that I don't understand things. I can bluntly state that i do not have a weak understanding, infact, I think I generally have a much better understanding of the world around me then most people(though I can be very....aloof). What I see in the INFP hidden agenda is that its simply a craving for more. It's not that I dont have understanding already, but I NEVER feel like I understand enough. It's like I'm always seeking, always asking why, constantly. I can't get a break. I continually ask myslef why this, why that, all in an effort to understand. Even when I understand things I feel like I dont understand enough. Theres so much that I DONT understand, and it leads me on a constant search for more. I can't stop. That craving and that question of WHY runs through everything I do. THAT is why it is the hidden agenda. It truely makes perfect sence, and, in a way sort of leads my life. So, now I'm left wondering... do any other types want to put their input in on their own agenda and maybe try to help the rest of us out a bit?
HarryBottom,
So...what you're saying is if I like this guy, and he likes me, he wants further confirmation? Just asking.
You know, you INFP guys are hot!
HarryBottom, I think you are right on this. I do also think that the hidden agenda just doesn't get enough of attention, when it gets one. I'm bad at explaining things in logicall structure and I rather have just observations, which I have collected over the time and I have noticed that hidden agenda :Ti: types need this when people are praising how logical and understanding they are. :Ti: in my oppinnion is made from what I have read with my poor English and :Ti: is an aspect of reality of bonds between the objects, be it in space or in abstract description. INFP, I think, doesn't realize them not so much and because it is hidden agenda, stories about what you can see in the aspect of :Ti: make you feel good. I think that likeing is somehow related to hidden agenda and there are 8 types of likeing dependent on the type and knowing you are liked by INFP is, when someone is explaining something logically to it. And surely they need to know how much you like them and so you can manipulate with INFPs by telling how greatly they know complex things. The 3rd block is the block of inner child and let this child be happy.
Hope my post made any sence.
Right. I don't think IxFPs have difficulty understanding things... but ExFPs do.
Yah, totally. He'll definately want further conformation that you like him. Definately. That would be one of the best things you could do for him, because he'll constantly be wondering.Quote:
HarryBottom,
So...what you're saying is if I like this guy, and he likes me, he wants further confirmation? Just asking.
You know, you INFP guys are hot!
LOL...are you sure about that?
I heard that Oprah tested as an ExFP.
I dont think ENFP's really have a problem understanding things. From my experience, they seem to be extremely smart(although they may come off differently) and good at just about everything.Quote:
Right. I don't think IxFPs have difficulty understanding things... but ExFPs do.
Now, ESFJ's and ESFP's, on the other hand, they just DONT GET IT. ESPECIALLY ESFJ's. You can say something so clear and to their face and they'll still respond with "huh?" or "I don't get it." It's funny how see through and open-book like they are with their facial expressions. You can see the bewilderment on their face. ESFP's aren't quite so bad... and I like them, so no offence in their case. They don't have an insanely strong inclanaion towards constant lying/denial patterns (that they think they pull off so well), that they somehow justify within their own mind, like ESFJ's.
She's definately gotta be an ENFP, because there's no way she's an ESFP. That would make sence because ENFP's tend to like to help people, and are gererally pretty smart. ESFP's would rather not think about it...... ESFP's would rather not think, lol. :wink:Quote:
I heard that Oprah tested as an ExFP.
There seems to be a correlation between HB's take on the INFp hidden agenda and what wrote in this thread: oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=495Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryBottom
Trying to understand himself better?Quote:
Originally Posted by In a different thread,
Actually, she tested as ESFP.Quote:
She's definately gotta be an ENFP, because there's no way she's an ESFP. That would make sence because ENFP's tend to like to help people, and are gererally pretty smart. ESFP's would rather not think about it...... ESFP's would rather not think, lol.
Some sites listed her as ENFP or ENFJ. I wonder if she didn't agree with that and decided to take the test. But yeah with all of the stereotypes I've heard about ESFP's, it is strange to see her as one...
I'm pretty sure she is an ENFP.Quote:
Actually, she tested as ESFP.
Some sites listed her as ENFP or ENFJ. I wonder if she didn't agree with that and decided to take the test. But yeah with all of the stereotypes I've heard about ESFP's, it is strange to see her as one...
As for my comment about ExFPs not understanding things, I was trying to make a distintion between them and IxFPs. Some people think that i an IxFP has a hidden agenda of "to understand" (Ti) then that means their weak point in understanding things. That is not the case. An IxFP weak point is Te, not Ti. An ExFP's weak point is Ti (understanding).
Yah, thats extremely odd. The only reason I was so sure is that my brother is an ESFP, and I could never see him in those shoes.Quote:
with all of the stereotypes I've heard about ESFP's, it is strange to see her as one...
I guess it could be a subtype thing. The ethical and sensory subtypes are pretty different....if she is ESFP she is the sensory subtype.
I gotcha, were on the same wavelength. :DQuote:
As for my comment about ExFPs not understanding things, I was trying to make a distintion between them and IxFPs. Some people think that i an IxFP has a hidden agenda of "to understand" (Ti) then that means their weak point in understanding things. That is not the case. An IxFP weak point is Te, not Ti. An ExFP's weak point is Ti (understanding).
That would explain it.Quote:
I guess it could be a subtype thing. The ethical and sensory subtypes are pretty different....if she is ESFP she is the sensory subtype.
I guess that would go along perfectly. It is true that I never stop searching to find out more about myself. Understanding yourself is part of understanding as a whole. Thats why I'm so obsessed with all this personality stuff I guess, It brings me closer in my search for understanding. :wink:Quote:
In a different thread, wrote:
It seems like there is no end. Do INFPs stop asking themselfs "Who am I" ever? After finding socionics it stopped for a couple of months and these days it seems like I'm starting to bang my head with this stupid question again regardless of the fact that I am full of facts and analysis for myself. Or better find some new stuff with which I can identify myself? lol
Trying to understand himself better?
Isn't Oprah an ENFP with an ethical subtype?
No. Marilyn Monroe, Britney Spears, and Cameron Diaz are good examples of ENFP ethical subtype. And all of the ENFP's that I know have more of a girly girl and feminine qualityabout them.
I think Marilyn Monroe is an ISFP-ethical and Britney Spears is an ESFP-ethical. You might be right about Cameron Diaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
http://www.typelogic.com/isfp.html .....says Brittany Spears is an ISFPQuote:
Britney Spears is an ESFP-ethical
Marilyn didn't have the body language and "down to earth" friendly personality of an ISFP. ENFP are sociable but perky and come off as being flirty (even the more introverted ones)...
My mom is ISFP ethical subtype (who are typically meso-endos) and I know other ISFP's. And I've noticed that they have a certain signature smile. It's softer and warmer than the ENFP full faced and "flirty" smiles. Well, anyways it's hard to explain but after observing the different types it's easy to see the different mannerisms and "vibes" of the types/subtypes.
And Sandra Bullock is a good example of an ESFP ethical subtype.
True those are the intuite subtypes. THe ones that I know are kind/thoughtful and love to give advice.
THe ethical subtypes are outgoing but aren't necessarily "flirty", they just come across that way. They are generally sweet and sociable.
Thanks Harry Bottom.
I think INFP is very difficult to understand. I constantly hear from my INXX friends that they think they're more complex and prone to feeling moreso than E types. Be that as it may, I found INXX's are lousy communicators.
I decided to just let him be. I'm here if he wants to talk to me, but I'm not going to be the chaser. I can only tell someone how I feel but after that I'm like, if you dont believe me then your the one with the problem.
Its such a shame becuase he's a beautiful person and as I said before...he's hot.
and hey, who cares about britney spears? start your own friggin discussion.
Well as an INFP/INTP guy let me just say that we can be incredibly shy and unsure of ourselves. We're intuitive, so that sets us apart from the majority of the population and makes it difficult to relate to and interact with people. Next we're introverted which only compounds the problem. Finally, as F guys we live in a society that conditions us to want to be chest-beating T's, and if we're not there must be something wrong with us. That just alienates us further.
Lets just say that my childhood was a bit awkward. I never really had any close friends, and never dated any girls. I could barely figure out my own male-species and myself, so I figured women and me would be a lost cause.
But then I got to college and all that changed. I met an ESTJ girl who accepted me as I was, believed in me, encouraged me, and today she's my wife. :) It's funny though, before we started dating she said she was TOTALLY hitting on me and flirting, but I was just so dumb when it came to women and "signals" that I never even realized it. My roommate at the time was friends with her, and she told him that she really liked me and that if I asked her out she'd say yes. So I did. The rest is history. :P
So my advice to the thread starter, if you like this guy, ask HIM out, or ask him to ask you out flat out. :lol: Yes, a bit unconventional, but you say you really like him and he's a very rare and unconventional guy. Just take a little initiative and then let him pick things up from there.
Steve
I think also INFPs are the type most inclined to be unsure. I know some ISFPs , they sometimes also have problems with there confidence, but not as much as INFPs often have, because there :Si: provides them with a much better connection to the 'real' world.
For me I can say I know this Situation from my youth when a girl is flirting with me and about a week later I start thinking "Hey, has this girl really flirted with ME?? Am I REALLY sure she meant ME? Damn!"
Today this realization goes much faster but can also take up to an hour or longer. And I also like it when girls start the Interaction with me. Its nothing more than a clichee that the man should start everything, Ihope for all INFP guys this is going to break up in the future :wink:
"So my advice to the thread starter, if you like this guy, ask HIM out, or ask him to ask you out flat out. Yes, a bit unconventional, but you say you really like him and he's a very rare and unconventional guy. Just take a little initiative and then let him pick things up from there"
Thank you so much for sharing it from your point of view, this is exactly what I was looking for. Just an insight as to how some INFP's view things. I've decided to be patient after realizing I'm actually very busy and shouldn't be in a hurry to develop anything just yet.
And I'm totally glad that your wife is an E, Im an E and that gives me hope.
THanks again!!!!
"And I also like it when girls start the Interaction with me. Its nothing more than a clichee" that the man should start everything, Ihope for all INFP guys this is going to break up in the future"
The voices of wisdom, :)
Thank you!!!
Transigent, it is those blocks of wisdom that really make me glad to know you are alive. :D
I'm more interested in hearing from INFP's and how they perceive these things than how people reject each other.
But thanks for your input.
This is definately a good idea, but make SURE that he really does like you. Don't make assumptions. It would be horrible to put him in a situation where he doesn't like you. He would first have to go through all the guilt he felt for saying no, and then more yet for trying to explain to you why he said so. I, personally, HATE asumptions. Make sure that he likes you, and that he is very comfortable with you. Talk to him a lot, form a stable relationship with him(though, yes, being an INFP, this may be hard), then ask him out. Don't at all expect him to take action, because he will be very unsure of himself. If he on some odd chance does, you have been blessed.Quote:
But do "ask him out", but be somewhat sure that he likes you first, because situations like this can get slightly awkward and full of tension if something "isn't right"...
harry said it.
Yeah :) That was very funny to notice. I remember I laughed a lot when I wrote that.Quote:
here seems to be a correlation between HB's take on the INFp hidden agenda and what wrote in this thread: oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=495
In a different thread, wrote:
It seems like there is no end. Do INFPs stop asking themselfs "Who am I" ever? After finding socionics it stopped for a couple of months and these days it seems like I'm starting to bang my head with this stupid question again regardless of the fact that I am full of facts and analysis for myself. Or better find some new stuff with which I can identify myself? lol
Trying to understand himself better?
This reminds me of a situation I was in recently. As an INFP male, I know what he's going through. If he's anything like me, he'll have had situations all through his life where he's witnessed peoples feelings change rapidly, and as an INFP his feelings are much more intense (even if he doesn't let on) so if he starts to see others feelings as transitory, he'll start to believe that everyone is like this, especially when it comes to him. He'll also be pretty sure that you don't feel as he does, making him want to protect those feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by person that started this
Perhaps even get rid of them completely. Your situation is so similar to one I was just in. I had very very intense feelings for a girl (still do, really) and it seemed like she had feelings for me too. Things were going great but then one night I interpreted her actions personally, she seemed apathetic, detached, cold towards me. I'd seen this before, and my feelings became erratic, all I wanted to do was protect myself. So I bailed, I fled, ran.
Well she got pretty upset, and I saw what I'd done (felt like a real prick) so we tried to continue, we kept talking etc but she stopped putting in any effort (as you have now decided to do) well this put me off, because I can't survive if it isn't 50/50, I just can't do it. I already question things far too much and if I'm not getting that positive input, for me it's over. I'll detach to protect my intense feelings, otherwise I can feel my mental health start to slip.
So just recently I've cut all contact. It wasn't what I *wanted* to do, it was what I had to do for my own health.
INFPs need assurance, the more effort you put in the more effort we'll put in, and it should be vice versa as well. I guess this is difficult for most females to understand (especially the one I was involved with) as most guys are happy to persist and will put in most of the effort. But not INFPs, we have no trouble in cutting you out of our lives if you don't give us the same attention we give you. Perhaps this is unfair but it has to be that way to protect the intense feelings that afflict us.
very insightful. You two (the other INFP I know) could be brothers!
Okay, so...I'll stick to it and just be patient.
Just so you know, I view his actions as "game playing". But I'm glad that I've taken the time to "understand" him by looking up his personality type; otherwise, I would've taken the same road as the girl you know. It's not a mean statement, I've just never "dated" or seriously considered an "INFP".
I'm an E and so have all the other people I've dated. The INFP dude is very much unlike anyone I've ever met before, you guys have a lot going for you. But it seems like the INFP way in thinking and reacting to situations make them seem like Players, and I dont think they are. I sense he's not, and I also sense he means well, which is why I'm being patient.
THanks for the information, very insightful.
What you have to understand, and this is from my perspective and I may be wrong :). But if he has feelings for you, they are only for you, and he won't feel them for anyone else. I know I personally have come across many females who've had strong feelings for more than one person, which I've always remembered, and has made me suspicious of their intentions.
I guess what I'm trying to say and I tryed to say before is that whether we are or not, us INFPs feel very different from everyone else and it puts us at a disadvantage, I don't think you'd have a real idea how it feels to be an INFP. You feel much like an alien. So overtime we end up building a pretty big wall to protect us, to keep out those who would knowingly or unknowningly bring harm to us. Which is (just another one of the reasons as to) why we have to be completely sure of your feelings and intentions. And also why we may come across as being a "player" or "aloof."
I know this makes it difficult and yes, we can be scared off pretty easily. Personally, I think you have to make him know that you match his feelings. I can't tell you how to do this, but I think you should know already. Are we INFPs really worth that effort? You tell me.
Because I still haven't figured that out. :)
I think you guys are, but you have to do better at responding.
I sent him an email saying I couldn't cut it and that yes, I do have feelings for him but I for my sanity's sake (not 2nd guessing etc) I would prefer that the person in my life not be so hard to get to know. I think things should flow smoothly. I stated that yeah, I did fall for him last year and I"ve maintained it throughout this year, but I can't stand the silent treatments I get after we discuss these things. I feel like i"m being punished for sharing my feelings. So rather than be punished for expressing how I feel, I think it's better he find someone he can trust (as far as expressing how I feel) and who he can return those feelings to.
If you guys would only exert a little effort, you'd get whatever you wanted.
That was a really good move. I wish you the best of luck, I realise how hard it must be and I apologise for him. ;)
Tell him to stop following the path of least resistance, because he'll end up hurting himself.
Thanks for all the good info! It's better to understand than to act out against something you don't understand.
How did it go?
Well. I sent him that letter.
He emailed me back two weeks later to let me know his interconnection is now up (yeah right, but it's all good) and he answered my email.
I emailed him back.
Then I decided to cut through the bull and I called him today during my lunch hour. We had a long talk. I told him what I thought. I asked what we were (because of the distance), he said he didnt know, and truthfully, neither do I. (Trust me, this is a loooonng story if I ever went into it). We're at a point where something has got to happen. You know, like the buildup is there, but you have to do something about it.
The thing is. He is so friggin intelligent. He has a very high I.Q. And for me, that's what makes him hot. He just doesn't know!!
Anyway, I flat out asked him when we're hooking up. I'm super busy and juggling balls in the air. We're thinking of meeting in a month. Can we hold out until then? Yeah, I think so. I'm not doing anything but staying busy until then. He is going to Turkey next week for vacation. HOw fun is that??? WIsh i could go.
But in the words of Waynes world, GAME ON.
I have to say that I'm a total extrovert and I think I communicate fairly well, even when things arent going my way. I found that I have to take the lead on the conversation because he wont. BUt he follows my lead and is very honest and forthright (thats so hot!!) and gentle and nice...you guys are too much!!!
I dont know how other INFP dudes are, the only reason I know is because he took the test one evening when we were talking just to see what I was talking about.
I can tell you for sure, he's the first one I've ever met. And he's hot.
Haha, it all sounds so familiar. Good luck. :)
You know, I"ve never chased a guy. I'd rather go without. And right now, I do know someone who is interested in going out, but i'm like...let me take care of this urge (to hook with INFP) first. Because I have to know.
Now, what is it that you INFP's have that makes people want to be near you? Did you ever see that movie with John Travolta where he is an angel and the women won't leave him alone? They're like, oooh, he smells like fresh baked cookies, or chocolate, something they want? Well, it's not that bad. But...he's definitely the first introvert I've ever been attracted head on.
I just recently read this whole forum and it hit right at home. You see i'm a INFP and a similar situation of these relationships happened to me. She initiated everything, but i was confused at her intentions. I only realized what happened after we graduated two months after graduation. I had no way of contacting her, but i couldn't get my mind off of her. By chance I saw her at the drive thru when she was working at McDonald's. Two days later I came back and we started talking, I felt some distance or disinterest from her and became confused. I felt so insecure and soon left. I regret it, but was scared to go back. My inability to start relationships is the thing I dislike most about being a infp and I feel so alone, but there is always hope.
Thats very true. My ENFP friend had helped me open up to others unlike anyone else I've ever known. And yes, I can very easily be myself around him. Unfortunately, I don't know any ENFP chicks very well. But I still know what your saying wih the understanding thing.