Let's discuss SLE

1. Able to make lasting relations
2. Protective. From an SLE friend "You can recognize an ESTP by his tribes. They have many groups loyal to them, like my crew for the last 12 years, my team in the office. Older ESTP’s, i.e. over 40 years old, also tend to have deeper meaningful relationships (Fe-Ni). We are protectors of the people in our tribe. The people under my wing have a lion at the gate.
I still feel responsible for people who worked in my team many years ago. If their current manager doesn’t treat them well, I will kick his ass. I see the same with two ESTP managers and I love to see how they operate!"
3. Like using humor more.
4. Strive to provide the highest quality in goods and service.
5. Work at something for a very long time. Work in science diligently. Dedicate to something they take pleasure in for a long time Ni.
6. Can be extremely frugal living on a skimpy means.
7. Humor, funny, even in subtle ways.
8. Sympathetic
9. Want to be LOVED so they are among the most sympathetic types.
10. Strong...consistently physically train at something "If we have fear it would be to be a coward.There were times when it would be much smarter to run away from danger but I tend to stay because running away would make me feel weak."
11. Can make harsh or rude jokes that may offend sensitive Fi types like "I can make a cruel joke with my Fi blind-spot. Like at high-school a girl would ask me if I like dogs and I would say: yes, medium done with ketchup." AND "Or if they ask me why I don’t give money to a beggar, my Se-Ti responds by saying he should not beg but do something useful to make money. Not a joke but that’s just how I think." Fi finds this harsh because one should love and care for dogs and the homeless are in such a circumstance for various reasons and don't make fun of the unfortunate. have some compassion
12. Positive-Silver lining kind of person

An ennobling and attractive representation. Also, at least 90% snipes my best friend.

Sorry Y'all, we can't all have the best Dual :agent:

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Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx

An ennobling and attractive representation. Also, at least 90% snipes my best friend.

Sorry Y'all, we can't all have the best Dual :agent:

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Wonderful!
Would you happen to have observations that you can add to my list? (Ever expanding)

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Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx

Sorry Y'all, we can't all have the best Dual :agent:

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:( don't have to rub it in my face

Now, able to make lasting relationships, mostly only with people from their 'clan'...

I get that this is trying to be positive about your conflictor but idk.

Yes we can make positive lasting relations, if our Fe HA is good enough. But we don’t ever have good control over this per se, except post facto. I can’t really just fabricate good relations like strong ethical types can. If I have a good relationship with someone, it’s that I happen to have been put into a situation close together with them, we inherently get along and I (or they) haven’t messed it up yet.

I cannot speak for all SLEs, I guess I’m a more sensitive “harmonizing” type SLE, but when I get close to someone and let them in, it really takes a lot and I let them deep in to register them as part of my “clan” or whatever (really I think this stereotype is stupidly overblown just because of the image of team sports, and we’re mostly lone wolf independent type people at the core). I think about how to give people I care about objective positive benefit in their life, so that probably helps with keeping good relations.

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Originally Posted by FDG

Now, able to make lasting relationships, mostly only with people from their 'clan'...

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Sometimes you remind me of this slender old LIE-looking lady I saw at my dentist’s office once. She chastised me for talking to my mom in a way she didn’t approve of, and I told her she should sit down so the dust wouldn’t fall out of her vagina.

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Originally Posted by Beautiful sky

11. Can make harsh or rude jokes that may offend sensitive Fi types like "I can make a cruel joke with my Fi blind-spot. Like at high-school a girl would ask me if I like dogs and I would say: yes, medium done with ketchup." AND "Or if they ask me why I don’t give money to a beggar, my Se-Ti responds by saying he should not beg but do something useful to make money. Not a joke but that’s just how I think." Fi finds this harsh because one should love and care for dogs and the homeless are in such a circumstance for various reasons and don't make fun of the unfortunate. have some compassion

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This is really unrealistic. I would say something like, “The poor are systematically oppressed, but so am I.”

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12. Positive-Silver lining kind of person

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Originally Posted by sbbds

I get that this is trying to be positive about your conflictor but idk.

Yes we can make positive lasting relations, if our Fe HA is good enough. But we don’t ever have good control over this per se, except post facto. I can’t really just fabricate good relations like strong ethical types can. If I have a good relationship with someone, it’s that I happen to have been put into a situation close together with them, we inherently get along and I (or they) haven’t messed it up yet.

I cannot speak for all SLEs, I guess I’m a more sensitive “harmonizing” type SLE, but when I get close to someone and let them in, it really takes a lot and I let them deep in to register them as part of my “clan” or whatever (really I think this stereotype is stupidly overblown just because of the image of team sports, and we’re mostly lone wolf independent type people at the core). I think about how to give people I care about objective positive benefit in their life, so that probably helps with keeping good relations.

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I have great examples of sle in ltr joe Biden, Gordon Ramsey

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Originally Posted by Beautiful sky

I have great examples of sle in ltr joe Biden, Gordon Ramsey

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Why are you responding with this lol

I didn’t say we couldn’t have ltr. My point is just that the wording of “make” good relations is questionable.

Post if you want though...

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Originally Posted by sbbds

Why are you responding with this lol

I didn’t say we couldn’t have ltr. My point is just that the wording of “make” good relations is questionable.

Post if you want though...

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Well making lasting relationships has partly to do with acceptance of others. I find that sle can accept their kids for being different (example gay) because of the concept of the tribe.

Beta ST would probably beat the shit out of their kids if they were to come out as gay unless they were the more liberal kind.

I really like SLEs for the most part. However, there may be some things that do matter. They don't really see this however and that tendency to be frugal is detestable.

I cannot find a concrete reason to dislike them, as I do with ILEs or even some SEEs. Maybe for some who are too concerned about the needs of their tribes?

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Originally Posted by sbbds

This is really unrealistic. I would say something like, “The poor are systematically oppressed, but so am I.”


.

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Actually the dog joke is something ILEs or Lies are more likely to do imho

SLEs are a bit more sensitive about social clues

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Originally Posted by sbbds

I get that this is trying to be positive about your conflictor but idk.

Yes we can make positive lasting relations, if our Fe HA is good enough. But we don’t ever have good control over this per se, except post facto. I can’t really just fabricate good relations like strong ethical types can. If I have a good relationship with someone, it’s that I happen to have been put into a situation close together with them, we inherently get along and I (or they) haven’t messed it up yet.

I cannot speak for all SLEs, I guess I’m a more sensitive “harmonizing” type SLE, but when I get close to someone and let them in, it really takes a lot and I let them deep in to register them as part of my “clan” or whatever (really I think this stereotype is stupidly overblown just because of the image of team sports, and we’re mostly lone wolf independent type people at the core). I think about how to give people I care about objective positive benefit in their life, so that probably helps with keeping good relations.

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I actually feel exactly the same way about lasting relations. This is probably a result of both LIE’s and SLE’s having 1D Fi and 2D Fe.

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Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus

Beta ST would probably beat the shit out of their kids if they were to come out as gay unless they were the more liberal kind.

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False.

I would have thrown you into the forest, to be eaten by a gay bear.

Or straight into the dumpster right outside of the hospital room LOL. Right when I catch a glimpse of that rainbow umbilical cord.

Jk I’m extremely liberal and have volunteered at LGBT parades.

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Originally Posted by Beautiful sky

Well making lasting relationships has partly to do with acceptance of others. I find that sle can accept their kids for being different (example gay) because of the concept of the tribe.

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Why must it be called “tribe” just because of Fe Se? Why can’t it just be the regular concept of family?

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Originally Posted by sbbds

Jk I’m extremely liberal and have volunteered at LGBT parades.

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus

Beta ST would probably beat the shit out of their kids if they were to come out as gay unless they were the more liberal kind.

I really like SLEs for the most part. However, there may be some things that do matter. They don't really see this however and that tendency to be frugal is detestable.

I cannot find a concrete reason to dislike them, as I do with ILEs or even some SEEs. Maybe for some who are too concerned about the needs of their tribes?

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I don't type by stereotypes. Notice I said "can be" instead of "are" I use "are" when I see a huge tendency...

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Originally Posted by sbbds

Why must it be called “tribe” just because of Fe Se? Why can’t it just be the regular concept of family?

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because tribes have certain camaraderie to them right? Certainly :Ni: to them

On the explanation of the "tribe" because they are on other teams rather than just family, like sport team and office team.

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Originally Posted by sbbds

Sometimes you remind me of this slender old LIE-looking lady I saw at my dentist’s office once. She chastised me for talking to my mom in a way she didn’t approve of, and I told her she should sit down so the dust wouldn’t fall out of her vagina.

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Fi failure.

"Let's discuss SLEs"
Let's not. We wouldn't want their Se to get pumped up even further now, would we? :eyes:
Naturally, when they're discussed, only good things are left to be said about them.

Seriously now, most of them are great. They are less intimidating than you'd think, and more afraid of you than you are of them! Feed them plenty, take them on daily walks and keep them entertained through Fe-style fuckassery, and they'll curl up on your lap (menacingly).

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I don't type by stereotypes. Notice I said "can be" instead of "are" I use "are" when I see a huge tendency...

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That was me being funny, guess only sbbds got it though. Not sure what do you mean by that, observations aren't stereotypical.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Fi failure.

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It’s mutual 1D Fi winning / Charlie Sheen

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Originally Posted by Plumes

"Let's discuss SLEs"
Let's not. We wouldn't want their Se to get pumped up even further now, would we? :eyes:
Naturally, when they're discussed, only good things are left to be said about them.

Seriously now, most of them are great. They are less intimidating than you'd think, and more afraid of you than you are of them! Feed them plenty, take them on daily walks and keep them entertained through Fe-style fuckassery, and they'll curl up on your lap (menacingly).

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Like a pet insect. Run your fingers through my silky cockroach hairs.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Fi failure.

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That story made me LOL. More like Delta Fi failure.

And the LIE seems stuck up. Maybe it's just a cultural thing but for a supposed Fi ego, I don't really have concerns over how people express themselves like that, unless it's out of place and tacky

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Originally Posted by sbbds

Like a pet insect. Run your fingers through my silky cockroach hairs.

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More like this :lol:

Attachment 14624

Haha

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Originally Posted by Plumes

"Let's discuss SLEs"
Let's not. We wouldn't want their Se to get pumped up even further now, would we? :eyes:
Naturally, when they're discussed, only good things are left to be said about them.

Seriously now, most of them are great. They are less intimidating than you'd think, and more afraid of you than you are of them! Feed them plenty, take them on daily walks and keep them entertained through Fe-style fuckassery, and they'll curl up on your lap (menacingly).

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Also I’m not trying to be positive . I’m a positivist type. I see the goodness first

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Originally Posted by FDG

Now, able to make lasting relationships, mostly only with people from their 'clan'...

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& quick to kick nonquadra members out, in my real life experience. And I didn't even mention Trump. Ok. Now I did.

I had an ESTp-Se friend for much of high school and college. He currently attends college on a football scholarship and is employed as a security officer.

He had his own 'clan', which often included members of the high school football and basketball team. He greatly enjoyed the camaraderie and physical contact aspects of the sport environment.

He was quite egotistical, stubborn, and 'loud', occasionally appearing arrogant. He was also much into fashion, specifically accessories.

He was not 'bossy' or domineering. Traits that I find more common in ESFps and ISTjs.

He did not date/sleep around. He dated two girls, whom I thought both were ESFps. Eventually, he tried to secretly hit on my ISFj-Se girlfriend, which led to the dissolution of our friendship.

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Originally Posted by FDG

Now, able to make lasting relationships, mostly only with people from their 'clan'...

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In other cases what happens in your experience?

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Originally Posted by Myst

In other cases what happens in your experience?

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In my experience - they'll be fine with you one-on-one but may try to socially bully you when in presence of their "true" friends or such.

Not that I'm the master at choosing who to hang out with, mind you.

Your normal everyday SLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tajPROM8wk

Ime, SLEs are sweet, almost saccharine. They're like polar bears that give hugs or something. They have a sense of duty towards the people they love. I kind of tend to see them as providers, in the same vein as LSIs... A whole lot of bravado, you have to realize the whole of the beta quadra is somewhat theatrical and not just EIEs. They like dramatic displays of emotion and like being in an emotionally charged environment.

Betas in general tend to have a "fuck the system" mentality and you see this in SLEs most overtly. I don't necessarily mean rioting in the street or something, more like doing things in an unconventional way. Alphas are like that too, but Betas tend to be more "in your face" about it.

The ones I know are real gentlemen/ladies and they are surprisingly submissive as well. My brother is an SLE and he never says "no" to any of my whims. I've seen him accompany me and look bored to death, but he never says no.

Respect is also a big deal, give and take respect, but you also need to be able to command respect. This is more for LSIs, I think (not sure). They're aware of power dynamics and so can easily become a protector of the weak. Aristocratic? Yes. Snobbish? No. As for the whole `clan` thing... it's probably true? It's more like wanting to be in a place where I get to make all the rules, where everyone knows their place, where I'm respected and my worth is acknowledged, etc. Betas tend to like hierarchical systems. I think Deltas are also very clan-ish in that sense? (not sure)

What do you think @sbbds accurate or am I mistaken?

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

Ime, SLEs are sweet, almost saccharine. They're like polar bears that give hugs or something. They have a sense of duty towards the people they love. I kind of tend to see them as providers, in the same vein as LSIs... A whole lot of bravado, you have to realize the whole of the beta quadra is somewhat theatrical and not just EIEs. They like dramatic displays of emotion and like being in an emotionally charged environment.

Betas in general tend to have a "fuck the system" mentality and you see this in SLEs most overtly. I don't necessarily mean rioting in the street or something, more like doing things in an unconventional way. Alphas are like that too, but Betas tend to be more "in your face" about it.

The ones I know are real gentlemen/ladies and they are surprisingly submissive as well. My brother is an SLE and he never says "no" to any of my whims. I've seen him accompany me and look bored to death, but he never says no.

Respect is also a big deal, give and take respect, but you also need to be able to command respect. This is more for LSIs, I think (not sure). They're aware of power dynamics and so can easily become a protector of the weak. Aristocratic? Yes. Snobbish? No. As for the whole `clan` thing... it's probably true? It's more like wanting to be in a place where I get to make all the rules, where everyone knows their place, where I'm respected and my worth is acknowledged, etc. Betas tend to like hierarchical systems. I think Deltas are also very clan-ish in that sense? (not sure)

What do you think @sbbds accurate or am I mistaken?

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Very accurate. People have compared me to a (polar) bear many times in IRL, have called me soft, soft-hearted, etc. Thanks very much for this! Lol

Here’s the explanation: If you’re stronger than almost everyone else, and you don’t go out of your way to make yourself look weak and to help others, you’re basically just a douche.

That’s the average SLE psyche in a nutshell IMO.

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Originally Posted by sbbds

Very accurate. People have compared me to a (polar) bear many times in IRL, have called me soft, soft-hearted, etc. Thanks very much for this! Lol

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Your welcome^^

I think SLE is one of the most misconstrued types out there... they're painted as brutes, like Gaston from 'The Beauty and The Beast.' I think PoLR Fi hits SLE harder than ILEs. Because Betas want to command respect, not being respected would be a huge deal. SLE tend to minimize Fi. A good example of PoLR Fi in a Bad SLE is like Charlie Sheen in 'Two and A Half Men.' There's a scene where his therapist asks him to describe his feelings for his mother, his brother and his nephew. His response is "Pissed off, pissed off and sad." Throughout the show it is implied that his mother has greatly damaged him to a point where he can't have normal relations with a woman.

But that's also the thing... because of PoLR Fi, he doesn't care to admit that he does have damaged relationships with people. I think this is why IxE come off as kind of socially awkward. Because they don't care to check up on this. With SLE's forceful Se approach, it comes off as more heavy handed. This doesn't mean immorality... Charlie is portrayed as being downright naive sometimes, and it's shown there are worse people in the world than him. He has a desire to do good as well, even through his issues. He's not a good representative of the type for sure, but he does show the vulnerable side of SLE...

I had someone tell me they wanted to be SLE because SLE are badass... they wouldn't know the mountain of duty and responsibility that would come from that. I like to think the IEIs run the Beta quadra secretly... SLE's dual is the IEI, not a very practical or driven type. So you would imagine they would have the skills to compensate for that.

The ethical core of the Beta quadra is the IEI. The SLE has the will power and strength to shape the world in the image of the IEIs vision. It is a very 'world builder' kind of type... like Atlas supporting the weight of the world on his shoulders. I am biased lol and I may be romanticizing it xD

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

Your welcome^^

I think SLE is one of the most misconstrued types out there... they're painted as brutes, like Gaston from 'The Beauty and The Beast.' I think PoLR Fi hits SLE harder than ILEs. Because Betas want to command respect, not being respected would be a huge deal. SLE tend to minimize Fi. A good example of PoLR Fi in a Bad SLE is like Charlie Sheen in 'Two and A Half Men.' There's a scene where his therapist asks him to describe his feelings for his mother, his brother and his nephew. His response is "Pissed off, pissed off and sad." Throughout the show it is implied that his mother has greatly damaged him to a point where he can't have normal relations with a woman.

But that's also the thing... because of PoLR Fi, he doesn't care to admit that he does have damaged relationships with people. I think this is why IxE come off as kind of socially awkward. Because they don't care to check up on this. With SLE's forceful Se approach, it comes off as more heavy handed. This doesn't mean immorality... Charlie is portrayed as being downright naive sometimes, and it's shown there are worse people in the world than him. He has a desire to do good as well, even through his issues. He's not a good representative of the type for sure, but he does show the vulnerable side of SLE...

I had someone tell me they wanted to be SLE because SLE are badass... they wouldn't know the mountain of duty and responsibility that would come from that. I like to think the IEIs run the Beta quadra secretly... SLE's dual is the IEI, not a very practical or driven type. So you would imagine they would have the skills to compensate for that.

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I think Gaston is probably a messed up LSE. The Beast is closer for SLE (a misunderstood hairy beast).

Charlie Sheen is a typical manchild SLE. Male SLEs get hit hard by society like other logician males since usually they aren’t given enough positive incentive to express their emotions and to introspect about themselves. IIRC Charlie Sheen is guilty of sexual harassment or misbehaviour, which is immoral unfortunately. If you don’t learn to deal with people and emotions, something’s going to give eventually.

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Originally Posted by karas

Your normal everyday SLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tajPROM8wk

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Kinda sorta looks LSE ish

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

I had someone tell me they wanted to be SLE because SLE are badass... they wouldn't know the mountain of duty and responsibility that would come from that.

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Right. Every ounce of “power” in reality has to be balanced out with service to others for it to be maintained.

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

Ime, SLEs are sweet, almost saccharine. They're like polar bears that give hugs or something. They have a sense of duty towards the people they love. I kind of tend to see them as providers, in the same vein as LSIs... A whole lot of bravado, you have to realize the whole of the beta quadra is somewhat theatrical and not just EIEs. They like dramatic displays of emotion and like being in an emotionally charged environment.

Betas in general tend to have a "fuck the system" mentality and you see this in SLEs most overtly. I don't necessarily mean rioting in the street or something, more like doing things in an unconventional way. Alphas are like that too, but Betas tend to be more "in your face" about it.

The ones I know are real gentlemen/ladies and they are surprisingly submissive as well. My brother is an SLE and he never says "no" to any of my whims. I've seen him accompany me and look bored to death, but he never says no.

Respect is also a big deal, give and take respect, but you also need to be able to command respect. This is more for LSIs, I think (not sure). They're aware of power dynamics and so can easily become a protector of the weak. Aristocratic? Yes. Snobbish? No. As for the whole `clan` thing... it's probably true? It's more like wanting to be in a place where I get to make all the rules, where everyone knows their place, where I'm respected and my worth is acknowledged, etc. Betas tend to like hierarchical systems. I think Deltas are also very clan-ish in that sense? (not sure)

What do you think @sbbds accurate or am I mistaken?

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Yes that’s why they love Shakespeare. By the way I went to London with my SLE friend who put the Shakespeare theater on our agenda and every time she visits me in LA she wants to see a play by the Shakespeare company. Lol Shakespeare is extremely emotionally charged. As you can imagine very few Delta there.

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Originally Posted by Beautiful sky

Kinda sorta looks LSE ish

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https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3e&oe=5CC09C16

LSE :confused:
https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...e/DSC01883.jpg
https://www.killrbuckeye.com/

Definitely SLe

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Originally Posted by karas

LSE :confused:
https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...e/DSC01883.jpg
https://www.killrbuckeye.com/

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Beware of the hungry arctic everyday SLE's. Especially do not feed them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZH0T8v0eD0

What i truly admire and respect about a SLE i know is her ability to stand up and do what she thinks is the right thing, unwavering. Of course, i have been in many debates with her about what the right thing might BE, but it is something that i admire nonetheless. To protect the weak in that fashion is something i find very attractive.

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

Ime, SLEs are sweet, almost saccharine. They're like polar bears that give hugs or something. They have a sense of duty towards the people they love.

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When they are in a positive mood with their Fe HA then yes this is true. When they are not, the opposite is true. Level of health of course matters in this a lot like for any other type too.

I do think in general it would be good to add the conditions for when the statement is true instead of trying to generalise to the entire type as is. (Not trying to address you personally with this, this is more general.)

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Originally Posted by Beautiful sky

Yes that’s why they love Shakespeare. By the way I went to London with my SLE friend who put the Shakespeare theater on our agenda and every time she visits me in LA she wants to see a play by the Shakespeare company. Lol Shakespeare is extremely emotionally charged. As you can imagine very few Delta there.

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I love Shakespeare! The bard is one of my favorite poets! I have memorized lines from his plays. There's nothing I love more than intense, often times tragic emotions. Take a look at my siggy. The quotes are from Wuthering Heights, one of my favorite books. It's funny, because Charlotte Bronte (the author of Jane Eyre) and Emily Bronte (the author of Wuthering Heights) are Gamma and Beta respectively. Emily Bronte's book was published after her death - she died at a young age after writing one book - and Charlotte Bronte did the editing to make it more palatable lol. Charlotte B really disapproved of her sister's writing lol. Fe vs Fi xD

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Originally Posted by Myst

When they are in a positive mood with their Fe HA then yes this is true. When they are not, the opposite is true. Level of health of course matters in this a lot like for any other type too.

I do think in general it would be good to add the conditions for when the statement is true instead of trying to generalise to the entire type as is. (Not trying to address you personally with this, this is more general.)

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Oh, I thought I had made it clear I was talking about my personal experience with the type. Ofc, the good and the bad are both true, there are good and bad examples of every type. I will make it more clear in the future :)

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

I love Shakespeare! The bard is one of my favorite poets! I have memorized lines from his plays. There's nothing I love more than intense, often times tragic emotions. Take a look at my siggy. The quotes are from Wuthering Heights, one of my favorite books. It's funny, because Charlotte Bronte (the author of Jane Eyre) and Emily Bronte (the author of Wuthering Heights) are Gamma and Beta respectively. Emily Bronte's book was published after her death - she died at a young age after writing one book - and Charlotte Bronte did the editing to make it more palatable lol. Charlotte B really disapproved of her sister's writing lol. Fe vs Fi xD

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Oh I forget. The Delta were the actors. Among them was an ISTP and an ENFP. My SLE friend stood mesmerized and staring at the SLI. I think she fell in love with him but has no idea that he ignores Se lol

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Originally Posted by FDG

In my experience - they'll be fine with you one-on-one but may try to socially bully you when in presence of their "true" friends or such.

Not that I'm the master at choosing who to hang out with, mind you.

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I agree with this perspective. The ESTp that I knew well, would frequently show off and put on a facade when in public or with friends. (Se) However, in personal interaction, he was somewhat insecure and 'soft'.

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Originally Posted by para

What i truly admire and respect about a SLE i know is her ability to stand up and do what she thinks is the right thing, unwavering. Of course, i have been in many debates with her about what the right thing might BE, but it is something that i admire nonetheless. To protect the weak in that fashion is something i find very attractive.

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Yes, protecting the weak is the right use of strength.

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

Betas tend to like hierarchical systems.

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I think it's more accurate to say betas like to change and improve hierarchical systems. There is a huge misconception that betas like hierarchy for it's own sake. Mussolini for example actually held anarchist beliefs in his youth before turning to fascism. He was unhappy with the system and simply wanted it destroyed at first. As he became more educated he began to realize that hierarchy and people ruling over each is something that will exist no matter what, so instead he sought change the system to make aligned to the welfare and progress of the people and to remove all parasitic, pragmatic self-serving elements from both the state and nation as a whole (****** had these same views as well, hence their alliance).

People who say they like hierarchy in it's modern day capitalistic form are Te types, especially Gammas and LIEs in particular. Te and pragmatism are the biggest assets in climbing most of today's hierarchies. Betas like ****** and Mussolini instead sought to make hierarchy strictly centered around merit and to prevent backstabbers, self-servers and ruthless cutthroats from being able to rise in the hierarchy as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by Hard Headed

I had an ESTp-Se friend for much of high school and college. He currently attends college on a football scholarship and is employed as a security officer.

He had his own 'clan', which often included members of the high school football and basketball team. He greatly enjoyed the camaraderie and physical contact aspects of the sport environment.

He was quite egotistical, stubborn, and 'loud', occasionally appearing arrogant. He was also much into fashion, specifically accessories.

He was not 'bossy' or domineering. Traits that I find more common in ESFps and ISTjs.

He did not date/sleep around. He dated two girls, whom I thought both were ESFps. Eventually, he tried to secretly hit on my ISFj-Se girlfriend, which led to the dissolution of our friendship.

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Looks like he made you feel insecure imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus

Looks like he made you feel insecure imo

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How so?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hard Headed

How so?

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By being overly abrasive, domineering and expressive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus

By being overly abrasive, domineering and expressive.

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Quote:

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I had an ESTp-Se friend for much of high school and college. He currently attends college on a football scholarship and is employed as a security officer. Objective

He had his own 'clan', which often included members of the high school football and basketball team. He greatly enjoyed the camaraderie and physical contact aspects of the sport environment. Objective

He was quite egotistical, stubborn, and 'loud', occasionally appearing arrogant. Subjective- negative He was also much into fashion, specifically accessories. Objective

He was not 'bossy' or domineering. Traits that I find more common in ESFps and ISTjs. Subjective- positive

He did not date/sleep around. He dated two girls, whom I thought both were ESFps. Eventually, he tried to secretly hit on my ISFj-Se girlfriend, which led to the dissolution of our friendship. Objective

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I provide organized information of my personal experience with an individual that I identify as an ESTp which correlates to the conversation. I hope my experience may be useful. I do not care about your feelings.

Overly abrasive
I am not insulting the ESTp or others. I am listing basic facts about him, in addition on how he came across by me and his peers.
Example of overly abrasive: He was a person that spent the majority of his allowance on shoes, socks, headbands, and sport gear; that flunked high school and represented your stereotypical jock. Objective

Domineering
I do not see how I am establishing or provoking any power play.
Example of domineering: He resembled a little brother to me, correlating to benefactor and beneficiary. He frequently asked for my advice, money, and car rides. Objective

Expressive
To better and directly communicate my message.
I am not even sure if this is a negative in an online forum context...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muddy

People who say they like hierarchy in it's modern day capitalistic form are Te types, especially Gammas and LIEs in particular. Te and pragmatism are the biggest assets in climbing most of today's hierarchies. Betas like ****** and Mussolini instead sought to make hierarchy strictly centered around merit and to prevent backstabbers, self-servers and ruthless cutthroats from being able to rise in the hierarchy as much as possible.

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Straight out of the gate, love it and 99% agree. I'd only question if a de dicto and de re distinction is worth drawing here for Gamma. Hierarchy is concretely and demonstrably unavoidable and is not negative in abstract (only in instance). A Gamma age however is ostensibly and avowedly non-hierarchical with a lot of goofy rhetoric about boot straps, elbow grease, and meritocracy. So in a consciously, de dicto, stated explicit sense a Gamma era is not hierarchical in an overtly enforced sense while it very obviously in point of unavoidable fact produces an individualistic, de re, hierarchy of rootless robber barons based on capital accumulation with no sense of group membership or obligation.

Just felt the need to draw that out as a contrast to Delta, whose era builds an implicit, unfixed, shifting, imperial, unavowable but none the less zealously enforced hierarchy based on ostensible anti-hierarchy--which is the inverse of the beta that is overt and honest, laying out clearly what the score is, what your requirements are and what you can expect from the greater whole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hard Headed

I provide organized information of my personal experience with an individual that I identify as an ESTp which correlates to the conversation. I hope my experience may be useful. I do not care about your feelings.

Overly abrasive
I am not insulting the ESTp or others. I am listing basic facts about him, in addition on how he came across by me and his peers.
Example of overly abrasive: He was a person that spent the majority of his allowance on shoes, socks, headbands, and sport gear; that flunked high school and represented your stereotypical jock. Objective

Domineering
I do not see how I am establishing or provoking any power play.
Example of domineering: He resembled a little brother to me, correlating to benefactor and beneficiary. He frequently asked for my advice, money, and car rides. Objective

Expressive
To better and directly communicate my message.
I am not even sure if this is a negative in an online forum context...

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Lmao dude, are you okay? I also meant he was, not you. You only came as insecure to me.

Quote:

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I don't care about your feelings

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When did I even brought them up :lol:

The Chad ESTp vs the Virgin ENTj

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus

Looks like he made you feel insecure imo

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The funny thing is with some people you only have to imply they’re insecure to make them start feeling and acting insecure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beautiful sky

1. Able to make lasting relations

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not easy for P types

> 2. Protective. From an SLE friend "You can recognize an ESTP by his tribes. They have many groups loyal to them, like my crew for the last 12 years, my team in the office. Older ESTP’s, i.e. over 40 years old, also tend to have deeper meaningful relationships (Fe-Ni). We are protectors of the people in our tribe. The people under my wing have a lion at the gate.
I still feel responsible for people who worked in my team many years ago. If their current manager doesn’t treat them well, I will kick his ass. I see the same with two ESTP managers and I love to see how they operate!"

as E types they are open to people and as base Se tend to control what happens near in T-S ways
doubtfuly to say about more of specifical

> 4. Strive to provide the highest quality in goods and service.

depends
to provide the higher profit and do the work in time is offen the opposite task

> 5. Work at something for a very long time. Work in science diligently. Dedicate to something they take pleasure in for a long time Ni.

mb for something, but not common for P types

> 6. Can be extremely frugal living on a skimpy means.

more they tend to pose and to get image things, to show the status and high income

> 7. Humor, funny, even in subtle ways.

doubtful compared to F types

> 8. Sympathetic

it's Fi. so not about T types and especially Ti ones

> 9. Want to be LOVED so they are among the most sympathetic types.

more want to get excitements and external respect. it's Fe valued type!

> 10. Strong...consistently physically train at something

the minority does sport training

> 11. Can make harsh or rude jokes that may offend sensitive Fi types

rude jokes may offent anyone

you like SLEs (as should)
and do not like type's theory as said strange in some places

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus

Lmao dude, are you okay? I also meant he was, not you. You only came as insecure to me.

When did I even brought them up :lol:

The Chad ESTp vs the Virgin ENTj

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How about you stop projecting your own issues onto others. As the first step for you to make.

And then for the second step, learn to read.

For the third step, go back to the original post by @Hard Headed and see how your responses to it were really off.

Hint: he called the SLE egotistical yet not domineering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muddy

I think it's more accurate to say betas like to change and improve hierarchical systems. There is a huge misconception that betas like hierarchy for it's own sake. Mussolini for example actually held anarchist beliefs in his youth before turning to fascism. He was unhappy with the system and simply wanted it destroyed at first. As he became more educated he began to realize that hierarchy and people ruling over each is something that will exist no matter what, so instead he sought change the system to make aligned to the welfare and progress of the people and to remove all parasitic, pragmatic self-serving elements from both the state and nation as a whole (****** had these same views as well, hence their alliance).

People who say they like hierarchy in it's modern day capitalistic form are Te types, especially Gammas and LIEs in particular. Te and pragmatism are the biggest assets in climbing most of today's hierarchies. Betas like ****** and Mussolini instead sought to make hierarchy strictly centered around merit and to prevent backstabbers, self-servers and ruthless cutthroats from being able to rise in the hierarchy as much as possible.

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I think I mentioned it in my other posts, betas definitely embody the spirit of rebellion. I think heirarchy is more a beta ST thing than it is for Beta NFs. One of the reasons why LSI is EIEs dual is because of how good LSI is at creating systems. Same goes for SLE, but SLEs are a lot more expensive, I think. EIE is a very scattered type. I do appreciate knowing my place, and others knowing their place. I'm not quite sure what you mean by capitalistic heirarchies... I was more talking about social/societal and even in relation to other people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sol

not easy for P types

> 2. Protective. From an SLE friend "You can recognize an ESTP by his tribes. They have many groups loyal to them, like my crew for the last 12 years, my team in the office. Older ESTP’s, i.e. over 40 years old, also tend to have deeper meaningful relationships (Fe-Ni). We are protectors of the people in our tribe. The people under my wing have a lion at the gate.
I still feel responsible for people who worked in my team many years ago. If their current manager doesn’t treat them well, I will kick his ass. I see the same with two ESTP managers and I love to see how they operate!"

as E types they are open to people and as base Se tend to control what happens near in T-S ways
doubtfuly to say about more of specifical

> 4. Strive to provide the highest quality in goods and service.

depends
to provide the higher profit and do the work in time is offen the opposite task

> 5. Work at something for a very long time. Work in science diligently. Dedicate to something they take pleasure in for a long time Ni.

mb for something, but not common for P types

> 6. Can be extremely frugal living on a skimpy means.

more they tend to pose and to get image things, to show the status and high income

> 7. Humor, funny, even in subtle ways.

doubtful compared to F types

> 8. Sympathetic

it's Fi. so not about T types and especially Ti ones

> 9. Want to be LOVED so they are among the most sympathetic types.

more want to get excitements and external respect. it's Fe valued type!

> 10. Strong...consistently physically train at something

the minority does sport training

> 11. Can make harsh or rude jokes that may offend sensitive Fi types

rude jokes may offent anyone

you like SLEs (as should)
and do not like type's theory as said strange in some places

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I like most people sol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myst

How about you stop projecting your own issues onto others. As the first step for you to make.

And then for the second step, learn to read.

For the third step, go back to the original post by @Hard Headed and see how your responses to it were really off.

Hint: he called the SLE egotistical yet not domineering.

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I wasn't projecting my own issues, he just seemed to be insecure and I mentioned the reasons why. I rarely have had any problems with SLEs so that doesn't really work.

Hey @Myst, don't worry about it- just ignore them.

I am Kanren; you helped me with my member's questionnaire a few years ago. Hope you are doing well, it is nice seeing you.

They are aggressive and self confident. The males usually get in trouble with the law. They like to test boundaries/limits, and invoke others with feeling. But they also have a sweet playful/manipulative "innocent" side that IEIs tend to love and deltas tend to loathe. Not valuing Te, they tend to like more informal power structures where they won because they were more rawly powerful rather than through faggy and weak overly PC democratic institutions.

They indirectly inspire their duals to be more confident/outgoing because they are this way, it's often over-the-top confidence that the "victim" in the relationship has no choice but to be more easier on themselves, and less victim-y as well. That kinda explains the ease of communication between the dual pairs. But it has to be complementary, many times the IEI is too shy/too SEI-like to even be around the SLE, and the SLE might find the IEI too weak, out-of-reach, and/or pathetic. But "ideally" if other factors are present, this is how it works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss

Straight out of the gate, love it and 99% agree. I'd only question if a de dicto and de re distinction is worth drawing here for Gamma. Hierarchy is concretely and demonstrably unavoidable and is not negative in abstract (only in instance). A Gamma age however is ostensibly and avowedly non-hierarchical with a lot of goofy rhetoric about boot straps, elbow grease, and meritocracy. So in a consciously, de dicto, stated explicit sense a Gamma era is not hierarchical in an overtly enforced sense while it very obviously in point of unavoidable fact produces an individualistic, de re, hierarchy of rootless robber barons based on capital accumulation with no sense of group membership or obligation.

Just felt the need to draw that out as a contrast to Delta, whose era builds an implicit, unfixed, shifting, imperial, unavowable but none the less zealously enforced hierarchy based on ostensible anti-hierarchy--which is the inverse of the beta that is overt and honest, laying out clearly what the score is, what your requirements are and what you can expect from the greater whole.

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I agree here. However, I think the hiearchy is way more implicit--->'this' guys, or girls opinions about who what how and should, are what we all need to follow.

For example, I'm thinking Whoppi Goldberg and the 15 years of harping on the View.

Edit: another example is the straight forward moralizing of the Hodge Twins.

Its more of a : you can follow my hierarchal opinion here, but why wouldn't you, are you crazy, or something?

On the dark side of the spectrum its bullying, with, or without teeth. Depends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pano Lou

I think I mentioned it in my other posts, betas definitely embody the spirit of rebellion. I think heirarchy is more a beta ST thing than it is for Beta NFs. One of the reasons why LSI is EIEs dual is because of how good LSI is at creating systems. Same goes for SLE, but SLEs are a lot more expensive, I think. EIE is a very scattered type. I do appreciate knowing my place, and others knowing their place. I'm not quite sure what you mean by capitalistic heirarchies... I was more talking about social/societal and even in relation to other people.

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Scattered like?

PS: I'll respond to your other stuff later, I'll have a bit more time soon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus

I wasn't projecting my own issues, he just seemed to be insecure and I mentioned the reasons why. I rarely have had any problems with SLEs so that doesn't really work.

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Meant general issues more than related to experiences with SLE. Like why get at someone else like that without them doing anything if it didn't trigger something for yourself. But I'm not going to beat at this further, I already made my points before.

PS: And I don't know you otherwise, so this isn't personal like that. If you want to actually go on with some answer tho', PM me, instead of off topic, this is already enough off topic lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hard Headed

Hey @Myst, don't worry about it- just ignore them.

I am Kanren; you helped me with my member's questionnaire a few years ago. Hope you are doing well, it is nice seeing you.

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Hey, yeah, I remember you. :) Yeah, I hope the same for you. :)