IEE-Fi versus EII-Ne

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Originally Posted by Pookie

Define C4.

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Conscious LV4/D4 i.e. Leading Function

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Originally Posted by domr

C4/C2/U4/U2 are even. Leading/Role/Demonstrative/Mobilizing

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Example: SE-

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    Subjective | Objective
            S-4 | E-3 [Ego]
Conscious  I-2 | L-1 [Super-Ego]
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Unconscious E-4 | E-3 [Id]
            L-2 | I-1 [Super Id]

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This is the psyche of the SE- type. If you want to create a subtype then you need to modify this diagram. That's the axiomatic way to create subtypes. With this system the only way to do that would be the change the function strength.

I'm impressed anyone got pookie to talk so much :content:

more DarkAngelFireWolf69 heresy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrBJ...=youtu.be&t=41

@Bertrand

DarkAngelFireWolf69 is totally clueless to intuitive ethics @1:40, also called maturity. People learn and grow and they develop other aspects to themselves besides the leading function. Does he not understand Model A has 8 functions and not 1?

Ambivert does not exist because a person would be indifferent between functions. It would freeze them. The entire reason we have function strengths is to get around this indifference problem.

I'm going to borrow "depth of interactions" because that's a good point

so I actually think there are more base similarities between IEE-Fi + EII-Fi and IEE-Ne + EII-Ne

tl;dr IEE-Fi is what would happen if you fed EII-Fi a bunch of MDMA, whereas EII-Ne is what would happen if you fed IEE-Ne a bunch of Xanax

IEE-Fi seeks depth in their interactions, but they do so while "planting seeds" across a wide spectrum (work, school, extracurriculars) in stereotypical Ep fashion, but they're still not Dostoevsky, so it doesn't magically become a matter of deepening emotional bonds between other people, it's just making friends on an individual basis across a wide spectrum, and they do so in almost a Dostoevsky way - think Huxley motivation (Ne) Dostoevsky method (Fi)

EII-Ne seeks depth in their interactions, and they might collect their friends from various places (work, school, extracurriculars), but eventually they'll want to bring those friends into a single place, so there's an attachment at play (and by that I mean static bonds, Fi) and their means of communication is less about kindness, even if it's still there, it's more about connecting through common interests - think Dostoevsky motivation (Fi) Huxley method (Ne)

I don't usually like using forumites as examples, but in this case, I remember I recognized more immediate similarities between Raver and Subteigh, than I did between Subteigh and myshkin, but after I spent more time on the forum, I began to see growing similarities between Subteigh and myshkin

I've read 2 EII-Ne subtype descriptions, one by DarkAngelFireWolf69 and the other one i can't recall who it was written by (Meged? rings a bell? ). Anyway, the differences weren't very clear to me. Are there any other subtype descriptions i am missing out on? Thanks

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Originally Posted by Delilah

I've read 2 EII-Ne subtype descriptions, one by DarkAngelFireWolf69 and the other one i can't recall who it was written by (Meged? rings a bell? ). Anyway, the differences weren't very clear to me. Are there any other subtype descriptions i am missing out on? Thanks

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Read the Fi-EII and Fi-IEE descriptions and see if any of them fit you:

http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/t...INFj/subtypes/
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/t...ENFp/subtypes/

Both are at the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Raver

Read the Fi-EII and Fi-IEE descriptions and see if any of them fit you:

http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/t...INFj/subtypes/
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/t...ENFp/subtypes/

Both are at the bottom.

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Hey Raver,
thanks for the links. I'll read them. However, I'm very intrigued by the EII-Ne subtype. Both, for seeing if it fits and for understanding that subtype better. Are there any other ones out there? I kinda vaguely recall having read something by Beskova (i think that was their name....?) a few years back and can't seem to locate it now. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by consentingadult

What problem are you trying to solve here? Are you perhaps trying to find out whether you are IEE or EII yourself?

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@consentingadult: only partially my interest in this started as i was wavering between 3 Fi-ego types, and then continued to read as it was still intriguing and i made the thread after i realized that even having read the subtype articles i was having difficulties differentiating between EII -NE and IEE for instance. Thanks for your comment.

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Originally Posted by Delilah

I see your point. I was wondering though for instance why IEE-Fi can't be more similar to ESI rather than SEE? If all what you're saying applies, then if you take into account the thinking style "hologrpahic" too, and, assuming that that is preserved as well, than wouldn't IEE-Fi be more similar to ESI? Just wondering

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I'm Fi-IEE - sometimes I relate a lot to ESIs more than SEEs despite being us both being EPs. I read about a Fi-SEE who felt the same about EIIs.

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Originally Posted by inabox

I'm Fi-IEE - sometimes I relate a lot to ESIs more than SEEs despite being us both being EPs. I read about a Fi-SEE who felt the same about EIIs.

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Yeah. IEE's and ESI might both perceive offensive humor as very bad.. They are both "feel good" people. Like everyone should be OK with it. SEE's usually have much less problem with division and I might say that this even applies to EII's in some limits and these are not really so much "feel good" people.

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Originally Posted by inabox

I'm Fi-IEE - sometimes I relate a lot to ESIs more than SEEs despite being us both being EPs. I read about a Fi-SEE who felt the same about EIIs.

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I think it’s because IEE and ESI both share -Fi and SEE and EII both share +Fi. Being ethical types, their style of ethics is probably the most important thing that bridges their relationships with people - including the two Ep types who aren’t ethical base. IEE and ESI are both the type of people you’d expect at a protest, for example, because of the nature of -Fi. SEE and EII are more harmonic, I think, even if SEE is more bold than IEE (they still try to get along generally and aren’t as hostile as -Fi; I’ve noticed my IEE friend has a quick temper and there’s a line you can’t cross with her otherwise she’s ruthless and ESIs are famously the same way).

Anyways, I think the difference between IEE and EII is pretty big regardless of subtype. IEE is a lot more risqué and morally ambiguous; not that they don’t have morals but you’ll notice they do and justify things that an EII never would. Basically, differences in temperament which can be stark.

I’m quite, calm, not a lot of energy and I don’t show much excitement and enthrallment

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Originally Posted by flames

Anyways, I think the difference between IEE and EII is pretty big regardless of subtype. IEE is a lot more risqué and morally ambiguous; not that they don’t have morals but you’ll notice they do and justify things that an EII never would. Basically, differences in temperament which can be stark.

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I think Fi-subtype IEE (and Fi-SEEs I suppose) are less inclined to be morally ambiguous. At least I perceive that difference between myself and Ne-IEEs (with one of them I was like, the f-k? But then all types can have uhh moral ickiness). But still, immnot morally unambiguous as my Ne-EII sister whom I look up to.

This is what have I noticed about the differences between the IEEs I know (myself included) and the EIIs. I'm considering EII-NE and IEE-FI, but many of the things I will say also apply to the other subtypes.

I believe there are frequent mistakes in considering Fi in these two types, which appears to everyone as a system of rigid values ​​for the EII and adaptable for the IEE. But this is not the case, and it is the reason why many ENFps tend to be typed as INFj. Speaking about these two subtypes will help me better explain what I mean.


Communication:
- An IEE in general has a very straightforward way of speaking or writing. He tend to send a lot of separate messages, as if he were launching into the discussion brainstormed informations that in their mind are perfectly connected as a whole, but which on paper are much more difficult to understand for those who read due to the lack of a structure of the argument (Ti PolR). However, thanks to their high knowledge in what interests them, they are able to construct excellent metaphors or using specific terms that mitigate the defects caused by the lack of shape, so they still manage to communicate their message.
The Fi subtype understands the importance of its thought structure, and over time develops a high interest in improving its exposure.
They are better at speaking out, making far fewer mistakes than when they chat on socials. They're better "on the spot".

- An EII-Ne on the other hand in their messages prefers a more concise type of expression. Often in their discussions they write a single message explaining their point of view, trying to avoid brainstorming (fearing to say something wrong and make people misunderstand them). PolR Se, so they try to they try to avoid arguing, and always answer quietly enough even in quarrels. They initially lack adequate knowledge but their argument have a better structure, unlike the IEE which immediately have a high abstract power, but which lack shape (which improves with time). They need more time to be able to present a dialogue clearly in a real life speech. This is why they are very fond of writing, which gives them time to organize their thoughts.


How they act and what they like:
- Iee prefer to produce or consume works that show (such as manga and comics, or movies) rather than novels (books), perceiving writing as limiting (but they still could be interested in reading and writing, just less than EII-Ne).
They are more impulsive. They are not afraid to say what they think clearly if they know they are right and have little fear of the consequences. For this reason they can easily antagonize people. They treat others well and with an apparent great interest, but could feel a certain detachment from others at the same time. It's not they are fake, but they always want to happear optimistic. They hardly idealize someone for too long.

The IEE-Fi subtype places a greater value on self-improvement (which pursues abstract paths). He has less confidence in his blind feelings and for this reason he can be at times more rigid in his emotions than the EII (more willing to sacrifice himself for his loved one and to put dignity in the background).

For the IEE-Fi, his values appear something to be reached in a perfect state, appearing almost outside of themself, not perfectly internalized, lacking confidence in them. Values ​​are too important to be bent in the present moment, this is because they are very tied to the vision they have of themselves. An EII is very confident about his choices and because of this, even by behaving differently from how he preaches, he is still sure that he is doing the right thing. He infacts bends his logic (Role Ti) to his feeling, "rationalizing" his choices (and it can appear very contradictory on the outside). The IEE has a hard time doing so: Ti PolR makes him hard to rationalize for himself something. For this reason he needs external confirmation more, because he is unsure.
This is important because I consider a bias that EII have true strong values ​​and the IEE care less about them. EIIs have barriers that appear inexpugnable, but in life they very often do the same things they criticize of others because "in my case it is right for reasons X, Y, Z" (Ti role).IEEs have fewer initial barriers but lie less to themselves because they just can't create personal rationalities, which would be fake. They have more clarity about how they act towards others and what they preach (for this reason they find excessive barriers to entry unnecessary).

- I disagree on defining the EII-Ne subtype as necessarily more extraverted. Indeed, often a greater focus on the abstract (EII-Ne) extinguishes some of the type's interest in the real world of action. EII-Fi in my experience are much more present. EII-Ne's energy flows more in abstraction (Ne), and therefore they are more extroverted only in the communication of ideas related to media and ideas in general. But in everyday life they are much more introverted. This is a clear difference which, in my opinion, divides EII-Ne from IEE-Fi a lot.


Personal identification:
- I have noticed that my EII-FI friends tend to be more rebellious, but often only in "words" . They maximize the safety of friends and loved ones by trying not to provoke anyone. But there is a desire for rebellion dampened by themselves. Every EII-FI I've met loves ESI characters, precisely because they are more "active" versions of themselves: Same dominant but different auxiliar function. It's a sort of ideal self.

- EII-Ne, on the other hand, prefer IEE (IEE-Fi more) characters (their mirror), because they tend more to the idealization of their auxiliar function rather than dominant, without never reaching confidence in it, exactly like IEE-Fi do with Fi! Ironic, but they all love spiderman (precisely the ENFp versions) and they identify a lot with them, while remaining very different in the everyday life. It's like "I feel to be like them" but they aren't actually chiller. Too many personal barriers to do it.

Fi-IEE = ENFps who are cynical/judgmental, take themselves seriously and act like karens sometimes. Polite enough but don't suffer fools and can be surprisingly conservative socially in some respects (even when they're left wing). Examples: Ana Kasparian from the Young Turks, Tucker Carlson, Ellen Degeneres, Cole Sprouse

Ne-EII = EIIs that are dynamic, bubbly and have a good sense of humor. Can be more down to earth, accepting and fun than some Fi-IEEs ironically. Examples: the twitch streamer xqc, Andrew Garfield, Robert Pattinson

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Originally Posted by Averroes

Fi-IEE = ENFps who are cynical/judgmental, take themselves seriously and act like karens sometimes. Polite enough but don't suffer fools and can be surprisingly conservative socially in some respects (even when they're left wing). Examples: Ana Kasparian from the Young Turks, Tucker Carlson, Ellen Degeneres, Cole Sprouse

Ne-EII = EIIs that are dynamic, bubbly and have a good sense of humor. Can be more down to earth, accepting and fun than some Fi-IEEs ironically. Examples: the twitch streamer xqc, Andrew Garfield, Robert Pattinson

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I didn't know what "karen" meant so I googled it and found a youtube video which illustrates this... behavior. The youtuber Girl "SSSinperWolf" has almost 40 million subscribers :eek: !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_dYdyT08K0

SEI - IEE ?? .

I don't know many Deltas. I wonder if I look too Se that I scare them off and they don't approach me or what it is. I really have relatively few friends in Serious quadra, the vast majority of people I consider close friends are Beta STs creative function subtypes and some ILE-Ti and a few gammas and Beta NFs here and there... most of my friends are female.

However, from what it seems to me like what I've observed afar of IEE-Fi and EII-Ne, is that IEE-Fi are more depressed and outwardly calm and they tend to fear things going wrong, yet they're likely to help someone even if they don't like them. EII-Ne seem a bit more willing to be aggressive in defense of their ideas actually. IEE-Fi are a bit faster in conversation and perception and they tend to hold onto relationships that aren't working well for them. IEE-Fi are physically stronger and more enduring than EII-Ne, and IEE-Fi are a bit more diplomatic and openly thin-skinned. IEE-Fi project more sex signals. They're more similar to an SEE-Fi (but IEE-Fi are still not really societal and into image creating and achievements quite as much as SEE-Fi or other Gamma SFs) while EII-Ne is more similar to an LII-Ne. IEE-Fi don't constantly look up factual info and observe like EII-Ne do. IEE-Fi is more gentle than EII-Ne.

I hope this helps.

All I know is that I cannot relate to the idea that an EII does not have a sense of humor and is super serious, maybe that is the EII-Fi, but it is not me. Ne is an addiction for me, but Fi is a condition. An addiction I am not attached to but I crave, but my condition is attached to me and I can't escape it. But with IEE's, even though we share the same sense of humor and I can follow their thoughts usually, it's the flexibility they have and their way of throwing ideas together that can sometimes seem to contradict that seems to be the first alarming difference I notice, or their willingness to express their Fi, while for me Fi is super private. I notice that on social media alot, I see IEEs posting posts like "Sitting in my car alone before going into the house is self-care." and other posts that are considered relatable, but more Ne posts are funny faces, puns and funny unconventional shocking random statements, while EII NE posts seems to take pride in their "unusual perspective" or "extraordinary" pun, or be really serious when taking about people being fake, them being asked to be fake or some emotional injustice.