Are Fi types more "sensitive"?
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Are Fi types more "sensitive"?
Fi types are sensitive in a sophisticated way. So just because you are a Fe-whore that does not mean you that you have your back clear being a dickhole.
Thank me later, once this statement of mine becomes your reality. Or don't evolve, like at all, you mole person.
I think generally speaking (how accurate this is depends on where your Fe/Fi is placed, other values etc.):
Fi valuers: Offended by over the top sexuality, crude joke/humor. Fan fiction that goes too far with sex or violence. Too much campiness.
Fe valuers: Offended by people trying to deflate their energy. Offended by people trying to make the social atmosphere way too serious over merry.
To me, Fe is very NYC nightlife gay and Fi is very traditional conservative heterosexual. Okay that's a little too extreme but you know what I mean.
Yeah, Fe valuers often make jokes about buttsex when a Fi valuer is trying to be sophisticated.
In my experience it's often in the reverse. Not gonna make an 'oral' joke. :hello:Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves
Fi is Candace Cameron Bure
Fe is Lady Gaga
rl its more subtle than this but you get the idea.
I don't know if Fi egos are are overall more easily offended in terms of quantity/frequency of offense but I think a few things contribute to this perception: 1) their buttons are sometimes idiosyncratic and it can be difficult to predict what will offend them unless you know them well, 2) they're confident in their perception that you said/did something 'wrong' even if it isn't globally perceived as a wrong, and 3) they're constantly evaluating how they stand in relation to you and how subjectively good/bad they feel you are, so if they're offended it carries a certain weight with respect to your relationship (this is probably true for anyone but it's more at the forefront with them). These things can be nerve racking to deal with.
People can appear sensitive to others when their rules of interaction disagree. Each quadra has things that can be discussed openly and without restraint. They also have things that they consider sacred and private. Because of the differences in valued functions, the things that each quadra will be sensitive about will be different. You're most likely to label someone sensitive when you're crossing quadra lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrows
So, no, Fi is not uniquely sensitive.
I forgot to mention this in my first post: it's often not the content itself but the manner or context in which something is mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrows
It also depends on person as well as decade. People are generally more sensitive to offense than they used to be. That's why you see among the younger crowd a move toward creating restraint on free speech in countries like the USA that used to value it. There's also a liberal/conservative divide as to what's considered offensive, so it's not just related to type.
As far as what offends IEEs, I'm not sure. I'm not the easily offended sort myself. I could more easily tell you about what irritates me than what offends me.
I realize this is kinda hypocritical of me as I am an infp and very sensitive myself, and sometimes really easily offended- but I wish the world as a whole would stop being this huge pussy over everything. It's annoying. They over-react and label situations as abusive when they're not, they're trying to be some moral cop without looking at their own dark shit and working on it. The world has gone insane with this shit, none of us have the right to not be offended. Living life.. you're going to get offended, and it's not always everybody else's fault.
ps: I'm not picking on only Fi valuers here, just everybody in the world.
Attachment 12185
Webster Dictionary's definition, (adj) offensive:
- causing someone to feel hurt, angry, or upset.
- rude or insulting.
Id like to think we use the term "offensive" more so with the secondary definition and more on the terms of finding someone or something insulting, but from this whole definition, I find Fe to be highly prone to offense. I'm constantly double checking my words around them, especially my IEIs, and yet somehow they read between the lines and end up taking offense, getting hurt, and shutting down anyways.
It happens so often that Ive had periods where I just don't talk to them at all for awhile.
Unless I'm just completely blind and out of tune with my own nature, I agree with @Aramas that it's difficult to trigger a genuine response of offense in me. Thinking back however, I do recall feeling offense when someone insisted that their ability to sympathize with someone else was much greater and deeper than mine. Naturally, this statement was made by an Fe valuer.Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrows
I recall feeling offense in the lack of recognition that I have an internal emotional world, and just because I don't always wear it on my sleeve doesn't mean I'm not feeling things deeply. Especially when it comes to sympathizing with others. I'm more prone to go cry and pray privately in my room later on than have an emotional meltdown right there with the individual.
Something about not being understood, or even worse, having my internal emotional world under valued or written off was incredibly offensive.
Apart from that, I haven't found a whole lot that can dig at me.
@applejacks I have done the IEI 'shutting down' thing before though it wasn't so much that I was hurt myself is that I was overly empathetic and too afraid I'd hurt others with my own views on things.... I have been told before by some others how disgusted I made them feel. So it was better to keep quiet then 'disgusting' them with my points. I'm not overly sensitive... it's a mistake. I'm overly sensitive for everybody else. :lol:
And no, I don't like to babysit other people's emotional worlds but I do like it when people do the same for mine. I suck in this way I guess. I want to improve myself in this area. I have really always wanted to value Fi a bit more (while still keeping my natural Fe value ness high).
My question would be - how can Fi and Fe give each other genuine, honest feedback in the form of friendly advice (healthy criticism) without stepping on toes? This has been the hardest struggle in a friendship for me. I would hope a friend could gently and lovingly help me with a blind spot. I'm not sure IEIs feel the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves
idk, in my experience it takes somebody with like Fe demonstrative but Fi valuing (like SEEs) that helps IEI with a lot of Fi crap. (helping them be more empathetic with Fi valuers , IEI is already very good at Fi- but helping them value/show compassion & empathy for those who value it more directly & strongly.) . My benefactor (ESI) is also good at helping me with it. Deltas don't share any valued function with betas and we often need a third party of an alpha or gamma to bridge the gap.
So maybe your own semi-dual or benefactor can assist you in the same way. Though I've personally never had any problems with you despite you clearly being very delta. :lol: :love:
Youve actually been insightful and helpful to me in this thread. So, thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves
And of course, I have no problem with you or any IEI. I just can't seem to crack our miscommunication problems. I suppose these things are at the heart of socionics and why some relationships are easier or more fluid than others. :)
Sometimes I wish I had a magical Beta Hat.
Some people have weird triggers. I remember the following:
- Work dinner end of December with 20-25 colleagues. I ask a colleague about a specific problem he had in his geographical area (which btw he solved successfully). Apparently later someone told me that he felt like i was "socially invalidating" him by referring to some problem in his work (I was actually interested in his solution). I think the guy is beta ST.
- Dinner with some close friends. SEE female friend bakes a cake. I like it, reminds me of some cake my mother used to do with this ready-made powders from the supermarket. I ask her what kind of powder did she use? And she replies with the name, super embarassed / a bit pissed off. Later, a friend tells me that she always boasts she bakes every cake completely from scratch, and I involuntarily "busted" her cover...
Maybe in some ways they keep trying to look for something, inside of you, that's just not there and they feel empty because of that.
Same lol xD
I remembered one time, real life scenario :
We're in a group, and then i noticed that my infp friend doesn't look like having a good time. She's just serious and then i just asked her (only because I'm concerned)
"are you okay!?"
Then she reacted negatively on it.. She said something like,
"do i even look I'm not okay?!!!!"
Okay then another one Fi user friend.. We're all getting along very well, but I don't know.. Because sometimes I'm being myself and very out of place that i sometimes fail to check on her.. It's just this.. She'll just stop acting normally with you, and you know there's something wrong with what you did.. But you don't have any idea what it is.. XDD
It's really hard to read them actually. Probably they're more prone to passive-aggressiveness, i think.
Plus my another infp online friend. I actually don't share my Facebook online.. We're all getting along well.. But he's asking my Facebook but i don't give it...because online is online and real life is real life. That's two different things. But i just mentioned him that i added someone in real life like my pastor on Facebook and I'm complaining now i cannot say something lewd there xDD then he just suddenly got silenced.. And then after one week he's silent.. Then I'd found out that hes mad at me because i didn't add him on Facebook and he's complaining like as if i don't trust him.. XD wtfffff xDD
Man that's really stupid. I just explained him that i don't like using Facebook and it's stupid to just rate your friendship only on online social media. Like i have to say or open his eyes that not everyone on Facebook is my real friend. And not because we're on friends on Facebook is we're really not friends.
My mother as well. She's very sensitive lol xD
they seem like have trust issues.. No matter how close you two can get..
They just have a different ways of viewing things i guess.. And mostly, they blame themselves..
You just have to adjust yourself i guess and explain things clearly to them.
They're nice people but just sensitive.
Fi-types aren't necessarily more sensitive; however they do often allow small offences to fester - turning molehills into mountains. They tend to not immediately communicate their displeasure or clear the air while there's opportunity to clarify; instead, they go away and think about it, sometimes adding their own dark, unfounded suppositions to the fire.:content:
a.k.a I/O
@Rebelondeck
god damnit that was so spot on.
To be fair , Fe valuers probably make light of situations that we shouldn't. But Fi valuers make heavy of situations that they shouldn't. :lol:
They may or may not be more sensitive, however they can detect and regulate it better. Base :Fi: does so constantly perhaps beyond what is necessary to do (hence :Te: suggestive), creative :Fi: sporadically, adapting or not without much sense (hence :Ti: PoLR). I personally control how much I let something get to me as I seek to interact, what I tolerate and what not, what bridges to build and what not, where to agree and where not, where to ease the convo or not. Conversely, I see the attitude of the other person, and decide how to navigate, repel, or cooperate. When I get offended or offend another it has purpose since I want to prove a point, that was the initial idea - :Fi: egos will be deliberate. It's not some visceral reaction, "OH GOD!!! I HATE THIS!! I'M SO HURT!". That only happens when the type wants to make their position clear. EII likely won't do that in an overt manner, that's the exception. SEE would be the one since the :Fe: demonstrative hammer is delivered as well for some impactful (:Se:!) upheaval :lol: ESI will not get offended for its own sake either, they want to remove the source of offense instead so of course they avoid fueling it. It's always interesting to draw the comparison to :Fe: which will be more straightforward and reactive in whatever way, but they can just get as offended. After all, offense needs a reaction:
https://socialworktutor.com/wp-conte...fended-GIF.gif
Lol, these offenses make total sense to me but I wouldn't necessarily predict them beforehand. That's why I'm super quiet around people until I sorta have them figured out. But the consequences of that are probably worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Please roast us salty Deltas but not the Gamma SFs please :lol: :Se: is all about immediacy and resolving the conflict as it comes, going to the root and reconciling with :Fi:. SEE won't just retreat and ponder and amass baseless grudges in their imagination where it gets darker and darker like in Balzac's inner landscape :timeout: They come at you and slight back asap, what annoys them gets countered. They don't sweat the small things either, sensing is pragmatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
@Chae
How does one earn a Fi-valuer's forgiveness or is it impossible? :lol:
I understand the first guy, the second no, because it is something completely idiosyncratic to her - also she is a farlo close friend, no need to keep up the Image.Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlesha
Even in the first case, i knew the person managed to solve the problem (otherwise ofc i wouldnt have asked)..
Gamma SFs are also like Delta NFs in this part imo. I knew an SEE who would not voice that he was hurted by what was said (especially if it's coming from a dear person) but they will do so when they reach their limits but for IEEs and EIIs I noticed that if they reach their limits, they just disappear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
While :Fe: is about expression, :Fi: is about reflection. Consequently, if you offend an :Fe: type, they're more likely to let you know right away. On the other hand, if you offend an :Fi: type, they're more likely to process those feelings internally.
Between an :Fi: and an :Fe: type, this difference often creates communication breakdowns. Even in cases where all parties involved recognize the cause for the communication breakdown, the preference for one function over the other still unconsciously undermines attempts as bridging the gap.
Yeah even when both the Fi and Fe valuer are trying their hardest to be nice to each other- you still feel the strain and its energistically exhausting.
I've seen both IEEs and SEEs build resentment up to explosive states. They don't seem to sweat the small things but the small things often seem to accumulate to something uncontrollable. The so-called sensitivity often seems masked by their tendency to avoid confrontation; instead, they try to laugh things off or jokingly spar with the perpetrators, but down deep, there can be a deadly serious accumulation that can come out when least expected........:content:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
a.k.a. I/O
This stuff is getting to the level of too much personality and coping methods being confused with type. The glass is not that clear.
Seems such. Fe types are more rude but after quarrel are easier to restore same communication.
Fi types are more polite and hold aggression inside, feel the offence deeper, accumulate it. So passive-aggressive style like stay and feel offenced is more about them.
From their view - they rise a distance with the ones who hurted them and such care about own emotional comfort (Fi).
But to get vengence are more chances from Fe types.
Fi with E-9 are worst in this. They may be offenced unexpectedly strong on a minor thing, just because their unconscious accumulated previous dislikes about you. Or they are more touchy than you ever expected. They may not say you bad words to discharge their emotions, but just will keep you away for long. And you'll have almost zero possibility to resolve the situation on rational level as they will not listen you. Massaraksh.
Coping mechanisms are very integral to type; I often feel more confident about type determination when I also observe the person dealing with stress - it's a sort of parity check......:content:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarper
a.k.a. I/O
Im not e9 but I plead guilty to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol
http://1k6kcz5e21e3yunpze4q1cxn.wpen...59_1583350.png
Reminds me of something that happened with a relative. I walked into the kitchen one day, noticing that something smelled bad and said, "What stinks?" She was immediately angry and hurt and said, "It's coffee and it smells GOOD!" My reaction: woops.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Her type: ESE
To make the problems worse unconscious negative complex distorts the work of weak functions when they interact with you on themes close to past dislikes. So they may not only to show inadequate degree of being offenced, but also may do this by inadequate reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlesha
In my experience I was charged in breaking my promise, while I never did that promise! I pointed on this several times, and the last time I tried to discuss with giving the citations, what I got in return was "I forgave you already for that, so there is nothing to discuss". That happened after I've rejected to give some personal info, and before that I rejected to give other personal info - so the unconscious anger was accumulated and then discharged by strange offence and complaints.
They are :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
However, just as you said in your last quote to me, there's an overlap of functions eg, T and F.
It would not be the first time I've seen an ILI 'moralize' an SEE, eg, you should not say that, that can offend someone, not PC, cost your job etc.
In alleged layman's terms, there's enneagram to explain another facet of behavior above type.
Just be careful not to obfuscate type, individuals and groups :)
Or perhaps remember not everyone else does :)
@Scarper, it's a little more complicated. The overlap regions, which are partial information sets, are best accessed by one's secondary configuration - in a sense, one temporarily takes on a dual-like persona. The actual behaviour will be dual-like; however, the resulting perspective is more superego-like because eventually your normal processes take over and translate the dual-like results to something more understandable to your normal processes.
a.k.a. I/O
Your IEE friend behavior sounds like something I do, although not intentionally. There are people around me that I genuinely enjoy, but my focus with an indicidiaul tends to be so narrow and intense that it's hard to maintain so many at once. And yet I get along with many people, so I find myself shuffling and re-shuffling the deck of friends, so to speak, and making my rounds from time to time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrows
That may come across as disingenuous. I try my best to keep one or two people close, but I can't seem to keep a persistent enough energy to handle them all at once. EP, perhaps? My energy goes from 200% to 2%, so I find myself working and resting / socializing and hermiting in cycles.
Cool :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
In my work related team there is an ILI manager, an ESE 'second in command', the ILI enjoys the ESE's energy, for myself, I enjoy her energy too, and her honesty about my interpersonal relationships, mixed in with her laughter at my jokes (who doesn't enjoy one's own jokes being laughed at?).
So, it could be, i've typed the ESE incorrectly, it's an SEE, or myself, but, it just seems all this stuff is really a bit far fetched ....
But, to go back to the point, if one has sussed all this out, and it fits the system, then one ascribes behaviors such as, 'Fi are passive aggressive', 'Fe types gossip', well, there's a nugget of truth to it.
I just can't work out how much truth of it is going to help me in my life :) (ie, is it theory, or useful).
Or, the IEE I argued with ... she got her team to work hard whilst it's quiet, then when it's busy they had their team meeting. Seems weird to me, relax when it's quiet, work when it's busy [it's common sense?], yet (as anyone would be likely not to), she didn't like my opinion on the subject.
So, as much as this stuff matters, maybe, it just seems weird to try to fit it above an idea of 'there is generalized ideas of types', but no specifics.
Sorry for the questions, but, thanks :)
Yeah I know one ESI who hates me and has that kind of attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlesha
My thinking...her loss.
The flip side would be making excuses for people you like. I think everybody does it to some extent. Otherwise there'd be no friends or enemies or anything cuz everybody would just be who they are in the moment and there'd be no permanence to any of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
It seems to me that people I get on with are those who agree with me, or if they disagree with me, we still have an understanding in that it's a way to work things out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlesha
I honestly don't know how or if socionics fits in with this.
Yes everybody does it to some extent, I agree. For example I agree that my girlfriend is far too lenitent with some of my downsides. (Thank god)Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlesha
I think the only problem to that attitude is that...it should arise over a long time frame. Like at least 4-5 years. Otherwise people's behavior may have a lot of variance and you may end up trusting too much the wrong people, or closing yourself off to decent people.
I don't ascribe to those nuggets because all types can be passive aggressive and gossipy. I found Socionics useful for me as a manager who had to put teams together, because I don't have the natural abilities that other types have. However, it only works for me when I put in the time to do analysis because on the fly, I run essentially blind to most interpersonal cues. For SLIs, understanding better why people do the things that they do may help to diffuse some inner suspicions and anger since they likely have the tools to pick up the body language but may misinterpret a lot of it.:content:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarper
a.k.a. I/O
You got that right :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Thank you for being a mature rational type (rational type, not necessarily socionics related, I just find mature LIIs are full of sense, so thank you :))
PS, I think it works well with the ESE I work with, I understand the job well, i'm good at it, can help her (she's got good 'Te' it seems to me too), however, my personality is mostly relaxed, with a practical groundwork, so it's OK. I sometimes tell her stuff I think about others, she tells me how to think (socioncs would say 'feel') better about it, so if it's supervision, we both have a mutual respect and mostly helpful feeling towards each other.
I think we can also say that Fe is really sensitive about and easily hurt by Fi sensitivity. Just look at the countless number of threads about Fi sensitivity created by Fe type people who is angry or upset that Fi s are sensitive. Its like you guys take the real offence and begin whining when Fi type are sensitive or responds negatively to sth you said or did.
I feel like its analogous to a Te type having trouble with their car and asking a Ti for more specific knowledge in relating how to solve the problem. Fe types know when they've got a problem by way of feedback they don't like, but its not in their nature to accumulate a rigorous underlying subjective ethical understanding of the issue, so they need to ask questions of this nature to learn how to better navigate future potential problems. eventually with enough nuggets of this kind they may actually build up their own understanding but it gets sort of transformed into a Ti thing somewhere along the way. Sort of like how Te types maybe learn "I better read the manual, before diving in" where Ti gets turned into a Fi principle that feeds into Te
So what is being learned with these threads ? Which information they have gathered so far ?
Its likely to turn into a crying fest with a bunch of people telling personal stories about how they offended Fi types before and how this restricts their freedom and energy in social gatherings...
a crying fest sounds awesome
let it out
See? I don't have Fi. Im not sensitive guys
Wake up.
Type more accurately lol
I do not quite agree to this: what needs to be differentiated here, are cause and effect, or in this particular case, motivation and behavior. You can perform the same act twice, resulting in similar behavior on the outside, but getting differences in response from an Fi-valuer. What causes the difference in response? The difference in underlying motivation for the actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrows
It might seem idiosyncratic from a behavioral perspective, but it isn't from a motivational POV. Fi valuers do not so much pass judgment on behavior, but more on character. It also looks at long term effects of actions, which also has to do with result-oriented Te.
Fe valuers, on the other hand, are more inclined to judge outward behavior, irrespective of what motivated the behavior, and no motive can justify certain behaviors. This also ties in with Ti, which lays down the rules, irrespective of contexts.
!!!!thisQuote:
Originally Posted by consentingadult
this is why stuff like enneagram which blankets motive pisses me off, and why I really do think intentions matter a shitload in the ethical evaluation of any given situation
when you really start concerning yourself with motives you really see what a reduction it is, and it becomes counter productive in relating to other people past a certain point
in a certain sense you could say the same thing about sociotype except its not a theory of motivation, although it does become counter productive in relating to other people, for other reasons
I'm totally like the OP described. When somebody mistreats me I can process it for a very long time and then "randomly" hint at it a few months (or even longer) later. I usually can't react immediately when somebody pushes my bottom and it takes me longer than other people to acknowledge and process whatever is happening, but the effect is usually long lasting and hidden deep within me until I get a chance to hint on it.
That's actually a very accurate distinction :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by consentingadult
Yeah, @consentingadult seems to be on the spot there. As I'm still not 100% sure of my type (delta vs beta NF) take what I'll say with a grain of salt. But it would make sense to me if Fi would look beyond just the sheer reaction of an individual in order to make judgements. I don't think they (Fi users) are as picky as some stereotypes make out to be.
A little anecdote, I'm not sure how it ties to 'sensitivity' but it might tie to the Fe vs Fi deal.
I woke up at 5 AM because I had to catch a bus and go to the airport. I had a city break planned for Berlin, and off I went. On the highway, we stopped at a Gas station to stretch for a bit and buy breakfast. It was summer, the sun was barely shying out of the horizon and it was still pretty early. I went inside to buy a sandwich and a coffee. As I'm still too young to leave the country without a parent coming alongside me, I had my mother acompany me throughout the journey. While we were waiting at the counter, the girl serving the customers was behaving *strange* to say the least. She was muttering stuff like 'I can't do this anymore...' or 'I will collapse'. And she was visibly angry. She threw sandwiches in the heater instead of just placing them there, knocked money from the counter aside (and even threw some stuff on the floor). Despite all of this, she was still trying to mimic a smile when addresing customers. My mother and another woman from the bus were criticizing her behaviour, visibly upset and even a bit angry at the barista's attitude and calling her 'rude'. I wasn't angry, nor upset. I felt bad for the poor girl. Why? Because it occured to me, on the spot, that it might not be her fault entirely. Maybe she had a terrible shift, maybe she was sick. It was still early, maybe she was forced to work overtime (I heard of such horror stories from gas station employees). I was justifying her behaviour first, without even criticizing it. And I think that's what I do 70% of the times (though with people I hate, that's an entirely different story).
Is this related to the feeling functions? No idea, you should tell me, reader. I just figured it would fit here.
There is not enough information in your post to draw conclusions, but this article might shed some light on the social aspects of Fi and Fe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Dreadful
http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...fi-and-fe.html
http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...ork-floor.html
Otherwise it might be related to another function as well.
For me it just all depends if I detect any malice coming off the other person or not. A few vulgar words doesn't bother me as long as I know the other person are good feelings going around and I know the person isn't directing what they are saying at me. However if the person is being a cold little upset salty bitch while at the same time saying nasty things you can bet I'm going to get butthurt.
I remember getting my feelings hurt once when these 4 or 5 boys in third grade kept making fun of me for not knowing about sports terms. And I hated it because I knew if I told anybody about it they would just say that I needed a thicker skin or something, or that I should learn more about 'typical boy things' so I wouldn't get harassed so much- so I kept all this pain inside of that inward for many years. Looking back at it though, I am a typical ****** that knows nothing about sports and it is okay to have a laugh at my expense because of that, I suppose.
If they would just have left it at that though I wouldn't get so offended. But they also violated my physical boundaries often, on top of the verbal teasing/abuse. And I should have punched them in the jaw the first time they did it- I eventually did, but it took me way too long and too much damage was done by the time I finally was physical. I'm not actually the type to get offended very easily - but if you consistently harass me, yes I am only human. And I will break and kick your ass. In society we are taught not to be physical.
Society needs to be more Se and less Te.
sry for the double post but I've found out that often if we simply say 'That hurt my feelings' to somebody- surrending to them, and being honest about how they made us feel with their words - it can help mend the relationship. There's no need to attack them back/try to censor them or respond with too much anger (depending on the type of offense) - simply say 'that hurt my feelings.' Not with the suggestion that getting your feelings hurt puts you morally above anybody else- on this special plane of victim hood existence, but with the intent to repair the relationship between you two.
It doesn't always work, but I found out that it often does more than we think. And yeah some people will use it in a mocking way like 'ooh you are hurting my feelings' to a rape victim or some fucked up shit like that but you know, obviously I am talking about situations that are more salvage-able.
The possibility to generalize experiences of many ones and to see how it fits to the theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr inappropriate
Not effective in the case of T types which have primarily logical motivation to make better, and think that your minute feelings are nothing compared to the result. It will be perveived as your caprice.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves
> It doesn't always work, but I found out that it often does more than we think.
It does in the degree others will understand your emotions better which sometimes overweight the expected use from what they are doing.
For Fi to rationalize, a certain amount of detachment is required so short isolation cycles are very typical. Also Fi-types try to objectify and it can be hard to do that in a crowded environment. Eps usually require more time alone than Ips in order to function at peak effectiveness. I make a distinction here between needing isolation and choosing it......:content:Quote:
Originally Posted by applejacks
a.k.a. I/O
There are many layers to the sensitivity of Fi. Person X saying a few crude words might be a-okay, but if those words were to be uttered by Person Y? Then we've got problems. This could seem inconsistent to an outsider, because the behaviors that the Fi reacts to (or doesn't) are the same, but as is mentioned in this thread, it is not the behavior that gets evaluated as much as the motivation and thus, the character of the person, behind it.
When I have voiced my criticism in the past, a complaint I would receive was that it was hypocritical of me to condemn them for something when another person did the same thing and I left them alone. However, I'm fully aware of this, and to me it is not hypocritical at all since I am judging the action in its appropriate context; that of one's character.
I don't let many people in, because I feel like most people aren't worth the investment. That's as much a sensitivity to them as it is to my own person. I know what kind of person meshes well with me, and what kind doesn't. Oftentimes people are seen as relatively neutral by me, which means I act cordial and friendly and pleasant, but nothing of my personal life and values are to be shared with them. It can be read as me being sensitive or hard-to-reach, I suppose, but I prefer "guarded." It saves everyone time.
Still, I am not easily offended. I am hard to surprise with offense since I know who to expect it from. As such, I take it as my own responsibility to either react to it or leave it be. I take an extra effort to be conscious of my decision to act or not to act. Most of the time, I choose not to act because the offense is minor and not deserving of reproach. I also am not in the habit of bringing up past offenses, because I already made the choice to let it slide and I don't want to be petty. I never forget past offenses though.
When I react to an offense, I force myself to do this in a timely manner. If too much time has past, then I have to deal with my feelings myself and I can't blame anyone else for them ... this didn't come as easy for me when I was a teenager, I can tell you that! I am very aware of my own sensitivity and so I make sure to be accountable for that. Making some snide comment months later is a BIG no-no for me. I see that as weak, petty, cowardly. If I had a problem with someone months ago, then I should've reacted in a timely manner. Anything after is on me.
But then, if there really is an "anything after," I'll make sure to be as distant and removed from the person as possible. This is as much to protect me from hurt as it protects them from my (potentially out of proportion) reaction.
:thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson
Yes, brilliantly put. I find myself in this. In a nutshell, it's all about "case-by-case": adjusting distance and agree-/engagement - in the eyes of :Ti:, this would all seem elusively unfair in a way.
"case by case" is a logical Te principle, but too often it gets used to justify being contradictory, which non contradiction is a Ti principle. Te and Ti are compatible because "case by case" is an inherently non contradictory proposition when done correctly. at worst it creates apparent contradictions that are dissolved when you link the unique circumstances to the confusing outcome. The problem is when IEE creates confused outcomes without actually having done the logical work and is ethically in the wrong because of clear logical problems, but refuses to admit it. In that case the apparent contradictions are real and not imagined, and "case by case" is just a cop out to be stupid. In other words, it would be a mistake to think that if you seem unfair its not because you're not actually being unfair. this is something IEE conveniently ignores because they're prone to exaggerations so they never "mean" what they say. In the end distance regulation is the solution for everyone involved because IEE operates under the assumption everyone wants their presence as if it doesn't cut both ways, sometimes the best solution is for Fi to go off and be alone and Ti wants that just as much as Fi types. In the end there's a cosmic regulation to how if you "seem unfair" sufficient to annoy a significant amount of people, and your solution is distance via case by case bases, ostracization is perfectly appropriate in your case by your own logic. the bottom line is this is where IEE begins to check themselves, when its "no longer fun" etc. So it has a way of working itself out. You could say this is the Fe way of seeing how "seeming unfairness" is not without consequences and there is a working regulatory scheme despite Fi's surface immunity to criticism along those lines
IEE wanting to be alone a lot is just a Ti polrism to get a upper hand on the ethical situation, the truth is they want people as much as any ethical extrovert, its their own self assessment using words that differs for reasons unique to them. if you go by their actions IEE regulates themselves just as effectively despite being a zany snowflake in their self concept. EIE Ni in the philosopher variant is probably the biggest loner they just don't try to get ahead of the situation by exaggerating it as if that confers some kind of immunity to people not liking them for legitimate reasons
This is a very interesting take, and i somewhat agree even if in my head i hadn't rehashed it to this degree just yet, but why do you think the bold is the case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertrand
I think they just get so obsessed with their ideas they spend all their time on them and they are generally sort of anti social in regard to socializing as a priority. they're not anti social in the sense that if you corner them they're very congenial but they set their life up as a legit cloistered one, because their "intellectual mission" is so totalizing. the other subytpe is more "walk with the people" type and sort of goes about it the opposite... if you sat him down and made him write something it would probably be quite good, but he spends time in the opposite fashion
I also think Fi in the above example can "regulate distance" in a bad way, which is to say sometimes they remain too close, as is often the case with abusive relationships. Also once IEE realizes they depend so much on others they can suffer from low self esteem and become so "object dominated" that they likewise will rationalize abusive situations. So its not like Fi and "regulating distance" inoculates one from harm or creates super powers. it gives and it takes, it can be kind of a vicious dynamic at times
I've noticed some people doing this in the past and it usually just leaves me confused, because I'll see them be upset by a certain behavior and think, "Ah okay, they don't like when people do that" so when they're fine with someone else doing the same thing it's just :confused: And because the reasons they are okay with one person and not the other person are subjective, I'm not going to be able to pin it down. You think you understand a person, and then they throw you for a loop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson
Heh, this can lead to some weird conclusions on my part too - like there have been times when I've been kind of mean to a person and they just laugh and are friendly and fine, and then I can do or say something that is meant to be nicer, and they get upset. . . so I'm left with the conclusion, "They must prefer people being mean to them," when that could be very far from the truth lol. It's sometimes actually been that I made them upset without knowing it the first time around and they're only reacting to it later.
a lot of this just goes to strong ethics in general and "exceptions" as a category they navigate well, if you add in strong intuition it starts to become kind of inscrutable from a logical sensing point of view. I would not peg it to Fi in of itself so much as an emergent property of strong ethics in general, since Fe likewise entails a shitload of apparent inconsistencies based on situation. its why they get accused of being "fake" a lot. "liking" one thing with one group and the opposite with a different one etc