I would like to know what mine is.
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I would like to know what mine is.
This should be helpful. At least that's how I determined mine.
I suppose I'll go with harmonizing, since I'm certain that I am connecting and distancing. Also the description near the bottom of the page applies to me better than the others there:Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name
- Strengthening function http://www.wikisocion.net/en/images/9/9a/Symbol_t.gif forms shut-off, self-submerged, up to autistic behavior. This is secondary harmonization in terms of a spiritual-mental plan.
If my subtype is harmonizing, which subtype would be my "subtype dual"? The article states that subtype duality "appears between opposite subtypes", but no subtype seems to be my opposite. I share one dichotomy preference with all other subtypes. I don't understand how to interpret this graph:
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/images/8/80/DCNH.jpg
Does this mean that C is my "subtype dual", since they're opposite of H here?
@Attis: Yes. If you're H (Ni) your dual will be C (Se).
H with certainty.
-There are only 4 subtypes so with time you have compared yourself with many people and your own subtype becomes evident
- you'll get the far most comfortable and intense connection with your subtype "dual". If you are D you get the best compatibility with N etc. So you can definitely use this fact too.
- what is your most natural approach to work? Not what you want it to be but what it really is.
- Learn what the connecting/ignoring dichotomy means. Not just in theory but in real face to face situations.
- Compare your identicals. They can seem very different. Then your own subtype will emerge.
- The Normalizer has probably the least interesting or "cool" description. So people might avoid typing themselves as N. But N is really common. In the general population probably close to 50%.
- the rest is just reading the theory. Many times.
But knowing your subtype makes much more sense when you actually know the whole phenomenon and can observe it very quickly in strangers.
DCNH is fun!
I think there exists hybrids. I'm somewhat creative subtype but I'm not extremely creative subtype. Regarding other ILE's that I have seen I think I tend to be higher end on harmonizing aspects IRL. Maybe it comes off bit like "two faced" type. People call me either energetic or calming and easy to talk to. :confused2: :thinking:
@Tallmo: Is it normal to be a LII-Ti (Rational subtype) and H in DCNH, even though I'm not attracted to Cs?
I only know DCNH so I cant answer that.Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name
I was thinking the same when i saw your picture. But i guess you removed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
My experience is that most people have a very clear dcnh type.Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale
I had the same thought when i started with dcnh. That i might be in between. But after years of observing i think the subtypes are mostly very distinct.
I guess I might be H then just by based how certain :Se: egos treat me. Self submerged mind is what tend to have. Creatives are bit more compatible for my taste.
This one has the descriptions, I found it very useful.
That site cannot be reached.Quote:
Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn
Attachment 11286
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p..._Vera_BorisovaQuote:
Originally Posted by Attis
sorry, fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Attis
Huh... I find any other than D possible for myself but going by my actions and "work ethics", I don't really have things orderly and work on a really inconsistent basis- according to what catches my interest. So likely not Normalizing? Likely Harmonizing or Creative, but I really dislike gender roles etc quite a bit. Tentatively assuming Creative then?
Are you saying that I'm H with certainty, or that you're H with certainty?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
I most naturally and happily fit the creative subtype, but when I feel boxed in, stopped or held back by something or someone, I become more controlling and demanding in my efforts to remove the obstacle which is more like the dominant subtype with the order aspects of the normalizing.
As to how to determine your own, reading the links people gave is a good start. It's been years since I looked into this subtype system more thoroughly so I can't be of any more help than that.
I can see this.Quote:
- Symmetrical attractive relations. Conditionally this is called subtype duality. They appear between opposite subtypes. They bear a smoothing, harmonizing nature. They are difficult to begin at first, but then partners all the more greatly begin to value the advantages of the division of labor that these relations provide them. The harder the conditions for existence, the more durable they are.
- Symmetrical repellent relations. They are called subtype identity. Their bearing is creative. They appear between identical subtypes. Mutual lift is caused at first, but differences increase in the course of time within the dyad and mutual disappointment begins. Verification of the strength (of the relationship), as a rule, is not performed. They are useful for duplicating, redundancy, preparation for change.
- Asymmetric attractive relations. The working name is subtype benefit. Their nature includes pushing, urging, and one-sided activation. D-subtype prevails over C-subtype. C prevails over N-subtype. Normalizing, in turn, prevails over H-subtype. But harmonizer, by paradoxical means, influences the dominant participant. Thus the circle is locked. These relations are the main accelerators of group dynamics.
- Asymmetric repellent relations. For their designation we will use the code term subtype supervision. They bear the nature of rate setting, retention within the framework, one-sided braking. They are directed in the opposite direction in comparison to benefit. They are useful from the point of view of correction, the correction of errors. Dominant inspects harmonizing. Harmonizing inspects normalizing. Normalizing impedes and corrects creative. And creative - dominant. And here occurs the closing of the outline, only in the reverse direction of the main vector.
So in case of benefit there is tendency for ILE to go towards EIE or LSE and in supervision LSI or EII characteristics.
LII goes towards following in case of benefit it is IEI or SLI and in case of supervision it is SLE or IEE.
On second thought my very vague guess is that you maybe are N. But D is also possible. D has strong base function (Ti in LII). But N has strong TiFi awareness. (Or whatever the dcnh function should be called.) On top of that N has strong Role.Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name
D-LII strong Base + FeTe "awareness"
N-LII strong Role + TiFi "awareness"
The bolded part shows why someone could possibly type himself Ti-LII (2-subtypes).
(I dont really know what to call the "dcnh functions". I use awareness for lack of better name. ). But they seem to be disconnected from the model A structure)
DCNH doesn´t really exist, after many years of socionics I suggest you to avoid this theory, it adds a layer of confusion.
Thank you. So, my first guess of being a Normalizing was correct. The real problem is that my preferences towards Rational and Static are not very strong. That's why I've been considering Harmonizing too (which is Initiating and Connecting).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallmo
THIS.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
It's a useless theory, imo.
Types are the same but focus differs hence you should try to get type right and after that do the subtype.
Harmonizing subtypes with strong Ni have some sort of propensity to daydreaming which is shown as running scenarios in head (I'm very much like this). They might have weird grin on their face.
Harmonizing subtypes with strong Si pays attention to surroundings from aesthetical perspective.
Creative subtypes with strong Ne is continually offering different solutions.
Creative subtypes with strong Se are very influential people in their environment.
Dominant subtypes with strong Te are very task orientated and being productive.
Dominant subtypes with strong Fe are very focused on people.
Normalizing subtypes with strong Ti are focused on structures (DarkAngelFireWolf69).
Normalizing subtypes with strong Fi are focused on doing the right thing.
Your subtype :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Attis
@Tallmo as for my own it's either H or C.
If you type yourself H-ILI you can compare with Silvia, queen of Sweden, whom I type H-ILI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Attis
(there might also be something in English if you search her.)
The H has both Ni and Si. But sometimes one is stronger. 8 subtypes split is not always possible because they seem often equally strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by reverie
I'm probably H subtype but I wanna be C. I mostly get along with other Hs and Cs so that makes sense.
More specifically, H-Ni. The "self-submerged, autistic" subtype.
Attachment 11359
Deviation from the set standard. Thats its purpose in the first place; Add grayscale to where there was a black and white gestalt of a reality that has a full color spectrum
Too many combos to spell out.
Id say if you want answers, you should compare your strengths and weaknesses with the stereotype. *4-3-2-1-1-2-3-4, and factor in the first level subtype.
Base. **4.25-2.75-1.75-1.25-.75-2.25-3.25-3.75.
Creative. **3.75-3.25-2.25-.75-1.25-1.75-2.75-4.25
NB: * Refers to dimensionality, **refers to the deviation of competency with those dimensions.
Now, I acsribe to the philosophy that when you use an element, say Ni, you shut off the lens of its inverse, Si in this case. They pick up information or process information inherently antithetical to the other. One grows while the other does not. How you deviate from the base or creative subtype will show you where you accentuate in the DCNH system. Keep in mind that for Ni, Ne will grow as a byproduct.
I.E., having a D subtype will make one Je stronger in deviation, and the other Je weaker. If both Je functions are stronger, you are likely not a D subtype, but rather an N or a C, as accentuation in those strengthens Je as a byproduct of it own growth.
DCNH gets really convoluted and contradictory, but in spirit its just taking basic principles of growth and extrapolating them to account for how people dont fit neatly into the basic Socionics model. The goal, to create a more flexible model that reflects reality a little bit better. 1 in 16 becomes, 1 in 32 with a subtype, and 1 in 128 with DCNH. But its still not going to work perfectly for reality until its 1 in 7 billion. So stick with the basic principles, and color outside the lines until the drawing makes sense.
@Pookie
Can you tell me if I'm doing it right?
I am a LII-Ti and I'm undecided between N and H subtype.
In terms of Dimensionality, my Ti would be 4.25D and my Fi 1.75D, so the difference between my Ji1 (Ti) and my Ji2 (Fi) is 2.50D.
The difference between my Pi1 (Ni, 3.75D) and my Pi2 (Si, 1.75D) is instead 2D.
Since there is more discrepancy between Introverted Rational IEs, my subtype should be N.
Is this what you mean?
No. Total difference is irrelevant. Difference from what your supposed to have, and reality is the marker. As an LII those fit LII-Ti. DCNH is an accentuation beyond that. You'd need to reflect on yourself and see how you differentiate from LII-Ti.Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name
Do you neglect you're HA(Si) and over consider of your Demonstrative Ni? Vice versa?
Is your Role usage and ability less than your LII-Ti peers?
I feel like I use more Role (Fi) and less HA (Si) compared to the average. Does this make me Harmonizing subtype?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
I'm D in DCNH. Te / Se / Ti ones fit me from your table. For behaviour: lingering (persistent), then I can easily be in excitable mode too and sometimes formal-pedantic. Group roles engine, coordinator, can be contactor too.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exception
Does this table works for all types? If I'm SLI Te I'm Dominant subtype? I thought I was creative because Te is the creative function.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exception
It may be useful to think in terms of accentuated temperament. D = EJ, C = EP, N = IJ, and H = IP. So, you have your base type and temperament, but you'll be a bit more like one of the other temperaments than usual for your type (unless you happen to be the DCNH type that fits your base temperament.) There's more to it than that, but it may give a sort of simplified picture to start from.
(As I refresh my memory on this, it becomes very clear again that I'm most certainly creative subtype. "Creative subtype, one way or another, finds himself in the sphere of ideas and creativity, and this doesn't have to be something artistic – it may well be scientific or a hobby; generally, a creative element is introduced into any pursuit, otherwise the Creative subtype feels uninterested." This is me. Along with the rest of the description, but very aptly summed up in that sentence.)
Using more Fi and Ti would make you Normalizing subtype - since those are the IJ elements, and also fits with what you said in the orderliness thread as N is the most orderly subtype.Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name
I still don't get it.
I don't think at any rate that I share Ej temperament features… and the description I posted says that the Creative subtype is the one who shares more mirror traits, in my case, my mirror is ESTj… (so its like a contradiction since D=Ej, but C= Mirror, and my mirror is Ej)
Personally I feel identified with both, D and C. I think that I can resemble ESTj in an intellectual/mental degree, but I've always been too chaotic or messy for relating to j traits. According other tests, my subtype is 1Te (my creative function), so it makes me a Creative subtype according description. I think that I feel more identified internally with C, but if I look at certain things in my life I can definitely see D. Plus I relate a lot to type descriptions (as D description says) and the fact that I always score my type can be related to that too, guess.
I've heard somewhere that one can change subtype during the life, so maybe its related to that, I don't know.
I don't agree with that, though I acknowledge that opinions are just that. Increased usage of one Ji leads to less usage of the other. Hence why a base subtype has weaker role than a creative subtype.Quote:
Originally Posted by squark
But also, the two Ji(or Pi, Pe, Je) attitudes have contradictory philosophies(ex. Fe is about inferring and discerning, whereas Te sticks to the facts. Both devalue the others importance). Using both enough that your comparitively stronger than your same type peers would, Imo, lessen the Normalizing attitude altogether, as they muddy each other's waters.
As an H-IEI, I have exceptionally weak Si, and better than Average Fi and Ti. Because those two conflict often in choices of action, I default to another spectrum altogether and rely even heavier on my Ni.
I'm just reporting what the article itself said. I think it's more like a layer on top of type rather than working within Model A - as clearly you're right about one Ji lessening the other according to model A and standard socionics theory, and this contradicts that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
Edit: Put it this way, I think it's more behavioral than cognitive. Socionics theory is cognitive and the 2-subtype theory is as well, but DCNH seems to focus more social interactions (who plays what role in a group) and on behavioral traits than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngelFireWolf69
I've observed the DCNH subtypes for many years. I'd say its primarily about "energized" functions. Behavior is secondary. It follows from it. And yes, it is a layer on top of model A. Some kind of emergent phenomenon. So DCNH is not a classification based on behaviour. It's a "psychic"/consciousness phenomenon, and actually quite easy to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by squark