Here

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Originally Posted by Slade

Yeah, I was talking about you and niffer. It should have followed from my previous statements, this is the kind of stuff I look at and wonder why you think you are good at Ti. I don't see a problem with LSI. As far as your examples go, ironically, thats the first example of Ti you have given me. Can you explain how it isn't? I'm also curious why you deflect conversational tangents so much. I did ask for examples of your Ti. I think you might think Ti is something other than what it is. I've never had to ask a supposed Ti ego to explain so much lol.

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As for that "kind of stuff", as I said to squark, well, clear, unambiguous sentences are a good thing for me. I think a few people do know that about me, that in written communication I do prefer unambiguously worded stuff. I could've thought of how you must be on her side to eliminate ambiguity quickly yah but I wasn't thinking of that at that moment when reading it. :shrug


As for why this isn't consistent Ti in Ego: "You can categorize without judging. It's done all the time, when you sort bolts, or arrange your closet, go to the library, find a parking place. Things have categories, places in which they go."

Ti is a Rational IE so yep you must make judgments about the logical relationships between things in order to categorize.

I've heard that same view on categorizing and Ti from a self-typed SLI girl before, tho'. It's not really me who thinks Ti as defined in the theory is something other than what it is...


What conversational tangents are you talking about? In general I don't really care for tangents distracting from the direction I am set on as a Rational type.


As for the example, you got what you asked for originally, about how "she regularly does not want to continue discussions that's full of the Ti information element (from me and from niffer too)". You were not asking for an example of my Ti specifically. Just go and read some of my longer posts for that. :shrug

Yall are the ones flipping out, not me lol.

Mods would be disciplining you, not me lol.

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Originally Posted by Mr inappropriate

Not very good at flirting, it seems :frustrated:

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Why did you come into this thread just to make that comment anyway, come to think of it. You are creepy.

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Originally Posted by Slade

This is partially why this is so fascinating, she literally rejects anything that doesn't conform to her ideas of reality.

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That's basically the most important purpose of the rational parts of the human brain: filtering an overwhelming mass of sensory input into highly-abstract, manageable concepts.

tl;dr: So do you, but you don't have the decency to be honest about it. You troll, you. :naughty:

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

(...)

Harassment is subjective. It either passes reasonable person standard or it doesn't. In this case, it doesn't.

(...)

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Contradiction - you cannot both claim something to be solely subjective, and at the same time strictly subject to an externally-set standard. There is no Universal Reasonable Person.

Re: your previous comment about Ask vs Guess being Asking vs Declaring - no, you are vastly over-applying and misapplying Socionics concepts.

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Originally Posted by Myst

As for that "kind of stuff", as I said to squark, well, clear, unambiguous sentences are a good thing for me. I think a few people do know that about me, that in written communication I do prefer unambiguously worded stuff. I could've thought of how you must be on her side to eliminate ambiguity quickly yah but I wasn't thinking of that at that moment when reading it. :shrug


As for why this isn't consistent Ti in Ego: "You can categorize without judging. It's done all the time, when you sort bolts, or arrange your closet, go to the library, find a parking place. Things have categories, places in which they go."

Ti is a Rational IE so yep you must make judgments about the logical relationships between things in order to categorize.

I've heard that same view on categorizing and Ti from a self-typed SLI girl before, tho'. It's not really me who thinks Ti is something other than what it is...


What conversational tangents are you talking about? In general I don't really care for tangents distracting from the direction I am set on as a Rational type.


As for the example, you got what you asked for originally, about how "she regularly does not want to continue discussions that's full of the Ti information element (from me and from niffer too)". You were not asking for an example of my Ti specifically. Just go and read some of my longer posts for that. :shrug

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Your description about communication is ESI, as well. No Ne/Fi. Can hear directly, but not the big picture.

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Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk

Contradiction - you cannot both claim something to be solely subjective, and at the same time strictly subject to an externally-set standard. There is no Universal Reasonable Person.

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Wrong.

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Re: your previous comment about Ask vs Guess being Asking vs Declaring - no, you are vastly over-applying and misapplying Socionics concepts.

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Wrong again.

You overestimate your slap-happiness, my friend :P

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Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk

Contradiction - you cannot both claim something to be solely subjective, and at the same time strictly subject to an externally-set standard. There is no Universal Reasonable Person.

Re: your previous comment about Ask vs Guess being Asking vs Declaring - no, you are vastly over-applying and misapplying Socionics concepts.

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Everything he says in threads that are not of his own creation are utterly meaningless and just meant for trolling. I wouldn't try to apply a crumb of sense or logic to anything he says or does.

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Originally Posted by squark

@Myst. you can stop trying to cover up. It doesn't matter what people think about your ability to understand things or lack thereof. Notice how instead of actually using logic, you just keep talking about how "logical" you are. This grates on me, but I was serious when I said I'd try to be more patient with you, and I will. And I can see that any question regarding your comprehension is a sore spot. So I'll leave it be.

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I'm sorry but it was hardly about "covering up". Doesn't sound like you got what I was explaining in detail, it's as if you read only a few words of it. So you really did not have genuine interest in trying to understand what I say. That grates on me too bc I put my time into explaining for you, but I don't care.

No, I don't care what you think about my ability to understand things, I just thought I can make you see what you were missing about understanding what I meant. But okay, not possible.

Cool about being more patient, especially because it's hardly my fault only if we are not on the same page.

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Originally Posted by niffer

Lol, at this coming from an LII (you) and EII (Jeremy), two reality-free Se polrs. And two pieces of shit.

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Isn't @Slade typing as IEE?

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Originally Posted by Slade

This is partially why this is so fascinating, she literally rejects anything that doesn't conform to her ideas of reality.

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Enough trolling.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

Your description about communication is ESI, as well. No Ne/Fi. Can hear directly, but not the big picture.

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I would not mind being ESI instead of LSI. LIEs are pretty cool...

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Originally Posted by niffer

Everything he says in threads that are not of his own creation are utterly meaningless and just meant for trolling. I wouldn't try to apply a crumb of sense or logic to anything he says or does.

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Wrong. :P

Perfect sense. You just can't follow it lol. Must be the poop you keep talking about on the brain.

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Originally Posted by Myst

I would not mind being ESI instead of LSI. LIEs are pretty cool...

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I already proved it. I'd rather not break it down point for point again. Then it's just redundant.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

I already proved it. I'd rather not break it down point for point again. Then it's just redundant.

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You think I care about your thoughts - best joke of the week :)

Ok, don't take my olive branch then. I'll still try to be patient.

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Originally Posted by Myst

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As for why this isn't consistent Ti in Ego: "You can categorize without judging. It's done all the time, when you sort bolts, or arrange your closet, go to the library, find a parking place. Things have categories, places in which they go."

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Ti is a Rational IE so yep you must make judgments about the logical relationships between things in order to categorize. I've heard that same view on categorizing and Ti from a self-typed SLI girl before, tho'. It's not really me who thinks Ti as defined in the theory is something other than what it is...

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You can categorize things without making a value judgment (good/bad/better/worse etc). This directly relates to the idea presented in the first post of the thread you pulled the quote from, and why I added it to the thread. It's clear from the context of the post itself what specifically is meant by judgement, and that it refers to value judgments. This also isn't a reference to Ti or using Ti, it's a reference to socionics categorization itself, also clear by context.

I did however make a reference to the use of Ti later in that post. It's when I said, "if you think in connected rows, grabbing information and sorting it, condensing it, and arranging it."

Here's a link to the whole post in case anyone wants to search for other IEs in it or to read it in context: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...63#post1194863

@squark @Myst

Far as I can tell, you both extended some manner of olive branch to the other and promptly poked each other in the nose by accident. Let it go. No one is going to come out of this being right.

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Originally Posted by Myst

You think I care about your thoughts - best joke of the week :)

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Oh, but they aren't my thoughts, now are they?

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Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk

@squark @Myst

Far as I can tell, you both extended some manner of olive branch to the other and promptly poked each other in the nose by accident. Let it go. No one is going to come out of this being right.

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I will. :hyper::agent::hello::eek::hug::hide:

Hey Squark. In all seriousness, no offense, I don't think you're LSI. Due to ISTJ being so common in MBTI, I think it gives people some false impressions as far as LSI's go. LSI's have a pretty noticeable pattern and a pretty noticeable effect on society, especially ones who are moderate to deep in LSI land. In all fairness, though, in all my time on all these personality forums and such, I've only ever even seen like a couple, 3 tops, LSI's, and one was a mod. Being part of the "group" Quadra, and also being the Normalizing and Balancing type of said Quadra, you can tell if there is an LSI even present in a group atmosphere based upon the dynamics of the group. Not all types are Beta types, but all types do spend time in Beta group land, and its pretty much LSI that maintains such.

Again, no disrespect, and I understand and acknowledge your feelings surrounding this thread.

If you don't mind me asking, as a side note, what type would you consider family practice doctors and nurses? You know, the typical ones with that monotone voice and unwaveringness as they look you over?

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

Hey Squark. In all seriousness, no offense, I don't think you're LSI. Due to ISTJ being so common in MBTI, I think it gives people some false impressions as far as LSI's go. LSI's have a pretty noticeable pattern and a pretty noticeable effect on society, especially ones who are moderate to deep in LSI land. In all fairness, though, in all my time on all these personality forums and such, I've only ever even seen like a couple, 3 tops, LSI's, and one was a mod. Being part of the "group" Quadra, and also being the Normalizing and Balancing type of said Quadra, you can tell if there is an LSI even present in a group atmosphere based upon the dynamics of the group. Not all types are Beta types, but all types do spend time in Beta group land, and its pretty much LSI that maintains such.

Again, no disrespect, and I understand and acknowledge your feelings surrounding this thread.

If you don't mind me asking, as a side note, what type would you consider family practice doctors and nurses? You know, the typical ones with that monotone voice and unwaveringness as they look you over?

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No offense taken. I have no issues with people typing me whatever. I was mostly tired of all the side comments derailing other threads.

As for the doctor question, hm, first instinct would be to say LSE.

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Originally Posted by squark

No offense taken. I have no issues with people typing me whatever. I was primarily getting them out of the other threads so I could have some actual socionics discussions with other people without all the little side comments and stuff.

As for the doctor question, hm, first instinct would be to say LSE.

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Consider this...

When you're with those people, are not their emotions perfectly stable? Their speaking? The whole time? Think about it. Always steady emotions. That is a staple of such, is it not? Knowing how to completely maintain their emotions, so that they may be constructive with their work... That's Inert, 4D Fe. EIE. "Hamlet is the most educated TIM in the Socion." - DarkAngelFireWolf69.

Yet DarkAngelFireWolf69 also writes of them "Often aggravates the situation and welcomes the emotional tension that comes with this. People in his proximity may find it difficult to dealing with his type of emotional pressuring. The EIE cannot find peace and serenity himself; he or she overflows with negative emotions, which can lead to emotional and mental breakdowns." which is far less flattering.

Descriptions aside, which at best paint a sort of picture of a type, I think people have greater control over their creative than their lead - which seems to be always on. EIEs can certainly be professional, and usually are, but completely detached in the way you're describing seems unlikely.

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Originally Posted by squark

Ok, don't take my olive branch then. I'll still try to be patient.

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I did and do disagree on what you read into my intent for that post or about other traits of me, but I do appreciate it if you take into account my request about only bringing up issues in PM if your applying more patience includes that. And in general, yes, patience is always appreciated.

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You can categorize things without making a value judgment (good/bad/better/worse etc). This directly relates to the idea presented in the first post of the thread you pulled the quote from, and why I added it to the thread. It's clear from the context of the post itself what specifically is meant by judgement, and that it refers to value judgments. This also isn't a reference to Ti or using Ti, it's a reference to socionics categorization itself, also clear by context.

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The way you put it I don't agree. You put it as "You can categorize without judging. It's done all the time, when you sort bolts, or arrange your closet, go to the library, find a parking place. Things have categories, places in which they go."

To determine what place you put a thing, you do have to make judgments, just not Ethical judgments. Sure I did see that you mentioned Ethical judgments too later in the post.

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I did however make a reference to the use of Ti later in that post. It's when I said, "if you think in connected rows, grabbing information and sorting it, condensing it, and arranging it."

Here's a link to the whole post in case anyone wants to search for other IEs in it or to read it in context: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...63#post1194863

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This is interesting because I read your post sometime in the afternoon (night here now) and I made the guess that you were referring to what you see as Ti for yourself, with the "connected rows" thing. So that sounds like I have actually formed some idea of how your mind works. Why are these seen as "rows" for you?

That simply goes back to inert vs contact.

What is the fire?

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Originally Posted by Myst

I did and do disagree on what you read into my intent for that post or about other traits of me, but I do appreciate it if you take into account my request about only bringing up issues in PM if your applying more patience includes that. And in general, yes, patience is always appreciated.

The way you put it I don't agree. You put it as "You can categorize without judging. It's done all the time, when you sort bolts, or arrange your closet, go to the library, find a parking place. Things have categories, places in which they go."

To determine what place you put a thing, you do have to make judgments, just not Ethical judgments. Sure I did see that you mentioned Ethical judgments too later in the post.

This is interesting because I read your post sometime in the afternoon (night here now) and I made the guess that you were referring to what you see as Ti for yourself, with the "connected rows" thing. So that sounds like I have actually formed some idea of how your mind works. Why are these seen as "rows" for you?

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#wedontcare

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Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk

@squark @Myst

Far as I can tell, you both extended some manner of olive branch to the other and promptly poked each other in the nose by accident. Let it go. No one is going to come out of this being right.

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Heh well for some reason that's how Quasi-Identical relations always work for me with SLI girls (I'm referring to self-typed SLIs/MBTI ISTPs here, I've talked to a few on forums etc). Happens no matter how good the intentions are on the two sides. Allowing less involvement (in the emotional sense) is the only solution to that.

As I said I'm fine if she respects my request, and I'll also engage with her less for sure if she lets me know at the point that she had enough of some argument.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

Hey Squark. In all seriousness, no offense, I don't think you're LSI. Due to ISTJ being so common in MBTI, I think it gives people some false impressions as far as LSI's go. LSI's have a pretty noticeable pattern and a pretty noticeable effect on society, especially ones who are moderate to deep in LSI land.

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MBTI has SJ bias. But actually agreed on the LSI thing - the Ti/Fe Rationality works like that with Se valuing: the collectivist approach with materializing things tangibly and with ready involvement to influence things regardless of internal (Si) states.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

#wedontcare

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Shut up troll.

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Originally Posted by Myst

Shut up troll.

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You have brothers or something?

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Originally Posted by Myst

The way you put it I don't agree. You put it as "You can categorize without judging. It's done all the time, when you sort bolts, or arrange your closet, go to the library, find a parking place. Things have categories, places in which they go."

To determine what place you put a thing, you do have to make judgments, just not Ethical judgments. Sure I did see that you mentioned Ethical judgments too later in the post.

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It's all in the context. That should clear up exactly what was meant by that sentence if there's any confusion.

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Originally Posted by Myst

This is interesting because I read your post sometime in the afternoon (night here now) and I made the guess that you were referring to what you see as Ti for yourself, with the "connected rows" thing. So that sounds like I have actually formed some idea of how your mind works. Why are these seen as "rows" for you?

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You'll have to ask my former self that. I wrote that in 2010 and don't know exactly what I was trying to communicate there as I don't technically see information as rows. I was possibly thinking about a library, and seeing rows of books on the shelves, and using the image to describe pulling information from various books and compiling it. Or I may have been thinking about a spreadsheet, and seeing rows of data, and how the data could be connected and sorted and manipulated. Mostly though I probably thought that something about the image captured a kind of essence of what Ti was. Sorting, condensing, and arranging are the key words in that sentence though. Those are the words that describe using Ti. So those are the important words in the sentence.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

That simply goes back to inert vs contact.

What is the fire?

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A few things. When I chose it, however long ago that was, it was representing a fresh start, burning away everything before it, and also myself - the anger, drive, and heat in me, that I contained and used, or could unleash to destroy. And I just like fire, and it still represents a part of me, so I keep it.

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Originally Posted by squark

A few things. When I chose it, however long ago that was, it was representing a fresh start, burning away everything before it, and also myself - the anger, drive, and heat in me, that I contained and used, or could unleash to destroy. And I just like fire, and it still represents a part of me, so I keep it.

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And the thread? The thread is fire too. But, its not for you.

You have your Base and Role reversed.

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Originally Posted by squark

It's all in the context. That should clear up exactly what was meant by that sentence if there's any confusion.

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We'll just disagree on this one then.

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You'll have to ask my former self that. I wrote that in 2010 and don't know exactly what I was trying to communicate there as I don't technically see information as rows. I was possibly thinking about a library, and seeing rows of books on the shelves, and using the image to describe pulling information from various books and compiling it. Or I may have been thinking about a spreadsheet, and seeing rows of data, and how the data could be connected and sorted and manipulated. Mostly though I probably thought that something about the image captured a kind of essence of what Ti was. Sorting, condensing, and arranging are the key words in that sentence though. Those are the words that describe using Ti. So those are the important words in the sentence.

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Yeah, I interpreted "rows" in an abstract sense. The way I imagine it for you is that you readily pick up the data and throw it around for the situation you need it for by doing the sorting, condensing and arranging. Then you can throw it around in a different way when another kind of problem comes up. This is the impression I got anyway, feel free to correct or add to this.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

And the thread? The thread is fire too. But, its not for you.

You have your Base and Role reversed.

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You see her as ESI too, like you see me as an ESI? Lol

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Originally Posted by Myst

You see her as ESI too, like you see me as an ESI? Lol

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Newp. Try again.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

Newp. Try again.

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You'll have to speak in clear terms or I'm not interested. Also I can't be bothered with reading back all the other posts of yours to try and guess at your random Ne crap.

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Originally Posted by Myst

We'll just disagree on this one then.

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Yes, let's disagree about what I meant by something I wrote. . .

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Originally Posted by Myst

Yeah, I interpreted "rows" in an abstract sense. The way I imagine it for you is that you readily pick up the data and throw it around for the situation you need it for by doing the sorting, condensing and arranging. Then you can throw it around in a different way when another kind of problem comes up. This is the impression I got anyway, feel free to correct or add to this.

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In practice, everything just falls into place. I wouldn't say I throw data around. It works automatically as a passive process. A friend told me that I was a "detangler" that I detangle things, as in make sense of things. And as an active process, that is what I do - I translate gooped up messes of stuff into something that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Myst

You'll have to speak in clear terms or I'm not interested. Also I can't be bothered with reading back all the other posts of yours to try and guess at your random Ne crap.

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Only one type has Ti+ as Role and Fi+ as base...

It was literally a single option.

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Originally Posted by Myst

You'll have to speak in clear terms or I'm not interested. Also I can't be bothered with reading back all the other posts of yours to try and guess at your random Ne crap.

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He thinks I'm EII.

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Originally Posted by squark

He thinks I'm EII.

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Well don't pick on her lol

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Originally Posted by squark

Yes, let's disagree about what I meant by something I wrote. . .

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Disagree only about what a judgment can be and cannot be. Not disagreeing about what you meant.

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In practice, everything just falls into place. I wouldn't say I throw data around. It works automatically as a passive process. A friend told me that I was a "detangler" that I detangle things, as in make sense of things. And as an active process, that is what I do - I translate gooped up messes of stuff into something that makes sense.

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I see. What kinds of messes of stuff, if you got specific examples?

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Originally Posted by squark

He thinks I'm EII.

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Ah, ok. Heh well I don't agree with him on that for sure. You are definitely S>N anyway.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy8419

Only one type has Ti+ as Role and Fi+ as base...

It was literally a single option.

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As I said I wasn't gonna read back all your earlier posts to see more context like this about +- version of functions. Also EII has more changed than just Base/Role compared to LSI...

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Originally Posted by Myst

Ah, ok. Heh well I don't agree with him on that for sure. You are definitely S>N anyway.

As I said I wasn't gonna read back all your earlier posts to see more context like this about +- version of functions. Also EII has more changed than just Base/Role compared to LSI...

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There was nothing to read... LSI IS Ti+ base. EII is literally the only type that can have Ti+ role...