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@squark
MBTI is the thing someone I used to talk to loves to talk about for hours, she believes herself to be IEI and I don't see it lol.
Socionics is the thing that made me think there might be something behind this mess and got me into reading about it.
MBTI functions are like Te are organized, stuck up harsh pieces of shet you cannot talk to about anything beside organization... but said gently with lots of ribbons...
I kind of like the aspects, but I don't know much of 'em yet.
@Myst
I try to have the lowest expectations possible... because people are disapointing... and they creep me out with all their feelings so I just say that it's okay, but I am lying...
All I do, write, draw, paint, photos, and stuff require a public and I don't expect much out of life because of it.
That I am an "artist" is the main reason I must be an ethical type usually.
I don't even "feel like an artist", it is imposed by others who think it's cute but not worth much...
So you don't really actively manage people's emotions in these situations?
Nope, I just ask a few questions because I don't understand much and it helps it seems... when I tell that to people they are surprised.
EDIT: "Or a partner who occasionally is too busy socializing and neglects to pay their phone bill?"
What in this seems so unmanageable to you?
It itches me to do it for them because I can't stand having such little details become problems... but then I would have a responsability I don't want of...
The amount of times I took too much work or "fixed" someone else's because my standards are higher than most... a lot of past disapointment here...
That also makes people come dump their work on me, or they become less confident so they don't bother trying anymore because some smart ass does everything better than them or some wants to show off what they can do and try to impress me... but fail... harshly... so either lie or ruin their mood and become a target... it becomes my fault... here comes bullying, alienation, rejection...and it is a nightmare...
So I try being a cute fluffy stupid incompetent little thing and I boil inside...
I need a therapy... or two... but they don't help...
It gets better with age they say. I hope.
Gloomy people are not liked because "I have enough of my own problems" but they dump them all on me and don't reciprocate when I need someone.
That was bottled shet exploding all over right there. I'm not pissed, I'm lonely.
I’ll have to take exception to the notion that laughing along with cruel shitheads to save one’s own social status is about Fe ego reasoning. I can speak at least for myself: I have gotten into trouble most of my life for absolutely refusing to go along with these things when I was expected to. Of course I can reason out that the nastiness might turn my way, but having seen what the people are worth as friends, I have no problem further reasoning out that they have no value to me. I have easily and with incredible pleasure let them know exactly what I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst
Makes sense - I was doubting that Fe egos are machiavellian like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by golden
This sounds difficult, and I do think it can get better with age.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernRose
Thanks, It might sound weird but in a way, it's a good thing as it makes one more humane, and well, a dark past brings compassion and that can be useful... misery interests others either for personal growth or curiosity. Even better with a happy ending.Quote:
Originally Posted by golden
@Myst
”I will say that I have never seen any ILI that had any clue about this sort of thing in terms of group behaviour BTW. They usually have about zero clue about how to fit into a group emotionally.”
Yeah lol exactly.
And yeah lol being effectively Machiavellian pretty much defines beta NFs IMO. Gamma NTs can try but they do it wrong, when it comes to people.
Ah yeah, the person I'm referring to who wanted to type as ILI... they gave me real good advice on people before actually. So IDK if gamma NT can do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by niffer
My question on the whole was whether beta NFs actually think to themselves in this way and not just act "manipulative" or actually manipulative (in bad cases) in some natural organic way without having to reason it out or whether they can/will even reason it out in this manner, that comes off a bit mechanistic to me.
Anyway as for OP, I'm undecided on the ILI vs IEI matter, I can see arguments for both. :o
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden
I just got to these.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst
IME beta NFs tend more towards good than evil in the vast majority of cases. The thing is, they still have the capability of weighing both sides in themselves and seeing their possibilities. They are fully aware of their own propensity for evil, so that when they do make a noble choice (such as with golden here) it’s like extra conscious and laudible. It makes them good social leaders for this reason. The point is being confident and aware about human relations, plus knowing both sides of the coin of good and evil well.
Yeah, I'm just wondering about the mechanistic-ish presentation/explanation but I guess IEI can be capable of that too if they get "Ti" enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by niffer
@squark
About information on the page you linked:
Fe : one is happy or sad
I don't even know what to think... really?
I can see myself only less in Fe after reading this.
Te : an evaluatory state of mind that directly assesses events and actions of other people from logical POV and openly voices those assessments, assessing and estimating productivity, efficiency, usefulness, rational sense of any given involvement venture or activity, steady and purposeful state of mind that leads to making rational actions despite the present sentiments.
Beside "voices those assessements", it seems on point.
Everyday, I sit down to go through social stuff of the day trying to make sense of them...
Is it possible to, I'll say abuse Te into being a (lackluster) social function?
I don’t know how people feel even after analyzing what they did/said, though sometimes I come at the conclusion they expected something or an other reaction...
I just wish people would say it, like "I want a hug" instead of stroking my elbow...
As I doubt everything to the point I annoy myself, am I delusionnal as so many people see Fe in me?
No. You know yourself pretty well, I reckon, and you’re the authority regarding your way of being.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernRose
And a lot of things you’ve said don’t fit with Fe.
Te isn't really about making sense of social stuff, but more like, of actions at the workplace.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernRose
I don't know what sort of stuff you feel inadequate at socially, but if it's stuff like ""I want a hug" instead of stroking my elbow" it could just be your low Sensing.
I think IEIs are much more likely to see themselves as potentially evil and play with the idea of it than other Ni or Fe ego types. Like since you have Ti hidden agenda you fantasize about yourself being a heartless serial killer in secret while innocently petting cats on the surface IRL I’m sure, don’t you @NorthernRose . I know y’all IEIs.
Deep down, you are all yandere.
I think that's right ILI often gives me the impression they're trying to placate me as though one were about to punch them as soon as you raise your voice or get even a little excited. SLI probably feels similar anxiety, albiet a somewhat more calibrated judge of actual threat, but is more of a stone wall in any case
Wow... that's a shocker.Quote:
Originally Posted by golden
Socializing feels like a job, and not one I like though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst
@squark
happy or sad is a little simplistic
Thank god lol.
I know I'm not on par with you logic and information wise, and I appriciate the time you took for this. I like having information delivered like this, to be lazy, sitting back and enjoying.
I don't have much to say as you put it well.
It's also new to me being told that I make sense.
I'll add to the mask thing you and @Bertrand talk about, though I don't give mean looks, I usually run.
At the same time I want to be in an harmonious environnement, I can't make one, I have no control over it and it's terrorizing when the atmosphere goes to anger.
It's like the air gets corrupted, it affects me in a way I don't even understand. I don't think about how people are feeling nor how I can fix it, all I see is that something is wrong and I want no part of it. Some sort of visceral "NO".
Passion and great joy makes me feel pity for the other... they sound in pain to me, even though I know they are fine and happy.
And these are also the things I think when I feel these things.
When I get angry, I want to get rid of myself.
When I cry, I just go "not again".
When I get too happy, it starts to vibrate in my gut and I want to die so it ends.
Happiness is the worst for me, as we can at least learn something from the two others.
I find it makes sense now, bye thread!