ESIs/ISFjs are not inherently more moral.

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Originally Posted by Aramas

Calling Fi "ethics" in English Socionics terminology has led people to focus wrongly on a phenomenon that is determined by all the information elements. "Feeling" is actually a better word for Fi and Fe. Its associations are closer to the actual reality of Fi and Fe.

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I tend to agree (not so sure about the examples though). "Feeling" is not perfect either but it's preferable to "ethics". Augusta's reason for changing the terminology is a bit obscure, maybe it makes more sense in Russian.

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Originally Posted by thehotelambush

I tend to agree (not so sure about the examples though). "Feeling" is not perfect either but it's preferable to "ethics". Augusta's reason for changing the terminology is a bit obscure, maybe it makes more sense in Russian.

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Yeah there might be some lost in translation issue there. I don't know Russian so I can't comment.

The only type that is inherently moral is the INTp, and only because we're sane tryhard perfectionists. I'll stop meming now. Also, that's if you ignore the prostitution.

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Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky

They just want their own way.

UPDATE: OR ARE THEY?

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I think as an argument the concept of moral-licensing or self-licensing would be interesting. https://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/mo...-make-you-bad/

This is only objective insofar as I'm using myself as a barometer and I think type is bs anyway...but in this thread I keep seeing Fi described as quiet/unexpressed feelings and I think that's not quite right if said feelings are happiness, sadness etc. for any reason. I don't think Fi types have stronger feelings than other people in general that just aren't expressed, that seems crazy. I think Fi does associate itself with things like preferences. Attitudes. Consistent feeling-based inclinations. Aversions. Values, even if they're personal and idiosyncratic or inconsistent or situation-dependent, leading to hypocrisy. How do I feel about X over time, what's my attitude towards X when I see it again? Not just how do I feel right now. Which would make Fi base types more predictable, I guess, if the particular inclination you've discovered in them holds across spheres as much as you think? Lol, but not more moral because the inclination could be to eat babies or something. Maybe only on Tuesdays though.

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Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky

They just want their own way.

UPDATE: OR ARE THEY?

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No type has cornered the market on morality. Now, Fi-types do tend to act in a moralistic way even when what they're doing is far from moral. All types usually want it their own way but most are willing to compromise, including ESIs. Most Ij-types (and Eps) tend to think that they hold the high ground with respect to their rationalization whereas Ejs and Ips tend to think that they 'know' best - it's all about ego. I've seen copies of all types with high moral fibre and other copies, the scum of the earth.......:content:

a.k.a. I/O

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Originally Posted by FDG

Healthy Fi types are inherently more moral in their behavior because that's the way they interpret life. They will fulfill their obligations, be polite with everyone, etc etc just like a healthy Se type will be kinda bossy with everyone but in a way that benefits the whole environment.
Unhealthy Fi types have been nicely described by jung - crazy scheming paraonoids who can justify the worst actions in themselves just because others are'evil'

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Yeah, I think if we're talking about healthy types, Fi egos have the ingrained sensitivity to take in an emotional understanding of other people and have a lot more potential to form positive relations from this. Good Fi is awesome. And that in itself leads to a kind of charm and consideration of other people that becomes its own kind of ethic - something that Ti ego types can't really logic their way through.

To everyone else,
IMO anyway; I don't really get the hardcore Fi bashing as some kind of self-indulgent narcissistic mental process. In my experience anyway, if an Fi ego lashes out, it's usually because they feel hurt or victimized or something like that (whether it's even true or not which aligns with Jung's idea of paranoia and such), which is a far cry from selfishly following emotional whims and desires that just disregard other people. Maybe that applies more to weak Fi valuing types and unvalued Fi types.
But I just don't think that's specifically Fi cause some of the cruelest most self-indulgent people I've known in my life have been Fe egos anyway. :shrug:

the interesting example of possible ESI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb4qVoFHl8g
Grace Slick

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Originally Posted by Sol

the interesting example of possible ESI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb4qVoFHl8g
Grace Slick

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k4 types Her SLE. ....(?)

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Originally Posted by Dalek Caan

Yeah, I think if we're talking about healthy types, Fi egos have the ingrained sensitivity to take in an emotional understanding of other people and have a lot more potential to form positive relations from this. Good Fi is awesome. And that in itself leads to a kind of charm and consideration of other people that becomes its own kind of ethic - something that Ti ego types can't really logic their way through.

To everyone else,
IMO anyway; I don't really get the hardcore Fi bashing as some kind of self-indulgent narcissistic mental process. In my experience anyway, if an Fi ego lashes out, it's usually because they feel hurt or victimized or something like that (whether it's even true or not which aligns with Jung's idea of paranoia and such), which is a far cry from selfishly following emotional whims and desires that just disregard other people. Maybe that applies more to weak Fi valuing types and unvalued Fi types.
But I just don't think that's specifically Fi cause some of the cruelest most self-indulgent people I've known in my life have been Fe egos anyway. :shrug:

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I think what is going on here is people online catch a glimpse of Fi processes that in real life would ottherwise be hidden from view as in internal. If these walls could talk sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by timber

k4 types Her SLE. ....(?)

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mb. the example, where she clearly looks shy as introvert [and seems has nun inspired suite :) ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klRoSj0nYmE

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Originally Posted by Sol

mb. the example, where she clearly looks shy as introvert [and seems has nun inspired suite :) ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klRoSj0nYmE

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Yup. Her bassist is more outgoing than her.

The topic of morality is mostly a parlor game of philosophers, jurists, and theologians. Anybody talking at length about it probably isn't Fi ego.

Some are (speaking of my aunt); they are more about relations (maintaining their close relationships)

ESI's are so sexy. Gotta love that morality