ESI - EII Dynamic (ISFj-INFj)

I was wondering if you have any personal experience with and observation on this (I've read the theory bits already and wanted to get more of a first hand feel for the thing); I'm talking about general relationality rather than romantic (any setting)

I have an ESI guy friend, and we get along quite well, it's just that there's a communication barrier and some awkwardness around each other; he had a crush on me once and I didn't know till it was over because he was so shy and I misinterpreted the gifts he gave me and things he did for me. Online, however, we'd talk on and on and our conversations were damn interesting.

Two of my relatives are ESI and EII living together. They get annoyed by each other a lot of times, ESI is always complaining about EII's passivity.

I don't know, not much experience... they seem to get along okay but there are moments of brutality between the two. From my Beta perspective it's usually the EII being more unfair than the gamma. EIIs are often downright sociopathic when they are upset about something or even when they are just teasing- the idea that people have them as harmless angels I don't get. When an ESI is upset about something it feels more justified from my vantage point. Benefactor bias.

Speaking of EIIs being innocent and perfect- did Maritsa leave us forever lol.

Fairly good with respect to casual relationships. They often seem to conflict on perception and importance, which could be a source of division in more interdependent relationships......

a.k.a. I/O

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Originally Posted by Rebelondeck

Fairly good with respect to casual relationships. They often seem to conflict on perception and importance, which could be a source of division in more interdependent relationships......

a.k.a. I/O

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like a work relation for instance, is that more interdependent?

Tons of Experience. Family.

Its truly a terrible dynamic.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

Tons of Experience. Family.

Its truly a terrible dynamic.

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Curious minds want to know more.

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Originally Posted by Delilah

like a work relation for instance, is that more interdependent?

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Yes, I've seen several work situations come unhinged - and socially, two sisters that stared daggers at one another......:content:

a.k.a. I/O

ESI is a representation of someone who is quicker to act than EII representation. EII seems to consider things that do not seem to hold as much weight in matter at hand. However, the weakness of ESI is that it should take a little more time to think before acting.

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Originally Posted by Nebula

ESI is a representation of someone who is quicker to act than EII representation. EII seems to consider things that do not seem to hold as much weight in matter at hand. However, the weakness of ESI is that it should take a little more time to think before acting.

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Yes, exactly, i was wondering what happens when these two come together from what members here have observed.

One pattern I have seen: the EII forgets something / is neglectful and the ESI gets mad and calls him out for being lazy/inattentive. He in turn tries to get the ESI to calm down and tries to explain what happened, but this is seen as an excuse (Ne vs Se).

Overall didn't seem to be a very comfortable relationship for close-range interaction (similar to my experiences with LSIs).

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Originally Posted by thehotelambush

One pattern I have seen: the EII forgets something / is neglectful and the ESI gets mad and calls him out for being lazy/inattentive.

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The abbility to forget or don't do a promised is same at both types.

> Overall didn't seem to be a very comfortable relationship for close-range interaction (similar to my experiences with LSIs)

This depends on what to do. Cooperation based on same functions is good. In general, it's neutral relations close to identity. You saw 2 people of random types and random context and then generalized them on everything about concrete types.

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Originally Posted by Sol

The abbility to forget or don't do a promised is same at both types.

> Overall didn't seem to be a very comfortable relationship for close-range interaction (similar to my experiences with LSIs)

This depends on what to do. Cooperation based on same functions is good. In general, it's neutral relations close to identity. You saw 2 people of random types and random context and then generalized them on everything about concrete types.

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How much have you observed the differences in valuing Se versus valuing Ne come into play? I'd guess it'd a be a big part of it since the creative is the function of personal breakthrough it seems

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Originally Posted by Delilah

I'd guess it'd a be a big part of it since the creative is the function of personal breakthrough it seems

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Bush said wrong for comparision of traits of two types (seems his "EII" was P type). EII don't break promises significantly more than ESI, and sure have not worse memory.

They may get opposing in how to do secondary things, what background support is needed to achieve the main aim, what ways to choose to achieve the aims.
For example. EII may offer new ways to follow, ESI will stay suspicious to them. ESI will try to force simple and proved decisions, EII will not like to be forced to follow banal ways.

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Originally Posted by Sol

The abbility to forget or don't do a promised is same at both types.......

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I agree. A lot of it seems to stem from the Ij's tendency to treat data as transient and disposable. And, in their search for the appropriate strategies or answers, they can subconsciously reinvent data that better suits their plans; here, I'm not referring to deliberate lying, of which all types are capable.
a.k.a. I/O

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Originally Posted by Sol

The abbility to forget or don't do a promised is same at both types.

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No. Weak Se.

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This depends on what to do. Cooperation based on same functions is good. In general, it's neutral relations close to identity. You saw 2 people of random types and random context and then generalized them on everything about concrete types.

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I've seen other comparative relations work better. But most people by definition have very little (if any) experience with any particular pairing.

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Originally Posted by thehotelambush

No. Weak Se.

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Optionality relates mostly to: P, non valued Fi.
To weak Se may relate in extreme conditions when a human needs high will to do something.
And mb in conditions of weak regions work, as people tire and bad there (like I may to come late anywhere not because of Se, but damn Ni management).

> I've seen other comparative relations work better.

Same IR should work similarly at all pairs of types.
The difference in efficiency of the cooperation may appear from: 1) situations, where roles of different valued functions arise and hence they get more of contradictions, 2) wrong types.
Such may be explained the differences in your observations without input of new entities.

> But most people by definition have very little (if any) experience with any particular pairing.

Most people type so awfully, that even having the experience they'd mostly did not understood what they had to make the correct conclusions. And some people have too much of the inclination to pass the borders of the classical theory, which claims these IR as neutral and the favorableness of IR is independent to the concrete pair of types.

A little update on my end: this relationship at work is not as good as in other settings, esp. if there is competition. Also ESI seems more prone and quicker to want to influence one's attitude towards other people in the work place. I'g guess mostly the EII would feel pressure from ESI so it is not a relationship of equals exactly.

I'm a guy EII and I dated a girl ESI, and there was that strong Fi/Fi connection that made me feel like we understood each other deeply. Well we understood how deeply we felt about each other but later found out a bunch of things we did not understand about each other and it was a bunch of little irritating things, foods we liked, didn't like, house etiquette like what should be kept clean or not. Looking back now the most difficult thing was, and I didn't realize at the time, was her punches to my weak Se. She would get a very sharp temper sometimes, like a quick burst of anger, and that sometimes felt like it caused me physical pain, but it also made me look weak to back away from confrontation like that, and she might of lost respect for me because of that, also she would be playfully forceful and I did not really find the fun in that, she would also make objective comments like if I could not pick her up she would say "You're weak." and that just kicked me right in the ego, and I had no real way to justify my emotional butthurt from those comments lol. Also I realized I was kind of sentimental and romantic and she was not lol, she felt weird with my more sentimental expressions of affection, and that just killed the moment for me. I felt like we really loved each other because of how intense the emotional connection felt, but there were issues beyond intense emotional connection. I also think we both secretly expected the other to be good at Te, she actually told me she needed someone who was more organized and could help her get her shit together, I felt sort of scared that I would disappoint her in that area. There were times where she would have a feeling and just go with it and I would tell her we have to think before we do things, she agreed with me but also felt like I needed to follow my feelings more sometimes.

Overall I felt like we were two wobbly children fumbling around in an adult world filled with responsibilities, we understood the "wobbliness" of the other and felt like we strongly related to each other in that.

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Originally Posted by Lord Pixel

I'm a guy EII and I dated a girl ESI, and there was that strong Fi/Fi connection that made me feel like we understood each other deeply. Well we understood how deeply we felt about each other but later found out a bunch of things we did not understand about each other and it was a bunch of little irritating things, foods we liked, didn't like, house etiquette like what should be kept clean or not. Looking back now the most difficult thing was, and I didn't realize at the time, was her punches to my weak Se. She would get a very sharp temper sometimes, like a quick burst of anger, and that sometimes felt like it caused me physical pain, but it also made me look weak to back away from confrontation like that, and she might of lost respect for me because of that, also she would be playfully forceful and I did not really find the fun in that, she would also make objective comments like if I could not pick her up she would say "You're weak." and that just kicked me right in the ego, and I had no real way to justify my emotional butthurt from those comments lol. Also I realized I was kind of sentimental and romantic and she was not lol, she felt weird with my more sentimental expressions of affection, and that just killed the moment for me. I felt like we really loved each other because of how intense the emotional connection felt, but there were issues beyond intense emotional connection. I also think we both secretly expected the other to be good at Te, she actually told me she needed someone who was more organized and could help her get her shit together, I felt sort of scared that I would disappoint her in that area. There were times where she would have a feeling and just go with it and I would tell her we have to think before we do things, she agreed with me but also felt like I needed to follow my feelings more sometimes.

Overall I felt like we were two wobbly children fumbling around in an adult world filled with responsibilities, we understood the "wobbliness" of the other and felt like we strongly related to each other in that.

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Very well described.

I am ESI in a ten-year (PLUS) relationship (and seven-year marriage) with an EII. The above is pretty accurate. Definitely accurate (especially about the ESI's aggressiveness and making the EII feel weak maybe unintentionally). I am guilty of telling my husband to man up in certain situation, which he HATES to hear.

A recurring theme is me trying to get my EII to do things he doesn't want to do. A nightmare. "Hey, let's drive to the coast for the day with the kids." He gets very nervous and overwhelmed. Wants like a week's notice or something. Thinks driving is boring (I think it's a fun road trip) and thinks just a day somewhere is pointless. He doesn't want to travel unless it's easy and everything's done for him.

Another theme is me trying to get him to do his fair share around the house. I do a ton and I don't want to rub it in his face but I do expect a similar amount of effort on his part.

Lots of frustration. Lots of communication misunderstandings. Lots of him wanting me to read his mind. Lots of mumbling stuff and then when I say, "What was that?" refusing to say what it was. Probably an insult, LOL.

The positives? When we didn't have kids we could get into all night conversations. Really felt fun and interesting. We enjoyed going out to see music and to play music together. We are both artists and admire each other's creativity. We both like the serenity of nature. Pretty good sexual chemistry although less so in the beginning stages of the relationship. I admire how hardworking he can be, and what a WONDERFUL father he is to our kids.

Any questions about relation dynamics and I will be glad to fill you in. I realize my response above is incomplete and disjointed.

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Originally Posted by MrsTortilla

Very well described.

I am ESI in a ten-year (PLUS) relationship (and seven-year marriage) with an EII. The above is pretty accurate. Definitely accurate (especially about the ESI's aggressiveness and making the EII feel weak maybe unintentionally). I am guilty of telling my husband to man up in certain situation, which he HATES to hear.

A recurring theme is me trying to get my EII to do things he doesn't want to do. A nightmare. "Hey, let's drive to the coast for the day with the kids." He gets very nervous and overwhelmed. Wants like a week's notice or something. Thinks driving is boring (I think it's a fun road trip) and thinks just a day somewhere is pointless. He doesn't want to travel unless it's easy and everything's done for him.

Another theme is me trying to get him to do his fair share around the house. I do a ton and I don't want to rub it in his face but I do expect a similar amount of effort on his part.

Lots of frustration. Lots of communication misunderstandings. Lots of him wanting me to read his mind. Lots of mumbling stuff and then when I say, "What was that?" refusing to say what it was. Probably an insult, LOL.

The positives? When we didn't have kids we could get into all night conversations. Really felt fun and interesting. We enjoyed going out to see music and to play music together. We are both artists and admire each other's creativity. We both like the serenity of nature. Pretty good sexual chemistry although less so in the beginning stages of the relationship. I admire how hardworking he can be, and what a WONDERFUL father he is to our kids.

Any questions about relation dynamics and I will be glad to fill you in. I realize my response above is incomplete and disjointed.

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Is he the one who drives?

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Originally Posted by MrsTortilla

Very well described.

I am ESI in a ten-year (PLUS) relationship (and seven-year marriage) with an EII. The above is pretty accurate. Definitely accurate (especially about the ESI's aggressiveness and making the EII feel weak maybe unintentionally). I am guilty of telling my husband to man up in certain situation, which he HATES to hear.

A recurring theme is me trying to get my EII to do things he doesn't want to do. A nightmare. "Hey, let's drive to the coast for the day with the kids." He gets very nervous and overwhelmed. Wants like a week's notice or something. Thinks driving is boring (I think it's a fun road trip) and thinks just a day somewhere is pointless. He doesn't want to travel unless it's easy and everything's done for him.

Another theme is me trying to get him to do his fair share around the house. I do a ton and I don't want to rub it in his face but I do expect a similar amount of effort on his part.

Lots of frustration. Lots of communication misunderstandings. Lots of him wanting me to read his mind. Lots of mumbling stuff and then when I say, "What was that?" refusing to say what it was. Probably an insult, LOL.

The positives? When we didn't have kids we could get into all night conversations. Really felt fun and interesting. We enjoyed going out to see music and to play music together. We are both artists and admire each other's creativity. We both like the serenity of nature. Pretty good sexual chemistry although less so in the beginning stages of the relationship. I admire how hardworking he can be, and what a WONDERFUL father he is to our kids.

Any questions about relation dynamics and I will be glad to fill you in. I realize my response above is incomplete and disjointed.

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Yup, everything you say to me makes sense. Especially the needing a weeks notice, because if you just pulled up on me randomly and said "Hey let's drive some where far." especially if I was looking forward to lazing around all day, I would say no before I even had time to really think about it lol, just because I am comfortable and do not feel like getting up to do something let driving far away. But with a weeks ahead of time notice I start to look forward to the drive and anticipate it. Also vulnerable Se is a major insecurity in masculinity for male EIIs so you telling them to man up is pouring gas on a fire he is lit his whole life, he probably secretly fears he's not a real man, so when you say that to him it's like "OUCH!" lol. Or that's my experience at least. But him expecting you to read his mind or see all these possibilities he sees probably doesn't feel good for you either.

But all this can be BS because apparently I'm IEI and not EII, idk anymore it's all confusing lol. All I know is that I'm INFP in MBTI and this was my relationship with ISFP in MBTI. Two MBTI Fi dominate types.

: ( sorry Lord, I didn't mean to make it bad for you and cause more uncertainty. I just meant to share my reasonings.. but tbh I'm not sure of the typing I gave you so much, because of a series of reasons that I didn't really consider and I'm gonna post on your type thread later. I haven't stopped thinking about it and yeah.. it's more complicated than what I first thought!

And yeah lol, I can see myself in your certainty about the MBTI INFP type while in here things are far more complicated... and yeah, I have a relationship with an MBTI ISFP who's quite obviously a socionic ESI, just to make things even easier... aha.

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Originally Posted by Lord Pixel

Yup, everything you say to me makes sense. Especially the needing a weeks notice, because if you just pulled up on me randomly and said "Hey let's drive some where far." especially if I was looking forward to lazing around all day, I would say no before I even had time to really think about it lol, just because I am comfortable and do not feel like getting up to do something let driving far away. But with a weeks ahead of time notice I start to look forward to the drive and anticipate it. Also vulnerable Se is a major insecurity in masculinity for male EIIs so you telling them to man up is pouring gas on a fire he is lit his whole life, he probably secretly fears he's not a real man, so when you say that to him it's like "OUCH!" lol. Or that's my experience at least. But him expecting you to read his mind or see all these possibilities he sees probably doesn't feel good for you either.

But all this can be BS because apparently I'm IEI and not EII, idk anymore it's all confusing lol. All I know is that I'm INFP in MBTI and this was my relationship with ISFP in MBTI. Two MBTI Fi dominate types.

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I think ESI gets anxious if they have to wait for a week.

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Due dates make him really nervous. This is why The Enterpriser, his dual, having bought tickets to a theater, will keep it secret until the last day.*

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That seems a fundamental difference between ESI and EII.

*http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p..._.28Dreiser.29

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Originally Posted by ooo

: ( sorry Lord, I didn't mean to make it bad for you and cause more uncertainty. I just meant to share my reasonings.. but tbh I'm not sure of the typing I gave you so much, because of a series of reasons that I didn't really consider and I'm gonna post on your type thread later. I haven't stopped thinking about it and yeah.. it's more complicated than what I first thought!

And yeah lol, I can see myself in your certainty about the MBTI INFP type while in here things are far more complicated... and yeah, I have a relationship with an MBTI ISFP who's quite obviously a socionic ESI, just to make things even easier... aha.

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Haha, you sure did confuse me, but it pushed me to make a video so hey that's good right? lol

I think my real struggle is not even if I am EII or IEI anymore but moreso what is IEI or EII, is it MBTI INFP or INFJ, but not sure it's the simple either. I'm starting to feel like on this site theire might be a few MBTI INFPs and INFJs that are typed as EII, and the mixture might be what's confusing for me. One EII might agree I am like them and am EII and another might think I am not like them and am IEI. So bleh, who knows, I'm gonna make a vid.

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Originally Posted by Avebury

I think ESI gets anxious if they have to wait for a week.



That seems a fundamental difference between ESI and EII.

*http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p..._.28Dreiser.29

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This makes sense. It sounds like an Si/Se difference. I'm concerned with my comfort and they are concerned with the present moment? Idk anymore but in MBTI it makes sense lol.

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Originally Posted by Lord Pixel

This makes sense. It sounds like an Si/Se difference. I'm concerned with my comfort and they are concerned with the present moment? Idk anymore but in MBTI it makes sense lol.

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I would say the problem is that they have weak :Ni: which they value but can't control properly.

This leads them to project into the future but also be too anxious about its unfolding. Like, what if this and that goes wrong? I've noticed :Ne: polr can't properly estimate the likelyhood of something happening or not, so if you can imagine it, it probably will happen. To the ESI at least.

That is, what I would speculate at least. Keep in mind the ESI psyche is a mystery to me. Maybe I am just theorycrafting out of my ass. Keep that in mind. :biggrin:

Looks like EII and LSI shares some similarities. Shows that result types tend to thrive for novelty out there whereas process types tend to be more homebodies (yes, Aushra described it that way).

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Originally Posted by Avebury

I would say the problem is that they have weak :Ni: which they value but con't control properly.

This leads them to project into the future but also be too anxious about its unfolding. Like, what if this and that goes wrong? I've noticed :Ne: polr can't properly estimate the likelyhood of something happening or not, so if you can imagine it, it probably will happen. To the ESI at least.

That is, what I would speculate at least. Keep in mind the ESI psyche is a mystery to me. Maybe I am just theorycrafting out of my ass. Keep that in mind. :biggrin:

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Actually your ass theorycrafting makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Avebury

Is he the one who drives?

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Yes but he demands it! He doesn't like my driving apparently...

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Originally Posted by Lord Pixel

Yup, everything you say to me makes sense. Especially the needing a weeks notice, because if you just pulled up on me randomly and said "Hey let's drive some where far." especially if I was looking forward to lazing around all day, I would say no before I even had time to really think about it lol, just because I am comfortable and do not feel like getting up to do something let driving far away. But with a weeks ahead of time notice I start to look forward to the drive and anticipate it. Also vulnerable Se is a major insecurity in masculinity for male EIIs so you telling them to man up is pouring gas on a fire he is lit his whole life, he probably secretly fears he's not a real man, so when you say that to him it's like "OUCH!" lol. Or that's my experience at least. But him expecting you to read his mind or see all these possibilities he sees probably doesn't feel good for you either.

But all this can be BS because apparently I'm IEI and not EII, idk anymore it's all confusing lol. All I know is that I'm INFP in MBTI and this was my relationship with ISFP in MBTI. Two MBTI Fi dominate types.

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Yeah, I definitely should never question his manhood. I know he's sensitive about it. He's also pretty manly looking (naturally muscly and tall) albeit soft-spoken so I kind of think he should just own that manliness and not be insecure about it. Just be confident!!!! haha (not really fair to him, I know.)

Another thing that strikes me as "weak" is the way that if I push back about something or am a bit critical he can't then just discuss it or laugh about it or consider it and respond. It's like an instant bruise from me to him, and then he doesn't come back with anything, just sulks like I have wounded him, which I find TIRING. I then beg him to engage me in the discussion and he seems offended and just says he doesn't know what to say or doesn't have anything to say. ARRRGGGGGHHHHHH

It can definitely seem like a lot of walking on eggshells sometimes.

And yeah, he likes his lazing around and doesn't want that disturbed by my spontaneous ideas. His term is "bombardment." Anything I bring up that is something to do (Se) seems to feel to him like I'm just bombarding him. I have to be quite careful about bringing things up that cause him anxiety, and incidentally for this reason I also handle all the bill paying and managing finances, etc.

And @Avebury, yes, I hate waiting. My EII LOVES the anticipation of things (loves surprises, loves to NOT know what a present is going to be, loves looking forward to things he is excited about, etc). I like to have something to look forward to but I don't like that anticipation. If I want to do something I'd much prefer to do it NOW NOW NOW. ;->

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Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007

Looks like EII and LSI shares some similarities. Shows that result types tend to thrive for novelty out there whereas process types tend to be more homebodies (yes, Aushra described it that way).

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Interesting! My EII and my LSI brother get along quite well so I wouldn't be surprised.

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Originally Posted by MrsTortilla

Yeah, I definitely should never question his manhood. I know he's sensitive about it. He's also pretty manly looking (naturally muscly and tall) albeit soft-spoken so I kind of think he should just own that manliness and not be insecure about it. Just be confident!!!! haha (not really fair to him, I know.)

Another thing that strikes me as "weak" is the way that if I push back about something or am a bit critical he can't then just discuss it or laugh about it or consider it and respond. It's like an instant bruise from me to him, and then he doesn't come back with anything, just sulks like I have wounded him, which I find TIRING. I then beg him to engage me in the discussion and he seems offended and just says he doesn't know what to say or doesn't have anything to say. ARRRGGGGGHHHHHH

It can definitely seem like a lot of walking on eggshells sometimes.

And yeah, he likes his lazing around and doesn't want that disturbed by my spontaneous ideas. His term is "bombardment." Anything I bring up that is something to do (Se) seems to feel to him like I'm just bombarding him. I have to be quite careful about bringing things up that cause him anxiety, and incidentally for this reason I also handle all the bill paying and managing finances, etc.

And @Avebury, yes, I hate waiting. My EII LOVES the anticipation of things (loves surprises, loves to NOT know what a present is going to be, loves looking forward to things he is excited about, etc). I like to have something to look forward to but I don't like that anticipation. If I want to do something I'd much prefer to do it NOW NOW NOW. ;->

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All that anticipation and love not know, Ne all the way, that is definetely Ne lol. That is me also to a T.

Yup everything you said just makes me smile because I'm like this is Sooooo MBTI ISFP MBTI INFP relations right here lol.

And yea the bruising him with the push back, that's another blow to Se. I remember my ISFP girlfriend said to me one time "SHUT UP!" and I just sulked for the rest of the time I was with her, it was confusing because like I wanted to tell her "DO NOT TALK TO ME LIKE THAT! EVER!" But I felt like that would have been an overreaction, even though I thought her telling me to shut up was an overreaction, but I did not want to overreact myself, but I also wanted her to know what she had done hurt me, so I became silent and hoped she picked up on it, but I also did not want to overreact because I thought she might think me getting so mad at her telling me to shut up is weak or petty, and that would make me more mad if she thought that. It was complicated lol -_-. It just didn't want to make a big deal out of it, and solve the problem within myself, even though it hurt me still. I so badly did not want to get mad at her yelling at me like that, but I could not develop the thick enough skin.

Also the bombardment makes sense as wel. I remember one morning I woke up and had my whole day planned out in my head, I was gonna finish up some artwork I started the previous day, I had ben looking forward to working on the computer, then my friend comes and asks me if I want to go to the movies, I told him no, he looked at me like I was a jerk, but I mean I wish I had know before I started looking fo much forward to working on my artwork all day, I just wanted a nice day to myself and a 2 hour movie would take me away form that, if I wanted ot get something to eat for 10 mins I would of said yea, but 2 hours of distraction away form what I really want to do, I wouldn't be able to watch the movie without wanting to rush home and make up for the time I lost. So those spontaneous ideas sometimes can take me away form something I was really anticipating lol.

I loved the Fi/Fi connection with her though, it was so intense and felt like we spoke the same language, and I felt like I could be my WHOOOOLE self around her. It's funny how different we are.

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Originally Posted by Lord Pixel

All that anticipation and love not know, Ne all the way, that is definetely Ne lol. That is me also to a T.

Yup everything you said just makes me smile because I'm like this is Sooooo MBTI ISFP MBTI INFP relations right here lol.

And yea the bruising him with the push back, that's another blow to Se. I remember my ISFP girlfriend said to me one time "SHUT UP!" and I just sulked for the rest of the time I was with her, it was confusing because like I wanted to tell her "DO NOT TALK TO ME LIKE THAT! EVER!" But I felt like that would have been an overreaction, even though I thought her telling me to shut up was an overreaction, but I did not want to overreact myself, but I also wanted her to know what she had done hurt me, so I became silent and hoped she picked up on it, but I also did not want to overreact because I thought she might think me getting so mad at her telling me to shut up is weak or petty, and that would make me more mad if she thought that. It was complicated lol -_-. It just didn't want to make a big deal out of it, and solve the problem within myself, even though it hurt me still. I so badly did not want to get mad at her yelling at me like that, but I could not develop the thick enough skin.

Also the bombardment makes sense as wel. I remember one morning I woke up and had my whole day planned out in my head, I was gonna finish up some artwork I started the previous day, I had ben looking forward to working on the computer, then my friend comes and asks me if I want to go to the movies, I told him no, he looked at me like I was a jerk, but I mean I wish I had know before I started looking fo much forward to working on my artwork all day, I just wanted a nice day to myself and a 2 hour movie would take me away form that, if I wanted ot get something to eat for 10 mins I would of said yea, but 2 hours of distraction away form what I really want to do, I wouldn't be able to watch the movie without wanting to rush home and make up for the time I lost. So those spontaneous ideas sometimes can take me away form something I was really anticipating lol.

I loved the Fi/Fi connection with her though, it was so intense and felt like we spoke the same language, and I felt like I could be my WHOOOOLE self around her. It's funny how different we are.

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So interesting! Same with us: we actually will say to each other how we just wouldn't be able to be ourselves with anyone else (or so we think). And that includes completely silly, completely WHATEVER in every circumstance, we just don't have to put on any false personality. Whatever our problems, that is a very good thing.

Something I have realized regarding your main paragraph above (and I only have recently figured this solution out and have told my husband to try it): If he could respond to a "bruised" situation with humor and doggedly do so until I crack and just lighten up, that would work. It would take a little effort and a learning curve, but it would probably fix a lot of our communication troubles. If he sulks it annoys me, if he occasionally flips out angry back it's way too over the top, but if he jokes back (RARELY) it seems to work. Sometimes he'll try the humor approach but I stubbornly don't react. So I have told him to keep at the humor just a little longer and it WILL work eventually. This is what I'm hoping we'll master in order to dissolve our issues in future.

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Originally Posted by MrsTortilla

So interesting! Same with us: we actually will say to each other how we just wouldn't be able to be ourselves with anyone else (or so we think). And that includes completely silly, completely WHATEVER in every circumstance, we just don't have to put on any false personality. Whatever our problems, that is a very good thing.

Something I have realized regarding your main paragraph above (and I only have recently figured this solution out and have told my husband to try it): If he could respond to a "bruised" situation with humor and doggedly do so until I crack and just lighten up, that would work. It would take a little effort and a learning curve, but it would probably fix a lot of our communication troubles. If he sulks it annoys me, if he occasionally flips out angry back it's way too over the top, but if he jokes back (RARELY) it seems to work. Sometimes he'll try the humor approach but I stubbornly don't react. So I have told him to keep at the humor just a little longer and it WILL work eventually. This is what I'm hoping we'll master in order to dissolve our issues in future.

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Yup, that sweet Fi leading connection is wonderful. That's how I knew ISFj was my kindred IR. Even before I new about Socionics I felt like my ISFP ex was related to me like a cousin or something. No changing myself trying to be something I am not, she loved me for who I really was and I loved her for everything she was. Yup I agree with everything you say there, I felt like she was the only perosn I could be that way with.

Hah so I was right, lashing out in anger is too way over the top just like I thought, see that's why I refrained because I knew YELLING SO LOUD BACK AT HER would not really work and just look immature and super butthurt about something so small lol. Funny thing is I learned to deal with pain through joking later in life, but sometimes when someone forcefully yells at you it's hard to say a joke when you either feel physical pain from their tone of voice or you just feel intense anger, in those moments I naturally either sulk or shut down trying to calm myself down and fix the problem inside myself. I do remember one time where my ISFP ex was mad at me, and I sort of just grabbed her in a playful hug and she broke into a smile and couldn't be mad anymore looool, that was great.

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Originally Posted by Lord Pixel

Yup, that sweet Fi leading connection is wonderful. That's how I knew ISFj was my kindred IR. Even before I new about Socionics I felt like my ISFP ex was related to me like a cousin or something. No changing myself trying to be something I am not, she loved me for who I really was and I loved her for everything she was. Yup I agree with everything you say there, I felt like she was the only perosn I could be that way with.

Hah so I was right, lashing out in anger is too way over the top just like I thought, see that's why I refrained because I knew YELLING SO LOUD BACK AT HER would not really work and just look immature and super butthurt about something so small lol. Funny thing is I learned to deal with pain through joking later in life, but sometimes when someone forcefully yells at you it's hard to say a joke when you either feel physical pain from their tone of voice or you just feel intense anger, in those moments I naturally either sulk or shut down trying to calm myself down and fix the problem inside myself. I do remember one time where my ISFP ex was mad at me, and I sort of just grabbed her in a playful hug and she broke into a smile and couldn't be mad anymore looool, that was great.

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I really understand why it is hard to implement the joking thing when actually in the situation. VERY hard to forcibly do this. But if it can be done it totally diffuses the tension. In the bolded above, this is the PERFECT way to deal with this stuff. That and validating stuff she was upset about. I feel like my husband also does very little to say, "I understand why you're upset, I'm sorry, and here's what we'll do about it." I really wish he WOULD. Instead he assumes I know he gets it and never validates me. I don't know if this is just what anybody wants to hear when they're upset or if it's what Fi's want to hear or ESI's want to hear, but it's definitely what I need to hear and would quash my upset pretty quickly if he reassured me like this. If you're ever in a situation like this again now you know what to do. ;-D

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Originally Posted by MrsTortilla

I really understand why it is hard to implement the joking thing when actually in the situation. VERY hard to forcibly do this. But if it can be done it totally diffuses the tension. In the bolded above, this is the PERFECT way to deal with this stuff. That and validating stuff she was upset about. I feel like my husband also does very little to say, "I understand why you're upset, I'm sorry, and here's what we'll do about it." I really wish he WOULD. Instead he assumes I know he gets it and never validates me. I don't know if this is just what anybody wants to hear when they're upset or if it's what Fi's want to hear or ESI's want to hear, but it's definitely what I need to hear and would quash my upset pretty quickly if he reassured me like this. If you're ever in a situation like this again now you know what to do. ;-D

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I think it would be easier for him to do it if he knows for sure that it will work, if not he might be unsure and think "Maybe she doesn't like the joking this time, ok I'll stop." Also it might be easier for him to do it if he know that when you are mad or push him it's really not your intention to bruise him, he might then think it's his own personal problem, not something you are trying to do, and he might joke just so he can solve the problem for himself, so he's not internally mad or sulking. I can see how he would assume you get that he gets why you are mad, Ne once again. I think he is very capable of voicing that he gets it if asked like " Do you get why I'm pissed." Or "You don't even get why I'm pissed!" But that might also be hard to voice if you are angry. Yes I think your Fi want's the be validated, like you want someone to acknowledge your feelings as valid, instead of dismissing them or not understanding them, same with me, I think it's an Fi thing. I think the "here's what well do about it part is largely Te, ready to take action and solve the problem, he might understand why but not always know a solution. But I imagine understanding is half the battle and relieves the heart greatly.
But yea thanks, that's useful information, this is exactly the sort of stuff I came to this site for lol.

Just for, idk, giggles, on an MBTI site their are ISFPs that do creative :^D face emojis too, and my ex used to do face crazy face emojis too, not the normal : ) ones. Lol idk, just saw that.

My sister is EII. I have seen her often choosing the easiest way out or the path with the least resistance even though she knew deep down she should have chosen differently. And the most annoying part is she always framed it as her being open minded and me not giving people or situation enough benefit of doubt while all I wanted is for her not to be a doormat and not to be taken advantage of.

She is now married to her dual and her dual has helped her with Te and Se and now we see eye to eye much better.

Interesting enough the only time she stands up for herself without outside help is when she is dealing with SLE's.

A lonng time ago I wrote about ESI-IEE interactions, the dynamics between them is not unlike that between ESIs-EIIs:

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.co...vs-iee-vs.html

Basically it boils down to this: ESIs are hands-on people that get things done, first and foremost by just doing it, thus Se or sheer will power. This is also the message that they subconsciously send out. Now Se is the EIIs PoLR, so you can understand how EIIs will respond to that. If you want an EII to be productive, you need to feed them Te, not Se.

And obviously, EIIs will have their moments when they want to direct the course of the ESIs as well, feeding them Ne instead of Ni.

I have experience with ESI , and that's my dad and my little brother type. We get along and rarely fight. But , he annoyed by my PoLR Se.
It's weird , I'm close with them

I have a lot of ESIs in my life. Never successfully built a close relationship with any of them.

I’ll take an account from my most recent experience with an ESI-Se romantic interest.

He started off courting me in very normal aggressor-like fashion, persistent contact, lots of bravado on his accomplishments...then when things started to get real, he ghosted. He came back and ghosted two more times before things ended.

If I analyze it socionically, we both felt a little weird about each other but there was a lot of attraction. He was very flighty, often made promises he couldn’t keep, and resented it when I called him out for it (Ne PoLR). He would egg me on in Se things, which I didn’t mind too much (I grew up around a lot of Se) but of course felt my limitations in. I thought we were a good pair but he either didn’t think the same or wasn’t comfortable with our dynamic.

I think due to Se, ESI comes off harsh and more overtly judgmental and they’ll use it against EII even though they’re kindreds. I do sense that ESI treats EII like a dunce because of their hatred of Ne but EII is repulsed by Se so they may unwittingly treat ESI as if they’re dirty.


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My ESI aunt and I have a good relationship however she’s a neat freak and I am not. She’s also pushy and demanding and I am not. She’s different than myself, much more of a disciplinarian. I am a cuddly lovey dovey person. I want to exist to peacefully with her but she can’t help it to constantly define me with “you are too much of a softie” and pushes me “leave your daughter here and go fight for your country” she loves to tell people what to do directly whereas I am more like “let’s do x together “

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Originally Posted by Beautiful sky

My ESI aunt and I have a good relationship however she’s a neat freak and I am not. She’s also pushy and demanding and I am not. She’s different than myself, much more of a disciplinarian. I am a cuddled lovey dovey person. I want to exist to peacefully with her but she can’t help it to constantly define me with ds like “you are too much of a softie” and pushes me “leave your daughter here and go fight for your country” she loves to tell people what to do directly whereas I am more like “let’s do c together “

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Kaffirstan for the Kaffirstanis!

I've always been fascinated by people who want *you* to go fight some war for them, while they stay home and *manage* things.

Give her a rifle and a one way plane ticket to what ever region she wants to liberate.

I wish, I wish, that could be done to Dick Cheney, military Hawk and draft-dodger.

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Kaffirstan for the Kaffirstanis!

I've always been fascinated by people who want *you* to go fight some war for them, while they stay home and *manage* things.

Give her a rifle and a one way plane ticket to what ever region she wants to liberate.

I wish, I wish, that could be done to Dick Cheney, military Hawk and draft-dodger.

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Armenia

"ISFPs judge people quickly; INFPs are too distracted to care." - comment in an MBTI facebook group that i read years ago and stuck with me.

My EII friend, a classmate in our grad program, got me into meditation, as well as personality typing; I've been a consistent, reliable presence for her as she's dealt with chronic health issues that have been difficult to diagnose and seek treatment for. It's taken a while for me to figure out the sort of, set point in our relationship dynamic. Seems like sometimes I hold back or am unsure of what sides of myself to show. She shows care and affection in possibly more indirect ways than i do (cue my Ne polr). She made me a beautiful necklace with crystals that are thought to support and welcome love, connection and healing (intentions/values I share for the new year), as part of her homemade Christmas presents for her loved ones this year... now that is concrete enough to really get through to me! hah. pretty amazing, the creativity and deep intentions behind her gift-making.

I'm still figuring this dynamic out. Spending more in-person time together in the future, given that we now live in different cities, will be nice

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Originally Posted by wonderwoman

"ISFPs judge people quickly; INFPs are too distracted to care." - comment in an MBTI facebook group that i read years ago and stuck with me.

My EII friend, a classmate in our grad program, got me into meditation, as well as personality typing; I've been a consistent, reliable presence for her as she's dealt with chronic health issues that have been difficult to diagnose and seek treatment for. It's taken a while for me to figure out the sort of, set point in our relationship dynamic. Seems like sometimes I hold back or am unsure of what sides of myself to show. She shows care and affection in possibly more indirect ways than i do (cue my Ne polr). She made me a necklace with crystals that are thought to support and welcome love, connection and healing (intentions/values I share for the new year), as part of her homemade Christmas presents for her loved ones this year... now that is concrete enough to really get through to me! hah. pretty amazing, the creativity and deep intentions behind her gift-making.

I'm still figuring this dynamic out. Spending more in-person time together in the future, given that we now live in different cities, will be nice

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My experience of EIIs is certainly not that they don't judge people. They can be more easygoing in a certain way (well, I guess that way is not being Se ego), but EIIs definitely do judge IME, often in ways that seem unfair or arbitrary to Fe valuers. ESI "judgement" I actually find easier to negotiate with/come to terms with. ESIs at worst seem to want to be left alone and you can come to some agreement whereby you don't bother each other. EIIs' Fi is like some twisted inversion of SLE Se in that it refuses terms or negotiation; the EII just does what he wants and everyone else just has to put up with it.

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Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

My experience of EIIs is certainly not that they don't judge people. They can be more easygoing in a certain way (well, I guess that way is not being Se ego), but EIIs definitely do judge IME, often in ways that seem unfair or arbitrary to Fe valuers. ESI "judgement" I actually find easier to negotiate with/come to terms with. ESIs at worst seem to want to be left alone and you can come to some agreement whereby you don't bother each other. EIIs' Fi is like some twisted inversion of SLE Se in that it refuses terms or negotiation; the EII just does what he wants and everyone else just has to put up with it.

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Freelance, thanks for adding nuance to my quotation of a surely overly simplistic contrast made by someone. (my quotation of which perhaps belonged in the EIIs being judgmental thread, but I didn't have much to say overall on the topic...)