Random people of certain types you met recently or earlier

To clarify he did not say let's fuck. He asked if I give head, out of the blue, in between two unrelated other questions. I had no intention of sleeping with him by saying I would have coffee, even if other people might assume that. i gave him no information to think I wanted that. I did not provoke, prior to this he gave me the third degree about my life/son etc.

So I think it would be more transparent if it was essential that he knew the answer to that question before meeting to ask it before arranging to meet at the very least. Just my opinion.

About IEE's that may be true on one level. But there is another side to us that is very heartfelt, loyal and caring.

I lack experience with online dating but if somebody from a dating site asked a question like that prior to meeting I'd assume they weren't looking for a prolonged relationship.

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

To clarify he did not say let's fuck. He asked if I give head, out of the blue, in between two unrelated other questions. I had no intention of sleeping with him by saying I would have coffee, even if other people might assume that. i gave him no information to think I wanted that. I did not provoke, prior to this he gave me the third degree about my life/son etc.

So I think it would be more transparent if it was essential that he knew the answer to that question before meeting to ask it before arranging to meet at the very least. Just my opinion.

About IEE's that may be true on one level. But there is another side to us that is very heartfelt, loyal and caring.

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he was just being provocative, it backfired, that´s kind of it I think...in his mind at least.

Tbh it´s not like SLIs especially the Te subtypes are champions of finesse - but they´ll likely be less direct.

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

To clarify he did not say let's fuck. He asked if I give head, out of the blue, in between two unrelated other questions. I had no intention of sleeping with him by saying I would have coffee, even if other people might assume that. i gave him no information to think I wanted that. I did not provoke, prior to this he gave me the third degree about my life/son etc.

So I think it would be more transparent if it was essential that he knew the answer to that question before meeting to ask it before arranging to meet at the very least. Just my opinion.

About IEE's that may be true on one level. But there is another side to us that is very heartfelt, loyal and caring.

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I haven’t done online dating yet, either, but I do meet a lot of women IRL with an eye toward dating them, and I’ve never asked a woman straight out if she gives head (on first meeting her).

On the other hand, I like to know what I’m dealing with and if there is any potential there, and I find that a person’s sexual proclivities can usually be completely understood by inference by the second date, at latest.

LIE’s are oriented toward ESI’s, and both are very straightforward. I was on a first date recently with an ESI who complained that her previous BF’s didn’t like the messiness of sex and couldn’t understand why she might need manual stimulation to reach orgasm, and I told her I’ve been familiar with both for years and it’s perfectly normal. Common, even. This level of direct honesty was within hours of meeting.

In the other hand, after sleeping with an SLI several times, I asked her for head and she said, disdainfully, “Who does that?” And she had had a number of previous BF’s.

Different strokes for different folks. But you should know that by now.

FWIW, I (an LIE) have been approached by two IEE’s in a way that I can only describe as them being extremely slutty. In both cases, when I responded even slightly to them, they completely shut me down and shut off. I interpreted this to mean they are oriented toward doing whatever it takes to get their incredibly inert duals to even fucking notice them. But if the object of their attention responds to them in the slightest, then that person is not an SLI and they’ve made a mistake.

That’s how we filter for our duals. So instead of complaining that an LIE doesn’t respond like an SLI, thank your lucky stars that the system works.

So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and stop bitching that your dog can’t do calculus.





*after coffee EDIT* @Guillaine, FWIW, I like the female IEE’s whom I know in real life. I completely agree that they are loyal, heartfelt, and caring. My ex-wife’s sister is IEE and is a wonderful person, as is my bookkeeper. I’m even trying to get my very inert SLI son to pay attention to IEE’s in the hope that he’ll have smoother sailing than I did in my first marriage.

But I’m not going to date an IEE, and I’m certainly not going to ask one about her sexual preferences. I’ll save that for the ESI’s. :)

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

I realised a guy was LIE after 2nd sentence but agreed to coffee anyway. Thought I'd learn about them at least. We arranged to meet. Then he asked me a sexually explicit question out of the blue.

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Different factors besides types influence - personal, situational.
From the point of types:
1. It's not common for LIE. He could be this type or other like ILE, for example.
2. There are people who use dating sites just for short sexual relations. So he wanted to clear the situation sooner to do not spend the time on you if you are against such relations. There may be profile fields (or general comments fields used such) on those sites alike "I seek for long/serious relations/marriage" - to reduce the chance to repeat.
In case of possible ILE - they (and P Fe valued types) rather more than average tend to have many sexual partners and surface relations. For ILE sensual pleasure is the most important in relations for base Ne types - they seek for sex strongly, meanwhile emotionally close friendly communication needs the time and relates to Fi - their weak nonvalued region.
3. The degree of your negative could be lesser in case of better IR. You could to see that as funny situation, but not so bad.

> Immediately I was turned off by the timing- straight after we arranged and not before if it was that crucial to know, also not very caregiver of him, merry/serious clash?

Base T types (in common) seek for emotional side of relations the most, so sexual interest is expressed after significant emotions appear. Also it's important for them to have mutual feelings. All this does not happen on 1st date with the unknown ones. As the most important is emotional contact, so the expression of physical interest develops step-by-step, but not so roughly and accidentally. Base T types seek for long and emotionally good relations, but not sex with random ones.
That dude reminds Fe valued one as seems he did not care about your feelings (while romances are such region) and so acted in rough style, and reminds P type as you saw he acted accidentally without noticable preparation.

Thanks guys, yes I'm aware some men want sex on dating sites lol! And I do respect my duals who are more completely upfront about it and it does make me laugh and not feel threatened. I guess I thought if the guy was asking so much personal information about me, like about my son, which I find quite full-on but was patient enough to respond then he was not just looking for sex. Pretty sure he was LIE Sol. Just a bit inexperienced with F women perhaps. Actually, it's by knowing Adam online, the way he types, that I identified him.

It's no big deal. I just was curious to know why it got to me and I think it was partly a Creative-n/d clash. I like to view myself as original and impressive etc. with lots of wonderful, whiz-bang, experimental ideas and solutions up my sleeve for all parts of my life including the bedroom and for him to ask me such a mundane question kind of deflated me because he completely didn't see my potential and didn't give me the ingredients I need to be inspired and shine- appreciation and trust.

Also I'm just sensitive because the SLI-T I've been texting and recently spoke to has it turns out only months ago come out of a long term relationship and isn't looking for anything serious and I on the other hand am very ready after 3.5 years at home on my own with a baby so we agreed to part ways. Well, he wanted to be "friends" and I said no as I barely have energy for the right people, let alone those with no desire for a relationship.

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

Well, he wanted to be "friends" and I said no as I barely have energy for the right people, let alone those with no desire for a relationship.

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For a woman to be "only friends" with a man is doubtful. Some chance if he's not free or in offline communication.
You mb pals. But if friendship feelings appear - it will not stop on this.
IRL good friendly communication with a man having good IR with you - straight road to a romance. If you have interest to him and sure you may become friends, have mutual attraction to your communication - spend your time on him. I'm not sure in your IR with him, as not sure in how people type even themselves, but if he's open in principle, you think him as your dual, like his look and find as smart one - such people cost the efforts.

> isn't looking for anything serious

This changes with feelings, while they start with friendship.
With good IR is needed closer psyche distance to notice good between you. The progress of feelings mb fast.

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

Thanks guys, yes I'm aware some men want sex on dating sites lol! And I do respect my duals who are more completely upfront about it and it does make me laugh and not feel threatened. I guess I thought if the guy was asking so much personal information about me, like about my son, which I find quite full-on but was patient enough to respond then he was not just looking for sex. Pretty sure he was LIE Sol. Just a bit inexperienced with F women perhaps. Actually, it's by knowing Adam online, the way he types, that I identified him.

It's no big deal. I just was curious to know why it got to me and I think it was partly a Creative-n/d clash. I like to view myself as original and impressive etc. with lots of wonderful, whiz-bang, experimental ideas and solutions up my sleeve for all parts of my life including the bedroom and for him to ask me such a mundane question kind of deflated me because he completely didn't see my potential and didn't give me the ingredients I need to be inspired and shine- appreciation and trust.

Also I'm just sensitive because the SLI-T I've been texting and recently spoke to has it turns out only months ago come out of a long term relationship and isn't looking for anything serious and I on the other hand am very ready after 3.5 years at home on my own with a baby so we agreed to part ways. Well, he wanted to be "friends" and I said no as I barely have energy for the right people, let alone those with no desire for a relationship.

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@Guillaine, let me apologize for clumsy LIE’s everywhere. I think you probably identified him correctly, because my approach may have a bit more finesse, but it is not different in kind. I like to get right down to business, and most LIE’s probably do, too.

I have found that my approach to women offends most types because, of course, they are looking for some type other than a pseudo-aggressor. I have solved this problem by simply not dating any types other than ESI’s.

And I’m sorry to hear that your SLI doesn’t want what you want. Keep looking, you’ll find one who does.

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Originally Posted by Sol

For a woman to be "only friends" with a man is doubtful. Some chance if he's not free or in offline communication.
You mb pals. But if friendship feelings appear - it will not stop on this.
IRL good friendly communication with a man having good IR with you - straight road to a romance. If you have interest to him and sure you may become friends, have mutual attraction to your communication - spend your time on him. I'm not sure in your IR with him, as not sure in how people type even themselves, but if he's open in principle, you think him as your dual, like his look and find as smart one - such people cost the efforts.

> isn't looking for anything serious

This changes with feelings, while they start with friendship.
With good IR is needed closer psyche distance to notice good between you. The progress of feelings mb fast.

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Yeah when I say friends I think he wants friends with benefits if you know what I mean- sex without emotional/romantic involvement per se. I might keep my options open with him, we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

I think he wants friends with benefits if you know what I mean- sex without emotional/romantic involvement per se

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People want good relations with love.
You may try to establish friendship (soul attraction and some cooperation) and romance relations without sex with the one you think as the dual. Mb he'll accept this. Good IR help in this. Then feelings may develop for more.

The reasonable sequence: friendship -> serious feelings -> sex (if you both like the idea of possible marriage in case of pregnancy). If you both will feel the love - you'll want the marriage and children, naturally. In case of the dual - good chance for good relations and hence the reason to try this approach.
The approach of short and surface relations with early sex makes the obstacle for normal relations to appear. You'd spread your resources on alien people. Sex without serious feelings not only is lesser interesting and has risks, but may harm the normal relations development. As the energy for the efforts needed for establishing friendship in initial stage will be reduced. For normal relations creation it's useful to understand better each other, to understand better own feelings to each other, to give the time for feelings development, for preparations for marriage relations sometimes.

I think I met an ILE. Only had a twenty minute conversation with him. At first he was difficult (but interesting) to speak to because he would start new sentences and topics imbedded in previous ones so I would have a response ready to what he was talking about but then he'd talk for another five minutes and change topics three more times. I had to learn when to tactfully interrupt him by predicting when he was about to come to a pause in one topic to follow another tangent and then jumping in when I could. He didn't seem to mind and conversation flowed much better when I started doing this even though I felt rude at first.

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Originally Posted by mrrrmaid

I think I met an ILE. Only had a twenty minute conversation with him. At first he was difficult (but interesting) to speak to because he would start new sentences and topics imbedded in previous ones so I would have a response ready to what he was talking about but then he'd talk for another five minutes and change topics three more times. I had to learn when to tactfully interrupt him by predicting when he was about to come to a pause in one topic to follow another tangent and then jumping in when I could. He didn't seem to mind and conversation flowed much better when I started doing this even though I felt rude at first.

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I predict he will quickly become addicted to you and will be back for more.

Just bear in mind, you are the adult in the room. At some point, he's going to challenge you for dominance. Let him know who's boss (You are.). He'll object but will eventually be fine with that, mainly because you indulge him and admire him like no one else does.

I've seen this happen myself. I don't know how you SEI's do it. (Well, it works for ILE's. NOT for LIE's.)

I’ve probably done similar things to @Guillaine’s guy, frontloading my make-or-break attitudes and needs to avoid getting entangled with someone wrong for me, wasting my time and their time. This includes sex stuff first. I don’t think it was clumsy on my part, though. It was deliberate and direct, but the intent was benevolent and I think that came through.

If a guy asked if I give head, my response would be, how long ago did you break up with the woman who wouldn’t, and is that the only partner you’ve ever had? :/ I would also consider following up by asking why she wouldn’t, and if he bathes frequently, and if he goes down. Et cetera. I’d expect him to go away pretty quickly in response.

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Originally Posted by golden

I’ve probably done similar things to @Guillaine’s guy, frontloading my make-or-break attitudes and needs to avoid getting entangled with someone wrong for me, wasting my time and their time. This includes sex stuff first. I don’t think it was clumsy on my part, though. It was deliberate and direct, but the intent was benevolent and I think that came through.

If a guy asked if I give head, my response would be, how long ago did you break up with the woman who wouldn’t, and is that the only partner you’ve ever had? :/ I would also consider following up by asking why she wouldn’t, and if he bathes frequently, and if he goes down. Et cetera. I’d expect him to go away pretty quickly in response.

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Those all seem like pretty legit questions, @golden, and I wouldn't be offended at all by them or hesitate to answer them.

This might be why I like LSI's. They are immensely practical and straightforward and down-to-earth about sex.

I remember having a short discussion moments before first having sex with my first LSI GF about likes and dislikes, preferences and show-stoppers, and then it was all good. Neither of us was offended by this. It was like, "I like daffodils, but I hate spiders, and I'm never going to jump out of an airplane."
Same with the second LSI.
With many of the other women I've dated, though, things were a lot less clear.

@Guillaine within the context you provided the question seems less grimy lol. I was just giving my initial reaction since it was being discussed as a type-related thing. Sorry if it seemed condescending.

My recent project group in uni had an LII who kicked himself out of the group. That was the first time I had a genuinely negative experience with an LII. Most seem to be peaceful and even in situations that threatened their program functions (in the case of LII: fairness through rationality and equality) they try to stay away from conflict that could harm the group atmosphere. This LII however had the mentality of a dictator.
It's only natural for a group that some people work more than others for whatever reasons. He couldn't have that. He insisted that everyone worked the exact same amount of hours. It got so bad that people started to actively avoid him. Eventually he understood the situation by himself and left which is tragic. He was one of the more competent members. I think he should've accepted what is instead of fighting the group mentality. The only one who saw any problems was him. Maybe and ESE or SEI could've helped. But as far as I can tell our group only consists of T-types.

maybe you should have stuck up for him

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

My recent project group in uni had an LII who kicked himself out of the group. That was the first time I had a genuinely negative experience with an LII. Most seem to be peaceful and even in situations that threatened their program functions (in the case of LII: fairness through rationality and equality) they try to stay away from conflict that could harm the group atmosphere. This LII however had the mentality of a dictator.
It's only natural for a group that some people work more than others for whatever reasons. He couldn't have that. He insisted that everyone worked the exact same amount of hours. It got so bad that people started to actively avoid him. Eventually he understood the situation by himself and left which is tragic. He was one of the more competent members. I think he should've accepted what is instead of fighting the group mentality. The only one who saw any problems was him. Maybe and ESE or SEI could've helped. But as far as I can tell our group only consists of T-types.

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I don’t think university profs should make students do teamwork, unless they intend to teach students how to do teamwork in the first place.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/m...fect-team.html

The pro-argument is that the real world works that way. Well, it doesn’t. All the teams I ever worked on professionally were clearly structured, with clear roles, clear goals, and lots of time for co-workers to get to know one another and find effective ways to collaborate. Typically some or even most of the workers irl are mature, too. And most people are more equally invested in the outcome and in getting along in future.

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Originally Posted by ashlesha

@Guillaine within the context you provided the question seems less grimy lol. I was just giving my initial reaction since it was being discussed as a type-related thing. Sorry if it seemed condescending.

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No I did not feel that from your post, no need to apologise, none of us really knows what he was thinking. It was just annoying timing to me to ask right after I arranged and not before.

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Originally Posted by Sol

People want good relations with love.
You may try to establish friendship (soul attraction and some cooperation) and romance relations without sex with the one you think as the dual. Mb he'll accept this. Good IR help in this. Then feelings may develop for more.

The reasonable sequence: friendship -> serious feelings -> sex (if you both like the idea of possible marriage in case of pregnancy). If you both will feel the love - you'll want the marriage and children, naturally. In case of the dual - good chance for good relations and hence the reason to try this approach.
The approach of short and surface relations with early sex makes the obstacle for normal relations to appear. You'd spread your resources on alien people. Sex without serious feelings not only is lesser interesting and has risks, but may harm the normal relations development. As the energy for the efforts needed for establishing friendship in initial stage will be reduced. For normal relations creation it's useful to understand better each other, to understand better own feelings to each other, to give the time for feelings development, for preparations for marriage relations sometimes.

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You may be right but I think it's pretty normal to take a year or more after a long term relationship breaks up to be open enough to feel love again, at least in my experience. If he says he doesn't want a relationship I am going to take him at his word.

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

You may be right but I think it's pretty normal to take a year or more after a long term relationship breaks up to be open enough to feel love again

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You may talk like friends. To talk about what is interesting for one or both of you - about what you like or dislike, to give the support and help in something, to do neutral things together, etc.

You do not need the open romance situation. But if you'll feel each other as friends, the feelings will become warmer between you - to switch in romance is much possible. The problem after breaking of other relations - the bad mood. Help him to overcome it, be friend to him and if you'll success - it will not take long monthes for new feelings coming to him.

> If he says he doesn't want a relationship I am going to take him at his word.

He was about a romance. Talk with him like with a human and forget on some time he's also a man.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

My recent project group in uni had an LII who kicked himself out of the group. That was the first time I had a genuinely negative experience with an LII. Most seem to be peaceful and even in situations that threatened their program functions (in the case of LII: fairness through rationality and equality) they try to stay away from conflict that could harm the group atmosphere. This LII however had the mentality of a dictator.
It's only natural for a group that some people work more than others for whatever reasons. He couldn't have that. He insisted that everyone worked the exact same amount of hours. It got so bad that people started to actively avoid him. Eventually he understood the situation by himself and left which is tragic. He was one of the more competent members. I think he should've accepted what is instead of fighting the group mentality. The only one who saw any problems was him. Maybe and ESE or SEI could've helped. But as far as I can tell our group only consists of T-types.

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What is the point of doing the same hours? What type of project are you doing? Context is very important. He probably can do the project alone anyway.

I remember leaving a group once, in my first year, and then refused to ever work again in a group if I didn't have the final say on things. These are one of the rare instances where I actively seek to be in charge. It sucks when you do your part perfectly and you get a shit grade, which happened to me before.

I don't care if people don't contribute anything to the project, they still need to try, and they need to report what they have done in a timely manner. I've had lots of lazy people in projects. As long as they manage to add something relevant, I don't care if they don't complete their assigned part. If it seems that their work isn't up to standard, or what is expected, I will do it myself. But I've cut people who haven't answered my calls or showed up to meetings. They need to pretend that they care at least. I won't feel bad about leaving their name out if they didn't do shit and their ass didn't show up except for the first and last day.

Honestly, fuck group projects. I don't remember once looking back and saying "oh man, If I didn't do group projects in Uni I wouldn't have being able to do X at work!" That shit just made me lose hope in most students and future co-workers. I'm glad my job rating is independent of co-workers' performance.

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Originally Posted by COOL AND MANLY

What is the point of doing the same hours? What type of project are you doing? Context is very important. He probably can do the project alone anyway.

I remember leaving a group once, in my first year, and then refused to ever work again in a group if I didn't have the final say on things. These are one of the rare instances where I actively seek to be in charge. It sucks when you do your part perfectly and you get a shit grade, which happened to me before.

I don't care if people don't contribute anything to the project, they still need to try, and they need to report what they have done in a timely manner. I've had lots of lazy people in projects. As long as they manage to add something relevant, I don't care if they don't complete their assigned part. If it seems that their work isn't up to standard, or what is expected, I will do it myself. But I've cut people who haven't answered my calls or showed up to meetings. They need to pretend that they care at least. I won't feel bad about leaving their name out if they didn't do shit and their ass didn't show up except for the first and last day.

Honestly, fuck group projects. I don't remember once looking back and saying "oh man, If I didn't do group projects in Uni I wouldn't have being able to do X at work!" That shit just made me lose hope in most students and future co-workers. I'm glad my job rating is independent of co-workers' performance.

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It is a computer science project to gain experience at collaborating with other developers - which is a real world scenario. He wasn't in charge. None of the srudents were. We have a docent who overlooks our progress .We devided the work between the group members equally. The Disagreements startet when an SLI girl in the group left earlier than the rest of us to have lunch. She was simply more effective and therefore quicker than him. I think he had something against her personally. He was very open about how he thought things should go but when he didn't get what ge wanted he didn't stop complaining about it which got on everybody's nerves. Our docent told him to hold back a little and that talking to him was very difficult due to his disagreable behavior. He's gone now and the projects run a lot smoother now.

I'm sorry that you hate group projects. However in some situations, for example in mine, they are unavoidable and furtunatley the rest of the group is easy to work with and talk to.

You seem very passionate about the issue. Do you identify as LII?

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

My recent project group in uni had an LII who kicked himself out of the group. That was the first time I had a genuinely negative experience with an LII. Most seem to be peaceful and even in situations that threatened their program functions (in the case of LII: fairness through rationality and equality) they try to stay away from conflict that could harm the group atmosphere. This LII however had the mentality of a dictator.
It's only natural for a group that some people work more than others for whatever reasons. He couldn't have that. He insisted that everyone worked the exact same amount of hours. It got so bad that people started to actively avoid him. Eventually he understood the situation by himself and left which is tragic. He was one of the more competent members. I think he should've accepted what is instead of fighting the group mentality. The only one who saw any problems was him. Maybe and ESE or SEI could've helped. But as far as I can tell our group only consists of T-types.

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Robespierre!

On a serious note though, isn't the intent behind everyone working the same hours a way to try and establish fairness and equality, since in groups you have people usually who do nothing and one or two who do all the work?

I think that was the intent. Of course, such a thing isn't practical and can't be attempted without becoming seriously dictatorial. Every dictator is convinced they are doing what they do for the "the common good" even when results point to the contrary.

My point here is that while his intentions were probably good, the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

I also have to echo the sentiment that group projects at uni are a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Avebury

Robespierre!

On a serious note though, isn't the intent behind everyone working the same hours a way to try and establish fairness and equality, since in groups you have people usually who do nothing and one or two who do all the work?

I think that was the intent. Of course, such a thing isn't practical and can't be attempted without becoming seriously dictatorial. Every dictator is convinced they are doing what they do for the "the common good" even when results point to the contrary.

My point here is that while his intentions were probably good, the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

I also have to echo the sentiment that group projects at uni are a bad idea.

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Yes, I agree. We as a group thought so, too. There was nothing wrong with his intentions. His actions and his behavior however were negative. He was just a pain to work with. He'll learn from the experience. Besides he's in a new group now and it works a lot better for him, which is nice for everyone imo.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

It is a computer science project to gain experience at collaborating with other developers - which is a real world scenario. He wasn't in charge. None of the srudents were. We have a docent who overlooks our progress .We devided the work between the group members equally. The Disagreements startet when an SLI girl in the group left earlier than the rest of us to have lunch. She was simply more effective and therefore quicker than him. I think he had something against her personally. He was very open about how he thought things should go but when he didn't get what ge wanted he didn't stop complaining about it which got on everybody's nerves. Our docent told him to hold back a little and that talking to him was very difficult due to his disagreable behavior. He's gone now and the projects run a lot smoother now.

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Well, that sucks. He does sound unprofessional.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

I'm sorry that you hate group projects. However in some situations, for example in mine, they are unavoidable and furtunatley the rest of the group is easy to work with and talk to.

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Lol, I'm not sorry. It made me realise that I enjoy certain work environments more than others. Which I guess why I never worked in IT even though I majored in it.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

You seem very passionate about the issue. Do you identify as LII?

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Yeah. Sorry if If I came off too strong.

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Originally Posted by COOL AND MANLY

Well, that sucks. He does sound unprofessional.



Lol, I'm not sorry. It made me realise that I enjoy certain work environments more than others. Which I guess why I never worked in IT even though I majored in it.



Yeah. Sorry if If I came off too strong.

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Thank you and no it's all right I'm just a bit sensitive lately (: It's good to hear another one's (/LII's) perspective. I thought with Fe-seeking LIIs would be more open to group projects but that seems to be a misconception on my side.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

Thank you and no it's all right I'm just a bit sensitive lately (: It's good to hear another one's (/LII's) perspective. I thought with Fe-seeking LIIs would be more open to group projects but that seems to be a misconception on my side.

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If the LII is a 5, I’d say not at all, just ime they often are singleton and used to doing things their own way, and even if they can be gracious about other people’s views and approaches, that graciousness may evaporate if it impinges on their own intellectual freedom.

As semidual, the counterbalance I’ve provided to LII has been more on the social and physical sides of things. Yes they apparently can be drawn into some kind of community, yes they can work on certain kinds of teams I believe, over time, if they are convinced it furthers their interests. In fact that NYT article I linked above is something I happened to provide to an LII friend who was applying for a job with a very prominent organization but had real questions about her ability to handle the team aspect and to speak to the team issue in her interviews. Now she has the job it seems she’s doing okay with it.

I’d found the article because I have struggled with the issue of why some teams do great and others flop, and the feeling of having no control over the outcome.

Fe does not precisely = teams.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

My recent project group in uni had an LII who kicked himself out of the group. That was the first time I had a genuinely negative experience with an LII. Most seem to be peaceful and even in situations that threatened their program functions (in the case of LII: fairness through rationality and equality) they try to stay away from conflict that could harm the group atmosphere. This LII however had the mentality of a dictator.

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Shifting into that behavior of a dictator is an (unhealthy) reaction of an E-5 type. Behaving like an unhealty E-8 type happens when a E-5 type is seriously stressed.
Some LII E-5 types (and some LSI E-5 types) are prone doing this.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

I thought with Fe-seeking LIIs would be more open to group projects but that seems to be a misconception on my side.

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Yes, usually, but :Ti:-leading types want a project to be organized or structured in a specific way to match their :Ti:.

LII's having PoLR moments with some role. Using it often does not mean good practice. It requires adaptation. Quality > quantity.

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Originally Posted by Sol

You may talk like friends. To talk about what is interesting for one or both of you - about what you like or dislike, to give the support and help in something, to do neutral things together, etc.

You do not need the open romance situation. But if you'll feel each other as friends, the feelings will become warmer between you - to switch in romance is much possible. The problem after breaking of other relations - the bad mood. Help him to overcome it, be friend to him and if you'll success - it will not take long monthes for new feelings coming to him.

> If he says he doesn't want a relationship I am going to take him at his word.

He was about a romance. Talk with him like with a human and forget on some time he's also a man.

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Not something I am good at but I can try. We are two hours apart so I have little hope but you have given me some. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot

Yes, I agree. We as a group thought so, too. There was nothing wrong with his intentions. His actions and his behavior however were negative. He was just a pain to work with. He'll learn from the experience. Besides he's in a new group now and it works a lot better for him, which is nice for everyone imo.

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I love how its like taken for granted he was wrong, and you say he'll learn from the experience, when as far as I can tell he was right and the lesson is not to fuck around with you guys and instead always work with those other guys. if he was actually contributing to a disproportionately higher degree he's probably going to learn he can do so for them and inasmuch as they don't totally ignore him that's an improvement justifying the change. maybe hell even work harder for them. and that team benefits from whatever knowledge he brings. at no point have you seemingly considered you could be wrong and the fact he's better off elsewhere proves that, unless this other group is identical and its a lie it works better for him, or worse in a way that just happens to suit him. its like you never considered his point at all, and further, never considered this makes your team the bad guys in all of this. your strategy was to minimize having to make any sort of changes at all, and if the set point was unfair toward a person you considered it best for them to devise their own solution. that this means he leaves and you're deprived of his ability to think, which apparently isn't calibrated to be maximally lazy and uncreative and conforming to the point of self harm, and your team has their peace but fundamentally still has the same problem which is that ya'll are a bunch of fuckers no one wants to be around if they can help it, because the dynamic is stupid as hell. you guys are literally the rejects and huddled together telling yourself it was this other guys problem, the solution seems to be to stamp down any qualities then that protrude, if for no other reason that your team is the cast off of humanity and so any qualities that protrude are by definition the bad ones. this kind of leveling then makes sense, but only in a kind of kafkaeseque nightmare where stripping oneself of humanity is an improvement on the base material. a way to rejigger the machine to make self harm a net gain. if you ever wonder why people react hostilely to this sort of behavior refer to this post. its because you lack a concept of why things happen and think only of yourself, despite your misleading language usage. he was probably looking at you like you had a dick on your forehead the whole time. the only well wishers you attract with this autism and naivety are low-value sheisters who see in this an opening and offer their "understanding" so they can essentially barter the peace of mind it conveys you for favors down the line. the fact this entire thing is a race to the bottom is something anyone with half a brain puts as much distance between themselves and it as they can. so when we say "its nice for everyone" you're not wrong, but it means you're left with the people who can only sell eachother the same second hand goods back and forth forever, running off an illusory currency, and never create anything of genuine value. in essence you provide the low side of the hierarchy which gives context to everyone who isn't so dull, and in that sense it is "nice for everyone." i.e.: the kind of shit people get away from as soon as they have the merit and or power that allows them to do so

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Originally Posted by golden

I don’t think university profs should make students do teamwork, unless they intend to teach students how to do teamwork in the first place.

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At least no group of people should do teamwork when they don't function together as a team to do projects.

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Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007

LII's having PoLR moments with some role. Using it often does not mean good practice. It requires adaptation. Quality > quantity.

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Yes, I guess it has to do with having :Se: as PoLR-function.
I can tell that it's still difficult to control and adapt my level of assertivness in social groups.
In my younger years it was worse:
My behavior could switch from too mellow to too aggressive, the bad thing is, even small irritation could trigger this.

pretty sure most team assignments are just a way for profs to grade less papers

they don't really give a fuck about the burden that puts on the "teams"

from their point of view its probably less work for the students too, and since thats what they're all about, voila

this idea that winnie needs to go assess his behavior in light of this misses the point, which is he's being set up to conform to accommodate other people start to finish, and when he turns around an apologizes for his past "aggressive behavior" they know they've got him right where they want him

now if the "team" project genuinely required a team and couldn't be structured differently or the assignment simply given in a way that transparently reduces the profs workload and not at the expense of students, then it might be different, but usually people in that position realize success depends on actual group health and try to arrange things fairly to begin with. this whole thing is slipshod leadership and ignorance of group dynamics top to bottom

that the underlings turn around and try to sort themselves out just goes to show how programmed they are to obey and not question

The last time a professor assigned me to a team as an undergrad, I refused to do it. In grad school it hasn’t mattered as much because the students have been more motivated and the assignments have been structured so that it’s clear who is responsible for what and you’re still graded on your own work and not dragged into some bottomless pit by a howling idiot. :crispy:

ive been assigned a group for a group project presently and now im considering just asking the prof if I can do an entire "project" on my own. im tempted to see if he says no because he doesnt want to grade an additional project or if he's game. that its more work for me is not a big deal since having control more than offsets most of the increased labor, in my mind. my guess is the argument why I cant is its unfair because it "shorts" my team (it would leave 1 team with 2 people instead of 3). in which case I can just ask them if its ok, truth is they dont even want me, but theres this norm that is difficult to overcome which is getting everyone to admit 1) they don't even want me 2) teams don't need to hang together for their own sake. its a form of runaway politeness that if both ends are subject to it (teacher and group) theyre locked in even though no one really wants it or cares

I was visiting my LSE sister yesterday and she wanted to go out to eat and the only place open was an Olive Garden, so we went there.

Our server was a very, very attractive woman dressed all in black, but she had white white teeth and red red lipstick for a very dramatic effect. While she was getting our drinks, I told my sister that I thought I could tell what her personality was like, since 1. she vibed complexity a bit like me, 2. I found her intriguing and cautiously likeable but not sexually attractive even though she was beautiful, and 3. Wearing all black with a small red accent is a sign of LSI in my experience, but she was Fe all over the place, so EIE.

She returned, took our order, and asked if there was anything else that we needed. My LSE sister, who wears her hair very short, works in a lumber yard in Colorado, and looks butch as hell, said “You could join us.” Our server took a shocked step back, recovered, and took an instant dislike toward us and I thought “Uh oh, this needs to be fixed”. So I said “That would be nice but you probably have other tables to take care of.” And off she went while I started thinking about how to turn her attitude towards us around.

I figured that the best thing to do would be to act like her dual, an LSI, so when she returned to our table, I cut out the role-Fe and acted all stern and logical. Just the facts, Ma’am. I’m really working as a prison guard. I thanked her briefly and formally for the food and kept the smiles to a strained minimum. And by the end of the meal, she was moving past our table like a dramatic actress on stage and smiling when she moved away from us, so I guess that worked.

ESI-H. She has decided the course of action and the end result. I do not accept this.

We discuss and we both say inside of our minds "F*ck no" to each other. Everything goes peacefully with friction.

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

I was visiting my LSE sister yesterday and she wanted to go out to eat and the only place open was an Olive Garden, so we went there.

Our server was a very, very attractive woman dressed all in black, but she had white white teeth and red red lipstick for a very dramatic effect. While she was getting our drinks, I told my sister that I thought I could tell what her personality was like, since 1. she vibed complexity a bit like me, 2. I found her intriguing and cautiously likeable but not sexually attractive even though she was beautiful, and 3. Wearing all black with a small red accent is a sign of LSI in my experience, but she was Fe all over the place, so EIE.

She returned, took our order, and asked if there was anything else that we needed. My LSE sister, who wears her hair very short, works in a lumber yard in Colorado, and looks butch as hell, said “You could join us.” Our server took a shocked step back, recovered, and took an instant dislike toward us and I thought “Uh oh, this needs to be fixed”. So I said “That would be nice but you probably have other tables to take care of.” And off she went while I started thinking about how to turn her attitude towards us around.

I figured that the best thing to do would be to act like her dual, an LSI, so when she returned to our table, I cut out the role-Fe and acted all stern and logical. Just the facts, Ma’am. I’m really working as a prison guard. I thanked her briefly and formally for the food and kept the smiles to a strained minimum. And by the end of the meal, she was moving past our table like a dramatic actress on stage and smiling when she moved away from us, so I guess that worked.

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Go the acting Adam.
When I told one SLI H about socionics he was really interested for the reason that he could work out and act what everyone would want (I assume so as to get his way, as he was a very cheeky person). Scary to think what mayhem he would cause if he were able but thankfully he is very unintelligent and does not get things when I explain at all.

I think I just got off on the wrong foot with another LIE online. I thought he might have been ESE but we chatted about films for a bit the I went off line and he said he thought he had scared me away. i replied with some brash Ne self-revelatory crap about how i don't get scared away but I choose blah blah blah, then he said Oh dear no need to be so sensitive and took it badly. I apologised saying I didn't mean it that way but it was too late. note to self not everyone likes Ne!!!

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

I think I just got off on the wrong foot with another LIE online. I thought he might have been ESE but we chatted about films for a bit the I went off line and he said he thought he had scared me away. i replied with some brash Ne self-revelatory crap about how i don't get scared away but I choose blah blah blah, then he said Oh dear no need to be so sensitive and took it badly. I apologised saying I didn't mean it that way but it was too late. note to self not everyone likes Ne!!!

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Lol, @Guillaine. I would have said Ne was fine before you made that statement, but it made me realize that I think Ne is evil indecision and indicates an irresponsible failure to come to a decision. Good grief, I’m embarrassed at learning this about myself.

SEI girl. I guessed for her by a pendulum for yes/no in the 1st time in the life. Then I've offered her to guess herself on one too personal question. I've explaned her what to do.

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

it made me realize that I think Ne is evil indecision

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Ne is the other side of Ni, functions of different E/I attitude work as partners.
Redundant indecision is the trait of S types, seen in them by N types which _feel_ the positive outcomes and trust more in them. This is hard for S types which prefer be assured from outside or avoid to think about the future, concentrate on the material world and needed to be done in now/here. Though as the external help S types may to use own guessings by tools - they use their own N functions which stay in the uncounsious.

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Lol, @Guillaine. I would have said Ne was fine before you made that statement, but it made me realize that I think Ne is evil indecision and indicates an irresponsible failure to come to a decision. Good grief, I’m embarrassed at learning this about myself.

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Really? Lol! I can see how it could seem a bit blithering and dithery and often I find people think it is irrelevant/useless/confusing, that's why I try to lean the Fi in as well, but this time it came across as offensive, which I can understand, but I honestly wasn't meaning it that way.

PS I like your honesty and I still like you even if you don't like my base

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Originally Posted by Guillaine

Really? Lol! I can see how it could seem a bit blithering and dithery and often I find people think it is irrelevant/useless/confusing, that's why I try to lean the Fi in as well, but this time it came across as offensive, which I can understand, but I honestly wasn't meaning it that way.

PS I like your honesty and I still like you even if you don't like my base

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No, no. it wasn't offensive at all, and I certainly don't see you as blithering or dithery. Not at all. Your post just got me to thinking about Ne and how some people I know IRL use it. I concluded that they just refrain from making quick, seemingly final decisions, and indecision bothers me if there's too much of it. I like to have things settled.

(Maybe that's why Strat says that I and my dual close the distance fast - to get things settled.)

No, l have a pretty high opinion of and appreciation for all other types. I especially like IEE's, even though their approach to romance is completely different from mine. They are fun to hang out with. Lots of intelligent goofiness. I just have to be careful to not let it be obvious that I find them to be attractive, because I evidently do that wrong.

Saw a guy on public transport speaking Russian who looked so much like DarkAngelFireWolf69 that I had to do a double take so I can only assume LII

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Originally Posted by mrrrmaid

I think I met an ILE. Only had a twenty minute conversation with him. At first he was difficult (but interesting) to speak to because he would start new sentences and topics imbedded in previous ones so I would have a response ready to what he was talking about but then he'd talk for another five minutes and change topics three more times. I had to learn when to tactfully interrupt him by predicting when he was about to come to a pause in one topic to follow another tangent and then jumping in when I could. He didn't seem to mind and conversation flowed much better when I started doing this even though I felt rude at first.

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This seems like D in DCNH. Does that type resonate with you?

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Originally Posted by A Moderator

This seems like D in DCNH. Does that type resonate with you?

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My opinion on my DCNH type is not N. D could work since I do tend to behave like above but also I read that Ds are the most like their type descriptions and easiest to type and since I've proved difficult for people to type, maybe not? I feel like a D ExFj would be quite intense. I feel like I relate to it but I'm already Ej so it's hard to tell if I'm relating to it because I am D or because I have Ej temp?.

My inclination is probably I'm more C, and this is backed up by the fact most people see me as irrational when watching my video. But I haven't deeply examined DCNH so don't have a solid opinion :p

Certain person of random type: LSI
Random person of certain type: LSE
Certain person of random type: LSI
Certain person of random type: LSI
Random person of certain type: EIE
Certain person of random type: LSI
Certain person of random type: LSI
Random person of certain type: ILI
Random person of certain type: SLI
Random person of certain type: SEE
Certain person of random type: LSI
Certain person of random type: LSI
Certain person of random type: LSI
Certain person of random type: LSI
Certain person of random type: LSI
Random person of certain type: SEE

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Originally Posted by golden

If the LII is a 5, I’d say not at all, just ime they often are singleton and used to doing things their own way, and even if they can be gracious about other people’s views and approaches, that graciousness may evaporate if it impinges on their own intellectual freedom.

As semidual, the counterbalance I’ve provided to LII has been more on the social and physical sides of things. Yes they apparently can be drawn into some kind of community, yes they can work on certain kinds of teams I believe, over time, if they are convinced it furthers their interests. In fact that NYT article I linked above is something I happened to provide to an LII friend who was applying for a job with a very prominent organization but had real questions about her ability to handle the team aspect and to speak to the team issue in her interviews. Now she has the job it seems she’s doing okay with it.

I’d found the article because I have struggled with the issue of why some teams do great and others flop, and the feeling of having no control over the outcome.

Fe does not precisely = teams.

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This pretty much

I do think the behavior @Cosmic Teapot describes sounds consistent with LII.

I like collaboration as long as the people I'm collaborating with can contribute something as well or better than I can (either intellectually or by taking over work in a responsible manner) - otherwise I prefer to work alone and not have to rely on anyone. I only recall doing one (forced) group project in college. The other members were relatively responsible, especially one premed major that I typed as EII (or maybe some other Delta type, in retrospect).

ESI woman on a street. ~35 yo. Looked as serious and decent. She has shown some suprise to my attention - to assume a type I look directly into the eyes for several seconds. Seems I find almost all women of this type as attractive.

Possible EII young (<30 yo) woman with a white dog. She lives in the high building near which I walk almost every day in the last monthes. It was ~9:30pm. She looked childish and kind, thin body. I do not like that N types women are often thin, though it's significantly fixable with more eating. With higher ages women gain the weight and when it's not too much they start to look nicer, more feminine. S types have the lack of the weight more rare. In general, this factor makes ESI women to look as more attractive initially.

While I was standing in line to vote, two well-dressed women in their late forties/early fifties entered the line just after me; an IEI and her friend, an ILE. The IEI said to a young woman in front of us, who had half her hair dyed orange and the other half shaven off and was generally dressed as a clown, "How are you, young lady?"
The young woman looked at the IEI and said shortly and angrily, "I'm not a young lady. I'm fully employed." The IEI was shocked and looked at me and whispered "What does one have to do with the other?" I replied, "Clash of world views. She wants to be considered an adult, while you and I would..."
"..like to be her age", she finished, and smiled at me. I was doing my SLE imitation in gray jeans and sneakers and a black shirt with a leather jacket, and the IEI was being very friendly.
Her ILE friend glanced at me and then whispered to the IEI "What a kind, thoughtful, and diplomatic thing for him to say."

I didn't tell her I wasn't anywhere close to being an SEI.

Met an LIE woman recently with my LSE boss. She (the LIE) is a nice enough person I feel, but gives off an unfriendly and demanding vibe at first.

There’s this one guy I’ve been working for who I thought was LIE this entire time, but he superficially resembles an SEI in some ways and has some SEI-ish qualities. He asks me to do things really last minute usually and also things that IMO are a waste of my time and his money. He’s into aesthetics a lot but is not particularly detail-oriented. He’s told me that I remind him of himself when he was younger and more powerful. He asks about my likes and dislikes a lot in a way that I think is Fi seeking and triggers my polr lol. I still think he’s probably LIE, but it’s just interesting.

I worked with a batshit insane LIE girl a few years ago. She would start shit and try to sabotage her coworkers’ work for no reason, and she made lots of eerie comments towards me too. Randomly she’d be normal though.

ESI woman, ~35 yo on the reception desk at the atelier of clothes where I needed to shrink my trousers (not the 1st time during last monthes) and suit's jacket. The height below I'd like, so so shapes, holded not emotionally. Partly due IR influence I perceived her face as nice and pleasant, and in general interesting as a woman, anyway. On my direct eye contact she reacted by ignoring, then with slight shyness and regular "poker face" of ESI in relations. If we'd worked together or were neighbours she'd was warmer. Having more time I'd could to tune and to sway this redundant interpersonal wall.

My LSE boss is the most interesting combination of stiff and fun. Dat Te Si Ne, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Sol

sway this redundant interpersonal wall.

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LOL

I love it when you say “redundant”, Sol. What was it last time, “redundant weight”?

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Originally Posted by sbbds

I love it when you say “redundant”, Sol. What was it last time, “redundant weight”?

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There is much of redundant in the world. :)

Seen today a possible EII in the 2nd time. The one of noticed. Which I said was dressed not good. Friday, 21:30 at the same place. Now she was dressed with a handkerchief like women do while visiting churches. I suppose she was at the mass in the near church.
She seems 25-30 yo. Average face, not the best but intriguing feminine figure. Has nice walking with waving hips. I could to see her house, as it was on my way. As she may visit the masses regularly I'll may see her again, if I'll want. I prefer when in women eyes is seen higher energy, but N-I types have this lesser conscious and to open this need some warming. I have not a single valued relation to church visiting women. I like their conservative moral and family attitudes, but among them more of people with psyche problems which make harder the cooperation with them.

so i went to the show last night with this new work friend. upon meeting her i immediately thought IEE because she reminds me of my IEE friend with her quirkiness and mannerisms and way of self-centeredly but charmingly chatting at people she doesn't know about her life in a really personable way. after last night i half-considered SEE for a minute because she's a doer and unusually aggressive for an IEE but she still doesn't come across as very embodied and i think her aggressiveness is a consequence of being a little unstable (maybe more than a little. i'm going to exercise caution.)

so last night she was running late and called and asked me to get off the bus in a really shady part of town. she lives right by there and regularly walks around at night and seems totally unbothered--in my view she is lacking an appropriate sense of danger (also noting i'm a 6)

(i brought this up to her once - mentioning the crime rate in the neighborhood when she was initially considering moving there weeks ago and asking how she felt about it - her response was that its not like it was "real crime" because the people there are struggling, dealing with homelessness and drug use etc - which struck me as an extremely weird and very characteristically IEE thing to say)

before we leave we have a beer. she spends most of her time talking a bit frenetically about various shows she's going to - obscure local bands - and i learn a lot about venues i've never been to..the other major subject is the people in her life, a few different potential love interests etc. she occasionally mentions that she's "saying yes to life" right now after her divorce so her super-social habits right now might not be characteristic.

so we're in the bus stop shelter together and this guy outside keeps opening and shutting the door just a crack and the noise is bugging her. and to my surprise this sweet and quirky chick just flips. she keeps stomping up to the guy and yelling at him to stop. he's just ignoring it. at one point she's clenching her fists and leaning towards him and shouting, "I'M A HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON!!!" (i keep thinking about that this morning and laughing..) as we got on the bus she apologized to the guy and chummed around with him a little bit.

she does strike me as a little more alert environmentally than my close IEE friend. like she takes forever to smoke but she's like "i know it's cold, i don't mind if you wait inside" whereas with my other friend i'd have to get fed up and tell her i'll wait inside because she would never in a million years consider that kind of thing. also it was good when we got to the show-- usually i'm with my close IEE friend and i have to be sort of towards the back because she's not comfortable pushing through crowds of people but this woman was fine with it and willing to take initiative to jostle through.

but omggg. we get towards the front and these dudes in the crowd tell her we can't pass them. at this point we were like in the 3rd row and i would have been fine with that but she loses her goddamn mind. she's SCREAMING and pointing her finger and just flipping the fuck out lol. she keeps yelling at me saying "those guys are BROS. they're BROS. B. R. O. S!!!" i was trying to ignore the drama and enjoy the show while noticing in my peripheral vision that there was something going on with them. her story later was that some of her drink sloshed out on this guys head accidentally and they accused her of doing it on purpose. but all i saw when i looked over was that she reached up and rubbed the back of the guy's head, which i thought was really weird and i was embarrassed (in retrospect it was probably a conciliatory "sorry i sloshed beer on you" gesture -- which would still be intrusive but better than lying, which is what i thought she did last night). anyway the main instigator dude she dealt with was being really obnoxious in the pit and targeting us even though we weren't in the middle of it (i probably wasn't helping matters by elbowing him out of spite) and he ended up getting kicked out of the club haha - after she threw her fucking drink at him! the whole situation with those dudes is all she talked about for awhile, to anybody around us who would listen lmao.

anyway we stopped for one more drink at a bar afterwards and she calmed down and we went home.

tl;dr i enjoyed the company of this crazy fucking IEE last night.

There’s this (older) ILI woman I work with whose main job is the sort of job I want to be able to do in the future. She’s like “meh anybody can do this kind of work” when she explained it to me. Tfw ILIs.

My LSE boss is in her 60s and is really PC in a cute way. We were having dinner with one of her 80 year old SEI clients who referred to foreign people as “furreigners” and called a high-ranking person from Africa a “black guy” (approximately, since we don’t live in the US), which IMO is still acceptable and definitely normal and non-malicious especially given the SEI woman’s age and background. LSE boss giggles, leans over and whispers to me “Omg she should’ve used ‘African’, not ‘black guy’.”

Just met with my SLI lawyer. He actually uses chatspeak really l33tly even though he’s really old. He’s a really nice guy. I think we have a good connection.

Seems I saw another rare case of ESE with E9. Rather pretty, with nice figure, good dressed girl of <20 yo. In a queue to a cashbox in a stationery shop.
E9 have unique mystery charm. They look restrained and phlegmatic, but you expect they are not so inside and show real them in more intimate situations. This contrast of impressions from them cautches and bewitches.

ILI-N. The role was at maximuṃ - lots of slot-fullness was in the air.

Met a guy last night ... I’m not sure if he was IEI or LII. He sat beside me, moved really slowly and autistically, and fell asleep while my boss was talking. So hot, lowkey wanted the d.

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Originally Posted by sbbds

Met a guy last night ... I’m not sure if he was IEI or LII. He sat beside me, moved really slowly and autistically, and fell asleep while my boss was talking. So hot, lowkey wanted the d.

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:lol:

Possible ESI seller/storekeeper, <30 yo. Meaty body condition due to excercising. Gave the impression of a courtesy and loyal worker.
The man is almost at his place, in case it was paid good.

Possible S-F girl in a queue in a shop, fatty and young. On the back of her hat had a funny decoration as a giant safepin with threaded hearts or alike. Has asked a floor weigher. On the seller's question "which one?". Has answered "anyone". :) Got some cheap one. Seems will follow a diet soon to improve the attractiveness. She looked not bad, but the weight was a problem.

I sat across from a female named Funke this evening at dinner who looked like she stepped off the set of a Star Trek episode. She was intelligent, quietly alert, subdued, polite, and somehow expectant. She ordered the salmon entree and no salad, strawberry lemonade but no wine. English was not her first language. I tried to engage her in conversation, but I could barely hear her replies. She was pretty and not completely comfortable at a table with two LIE-Te's, one SLE-Ti, and one ???, and I wasn't able to get her to feel any more comfortable, despite my trying pretty hard. I think we just could not effortlessly connect somehow.
I think she is SEI-Si. I could definitely see how she could use an ILE-Ne to bring her out of her shell.

I think the cook at the fast food place here is LSE. He's a very industrious "super hero" type :) Always moving and very friendly. I thought of ESE too but it seems less likely.

Was also tutoring someone I initially typed as IEI, but now I think she's LII. She can be expressive but is very studious, and very serious when focusing on work.

EIE-N. Things get easy when you need something via beneficiary.

Saw a possible EII going on a street - young, cute and beautiful. She went with some dude, probably in a pair with one. Some before this I've notice another possible EII, - lesser interesting and also seems in a pair.

The typing skills need significant time to develop, so the chances to approptiately use the Socionics for trying a pair with some girl are limited by the ones you know good, may to see often - taking into account that duals are only 1/16 it's generally not a good variant. Later the age creates two problems - you are lesser interesting for younger ones (while effects of good IR are not clear at 1st); many ones of near age have the stable pairs and also lesser attract you. This harderns the possibility to make the relations with accidental girls.

This problem can be solved when appear objectively good typing methods and typers, - to which ones there is the good basis to trust. Then you'd checked the girls of the seeked types and have chosen the interesting ones for the communication and better understanding, or could to offer the types testing to a girl in the beginning. At now there is much from your destiny and luck to get at near or be attracted to unknown girls with good IR. The usefulness of the typology and of the knowledge about types stays as reduced much.

Was in a military clothes shop. The sellser is classical LSI with mustaches. :) 40-50 yo.
Gave me the impression of a tensed and picky person. Not pleasant to deal with. Some examples of LSI I perceive easier.
Due to this emotional influence I've made a mistake and needed to do additional buy there to compensate it. I've surprised him a little and he'll remember me, I'm sure.

Noticed another EII women with some dude in a pair. 30-40 yo. Not much attractive, but they are interesting, catch the attention. I'm not picky on women look, anyway. She've noticed my interested sight with keeping calm poker face. There was no cold, what ESI demonstrait when in the mode "I'm in relations and need no one else". EII are softer on the surface impressions.

Just had the most surreal uber ride with a driver who seemed LIE who just found out an hour ago that his best friend died. He was upbeat and friendly and talking about it in a sort of detached "in my experience, the best way to deal with death is" kinda way but at one point he cried a little and thanked me for helping him process his feelings and told me not to tip. (Of course i still did)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ashlesha

Just had the most surreal uber ride with a driver who seemed LIE who just found out an hour ago that his best friend died. He was upbeat and friendly and talking about it in a sort of detached "in my experience, the best way to deal with death is" kinda way but at one point he cried a little and thanked me for helping him process his feelings and told me not to tip. (Of course i still did)

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Something I just remembered: the conversation started with him talking about how he had recently watched a ted talk about introverts and he was embarrassed about his intrusive behavior as an extrovert. At one point he said, "I love my introverts," and I was laughing on the inside about the possessive language wrt how people talk about duality and socionics...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ashlesha

at one point he cried a little and thanked me for helping him process his feelings

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Generally, T types, especially base T, do not express feelings to random people. Mb other type. When all is bad we either supress feelings or unnaturally freeze them in some state. Emotions are expressed naturally only among friends or when alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sol

Generally, T types, especially base T, do not express feelings to random people. Mb other type. When all is bad we either supress feelings or unnaturally freeze them in some state. Emotions are expressed naturally only among friends or when alone.

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Generally, yeah

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ashlesha

Generally, yeah

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Besides you were strangers, the other factor is that LIE would not open emotions to LSI. If to assume F type of the man, then with role Te he'd could to be seen as LIE on the 1st look. It could be your dual. You'd could try to offer him to talk again, if he's interesting for you.

Old LII. His ethics was clearly "trained". It shows that LII's have special relation to intuition. Similar to Jung he found it intriguing but also bit confusing while he was talking with N base. He thought that my way of seeing the world seemed bit weird and how I constructed chains of logic from very intangible things was also quite weird.



"What do you mean by <insert an expression here>?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007

"What do you mean by <insert an expression here>?"

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtnoK-kf3uc

:P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WinnieW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtnoK-kf3uc

:P

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Haha so good, Troll Nr 007 I hope you now understand what do we mean when we ask what do you mean XD

My waitress for lunch today was SEE. After observing her for a while and finishing the meal, I asked her if she was married. (We are Activity partners and share the same quadra, so she is less likely to react badly to questions like this. :) )

She said No, she wasn't.

I asked her if she would be interested in knowing what type of person she might get along with best, for marriage?

She said, Absolutely.

I said, "First, let me say that I belong to a cult that believes people have certain characteristics and that there is a "best" romantic match for each person. For example, you are a very moral person, sexually aggressive, extroverted, and are not that good with money or with knowing what the future holds."

She looked at me and laughed, and said, "That's right. Could you tell that by the fact that I'm wearing all the wealth I own as jewelry?" and pointed to the many rings and arm bands she was wearing.

I said, "No, I could tell by your face. Your personality shows up in your face."

"So who should I marry?"

I proceeded to describe an INTp (ILI). She said, "That sounds like my best friend. But I don't feel any sexual attraction for him."

"There are two types that look almost identical to each other. From an external standpoint, they look almost exactly alike. The only difference is that one is sexually compatible with you and the other one isn't. So you're close, but there's a better match out there, if you look."

"Where can I find out more about this stuff? Is there a book? Can I look it up on the web?"

So I wrote down Stratiyevskaya's name, "SEE & ILI", and "Duality", and left her with that.

My lunch companion was looking at me with amazement. IDK if they were shocked at my brazenness, or shocked at discovering that I'm in a cult, or what, so I decided to give them a bit more proof. I called the waitress back and said that there was a person whom she resembled.

The waitress asked, "Who?"

"Elvis", I said.

The waitress laughed out loud and said "You got that exactly right!" and walked off, smiling.

I nudged my companion and said, "What are the odds?"

I remember one SEI girl from another forums. She had a bit naive outlook on life (I can be naive too, but with her it was more about Te PoLR and weak intuition) but she was very fun to chat with. We met IRL once, five years ago on a New Years Eve. I remember when she took a photo of me by surprise and commented that I look spaced out. :lol: Gotta rock that demonstrative Ni.

SLI coworker, we just look at each other and laugh all the times... yesterday he started to openly flirt with me, I would try to ignore him and make it more awkward... and he'd lose the track of his thought and start gasping... it's pretty hilarious. there's so much sexual tension and I don't want to make a move 'cause I am in a superior position and I seriously don't want to deal with a relationship with him... I don't know what to do though, the tension is all there and we can cut it with a knife... people are starting to realize and comment on it too... :oops:

today SLI guy gifted me some alcoholic presents :shifty:

Seems I saw very attractive EII on a street or mb other F-I. Great legs and cute, shy face. Dressed in black. Also she used thick black lines makeup near eyes - lesser expected from EIIs. She's young and wants to attract more of attention. Or mb other type. If I'd was near her age, then mb I'd got more of her and alike girls sympathy. The age is not felt clearly, but you may notice it in mirrors.

I took baby on one of our two "long" walks (usually over two hours in length). Of course she sleeps for 20 minutes of it but still it's nice for her to be out in the fresh air. I noticed a few more LSE in the community. One was standing outside the public library listening to his IEE friend chatter about some person or another and analyzing them. I thought it was cute. Yeah we had a good time.

argued with SLI guy about politics, he asked me my opinion about a specific party twice, first time I was very vague, second time I started explaining him how the world turns... then he said "well most Italians are on our side, that must mean something!"... me "yes, that democracy is not the most suitable form of gvnmt in our days".

In the end we decided to keep each other updated with the facts, and see if the situation changes for the better in the next 5 months, then he wins. If it gets worse, he'll stop going to vote. (his words) lol

For awhile I was thinking that the woman at work who started after me but quickly got promoted above me was eii, probably gender bias, but i've come to see her as lii. And 1w9 (I usually don't notice enneatype). There's a blend of timidity and rigidity in her demeanor that I find a little offputting, like i don't really know where my footing is? But i respect her because she's extremely competent and works her ass off.

Yesterday somebody came up and teasingly asked her if she was avoiding them, and she was like, "no, i've been busy with this report" and the other person was like, "oh, I know, i'm just teasing." But she was like, "this report really has to go out, I wasn't avoiding you," and seemed distressed. Even if the teasing was passive aggressive (I don't think it was, at least not to any important degree) everybody knows she puts in longer hours than anyone, so she has no reason to be defensive. The eie boss jokes about this by way of telling her how lazy she is and expressing dismay at all she doesn't do, but i'm not really sure if she gets that that's a joke either :/ but it's hard to tell.

A male IEI whom I know decided he would be more comfortable as a woman and started transitioning last year. It was interesting to see the reactions of the people around her as she changed. First, her nails, which became long and elegant, then she started dressing ambiguously, then the makeup, and then came the dresses. Some people were really, really uncomfortable with being around her and they refused to talk about her in any context, and others were like, No big deal. (I'm in the No big deal camp.)
She is genetically male, so her voice tends to be a bit rough for a woman, but it's hard to tell for sure, maybe she smokes, and she compensates for this by dressing ultra-elegantly and by being very much at home in who she is. Your first impression of her is "Wow! Put this girl in the front office where she can impress the visitors", but she's actually a researcher. Honestly, she dresses now like a Vogue model. I wish more women had her taste in clothes.

Yesterday she was talking to this grizzled old fart who looks like Willy Nelson from the Red States, and it was quite a contrast. The guy was looking at her with the funniest expression on his face. He was puzzled and uncertain and she was mildly amused. I wish I had had a camera.

I was standing for a few minutes outside a meeting room next to the exit of the building in which I work, mentally preparing myself for a presentation to our customers inside on how we are spending their money and why they should give us even more, when an ESI who works as a secretary for another organization in the building walked up to me.
She was bundled up to go outside, with a new red hat on and a scarf wrapped around her face so only her eyes were visible.
Despite working in the same building for a few years, we’ve spoken only a couple of times. About all I know of her is that she’s nice and is married to a decent-looking guy and they had a kid a couple years ago. The very few times we spoke were mostly me trying to joke with her and her giving me this ice-cold stare and saying nothing in return, so I was surprised when she stopped by the exit doors and asked me if I was working hard. She had this merry look in her eyes and I wondered what was going on.
“I’m pretending to work”, I said.
She looked at me. “I have so many things you could do for me.”
I thought, is she kidding? My imagination immediately went to the least business-like interpretation of her statement.
“Are these things something I want to do or things that you want to do?”
She mumbled something behind her scarf and out the door she went.

I thought, “Aggressor with low Ni.” I’m not even sure she was trying for a double meaning, or was even consciously aware that one existed.

I'm thinking; Four Year Itch.
One year to meet the guy, one year to have a baby, two years to raise the kid to the point where the Village can take care of them, and now she's ready to go again, maybe spin the dial and mix the genes up a bit.
That is, if we were all living in tribes in the year 50,000 B.C. Which we are not, but our bodies don't know that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

I'm thinking; Four Year Itch.

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it's correct when the main factor of the attraction is a passion and other ones are much weaker. as passion is directed on the birth of a child. deeper feeling as love has no limits, the same as friendship attraction. I had longer feelings, for example
passion is egocentric. love is very different, though may include a passion component

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ashlesha

For awhile I was thinking that the woman at work who started after me but quickly got promoted above me was eii, probably gender bias, but i've come to see her as lii. And 1w9 (I usually don't notice enneatype). There's a blend of timidity and rigidity in her demeanor that I find a little offputting, like i don't really know where my footing is? But i respect her because she's extremely competent and works her ass off.

Yesterday somebody came up and teasingly asked her if she was avoiding them, and she was like, "no, i've been busy with this report" and the other person was like, "oh, I know, i'm just teasing." But she was like, "this report really has to go out, I wasn't avoiding you," and seemed distressed. Even if the teasing was passive aggressive (I don't think it was, at least not to any important degree) everybody knows she puts in longer hours than anyone, so she has no reason to be defensive. The eie boss jokes about this by way of telling her how lazy she is and expressing dismay at all she doesn't do, but i'm not really sure if she gets that that's a joke either :/ but it's hard to tell.

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She should grow up. Keep making the joke until she "gets it" lol.

Yesterday I observed my SLI mechanic to jump start a car (the battery was dead and we had no jumper cable) using two pliers like these and holding them both with his bare hands.

http://www.crescenttool.com/MagentoS...RNT_MAIN_3.jpg

After that, he asked for a drink and ate pizza with us while speaking with me and my IEE of all kind of random tech stuff, passing through conspiracy theories to another new business idea that didn't sound crazy. He also revealed to us that car agencies are the worst places to get your car to be fixed as he witnessed so many unbelievable accidents while working on one.

He also forgot to say goodbye to us when he left. lol

I was on a mock jury today to let the lawyers sharpen their cases before presenting them at trial. The woman who recruited me is an SEI, and apparently, she does this for a living. She recruits random people she meets and then asks them to hear a case before the case actually goes to trial.

What I found interesting was the makeup of the twelve jurers.

1. LIE male, older (me), tended to lead the discussion when no one else spoke, and after eight hours of deliberation, was being looked to for opinions.
2. ESI female, 41 yo, involved in health care. She basically related her own experiences to those in the case.
3. LSE female, about mid-40's, didn't say much, seemed a bit nervous and looked to others to speak up first.
4. SEE female, late 30's, also worked in health care, and was easily the smartest person there. I gave her the cookie from my box lunch and wished like hell she were ESI.
5. IEI female, 40's, black, who did not like the IEE. She tended to ramble when talking and would not stick to a logical train of thought.
6. ESI male, overweight, possibly early 40's, didn't talk unless prompted, but was fairly clear when he said something.
7. LII female, Chinese, again didn't talk unless prompted but was smart and demonstrated clear reasoning.
8. ILE black male, fairly talkative, wanted to see more and more evidence before making a final decision.
9. EII female, late 60's early 70's, talked all the time and made little sense, was usually outraged at something she saw as unfair, and tended to wander in her speech. The defendant was LSI, and the EII just did not like her for no reason that was obvious. All the other jurors thought the LSI was both competent and likeable, but a bit cold.
10. EIE male, mid 30's, incredibly ethical and sensible. Made many good arguments regarding personal responsibility and procedures.
11. LII/ILI male, late 20's, spoke only twice to clarify his written opinion.
12. LSE male, late 60's-early 70's, seemed anxious to award almost $1M to the plaintiff. Later reversed his guilty vote in the face of overwhelming opposition. Wore a grey mustache and a baseball cap.


What struck me was the fairly uniform distribution of types, and how well each type conformed to their generally accepted type description.

Was talking to a self-identified ENTP on a dating website and after he brought it up, I made some predictions on his interests / personality based on that. I particularly mentioned enjoying upbeat and intellectually stimulating conversation and he agreed and said: "Give me a discussion about brexit over sex any day of the week" lmfao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrrrmaid

Was talking to a self-identified ENTP on a dating website and after he brought it up, I made some predictions on his interests / personality based on that. I particularly mentioned enjoying upbeat and intellectually stimulating conversation and he agreed and said: "Give me a discussion about brexit over sex any day of the week" lmfao

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I feel bad for Theresa May. She's doing a shitty job but it's a shitty job that no one else wanted to do so it all fell on her shoulders. No one really wanted the brexit bomb to explode in their lap and it passed on to May.

Hope she won't blow up with the rest of the Kingdom ;_;

Everyone mentioning conspiracy theories is a try hard ENTP on dating sites too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Babooshka

I feel bad for Theresa May. She's doing a shitty job but it's a shitty job that no one else wanted to do so it all fell on her shoulders. No one really wanted the brexit bomb to explode in their lap and it passed on to May.

Hope she won't blow up with the rest of the Kingdom ;_;

Everyone mentioning conspiracy theories is a try hard ENTP on dating sites too.

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and you're choosing to move here! :p
Yeah no one could do a good job with it, I think, and better May then any of the hard line brexiteers. Unfortunately for the ENTP I stopped paying attention to the details of it a while ago for the sake of my own emotional and mental stability lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrrrmaid

and you're choosing to move here! :p
Yeah no one could do a good job with it, I think, and better May then any of the hard line brexiteers. Unfortunately for the ENTP I stopped paying attention to the details of it a while ago for the sake of my own emotional and mental stability lol

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I'm already known for bad decisions. What's one more on my resumé?
Jk, I'm willing to stick with the bri'ish invasion through thick and thin. Unless I am to die of starvation there.

I know the feel. I met a NICE friend on reddit but the next day I find out they're a marxist and I rolled up my Romanian sleeves to knock some sense into that idea and--
It wasn't pretty.
Idk, I can handle everything besides communism. I can't be civilized when it comes to communism > :(

Had another yet talk with police patrol. It was cute, polite and talking softly SEI dude. He said that they were in a car and saw how I passed the street on a red light (a note: it was empty small street) so they have decided to stop me to talk. He has recommended to do not pass streets on red light when there is a patrol near. I've replied that did not see them. :) They has checked their database is there a "bad" in my past, found nothing and we said "good bye" to each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Babooshka

I can't be civilized when it comes to communism

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you need to wash the liberal/antihumanistic propaganda out of your head to perceive it more reasonably. the lack of objective knowledge about socialism/communism and emotions from propagandistic bs prevent adequate thinking